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Honda to close it's Swindon plant according to breaking news on sky.

https://news.sky.com/story/honda-to-stun-ministers-with-closure-of-swindon-factory-11641154

By 2022, not immediately. But still, shit.

http://www.cityam.com/273415/honda-close-swindon-factory-putting-3500-jobs-risk

Beaten to a link by nemo, thats really not great new at all.

That's devistating.  The supply chain will add 1000s to the unemployed list too.

Turkeys, Christmas etc

Welp!

 When trhe likelihood of this was flagged up in 2017 post ref.... this was my take.


That view hasn't changed, although they'll be withdrawing the jobs to Japan as opposed to Slovakia, as Japan have got the sort of deal with the EU that Brexiteers want us to have, which we are now leaving.

Being out of the EU want save the jobs, but a reduction in conditions and worker's rights sought by Brexiteers might encourage something else for the site.

Horrible news.

Deepest sympathy to all who will be affected by this.

The market for cars is saturated, and the sales have been in decline for a while everywhere.. There will be more that downscale in the coming years. Wouldnt be surprised if Amazon started doing them in all honesty at some point.

That's a devastating blow for the town. 3000+ jobs direct and how many in the supply chain plus knock-ons? Jesus. I know a few people who work there, they must be shitting themselves right now.

I remember when Honda closed for 4 months back in 2009, due to the 2008 crash. Very strange night in OT, when the final shift finished... hordes of folk about getting absolutely hammered with an end of the world carelessness.

There are many predictions that the consequence of Brexit, will make the crash look benign.

Bad news for the town but a site for a new County Ground. - The Rat Trap would be busy!

https://twitter.com/JustinTomlinson/status/1097507582820995072

Tomlinson's first reaction seems to have been to defend Brexit, which seems a bit tone deaf. There's definitely a 'it's a bit more complex than that' argument, but maybe not before 'this is terrible and here's what I'm going to do to help'

Tomlinson doesn't want to carry the can for his campaigning for Brexit....I'm sure he'll think of his own job before those of his constituents.

Reg, I'm sure this is more in relation to the trade deal from Feb 1st. ;)

Is that the one Liam Fox negotiated with the Faeroe Islands?

Shit news for Honda workers and Swindon.
As an aside can anyone enlighten me as to what Buckland and Tomlinson have positively done for Swindon so far ?

Regarding?

Well JT got 30K from Wonga for Supermarine... and Buckland highlighted that investing in slightly iffy film companies was a way of offsetting some $ away from HMRC, so others may have followed his example of supporting the Britsih film industry.

I say the last bit because there are local filmmakers struggling away in a local micro industry, who could do with some support.

Maybe everyone should a take a leaf from Antony Wedgwood-Ben regarding tax affairs eh Reg?

I wouldn’t imagine that the views of an MP in Swindon get a great deal of traction in Honda’s boardroom. Very bad news for the town, to state the bleeding obvious - but at least we’ll be self-governing (by MP’s who still won’t be relevant in boardrooms) to take the edge of the implosion of the economy.

I think before jumping to conclusions we should wait for the official statement.

Car sales though have declined massively- and with the new Japan trade deal signed with the EU I guess building in Japan more cost efficient. Interesting to note they are also closing their Turkey plant and are not relocating anywhere else in Europe

Why didn't Honda ever sponsor STFC?

Good liddence to em!

No news about their factory in Slovakia that is actually in the EU though? Unless I’ve missed it

Whoever could have seen this coming

https://twitter.com/faisalislam/status/1097502214392872960?s=20

don't think they have one in Slovakia?

Haha, I’m talking out of my arse again

jaguar Landover are building a factory there if it helps

Ahhhh, that’s where i got confused

I’m waiting for you and your accolites to arm yourselves with buckets and march ‘Jarrow’ style the length and breadth of this sceptred isle shaking said buckets in town centres to raise money for those being made redundant. You have three years to sort this out. After all it was mighty fine for those miners back in the ‘80’s to come to Swindon and do the same.

Do you have any positive arguments to make, or just provide more whataboutisms?

