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Swindon Town FC => Other Football Stuff => Topic started by: Private Fraser on Wednesday, May 16, 2018, 13:10:41



Title: The England Squad for the World Cup
Post by: Private Fraser on Wednesday, May 16, 2018, 13:10:41
14:04
BREAKINGEngland announce 23-man World Cup squad
Goalkeepers: Jack Butland, Jordan Pickford, Nick Pope.

Defenders: Trent Alexander-Arnold, Gary Cahill, Fabian Delph, Phil Jones, Harry Maguire, Danny Rose, John Stones, Kieran Trippier, Kyle Walker, Ashley Young.

Midfielders: Dele Alli, Eric Dier, Jordan Henderson, Jesse Lingard, Ruben Loftus-Cheek.

Forwards: Harry Kane, Marcus Rashford, Raheem Sterling, Jamie Vardy, Danny Welbeck.


Title: Re: The England Squad for the World Cup
Post by: Peter Venkman on Wednesday, May 16, 2018, 13:19:37
The only changes I would have made are Lallana for Loftus-Cheek and Tarkowski for Alexander-Arnold otherwise not surprised.


Title: Re: The England Squad for the World Cup
Post by: 4D on Wednesday, May 16, 2018, 13:30:41
I don't know half of that squad.


Title: Re: The England Squad for the World Cup
Post by: reeves4england on Wednesday, May 16, 2018, 13:35:39
I don't know half of that squad.
A lot of people say things like this, but could you replace every player you don't know with a better available player you've heard of?

Looking at the list of players who missed out, there's nobody else I'd want at the tournament.


Title: Re: The England Squad for the World Cup
Post by: Quagmire on Wednesday, May 16, 2018, 13:44:52
The only changes I would have made are Lallana for Loftus-Cheek and Tarkowski for Alexander-Arnold otherwise not surprised.
Loftus-Cheek has been superb for Palace. Iíd have Tarkowski in for Cahill and maybe Lallana for Welbeck. Other than that I agree with it.


Title: Re: The England Squad for the World Cup
Post by: 4D on Wednesday, May 16, 2018, 13:47:36
A lot of people say things like this, but could you replace every player you don't know with a better available player you've heard of?

Looking at the list of players who missed out, there's nobody else I'd want at the tournament.

You misunderstand, I genuinely haven't heard of half that squad. I have lost touch with football.


Title: Re: The England Squad for the World Cup
Post by: Peter Venkman on Wednesday, May 16, 2018, 13:48:39
Loftus-Cheek has been superb for Palace. Iíd have Tarkowski in for Cahill and maybe Lallana for Welbeck. Other than that I agree with it.
Yeah that could work too, Cahill has not had a great season but I would definately take Tarkowski and Lallana though.

I don't get the uproar about leaving out Wilshere, massively over rated IMO.


Title: Re: The England Squad for the World Cup
Post by: chalkies_shorts on Wednesday, May 16, 2018, 13:54:55
Not much you can do with the England squad. I'd make one change and that would be to bring sessegnon in as a wild wild card. Out of 23 you should be able to have one  along for the experience if nothing else. Glad to see Hart and Wilshire out. Hart has been shit for a while and I've never known what the fuss was about wilshere, very ordinary


Title: Re: The England Squad for the World Cup
Post by: reeves4england on Wednesday, May 16, 2018, 14:06:22
You misunderstand, I genuinely haven't heard of half that squad. I have lost touch with football.

Fair enough. Plenty of others saying the same thing as a criticism of the selection, as though Scholes, Shearer and Geoff Hurst should have been selected.

A lot of people are saying Shelvey should have gone, can't say I've watched him this season tbh. As for calls for Lallana, I like him as a player but he's only played 13 games all year. Even Delph has played double that.


Title: Re: The England Squad for the World Cup
Post by: RedRag on Wednesday, May 16, 2018, 14:06:38
A lot of people say things like this, but could you replace every player you don't know with a better available player you've heard of?
Not really that knowledgeable either.  Norris for Kane perhaps?  

