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25% => The Boardroom => Topic started by: Costanza on Sunday, December 17, 2017, 09:27:14



Title: David Flitcroft: Yes or No
Post by: Costanza on Sunday, December 17, 2017, 09:27:14
I’m interested to see what the gut reaction of TEF is (both regulars and lurkers).

Try to avoid bemoaning the fact the question is being asked (unless it’s your argument as to why he should stay). I can see arguments on either side: my main issue is that the ‘wait and see’ argument has blown up in our faces plenty of times over the years.

This question is based on what you think and not what you think Lee Power would do, his history dictates standing by his man.

I genuinely believe that we’re a few signings from being able to compete for at least a Play-Off place and the majority of the signings we’ve made have, to me, clearly been ‘Flitcroft signings’.

Anyway, Yes or no?




Title: Re: David Flitcroft: Yes or No
Post by: hobodan on Sunday, December 17, 2017, 10:03:16
We don’t have a chairmen who’s willing to put money into the club (because he doesn’t have it), is likely paying himself a salary. Any new manager is going to have his hands seriously tied. We may as well give Flitcroft the season.


Title: Re: David Flitcroft: Yes or No
Post by: Private Fraser on Sunday, December 17, 2017, 10:58:58
I had hoped that this would be a single season in Div 4 and we would be back in our 'spiritual home' next season. It's not looking likely now. 

Although I'm unconvinced that Flitcroft is the man to take us back to Div 3, it's a fact that he arrived very late in the day and his summer shopping was restricted to the 'left-overs'.  On top of that, there was the fiasco of the last minute pre-season training and friendlies.

I think Power probably has to give him the January transfer window to try to improve things but it's a risky strategy in the light of what's gone before.  


Title: Re: David Flitcroft: Yes or No
Post by: Nomoreheroes on Sunday, December 17, 2017, 11:23:42
I honestly don't know.

I don't think he has been given much time. I don't know how much the current crop of players are costing the club, but if they are on high wages with the expectation that they will deliver promotion then you have to take into account the fact that the manager seems unable to get them to win at home with an unattractive style of play that has crowds dropping. Then, with chances of play promotion or play offs fading a change would seem appropriate.

If everything is being done on a shoestring and the backroom has been totally revamped and the club made more professional. If the on field goal for Flitcroft was survival and then to build next year for promotion then maybe he is meeting his objectives.

Sitting on the fence really. But, of those 2 scenarios, I suspect the first is most likely.




Title: Re: David Flitcroft: Yes or No
Post by: chalkies_shorts on Sunday, December 17, 2017, 11:41:03
If we lose the next 2 home games then home gates will drop to the 4k mark. Presumably we'd then need to cut costs as only a winning team will get people back. These are worrying times. A couple of wins however would put a big smile back on people's chops. It's finely poised but Friday was desperately shite. If I was betting man I think we'll lose them both as I can't see what can turn it around. We were 1 up against a truly shite team Friday. Then got back to 2 all and still fucked it up. Which of our players was trying to gee up the others? They all went into their shells.


Title: Re: David Flitcroft: Yes or No
Post by: Sir red ken on Sunday, December 17, 2017, 11:52:31
We can't sit back and watch 5 straight defeats become 10. The only problen is no one will want the job and LP will give it to Alan Mc and or Matty Phillips, which will continue our downward spiral. This could be the plan anyway.


Title: Re: David Flitcroft: Yes or No
Post by: ferret on Sunday, December 17, 2017, 12:03:54
We don't have a great squad, but we do have a decent one. We got through the early mini-crisis (Crawley / Barnet), which was always likely to happen in view of the huge player turnover, and by mid-November had got back on track - playoff places with a bit of form and momentum.

It turned at Grimsby - he had been spouting off beforehand about how we shouldn't have been going there on a Tuesday night, he only took 3 outfield subs (all of them defenders) and appeared to treat it as an inconvenience. We went in front twice but ended up losing cheaply. However much he can give it all the talk about "one million percent" etc, that was not the case up there, and it brought about a sharp decline, during which he appears to have rapidly lost a grip on common sense in team selection.

He has to show some humility now, admit that he's got things wrong, and get back to basics. If in 2/3 weeks time we are about 15th and without a win in 9, with Flitcroft having managed 30-odd games, it would be very difficult to argue his case.


Title: Re: David Flitcroft: Yes or No
Post by: Reg Smeeton on Sunday, December 17, 2017, 12:09:43
I had hoped that this would be a single season in Div 4 and we would be back in our 'spiritual home' next season. It's not looking likely now. 

Our spiritual home may seem a distant chimera as long as Power is the owner.

I will give him credit for binning the Swindon way as it was obvious we'd be Conference bound if that continued. However lumbering Flitters with the going for promotion stuff, was something he could have done without.  Looking at the usual late recruitment of lower league journeymen and half a team of loans, told the real story, namely we're much like most of the other sides in Div 4. That fact will start to reflect in gates at the CG, as more  :shrug: and find other things to do on  Saturday afternoon.



Title: Re: David Flitcroft: Yes or No
Post by: Ticker45 on Sunday, December 17, 2017, 12:52:55
Concerned as I am with the current situation, to remove Flitcroft before the transfer window even with bad results would to my way of thinking be the worst of possible moves. The agents are out there already touting players availability and to be without a new manager (unless there is one already in the pipeline) would make it even more difficult to encourage a player to jump into the unknown.   :hmmm:


Title: Re: David Flitcroft: Yes or No
Post by: jayohaitchenn on Sunday, December 17, 2017, 12:55:29
He's shit and his team is worse. Get rid.


Title: Re: David Flitcroft: Yes or No
Post by: sonicyouth on Sunday, December 17, 2017, 13:42:16
No point in letting him have another transfer window to recruit more average players.


Title: Re: David Flitcroft: Yes or No
Post by: Batch on Sunday, December 17, 2017, 13:48:58
Its a difficult one without knowing what the real score is
   - Do we have really have a top budget.
   - Will we have a top budget again next season (assuming, unrealistically, the gates stay the same)
   - Do we have more £££ for January

Without knowing the answers to that I'm saying no, keep. I don't think he's had a fair crack of the whip, one window is no time at all to put together a new squad. We aren't that far off.

But the football is undeniable poor. Just like last year, but the opposite in style. The square pegs round hole thing is stupid on Flitcrofts part and ..and. and.. I can see where the get rid are coming from.

We aren't in Malpas territory yet.


Title: Re: David Flitcroft: Yes or No
Post by: The Artist Formerly Known as Audrey on Sunday, December 17, 2017, 13:56:50
I’m not a great fan of Power but I cant see where he has done much wrong. He OK’d every single player Flitcroft wanted, he’s kept his nose out - so far - as everyone wanted and was upfront about expecting promotion.

Flitcroft wasn’t his first choice - or second - but at a glance he appeared to have the background to get us up. Next up, for a manager, has to be the experienced player/manager type I reckon.

I’m a little surprised Power countenanced the signing of so many journeyman type players as he must have known that even if promotion was achieved they would have to be binned next season.

I’m convinced, though, that a different manager with a different mindset will get more out of our squad than Flitcroft.

Maybe Flitcroft was told by Power just to get promoted and he’ll sort things next season, but, as things stand, many fans have had enough.


Title: Re: David Flitcroft: Yes or No
Post by: Reg Smeeton on Sunday, December 17, 2017, 14:00:41
Its a difficult one without knowing what the real score is
   - Do we have really have a top budget.
 

Power also told us that Luke was the best coach he'd seen in 25 years in the game, and that TT was the biggest signing STFC had ever made.  I don't blame him for the bs, it's what duckers and divers do, but punters don't have to believe it.


Title: Re: David Flitcroft: Yes or No
Post by: Batch on Sunday, December 17, 2017, 14:18:37
I don't believe a word that comes out of Powers mouth Reg. I need proof before belief.


Title: Re: David Flitcroft: Yes or No
Post by: DiV on Sunday, December 17, 2017, 14:30:23
I don’t know.

If we did get rid of Flitcroft who would we bring in?
I don’t think he will take us up.

The club, as a whole needs a shot in the arm. Top to bottom we’re rotton and mediocre with zero ambition. A melancholic cocktail that basically means we are done as a football club.

So, the original question. Me personally if I felt I could find a better manager Flitcroft would be gone.


Title: Re: David Flitcroft: Yes or No
Post by: Reg Smeeton on Sunday, December 17, 2017, 14:40:49
I don’t know.

If we did get rid of Flitcroft who would we bring in?
I don’t think he will take us up.

The club, as a whole needs a shot in the arm. Top to bottom we’re rotton and mediocre with zero ambition. A melancholic cocktail that basically means we are done as a football club.

So, the original question. Me personally if I felt I could find a better manager Flitcroft would be gone.

Of course, the reality is that if we did get rid, then Flitters would be just the sort of gaffer we'd need to get in.  Namely, some experience of doing OK in Div 4, cheap and available.


Title: Re: David Flitcroft: Yes or No
Post by: hefty toe on Sunday, December 17, 2017, 15:22:32
I'm not normally in favour of jettisoning managers who haven't been in the job for long, but I don't think Flitcroft is very good.  If I was Power I would be searching for replacements (Luke Garrard at Boreham Wood might be a shout and a realistic possibility).  I'm generally prejudiced against managers who don't have anything to say other than 'passion', 'commitment' and 'hard work' and I think Flitcroft falls into this camp.  Given that his family still live up north, he was never going to be a long-term solution in any event.  Clearly Flitcroft works hard and is 'committed' to the job, but he seems to lack guile, tactical acumen and a clear blueprint as to how he wants his teams to play in a technical sense.  The fact that he changes his starting XI constantly suggests that he is thrashing around and hoping to stumble upon a solution.  Also spending £350,000 on Kaiyne Woolery is not a mistake that a club like Swindon can really afford to make. I think Woolery has ability (although Swindon clearly overpaid), but he will not be much good in the 'hit and hope' format. 

Ignoring results the football has not improved over the course of the season in a collective sense.  The back four improved when Preston joined and the general fluency slightly with Elsnik, who admittedly is a big miss, but nothing else has.  We play in rigid straight lines and the movement and passing is very poor (even for League 2).  I also think Flitcroft could be making a lot more out of T.Smith, Iandolo and Goddard. 

Of course I want Swindon to win, but I want to see a little more than 'hit and hope'.  I go to games with absolutely no enthusiasm whatsoever. 


Title: Re: David Flitcroft: Yes or No
Post by: Costanza on Sunday, December 17, 2017, 15:29:57
I believe that Flitcroft’s future replacement, whenever that may be, is probably either already at the club or is known to the club.

Alan McLoughlin/Lee Peacock/Matthew Taylor/Paul Bodin

Not that I think it would necessarily would be the right decision.


