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Swindon Town FC => Match Day Action/Reaction => Topic started by: sir windon on Friday, December 15, 2017, 22:47:20



Title: Flitcroft
Post by: sir windon on Friday, December 15, 2017, 22:47:20
Seeing as there would be an outside chance of making the play offs with a monkey in charge in this division, does any one genuinely believe we can make the top 3 with Flitcroft at the helm?.Can any one think of any reason not to replace him?


Title: Re: Flitcroft
Post by: Audrey's Bellend on Friday, December 15, 2017, 22:51:49
He recruited OK up front but with absolutely nothing to back it up in midfield or at the back.

My mind was made up when he came out with the ‘what happens between the 2 18 yard boxes isn’t that important’.

He’s a cretinous throw back to the dark ages. We all know he wasn’t first, or even second, choice in the summer.


Title: Re: Flitcroft
Post by: 1989Monkey on Friday, December 15, 2017, 23:36:06
I don’t even think he has recruited ok upfront. Paid over double what he had to for Woolery, mullin isn’t a scorer. Smith could be bery good at this level but we don’t play to his style.

No creativity and defensively a shambles now. Something has to change. Lose next week and we could quite easily make it 8 in a row


Title: Re: Flitcroft
Post by: Sir red ken on Friday, December 15, 2017, 23:42:04
I have no faith in LP recruiting a good manager. His track record is poor in this department, even worse I feel Alan Mac will be the next victim because who else would take the job.


Title: Re: Flitcroft
Post by: tans on Saturday, December 16, 2017, 01:50:22
Alan Mac is far too intelligent to take the managers job


Title: Re: Flitcroft
Post by: DV Canio on Saturday, December 16, 2017, 08:23:59
I guess we could replace him if there is a better option out there.

Anyway, shouldn’t we be walking this league with our budget? Players and Managers don’t really matter. Remember last time when we steamrolled this division. All credit to the budget; manager did Fuck all - can’t even remember who it was...


Title: Re: Flitcroft
Post by: Matchworn Shirts on Saturday, December 16, 2017, 09:38:36
I think we all knew that the new manager had a huge job on his hands to rebuild after last seasons' fiasco, and that it is not an overnight job to do so, thus taking time.
I have no problem giving Flitcroft time, as you cannot change overnight, if we could see improvement/glimmers of promise. The problem being is I cannot, it is a very poor league in which we are slightly above average


Title: Flitcroft
Post by: Batch on Saturday, December 16, 2017, 09:43:48
it doesn't take much extra to go from average to contenders.

the question is can you see Flitcroft doing that (in January) given his tactical approach to the game ?

I think he should be given the chance, but I've got big doubts


Title: Re: Flitcroft
Post by: Barnard on Saturday, December 16, 2017, 09:51:58
Our tactical approach doesn't seem to involve the Central Midfield pairing being involved in anything more than breaking up play, with any attacking threat coming from out wide. So what do we do? Take the best ball player and crosser of the ball in the squad, the player that was actually influencing games from the full back position, and move him into the centre of midfield where he is, at best, anonymous.

We persist with the 'hoof' when we don't have the players available to make that work, presumably in the hope that one will go over the opposition Centre half and Woolery/Anderson will get onto it?

The side actually has some pace in it up front, but we don't seem to have any idea of how to release that pace.

From my perspective, the recruitment has been poor, with too many similar players in the squad. The tactics and team selection seem ineffective and sometimes baffling and the fight that was there in the first few games at home has gone, or at least there was no evidence of it last night.

I don't think Flitcroft can/will change it and therefore it's time for a replacement.  


Title: Re: Flitcroft
Post by: ferret on Saturday, December 16, 2017, 10:25:32
Our tactical approach doesn't seem to involve the Central Midfield pairing being involved in anything more than breaking up play, with any attacking threat coming from out wide. So what do we do? Take the best ball player and crosser of the ball in the squad, the player that was actually influencing games from the full back position, and move him into the centre of midfield where he is, at best, anonymous.


That's the biggest issue of the lot for me. Whether it's through ignorance or stubbornness, the refusal to accept that switching Taylor and Iandolo around has been a total failure is really worrying.

Power used to play to a decent level, and watches most of our games. This must also have crossed his mind.


Title: Re: Flitcroft
Post by: Power to people on Saturday, December 16, 2017, 10:46:12
That's the biggest issue of the lot for me. Whether it's through ignorance or stubbornness, the refusal to accept that switching Taylor and Iandolo around has been a total failure is really worrying.

Power used to play to a decent level, and watches most of our games. This must also have crossed his mind.

I'd agree on this totally Taylor was one of our best weapon's and in midfield he is wasted at full back he was making things work and I think the defence was better.

