Thetownend.com

If there is a thread already move this to it.

So how in the light of the lower leagues decision to null and void the 2019-2020 season and the potential for legal action, do you think the four professional leagues and the two semi professional leagues will formulate or sort out this conundrum?

Also it got me thinking of how our premier league groundsman and his staff are going to prepare the pitch for when it does kick off again?

Yes, there will be some form of resolution.

The problem is there are more clubs who would either benefit from a void season or make no difference either way than those - like us - who could actually achieve something.

I can just about see the logic of formulating a way of determining auto promotion, but no way can I see how to sort out the play offs without actually playing the games.

Obviously without relegation and promotion throughout all 4 leagues there is no way it can be done piecemeal.

I feel, and dread, it’s easier to void the season.

On the surface yesterdays press release was pointless as it was saying stuff we already knew.

However, I wouldn't be surprised if it's intention was to lay the foundations for the ending of the season. If the 92 had to go to a vote I imagine it would go in the favour of voiding. Which would be a massive moment in the history of a lot of clubs including Swindon.

I have no idea.

Hope that helps.

Just base it on points per game. To void the season this far gone would be ridiculous.

Just take the position when it ceased. I'm happy with 2nd

You could say that football has gone to you.

If it was based on points per game then we would be crowned as champions, I am happy with that.

If the season was declared void, it would be a disappointment. That said there's a lot more going on at the moment.

I may be biased, but I do think PPG would be the fairest outcome. I think I'd say that even if we were in the relegation zone (although I'd be happy if they voided it if that were the case).

If it is done by PPG, then most of those relegated/promoted probably would have been if the season was played out in full.

Indeed.

Although there is always going to be many unhappy fans/clubs no matter what happens, unless the season is actually finished in normal circumstances, however unlikely that scenario may be currently.

I am firmly in the PPG camp for the obvious reasons already mentioned. I just don't think finishing the season in August/September/October/November/whenever is practical.

Interesting quotes from Doyle who seems to be relatively happy to walk away for British football as soon as possible (which, of course, doesn't mean right now).

https://www.swindonadvertiser.co.uk/sport/18338905.swindon-town-striker-eoin-doyle-keen-move-back-dublin-soon-possible-order-help-childcare-business-thrive/

I only put this in because this reads like players are beginning to look beyond the 'this season must be finished rhetoric.

I think the season is finished.

no excuse for voiding it though. I'd want my season ticket money back* from the fa/EFl and given as a top team bonus (PPG) to STFC to compensate on the investment gamble we took to get promoted.

* or the playing budget

PPG seems the obvious solution with the highest placed team in the playoffs taking the final promotion slot.

I can see a team like WHU making a legal challenge however.  No feel for whether they would have a strong case in law.

Voiding seems wrong but easier.

Apart from Swindon, the team I would feel really sorry for would be Barrow.  Voted out of the league rather unfairly (they finished third from bottom and were replaced by Hereford who didn't even win their league), they have struggled for 48 years and are now having far and away their best season since 1972, well clear at the top of the National League.

I would feel so sorry for Bournemouth, the end of the Premiership dream.

Good one PV  :clap:

:D

PPG, current standings or maybe a football version of the DWL calculations? Thing is the first two would satisfy 90% of all clubs I suspect with only those relegated or dragged into a relegation position being the disgruntled or injured parties. The playoff contenders may kick off too come to think of it so maybe less than 90%. Ah fuck it i’m off to the pop up pub for a beer.

with the world cup in Qatar during the winter months this the perfect way to align the seasons ready for it. finish this season.  start the next one in winter and then re- align after the world cup.

the only fair way. lets be honest, clubs are without money now, these should be given loans by the leagues based on average income for home games, when the season resumes every ground will be packed to the rafters and clubs will actually benefit even more. everyone will be desperate to get there football fix and support the clubs. loans can then be repaid and everyone is happy. non league should never have been scrapped.

There is pressure to end the league sooner rather than later so that clubs can sell season tickets for next season (we are unusually early) as a way of relieving financial pressure. Apparently this would be preferable to (God Forbid) the Premier League dipping into it's £1bn+ reserves to help out lower league sides. Football family, my arse

Well, they are 4 points clear.

Please do not void the season. If they did, would take it be like an abandoned game? Doyle's goals wouldn't count? What happened in 1939/40 season?

The Germany v Poland game was a bit one-sided.

Let’s be fair and honest, it is going to be down to money. Minimising the impact and maximising the potential. However that turns out.

So, just how many players would we have under contract after June?

Fucking sure I wouldn't !!!!!!.    :D :D

I wouldn't be !!!!,     knocked off the top  by a one goal difference on the last day, first time we've been off the top since November, how would my  £10 ew bet at 20/1 be sorted,    £270 if we finish top, £70 if we're second, quite a difference,   not sure how I stand on this one, especially if the season is voided,  I know I'm not the only one sweating on the outcome of this fiasco. Not sure if the bookies have a criteria on this one.

If the season is voided you’ll get your stake money back.

Fucking generous of them !!!!!!!!!. :toughguy: :toughguy: :toughguy:

I suspect they may scrap play offs, but hopefully that wouldn't affect us!