Title: Re: David Flitcroft: Yes or No
Post by: jayohaitchenn on Sunday, December 17, 2017, 15:36:20
Put better by someone (can't remember who, maybe RobT), even when we look like winning it's still fucking awful to watch. If I have to watch Flitcoft's team all season I can see myself not going. I'm already leaving early. Can't remember the last time I stayed for the full 90. I hate this league and I hate watching us at the moment.


Title: Re: David Flitcroft: Yes or No
Post by: Flashheart on Sunday, December 17, 2017, 16:04:03
I didn't bother watching on Friday, just didn't fancy it.


Title: Re: David Flitcroft: Yes or No
Post by: Reg Smeeton on Sunday, December 17, 2017, 16:04:18
I believe that Flitcroft’s future replacement, whenever that may be, is probably either already at the club or is known to the club.

Alan McLoughlin/Lee Peacock/Matthew Taylor/Paul Bodin

Not that I think it would necessarily would be the right decision.

If Power's aim is the Conference then that would be the right way to go about it. Every internal in our history has taken us down , if not in their first season in their second.


Title: Re: David Flitcroft: Yes or No
Post by: RobertT on Sunday, December 17, 2017, 16:23:31
All we need to know is evident in his post match summary - bar a couple of defensive mistakes he thinks we are on the right track.  Therefore, do not expect any real changes - other than some random moving of players into positions that make no sense I guess.

I'd get rid, but that is based purely on the football being played, not even the results.  It is painful to watch.  I think Flitcroft might challenge King as my most disliked Swindon Manager, I don't count Hart.

Budget wise, some of our signings suggest it's good enough to match anyone thinking about making the play offs, so I don't think it is Di Canio sized, but I do believe it is good enough to be in the mix.  I do think we lack a few players for any other Manager to make a big difference because they just cant fit another way of playing.  So Power would need to consider that in making a decision.

I don't know who you bring in but I'd look down a league and see if there are any on the rise.


Title: Re: David Flitcroft: Yes or No
Post by: Sir red ken on Sunday, December 17, 2017, 16:38:59
If Power's aim is the Conference then that would be the right way to go about it. Every internal in our history has taken us down , if not in their first season in their second.
Absolutley correct, I can't believe fans want another from inside the club appointment when its been a disaster every time. We know what works, so at 36 I'd say Gareth Barry or someone like him to give us the lift we need. Sadly I feel this isn't going to happen as the club has no money and looks like following the Cambridge model.


Title: Re: David Flitcroft: Yes or No
Post by: THE FLASH on Sunday, December 17, 2017, 16:43:55
I don't believe a word that comes out of Powers mouth Reg. I need proof before belief.

I agree....

No facts just lots of comments made in the media.

Past record at clubs is not a great one is it?


Title: Re: David Flitcroft: Yes or No
Post by: Batch on Sunday, December 17, 2017, 16:56:35
as a matter of opinion Rob, who do you think in our squad suggests we've spent a competitive amount?

I know the reported Woolery fee, which I find a bit unlikely up front, but the rest seem like also rans to me, Taylor aside.

Just curious like, could well be so.


Title: Re: David Flitcroft: Yes or No
Post by: Reg Smeeton on Sunday, December 17, 2017, 17:03:01
as a matter of opinion Rob, who do you think in our squad suggests we've spent a competitive amount?

I know the reported Woolery fee, which I find a bit unlikely up front, but the rest seem like also rans to me, Taylor aside.

Just curious like, could well be so.

Clearly we have spent about the going rate for a middling Div 4 side, which atm is what we are. Half our best pick side could well be loan players and the rest fellas picked up out of contract at Div 3/4 sides.

You only have to think back a couple of weeks, when Flitters was talking about how he nearly went for Frank Nouble in the summer... he went to Newport




Title: Re: David Flitcroft: Yes or No
Post by: Batch on Sunday, December 17, 2017, 17:11:00
yes I suppose middling + Woolery +


Title: Re: David Flitcroft: Yes or No
Post by: RobertT on Sunday, December 17, 2017, 17:23:53
Mullin and Purkiss are also likely to be on the higher end of wages in this league, plus you have people like Norris & Vigs retained.  Overall budget is likely top 10, not top 3 or 4, but not bad.


Title: Re: David Flitcroft: Yes or No
Post by: Reg Smeeton on Sunday, December 17, 2017, 17:32:36
Mullin and Purkiss are also likely to be on the higher end of wages in this league,  

Mullin was at Morecambe, one of the lower payers in Div 4, so coming to us even as middling outfit was a step up. Purkiss the definition of lower league journeyman, don't get me wrong think they've both been good signings.  But I'm not the one complaining, I think Flitters has done OK with the budget and situation.


Title: Re: David Flitcroft: Yes or No
Post by: RobertT on Sunday, December 17, 2017, 18:09:58
But one would have likely had a small raise and the other came from several years of league one wages.    We have a group that are at least Div 4 run of the mill and a few who are likely above that, creating on overall budget above average.  Not massively, but enough that being in the play off hunt would be Expected, which is what we have been.  If you read my posts you'll see I have consistently stated I thought Play Offs were a distinct possibility even accounting for the atrocious style of play.  I'm wavering a little on that, but it should still be possible.  My entire dislike is based on how we play not where we are in the league.  It smacks of a poor Manager to me - I think you can have someone in control of our team, with our budget and play a little more effectively than we do currently.  I'd be ok with being direct, like Macari was, or compact, like Wise and Sturrock and then Di Canio.  There seemed to be a well thought out plan, I see no evidence that we should expect anything different in the remainder of this season than we have been provided with thus far, or the next season.


Title: Re: David Flitcroft: Yes or No
Post by: Batch on Sunday, December 17, 2017, 18:16:27
Quote from: RobertT
Mullin and Purkiss are also likely to be on the higher end of wages in this league, plus you have people like Norris & Vigs retained.  Overall budget is likely top 10, not top 3 or 4, but not bad.

yeah I'd agree with that. so we are performing where we should be, albeit poorly, and with a fanbase expecting top 3


Title: Re: David Flitcroft: Yes or No
Post by: Reg Smeeton on Sunday, December 17, 2017, 18:28:54
But one would have likely had a small raise and the other came from several years of league one wages.    We have a group that are at least Div 4 run of the mill and a few who are likely above that, creating on overall budget above average.  Not massively, but enough that being in the play off hunt would be Expected, which is what we have been.  If you read my posts you'll see I have consistently stated I thought Play Offs were a distinct possibility even accounting for the atrocious style of play.  I'm wavering a little on that, but it should still be possible.  My entire dislike is based on how we play not where we are in the league.  It smacks of a poor Manager to me - I think you can have someone in control of our team, with our budget and play a little more effectively than we do currently.  I'd be ok with being direct, like Macari was, or compact, like Wise and Sturrock and then Di Canio.  There seemed to be a well thought out plan, I see no evidence that we should expect anything different in the remainder of this season than we have been provided with thus far, or the next season.

All the managers you mention were provided with above average funds for Div 4, not something available to Flitters.  I know you don't like the style of play, but for me it makes sense.  We just couldn't persist with the "good" football model in Div 4, back to basics was required, the worry is of course that we're not even doing those atm... however that is something that it should be possible to put right.


Title: Re: David Flitcroft: Yes or No
Post by: pauld on Monday, December 18, 2017, 10:02:07
All the managers you mention were provided with above average funds for Div 4, not something available to Flitters.  I know you don't like the style of play, but for me it makes sense.  We just couldn't persist with the "good" football model in Div 4, back to basics was required,
It's the pendulum swinging though, we seem to have gone from one extreme to another - from trying to play too much "nice" football (and failing miserably) to a manager who is happy to spout that he doesn't care about what happens between the two boxes. There's a balance to be struck in the middle of the two extremes.


Title: Re: David Flitcroft: Yes or No
Post by: Flashheart on Monday, December 18, 2017, 10:09:56
I was willing to sacrifice style for effectiveness this season. We've sacrificed style, but we've not really seen the effectiveness.


Title: Re: David Flitcroft: Yes or No
Post by: Crispy on Monday, December 18, 2017, 10:13:28
Get rid for me. I've not been up as much as I'd like too this season, but when I have it's been truly awful.


Title: Re: David Flitcroft: Yes or No
Post by: Batch on Monday, December 18, 2017, 10:13:29
Quote from: Flashheart
I was willing to sacrifice style for effectiveness this season. We've sacrificed style, but we've not really seen the effectiveness.
bingo!


Title: Re: David Flitcroft: Yes or No
Post by: Tails on Monday, December 18, 2017, 10:14:39
The style is irrelevant. Any manager that was having this form in League Two would be met with the same scrutiny.


Title: Re: David Flitcroft: Yes or No
Post by: ferret on Monday, December 18, 2017, 10:22:27
It's the pendulum swinging though, we seem to have gone from one extreme to another - from trying to play too much "nice" football (and failing miserably) to a manager who is happy to spout that he doesn't care about what happens between the two boxes. There's a balance to be struck in the middle of the two extremes.

Absolutely. I still don't see the sense in buying into the whole "we're shit, get used to it" line.

We have a manager who does daffy things which nobody can justify. I know I go on about it, but the Taylor / Iandolo thing is the clearest of the lot. We keep losing, it keeps failing, but he keeps doing it. Bury fans, who lost 11 consecutive games with him in charge, forewarned us that this sort of thing would happen. Nobody is demanding a tactical genius - just someone with a reasonable level of common sense and humility. And I'm not seeing it.

I don't even think he talks that well - it's all just clichéd bullshit. Sure, he comes across better than Williams and Cooper, but that's not much of an achievement.


Title: Re: David Flitcroft: Yes or No
Post by: Reg Smeeton on Monday, December 18, 2017, 10:24:34
It's the pendulum swinging though, we seem to have gone from one extreme to another - from trying to play too much "nice" football (and failing miserably) to a manager who is happy to spout that he doesn't care about what happens between the two boxes. There's a balance to be struck in the middle of the two extremes.

I don't pay too much attention to the literal interpretation of Flitters post match thoughts... rather assume he means his priority is what happens in the offensive and defensive third.  With us atm it is vulnerabilty at corners and free kicks. OK you can always concede an odd goal from a set piece, but we're doing too many.

I also don't think our style is that bad, this is Div 4 we're talkng about


Title: Re: David Flitcroft: Yes or No
Post by: Crispy on Monday, December 18, 2017, 10:26:56
I also don't think our style is that bad, this is Div 4 we're talkng about

From the 4 games I've watched this season, 2 home 2 away, our 'style' is fucking dreadful.


Title: Re: David Flitcroft: Yes or No
Post by: Panda Paws on Monday, December 18, 2017, 10:28:58
Style is irrelevant - we should be competing and right now, it looks like we're sliding towards not doing that.

I've said since the start of the season, if we're not in the mix for the top 3 going into January, he goes. I've not seen anything to suggest I should change my opinion.

