Thetownend.com

Is it the worst timing?!

I've been saving for about a decade and can finally afford something but that's come at the same time as all this Brexit uncertainty and a seemingly inevitable downturn in the economy and property prices to follow.

Found a nice place and was going to start with an offer 15% below asking. But a first mortgage is scary enough, especially in this financial climate, and I don't want to act at the wrong time before a big crash. I'm currently living at home so would prefer to move out asap now that I am able. Could rent for a bit but hate chucking money away for someone else's mortgage.

Always difficult to predict, can't see house prices plummeting when net migration is always at least 250k a year, so demand is always high. Interest rates are about as low as they will be, you'll have to not stretch yourself with that in mind.

Can you afford it?
Could you afford it with higher interest rates?
Does it provide you with a better life than renting? (not just financial, but how you'd feel)

If yes, buy the thing.  If no, you'll never be ready regardless of market conditions.  The only reason a potential market crash should be of any concern is if this was an investment decision.  Nobody loses their house in a crash, they lose them when they can't afford the cost of a mortgage (so left no room for interest rate variations, or lost their job) - but then you'd be in the same boat if renting, usually.

The fact that housing tends to go up in value is a nice bonus, see at as much.

Look at how often the place has sold in the past and for what price.
Compare the current price with recent sales in the area.
Check that you can afford it.
Reach a conclusion from there.

Have got a right to buy ISA for first time buyers? Gov gives you 25% on top of your deposit (up to £12k deposit). But there is talk that this will end in November 2019.

Renting is not chucking money away; it is having a roof over your head.

Don't you pay rent "at home"?

How old are you (physically not mentally)?

Moving away from "home" will give you more "private time" ;-)

Fuck off Poxford!

Renting gives you a roof over your head but returns nothing, at least buying is an investment. My mortgage payments are cheaper than renting the equivalent house too, by quite a bit.

Buy now! Buy now!

I know of a lovely house in Wroughton for sale - I’ll throw in a STFC season ticket, too.

Anything to escape this wretched Brexit bollocks - death by a thousand cunts

No it's not. It's your home, and you should look at it like that. Your point that mortgage is usually cheaper than rent is salient, but for me Rob's 3 key questions sum it up very well:

Technically it's not, it belongs to the landlord but I'm not talking of it as a home, just the financial side. I can answer yes to Rob's points.
You have to look long term too, a mortgage can be paid off by the time retirement comes along.

Did a bit of budgeting last night and the mortgage repayments would use a little more than a third of my wage and after all bills and other costs (food, phone, car, broadband etc.) I'd have about £600 per month left. That should give me enough headroom on an interest rate rise I think? Are there not fixed rate mortgages that would negate this risk, or do they not give these out when interest rates are so consistently low?


I found the attached image which is for the property I'm looking at. She (foreign investor looking to get out of UK asap) bought it for £189k in 2016, listed it at £225k in April, reduced to £219k in July, then £199k in October. Bigger ones (2 beds) in the same block are going for proportionately more.


I do have the Help to Buy ISA. It's not new build so I can't do the shared equity loan part of help to buy but the ISA is decent. My Dad and I 'agreed' that the quickest way for me to move out was to not pay rent - I've been helping out in other ways. I'm 33.

Thanks folks, some good things to think about already.

That price history suggests its a pretty good deal, but I think Rob hit the nail on the head. For almost all first time buyers, it's a home, not an investment so if you can afford it now, protect against risk and it improves your life then go for it.

We're in a very similar boat - will be buying our first place early next year and have no idea what to expect from the market. Down here (Essex/London border) it seems everyone is trying to get their money out of the market, so heaps of properties and definitely a buyers market.

You can fix a mortgage rate for varying periods of time, the longer the term the higher the rate. Are you comparing lenders? Santander have some good rates, you could also look into their 123 current account. Might be worth looking at 2 beds, at least you could rent a room if times got tough.

The market is slow right now and prices are dropping. After Brexit is anyones guess... But renting is dead money so it's definitely something you should look into.

I had an offer accepted a few weeks back and got the mortgage offer through yesterday. We got the house for less than it was worth two years ago due to the market conditions at the moment.

We looked into Help to Buy for ages and the more we investigated the more we realised we'd probably lose quite a lot of money. I had my heart set on doing HTB but after investigating, I think we've actually done a lot better buying a slightly older house. Certainly got a lot more for our money.

Have you done the affordability check? A friend of mine is a mortgage advisor and after I thought I'd have no chance of buying anything, actually sitting down and figuring it out I realised we could get something decent (and this is in Reading where prices are ridiculous).  If you need a hand with anything feel free to PM me as I've been going through this whole process for months.

