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Swindon Town FC => Players => Topic started by: The Artist Formerly Known as Audrey on Thursday, May 23, 2019, 07:16:37



Title: The frozen budget (not rumours) thread
Post by: The Artist Formerly Known as Audrey on Thursday, May 23, 2019, 07:16:37
Wellens now saying the budget doesnít look good at the moment in terms of attracting players.

His idea of sorting out transfers early isnít likely. The whole scenario is exactly the same as previous years.

If, indeed, Knoyle thinks he can get a better deal at Cambridge itís a sad indictment. Surely itís better to push the boat out a little for 2 players you know well then have to take a chance on unknowns.


Title: The frozen budget (not rumours) thread
Post by: Shrivvy Road on Thursday, May 23, 2019, 07:28:45
Wellens now saying the budget doesnít look good at the moment in terms of attracting players.

His idea of sorting out transfers early isnít likely. The whole scenario is exactly the same as previous years.

If, indeed, Knoyle thinks he can get a better deal at Cambridge itís a sad indictment. Surely itís better to push the boat out a little for 2 players you know well then have to take a chance on unknowns.
Great. So excited


Title: The frozen budget (not rumours) thread
Post by: Sir red ken on Thursday, May 23, 2019, 07:46:23
Wellens now saying the budget doesnít look good at the moment in terms of attracting players.

His idea of sorting out transfers early isnít likely. The whole scenario is exactly the same as previous years.

If, indeed, Knoyle thinks he can get a better deal at Cambridge itís a sad indictment. Surely itís better to push the boat out a little for 2 players you know well then have to take a chance on unknowns.
The fact is there isn't much money, lack of investment has seen performances decline and gates/revenue fall.
We have performed worse, year on year, under LP and despite all the big talk, most of our squad rebuilding will take place a week before the season starts with free's and loans. We may get a player or two like Nelson (please god) but building a quality team which has trained and is ready to go from the start isn't going to happen. Keep doing what you've been doing and you'll keep getting the same result.


Title: The frozen budget (not rumours) thread
Post by: Reg Smeeton on Thursday, May 23, 2019, 07:46:37
Wellens now saying the budget doesnít look good at the moment in terms of attracting players.

His idea of sorting out transfers early isnít likely. The whole scenario is exactly the same as previous years.

If, indeed, Knoyle thinks he can get a better deal at Cambridge itís a sad indictment. Surely itís better to push the boat out a little for 2 players you know well then have to take a chance on unknowns.

None of which is in any way a surprise.... we know how Power works, and to be fair I don't suppose he's been anything but up front with Wellens about it.


Title: The frozen budget (not rumours) thread
Post by: The Artist Formerly Known as Audrey on Thursday, May 23, 2019, 07:55:55
Wellens likes playing hardball as well. Thatís going to work well or spectacularly kick him up the arse.


Title: The frozen budget (not rumours) thread
Post by: Reg Smeeton on Thursday, May 23, 2019, 08:03:16
Wellens likes playing hardball as well. Thatís going to work well or spectacularly kick him up the arse.

At the end of the day, there are few jobs in FL management, and Wellens hasn't got much sucess on his CV so far, so he'll be happy enough to be in work.  Look at a fella like Flynn, has done a fine job at Newport in difficult circumstances, with probably similar resources to ours... you can imagine that someone further up the food chain might take him on.... Newport can have Pulis back.

That's the sort of thing Wellens has to try and do... raise our profile a bit.


Title: The frozen budget (not rumours) thread
Post by: Panda Paws on Thursday, May 23, 2019, 08:16:04
The quote actually says the budget is frozen from last year, which was competitive. It's positive that the budget hasn't been cut.

RW is preaching patience and commenting that clubs rushing in overpaying for players who have few options. It makes complete sense.





Title: The frozen budget (not rumours) thread
Post by: pauld on Thursday, May 23, 2019, 08:17:57
If, indeed, Knoyle thinks he can get a better deal at Cambridge itís a sad indictment.
Wasn't the interest the other way round? i.e. Cambridge looking at Knoyle, not seen anything to say he wants to go there (apologies if there has been and I've not seen it)


Title: The frozen budget (not rumours) thread
Post by: Flashheart on Thursday, May 23, 2019, 08:25:35
What he actually said:

Quote
At this moment, where we are with the window being so early, the budget isnít looking so good.