What isn't so well known is that the League (allegedly) actually broke their rules then. They and Hereford got the same  number of votes at the first count - the rules stated that the non league club had to get MORE votes to get in, so that should have been that with Barrow staying up. Instead there was a second ballot and Hereford, of course, won. All this allegedly of course

If the season can't be completed at some point my suggestion;

PPG.

Those teams in Promotion POs play their matches BCD and also teams in Relegation positions play BCD Relegation POs too.

Winners from both sets then play each other (Prem R PO winner v Champ P PO winner, Champ R PO winner v L1 PO winner...and so on.) to determine the last auto and relegation slots. That way it gives a chance for any of those teams (who may potentially protest about falling into the relegation/PO spots due to PPG alone), to play for their place to remain or go up.

Where three teams go down the team in the highest position gets a bye and the bottom two play each other first.

It's not perfect and those who miss out on a PO spot via PPG would be the only ones making a fuss. It would be more damage limiting as only one team from each promoting division; so three clubs over Champ, L1 & L2 (or Bristol City, Sunderland (sweet justice), & Port Vale (as it stands, not sure what positions PPG would produce)).

Much better than all current automatic promotion placed clubs missing out by voiding as that would give us 7 clubs plus denying Liverpool as Champions of their division and teams in current PO places protesting too. So voiding has a much bigger knock on and mess. Much easier to say compensate just three teams over the divisions, missing out on POs via PPG (if they make a claim); call it a form of "solidarity" payment.

Would the EFL (mostly) & EPL rather have three potential claims or 32 claims (7 auto, Liverpool, all PO spots and all relegation spots) to deal with? All 32 of those would have a claim of being denied winning a title and going/staying up.

As the weeks go on it's starting to seem less and less important.

not to me it isn't, not yet. I need something to look forward to after its over.

obviously I don't mean it's more important than saving lives. The emergency services cannot be diverted for football!

having just come off tablets for extreme health anxiety I hope can see I need to keep the two things separate and think more about one then the other

This.

For me, STFC is just as important as ever if not more so. The fact is that really bad things have always been happening in the World but it has never stopped me caring about football in general / STFC in particular. What is happening now is obviously a particularly bad thing which is impacting on every one of us and is highly visible, unlike many of the other truly terrible things that happen which the media don't make us aware of.

I think that's a good way of putting it. STFC is woven into the fabric of my regular, every day life, my psyche and soul (is that a bit OTT? No...I don't think it is) which I am missing more than I could have ever imagined. That's not going to diminish, even with the enormity of the situation we find ourselves in.

I know what you mean.  The club will be back next season, and we'll all be there...regardless of the division we're playing in.  Promotion figured massively in my thoughts until a few weeks ago, and I still want it.  But it's a lot further down the wish list than it was.

Yeah I’m pretty much in this camp as well.

Yep, absolutely.

I will be glad to get back to 'normal' and get the opportunity to watch some football again. If ultimately this is div 4 again then it will be a disappointment but there we are.  It occurs to me there is more to life than whether one football season has been disrupted.

Think Klopp put it quite well: "Football is the most important of the not important things" (or words to that effect, quoting from memory, can't be arsed to look it up)

I hope we get to win the league as I backed us at 20/1

Change the fucking record, nobody has said that football is more important than life but you seem to be constantly insinuating they have.

Of course life and the current climate is way more important but for so many fans football is a way to avoid the stresses of life, for many it seems the only way to avoid what is going on.

Are you Reg? changing the direction of threads to suit your own end purposes?

Modest with it.

Oh and a judge, sorry your honour.

I am flattered by the the fact that you have taken the time to consider, analyse and comment on my previous posts.

I want promotion.
I would love the L2 title.
I fear the voiding of the season and how that'll impart STFC in the future.

I'm not really missing the day-to-day of the football season but because everything remains up-in-the-air it doesn't feel like the dull parts of May and June when there's no football and no credible transfer rumours.

The more I think about it, the more I think I'm mentally preparing for the worst case scenario of voiding the season (nobody will convince that it's off the table).

They can't expunge the memories though... can they?

Mind you, when things start re-adjusting towards normality, I wouldn't mind seeing a 2021 mini-season that goes regional in the EFL.

Alas, the policing costs probably make it unrealistic but sign me up to something involving this... even if we finish bottom because we don't do derbies (and localish games)

EFL REGIONAL (South & South West)

1. Swindon Town
2. Oxford United
3. Reading
4. Bristol City
5. Bristol Rovers
6. Cheltenham Town
7. Forest Green Rovers
8. Newport County
9. Plymouth Argyle
10. Exeter City
11. Swansea City
12. Cardiff City
13. Portsmouth
14. Bournemouth

This season has to be played to a conclusion.  Fuck worrying about next season,  let's get this season finished then we can worry about next season.
 Solution is simple,  once we are able to play then finish this season,  whether that is in July, October or  January,  let's just get it done. 
If a season has to be voided then void next season,  not this season even leapfrog next season if we have to.

Justice must be shown to be done, clubs that deserve to be relegated should be relegated,  clubs that deserve to be promoted should be promoted.
Cup competitions could be adjusted depending on the finish of this season.   Either put back, or cancelled completely for one season if fixtures deem it necessary.