Like Chalkie's idea of Sessignon as a wild card.  An experienced cb like Cahill is quite sensible imo.  Looks like many of us aren't too disappointed by Cahill's omission.


Title: Re: The England Squad for the World Cup
Post by: Reg Smeeton on Wednesday, May 16, 2018, 14:08:30
The only changes I would have made are Lallana for Loftus-Cheek and Tarkowski for Alexander-Arnold otherwise not surprised.

Lallana has barely played this season, 15 appearances in all comps.  I think had he been performing he'd have gone.

There really isn't too much to pick from.... if we get out of the group stage, that will be something.

As for Wilshere, he can pick a pass, something beyond our other midfield players.  Which is why Southgate is opting for the wingback system, get them to get in the crosses, and just have a couple of holders in midfield keeping it simple,


Title: Re: The England Squad for the World Cup
Post by: bamboonoshoe on Wednesday, May 16, 2018, 14:10:01
Danny Rose shouldn't be there. Welshman, Ben Davies has played in his position most of the season at Spurs. He's picked too many defenders imo. Possibly switch out Rose for another midfielder?  That's me only picking at it really. The rest is mildly encouraging, not massively inspired that Welbeck is in there though either. I'm happy Lallana, Wilshire or Hart didn't make the squad.

A nod towards the future with A-A and L-C, also great to see him pick three in form and strong keepers. Pickford would be my starter. There's competition which should give the players a bit more hunger to obtain the shirt. A starting berth in a couple of positions is not guaranteed.

While it's not a squad bursting with star quality or world class, there are some great talents in there and not just full of stalwarts picking up another cap. However a great blend of youth and experience. The "best" or "names" on paper have continually let England down over the years, when they should've done better. There is less expectation on this squad and many would say 2nd Round then out. I think they could do quite well, against expectations.

My preferred starting XI in Russia would be;

Pickford (GK

Walker (RB), Stones (CB), Maguire (CB), Delph (LB)

Lingard (RAM), Dier (DCM), Henderson (CM), Alli (LAM)
 
Kane (FW), Sterling (FW)

Gives flexibility, to put Alli into a front three. Walker and Delph can overlap as RWB/LWB respectively. Dier versatile, can slip into CB cover when Stones (or Cahill) go up for corners but also can switch to CAM and play between Henderson and the attack, when countering. There seems to be adequate options on the bench too. That's it...we're going to not win the World Cup!  :pint:


Title: Re: The England Squad for the World Cup
Post by: Reg Smeeton on Wednesday, May 16, 2018, 14:13:11
Not really that knowledgeable either.  Norris for Kane perhaps?  

Like Chalkie's idea of Sessignon as a wild card.  An experienced cb like Cahill is quite sensible imo.  Looks like many of us aren't too disappointed by Cahill's omission.

According to the OP Cahill is in.  Sessignon is best left out, no good comes from overhyping these kids, let him work with the age group sides.  Remember last summer we did really well at that level..... so it is just possible we might see some fruits from that over te next Euro/WC cycle.


Title: Re: The England Squad for the World Cup
Post by: horlock07 on Wednesday, May 16, 2018, 14:17:47
He's picked too many defenders imo. Possibly switch out Rose for another midfielder?  That's me only picking at it really.

At least 3 of those defenders can play equally well in midfield, I suspect that's why he has picked them?


Title: Re: The England Squad for the World Cup
Post by: bamboonoshoe on Wednesday, May 16, 2018, 14:19:51
According to the OP Cahill is in.  Sessignon is best left out, no good comes from overhyping these kids, let him work with the age group sides.  Remember last summer we did really well at that level..... so it is just possible we might see some fruits from that over the next Euro/WC cycle.

Agree with this in the main. I'm kind of glad Joe Gomez got injured as he likely would've been included. It's a little too soon (maybe the Euros?) and there is enough nod to the future selections with Loftus-Cheek and Alexander-Arnold. L-C could well be our wildcard this tournament.