There is no style to play either if we want to play long ball fine, if we want to play direct fine, if we want to play a bit and then launch it fine, but all I'm seeing is kick the ball and hope someone might get to it and increasingly it is getting more scrappy.

The midfield must be the worst we have had, we have decent players that can play wide why not use them to try and get some crosses for smith or Norris.  And I don't get the refusal to give Tom Smith a go to see if he can handle it he may not be better but he cant be worse.

For me I was behind flitcroft but after last night the jury is now retiring for a verdict I am seeing no improvement and judging on last nights performance we will struggle to get close to the top 3 let alone play offs. 

I can see him being given January to get other players in I am just unsure if this is the right thing to do at the moment.

It was always going to be a tough job rebuilding a complete squad but with the players that have been squired they should be enough to get us out of this division.


Title: Re: Flitcroft
Post by: Wobbly Bob on Saturday, December 16, 2017, 11:29:35
I don’t see how a new manager would get anything more out of this group of players than the current one.

Flitcroft has made noises about other managers in this league benefitting from being given the time to build.

I’d say stick with him, although still not sure if he just a gifted blagger or if he does actually know what he is doing.
Stressing before the game that lots of work had been put in to stop conceding from set pieces and then promptly go and let in two more …… Back to the classroom.
Your Ofsted rating is now satisfactory at best, but you could be heading for special measures if you don’t pull your finger out soon.

The home crowd has been remarkably patient so far, but the reaction after last night’s game was understandable. Won’t be long before Flitcroft is fully in the spotlight if things don’t improve.

I think that the plays offs are still a realistic target, top three starting to look out of range and possibly beyond our capabilities.
Exeter managed it last season with being crap at home and very good away.
A win on Saturday would restore some confidence in this belief, then followed by the dread of another couple of home games.

Colchester just looked like a much more balanced and complete team than we did.
Maybe the result of a manager into his second season, coupled with a very good academy.

Speaking of which, if Power still wants to make a bit of money from developing and selling on young players then why not invest in our own academy and do it that way.
Colchester again. Smallish club, with possibly a budget that reflects that. Cat 2 academy.

Watching Swindon, at home, is becoming a bit of a niche activity.
No chance of new “consumers” being attracted with the current “product” on offer.

Patience is a virtue I’m told and the pubs are open so it’s off to town to get jostled by Christmas shoppers.


Title: Re: Flitcroft
Post by: Bob's Orange on Saturday, December 16, 2017, 11:34:17
Can’t remember if I dreamt this or not but seemingly we are the only league 2 side that doesn’t have its own training ground.


Title: Re: Flitcroft
Post by: kirky69 on Saturday, December 16, 2017, 12:21:50
At the start of the season I was impressed with what I heard from Flitcroft, he seemed to be an excellent man manager who articulated the collective need for effort, teamwork and desire, which as fans is the absolute minimum you expect from the players. It appeared to be a refreshing change from the uninspiring tippy tappy player developmental approach from his predecessor. At the time his recruitment of largely rugged league 2 journey types with a couple of younger nuggets - woolery and anderson - also seemed spot on. We started the season ok, with impressive results away from home and the 2 very poor home defeats against Barnet and Crawley didn't appear disastrous in the overall scheme of things, particularly as it was a group of new players trying to get to grips with how Flitcroft wanted them to play. Fast forward 2 months and matters have deteriorated to an alarming extent. Confidence is completely drained both on the pitch and in the stands, we have absolutely no pattern of play and he is clearly not getting the best or even close to the best of a squad of players at his disposal, the vast majority of which he recruited. He blames the defending, which is atrocious at present, but we have no creativity whatsoever. Our midfield is non-existent and we are not using what should be our main weapon - pace - at all. We can all see that Dunne and Linganzi aren't creative and Taylor isn't a midfield player so why persist with that option. January will be vital to change things and we need Elsnik back asap but I am increasingly concerned about Flitcrofts ability both tactically and motivationally given how the season has gone so far.


Title: Re: Flitcroft
Post by: ferret on Saturday, December 16, 2017, 12:24:53
Can’t remember if I dreamt this or not but seemingly we are the only league 2 side that doesn’t have its own training ground.

Power bought that site on the outskirts of Highworth which used to be a golf course, that must have been about 2 years ago now. He made noises about needing planning permission to turn it into a training ground, which seemed highly dubious as filling a few bunkers with grass on an out-of-Town site hardly represents a significant change of use. I’d like to hear his thoughts on the ‘progress’ on this.


Title: Re: Flitcroft
Post by: ferret on Saturday, December 16, 2017, 12:46:31
I don’t see how a new manager would get anything more out of this group of players than the current one.

Flitcroft has made noises about other managers in this league benefitting from being given the time to build.

