Thetownend.com

We own a house close to this area of land (the green bit!)

       https://goo.gl/maps/9fPvJfPbZiT2


There is speculation its going to be built on. This must come from somewhere.
How do we go about finding out if it is?

Any advice on fighting this should it be so would be good too - call me a NIMBY if you like but the grass is where the kids play in summer. Then it adds more access issues...

OK the local Councillor has said it is in process of "strategic housing and economic land availability assessment" - core soil sample have been taken

Anyone know WTF?!

aaaaaah, fluid situation, still need comments:

https://www.swindon.gov.uk/info/20030/planning_and_regeneration/380/view_or_make_comment_on_a_planning_application/1

thanks 4d

I'd be very very surprised if they built houses there.

me too! but this is SBC

Looks like a prime spot to me!  :D

Seriously though it sounds like someone is putting it forward for consideration within the SHLAA, which the Council basically use to identify land where housing could be built, normally in the first instance means the Council asking owners to put suitable land forward (a call for sites) and the owner identifying it on a form and filling in a pro-forma which normally includes loads of questions about access/services/ecology/heritage/deliverability (to name a few).

Once they are all in the Council assesses each one against some criteria and identify what is actually suitable and when it can be delivered (Councils have by law to have a demonstrable 5 year supply of housing land available - its a hugely contentious issue in planning circles) they then normally publish an allocations document which to be honest means that the site is likely to be built upon if they owner decides to apply for permission for instance the local one here looks like this....

http://applications.southlakeland.gov.uk/documentbrowser/DocumentBrowserFiles/local%20plan/land%20allocations/00%20Adoption/01%20Local%20Plan%20-%20Land%20Allocations%20Adopted%20Dec%202013.pdf

Thats off the top of my head, got to pop out now to pick the bairn up from school, but will have a look where they are in Swindon later (if I forget give me a prod or at least make sure the thread stays on the front page!)

Fucking Nimby's - bane of my life.  ;)

 

Thanks Horlock!


1. So are they duty bound to provide all sites over a square footage for consideration, or can they just select whatever they want? (i.e. is the land assessment a matter of process or choice)?

2. Any idea how I keep an eye out for the allocations document updates and the frequency of their release?


You sound like the ideal person to ask on how to tackle it if needs must, come on, lets make the SBC planning officers life hell. There'll be beer in it!

Thanks again

Looking at it, looks like the land is already noted as being Open Space and thus afforded some protection within the Local Plan (Policy EN3) Plan and Proposals map can be accessed via here https://www.swindon.gov.uk/info/20113/local_plan_and_planning_policy/635/swindon_borough_local_plan_2 This will obviously be a consideration within both the call for sites process, but any subsequent planning application that may or may not follow.

Details of the Call for Sites can be found here https://www.swindon.gov.uk/info/20113/local_plan_and_planning_policy/647/monitoring_and_evidence_base/5

Not sure if you can ask to be informed, I know that some Councils allow you to sign up for email alerts for Policy consultations, but not sure if Swindon do that? Normally once the Council have completed their initial assessment the document is opened up to public consultation at which point you can have your say, looks to be at a very early stage at the moment but who knows. 

Its normally choice, although people normally take the opportunity as obviously allocated land is worth probably double what unallocated land is worth - Bizarrely we have three allocated sites in our village but the owners of two of them are doing fuck all to obtain planning permission, but that might just be down to us living in Royston Vasey!

I have never done it but you can also apply for land to be allocated even if you don't own it, much as you can apply for planning permission on land you don't own.

Who actually owns the land, such open space is normally either retained by the developer just in case or palmed off to the Council at the first opportunity.


See message above as you can often sign up to stay informed, Council should publicise or members should let residents know, just a case of keeping eyes and ears open!


As a former Planning Officer (Conservation Officer actually) before I went over to the dark side, I an normally fairly sympathetic to Council Officers as its an underpaid and over stressed job for most of them, however, Swindon BC are possibly the worst authority I have ever dealt with so yeah - go get them!

thanks, will digest when home from work

Football stadium?  :sherlock:

Give it a couple of seasons and I am sure such a small plot of land will suffice.....

Does anyone know of any Great Crested Newts for sale, asking for a friend.

So, in summary I guess the plan of attack is to try and keep an eye on how things progress (try and register for updates) and take it from there if anything transpires.

Oh and call me thick, but by this do you mean "open space" status should be given consideration
  1. On deciding which land to take forwards from the SHLAA call?
(Rather than already being ignored with the land being forwarded in the call itself)

  2. If an actual planning application is received on the land.

Thanks again for your time and effort in replying.

That's another thing you can blame the EU for, GCN's are actually comparatively common in the UK (well up here at least) its an EU issue that give them the protection they have!