Title: Re: The England Squad for the World Cup
Post by: bamboonoshoe on Wednesday, May 16, 2018, 14:24:14
At least 3 of those defenders can play equally well in midfield, I suspect that's why he has picked them?

Yeah here is plenty of versatility (I don't class Dier as a pure midfielder, he's like an old fashioned utility player). Still, Danny Rose is my biggest gripe in that selection. He's been poor on fitness and only came back in November I think. Davies took hus his chance and cemented that position. I'm not saying Rose is crap, he's just not who I'd have picked. Especially as the common mistake in tournament selection is picking "two players in every position". It's not needed in defence so much.


Title: Re: The England Squad for the World Cup
Post by: 4D on Wednesday, May 16, 2018, 14:29:39
Fair enough. Plenty of others saying the same thing as a criticism of the selection, as though Scholes, Shearer and Geoff Hurst should have been selected.

A lot of people are saying Shelvey should have gone, can't say I've watched him this season tbh. As for calls for Lallana, I like him as a player but he's only played 13 games all year. Even Delph has played double that.

I shall be watching, nice to have some games at sensible times. Maybe I'll learn a bit about the current England crop.


Title: Re: The England Squad for the World Cup
Post by: Reg Smeeton on Wednesday, May 16, 2018, 14:36:43
Agree with this in the main. I'm kind of glad Joe Gomez got injured as he likely would've been included. It's a little too soon (maybe the Euros?) and there is enough nod to the future selections with Loftus-Cheek and Alexander-Arnold. L-C could well be our wildcard this tournament.

Our basic problem is that there is no-one who can control a game, this isn't exactly new at international level, but has become gradually worse.  Too many foreigners in the Prem is part of it.... the lads picked are good bits and pieces players, who get made to look better by superior foreign talent around them.  Stick them all together and they're lost. The Iceland game summed it up... mental disintegratioin, players not taking responsibilty or thinking on their feet.

Take Jordan Henderson, a useful type, a good pro and hard worker, enables the talents of a Coutinho, Salah, Firmino or Mane, to flourish.  We just don't have those sort of players to complement his work, so at international level looks out of his depth.

Harry Kane is probably the only England player who'd get close to a game for the likes of Germany, France, Spain etc... it would be interesting to know how many goals he scores from assists by Erikson or Son.


Title: Re: The England Squad for the World Cup
Post by: bamboonoshoe on Wednesday, May 16, 2018, 15:10:29
Our basic problem is that there is no-one who can control a game, this isn't exactly new at international level, but has become gradually worse.  

Harry Kane is probably the only England player who'd get close to a game for the likes of Germany, France, Spain etc... it would be interesting to know how many goals he scores from assists by Erikson or Son.

Inclined to agree again, however I think Henderson can enable the likes of Sterling, Lingard and Alli. All of who are quick footed creative players and those three have had pretty good seasons. I think if we are to be more successful it will come from a step up in maturity from Stones, Henderson and Dier (he really needs to). If that core/spine can execute control then it will allow the  more erratic and creative players to flourish. Big shoulders on those three.

Interestingly, I know Son and Erikson have given several assists to Kane but Alli has also played provider too. I just found this on "Spurs Community" so it may not be 100%. I believe it's correct though. Order is Goals followed by Assists;

Harry Kane - 30 - 2
Christian Eriksen - 10 - 10
Dele Alli - 9 - 10
Heung-Min Son - 12 - 6
Ben Davies - 2 - 6
Kieran Trippier - 0 - 5
Serge Aurier - 2 - 2
Erik Lamela - 2 - 2
Moussa Sissoko - 1 - 1
Eric Dier - 0 - 2
Kyle Walker-Peters - 0 - 2
Victor Wanyama - 1 - 0
Fernando Llorente - 1 - 0
Harry Winks - 0 - 1
Danny Rose - 0 - 1
Lucas Moura - 0 - 1


Interesting that of the five Spurs players listed that have made the WC Squad. Kane only had 2 assists but obviously scored a bunch. Alli had 10 assists which matches Erikson and is four better than Son. Trippier makes a good claim with 5 assists. Dier disappoints with only 2 assists. Danny Rose as stated, I don't think he should've made the WC Squad anyway.