The 'because' is important.

Quote
ďBecause itís early, agents and players are asking for more money than what they deserve and what they will actually get.

ďItís about being patient and not rushing in.

So, no change really.


Title: The frozen budget (not rumours) thread
Post by: Batch on Thursday, May 23, 2019, 08:32:18
Its May, even I'm not concerned.

Would be nice to have the core* of the squad together for day 1 of pre season. if not then I guess that's the time to get worried.

i.e. the 7 or 8 players Wellens thinks are key, but I guess that includes already contracted players


Title: The frozen budget (not rumours) thread
Post by: Ticker45 on Thursday, May 23, 2019, 08:33:17
If the budget is the same as last year, which appears to be the case, but we have less players on the payroll as per RW's intention then I assume there would be a little more money to spend on wages, or am I being too optimistic?  :hmmm:


Title: The frozen budget (not rumours) thread
Post by: Flashheart on Thursday, May 23, 2019, 08:34:22
Deliberately or otherwise, the adver has managed to put a spin on it, making out as though Power has suddenly changed his mind and Wellens now has less to work with. They could have said something along the lines of "Power has not cut the budget", but that would not be sensationalist enough for them.

We've known for months that the budget will be about the same as last season, though. Wellens is just explaining the difficulties of getting in players early.


Title: The frozen budget (not rumours) thread
Post by: Reg Smeeton on Thursday, May 23, 2019, 08:35:36
The quote actually says the budget is frozen from last year, which was competitive. It's positive that the budget hasn't been cut.

RW is preaching patience and commenting that clubs rushing in overpaying for players who have few options. It makes complete sense.

With inflation and price rises in fuel etc... a freeze is effectively a cut.


Title: The frozen budget (not rumours) thread
Post by: Flashheart on Thursday, May 23, 2019, 08:36:58
If the budget is the same as last year, which appears to be the case, but we have less players on the payroll as per RW's intention then I assume there would be a little more money to spend on wages, or am I being too optimistic?  :hmmm:


This appears to be the plan. Quality over quantity.

We had a huge squad last season. 32(?) players


Title: The frozen budget (not rumours) thread
Post by: reeves4england on Thursday, May 23, 2019, 08:38:04
So no negative comment about the budget and no backtracking on previous plans then.

Amazing how many people confuse the words "as early as possible" with "before the end of May".


Title: The frozen budget (not rumours) thread
Post by: Reg Smeeton on Thursday, May 23, 2019, 08:43:31
If the budget is the same as last year, which appears to be the case, but we have less players on the payroll as per RW's intention then I assume there would be a little more money to spend on wages, or am I being too optimistic?  :hmmm:

In a perfect world, Wellens would have a finely designed squad of about 20 all fit and and firing, and raring to go... however in the real world, there will always be a certain number of deadwood players, through injury, falling out, either with the gaffer or of form etc.  You have to budget for this and hope you can keep them to a minimum.... if you get a critical mass of disaffected players it can lead to a sort of 10/11 situation whereby on paper what looks an OK squad ends up as one of our poorer sides.


Title: The frozen budget (not rumours) thread
Post by: Pookemon on Thursday, May 23, 2019, 08:48:55
The fact is there isn't much money, lack of investment has seen performances decline and gates/revenue fall.
We have performed worse, year on year, under LP and despite all the big talk, most of our squad rebuilding will take place a week before the season starts with free's and loans. We may get a player or two like Nelson (please god) but building a quality team which has trained and is ready to go from the start isn't going to happen. Keep doing what you've been doing and you'll keep getting the same result.
I don't think it is a lack of investment that's been to blame (you could always spend more of course) but the bigger factor has been some very poor decision making, particularly the hiring/firing of managers and squad building.
Didn't we reportedly spend over £500k plus top wages on Woolery and Anderson!  Cracking "Investment".

If you look at the guys that left over the summer
 - Vigs, Taylor, Richards and Lancashire must have all been on top wages for this league, none of whom were playing regularly under Wellens.
 - Dunne, McCourt, Smith again barely played.   (Probably on a fair whack too given Phil Brown's DM fetish!)
 - Bennett and Robinson, we must have been paying most of their wages, or why would league 1 clubs have loaned them out.  By all accounts Bennett was Rovers' top earner
 - Robertson!!!!