I doubt he will do.  When it comes to Brexit, he (and many, many like him) becomes the captain of the Titantic, refusing to acknowledge the existence of the big, fuck-off iceberg heading our way.

Tomlinson's first reaction seems to have been to defend Brexit, which seems a bit tone deaf. There's definitely a 'it's a bit more complex than that' argument, but maybe not before 'this is terrible and here's what I'm going to do to help'





Considering the workforce of Honda has been told nothing (to date) maybe Mr Tomlinson should of held off from defending Brexit... More worried about defending Brexit than thinking maybe be should wait with his statement until the workforce had been told... Disgusted with him... No news had been leaked about Turkey until his statement...

A bit like the blinkered few who blame absolutely everything on Brexit. Perhaps our poor home form has found a scapegoat?

Tomlinson had to say something, it was all over mainstream news.

I hope no Honda workers or their families hear you sneering and sniggering at their plight like this. What a piece of work.

Yes and his first thought was not for the workers and their families, but to cover his own back.

You miss my point. But hey ho. Just for the record I do know Honda employees. Some of whom can’t wait to go. Forgetful me, I got made redundant two years ago in my late 50’s so I DO have empathy and sympathy but not with the political point scoring. Honda made this decision way back, five year plans and all that.

Indeed. Snivelling in parliament can come later if he's really in the shit.

I know next to nothing about the car industry, so probably a naïve question coming.  How feasible would it be for a manufacturer of electric vehicles to come in, modify the South Marston plant accordingly and re-start production there soon after 2021?

Surely the infrastructure there has decades of future use.  To have the site levelled and start all over would seem a terrible waste.

A really bad day for the town and it's industrial heritage.  Much, much worse still for the individuals and their families directly affected.  Politics aside, let's hope some positives will emerge, individually and civically.

Hmm, not sure it's just Honda though. Nissan's decision not to base in Sunderland, substantial cutbacks at Land Rover, all suggest that this part of a wider pattern and that the UK car industry is in a lot of trouble.

I'm sure the possiblity of something like this will be looked into... however increasingly the more likely response will be to knock it down for housing and perhaps some warehousing/distribution sheds.

You must have been plugged into the same thought process as me, possibly others too.

 My last thoughts on the subject as as expected the news had decended into a finger pointing, slanging match, political point scoring debacle amongst other things, so.

As a town and indeed a country we have over decades stepped up to the plate employment wise when faced with changing economic challenges. I personally see this bad news as an opportunity, yes, an opportunity.

Right on our doorstep is a massive, massive site. The M4 one way and the M5 the other both connected by a dual carriageway. There is a planned science park yet to built a mile away not forgetting S. Marston business park and huge distribution centres right next door. I never thought for one minute the £350m a day or whatever saving is to be made from Brexit would be spent on the NHS, indeed the plight of the Honda employees and the redevelopment of the site for engineering and other business uses is exactly where a large chunk of that and other employment investment money by the government or any other government should go. Why not a southern powerhouse? Why not dual the A420 as part of the a ‘project’ as this links onto the M40 and a little further down M25, A/M1. Not forgetting the M6 the other way. It is do able. We cannot compete with mass produced cheap shit from the Far East. What we do do well it high value and high tech manufacturing. Opportunities, opportunities, opportunities.

Not Honda Civically sadly.

That’s all well and good, but I just struggle to see that happening. For one thing, our government is incompetent, and will be far too focussed on trying to fix the Brexit debacle in the next 5-10 years to do anything about internal development.

For another thing, our workforce is traditionally unproductive when compared to foreign counterparts - we don’t have the motivation or the gumption to produce a lot

For a third thing, where are all these amazing technology companies at the moment? Why and how are they going to magically appear out of nowhere?

For a fourth thing, foreign investment will be completely disincentivized from investing in this country, until we have some form of trading relationship with the rest of the world on any vaguely favourable terms, which isn’t going to happen in at least 5-10 years.