That has to be the correct approach but the limited information available from the press suggests this unlikely.  If the next season is shortened then everyone knows where they stand ab initio.

Whenever football can start - finish off this season. The 10 games or so could be played as a prequel  to the following season. Promotion and relegation from this season sorted.

Have, maybe, a 2 week break between this season’s programme finishing and the new season starting with clubs moving up or down to their appropriate league.

Yes, it will be difficult recruiting a squad not knowing which league you may be in but that is the price clubs have to pay to get it all sorted.

So, a 56 game season and drop Cup competitions except for the FA Cup

If the season get voided Bolton's punishment will effectively disappear as well and they will have completely got away with their financial mess. That in itself is enough reason that the season needs to be played out to a conclusion or at the very least concluded with the current standings or PPG calculation.

Completely agree. It's the only sensible approach*. Which means the football authorities will almost certainly do something different.

* the caveat to this is, as always, financial. It may be that the league has to bring this season to an end sooner rather than later to allow clubs to start selling season tickets for "next season" (whenever that might be) to allleviate their cashflow considerations. If that is a driver, I hope they still conclude this season, whether by PPG or even using the FIFA simulation model, rather than voiding it

There are zero perfect solutions other than finishing the campaign but I do think it's 'June or bust' as far as that option is concerned. 2020-21 will be impacted if the season restarts tomorrow or November.

The framework within the football industry is way more complex than we want it be and finishing the season post-June won't be easy as the FA will have their say. As will the Premier League, Football League, National League will have interests, BT Sport, Sky Sports, international media companies, PFA, LMA, sponsors..... yada yada yada etc etc - I'll be surprised and impressed with all involved if the 'greater good' happens.

If it happens then the last ten games will be glorious chaos, it's own mini-season. Previous campaign form will be largely irrelevant beyond acting like how F1 qualifying decides the starting grid. Whoever has managed their down time better will prevail. It should be fun (if Swindon go up).

There's more chance of me playing in the final 10 games than there is of them being played IMO.

void or this, not sure which is least damaging

:)

Get yer boots out laddie. (not sure why but in my head I said that in Bill Shankleys voice :D )

Slightly off piste, but given the lack of financial sustainability for L1/L2 Clubs, is there a decent logic to regionalising both divisions permanently - cut travelling costs and increase attendances through more local games for away fans

would not enjoy regionalised leagues myself

Maybe a good start would be to ask either openly or confidentially the owners and managers how they would like to see this season finish. Then go from there.

Everybody has a vested interest, though. Those in danger of relegation will want the season voided, those going for promotion will want the season finished. Those middle for diddle clubs would also probably go for a void.

Ask the question. Has to be a majority consensus to move forward or else the season is suspended indefinitely. Another thought I had driving to work this morning was this situation could easily be the opening for a proper breakaway European league.

Yep, I've being saying it for years. Lower costs, bigger crowds, more fun.

Think they've done that, well asked the clubs (which will be owners) anyway. The problem is building a consensus

There are not enough clubs of equal ability for this to work.

But isn't this just winding the clock back 60 years?  Pre-1958, you had Division 1, Division 2, Division 3 North & Division 3 South.  There's a precedent for this.

Are there 24 ‘southern’ and ‘northern’ clubs of equal ability, though?

If you are already a poor L2 southern club what chance have you got having to compete with 12 L1 clubs.

Anyhoo, this goes on long enough and there will be more than enough natural wastage.

The differential in the standard of football between League 1 & League 2 is not that great.  A bigger issue, I think, would be that only a couple of teams from each of the N&S divisions could be promoted to Div 2.

And it would rebalance over time - if all the L1 and L2 clubs were effectively at the same level, there'd be a balancing out in wages, which tends to be the differentiator in whether a club is any good or not, which would then balance out the quality. But as Audrey says, if this goes on for a few months or more we may well end up with only enough teams for one 3rd division anyway.

Problem solved - Squires has sorted it

https://www.theguardian.com/football/ng-interactive/2020/mar/31/david-squires-on-the-english-premier-league-game-julian-fellowes-netflix

/thread

I'm not a fan of regionalisation, just cause I think it would get boring playing the same teams.

I quite like the odd trip up to some Northern shithole like Blackpool for a weekend, though admittedly that's not very often these days.

plus, it feels Mickey mouse to me.

but that's all just personal opinion, suspect I'll be in the minority

I don't think you'd be in the minority. Lots of people don't like radical change and I think people would be upset with such a change and see it as disrespectful etc.

I do agree that people who love their away days would probably suffer and home attendances probably won't be as great as we'd anticipate (probably the same as now). Although I would argue that we play the same 'boring' teams most seasons anyway and, although I'm not a fan of the term, I don't think regionalisation would be any more 'tinpot' than what L1 and L2 already is.

The biggest issue would be the 'what is North and what is South?'

Non-League have never really fully figured it out and over the years with teams like Gloucester City being placed in the Northern divisions having to play Blyth Spartans which defeats the whole purpose. It would also get potentially probelmatic when the relegated clubs from The Championship and promoted teams from Non-League come through.