We can't define who gave who the assists but there is a high chance that of Alli and Eriksen's 10, and Son's 6, most of those would've had Kane on the end of them. Without digging further we could say that Alli assisted in around 30% of Kane's goals? Matching Eriksen and certainly better than Son. Trippier (for England purposes) stands out for me with his 5 assists. Maybe Southgate could be tempted to start him over Walker? It's a solid amount for a RB.


Title: Re: The England Squad for the World Cup
Post by: Reg Smeeton on Wednesday, May 16, 2018, 15:22:10
 Certainly the Kane/Dele link looks England's best bet, but it has done for a while now at international level without ever quite working.

 Walker and Walker-Peters aren't the same.

As regards Sterling, he's the very definition of someone who is made to look better by those around him.  Personally don't rate him, if he has it in him now is the chance to stand up and affect the games.  Hasn't scored for about 2 and a half years and only 2 goals for England in total from 30 odd games, so don't hold out too much hope.


Title: Re: The England Squad for the World Cup
Post by: JoeMezz on Wednesday, May 16, 2018, 15:25:22
Happy with the squad. Henderson will play midfield, and should do so with Alli against Tunisia and Panama. Dier in for more stability against Belgium.

Lingard and Sterling off Kane would work well.


Title: Re: The England Squad for the World Cup
Post by: tans on Wednesday, May 16, 2018, 15:27:18
No tom smith?


Title: Re: The England Squad for the World Cup
Post by: bamboonoshoe on Wednesday, May 16, 2018, 15:38:22
Walker and Walker-Peters aren't the same.

As regards Sterling, if he has it in him now is the chance to stand up and affect the games.  Hasn't scored for about 2 and a half years and only 2 goals for England in total from 30 odd games, so don't hold out too much hope.

Apologies RE: Walker-Peters, got lost in the data! Kyle WALKER has had about 7 assists for Man City this season.

I know how you feel about Sterling, I used to deplore the guy but he has seemingly matured and we are talking about the same player here? He has had a great season. Scoring around 22 goals and 12 assists, as a Right and Left Forward. Okay we could say better players helped him to score, that's agreeable. However assists is his own doing in the main. His discipline has improved too, only one sending off this season and a few yellows. Pass success of around 83%. 7 MotM awards with 3 in the Champions League (yes MotM awards are open for debate but he must've played pretty well to be noted). A lot of that suggests that the player has matured and improved personally.

Have to remember he was only 19 at the last World Cup. He is 23/24 isn't he? So maybe a little early. I do agree though that if he wants to be noticed on the World stage then this would be the time to do it.


Title: Re: The England Squad for the World Cup
Post by: Reg Smeeton on Wednesday, May 16, 2018, 16:15:12
Kyle WALKER has had about 7 assists for Man City this season.

Given that Man City have scored 100+ goals this season, that's probably not that great.  Walker does get up and down, which is the pre-requisite of a WB or attacking fullback, but his crossing isn't that great.  May explain why GS has tried him out at CH, in a 3. He may feel Trippier offers more as a WB.


Title: Re: The England Squad for the World Cup
Post by: Kinky Tom on Wednesday, May 16, 2018, 16:19:23
Quote from: BBC FOOTBALL
No Spurs player assisted Harry Kane more times in the Premier League in 2017-18 than Kieran Trippier (five).

Jordan Henderson has provided four assists in 10 England appearances under Gareth Southgate, this after registering two assists in his previous 28 games for the Three Lions.