It’s unicorn thinking, with no basis or logic behind it

We are a lazy, bloated nation with far too strong a sense of self importance that has been propped up internationally based on history and London’s banking industry. And all brexit is going to achieve is to lay that out bare for everyone to see

How about building a  regional airport on the land.
I presume the runway is still there ?

You could, but I've genuinly no idea whether its economically viable.  I know the idea is speculate to accumulate - but surely financial justification is needed before anyone will invest.

Kemble and Staverton survive I suppose.

Reckon it'll end up as houses. The dream scenario would be for BMW to consolodate on the site and expand. Don't think that's very likely...

Wow that's a lot of British people your tarring with your own brush.

How about a new Football ground for STFC? close to the new training ground in Highworth.

If  that did ever happen, it would probably be built before the training ground is completed.

Am I wrong??

We can’t build a trainline between London and Leeds. How on earth are we going to replace thousands of jobs and billions of pounds in investment?

We'll see if "they need us more than we need them" holds soon enough.

Britain has been like that for years, it hasn't miraculously happened since the referendum. I expect you're too young to remember the 70's and early 80's Dave?

It's 'acolytes' you ignoramus.

Along with his "supasticious" from the other day :) Still, his English is a bit better than SRK's (but then who's isn't?), although I doubt either of them would pass the citizenship test.

You're not wrong BD. You're totally right. Even when we do "build" something now the cost of a project is mostly succinctly higher than other places.

L-L for all the glory of a reclaimed sovereignty and exaggerated vision. It just will not happen here. As for a Southern Powerhouse (they went into administration some years back), if being comparative to the "Northern Powerhouse"...well it doesn't exist. Derby (near me), seen as one of the catalyst industrial towns, pedestalled for this will always have some industry, thanks to Rolls-Royce, Toyota, Bombardier...etc. Workers there will be starting to feel the squeeze, especially Toyota ones. They may follow suit, like Honda. The industry just isn't what it is anymore and never will be again. Chiefly because a production of a car, train carriage, turbine engine...takes parts from all over the world to be made. Long gone are days of "fully in-house". It would cost more than a bomb. Literally.

The idea of a Northern Powerhouse, accelerated by Cameron and his chum Osbourne was and has been nothing but political spin. Yes it's all nice when heads of state and cabinet ministers come and stand on a plinth, in Bay one at R-R with a backdrop of 20 grinning workers, a BR700 engine and drawings the UltraFan Technology but it's all a front because even R-R (Derby) is not the company it once was.

As BD says, many UK companies are living off past reputation. Luckily R-R are still fairly good at what they do but they cannot afford to be lazy and must focus on innovation. If not, someone else, somewhere else will. They are for the first time facing competition in Aerospace. They don't get the contracts handed to them on a plate anymore.

Also, when I saw the thread title, I immediately thought of the awesomely marketed 'Cog' advert by Honda. There haven't been many well made ads like this for a good while and that's why most don't even watch ads anymore. This gem is about 15/16 years old now.

https://youtu.be/Z57kGB-mI54

I am yeah, but i gather they were generally pretty shitty times. I can’t wait to return to them

The 80s were ace, I discovered booze, women, and punk in the 80s. Although I'll grant you the political/economic backdrop wasn't great. Looking forward to the return of Nik Kershaw-style snoods though.

What's with the we, I could do it. You on the other hand, not a hope, you could figure out how to use the shovel or what end of it to hold.

They weren't shitty.... just different.

Essentially from 1945, through to about say 85 (closure of works and arrival of Honda), you had some sort of political consensus. 

This was built around the acceptance of the "welfare state" and the need to eradicate 5 evils which had plagued Britain since the onset of the Industrial Revolution.  The 5 evils being Want, Disease, Ignorance, Squalor and Idleness.

It was broadly accepted that this would have to be paid for by a mixture of taxation on both the population and business, and would be achieved by a balance between public service and private enterprise.

Political discourse subsequently has been about the balance needed to maintain the consensus.  Essentially Labour likes to spend a bit more, Tories usually a bit less.  Atm we're at a phase where the consensus is starting to break down, and the evils are returning.