And anyone who is happy to sit back and accept mid-table Division 4 football in front of 4500 fans is mad.


Title: Re: David Flitcroft: Yes or No
Post by: Flashheart on Monday, December 18, 2017, 10:32:51


I also don't think our style is that bad, this is Div 4 we're talkng about

It's awful, Reg. Other teams are playing better football than we are, so the Div 4 excuse doesn't cut it.


Title: Re: David Flitcroft: Yes or No
Post by: Reg Smeeton on Monday, December 18, 2017, 10:46:02
It's awful, Reg. Other teams are playing better football than we are, so the Div 4 excuse doesn't cut it.


The only side who I've seen take us apart in a style fashion were Barnet, who going into Saturday were 24th.  The rest it's mostly been the Div 4 staple of a bit better at the %ages.

I think Barnet, got to the foot of the table due to trying to play sexy under a youth coach. We go there NYD, Akinde is now back and I'd imagine under McGhee they'll give it some grunt.

It will be interesting to see what Crewe are up to... I'm guessing they've stuck to their purist guns.


Title: Re: David Flitcroft: Yes or No
Post by: Tails on Monday, December 18, 2017, 10:51:28
It's awful, Reg. Other teams are playing better football than we are, so the Div 4 excuse doesn't cut it.


Are they? Theres no teams that have really stood out as much better than us. The best team in the league we took apart at their own gaff. The only team I can think of who I really thought "they look good" were Exeter.

This is just what happens when you have a bad run. At the height of our good run people were praising Flitcroft left, right and centre.


Title: Re: David Flitcroft: Yes or No
Post by: Flashheart on Monday, December 18, 2017, 10:58:59
You and Reg have given two examples of teams that played 'well'. That's at least 2 that are using the excuse of it being L2. Exeter are playing decent football and they're 3rd. The 'it's Div 4' excuse doesn't hold any water. I'm not trying to say it's a good league by any means, because it clearly isn't. I'm just not buying the excuse. Persistently and predictably hoofing up the field only to lose possession doesn't cut it.

The frustrating thing is that we can look half decent when we keep it down, but we don't. Like I said, though, I wouldn't be moaning if we were getting results, but we're not. We're crap AND we're losing. 5 on the bounce now.


Title: Re: David Flitcroft: Yes or No
Post by: donkey on Monday, December 18, 2017, 11:21:49
So far this season we've been truly awful in each game I've seen, with the exception of Port Vale. In the Vale game we were competent and won comfortably. Like others i can accept a sacrifice of style for success, but we are not having success, so the style really shows. This is the worst footballing side i have ever seen represent Town.


Title: Re: David Flitcroft: Yes or No
Post by: Tails on Monday, December 18, 2017, 11:27:55
You and Reg have given two examples of teams that played 'well'. That's at least 2 that are using the excuse of it being L2. Exeter are playing decent football and they're 3rd. The 'it's Div 4' excuse doesn't hold any water. I'm not trying to say it's a good league by any means, because it clearly isn't. I'm just not buying the excuse. Persistently and predictably hoofing up the field only to lose possession doesn't cut it.

The frustrating thing is that we can look half decent when we keep it down, but we don't. Like I said, though, I wouldn't be moaning if we were getting results, but we're not. We're crap AND we're losing. 5 on the bounce now.

I never used that excuse...?


Title: Re: David Flitcroft: Yes or No
Post by: Flashheart on Monday, December 18, 2017, 11:30:09
I know. Reg did. That's what I was objecting to.


Title: Re: David Flitcroft: Yes or No
Post by: pauld on Monday, December 18, 2017, 11:43:16
I don't pay too much attention to the literal interpretation of Flitters post match thoughts... rather assume he means his priority is what happens in the offensive and defensive third.  With us atm it is vulnerabilty at corners and free kicks. OK you can always concede an odd goal from a set piece, but we're doing too many.
Well clearly, he didn't mean it 100% literally or he wouldn't have any midfielders, we'd just be playing a 5-0-5 or something. But it's a clear indication that he doesn't want/like a passing game or building an attack, he is looking for defenders to win the ball and hoof it long. And I do get the "Just do what it takes to get out of the division" so I could put up with it if it works. But it isn't. We've gone from being shit at playing nice football to being shit at playing ugly football. I think FH sums it up very well:
I was willing to sacrifice style for effectiveness this season. We've sacrificed style, but we've not really seen the effectiveness.
What worries me especially about Flitcroft is that he seems to be either massively inflexible or simply lacking the wit to have a plan B. On all fronts - his in game tactics, his man-management and his overall strategy.


Title: Re: David Flitcroft: Yes or No
Post by: Tails on Monday, December 18, 2017, 11:45:10
I know. Reg did. That's what I was objecting to.

Ah, my mistake. I get his point to be honest. League Two is garbage.

I still think our form will pick up and we'll be in and around the top 7 anyway. Maybe I'm blindly confident in Flitcroft but I can see him taking us up - it's the next step I worry about.


Title: Re: David Flitcroft: Yes or No
Post by: Reg Smeeton on Monday, December 18, 2017, 11:52:47
Well clearly, he didn't mean it 100% literally or he wouldn't have any midfielders, we'd just be playing a 5-0-5 or something. But it's a clear indication that he doesn't want/like a passing game or building an attack, he is looking for defenders to win the ball and hoof it long. And I do get the "Just do what it takes to get out of the division" so I could put up with it if it works. But it isn't. We've gone from being shit at playing nice football to being shit at playing ugly football. I think FH sums it up very well:What worries me especially about Flitcroft is that he seems to be either massively inflexible or simply lacking the wit to have a plan B. On all fronts - his in game tactics, his man-management and his overall strategy.

As things stand we've won more games than we've lost, and have a positive goal difference. Only 3 sides have scored more than us and oddly of those sides only 1 has scored, a dodgy pen against us. It's obvious that things aren't great atm, certainly not helped by injuries, but I've seen enough to think that Flitters should get the window. The alternative would probably be back to Power, Brady and TT, getting in a bogof deal on more Feruz, Colkett, Dabo style acquisitions.


Title: Re: David Flitcroft: Yes or No
Post by: BambooToTheFuture on Monday, December 18, 2017, 11:56:06
Quite agree FH.

If you want the short version, just go to the bottom paragraph  :D :D :D soapy tit wank

The baffling persistence of entertaining Matt Taylor at CDM is annoying me. Flitcroft tried this when he first arrived and he looked all at sea. Almost thankfully, to injury Taylor was positioned at LB and we saw an improvement from the player which led to assists and quite simply a few extraordinary goals. The kind of contribution a certain BOO should look at if he was ever going to be professional enough to stay in the game. Why oh why on earth once "Defensive cover" was back he put Taylor in CDM is beyond me. Another issue is Knoyle. Not the lad personally but he was supposed to be our "LB" when he was fully fit and ready. Now it may seem a contradiction but if Knoyle was tipped as our no.1 LB then why did Flitcroft not draft him into the side in matches where we were getting results (e.g take off Taylor at 65/70/75 mins and let Knoyle build some match time). No he either left him on the bench or didn't make the squad at all.

For me, it's unfortunate that Elsnik has had a few injuries, while we're talking about having "no midfield" it's more because the midfield is bypassed in the style that DF wants us to play. When Elsnik is in the squad we have a tendency to keep it on the ground a little more and we get a bit more creative. He has great awareness and gets himself into great positions. Gordon is similar but not quite as good (needs his hand holding at times, so can go down with whatever the current morale is), Elsnik does seem a cut above even in this first set of pro games at a dire level. He will go on to better things. May miss out with Derby if they go up. If transitioning a player is done right he'll play in a top 6 league one team next season (on loan or maybe someone will offer Derby an early lower fee), then we'll see how he kicks on. Elsnik is integral to linking our "creativity" because he's linked well with Taylor, Preston and he's pounced on the forward's scraps. He'll make a good no.10 or "false 9"

Sorry this was meant to be about Flitcroft. My own opinion? I don't think Flitcroft has the tactical nous or man management to go any higher than L2. We are L2, right now but the squad is good enough to (when ran efficiently and to it's strengths) probably bob above the dotted line in L1. If, and this is massive. If we can attract around three half decent signings in January (just to give the rest of the squad a kick up the arse) then this league is for the taking. We know, that a squad that is 1 point above average can storm the division. The trouble is, the man at the helm doesn't seem to be aware/is too stubborn to notice when he's had a fairly decent starting XI. Quit picking your "yes" boys, expect a bit of backchat from the odd over inflated ego (this is football in the modern day, it's here to stay). If you can't manage that environment, take out the mischief makers but not at detriment to a settled squad. Discipline but without isolation. Let the individual know that you're pissed off but do it as a whole group, anonymously, so that individual knows that when he lets you down, he also gets the rest of the squad punished too (didn't want to say it but a la PDC). It's simple management. Got a bad egg or two, let them know, let the whole team know, without ever having to say who it is. Support younger prospects, back them by giving them shades of the "limelight". Instill confidence into older, more experienced heads by knowing their strengths and play them in their strongest positions. Work with them in training to concentrate on their weaknesses and level them.

I'm not a manager at any level, well except for myself (hmmm). I expect others to give me a world of shit for saying this but, just because you don't "manage" doesn't mean you can't have a better view of how to manage a team. Sometimes you need a set of eyes looking in to say "this is shit, we can be much better and we don't even need to spend any money to make improvements."

The short case:

Flitcroft doesn't have the skills to take us up. I think mid table to 10th is the best he'll manage right now. Unless he has a revelation and drops the over stubborn attitude of "I'm right, you're wrong" and admits to himself he doesn't know what his best XI is (even when he's had a semi successful system...), then unless it changes I think he should be gone by the first week of January. Time is certainly ticking for Mr Flitcroft...

I could say so much more but I'd bore the shit out of you and I probably already have.


Title: Re: David Flitcroft: Yes or No
Post by: jayohaitchenn on Monday, December 18, 2017, 12:00:39
Knoyle isn't a left back tho fam


Title: Re: David Flitcroft: Yes or No
Post by: BambooToTheFuture on Monday, December 18, 2017, 12:14:41
Knoyle isn't a left back tho fam

Well, he's a FB and he's more of a FB than Iandolo. I was talking in the sense that getting him match time. Fair enough but the simple solution would've been to put Purkiss at  LB and slot Knoyle at RB when subbing Taylor. My bad on the RB/LB front but my point was transitioning the player into the team. DF hasn't done that right and we now have a young player (he's about 20 isn't he?) with lowered confidence.


Title: Re: David Flitcroft: Yes or No
Post by: Reg Smeeton on Monday, December 18, 2017, 12:21:57
I could say so much more but I'd bore the shit out of you and I probably already have.[/b]

Knoyle is a right back, could he play left back? I don't know.