I am pro-review of the structure of English football as a result of current events, I doubt there will be. I am on the surface level pro-regionalisation of the lower leagues but definitely see why folk wouldn't want it.

If they voided the season, surely they open themselves up to legal action from those clubs that would have gained promotion, but surely with 3/4 of the season played voiding the season would be the wrong thing to do.

Potentially finish the season with how the table stands now, maybe make the play offs 1 leg all at neutral venues and a final.

They cant keep pushing it out as it then affects next season and any future season if the season finishes later to adjust then the following season has to start later so players get adequate rest (you could argue they are getting it now) and clubs able to deal with out of contract players and build new squads.

It is a minefield but surely the FL & PL have to be thinking this way and making plans for the what if scenario.

I think the next couple of weeks will be crucial, if there is still not sign of when things will improve then they will have to start thinking this way

The main thing is though helping out the clubs as the would losse gate receipts

There are already a handful of Non-League clubs looking in to appealing the decision to void their respective levels. I've read arguments elsewhere regarding things like fines paid being returned if everything has been expunged and, although not the biggest issue, it's a fair point.

Voiding the pro game would be a sports lawyers dream. It won't happen but until an announcement is made, I fear it.

And if they finish it in any other way than by playing the games (e.g. as it stands, PPG, simulating remaining matches) they open themselves up to legal action from the clubs that get relegated. As you say, it's a legal minefield

Apparently Bundesliga clubs have voted to resume the season in May, behind closed doors

I have a feeling we will do similar. Do a partial refund for season tickets or reduce next seasons prices for existing customers etc and finish it behind closed doors.

Maybe, but I'll join you.  Regionalisation would mean just the same few teams at the top each year. Having a Div 4 gives any team,  well managed, a shot at promotion.   I think a Div 3 N/S would do away with that. 

Also if a shit northern team popped up from the conference, we wouldn't play them, so how could we keep up our defeating the other 91 club record (92 If you count three myriad timers we've beaten ourselves).

I think there's another issue here that's not been discussed much.  If you void the competition, you set a precedent.  We will have completed ¾ of the season only for all of those games to become meaningless.  Supporters would, quite rightly, start to ask in future seasons whether the games they were watching would ultimately mean anything.  I hate to say it, but this could happen again...and if it did within the next 5 or 10 years, it could kill the concept of league football all together.

One way or another, a solution needs to be found that honours the 35 or so games that have already taken place.  And I'm not (I promise!) just saying that because I'm a Swindon fan.

PPG isn't perfect, but it's fairest solution,  imo. Unless the playing behind closed doors cam happen.

I don't get why you want regionalisation or what it would actually achieve. If we were a 'South club we'd still have Colchester, Southend, Plymouth and the like so it's not like you are getting rid of long journeys.  
Despite the amount we moan about it the transport connections in this country are now pretty good so I see no point in going back half a century. Also you'd be stuck playing the same teams and have half the variety we currently have so would get very boring. Trips to Carlisle, Morecambe etc get you going to places that you would normally never bother visiting.

Regionalisation is very unappealing to me and it also becomes a complete farce when the balancing of leagues is done. Gloucester City are in the National League North so places like Gateshead and Darlington are in their league, only 200 odd miles away so hardly regional.

Current North South/Border divide.

(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d9/English_Football_Conference_county_coverage.png)

Just highlights how shit it would be IMO

This.,  let's just get it done.

I don't want my money back if they lob it on ifollow

National League has now been suspended indefinitely. But meeting today between PL & EFL. What will happen next?

every fan would be different I'm sure but personally I would be really disappointed in any fan that asked for a refund and put their club financially at even more risk.

you have already paid your money last year. you watched 3/4 of a season supporting your team. your team may not survive if you all asked for it back. fans hate it when clubs treat fans like customers and fans should not treat it like a normal business.

Personally I would agree but with people losing jobs etc not all will be in a position to make this decision.

of course. it's a tough one, I'm not sure a refund would ever be on the table anyway. if clubs were on the brink in these exceptional circumstances there would be lot of support from fans willing to put money in to cover any of those wanting out.

What the hell is going on with that Welsh "North/South" divide? It's like a State Border in the United States of Frycheiniog  ;)

No conclusion in PL, EFL & PFA talks which continue today. Very worrying. Let's hope Bradford don't have the last laugh if the season is voided. Would Bury be back in the EFL?
I say finish 19/20 when we can, then have a season of 23 games - play every club once, random if you play a club home or away. Cup comps to be run as usual.

On finishing the season...

L1/L2 Clubs need the gate receipts
No point playing it behind closed doors
So should wait until we can attend games again
Then play this season to a conclusion
Have 2 weeks off and start the next season
Play every Sat-Tues-Sat with perhaps some Sat-Tues-Thurs-Sat for as long as it takes to get it back to equilibrium
Players might be knackered but would be great for fans and Clubs need it

Some sensible options from Mark Warburton

https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11711/11966787/managers-view-from-qpr-boss-mark-warburton-football-needs-to-set-a-return-date

Is this your opinion (fair enough) or something that came out the meeting?

