Thetownend.com

Not got a clue meself

http://www.swindonadvertiser.co.uk/sport/swindon_town_2014/16055368.Town_s_debt_continues_to_fall/

It means someone who hasn't got a clue how to read a set of accounts has written an article talking about how some numbers of changed.

Debtors increase from £257k to £2.19m could possibly be the Ajose transfer fee owed but not paid (at the time of the accounts).

Basically...

Assets of £139k
Current liability of (£3.5m) this is current assets such as trade debtors, cash less current liabilities such as trade creditors, overdrafts.
Long term Loans (£6m)

Unless I’m misreading it (which I almost certainly am), looks like power out in net £800k in the year. Asset stripping cunt

So,

Concerning/good/insufficient data*

*delete as appropriate.

You can’t really draw any serious conclusions from these type of accounts. Not that it stops people from trying

It's the Eady money I reckon, circa £2m other debtor

Oh and debt has actually increased

What do you make of what you seen then Si? Pretty standard

Really can't tell much from what's issued. We made a profit and maybe that's the main thing to take away which the adver have sort of said but in an incorrect way.

We did get relegated too mind.

we've made a profit, but debt increased.

um, can you explain it that to us thickies...

Net liability decreased by £1.5m, Directors loan account increased but I suspect other loans reduced. Can't tell from this partial information.

I start up a business. Firstly, I need to get a mortgage to buy a premises to run the business from, so I take out a £450k mortgage to do this. All my other money goes into the property and setting it up for my business.

For trading, I start off with £0 funds but took out a loan of £100k to start up my business.
I buy product for £100k and sell it for £120k. That means I make a profit of a £20k.

But I haven't made any loan or mortgage repayments yet. So my debt went up by £550k but I made a profit of £20k.

The above is a simple and unrealistic example, but hope that explains why you can make a profit but still have more debt.

ah, I see, thanks

It is probably worth pointing out the debt has increased because Power had to put more money in

Which isn't good really is it.

Pretty standard Batch really. Shows he is funding the club when needed despite what most would have us believe 

no, I mean it shows we aren't self sustaining despite the budget cuts, and we aren't necessarily in a good position when that money becomes due to Power/don't know what the terms are.

It's better than him not funding it. He's done it as an investment and if he makes cash when flipping the club then fair enough.

Well we've improved to the tune of £1.5m, debt has decreased overall, it may have increased slightly on long term debts but reduced the current liability. Overall positive.

The level of powers funding returned to what it was two years prior.

It's like the scene in Godfather Part III when Pacino growls out "Just when I thought I was out, they drag me back in"

So have revenues dropped requiring a bigger financial plug, or did we really get relegated under the same funding as the promotion playoff year...

Clearly I'm not getting this :)

We don't know the reason for the increase in Power having to put in more money. It may be to fund player acquisitions or it may be, by 31st May 2017, the cash flow is difficult but is less so when the season starts.

Abbreviated accounts don't show enough to draw any proper conclusions. We can't determine if it's positive or negative either in my opinion.

Thanks Si

I see that Luton are "breaking the bank" in their attempts to get promotion this season, their accounts have been released for last season and they lost £31,000 a week.

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DYJtiCYW0AIjplQ.jpg)

Luton Town made a loss of £1,644,958 for 2016-2017

2015-2016: £739,710 Loss
2014-2015: £1,480,814 Loss
2013-2014: £2,961,035 Loss

Over the same period Lincoln City made a pre tax profit of £1.3m

Pre Tax Profit of £1.3m
FA Cup Commercial Revenue after Costs £2m
Historic debts Cleared
96% rise in expenditure
Turnover increased by over £3m

Turnover: £4,681,977 (£1,341,222)
Staff Costs: £2,562,406 (£1,160,855)
Profit: £1,279,598 (£418,849 Loss)
The figures in brackets are for the previous season.

FGR made a loss of 2016 loss: £2,483,624
Their total wage bill, including players, football and non-football staff, was £2.4 million.
Thats a loss of £46k per week.

Chesterfield made a loss of £506,735 for the 2016/17 financial period.

I don't really understand profit/loss accounts but that sounds like a lot for Luton to be losing and it shows what a good cup run can do to a club in Lincolns case (along with winning the division).