Surely if you use that money properly and balance the squad better, you don't need to spend more.  After all you don't have to be world beaters to get out this league - just less shit than the others.


Title: The frozen budget (not rumours) thread
Post by: Panda Paws on Thursday, May 23, 2019, 08:49:47
With inflation and price rises in fuel etc... a freeze is effectively a cut.

In wider economics, sure. In football? You haven't got a clue, and nor have I, what the market is doing at our end.


Title: The frozen budget (not rumours) thread
Post by: reeves4england on Thursday, May 23, 2019, 08:52:09
I don't think it is a lack of investment that's been to blame (you could always spend more of course) but the bigger factor has been some very poor decision making, particularly the hiring/firing of managers and squad building.
Didn't we reportedly spend over £500k plus top wages on Woolery and Anderson!  Cracking "Investment".

If you look at the guys that left over the summer
 - Vigs, Taylor, Richards and Lancashire must have all been on top wages for this league, none of whom were playing regularly under Wellens.
 - Dunne, McCourt, Smith again barely played.   (Probably on a fair whack too given Phil Brown's DM fetish!)
 - Bennett and Robinson, we must have been paying most of their wages, or why would league 1 clubs have loaned them out.  By all accounts Bennett was Rovers' top earner
 - Robertson!!!!

Surely if you use that money properly and balance the squad better, you don't need to spend more.  After all you don't have to be world beaters to get out this league - just less shit than the others.

Who does this guy think he is... on here for 5 minutes and already talking sense. Time to wield the ban hammer, mods?

Wellens has said himself that the top earners in the squad weren't even playing, which shows just how much potential there is for improvement should we get the recruitment right, especially with the reduced squad size.


Title: The frozen budget (not rumours) thread
Post by: The Artist Formerly Known as Audrey on Thursday, May 23, 2019, 08:57:47
Some players Preston for example, wanted to leave. I get the feeling Knoyle and Conroy want to stay but, understandably, on better contracts.

Money better spent on those 2 than, for example, signing another ĎDaveí on what must be decent money.

The budget isnít just for new players. Maybe Iím over egging Knoyle and Conroy, but could we expect better replacements?


Title: The frozen budget (not rumours) thread
Post by: Reg Smeeton on Thursday, May 23, 2019, 08:58:22
So no negative comment about the budget and no backtracking on previous plans then.

Amazing how many people confuse the words "as early as possible" with "before the end of May".

It's inevitable that people take this as a bad sign.... don't forget we had the Wellens thing about, what I describe as the broken club, and he said atm it's a side not a club and he wants to restore that sense of it being properly run.
 
Now in Power's world, properly run, means not spunking money on things like wages, until the last minute, holding out til the deadline to get your loans and probably now not bothering too much with friendlies, tours etc, because there won't be much of a squad.

In the fan's world, we want to see some sign of intent, players offered contracts to, seemingly keen to put pen to paper, and realistic talk.... which could even be saying.... we're all going on a summer holiday so there'll be nothing until say mid June.


Title: The frozen budget (not rumours) thread
Post by: Reg Smeeton on Thursday, May 23, 2019, 09:09:01
Wellens has said himself that the top earners in the squad weren't even playing, which shows just how much potential there is for improvement should we get the recruitment right, especially with the reduced squad size.

In a perfect world... but you have to be very lucky if using a small squad. One of then recurring features of our recent struggles has been injuries to key players either in pre season or early season.  It is a distinct luxury at Div 4 level to be able to carry the necessary squad men, but that is what marks out intent.


Title: The frozen budget (not rumours) thread
Post by: Panda Paws on Thursday, May 23, 2019, 09:10:06
It's inevitable that people take this as a bad sign.... don't forget we had the Wellens thing about, what I describe as the broken club, and he side atm it's a side not a club and he wants to restore that sense of it being properly run.
 
Now in Power's world, properly run, means not spunking money on things like wages, until the last minute, holding out til the deadline to get your loans and probably now not bothering too much with friendlies, tours etc, because there won't be much of a squad .