First & foremost, a house is a home.  It’s somewhere to live and build your life from.  And that’s why I can’t stand the term 'property' in this context.  Estate agents started using it decades ago, and everyone else seems to have followed…to the point you now hear people openly talking about their 'property'.  All very depressing.

But focusing on the financials, it is the biggest investment you’ll ever make - so understand the nervousness.  But you have to view it in the long run.  Whether prices shift up or down in the next 24 months is of very little consequence.  If you are going to focus on the financial aspect of the purchase, I’d be more concerned with where prices might be in 2030 or 2035.  If you agree (as most people do) that population pressure is likely to lead to sustained increase in demand over the longer term, it’s not unreasonable to assume that your financial investment shoud hold its value well over that term - regardless of what it does in the next few years.

Anecdotally, I’ve heard plenty of tales of would be home buyers holding out for the next crash - only to see it fail to materialise and then watch prices spiral up out of reach.  If you want to move and you can move, I’d move.

Oh and another thing - don't squander all your savings on a deposit. The solicitors and brokers fees will cost you a fair bit, and I'm guessing you'll need furniture when you move too!

Can you afford the mortgage if interests go up and if so by how much?
Are you confident that your job will survive any Brexit shenanigans or other economic turbulence?
Are you planning to sell it in the next 10 years?

If the answers are yes/yes/no go for it, people get very hung up with drops in price/what their hosue is worth, but if you are not planning to sell its really irrelevant and if you are any corresponding properties will have changed in price accordingly. 

Don't become a slave to your mortgage.
Have enough left over each month, after subsistence, to keep on doing the things you want to do.

I can't afford 2 beds in/near Oxford. I'm already having to compromise on some factors to find a 1-bed near the city which is in reasonable nick and I can afford the mortgage - 2 beds would stretch me too far or be a property with some major downsides. Plus I don't want a lodger.


I was budgeting about £3k for agent fees, survey, solicitor, broker etc.?


Is that different to a MIP, mortgage in principle? I did an MIP a while ago.


Yes, could adjust my budget to afford larger monthly repayments by at least £100 if not more.
Yes, my job is relatively secure, thankfully.
Would imagine I'll live there for at least 10 years, probably more.

£3K should cover you I think, but best to check with any financial or mortgage advisor you have. Yep the agreement in principle will do.

Sounds like you're good to go tbh. If you have any friends or family who know a lot about problem areas then take them if possible. Also remember a house is only worth what someone is willing to pay for it! As I think others have said - check the street the house is on and see what other similar houses are selling for, or in nearby streets. Zoopla and Rightmove are great for this.

Linked to this;

a) think carefully what survey you get, from my experience they ain't worth the paper they are written on and thus if you are comfortable go only with what the mortgage company require.

b) Use a conveyance specialist rather than solicitor as they are a hell of a lot cheaper and easier to deal with.

Swindon is a lot cheaper than Oxford, and the football teams colours are more "wearable".  I'd consider that before you buy in Oxford if I were you.

Certainly look at fixed term mortgages given your situation.  Interest rates are very low right now, my mortgage fell by over 400 quid a month in 2008, imagine it going back up that way!

What Rob said.  ;)

Being nosey here, so will understand if you'd prefer not to answer...but where is 'near the city'?  Which area(s) have you got your eye on?

Ardilles, I've been considering anywhere up to 15 miles from the city of Oxford. Ideally wanted to be in the city but there's hardly anything even near my price range and all of it is minuscule and/or run down. There was a new built flat in Barton but that was expensive and Barton a stretch too far for 'up and coming' and being a 'vibrant, cosmopolitan area'.

https://www.rightmove.co.uk/new-homes-for-sale/property-76572242.html

I looked as far as Faringdon but would hate the commute:

https://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-53305257.html

Nice cottage in Wantage:

https://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-72933746.html

A tiny one next to the Cowley Road (if you know the area)

https://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-77531159.html

But in the end I've found somewhere just outside the ring road.


a) Was going to get the homebuyers survey which is much cheaper than a full one. Recommended for new properties, and the one I am looking at was only built in 2014.

b) Thanks, will look in to that.

That's a very wide area, so fair play.  You're keeping an open mind on that.

I'm sure there used to be a time when some areas of Oxford were affordable for far more people - but with all the international money involved now, it's off the scale.  A work colleague of mine recently bought in the area between Cowley & Iffley Roads and took out a huge mortgage to do it.  Little more than 20 yrs ago, that was well known as a student area and the same houses, I'm sure, were a lot cheaper.  I don't doubt that the area has smartened up a great deal since then, but that doesn't help people like you.

I live in Oxford, just outside the ring road. Mrs RO is a estate agent and the prices on the new estate at Barton and in Barton itself are scandalous.

But even then, professionals insist on buying within the RR even though it is much cheaper outside.