Taylor has played his career as a midfielder, when Cobblers turned us over twice last season, there he was in that position.  However I can see the decision to shift him back into midfield and then use Iandolo at left back there is a bit strange, similarly given the problems in central mid, not to give Tom Smith a run out in the Boycott game to have a look.

However, Flitters wouldn't be the first to tinker with players, well I remember Danny Williams arguably our most successful manager, sticking a youthful Rod Thomas into a sort of wide midfield role at Eastville in 66, he was terrible, we went on a 10 match run without a win. He also flirted with Joe Butler as full back.

Now bear in mind this side contained 9 of the Wembley 69, 12.

Danny then hit on the idea of Rod as a right back, with Joe holding.  Sometimes your hunches work other times not, all managers do it.

Look at Guardiola, has probably the biggest budget in world football, yet is reduced by injury to sticking in Fabian Delph a career long midfielder in at left back.


Title: Re: David Flitcroft: Yes or No
Post by: REDBUCK on Monday, December 18, 2017, 12:36:04
Making a statement like " transitioning the player into the team" loses all credibility.


Title: Re: David Flitcroft: Yes or No
Post by: BambooToTheFuture on Monday, December 18, 2017, 14:10:35
Making a statement like " transitioning the player into the team" loses all credibility.

Sorry Roebuck, how would you like me to change it to make you happy? Merry Christmas soapy tit wank  :pint: :pint: :pint:


Title: Re: David Flitcroft: Yes or No
Post by: BambooToTheFuture on Monday, December 18, 2017, 14:21:42
Knoyle is a right back, could he play left back? I don't know.

Taylor has played his career as a midfielder, when Cobblers turned us over twice last season, there he was in that position.  However I can see the decision to shift him back into midfield and then use Iandolo at left back there is a bit strange, similarly given the problems in central mid, not to give Tom Smith a run out in the Boycott game to have a look.

However, Flitters wouldn't be the first to tinker with players, well I remember Danny Williams arguably our most successful manager, sticking a youthful Rod Thomas into a sort of wide midfield role at Eastville in 66, he was terrible, we went on a 10 match run without a win. He also flirted with Joe Butler as full back.

Now bear in mind this side contained 9 of the Wembley 69, 12.

Danny then hit on the idea of Rod as a right back, with Joe holding.  Sometimes your hunches work other times not, all managers do it.

Look at Guardiola, has probably the biggest budget in world football, yet is reduced by injury to sticking in Fabian Delph a career long midfielder in at left back.

Yes RE: Taylor but it's evident with us and the current system that he works best as a Forward thinking LB.  Other than the young loans, DF has not really phased in any of our own youth prospects. As you say in Boycott Cup or the last 20 mins of a match. Why?

Also I think he needs to decide who his no.1 is (bar injury) and stick with it. There is a lot of squad unsettling by DF and most of it is unnecessary.


Title: Re: David Flitcroft: Yes or No
Post by: Reg Smeeton on Monday, December 18, 2017, 14:31:58
Yes RE: Taylor but it's evident with us and the current system that he works best as a Forward thinking LB.  Other than the young loans, DF has not really phased in any of our own youth prospects. As you say in Boycott Cup or the last 20 mins of a match. Why?

Also I think he needs to decide who his no.1 is (bar injury) and stick with it. There is a lot of squad unsettling by DF and most of it is unnecessary.

I don't know why, however we're not privy to what happens in the background.

As regards Flasher and his Exeter example... they are of course the very epitome of why you don't sack the manager.  Last season at the same stage as us 21 games in their record was W 7 D 3 L11... 24 points happily in the Conference mix. They hadn't won a single home game, which added to the previous season was something like 1 win in 17.

Their fans wanted Tisdale out... they stuck with it and ended up in the Wembley PO, the corner turned in Jan when they had a nice little run of 7 straight wins. Did they do something in the window  :hmmm: I don't know, maybe PV as our south-west correspondent can help.


Title: Re: David Flitcroft: Yes or No
Post by: singingiiiffy on Monday, December 18, 2017, 14:48:52
Reg must without a doubt want Flitcroft to stay as anything above a relegation battle is a huge welcome step :D

At the end of the day i want us up, hopefully flitcroft can turn it around. Power as a football fan can see the shit on the pitch for himself. be good to get him back on the radio and ask him about playing style etc


Title: Re: David Flitcroft: Yes or No
Post by: Reg Smeeton on Monday, December 18, 2017, 14:59:11
Reg must without a doubt want Flitcroft to stay as anything above a relegation battle is a huge welcome step :D

Some truth in that... I've zero trust in Power, he's gradually taken us backward during his tenure, I had hoped that appointing Flitcroft and in SSP's words " giving him the keys to the CG" might halt the decline.  Clearly we're now in a dangerous place, I'll be very fearful that Power will make another pig's ear of a replacement, if he opts for that. I don't think Flitters will take us down.


Title: Re: David Flitcroft: Yes or No
Post by: pauld on Monday, December 18, 2017, 15:13:24
As things stand we've won more games than we've lost, and have a positive goal difference. Only 3 sides have scored more than us and oddly of those sides only 1 has scored, a dodgy pen against us. It's obvious that things aren't great atm, certainly not helped by injuries, but I've seen enough to think that Flitters should get the window. The alternative would probably be back to Power, Brady and TT, getting in a bogof deal on more Feruz, Colkett, Dabo style acquisitions.
Think that's a fair point tbh Reg, and main reason why I wouldn't join calls for Flitcroft to go - as Town fans we should all know that whenever you find yourself saying "Well it couldn't get any worse", it very much could and probably will. Don't think Flitcroft will get us back up, but I don't think he'll take us down either. Whereas another stint of the Power Way in this division frightens the crap out of me


Title: Re: David Flitcroft: Yes or No
Post by: BambooToTheFuture on Monday, December 18, 2017, 15:17:14
I don't know why, however we're not privy to what happens in the background.

As regards Flasher and his Exeter example... they are of course the very epitome of why you don't sack the manager.  Last season at the same stage as us 21 games in their record was W 7 D 3 L11... 24 points happily in the Conference mix. They hadn't won a single home game, which added to the previous season was something like 1 win in 17.

Their fans wanted Tisdale out... they stuck with it and ended up in the Wembley PO, the corner turned in Jan when they had a nice little run of 7 straight wins. Did they do something in the window  :hmmm: I don't know, maybe PV as our south-west correspondent can help.

Hmmm but with Tisdale he's been there...a good while. I know that raises your point in case but my counter would be and it's a tad harsh "What has he actually achieved there?"  The Exeter fans must be itching to be a sustained League One team. They must look at Burton Albion and feel almost cheated. History (to date) will say that Tisdale has kept Exeter as a L2 club (with a brief foray into L1). Don't get me wrong, I like Tisdale but he is a L2 manager.


Title: Re: David Flitcroft: Yes or No
Post by: Reg Smeeton on Monday, December 18, 2017, 16:00:37
Hmmm but with Tisdale he's been there...a good while. I know that raises your point in case but my counter would be and it's a tad harsh "What has he actually achieved there?"  The Exeter fans must be itching to be a sustained League One team. They must look at Burton Albion and feel almost cheated. History (to date) will say that Tisdale has kept Exeter as a L2 club (with a brief foray into L1). Don't get me wrong, I like Tisdale but he is a L2 manager.

Exeter are a Trust run club, they spent 5 years in the Conference. There are similarities with us, namely their demise was at the hands of dodgy owners, which brought Admin and the existence of the club called into question.  They lucked out by getting Manure in the Cup taking them to a replay... that generated the funds to clear the CVA.

Their more wise heads amongst their fan base probably realise that they're doing OK, to be run sustainably and retain league football.  They've even generated enough for some modest ground redevelopment.  Outside of some wealthy individual wishing to come in and bankroll us, theirs is the sort of model we could look at if League football is to continue at the CG.


Title: Re: David Flitcroft: Yes or No
Post by: Batch on Monday, December 18, 2017, 16:28:43
be good to get him back on the radio and ask him about playing style etc

Except it wouldn't, because rightly he'd stick by his man regardless of private thoughts.

"Ya know Shaun, yeah I'd like us to play better, but so would Dave. He's got the job of getting us up and it don't really matta how he does it. Listen, we are close to the playoffs and Dave will have the tools to do the job. We know what we need and we'll do our business early in January"


Title: Re: David Flitcroft: Yes or No
Post by: RobertT on Monday, December 18, 2017, 17:52:18
I get the worry about things could be worse, they could.  Last seasons team would be lower.

My belief is that the current squad is better than we are producing and they are largely producing based on Flitcroft's demands.  Therfore my belief is that someone else could do better with what we have and I worry that Flitcroft can indeed make it worse as well.  his penchant for making his stamp on things, combined with having no actual plan beyond get it forward worries me.  The Taylor debacle, and it is one, is of his own making.  The Barnet result was largely of his own making.  Basically he is a very poor mans Sam Allardyce.  His mere presence as Manager now grates on me.

I would also state - we have been utter shit all season, in every game, in terms of style.  It's fucking awful.  I can take substance over style, but we are just playing a game of chance when we step on the pitch.  Only two games come to mind where we have looked in "control" - FGR away in the league and Dartford in the FA Cup.  Every other win has been by small margins in the game, no control.  Every defeat bar Barnet and Crawley have been the exact same the other way around.

Flitcroft moaning about defending set pieces - we got both our goals against Colchester via the same bloody route.  We create jack shit, Elsnik being the exception.  Knock it forward feed of the scraps, hope for a free kick or corner.

Tails-  I was saying we were shit and lucky when winning, we are shit and a little unlucky now we are losing.


Title: Re: David Flitcroft: Yes or No
Post by: Reg Smeeton on Monday, December 18, 2017, 18:04:47
I get the worry about things could be worse, they could.  Last seasons team would be lower.

So who do you think Power would bring in?  Who would you like to see come in? 


Title: Re: David Flitcroft: Yes or No
Post by: tans on Monday, December 18, 2017, 19:32:15
Except it wouldn't, because rightly he'd stick by his man regardless of private thoughts.

"Ya know Shaun, yeah I'd like us to play better, but so would Dave. He's got the job of getting us up and it don't really matta how he does it. Listen, we are close to the playoffs and Dave will have the tools to do the job. We know what we need and we'll do our business early in January"


Not forgetting the usual ‘we woz after him but he cost more than a tenner so i said fuck that’ ;)


Title: Re: David Flitcroft: Yes or No
Post by: digby on Tuesday, December 19, 2017, 11:53:16
I get the worry about things could be worse, they could.  Last seasons team would be lower.

My belief is that the current squad is better than we are producing and they are largely producing based on Flitcroft's demands.  Therfore my belief is that someone else could do better with what we have and I worry that Flitcroft can indeed make it worse as well.  his penchant for making his stamp on things, combined with having no actual plan beyond get it forward worries me.  The Taylor debacle, and it is one, is of his own making.  The Barnet result was largely of his own making.  Basically he is a very poor mans Sam Allardyce.  His mere presence as Manager now grates on me.