In the fan's world, we want to see some sign of intent, players offered contracts to, seemingly keen to put pen to paper, and realistic talk.... which could even be saying.... we're all going on a summer holiday so there'll be nothing until say mid June.

Again, you're just making things up. RW said in a post-match at the end of the season that we have a full roster of pre-season fixtures confirmed already.


Title: Re: The frozen budget (not rumours) thread
Post by: Waffle on Thursday, May 23, 2019, 09:24:26
Again, you're just making things up. RW said in a post-match at the end of the season that we have a full roster of pre-season fixtures confirmed already.

To be honest I don't think he would of organised a full pre-season already if he didn't have a plan. Their must be a couple players we are looking at and are going to trial in those games? I may have this wrong, but isn't that how we got Knoyle? Rather then announcing him from the off?

Also If I am honest I wasn't expecting much in May, the market has just opened and most contracts end in some point in June and everyone is on holiday while demanding a lot more then they are worth. I feel like some people are getting a little to eager, which is good, but we have to look at it realistically, we are currently in league 2 we aren't going to splashing out mass amounts on every player but we need to be realistic with our budget, if its the same as last year we are aren't the best budget in the league but we still have a reasonably good one, especially after cutting away the high earners who don't play.

For once I actually trust a manager for his recruitment which is a surprise to say. He brought in some good signings, Bennett and Robinson for example in January and look how well they played for us in the end. Also he has looked at youth and from the looks of the two guys he signed in January, I think they could work their way into the first team following a good preseason.

Also isn't RW on holiday, or did I misread that?


Title: Re: The frozen budget (not rumours) thread
Post by: Reg Smeeton on Thursday, May 23, 2019, 09:27:23
Again, you're just making things up. RW said in a post-match at the end of the season that we have a full roster of pre-season fixtures confirmed already.

Well that's encouraging, and I look forward to seeing the properly structured list.... recently we've had the usual games v 'Marine and Melksham, with perhaps a late addition behind closed doors job.  I'm not sure the last time we had a rake of high level games in 15/16 is the best way to go, but the 14,000 crowd v Scousers did generate some excitement.


Title: Re: The frozen budget (not rumours) thread
Post by: Panda Paws on Thursday, May 23, 2019, 09:28:29
To be honest I don't think he would of organised a full pre-season already if he didn't have a plan. Their must be a couple players we are looking at and are going to trial in those games? I may have this wrong, but isn't that how we got Knoyle? Rather then announcing him from the off?

Also If I am honest I wasn't expecting much in May, the market has just opened and most contracts end in some point in June and everyone is on holiday while demanding a lot more then they are worth. I feel like some people are getting a little to eager, which is good, but we have to look at it realistically, we are currently in league 2 we aren't going to splashing out mass amounts on every player but we need to be realistic with our budget, if its the same as last year we are aren't the best budget in the league but we still have a reasonably good one, especially after cutting away the high earners who don't play.

For once I actually trust a manager for his recruitment which is a surprise to say. He brought in some good signings, Bennett and Robinson for example in January and look how well they played for us in the end. Also he has looked at youth and from the looks of the two guys he signed in January, I think they could work their way into the first team following a good preseason.

Also isn't RW on holiday, or did I misread that?

RW said he's taking (took) a short break - he was back in the club last week given he was doing club media.

And Knoyle trialed for us at Woking. He looked good that day and proved to be a shrewd pick up.

We should somehow be able to ban serious discussions about football until July 1.


Title: Re: The frozen budget (not rumours) thread
Post by: Waffle on Thursday, May 23, 2019, 09:30:19

We should somehow be able to ban serious discussions about football until July 1.


That would be the ideal world wouldn't it, all the experts on here, including us, need a break haha


Title: Re: The frozen budget (not rumours) thread
Post by: Abrahammer on Thursday, May 23, 2019, 09:39:58
Well that's encouraging, and I look forward to seeing the properly structured list.... recently we've had the usual games v 'Marine and Melksham, with perhaps a late addition behind closed doors job.

.....with perhaps 2 home games against higher league opposition like last pre-season.

Thought you were a facts man


Title: Re: The frozen budget (not rumours) thread
Post by: Bob's Orange on Thursday, May 23, 2019, 10:08:11
I heard (not sure where) that we had lined up pre-season friendlies with Birmingham City and a Man U XI.