In 2017-18, Raheem Sterling became the first Englishman to reach double figures for both goals and assists in a single Premier League season for Man City (18 goals, 11 assists).


Title: Re: The England Squad for the World Cup
Post by: Reg Smeeton on Wednesday, May 16, 2018, 16:29:07
Interesting about Trippier, backs up what I was saying. 

No doubt Sterling has been a cog in the Man City side, but the question is can he affect the game when surrounded by lesser talents?

He hasn't scored for England in 2 and half years.


Title: Re: The England Squad for the World Cup
Post by: Kinky Tom on Wednesday, May 16, 2018, 16:32:58
I agree with you, just a few stats that stood out, now is the time for him to demonstrate that it is largely down to him and not those more regularly around him.  I hope he can do it as he is obviously the kind of player you need to unlock defences at the highest level.


Title: Re: The England Squad for the World Cup
Post by: Reg Smeeton on Wednesday, May 16, 2018, 16:42:09
I agree with you, just a few stats that stood out, now is the time for him to demonstrate that it is largely down to him and not those more regularly around him.  I hope he can do it as he is obviously the kind of player you need to unlock defences at the highest level.

I hope he does it too. You can go out of a WC with your head held high, maybe score a few goals, or go down with a fight.

Sadly the last few tournaments we've gone out tail between legs, embarrassingly poor. Avoiding that would do.


Title: Re: The England Squad for the World Cup
Post by: Panda Paws on Wednesday, May 16, 2018, 16:43:26
No issues with the squad and think it's a good young collection of players. Only change I'd make is Wilshere for Delph, Cahill is a bit of a surprise but won't play. Tarkowski hasn't done enough and Lallana hasn't been fit at all this season.

                   Pickford
        Walker Stones Maguire
Trippier                          Young
          Henderson(c)   Dier
                    Lingard
            Kane      Sterling




Title: Re: The England Squad for the World Cup
Post by: RobertT on Wednesday, May 16, 2018, 17:34:48
If playing Kyle Walker at Centre Back is the answer, then the question must be "what do we need to do to have a team comparable to those managed by Graham Taylor?"

I'm with Reg, it's a team of bit parts bar Kane.


Title: Re: The England Squad for the World Cup
Post by: Panda Paws on Wednesday, May 16, 2018, 18:13:53
If playing Kyle Walker at Centre Back is the answer, then the question must be "what do we need to do to have a team comparable to those managed by Graham Taylor?"

I'm with Reg, it's a team of bit parts bar Kane.

Have you watched him play there for England or Man City? It worked well against Holland, and numerous occasions for City this year.


Title: Re: The England Squad for the World Cup
Post by: RobertT on Wednesday, May 16, 2018, 19:28:04
We are not going to dominate games like City have done.  Walker is pretty good in the attacking wing back role, a centre half he is not.


Title: Re: The England Squad for the World Cup
Post by: Peter Venkman on Wednesday, May 16, 2018, 19:34:37
I thought Walker looks very good at CB, probably better than at RB.

I would go with...

                Pickford
        Walker Stones Maguire
Trippier                              Young
               Alli       Dier
                  Sterling
            Kane      Vardy


Title: Re: The England Squad for the World Cup
Post by: Quagmire on Wednesday, May 16, 2018, 19:38:47
Iíd go with.....

                Pickford
       Walker Stones Maguire
Trippier                           Delph
                   Dier
        Sterling Alli Rashford
                   Kane


Title: Re: The England Squad for the World Cup
Post by: horlock07 on Thursday, May 17, 2018, 08:49:28
Henderson will play midfield, and should do so with Alli against Tunisia and Panama. Dier in for more stability against Belgium.
 

Dier will have to as I strongly suspect that Alli will manage to get himself sent off in one of those games, the petulant wanker!


Title: Re: The England Squad for the World Cup
Post by: derbystfc on Thursday, May 17, 2018, 09:40:23
According to the OP Cahill is in.  Sessignon is best left out, no good comes from overhyping these kids, let him work with the age group sides.  Remember last summer we did really well at that level..... so it is just possible we might see some fruits from that over te next Euro/WC cycle.