I would also state - we have been utter shit all season, in every game, in terms of style.  It's fucking awful.  I can take substance over style, but we are just playing a game of chance when we step on the pitch.  Only two games come to mind where we have looked in "control" - FGR away in the league and Dartford in the FA Cup.  Every other win has been by small margins in the game, no control.  Every defeat bar Barnet and Crawley have been the exact same the other way around.

Flitcroft moaning about defending set pieces - we got both our goals against Colchester via the same bloody route.  We create jack shit, Elsnik being the exception.  Knock it forward feed of the scraps, hope for a free kick or corner.

Tails-  I was saying we were shit and lucky when winning, we are shit and a little unlucky now we are losing.
I totally agree with all of the above ! In patches, where we played a bit of football instead of hoofball, we've looked quite decent and created a few chances. I've then thought that Flitcroft would see that too and the next game would be different but.............hoof !!   :badmood:


Title: Re: David Flitcroft: Yes or No
Post by: ferret on Tuesday, December 19, 2017, 12:29:42
I get the worry about things could be worse, they could.  Last seasons team would be lower.

My belief is that the current squad is better than we are producing and they are largely producing based on Flitcroft's demands.  Therfore my belief is that someone else could do better with what we have and I worry that Flitcroft can indeed make it worse as well.  his penchant for making his stamp on things, combined with having no actual plan beyond get it forward worries me.  The Taylor debacle, and it is one, is of his own making.  The Barnet result was largely of his own making.  Basically he is a very poor mans Sam Allardyce.  His mere presence as Manager now grates on me.

I would also state - we have been utter shit all season, in every game, in terms of style.  It's fucking awful.  I can take substance over style, but we are just playing a game of chance when we step on the pitch.  Only two games come to mind where we have looked in "control" - FGR away in the league and Dartford in the FA Cup.  Every other win has been by small margins in the game, no control.  Every defeat bar Barnet and Crawley have been the exact same the other way around.

Flitcroft moaning about defending set pieces - we got both our goals against Colchester via the same bloody route.  We create jack shit, Elsnik being the exception.  Knock it forward feed of the scraps, hope for a free kick or corner.

Tails-  I was saying we were shit and lucky when winning, we are shit and a little unlucky now we are losing.

I thought as much myself when he said that post-Colchester.

Our last 5 goals have all come from Taylor set pieces, and have (almost) all been cheap - they include a corner which went straight in, and one of those bizarre 90s video 'blooper' goals, where the Grimsby keeper completely missed a routine header back from his own player. It's another reflection of how things have swung from one extreme to the other - we didn't used to score 5 a season from set pieces.

The only other goal which we've scored during the 5 defeats is a 30 yard screamer (Anderson vs Grimsby) - so we'd be going back over a month to find our last routine goal from open play.

Again, Flitcroft cannot be exempt from criticism for this.


Title: Re: David Flitcroft: Yes or No
Post by: The Artist Formerly Known as Audrey on Tuesday, December 19, 2017, 12:41:02
The 2 goals at Yeovil, I reckon.


Title: Re: David Flitcroft: Yes or No
Post by: Reg Smeeton on Tuesday, December 19, 2017, 12:50:26
I thought as much myself when he said that post-Colchester.

Our last 5 goals have all come from Taylor set pieces, and have (almost) all been cheap - they include a corner which went straight in, and one of those bizarre 90s video 'blooper' goals, where the Grimsby keeper completely missed a routine header back from his own player. It's another reflection of how things have swung from one extreme to the other - we didn't used to score 5 a season from set pieces.

The only other goal which we've scored during the 5 defeats is a 30 yard screamer (Anderson vs Grimsby) - so we'd be going back over a month to find our last routine goal from open play.

Again, Flitcroft cannot be exempt from criticism for this.

Most goals in English football are scored by set plays or errors... look at Man City on Saturday, first goal the Turk heads in a corner, 4th goal Dier and Loris fuck up and Sterling can walk the ball in. The 2 in between there was some football, but this is reckoned by pundits to be the best team ever seen in England.


Title: Re: David Flitcroft: Yes or No
Post by: ferret on Tuesday, December 19, 2017, 12:57:33
Most goals in English football are scored by set plays or errors... look at Man City on Saturday, first goal the Turk heads in a corner, 4th goal Dier and Loris fuck up and Sterling can walk the ball in. The 2 in between there was some football, but this is reckoned by pundits to be the best team ever seen in England.

I don't think that we should be shrugging our shoulders and accepting that a standard goal from open play should be a rarity. It wasn't earlier in the season, and it wasn't last season.

The Man City comparison is not entirely relevant because they average about 3 goals a game. It's pretty obvious that not all of those goals are going to be works of art.


Title: Re: David Flitcroft: Yes or No
Post by: RobertT on Tuesday, December 19, 2017, 13:00:41
So who do you think Power would bring in?  Who would you like to see come in?  

I don't follow the leagues below us sufficiently to answer - that's the job of a Chairman.  Challinor is a possibility but his rise could be entirely down to resources rather than ability - even then you'd probably manage to get 6-12 months of a boost just from the confidence it must be giving him as a Manager.  He might not want to move, but you could at least try.

Basically someone on the rise, not someone bobbing around.  Although, to be fair, I reckon any of the other Managers in this league could do no worse, but I'd go and push for someone making their mark.


Title: Re: David Flitcroft: Yes or No
Post by: RobertT on Tuesday, December 19, 2017, 13:04:01
I don't think that we should be shrugging our shoulders and accepting that a standard goal from open play should be a rarity. It wasn't earlier in the season, and it wasn't last season.

The Man City comparison is not entirely relevant because they average about 3 goals a game. It's pretty obvious that not all of those goals are going to be works of art.

And Pep's approach is to dominate teams, press them into errors and essentially strangle the life from them to a point where such errors are likely.  The issue I always had with the Howard Wilkinson school of thought was that they miss the point on possession based teams - it isn't always about creating chances with every possession, it's often about control - the pressure builds and players make stupid decisions under pressure.  Man City probably get a lot of their goals in short passing moves, from pinching the ball back.  It's the sustained pressure that creates those quick moves - the thought that you might spend 3 minutes getting the ball back, it makes you push to try and get the ball forward more quickly to try and create a chance.


Title: Re: David Flitcroft: Yes or No
Post by: Reg Smeeton on Tuesday, December 19, 2017, 13:07:32
I don't think that we should be shrugging our shoulders and accepting that a standard goal from open play should be a rarity. It wasn't earlier in the season, and it wasn't last season.

If you think our scoring goals from open play was something we excelled at last season relative to this then you'll need some supporting evidence. Last season 3 sides scored fewer goals than us, this season 3 sides have scored more to date.


Title: Re: David Flitcroft: Yes or No
Post by: china red on Wednesday, December 20, 2017, 06:14:10
Had a dream last night that we fired Flitcroft and ended up getting relegated again.

Firing a manager after 6 months when he’s had to complete a massive rebuild of the squad is ridiculous, let’s see what he does in the January transfer window, he needs time


Title: Re: David Flitcroft: Yes or No
Post by: Wobbly Bob on Tuesday, December 26, 2017, 20:34:24
Keep him for away games and get someone else in to do the home games.

What's Flitters the elder up to these days?

 :beers:


Title: Re: David Flitcroft: Yes or No
Post by: tans on Tuesday, December 26, 2017, 20:35:12
Time to go.


Title: Re: David Flitcroft: Yes or No
Post by: Batch on Tuesday, December 26, 2017, 20:48:51
Quote from: Reg Smeeton
Quote
I don't think that we should be shrugging our shoulders and accepting that a standard goal from open play should be a rarity. It wasn't earlier in the season, and it wasn't last season.
If you think our scoring goals from open play was something we excelled at last season relative to this then you'll need some supporting evidence. Last season 3 sides scored fewer goals than us, this season 3 sides have scored more to date.
where did you find the 'open play' goal stats from?


Title: Re: David Flitcroft: Yes or No
Post by: pauld on Tuesday, December 26, 2017, 20:56:34
(https://i0.wp.com/static.someecards.com/someecards/usercards/1339426725154_9146065.png)


Title: Re: David Flitcroft: Yes or No
Post by: Legends-Lounge on Tuesday, December 26, 2017, 21:18:46
If you think our scoring goals from open play was something we excelled at last season relative to this then you'll need some supporting evidence. Last season 3 sides scored fewer goals than us, this season 3 sides have scored more to date.
where did you find the 'open play' goal stats from?
The plowman knows everything.


Title: Re: David Flitcroft: Yes or No
Post by: Peter Venkman on Wednesday, December 27, 2017, 11:11:03
I have backed Flitcroft but yesterday is the first result that has made me change my way of thinking, the next 2 games are crucial, if we lose them both then he has to go, if we lose to County heavily then he has to go.

If we win both and he gets the new signings we badly need then maybe more time.


Title: Re: David Flitcroft: Yes or No
Post by: Flashheart on Wednesday, December 27, 2017, 11:28:24
We literally have both the best away form, and the worst home form, in the league. Our away form is not far of Luton's and Notts County's home form.

Baffling.


Title: Re: David Flitcroft: Yes or No
Post by: Don Rogers Sock on Wednesday, December 27, 2017, 11:34:45
My biggest issue is with tactics . Playing those 2 in midfield at home is terrible, continuing with it at 1 and 2-0 and leaving players like goddard on the bench and making like for like changes is a disgusting decision


Title: Re: David Flitcroft: Yes or No
Post by: pauld on Wednesday, December 27, 2017, 11:36:24
My biggest issue is with tactics . Playing those 2 in midfield at home is terrible, continuing with it at 1 and 2-0 and leaving players like goddard on the bench and making like for like changes is a disgusting decision
Flitcroft is too stubborn to make changes, he has neither the mental acuity nor the flexibility required.


Title: Re: David Flitcroft: Yes or No
Post by: Reg Smeeton on Wednesday, December 27, 2017, 11:40:07
We literally have both the best away form, and the worst home form, in the league. Our away form is not far of Luton's and Notts County's home form.

Baffling.

Over the years, you get one or two clubs in a Div with a similar skewed record, and from a distance I've been mystified. Now it's us.

One obvious factor this season is we can't back up a Saturday on a Tuesday home or away.... p 5,  w 0, d 0, L 5.... f 3, a 12

Plenty of left field thoughts spring to mind for the malaise, but I do wonder about a causal link between the training ground moving from Wanborough and it turning to shit. Perhaps someone could look up the date of departure and home form collapse  :hmmm:


Title: Re: David Flitcroft: Yes or No
Post by: Ginginho on Wednesday, December 27, 2017, 11:48:49
We should try wearing the green shirt at home see if that makes a difference.