Apparently Didcot has some new reasonably prices houses but you'll have to contend with the A34 if you don't commute by train  :(

For you the M40 is your enemy and the over population of this small island. If you can get to the Capitol within an hour maybe an hour and a half by trains, planes or automobiles then you are going to be up against all those nasty Tories and all those covert socialists pretending it is the nasty Tories fault that they have bought houses.

Yeah but its Didcot........

Abingdon?  :sherlock:

Whats Witney like these days (as a former Witney lad who has not set foot there for 7 years)?

The rail link between Swindon and Didcot is pretty decent these days... trains about every 15 mins, and the new Hitachi jobbers, only take about 16 mins, and that's without electric yet.

OF could hole up there and be at the CG in half an hour.

Went to play on the trains at the Railway Centre just before the clocks went back..... worth 4 hours of anybody's time.

OK I've a senior railcard, which helps, but I did idly muse as to whether there was a more expensive next stop journey on the GB network  :hmmm:

Sort of thing Talk Talk used to be good for, before his Ells stalking did for him. 

Didcot is a total dump and I wouldn't move there unless I absolutely had to.

Witney is decent but the A40 (road to and from Oxford & Witney) is an absolute disaster - has been for years, and will continue to be. They've touted new park & rides, new bus lanes, a tram, widening all or parts to allow more dual carriageway instead of single, but none of it has happened and would take years.

Abingdon is alright, I was interested in this one there:

https://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-67559365.html

It's a nice enough town.

I had my offer of £170k rejected this afternoon. Agent says they want at least "In the nineties" for it (they bought for £189k). Going to put another in tomorrow probably.

Bloody hell, we paid less than that for our 3 bed detached (with big garden) bungalow here, with ok train access to London. You need to get yourself up north....

As far as I’m aware mine have been the only bids on the house. £170k was swiftly rejected within hours but on Friday I put in an offer of £185k at about 9am. The agent rang me at 5pm Friday to say that she wanted until tomorrow (Saturday) or Monday at the latest to think about it and seek advice from her father. I had heard nothing so rang the office yesterday afternoon, to be told that someone would call me back swiftly. I’ve not heard a peep. Why?!

Because. You'll need to chase agents, say you need a response by close of business on Wednesday.

45% Estate Agents are shit
45% Estate agents are trying to drag up the price.
10% Owner dragging feet as they have another viewing

tbf, it is supposed to be their job to drag up the price. 


they are probably having a final trawl or attempt to elicit a counter bid to your's.


Don't make threats you are not prepared to implement (Ie my offer will be withdrawn at noon tomorrow) but you could feign interest with them in another property by asking for a viewing - or better a second viewing?

They’ve now made a counter-offer of £194,750 to my £185,000.

W@nkers.

Brilliant for the sellers, though. I’m waiting for our first offer.

Out of interest, you should be able to check online what the sellers really did pay for the property, ie the 189,500 business.

Unless this property ticked all your boxes, I'd be inclined to keep looking rather than consider chasing this price upwards.

It probably is the exception but don't discount the possibility that a counter-offer may not be genuine.  The "leap" here makes me feel that is unlikely to be the case now but it is remarkable how interest and even counter offers materialise as soon as you put in an offer.

A house/property is only worth what someone is willing to pay for it.

You set a budget, if it exceeds that you find another.

As an aside to this we have another place that we rent out ('cos we are capitalist bastards like that!) out of the blue we got a call from the managing agent saying that someone had contacted them to see if we wanted to sell, making a big deal that they were a cash buyer etc etc.

We are indifferent, but said well let them make us an offer and we shall see... they came back the same day and offered £119k, based on neighbouring sales its probably worth c.£145k+ we lauighed and said if he wanted to be serious we might consider and came back with £135k.

There are some bloody odd people out there, remember its not even on the market so its not like we are a willing seller, Homes under the hammer has a lot to answer for, too many people thinking they can make a killing by playing bobby big bollocks. My other half was offended, I just think the guy make a bellend of himself. 

 :hmmm:

If you genuinely want it, stick to your offer and see if they come down.

This is likely the EAs falsely tipping the price up (it's their job I know, commission, and you're a first time buyer (many think you won't have the knowledge) also they're cunts) but I'd say the counter isn't genuine.

Test their resolve and hold your ground. Even ignore them for a week. If it was genuine you'll not hear back. If it wasn't genuine then they'll likely ring you claiming "Oh Hi Mr. Goat, about the property you were interested in? Some good news, the sellers have agreed to lower the price to £189,750 (thus achieving near £190k) would you like to make an improved offer?

It can become a game of poker and generally it's only the agents who are bluffing. It's dirty but you have to play them at their game. And win.

Also if you're not fussed, just look elsewhere. After all it is a buyers market so don't be made a mug of over inflated offers. There's no billy big bollocks about it either, the EAs couldn't give a fuck if they sold you a dead squirrel and dressed it as Michelle Pfeiffer. So long as they get your money and as much of it as possible.