Title: Re: The frozen budget (not rumours) thread
Post by: pauld on Thursday, May 23, 2019, 10:10:20
So no negative comment about the budget and no backtracking on previous plans then.

Amazing how many people confuse the words "as early as possible" with "before the end of May".
Equally, Wellens is no mug, he will be well aware that his words will cause precisely the reaction they have even if he has quite carefully worded it. He's clearly looking to provoke a reaction IMO


Title: Re: The frozen budget (not rumours) thread
Post by: horlock07 on Thursday, May 23, 2019, 13:25:38
It's inevitable that people take this as a bad sign....

Is it, the majority on here don't seem to have done so?


Title: Re: The frozen budget (not rumours) thread
Post by: Oldwembley69 on Thursday, May 23, 2019, 13:34:35
Slow news day for the adver so  runs headline grabbing article. If we are to run with less players then the budget for better players should be there. Also allows Wellens to let us know his great plan will not get underway for a month...or so. 


Title: Re: The frozen budget (not rumours) thread
Post by: Bogus Dave on Thursday, May 23, 2019, 15:26:27
Adver journo on Twitter earlier said Wellens is off in Dubai for ten days at the moment anyway, so doubt huge amounts going on in the next week

Any way, and I canít remember if Iíve said this already, but a £2m budget lets you get 5 Ďmarqueeí players at £4K per week (which Iíd assume would be top league two wages), and pad out 15 others at £1.8k per week average (which again Iím assuming isnít a terrible wage for this level, especially when you consider likes of twine, romansko will probably be on less than that). And then you get 5 loanees on top

A very simple way of breaking it down, but you could definitely build a promotion winning team on that amount


Title: Re: The frozen budget (not rumours) thread
Post by: Batch on Thursday, May 23, 2019, 15:34:42
is your maths right?

edit: yes they are, but you forgot employer contributions, pension, etc -  unless that's included in your estimates, but I guess that's only 15% or so - so I'll shut it


Title: Re: The frozen budget (not rumours) thread
Post by: Oldwembley69 on Thursday, May 23, 2019, 15:43:33
Adver journo on Twitter earlier said Wellens is off in Dubai for ten days at the moment anyway, so doubt huge amounts going on in the next week

Any way, and I canít remember if Iíve said this already, but a £2m budget lets you get 5 Ďmarqueeí players at £4K per week (which Iíd assume would be top league two wages), and pad out 15 others at £1.8k per week average (which again Iím assuming isnít a terrible wage for this level, especially when you consider likes of twine, romansko will probably be on less than that). And then you get 5 loanees on top

A very simple way of breaking it down, but you could definitely build a promotion winning team on that amount

Make this 2.5m ish plus loans


Title: Re: The frozen budget (not rumours) thread
Post by: Flashheart on Thursday, May 23, 2019, 15:43:40
It highlights just how badly the money has been wasted in the past.


Title: Re: The frozen budget (not rumours) thread
Post by: Reg Smeeton on Thursday, May 23, 2019, 16:50:48
is your maths right?

edit: yes they are, but you forgot employer contributions, pension, etc -  unless that's included in your estimates, but I guess that's only 15% or so - so I'll shut it

Depends whether you're talking netto or grosso... players prefer netto.


Title: Re: The frozen budget (not rumours) thread
Post by: Legends-Lounge on Thursday, May 23, 2019, 18:56:52
Depends whether you're talking netto or grosso... players prefer netto.

Taken from the Rudd Gullit book of salary negotiations. Whoíd have thought it that the forum knowitall would plagiarise some one elseís statement? 


Title: Re: The frozen budget (not rumours) thread
Post by: leftside on Thursday, May 23, 2019, 19:15:35
The fact is there isn't much money, lack of investment has seen performances decline and gates/revenue fall.
We have performed worse, year on year, under LP and despite all the big talk, most of our squad rebuilding will take place a week before the season starts with free's and loans. We may get a player or two like Nelson (please god) but building a quality team which has trained and is ready to go from the start isn't going to happen. Keep doing what you've been doing and you'll keep getting the same result.

2017/18 ave = 6380

2018/19 ave = 6427

https://www.worldfootball.net/attendance/eng-league-two-2017-2018/1/

https://www.footballwebpages.co.uk/league-two/attendances