Title: Re: David Flitcroft: Yes or No
Post by: tans on Wednesday, December 27, 2017, 11:55:28
Or take the team on a 3 hours bus journey before home games


Title: Re: David Flitcroft: Yes or No
Post by: Bob's Orange on Wednesday, December 27, 2017, 12:02:37
My biggest issue is with tactics . Playing those 2 in midfield at home is terrible, continuing with it at 1 and 2-0 and leaving players like goddard on the bench and making like for like changes is a disgusting decision

Dunne for me has been very poor. Linganzi has shown glimpses of being a good signing but yeah our midfield is a big problem (although DF seems to think a midfield doesn't really matter given his previous comments).


Title: Re: David Flitcroft: Yes or No
Post by: 4D on Wednesday, December 27, 2017, 12:07:30
Perhaps a midfield isn't considered if it's just a lumped ball upfront


Title: Re: David Flitcroft: Yes or No
Post by: Don Rogers Sock on Wednesday, December 27, 2017, 12:10:04
Perhaps a midfield isn't considered if it's just a lumped ball upfront
Seen a few people say this but Dunn and Lingzani give the ball away enough times in a match to suggest if we had ball playing players we may be ok.


Title: Re: David Flitcroft: Yes or No
Post by: chalkies_shorts on Wednesday, December 27, 2017, 12:26:49
Both Dunn and Linganzi are crap. I don't think it matters what midfield they play in, they will still be crap. Even in a crap division they are crap. Even in a crap team they are crap.


Title: Re: David Flitcroft: Yes or No
Post by: Riddick on Wednesday, December 27, 2017, 12:28:43
Linganzi got caught out yesterday but has more value. He can at least pass the ball, has a goal or two in him and his physicality helps us defensively and to win second balls.

Dunne on the other hand could be the least technically able footballer i have ever seen. The bloke can barely play a 5 yard pass, he is just plain awful! Every game you can actively see Purkiss/Linganzi/Taylor see Dunne open and deliberately choose a different ball to play, its comical, out own players know there is no point giving him the ball.

Losing Elsnik to injury has been a big loss, Elsnik and Linganzi could have been okay.

Outside of recruiting some real cloggers, our generally shit tactics and insistence on playing long ball, the biggest problem i have with him is he insists on playing people out of position! He keeps trying to get Taylor in midfield when he is our only LB. He has finally worked out Woolery is best up top to exploit his pace, but to do that he's now got Anderson playing left mid, and he had a shocker there. Anderson has been best playing behind a forward. When we have natural wide players like Gordon it just makes no sense.

The one thing Flitcroft promised was commitment, effort, fight, he interviewed every player (something he made sound special) yet when we lose they are the only things he criticises. He offers no hope, no belief that it may get better in the long run, he is the worst sort of clogger.  


Title: Re: David Flitcroft: Yes or No
Post by: RobertT on Thursday, December 28, 2017, 16:07:16
Seen a few people say this but Dunn and Lingzani give the ball away enough times in a match to suggest if we had ball playing players we may be ok.

It's not just the central two that are the problem, it's the fact we keep playing centre forwards out wide.  The idea seemingly being that playing two full backs told to remain defensive and keep position should be enough with two midfielders sitting.  The issue though is that back four plus two is just not able to cope.  You simply have to either have three in midfield or use proper wide players.


Title: Re: David Flitcroft: Yes or No
Post by: Flashheart on Tuesday, February 6, 2018, 08:32:27
Wins the manager of the month award...


Title: Re: David Flitcroft: Yes or No
Post by: Batch on Tuesday, February 6, 2018, 08:34:27
nooooooooooooo.
Lump on Accrington!

Congratulations Flitcroft.



Title: Re: David Flitcroft: Yes or No
Post by: Peter Venkman on Tuesday, February 6, 2018, 08:38:46
Wins the manager of the month award...
Shit, thats a definate loss tonight then.

Well done Flitcroft for turning us around after the utter humiliation of the home defeat by Luton, fair play.


Title: Re: David Flitcroft: Yes or No
Post by: Peter Venkman on Tuesday, February 6, 2018, 08:49:30
The Adver says hes been nominated not won it? or has it leaked out already?


Title: Re: David Flitcroft: Yes or No
Post by: Flashheart on Tuesday, February 6, 2018, 08:50:33
Ooops, sorry. My fault.

Need more coffee.


Title: Re: David Flitcroft: Yes or No
Post by: Batch on Tuesday, February 6, 2018, 08:53:10
phew


Title: Re: David Flitcroft: Yes or No
Post by: Panda Paws on Tuesday, February 6, 2018, 09:13:07
Evans will win it I'd imagine.


Title: Re: David Flitcroft: Yes or No
Post by: Peter Venkman on Tuesday, February 6, 2018, 09:43:02
Ooops, sorry. My fault.

Need more coffee.
Thank fuck for that, maybe we can win tonight now :)


Title: Re: David Flitcroft: Yes or No
Post by: fittons_coaching_badge on Tuesday, February 6, 2018, 09:47:22
Flitcroft is not for me.  Now Jan has passed I'd give him the rest of the season but even if he take us up automatically I'd part company in the summer.


Title: Re: David Flitcroft: Yes or No
Post by: Panda Paws on Tuesday, February 6, 2018, 10:03:30
I really don't understand why some people are not on board with DF, seemingly irrelevant of results. What would he have to do to get unanimous support?

I was very much in the undecided camp in December when we looked like we were slipping right out of contention, but the way we've responded, mostly down to the change in shape but also signings, character... is very impressive and he should be getting more credit.


Title: Re: David Flitcroft: Yes or No
Post by: Tails on Tuesday, February 6, 2018, 10:07:45
Generally when a fanbase has decided someone is unpopular, it'll never change. Wait for the first dip in form and we'll be hounding him again.


Title: Re: David Flitcroft: Yes or No
Post by: Peter Venkman on Tuesday, February 6, 2018, 10:32:12
I think they way the players have responded to the awful defeat to Luton then he deserves a lot of credit, he is not liked by too many Town fans but hes doing an ok/fairly good job.

He makes mistakes with some unusual tactics, playing players out of their natural position and poor substitutions, his man mangement leaves a lot to be desired but we are looking in a (currently) great position to get into the autos or at least the play offs and that was always the target.

He has got players in that are not scared of a fight but at times can play some excellent football, when they are allowed, the quality of this league is really poor but the games are there to be won and at the moment we are winning more than we are drawing and losing, thats all we can ask for really even though many Town fans EXPECT us to walk the league.

He is doing ok, yes after Luton I wanted him out but that because the utter capitualation of our defence when we went a couple of goals down, that seems to have been addressed so fair play to him, he deserves credit.

If we do go back up I have no problem with him being given until at least Christmas to see how we are performing, he has signed some excellent players that play how he wants them to, not that many signings have been terrible so again fair play to him.


Title: Re: David Flitcroft: Yes or No
Post by: Bogus Dave on Tuesday, February 6, 2018, 10:33:15
I really don't understand why some people are not on board with DF, seemingly irrelevant of results. What would he have to do to get unanimous support?

I was very much in the undecided camp in December when we looked like we were slipping right out of contention, but the way we've responded, mostly down to the change in shape but also signings, character... is very impressive and he should be getting more credit.

For the same reason Tony Pulis and Sam Allardyce aren’t universally loved despite their relatively successful careers.

I’ll give him all the credit in the world for instilling a steel in the side and turning it around. But the football is fucking awful


Title: Re: David Flitcroft: Yes or No
Post by: Flashheart on Tuesday, February 6, 2018, 11:27:13
If we were playing better football, DF would not have so many detractors.


Title: Re: David Flitcroft: Yes or No
Post by: Reg Smeeton on Tuesday, February 6, 2018, 11:35:57
Generally when a fanbase has decided someone is unpopular, it'll never change. Wait for the first dip in form and we'll be hounding him again.

A fanbase doesn't really decide anything.... individuals do. In the present football environment, older traditional values are out the window, our especially younger fans, which to me is more or less everybody, see the likes of Chelsea chop successful managers at the drop of a hat and assume we should do it.

You don't even need to wait for a dip in form... in that poll, approx 2/1 wanted Flitcroft out, despite that, very obviously, given the circumstances he's been doing a decent job.

Tonight's game at Accy, is a very difficult assignment, yet should as is likely we lose, the pitchforks will be back out.

It is a puzzler to me why we rearranged the Stevenage and Accy games so close around the Lincoln game, especially when the only other Tuesday night to season's end is next Tuesday... presumably we get some say in when it's played.


Title: Re: David Flitcroft: Yes or No
Post by: Panda Paws on Tuesday, February 6, 2018, 11:42:32
If we were playing better football, DF would not have so many detractors.

What is your understanding of better football? More short passes?

We're scoring goals, look better at the back, have a midfield 2 who are actually capable, particularly going forward, and a proven striker at this level.

Lincoln play football that is perceived to be bad - far worse than us, yet they're getting record crowds with complete support for the manager, and everyone's on board.


Title: Re: David Flitcroft: Yes or No
Post by: Flashheart on Tuesday, February 6, 2018, 11:44:20
What is your understanding of better football?

Not boring.

There's been the occasional exciting finish or whatever but, generally speaking, it is boring.


Title: Re: David Flitcroft: Yes or No
Post by: Flashheart on Tuesday, February 6, 2018, 11:46:13
I actually stopped watching it was so boring. (That, and a reluctance to give my money to player).

If it's transformed since, then so be it. From what I can gather, though, it has not.


Title: Re: David Flitcroft: Yes or No
Post by: Tails on Tuesday, February 6, 2018, 11:58:09
Lincoln play football that is perceived to be bad - far worse than us, yet they're getting record crowds with complete support for the manager, and everyone's on board.

Perspective.

A few years ago we were in the L1 playoff final. They were struggling in the Conference. The cup run they've had has made them interested in football after years of being utter garbage. They are riding the wave right now.


Title: Re: David Flitcroft: Yes or No
Post by: Panda Paws on Tuesday, February 6, 2018, 11:58:43
Not boring.

There's been the occasional exciting finish or whatever but, generally speaking, it is boring.

I guess I just don't understand how people can find this team disappointing or boring, particularly in the last month. We have put in some absolute stinkers and looked rank average in November/December, but last 8 or so, Luton aside, we've looked pretty impressive. Playing 343 and in Keshi, Elsnik, Banks, Gordon (to some extent)... we're not relying on cloggers running around and kicking people, diving, winning throws to hurl into the box Like Lincoln, yet apathy still reigns to some extent.

But also I appreciate I am strange, and in the minority.


Title: Re: David Flitcroft: Yes or No
Post by: jayohaitchenn on Tuesday, February 6, 2018, 12:15:28
I guess I just don't understand how people can find this team disappointing or boring,

Similarly, I can't understand why anyone wouldn't find this team boring. It's beyond dull to watch.

Fair enough to those that are still enjoying it, and you can't argue with recent results/form but that doesn't mean everyone is enjoying it.