I’d say stick with him, although still not sure if he just a gifted blagger or if he does actually know what he is doing.
Stressing before the game that lots of work had been put in to stop conceding from set pieces and then promptly go and let in two more …… Back to the classroom.
Your Ofsted rating is now satisfactory at best, but you could be heading for special measures if you don’t pull your finger out soon.

The home crowd has been remarkably patient so far, but the reaction after last night’s game was understandable. Won’t be long before Flitcroft is fully in the spotlight if things don’t improve.

I think that the plays offs are still a realistic target, top three starting to look out of range and possibly beyond our capabilities.
Exeter managed it last season with being crap at home and very good away.
A win on Saturday would restore some confidence in this belief, then followed by the dread of another couple of home games.

Colchester just looked like a much more balanced and complete team than we did.
Maybe the result of a manager into his second season, coupled with a very good academy.

Speaking of which, if Power still wants to make a bit of money from developing and selling on young players then why not invest in our own academy and do it that way.
Colchester again. Smallish club, with possibly a budget that reflects that. Cat 2 academy.

Watching Swindon, at home, is becoming a bit of a niche activity.
No chance of new “consumers” being attracted with the current “product” on offer.

Patience is a virtue I’m told and the pubs are open so it’s off to town to get jostled by Christmas shoppers.


I don’t buy in to the whole ‘leave ‘Flitters’ alone, no other manager would do any better’ line. Picking players in the right positions wouldn’t be a bad start, and I’d struggle to believe that a respectable lower league manager couldn’t average more than a point per home game over half a season. Home form is always going to be the basis of the atmosphere around the club. I agree that our crowd has been very patient, and I’m not surprised that it turned on the back of yesterday’s second half.


Title: Re: Flitcroft
Post by: OOH! SHAUN TAYLOR on Saturday, December 16, 2017, 12:46:34
At the start of the season I was impressed with what I heard from Flitcroft, he seemed to be an excellent man manager who articulated the collective need for effort, teamwork and desire, which as fans is the absolute minimum you expect from the players. It appeared to be a refreshing change from the uninspiring tippy tappy player developmental approach from his predecessor. At the time his recruitment of largely rugged league 2 journey types with a couple of younger nuggets - woolery and anderson - also seemed spot on. We started the season ok, with impressive results away from home and the 2 very poor home defeats against Barnet and Crawley didn't appear disastrous in the overall scheme of things, particularly as it was a group of new players trying to get to grips with how Flitcroft wanted them to play. Fast forward 2 months and matters have deteriorated to an alarming extent. Confidence is completely drained both on the pitch and in the stands, we have absolutely no pattern of play and he is clearly not getting the best or even close to the best of a squad of players at his disposal, the vast majority of which he recruited. He blames the defending, which is atrocious at present, but we have no creativity whatsoever. Our midfield is non-existent and we are not using what should be our main weapon - pace - at all. We can all see that Dunne and Linganzi aren't creative and Taylor isn't a midfield player so why persist with that option. January will be vital to change things and we need Elsnik back asap but I am increasingly concerned about Flitcrofts ability both tactically and motivationally given how the season has gone so far.
Agree with the above 100%. Flitcroft talks a very, very good game - He is Premier League level in fact. But the disparity with what he says and the values he espouses and what we are seeing on the pitch is so vast it's almost comical (almost).

If there was any sign whatsoever of any upward curve in terms of progress I would say give him more time but there is none as far as I can see. If I was in Power's position I think I would be pulling the plug now.


Title: Re: Flitcroft
Post by: Audrey's Bellend on Saturday, December 16, 2017, 12:47:45
At the start of the season I was impressed with what I heard from Flitcroft, he seemed to be an excellent man manager who articulated the collective need for effort, teamwork and desire, which as fans is the absolute minimum you expect from the players. It appeared to be a refreshing change from the uninspiring tippy tappy player developmental approach from his predecessor. At the time his recruitment of largely rugged league 2 journey types with a couple of younger nuggets - woolery and anderson - also seemed spot on. We started the season ok, with impressive results away from home and the 2 very poor home defeats against Barnet and Crawley didn't appear disastrous in the overall scheme of things, particularly as it was a group of new players trying to get to grips with how Flitcroft wanted them to play. Fast forward 2 months and matters have deteriorated to an alarming extent. Confidence is completely drained both on the pitch and in the stands, we have absolutely no pattern of play and he is clearly not getting the best or even close to the best of a squad of players at his disposal, the vast majority of which he recruited. He blames the defending, which is atrocious at present, but we have no creativity whatsoever. Our midfield is non-existent and we are not using what should be our main weapon - pace - at all. We can all see that Dunne and Linganzi aren't creative and Taylor isn't a midfield player so why persist with that option. January will be vital to change things and we need Elsnik back asap but I am increasingly concerned about Flitcrofts ability both tactically and motivationally given how the season has gone so far.
With hindsight it was always going to go 1 of 2 ways. The home form would turn around and we’d storm up the league or the away form would deteriorate and we’d struggle.