It would be handy if they could just agree that the present season will be finished - come what may.

No need for any timescale.

Interesting:

https://www.coventrytelegraph.net/sport/football/football-news/coventry-city-league-one-fixtures-18025730

TLDR: the proposal is decide league placings on PPG, no relegation, promote those in auto spots plus the next one (i.e. no play-offs). Which would leave a 23-team Premiership, think it falls on that hurdle (because PL clubs won't accept the expansion of the league)

If pitches need to be dug up and relaid over the summer that would preclude any short 2-week turnaround between the 2 seasons, but I don't know if relaying is essential or if it can be put off for a year. Anyone know?

Why would the PL veto that? Subsequent seasons would see additional clubs relegated to return to a 20 team league.

Surely it’s the least they can do as no actual cash help is likely to be forthcoming.

And there's something no one (as far as I know) has mentioned - how long does it take to do the fixtures for the following season?

The best idea I’ve seen is finish this season - be it July, August or September. Have a month break before the start of next season, and have no domestic cup competitions (FA Cup, League Cup and Tinpot Trophy).
With that leaving you a number of free weekends and evening games, plus add an addition 4/5 evening games and you should still be able to finish the season at a relatively normal time.

Because they're a bunch of self-interested wankers with no interest in helping out the rest of football?

Done by computer isn't it? So I'd imagine that's pretty much click the button and off you go?

Can’t be beyond the wit of man - you could set up a ‘fixture list’ now for next year if you wanted, just use this years league position as placeholders and then drop in teams once the table is finalised

And then do a quick manual adjustment at the end so you don’t end up with things like Liverpool and Everton at home on the same day. That’s the bit you probably couldn’t be as thorough about - might have to resort to a lot more instances of moving games to Sunday’s/wednesdays rather than being too clever

Belgium league is the first to go, starting over again next season.

I firmly believe all leagues and cups will be voided here and across Europe. As soon as the Champs League goes everything under that will fall into line.

Got that wrong, they have declared the season over and final positions will stand.

That would be fine if happened over here!

This happening here will be fine with me too!

Seems the logical thing to do. This present season needs finalising ASAP so that the new season, whenever that is, will be sorted and clubs know which league they’ll be in and can plan accordingly.

I’m hoping and praying football returns in its usual format some time this year.

Why shouldn’t clubs go down based on the PPG scenario? 80% of the season is a pretty fair reflection so if you are in the relegation zone down you go. Under these proposals Bolton would stay up and effectively have avoided any punishment which would be a complete farce as them and Southend are almost 20 points adrift. Maidenhead have only suggested this because they are in the relegation zone themselves and would be relegated based on PPG.
I don’t see any reason why we should have inflated league sizes next season, I’d bet around 90% of the teams that would be relegated now based on PPG would actually go down even if the season finished.

Well said, Mo.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Kw39tcyg7So

Spot on

Agreed.

If we scrap the play-off promotion places so that 1 less team is relegated I’d bet that the number would be close to 100% but I’m only saying that as our Yellow friends would go up otherwise.

As far as I can tell all the teams had played the same number of games in the Belgian top league, so not so much of a problem with calling it quits.

Would using PPG here get around the games in hand issue without the clubs who have played more games getting upset?

Could we end up having to defend our title next season.  :hmmm:

If PPG is in play then we would go up as champions with Crewe in 2nd place. Cheltenham the only other affected by games played in the play off places and would stay in the position where they are now, Stevenage would still be relegated.

Exeter would dip out.

Expanding the PL to 23 teams probably wouldn’t work as with Champions and Europa Leagues, plus international breaks (these will be needed to sort Euro play offs and possibly 2022 World Cup qualifiers) and the need to finish for the European Championships means there are probably not sufficient available dates to fit in 44 games even playing twice a week.
What is clear is that if we finish 20/21  by playing all games (and they may need to ditch the playoffs to do that in a reasonable time frame), and have a break to facilitate the equivalent of a transfer window (replacing out of contract players and expired loans) there is unlikely to be time to play next season on the basis of having 46 games plus all the various cup competitions too. Logically the cups would be first to go (I think the boycott trophy will go, and the League cup downgraded at best, with replays being scrapped in the FA cup).
Talk of playing more than twice a week is fanciful (other than on a short term scenario to complete this season’s remaining games)  financial constraints will probably mean smaller squads next year, so the increased injury risk of playing too often is not really sustainable IMO.

PPG is a logical way to go if they want just to get on with next year, and it could be made slightly more sophisticated by taking account of home and away PPG (for teams whose remaining games are not evenly split).

I don’t follow the argument I read somewhere (may not have been on here) that finishing now will enable 20/21 season ticket sales to go ahead - if I hadn’t already bought mine under the early bird discount before the crisis began I would probably hold off until I knew what was going to happen, and of course if people are not being paid they won’t be able to commit anyway.

Exeter would go down 1 place and Cheltenham up 1 but if we ignore the play offs, which would probably have to be the case then neither would go up.

If they promote 4th place team instead of having the play off them Cheltenham would indeed go up instead of Exeter.