Title: Re: David Flitcroft: Yes or No
Post by: pauld on Tuesday, February 6, 2018, 12:21:06
I guess I just don't understand how people can find this team disappointing or boring, particularly in the last month. We have put in some absolute stinkers and looked rank average in November/December, but last 8 or so, Luton aside, we've looked pretty impressive. Playing 343 and in Keshi, Elsnik, Banks, Gordon (to some extent)... we're not relying on cloggers running around and kicking people, diving, winning throws to hurl into the box Like Lincoln, yet apathy still reigns to some extent.
That's a recent change and most of it has been away. If you don't get to away games, there's only been the second half of the Crewe game where that's been on show and we weren't great in the first half of that game. Perceptions once fixed take a while to change, we probably need to see a couple of home games before people are convinced there's been a change of style


Title: Re: David Flitcroft: Yes or No
Post by: Reg Smeeton on Tuesday, February 6, 2018, 13:02:21
But also I appreciate I am strange, and in the minority.

Nothing wrong with being in a minority. 


Title: Re: David Flitcroft: Yes or No
Post by: The Artist Formerly Known as Audrey on Tuesday, February 6, 2018, 13:58:55
I’m slightly changing my mind. Now as it appears we have binned Dunn and sticking with 3 at the back, there is certainly less hoofing. It’s no good bypassing Elsnik and Banks in midfield now - they are our game changers/winners.

Some of our play is really quite good. I’ve got my tickets for Mansfield and Wycombe and, all things being equal, will be attending on a more frequent basis. It is the time to get behind the team, irrespective of any other issues.


Title: Re: David Flitcroft: Yes or No
Post by: Peter Venkman on Tuesday, February 6, 2018, 14:11:52
Some earlier games in the season were awful entertainment, terrible football, poor opposition, often a defeat (at home) but since the Colchester home defeat (barring Luton) we have played some really good attacking football at times.

Crewe away, Coventry away, Notts County home, Crewe home and Licoln away all had spells when we played football as flowing as last season under Williams but with steel and strength and commitment from the players.


Title: Re: David Flitcroft: Yes or No
Post by: RobertT on Tuesday, February 6, 2018, 14:25:55
I can't stand watching an Allardyce team, for similar reasons I find this team hurtful to watch at times.  I completely appreciate it is a results business, and while we get results very few people will be calling for his head like I would :-)


Title: Re: David Flitcroft: Yes or No
Post by: normy on Tuesday, February 6, 2018, 14:51:18
Swindon Town Boss Dave Flitcroft is up for the Sky Bet League Two Manager of the Month Award for January.


Title: Re: David Flitcroft: Yes or No
Post by: Peter Venkman on Tuesday, February 6, 2018, 15:10:29
Swindon Town Boss Dave Flitcroft is up for the Sky Bet League Two Manager of the Month Award for January.
Check back to page 7 Normy ;)


Title: Re: David Flitcroft: Yes or No
Post by: swindonmaniac on Tuesday, February 6, 2018, 15:39:52
Not boring.

There's been the occasional exciting finish or whatever but, generally speaking, it is boring.
But how would you know,  your next posting clearly states you no longer watch. ?.


Title: Re: David Flitcroft: Yes or No
Post by: Batch on Tuesday, February 6, 2018, 16:33:24
But how would you know,  your next posting clearly states you no longer watch. ?.

i-follow?


Title: Re: David Flitcroft: Yes or No
Post by: Flashheart on Tuesday, February 6, 2018, 16:35:00
I had already addressed this in the sentence that immediately followed, but he chose to ignore it for whatever reason.


Title: Re: David Flitcroft: Yes or No
Post by: Batch on Tuesday, February 6, 2018, 16:39:39
I had already addressed this in the sentence that immediately followed, but he chose to ignore it for whatever reason.

so you did, I didn't read back. Apologies.

Quote from: FH
If it's transformed since, then so be it. From what I can gather, though, it has not.


Title: Re: David Flitcroft: Yes or No
Post by: tans on Sunday, April 22, 2018, 12:15:27
Not one to gloat, as our season has been shit, but i think its a no from Carolyn Radford :Ride On Fatbury's Lovestick:


Title: Re: David Flitcroft: Yes or No
Post by: The Artist Formerly Known as Audrey on Sunday, April 22, 2018, 12:33:01
There were 2 other tweets from her, now deleted, openly critical of Flip Flop.

Taxi!


Title: Re: David Flitcroft: Yes or No
Post by: The Artist Formerly Known as Audrey on Sunday, April 22, 2018, 12:34:29
He's shit and his team is worse. Get rid.
Enlightened sage!


Title: Re: David Flitcroft: Yes or No
Post by: Batch on Sunday, April 22, 2018, 13:08:00
Allegedly one of them.

I didn't see it myself. Did see the "you're fired, you're fired" one


Title: Re: David Flitcroft: Yes or No
Post by: horlock07 on Sunday, April 22, 2018, 13:19:32
Perhaps Flitcroft should take some note of how she got her job?


Title: Re: David Flitcroft: Yes or No
Post by: Nomoreheroes on Sunday, April 22, 2018, 20:30:11
Perhaps Flitcroft should take some note of how she got her job?
What, marrying the owner?


Title: Re: David Flitcroft: Yes or No
Post by: jayohaitchenn on Monday, April 23, 2018, 09:05:19
Enlightened sage!

Even when we were winning, I've absolutely hated this season. None of my lot have renewed this year and I'm on my 13th consecutive season ticket. Sad, but I just don't enjoy going to football any more.


Title: Re: David Flitcroft: Yes or No
Post by: Bob's Orange on Monday, April 23, 2018, 09:25:47
Does anyone know how many ST holders we had during this current season?

Surely next season is going to be down in numbers again?

I have to say I totally know where Jayo is coming from. I used to be excited to get the train to Swindon for the game. Now its just a hassle! I do hope the magic will return but I fear that may be a long way off unfortunately.


Title: Re: David Flitcroft: Yes or No
Post by: Reg Smeeton on Monday, April 23, 2018, 09:30:29
Even when we were winning, I've absolutely hated this season. None of my lot have renewed this year and I'm on my 13th consecutive season ticket. Sad, but I just don't enjoy going to football any more.

If you don't enjoy it stop going.  It's not compulsory.  You're not the first and won't be the last.


Title: David Flitcroft: Yes or No
Post by: Batch on Monday, April 23, 2018, 09:37:46
I was surprised at how well crowds have held up this season, given last season.

I think the renewal window fell at the right time this year. We were still in with a strong shout of promotion.

So I'm optimistic next year won't be as down as we fear. though I've certainly seen a fair few non renewal posts about.
----------------
giving up after 13 years isn't an easy decision to make, you always hope the fun will come back. Want to be there if it does.

Any way, not sure he didn't mean he hasn't renewed too


Title: Re: David Flitcroft: Yes or No
Post by: horlock07 on Monday, April 23, 2018, 09:43:31
But again, is part of it an age thing.... due to the fixture computer and weather I have not had to endure watching the team once this season, but with a kid and other commitments I have to confess I have got extremely meh about football completely over the last couple of years anyway.


Title: Re: David Flitcroft: Yes or No
Post by: 4D on Monday, April 23, 2018, 09:45:00
Fresh start next season. I actually think we'll get promoted next year. I've got nothing to base it on, more of a hunch.


Title: Re: David Flitcroft: Yes or No
Post by: jayohaitchenn on Monday, April 23, 2018, 09:46:45
If you don't enjoy it stop going.  It's not compulsory.  You're not the first and won't be the last.

I have.


Title: Re: David Flitcroft: Yes or No
Post by: Flashheart on Monday, April 23, 2018, 09:48:41
I wouldn't buy one.

Not in the context of a 'power out' protest, but in a 'fuck, this is boring' context. I wasn't even willing to pay a fiver to watch/listen (in part due to iFollow being a bunch of cunts). The first opportunity I have had for years to actually watch us throughout the season, and after a few games I just gave up. That also makes me quite angry when I think about it. My Saturday evenings were being taken up by something so turgid that it was soul destroying, so I just started going to the pub instead.

Power needs to inject some fun into it.



Title: Re: David Flitcroft: Yes or No
Post by: Reg Smeeton on Monday, April 23, 2018, 10:00:10
 It always amuses me how often I meet people in Swidon pubs, who say things like I used to go every week, but now I'm Man United/ Arsenal/Chelsea etc There's even a few starting to discover long lost Man City roots.... you know the sort of thing, my grandpa told me about Bert Trautmann in the 56 Cup Final and there's a  film about.


Title: Re: David Flitcroft: Yes or No
Post by: Pax Romana on Monday, April 23, 2018, 10:29:31
It always amuses me how often I meet people in Swidon pubs, who say things like I used to go every week, but now I'm Man United/ Arsenal/Chelsea etc There's even a few starting to discover long lost Man City roots.... you know the sort of thing, my grandpa told me about Bert Trautmann in the 56 Cup Final and there's a  film about.

I understand your frustration; people are often disingenuous about their reasons for stopping watching Swindon, but I completely get where Jayo is coming from. 

I still have a fondness and a passion (of sorts) for the club but I get bored watching them these days.  Only reason I renew each year is out of loyalty and the memory for the great years I spent following them around the country.  I think I've been to 5 games this season.   I'm only going to Accrington game because we're out for night afterwards and living out of town I only get to do that occasionally.  If I make it past half-time at the game I'll be pleasantly surprised.   

Renewed again but I doubt if I'll go to more next year even if they walk the league.  I think it's an age thing, you acquire other interests.


Title: Re: David Flitcroft: Yes or No
Post by: Arriba on Monday, April 23, 2018, 11:50:40
Am I right in thinking our results are as bad if not worse since Flitcroft's departure?


Title: Re: David Flitcroft: Yes or No
Post by: Flashheart on Monday, April 23, 2018, 11:56:58
Am I right in thinking our results are as bad if not worse since Flitcroft's departure?

Yes, you are right.

It may be a tad harsh to judge Brown in it, but it's hardly inspiring.


Title: Re: David Flitcroft: Yes or No
Post by: swindonmaniac on Monday, April 23, 2018, 12:06:44
Fresh start next season. 'll get promoted next year. I've got nothing to base it on, more of a hunch.
What - like we did this season ?.   :please: :please: :oops:


Title: Re: David Flitcroft: Yes or No
Post by: swindonmaniac on Monday, April 23, 2018, 12:12:11
Am I right in thinking our results are as bad if not worse since Flitcroft's departure?
They may well be,  but Flitcroft assembled his own squad,  Brown never had that privilege,  as the saying goes - you can't polish a turd.
If he's still here at the end of next season that will be the time to judge him.


Title: Re: David Flitcroft: Yes or No
Post by: horlock07 on Monday, April 23, 2018, 12:17:17
They may well be,  but Flitcroft assembled his own squad,  Brown never had that privilege,  as the saying goes - you can't polish a turd.