Agree, this was just media over hyping, the one to over hype if one should ever do, would be jaydon sancho at Borussia Dortmund, but not a word about him as he's out of sight out of mind to the media. Let the kids develop without the spotlight on them, the likes of Sessignon, Lookman, Sancho and the other kid at Man City, the Euro's in 2 years time is what they should be aiming for


Title: Re: The England Squad for the World Cup
Post by: Reg Smeeton on Thursday, May 17, 2018, 09:49:13
Agree, this was just media over hyping, the one to over hype if one should ever do, would be jaydon sancho at Borussia Dortmund, but not a word about him as he's out of sight out of mind to the media. Let the kids develop without the spotlight on them, the likes of Sessignon, Lookman, Sancho and the other kid at Man City, the Euro's in 2 years time is what they should be aiming for

Phil Foden...   yes, 100%.  We need to see more of these kids take the Sancho route. I think Lookman is in Germany on loan.

Sessignon if possible should go and play for someone like Valencia, Betis or Sevilla.  Someone like Griezmann, shows the benefits of a Spanish apprenticeship.  Coutinho benefitted from a loan spell at Espanyol


Title: Re: The England Squad for the World Cup
Post by: DV Canio on Thursday, May 17, 2018, 10:54:47
I can understand peopleís view points but Ryan Sessegnone isnít some kid who played the odd 5 minutes here and there and a early round league cup appearance.

Heís played over 100 career games...

...and by as far as Iím aware has played in every League game for Fulham this season including the play offs...

Iíd have rolled the dice and taken him


Title: Re: The England Squad for the World Cup
Post by: reeves4england on Thursday, May 17, 2018, 11:04:18
Given that these players didn't feature in the qualifying games I'm not sure taking them would have had much benefit, personally. We should be entring tournaments with a relatively settled side who are vaguely used to playing together rather than throwing in wildcards who may or may not fit.

Get players like Lookman, Sancho and Sessegnon involved after the World Cup and build for future tournaments. Come the next WC they'll still all only be early 20s.


Title: Re: The England Squad for the World Cup
Post by: derbystfc on Thursday, May 17, 2018, 12:16:55
Given that these players didn't feature in the qualifying games I'm not sure taking them would have had much benefit, personally. We should be entring tournaments with a relatively settled side who are vaguely used to playing together rather than throwing in wildcards who may or may not fit.

Get players like Lookman, Sancho and Sessegnon involved after the World Cup and build for future tournaments. Come the next WC they'll still all only be early 20s.

I would like to think this is Southgate's thinking.


Title: Re: The England Squad for the World Cup
Post by: Kinky Tom on Thursday, June 7, 2018, 19:01:08
10 changes tonight, come on football.

Why do we insist upon using female sopranos to lead the national anthem?  Sounds awful when you compare how classy the tenor singing the Costa Rican sounded.


Title: Re: The England Squad for the World Cup
Post by: tans on Thursday, June 7, 2018, 19:09:23
Why are they playing this at Elland Road?

Are they trying to make Leeds United feel relevant in football terms again


Title: Re: The England Squad for the World Cup
Post by: Sippo on Thursday, June 7, 2018, 19:36:53
Please please tell me that fucking awful band isnít going.


Title: Re: The England Squad for the World Cup
Post by: Quagmire on Thursday, June 7, 2018, 20:15:43
Why are they playing this at Elland Road?

Are they trying to make Leeds United feel relevant in football terms again
I think itís good, would prefer all England games to be around the country than Wembley.


Title: Re: The England Squad for the World Cup
Post by: Amir on Thursday, June 7, 2018, 20:22:08
Why are they playing this at Elland Road?

Are they trying to make Leeds United feel relevant in football terms again

Preparation for playing in front of crowds full of racist scumbags.