I would say that you'd only get the teams in and around the play-offs and the maybe 4 or 5 teams that are currently in the relegation zone but have a chance of surviving objecting. So if it went to a league wide vote it would get through as the teams it doesn't impact in mid-table would be happy as well as it provides a conclusion and allows them to plan for the future.
Out of the 92 teams I'd say 20 at most would have a genuine grievance to differing extents.

Concluding the season or some form of PPG/current positions should be the only options on the table, nullifying the season shouldn't be an option due to how far through the season we are, expenditure incurred by clubs, fans etc. The only reason nullifying has even been discussed is because people think it would be funny as Liverpool are top of the PL. I dislike them as much as anyone else but a petty vendetta shouldn't be influencing the outcome of an 80% complete season.

Given that money will talk, and the top leagues will have to schedule around the European Champions League and Championships being moved to summer 2021.  That pretty much kills off this season I think, so it will simply be how they do that - void or PPG.  I'd clearly prefer the latter as a Swindon fan, but is also seems the best of a bad set of possibilities.  At least the 3/4 of a season meant something and you avoid a lot of fans pressuring clubs for refunds etc.  You will no doubt get a legal challenge, but I doubt there is much that can be done in reality as no rule exists for dealing with a Pandemic, it will probably be down to the Administrator of the game to determine the best course of action.

Couldn't think of a better way of doing it !!!.

Sounds the best all round for me too!

Also if they nullify it league 1 will only have 23 teams again next season, or will Bury suddenly be allowed back in or will Notts County get their relegation from last season undone? That would create a minefield in itself. PPG or concluding the season are actually the least messy options.

I think PPG will have the fewest mines. Those being the handful of clubs that will kick-off.

Atlanta Utd just called me to check I was OK and not missing the games too much - of course, they were really calling to see if they could sell some tickets for later in the season assuming it starts back-up as they were only a couple of games in here.  Still, good idea and a pretty good approach they took on the call, not at all pushy.

I’m happy to put my mind at rest that if PPG is, indeed, the method to be used to finalise league positions, those yellow fuckers who currently sit 3rd would be overtaken by Wycombe as they are 1 point behind but have a game in hand.

Could easily be 31 clubs making a case if voided and annulled.

Sweet Jesus, that would be beautiful. :pint:

I see rugby are ending their season but honouring the results

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/52133983

Out of those of us in the bottom 2 leagues, how many would not survive if football didn’t return at all this calendar year?

Most, I'd guess. Without wage cuts, the situation could be as bad in the top 2 leagues as well. They are typically grossly overexposed on their income to wages ratio, many spending over 100% of income on wages alone. Burnely are one of the better run PL clubs and they have put out figures saying that if the season is not concluded it will cost them around £50m, they esitimate other clubs could be facing losses of twice that

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2020/apr/04/burnley-warn-of-50m-loss-due-to-suspension-of-english-football

Fuck!

Presume come June 30 a lot of clubs will shed a shitload of players - whether they’d want them to re-sign or not.

Quite possibly. Ironically, after the PL £125m aid package for Football League and National League clubs, well-run lower league clubs might end up coming out of this better than poorly run big clubs

If the season extends beyond 30 June then presumably UEFA will extend the transfer deadline until the season is concluded and existing contracts roll over for 2 or 3 months.

Feels like June is the month by which the season has to restart in either in full or behind closed doors. There has to be a cut off somewhere.

Heres' my 20 second thought process.

End the season as is. Records stay but no promotion or relegation

When we start up. Top team starts +8 points, 2nd +7 etc

Rest start on 0

Contracts roll until we start with 3 month window/thought process.

We melt the Kerry statue and build one for Doyle and Benda

Job done.

er nope

I got there on edit attempt number 4

I deleted that comment I made because it looked weird after you corrected it.

But the points stands. EMBRACE it.

I don’t think any of that money is ‘new’. It’s payments due at the end of the season anyway, released early to help EFL club’s cashflow

Sounds like in today meeting PFA have criticised the PL for not supporting the EFL more

I think Bolton would be happy!

And the Muff !!!.

Stevenage too

Oh bugger. In which case I take back my previous praise of the PL for what I thought was a decent gesture for once and revert back to my usual stance of wishing them all damned to hell. TBF everyone's a lot happier with things that way anyway

Rooney has been publicly showing that the stereotype of footballers being a bit dim is correct.  He has a small point, why target footballers when plenty of people earn decent money.  He is right, when we start looking at how to pay for this shit, we have to look in lots of cupboards.  However, he goes on to moan about being asked to take a pay cut by stating that if football can’t weather this it’s ina worse financial state than many players know.  FFS, nearly every club outside the top 10 or so are financial basket cases, all chasing greater debt to fund your lavish wage.

(https://i.postimg.cc/XN1SPJ1X/90766423-830943010738416-4687765411251355648-n.jpg)

And Derby are one of the clubs under investigation for trying to fiddle FFP with a stadium sell off switcheroo. Only needs to look beyond the end of his own nose

See our players won't be getting a pay-cut currently but the non-playing staff have been furloughed. No real issue with this at League 2 level. As the average wage is £40k in league 2 and majority of players out of contract in July I don't think a pay cut would really be appropriate and they can't be furloughed anyway as they'll be following fitness programmes from the club so effectively still working. With the non-playing staff I don't think we've got any choice but to furlough as we'll have pretty close to zero income other than from advanced 'solidarity' payments from the league.