But you can roll it in hundreds and thousands.....


Title: Re: David Flitcroft: Yes or No
Post by: 4D on Monday, April 23, 2018, 12:22:15
It always amuses me how often I meet people in Swidon pubs, who say things like I used to go every week, but now I'm Man United/ Arsenal/Chelsea etc There's even a few starting to discover long lost Man City roots.... you know the sort of thing, my grandpa told me about Bert Trautmann in the 56 Cup Final and there's a  film about.

It's called retiring to the armchair.  :)


Title: Re: David Flitcroft: Yes or No
Post by: Bogus Dave on Monday, April 23, 2018, 17:14:44
When Brown took over I thought he was walking into a thankless task, and couldn’t be too harshly judged whatever happened.

Now that Whatever could happen has happened, his ‘achievements’ have made me change my assessment.

He took over a functional side that played god awful football but knew how to win enough games to stay relevant. He’s shown no nouse whatsoever, tried to revolutionise something when any idiot could have told you there was no time or materials to revolutionise, and shown no sign of a plan or ability to change approach to fit the needs.

A lot of that is, obviously, because he took over in March. Which is fair enough. But a good manager would be able to mound something out of these players, or at least keep them on the same track. To come in, tell them to keep doing what they’re doing, and prod them when they don’t. We’d have still been in the play offs had flitcroft stayed, on pure familiarity of system alone.

And yes, Brown may well fare better with his own squad (he can’t do much fucking worse). But his inability to arrest a slide, an inability to do the blindingly obvious in the past however many games it’s been, an inability to own up rather than blame the players - gives me very little confidence that he’d be able to arrest a slide with an ease if he were full time manager.

I wouldn’t be upset if Power said thanks-but-no-thanks and we looked elsewhere


Title: Re: David Flitcroft: Yes or No
Post by: BambooToTheFuture on Monday, April 23, 2018, 17:56:33
When Brown took over I thought he was walking into a thankless task, and couldn’t be too harshly judged whatever happened.

Now that Whatever could happen has happened, his ‘achievements’ have made me change my assessment.

He took over a functional side that played god awful football but knew how to win enough games to stay relevant. He’s shown no nouse whatsoever, tried to revolutionise something when any idiot could have told you there was no time or materials to revolutionise, and shown no sign of a plan or ability to change approach to fit the needs.

A lot of that is, obviously, because he took over in March. Which is fair enough. But a good manager would be able to mound something out of these players, or at least keep them on the same track. To come in, tell them to keep doing what they’re doing, and prod them when they don’t. We’d have still been in the play offs had flitcroft stayed, on pure familiarity of system alone.

And yes, Brown may well fare better with his own squad (he can’t do much fucking worse). But his inability to arrest a slide, an inability to do the blindingly obvious in the past however many games it’s been, an inability to own up rather than blame the players - gives me very little confidence that he’d be able to arrest a slide with an ease if he were full time manager.

I wouldn’t be upset if Power said thanks-but-no-thanks and we looked elsewhere

By the sounds of things BD, you've thrown your hat in the ring. You're a sly one.


Title: Re: David Flitcroft: Yes or No
Post by: Legends-Lounge on Monday, April 23, 2018, 18:08:08
When Brown took over I thought he was walking into a thankless task, and couldn’t be too harshly judged whatever happened.

Now that Whatever could happen has happened, his ‘achievements’ have made me change my assessment.

He took over a functional side that played god awful football but knew how to win enough games to stay relevant. He’s shown no nouse whatsoever, tried to revolutionise something when any idiot could have told you there was no time or materials to revolutionise, and shown no sign of a plan or ability to change approach to fit the needs.

A lot of that is, obviously, because he took over in March. Which is fair enough. But a good manager would be able to mound something out of these players, or at least keep them on the same track. To come in, tell them to keep doing what they’re doing, and prod them when they don’t. We’d have still been in the play offs had flitcroft stayed, on pure familiarity of system alone.

And yes, Brown may well fare better with his own squad (he can’t do much fucking worse). But his inability to arrest a slide, an inability to do the blindingly obvious in the past however many games it’s been, an inability to own up rather than blame the players - gives me very little confidence that he’d be able to arrest a slide with an ease if he were full time manager.

I wouldn’t be upset if Power said thanks-but-no-thanks and we looked elsewhere

IMHO I can see where you are coming from and some of me kind of wants to in part agree. However, for me the wheels were coming off and Flipflop saw this coming and flipped off. I suspect LP saw this too and helped him pack his bags and bought him a coffee and doughnut for his journey north pretty pronto. The pivitol game for me was the 3-0 defeat against Nam when of all people you’d bank on to get a positive result in terms of a point or three and an inspirational performance from them as interim manager was Matty Taylor who on the day was badly let down by his team mates. One would think, well I fucking do, that they’d die for him to get a result and prove a point to Flipflop, Power and any prospective manager looking from the stands. They didn’t or couldn’t. From there the die was cast and it was cast on many levels. From dressing room disunity to an abject inability, collectively and personally to dig out a result. I’m sorry Dave even a top manager like Wenger and his backroom staff couldn’t have arrested our decline to where we will eventually finish, the numbers do not lie.

As I posted yesterday, the buck stops with Power. It is up to him to sort it out or sell up and fuck off. Sadly it will be the former and the lingering death of your favourite dog will go on a bit longer. Not least because he now sees a shilling or five from the purchase of the ground and a fcuking g huge wedge from Flinty. As johnritsons toupe posted, the trust may have played into his hands by announcing their intention to buy the ground themselves.


Title: Re: David Flitcroft: Yes or No
Post by: RedRag on Monday, April 23, 2018, 18:11:51
But again, is part of it an age thing.... due to the fixture computer and weather I have not had to endure watching the team once this season, but with a kid and other commitments I have to confess I have got extremely meh about football completely over the last couple of years anyway.
It's a sad state of affairs that your kid's not demanding you take him to the games whether you're meh or not. Power sucking out all pride and pleasure.


Title: Re: David Flitcroft: Yes or No
Post by: Flashheart on Saturday, May 5, 2018, 20:16:35
(https://i.imgur.com/R1rs8ec.jpg)


Title: Re: David Flitcroft: Yes or No
Post by: pauld on Saturday, May 5, 2018, 20:23:20
He's a card, isn't he?


Title: Re: David Flitcroft: Yes or No
Post by: Legends-Lounge on Saturday, May 5, 2018, 20:25:32
He's a card, isn't he?
Ace?


Title: Re: David Flitcroft: Yes or No
Post by: Flashheart on Saturday, May 5, 2018, 20:30:54
Luke Willams could tick a few of those boxes. Or at least you could see that he was trying to.

I don't see how Flitcroft could tick a single one.


Title: Re: David Flitcroft: Yes or No
Post by: The Artist Formerly Known as Audrey on Saturday, May 5, 2018, 20:44:16
 Flitcroft confirmed to stay in charge next season, armed with a sizeable budget.

Well, that’s one club we won’t have to worry about next season.


Title: Re: David Flitcroft: Yes or No
Post by: OOH! SHAUN TAYLOR on Saturday, May 5, 2018, 20:59:56
(https://i.imgur.com/R1rs8ec.jpg)
He really is a bullshitting cunt of the highest order.


Title: Re: David Flitcroft: Yes or No
Post by: 4D on Saturday, May 5, 2018, 21:10:23
Think I'll bookmark stagsnet for next season  :Ride On Fatbury's Lovestick:


Title: Re: David Flitcroft: Yes or No
Post by: donkey on Saturday, May 5, 2018, 21:31:36
Ace?

Ace hole?


Title: Re: David Flitcroft: Yes or No
Post by: ferret on Sunday, May 6, 2018, 05:58:24
Mansfield have got a worse points per game record under Flitcroft than we’ve got under Brown. They were 2 points off the automatics when he went in, and, 12 games later, they’re not even within 2 points of the playoffs. It’s pathetic. And the best he can do is argue that the team which he inherited is not a ‘Dave Flitcroft’ team. Well, I suppose he’s right about that.

Somehow, there are people on here who still don’t get why we laboured through much of the season. It’s not because we’re destined for eternal years of misery and despair in non-league. It’s because our manager didn’t have a fucking clue.


Title: Re: David Flitcroft: Yes or No
Post by: Legends-Lounge on Sunday, May 6, 2018, 07:16:09
Ace hole?
Pretty much.

My Mansfield supporting mate called it a while back when he said the final positions that are now confirmed would be exactly as they are are. Yet when we were sat together at Mansfield in their main stand with me fighting to keep myself in check he said pretty much “you’re going up if you can play like that for most of the season, you’ve done a number on us big time” or words to that effect. Except we could not and we have not. At least he now knows why I was ambivalent about Flipflop going.

Interestingly, now Flipflop has nailed his colours to the mast for next season with all the guff he is good at, he has in effect given himself probably till just before or just after Christmas in employment unless his team are well cemented in the top three. IMHO.


Title: Re: David Flitcroft: Yes or No
Post by: ferret on Sunday, May 6, 2018, 08:17:51
The one that will always stick in my throat is Wycombe away. We went there for a big game, with automatic promotion still feasible. We’d played Lincoln, Accrington and Mansfield (back in the days when they were quite good) inside the previous 10 days, so it was obvious that a bit of common sense would be needed.

Indeed, we were flagging after 70 but, no problem, he could’ve done all sorts of things... Mullin on for Norris or Richards to give us some legs and a nose for goal, Dunne on for Elsnik to shore up midfield, Ellis to give us some energy - anything. He just stood there with his fucking arms folded, probably dreaming up a fancy word to roll out in his post-match interview as the game slipped further and further out of our grasp.

We eventually inevitably conceded, and that was the turning point of the season. We’ve only won 3 games since.


Title: David Flitcroft: Yes or No
Post by: Batch on Sunday, May 6, 2018, 08:28:08
Wycombe in my opinion was even more stupid because it was quite obvious we couldn't cope with Akinfenwa from pretty much minute 1.

Mind you, he still beat a good number of defenders to the ball to get the winner so maybe switching it around would have been futile.

Preston kept him very quiet at the CG. I don't think you can pin the disastrous end of season solely on his loss, but it was a major contributor.

Actually on that front I wonder had Flitcroft stayed whether we'd have made the playoffs. Should brown carried on with the 50/50 football we had played all season. Or would Flitcroft have slumped just as badly as brown did.

we'll never know


Title: Re: David Flitcroft: Yes or No
Post by: pauld on Sunday, May 6, 2018, 09:30:55

Actually on that front I wonder had Flitcroft stayed whether we'd have made the playoffs. Should brown carried on with the 50/50 football we had played all season. Or would Flitcroft have slumped just as badly as brown did.
Doubt it but if we did it would only have been to have once again slumped to an expensive humiliation in front of the (very small) national TV audience