I would expect the assessment as part of the SHLAA to take note of that policy position and thus possibly prioritize other more suitable sites if they are available - they will have  housing requirement target they are working towards to provide the 5 year supply, likewise if an application was ever made said policy and its tests would have to be applied in determining the application, as applications have to be determined in accordance with the Local Plan unless material considerations suggest otherwise (the mantra of planning!) although members can be a bloody low unto themselves and often ignore their Officers, I will get this in now in light of Reg undoubtedly having a rant about the Tory Councillors  :pint:

If you can just let me have an address to send the invoice to that would be most appreciated.  ;)

sure, I live at my next-door neighbours.. I'll pm you.

seriously, will happily pay for your advice if the time comes :)

If it’s the bit of grass I think it is, it’s not suitable for building on in the first place is it? Doesn’t it get waterlogged every time it rains?

I don't think it gets waterlogged AFAIK.

Well get out there with your hosepipe and start waterlogging it then

I might drown the great crested newts though.

They're amphibious?

wish I read that earlier. I've just spent half an hour making little snorkel and mask sets.

:D

Yippee. Draft Shelaa rejection
https://www.swindon.gov.uk/info/20113/local_plan_and_planning_policy/647/monitoring_and_evidence_base/5



The site is located within the Swindon urban area. A small part of the site is of low or medium susceptibility
to surface water flooding. Approximately 10% of the site is both Flood Zone 2 and Flood Zone 3. The site is
located within an area of designated Open Space on the Swindon Borough Local Plan Key Policies Map,
therefore Policy EN3 applies. An open space appraisal will be required to demonstrate that loss of the site
does not adversely affect local needs and/or existing quality of open space within the area, or that
alternative provision can be made locally of equivalent or better size, quality and accessibility. A footpath
joins the site which should be retained. The site is suitable for residential development however only the
northeastern portion of the site is developable due to flood risk and access issues. Given the irregular
shape of the site, vegetation on site and access from Bryony Way it is not considered that the site could
deliver 5 or more dwellings, and therefore falls below the SHELAA site size threshold

Good stuff, however I would advise just keeping an eye on it as if it is not within the SHELAA doesn't mean that someone cannot bring it forward as a windfall site, although there are a lot of hoops they would have to jump through....

Out of interest the document should have confirmed who put it forward?


 ;) :pint:

the is a 'source' column listing "SLR"... is that who put it forward or a strategy document/process?

the rejection is only the draft recommendation, but the reasons of access and flood risk are hopefully enough to put people off in the future. hopefully.

Is Terry King still about ?

Completely off the top of my head SLR could be something like 'strategic land review' which the Council Officers may have done themselves, although at the start of this thread you suggested that soil analysis etc was being undertaken which seems a bit extreme for a speculative site, although it may have been to do with percolation testings to try and sort the flooding constraints?

Again entirely  speculatively I wonder whether the Council own the land and were trying to make a few bob from residuals?

The council definitely own the land, and I'm sure they were trying to make a few bob to bridge the budget deficit - y

You only have to look at Highworth in the last week- building 5 or 6 high value houses to generate an estimated 500K of profit - the local objections received weren't about where they are building  - just that the need is for affordable housing (which presumably wouldn't be as profitable).

Good point on the soil samples with regard to the percolation tests.

Its more confusing because a few weeks ago they also surveyed the drains and marked all the utilities around the site with colour coded scribbles on the path. You'd think that a waste of time and effort if access and flooding risk were already issues...

In any case, looks to be a no go (at least for now) so happy enough (for now).

Er, Horlock, please can you answer a question.

Had the council rejected a site under Shelaa, could they still sell it on to a developer?

Only this is "interesting", and its  not obvious which part of the site is being shiftied by the council.

https://www.swindonadvertiser.co.uk/news/17003285.councils-decision-to-sell-land-in-swindon-instead-of-build-is-approved/?ref=mr&lp=5

SN22sy:
https://www.swindon.gov.uk/info/20113/local_plan_and_planning_policy/647/monitoring_and_evidence_base/5

They said this to the area of the south


What I wondered is whether omitting from the SHELAA assesment the bit they considered  having "flood risk and access issues" could still be sold off with a developer prepared to overcome those issue.

However, if its just the area with <5 houses that was rejected, fair enough. Hard to argue against that.

bump for Mr H :)

Been on holiday, will have a look and come back to you....

Thanks Dude. Sorry to keep pestering you.

I'll email the council later to try and get clarification too.

Ultimately they can do what they like with the land and if they find a developer who is prepared to buy and thinks they can sort the issues affecting the site that would make sense from a taxpayers POV (although obviously any scheme would still need PP and be in accordance with planning policy and the requirements of the EA re flooding - thus I can see any sane developer would only buy on an option anyway, meaning that the Council would have a financial interest in the planning application), likewise however if they sell without PP and it can be developed that rather makes a mockery of all the BS about getting best value for the Council etc.

P>s - Don't let Reg see this.....

thanks Horlock. Really appreciate the time spent answering this.

fyi: The council set up a separate council owned 'housing' company, and I believe the land would be sold (with pp) using this company to give the illusion of financial interest separation from the planning department.

suspect we'll (local resident) have a fight on our hands to get this blocked, and they ultimately do what they want anyway but got to try.

but I'll try and get answers from the council on which land is proposed to be sold off first ...

I think just keep your eyes open for any consultations and keep the bastards on their toes... If anything else pops up more than happy to help as much as I can from 200 miles away!

thanks