I want to see them go....

You and me both

Sensible

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/52188913

Yep, especially the automatic extension of contracts.

Let's not forget their 'Sponsor/NotASponsor' shenanigans with that betting Company that Rooney himself wears the number of.

La liga considering a restart on May 28

Whenever this is over, I’d presume all the big clubs will not be doing their usual long distance pre season, money-making friendlies all over the world.

If they can’t be shamed into giving a bit of financial help to the smaller clubs, the least they could do is have away friendlies at us bottom feeders so we can make a bit of money.

You assume close season / pre-season will be shorter as players would have had a chunk of time off anyway but that would mess with contract renewals and player recruitment.

And then the season will still need to finish on time next season with the euro's 

Its not going to be easy whatever decision is made, I can see the season finishing but games may end up Sat / Tues / Thurs to complete the season in a reasonable time.

With only 11 or 12 games left excluding PO’s the EFL season could be completed in a month plus the PO which in themselves could be shortened to just one SF each and a final. A month off for R&R, maybe six weeks ‘closed season’ where pitches are dealt with and players instead of pissing off on holiday have a warm down and a warm up prep fitness wise and the off we jolly well go olt poy.

What happens if one person in any squad or backroom staff test positive for coronavirus during the month period and then everyone has to self-isolate?

Exactly.

The virus will still be around in July/August, not to the extent it is now hopefully but people will still be catching it.

All it will take is one player/staff member at one club to get infected, that whole club goes into isolation, the entire fixture list gets delayed once more.

The premier league clubs will be able to test everyone every day as a means of mitigation (if private tests are widely available at that point) but it’s very expensive so likely to be beyond all league 2 clubs. There would even be an active advantage for a club to start self-isolating at the time of the final fixture so they would know the result they needed to gain promotion or avoid relegation (if the other games went ahead).

Don’t know the answer other than it’s far more complicated than LL suggests.

I think as and when we are back playing be it finishing this season or playing next we are going to have back to back games most weeks in terms of Saturday/Tuesday so we’ll need to make sure we have that in mind with future recruitment.  Unfortunately we may not be in a position to gamble on quality players with questionable injury records which is a shame as we’ve done well with this approach during the current campaign.

Scottish clubs outside the SPL to vote on a proposal to use a points per game if season can't be finished.

SPFL: Clubs to vote on lower leagues; Premiership decision on hold - https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/52214595

No one has an answer,  but someones got to make a decision at some stage.

Obviously the big issue is that there is zero chance of this being the only lockdown of the year.

Most likely we’ll enter into one every few months until we get a vaccine in 18-24 months

If we can get our testing processes anywhere near Germany’s over that time, then at least the time periods of each lockdown will be shorter. Bundesliga players are back in training - still months away from that being possible here

Interesting, that would have been a far better option for the lower leagues rather than totally expunging the results as they did.

Could be worth the FL bringing this in for National League South and North to see what happens and then slide it up to the National league then maybe the football league too. See what the fall out is as it is gradually brought in.

This is a very good read from Accrington's Andy Holt - TLDR: some clubs will go bust in the hiatus between this season and next season; many more at risk of going under next season (whenever that is) when a lot of losses will be realised

https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1248112461259177984.html

https://twitter.com/ProfKarolSikora Seems to be a more positive, informed outlook than many.

Suggesting a return to normal, including mass gatherings by June 1.

We can but hope and pray.

The NHS have been preparing for the peak to be on Easter Sunday FWIW

June 1? On what basis?

I only know what he's tweeted and what is his opinion. It's based on the peak being this weekend, or at least very soon.

But... he has been very positive throughout and built a bit of a following from being a positive, informed "voice of reason" so the caveat is that he may be playing to that.

Alan Nixon:

Players off until May 16. Full season to complete inside 56 days. Play offs retained. Home and away semis. All closed doors. Players must be paid. Prem rescue cash NOT being handed out yet. Up to clubs to have a say on all this. Parry has put a lot of though into this. Fair play.

Be a tough call for lower league clubs to pay players with no gate income.
Unless that's what the prem rescue cash will cover

Very true, however, it has been Suggested that BHCD games could be televised on some for of pay per view set up.

Rescue cash, me hairy arse. Some owners will trouser that and shut their club down.

There’s going to be some mighty fallout from this.

I presume there will be an Ifollow style of subscription for fans. Clearly its not going to be anything like gate receipts but at least there would be some income for clubs.

Not going to generate anywhere near a normal matchday revenue I doubt, will certainly help.
Interesting times ahead, if they arent already.

I do agree but the usual matchday costs will be also be less, no need for police or the matchday staff for example.

It's not additional funds. It's the solidarity payments from August brought forward to April. It simply defers the problem.

If they do finish it behind closed doors and show it online, we should have a virutal TEF thingamybob and watch it together. It's all the rage nowadays.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DMo6Ju8SJ8o

Via Zoom?