Thats why in the new world order you'd be a worker bee and he'd be, wait, need a new analogy.

The Winter of Discontent - nobody was content with that. Obviously.

All out.

Although you couldn't write any of the instructions for said shovel. At least not in English. So you'd be out shovelling shit, he'd be your boss.

I'd shovel the shit and you'd lick his arse after he's taken one.

Sir red ken. Adding the full weight of his intellect and wit. Bravo sir, bravo.

tbf that's two successive posts now that were recognisably English. The Russians must have upgraded the algorithms in their bots

Thanks

You're quick pauld, no taking that away from you.

Head of BMW has come out and said production could move to the Netherlands in the case of a no deal Brexit. News is a huge surprise, and would mean the end of the Swindon plant

Project fucking fear

Edit, that article I read from was dated 8th October 🙄

You do realise that talking down to people constantly and telling them how wrong and thick they are will likely push them further away from your point of view. Both sides literally just shouting at each other.

This forum is probably a true reflection on the whole scenario at the moment. It has resulted in people insulting others about their spelling,reading instructions shovelling shit and licking peoples asses.

Fucking pathetic

Back at the time of the referendum.... the TEF vote was more or less 2-1 for Remain.

http://thetownend.com/index.php?topic=56538.0

As such it's sort of inevitable there will be a lot of unhappy people, especially the younger element, who may feel there has in the subsequent years been no good explanation of how Brexit will improve their lives. If anything quite the reverse.

Its the state of the nation reflected (arguing about it)

Yeah, fair point I post like a bit of a bellend sometimes(often?) and can do with being a bit less reactionary

I don’t apologise for being angry about the way Brexit is going, and the wilful ignorance that is allowing the (imho) shit show of a farce to continue in the manner it is

It's sad, isn't it.  And most of us are guilty to a degree.  Inevitable outcome, I think, of a referendum result that was not far off being evenly split.

Cameron's calculation was that the referendum would settle the issue both in his party and in the country - and that probably would have happened if the winning side had polled 65% or more of the vote.  As it is, the winning side polling 52% of the vote has had precisely the reverse effect.  The country is more divided than ever.  Did Cameron really think that there would be an emphatic victory for either side?  Shocking error of judgement that we will all be paying for for many years to come.

The EU-Japan trade deal which will phase out tariffs on motor vehicles by 2027 is a obviously a large factor in the decision. However, it was reported last year that cross-border checks would cripple Honda's production cycle. Honda is even going to halt production this April for 6 days for this very reason:
https://europe.autonews.com/automakers/honda-halt-uk-production-six-days-due-brexit-logistics

So Brexit must also be a huge factor in the decision in my opinion.

Of course it is..  Anyone who says that Brexit has nothing to do with this decision (as many are, including old Teresa) is blinkered in my opinion.

It might not be the no.1 reason but Brexit would have of course come into their decision making and would have made their decision much easier.

Spot on IMO too.

The Japan/EU trade deal makes it much easier & cheaper for Japan to export to the EU; and Brexit makes it much more difficult & expensive for the UK to do the same thing.  Brexit is not the whole picture, but it's definitely part of it.

Even if Brexit had nothing to do with Honda's decision (fwiw I agree it was almost certainly a factor even if not the main one), the fact this is happening at the same time as Brexit certainly means the government will find it harder to respond to the event, focusing investment in the right places to avoid it causing significant disruption to the local economy, because they're fighting fires all over the shop and not just in Swindon.

(Of course, this assumes that but for Brexit the government would be competent and benevolent which might be stretching the point)

Irrelevant of whether Brexit is one of the main factor's in Honda decision (which it is) all of these significant changes with major businesses in the UK moving their operations and cash, along with many other factors means we have a lovely period of recession to look forward to again..

Those that didn't like austerity before are going to love it this time around, and if they didn't vote for Brexit their sights are going to be well and truly aimed them.  And they will be point blank denying it of course.

The tories have really done a great job of screwing this country up haven't they.. 