As with everything, extra income, whether derived from a cup run or player sales, needs to be reinvested wisely if it is to benefit the club.

All too often it disappears into some black hole with very little explanation.

Think Luton have sold a shed load of players for big money recently which should help to balance the books.

They would have to! I know Marriott went to Posh for around £500k and Vassell went to Birmingham for around £1.25m have they sold any others for big money?

Lloyd Jones joined them from Liverpool for £150k, Collins from Crawley for £300k, Jake Jervis £150k also.

I think they sold Cameron Mcgeehan to Barnsley for about a million quid.

Thanks I have not heard of him TBH.

Not had I!! I’m sure they had moved on about half a dozen players for decent money but can only see the three mentioned so I’m probably wrong.

Lost £1.7m last season, debt up to £6m

how?

It’s all debt to power (unless I’m misreading it) - loams are up £2m, amount owed to power has gone up £1.5m

ok. But are you suggesting that in order to break even we'd need to shed 1.7M  (or increase revenues).

only I can take div 4 dross on the basis of breakeven, but not that.

mind you, we are taking about Flitcrofts 'top budget' season. Would be more worrying if it happened again.

No doubt one of the accountants will be along in a minute to say we've got it wrong

The whole idea of flogging talent and running the club as a sustainable business seems to have failed. How can we afford to go up if we can't make a profit in this league? As time goes on our revenue streams will reduce and the debt will get worse.Its a case of kicking the can down the road and now LP is owed a lot of money, he's going to want it back sometime soon. Wellens may have a summer recruitment list but unless its free signings or loans we're not getting anyone. Dark days for the Town

Certainly looks like a loss of just shy of 1.8m for the year end 31st May 2018, but that does come after two years of profits, so the club is back to where it was in 2016.  We look to have made 3.4m over the two years previous to last.  Power funded the loss with a long term loan, he paid in 2.7m and took out 800k to repay other loans to himself.  The Long Term debt has increased but short term has stayed below historical levels - so we are seemingly paying people off when due and storing up the debt on Power to cover what Revenue won't by itself.

Certainly backs-up the description of last years budget as being a big enough one to expect promotion, as it is unlikely we spent 1.7m on postage! 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/47440998

Power claiming £6m input, does that include the transfer profits? If so that's bonkers money for a shit League Two team.

This is the most important bit from this

"But if in a year or two years time, when we can get these deals across the line, if I wasn't to be here then at least owning our own stadium, having a training ground, I can attract a big investor that had more money than I have, to take it to the next level and then hopefully I've left a good legacy.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p072jk6y

Full interview

In short, yes.

Thanks for the link PP.


Did you deduce that from the accounts?

Staggering.

Yes, we owe him at least 3m by end of last season and if we repeated the budget that will grow to about 4.7m.  He has repaid some earlier loans on top of that.  The basic accounts don’t give enough detail to confirm where it has been spent, but we don’t trade in a complex market, so you can take a stab it has gone largely on player wages on not fees.

oh sorry, I thought you meant 6m net, i.e. including the profits already.

so 4.7m then (assumed). still a massive loss when we thought we (I sillily) thought we were near breakeven.

mind you, if the training ground and ground purchase do go ahead it would probably be worth it

We had been trading in profit for two years before the relegation - so we are back to where we started around 2015 I guess.  I presume the issue is reduced income - you can't tell that from the limited accounts produced.

Being a football man, I’d imagine year on year failure grates with Power - especially as the footballing side seems to have been well financed.

He hasn’t helped himself, though, by overseeing poor recruitment in both players and managers. He could well have hit the jackpot with Wellens - whether by sheer luck or not.

I suppose he deserves some.

The two year period post Play Off Final is probably all on Power - got carried away with a "model" only to find out it was largely a success thanks to having dibs at Spurs.  Stayed with it and failed - sorted out the finances, but ruined the structure of the club and relationship with the fans.  Fast forward and you find yourself funding the club's attempt to recover.  I think all three Managers since have been backed - what we CAN see in the accounts suggests they have, but you've stripped the club of support in the meantime meaning there are losses to cover.  If Wellens can deliver, he might put Power back to where we were just after getting beat by Preston.

The silver lining of 'not losing money' has gone..

Lets hope Wellens can get us going again and regain some support.