Is that even legal?!  Estate agents are obliged to pass details of a bid on to a seller who has engaged them.  So I would think that it follows that falsely advising buyers of bids that do not exist would fall foul of the law.  And if it doesn't, it should.

The EAs are hardly likely to come out shouting the shenanigans that goes on, in order to generate a higher price. Are they?

If the counter offer is too high for your budget, walk away.  If it's built on snow in the Sahara, they'll soon come back if they want to accept your original offer.

Remember though, the seller does not have to sell.  If they feel they can get more, they'll hold out.  not every seller is desperate - I've put a house on the market several times and withdrawn it when the right offers were not forthcoming to make it worthwhile.

Essentially what I was saying, with the added EA bashing, admittedly. However I'm never concise  :pint:

I offered £190k, they've come back with £192,500. Tempted to either stick to £190k or go to £191k and no more.

https://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-76976162.html

Much better for you

Was looking at a few coach houses; I like em.

(http://www.hillsidegypsycaravanholidays.co.uk/images/caravan/1.jpg)

?

:D

He has breakable connections to Oxford, not Gillingham.

I live in a detached coach house and for a first time buyer it’s pretty perfect - cheaper than three bed houses in the same estate but with near enough the same total floor space

Only downside is lack of garden in the summertime, but a lot of the newer ones have those added on aswell

Just sent them an email saying £190k is on the table but I'm also now looking at other options. Let's see if they give in and how long it takes.

I'd live in that  :D

Trying to squeeze every penny out. Hold your ground Goat.

a coach House is like a flat above a garage, is that right?

I’ve never understood the difference between a maisonette and an ordinary semi

Generally the same except it's usually built on top of something else. Still two storey but maisonette has to have its own entrance. Otherwise it will be classed as a flat if a shared entrance.

Yep, normally a flat above two or three garages, one of which is usually yours too. Some people convert the garage to a bedroom to make them 2 beds.

Most estate agents are the same to be honest....

must be a recent thing in new builds, always conjures up images of ye olde rest stop to me!

Browsing through the NSFW thread doesn't give you a maisonette?

Speak for yourself.....

Offer accepted!

Thanks for your help folks.

Congratulations Goat!

Brilliant news.  Many congratulations!

Do not buy anything for your new home until you have the keys. Not even when you have exchanged contracts. Trust me, I am talking from experience.

Good luck!

Only need a beer fridge mattress and telly.

I would second Sippo's good advice, Mystical.  Congratulations and good luck going forward.  Keep posting though with any queries arising.

Sippo last night I did bookmark a load of boring stuff on Amazon like a Hetty hoover and some kitchen knives, plus some more exciting stuff like a projector (there's a massive white wall in the kitchen/living room). But I won't buy anything until I've got a key!


Will probably need to turn this into an amateur DIY thread as I begin to rip up the house.

Nice one Mr. Goat! Need a hand with anything...don't come to me, I'm far too far away :D Plenty of tradesmen and handymen on here, whether you trust them is down to you. Hope the transition all goes well. The fun is all about to begin  :pint:

Eeesh Ill take this advice too. Thanks!

Good luck Mr. Goat.  As others said, to be super-safe don't buy stuff until you have the keys. On the course of changing house five times, I've had a chain broken twice causing withdrawal well into the process, and once my solicitor failed to exchange contracts when he said he would and I got building work going as previously agreed with the seller. I had to compensate the seller for the damage done until it was sold to someone else.

I couldn’t resist and bought a £9 set of spatulas and £50 worth of Ecover cleaning products. But these could be used in any house. I’ve not bought them for anywhere specific, honest, so it’s fine.

I’m early in the process of buying a house in Greece. There, once you have agreed on price, a 10% deposit is put down and then a maximum of 6 months to complete.

If I pull out I lose the deposit, if the sellers pull out I get back double my deposit. Concentrates the mind that.

I've bought 7 houses over the years, I know some DIY chains use to offer a 10% discount for home buyers for up to 6 months. Might be worth asking when the time comes.

It's taken a while but I get the keys a week on Monday! Very excited.

I won't have WiFi for a bit, is it possible that my Mac laptop can piggyback my iPhone's data connection to browse with?

Yea you can do that, pointless unless its on 4g mind

and it used to be that data limits for tethering were different to those of your main phone plan.

I say used to be, three dropped theirs. no idea on the others

Just buy a cheap dongle or even EE do portable wifi ones now. :) They are reasonable enough to tide you over and are more consistent than tethering, unless as Tans said, you have 4G.

I'm thinking it will only be a few days without internet so don't want to buy anything extra.

Gave the 4G a whizz for browsing on the laptop and it worked brilliantly.