Have they? Remember the bankrupt state we were in when Labour we're removed. I'm no Tory voter but Labour were an utter disater for the UK. With regards to your comment of another reccession all the ecconomic news is the reverse. Record levels of employment, gov.borrowing down.   https://order-order.com/2019/02/19/real-wages-rise-employment-surges-unemployment-plummets/

35 days to go and we still don't know whether we'll be crashing out with no deal. We certainly don't know what trade policy the Government has towards the EU and USA etc during the 2 year withdrawal period.  Brexit plans remain undefined. After the fixed term parliament Act we cannot rule out a third General Election in 4 years.  

Wherever people stand on the issues of Brexit, we are undoubtedly led by the "Fcuk Business" party.  It's not Churchill or Dunkirk that pays for our living standards and services.  

And the alternative is Corbyn.  Brace, Brace!

Yes they have. Whataboutery about Labour does nothing to alter the fact that this government is an utter fucking shambles.

The Tories called the referendum thinking they would win, and when they didn't Cameron jumped overboard, and the tories that were part of the leave campaign shrunk back down under their rocks until somebody else stood up to be the ones in the firing line.

Now they are taking us out with no plan A, let alone plan B or C.

Yes they have!

Not trolling, but what I have found is that Honda workers cannot drive for shit. Don't indicate, can't park, don't use lights at night, lack of lane discipline.... rahhh.

to be fair that's half of Swindon

Whilst I’m no big fan of this government every labour government in history has been an utter car crash- they have left us with huge deficits/wrecked the economy and always left unemployment far higher than they inherited.

At the moment the current government are the least worst option

Only reason unemployment is so low is all these poxy zero hour contracts.
Still claiming benefits just not JSA.
 :suicide:

Source?

About 40% of families with children claim working tax credit.... it's essentially a benefit payment from the tax payer to business. There's debate to be had as to whether that's a good or bad thing.

ONS day their method of counting unemployment hasn't changed.

zero hours contracts really are shit mind.

All of which is as may be, but it's still more whataboutery. Just because you think the other lot are shit,doesn't mean the govt haven't made a compete fucking mess of things, which was my point. You can have two shit options

In-work poverty is at it's highest level in years. People have jobs, but too many of them are shit jobs that don't pay, have no security and too many people having to work two or three jobs to get by.

Very true.... however it shouldn't be forgotten, that in relative terms, you can still have a decent lifestyle.  The relativity, to which I refer stems from my father telling me what it was like in the late 20's through the 30's, up to the out break of war. 

Hunger marches, state backed violence against workers, the sort of thing McDonnell mentioned re Churchill as Home Sec at Tonypandy, a Land Fit for Heroes it wasn't.

OK relative to the 60's and much of the 70's, and the Blair years, things look a bit shit atm, but it can get a whole lot worse.

State backed violence - a bit like Thatcher and the miners

Yes and for some time now they've been doing it to some public services. Mostly the NHS and Emergency Services.

No they haven't. Don't be silly. Unless you're just trying to overstretch a metaphor. In which case, still don't be silly

I assume not particularly when one considers what happened at Trollhatten when Saab went bang and nothing has been built there since.

With car factories the bricks and mortar are only a small bit and the machinery can if necessary be moved and re-utilised elsewhere, for instance I know a guy who works at BMW in Cowley and all the line there is modular, built in Germany and imported and reassembled, if it goes wrong a guy from Germany comes over to fix it and if its not needed at Cowley it can be shifted elsewhere in the groups estate if required.

I am no fan of Blair nor Labour but for the about 10 millionth time on here, the state of the Uk economy in 2010 had very little to do with our government and a great deal to do with the US mortgage market and a world wide crash (likewise the boom before had feck all to do with our government however they tried to spin it), for someone who apparently made millions in the city your failure to understand world trade baffles me...

As for employment growing, its growing due to the manner in which the government record jobs, if you work one hour a week according to the government you are in employment even if you actually live off benefits, other countries in Europe record based on much stricter caveats and thus there figures are more realistic.   

I suspect that bit of SRK's self revelation were probably as far in the realms of fantasy as this one he told us...