I don't think it's viable for FL to return behind closed doors. June 1, in front of crowds would be my guess.

that sounds optimistic to me. but what do I know, hope you are right

BBC Article related to Nixon tweet:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/52230105

Apparently the club gets 70% of the take on ifollow, I.e £7 per viewer per match,  obviously less from season ticket holder's, but can't see there being that many of them.   It would be some income for the club but as said nothing like a real matchday.  Expenditure would be a lot less though,  maybe the way ahead.

Would be a shame to not watch us get promoted (if it happens) but I'd rather this than the season getting expunged

Reading the comments below that article - & elsewhere - it feels to me that the prevailing feeling is that the season should just be abandoned.  I disagree for reasons that I've gone through before - but with so  many people taking the view now that football doesn't really matter anyway in the scheme of what's going on at the moment, it wouldn't be that hard for the EFL to void the season.  I'm not sure either that playing 9 or 10 games behind closed doors is going to work.

Throwing one more idea in to the mix.  How about cancelling all matches now until when next season would have started (in 4 months from now) - and then resume the 2019/20 season?  You would then complete that season in October, before taking another short break before the start of the 2020/21 shortly before Christmas.  The 2020/21 season would be half the length of a normal league season; with each team playing its opponents just once.  Some teams would get 11 home games and others 12...but you'd have to swallow that.  I'm not sure how you'd handle cup competitions.  Just a thought.

Assuming it can be managed logistically (i.e. without putting players at unnecessary risk), playing the remaining games behind closed doors is always going to be less hassle from a legal/administrative point of view than voiding. If it comes to it, then PPG. Voiding is the worst possible outcome.

I'm with you there.  Just being pessimistic!

If the football authorities have any marbles left at all, they have to be considering the implications of having an interrupted season for 2020/21 as well.  There is now way, without a vaccine, that we return fully to normal by a set date in a few months and then it all goes on as before.  Best case scenario, we return to a degree of normality and have intermittent shut downs are tightening again.

Football behind closed doors is utterly pointless. Just figure out a way to wait until we can resume, irrelevant of how long.

Agree with the sentiment but clubs cannot hang on indenfinitely without revenue. One of the big drivers to end this season, which really isn't being considered in a lot of these discussions is that most clubs around now would be getting in season ticket money (not many start selling STs as early as we do). The advance from the PL will plug that gap temporarily, once it starts to be distributed. But that money will run out too. Once an end point is set for this season, and a start point for next season, then clubs can begin/resume selling STs and bring in some of their own revenues again. Football cannot be suspended indefinitely beyond the next month or so without further external funding.

I doubt that having a 'point' is a priority right now.

Either wait until it’s safe for fans to attend or do it on PPG. Behind closed doors will be a nonsense and you’ll get odd results as matches won’t have the same intensity and some players will just be going through the motions especially at teams with nothing to play for.

They should just delay it until safe to resume with fans, scrap the nations league, scrap the Euros and scrap the 2022 World Cup to allow club football to get back in sync. International football is unimportant in the grand scheme of things and the 2022 World Cup shouldn’t be happening anyway with the corruption issues. I know there is no chance of FIFA doing this because they are lucrative for them but this should be getting looked at.

This. 

There will be no "going back to normal" for the foreseeable future.  The football shutdown was fast-tracked due to Arteta getting the coronavirus.  Any behind-closed-doors plans act as if footballers (and anyone working alongside a football team) and their families are somehow immune. 

I don't mind the idea of behind closed doors under the circumstances.

well, if it's that or void anyway

Yep I agree.

BCD is really the only way to complete the season via matches actually being played. Those saying wait until crowds can come back and watch...that simply won't happen (or shouldn't) for a good while yet. That "good while" will be too long for the leagues to wait.

BCD can be achieved as long as all involved in said fixtures are Covid-19 free. I would assume if it is imperative to complete the season, the PFA, FA, PL & FL will all provide the funds from their own pots to test all 92 squads and management.

Other sports could do this too. Motorsport could do this much more easily and the same with a lot of Tennis matches too. Since both sports naturally already practice "social distancing". The only element you are taking out is the "live" spectator. In the current environment, I'm sure we could all cope with watching our favourite sports at home (isn't that pretty much Sky Sports et al whole remit anyway - armchair support).

If some sports really want to engage the virtual experience, they could surely tap up a sponsor or two and project "fans" onto the seats and play audio of the crowd when an event happens. If EA Sports can create an audio visual environment for gamers then I'm pretty sure it can be done (if we want to explore that side further). They could do a sponsorship deal with the FL and provide a "matchday" experience.

None of it is going to feel like it normally would at the moment but we don't live in normal times. I'd happily pay to watch a BCD stream and if it had virtual fans in the stadium (just so we feel good about it), with reactions at key points then fair enough. However, I don't think any of the leagues priority is the fans at this moment in time. They are focussing purely on how to conclude the season. We aren't top of the tree.

Agreed, and some fans would turn up anyway, even if not invited.

Yep and pay a FPF of £60 for the privilege, on a par with the wheelbarrow axe wielding woman in today’s thinking mans beano.

Feel sorry for Brentford fans, might not get one last visit to Griffin Park.

One of the only decent grounds left