Automatics are still very much on if we ditch Flitcroft and recruit wisely in January - I think we all realise the league is, by and large, mundane at best. Failing that, still ditch Flitcroft and start looking to next season with a change of ‘style’.

Anyhoo, the answer is, surprise surprise, DITCH FLITCROFT.


Title: Re: Flitcroft
Post by: Bob's Orange on Saturday, December 16, 2017, 12:56:35
Who do people genuinely think would take this lot forward? Do we think our current squad of players are good enough to go up? Is our current blip due to confidence? Are players underperforming?

For me sacking Flitcroft seems knee jerk and I can’t see it happening but the current malaise needs to be nipped in the bud, and fast!


Title: Re: Flitcroft
Post by: Flashheart on Saturday, December 16, 2017, 13:01:08
I've seen enough to think we have the players. We've actually looked quite good at times, until this current poor run started. There was a point I thought we were beginning to click and were looking at getting to, and staying in, the top 3.

Quite what went wrong, or how to fix it, I don't know. I'm hoping those in charge do.


Title: Re: Flitcroft
Post by: Peter Venkman on Saturday, December 16, 2017, 13:09:33
I agree with FH, when we were on the run of 5 wins on the bounce nobody was calling for Flitcrofts head, yes weren't playing great but we were getting results.

For me the only things that have changed are Taylor going into midfield with Iandolo at LB and I think we really miss Elsniks runs through the middle and Prestons form has dipped a little too.

I still think we need 3 more players in the January window but at times we rip teams apart, but conversely teams also rip us apart.


Title: Re: Flitcroft
Post by: 4D on Saturday, December 16, 2017, 13:23:25
Apart from a couple of blips Swindon have been like this for the last 20 years, why is anyone surprised?


Title: Re: Flitcroft
Post by: horlock07 on Saturday, December 16, 2017, 13:53:54
Power bought that site on the outskirts of Highworth which used to be a golf course, that must have been about 2 years ago now. He made noises about needing planning permission to turn it into a training ground, which seemed highly dubious as filling a few bunkers with grass on an out-of-Town site hardly represents a significant change of use. I’d like to hear his thoughts on the ‘progress’ on this.

Its a change of use and thus in planning legal terms it needed planning permission, which was granted in June last year.

I don’t even think he has recruited ok upfront. Paid over double what he had to for Woolery,

I cannot imagine for one second that Flitcroft has any say in what we pay for players, he may identify targets but the financial stuff will all be down to Power.



Title: Re: Flitcroft
Post by: Peter Venkman on Saturday, December 16, 2017, 14:06:33
We do have some "special" supporters  ::)

Not quite sure why an owner would sack himself.

From the FB fans page.

(https://s7.postimg.org/leqjbxhh7/Untitled.png)


Title: Re: Flitcroft
Post by: Wobbly Bob on Saturday, December 16, 2017, 14:43:18
I don’t buy in to the whole ‘leave ‘Flitters’ alone, no other manager would do any better’ line. Picking players in the right positions wouldn’t be a bad start, and I’d struggle to believe that a respectable lower league manager couldn’t average more than a point per home game over half a season. Home form is always going to be the basis of the atmosphere around the club. I agree that our crowd has been very patient, and I’m not surprised that it turned on the back of yesterday’s second half.

I just think that the club needs a period of stability and not yet another managerial change.
Getting rid now would be very harsh and also a tacit admission from Power that he fucked up the appointment.
Don't think it's going to happen just yet, but this losing run needs to be stopped.

Taylor is less of a menace to the team at LB than he is in midfield, but that's a marginal call I reckon.
Was hoping that somebody with his experience would bring a degree of calmness to proceedings, but he is almost Dunnesque when it comes to panic stations when a moving ball comes towards him.
This is so baffling that I'll give him the benefit of the doubt and suggest that he is playing like that under instruction as part of the overall game plan.

Iandolo might yet grow into the LB role, but those around him need to step up and help him through games.
A vocal goalkeeper able to organise those in front of him would be a great asset to have, particularly when the defence is going through this shaky patch.


Title: Re: Flitcroft
Post by: Audrey's Bellend on Saturday, December 16, 2017, 14:54:33
My gripe is that there is no forward planning. So we get promoted this season, what then? None of the current players are L1 standard, so it’s start from scratch again. Flitcroft won’t change his ‘style’ which fans obviously don’t like judging by attendances - so what’s the point?

It’s 3 season’s now of almost unwatchable football.


Title: Re: Flitcroft
Post by: RobertT on Saturday, December 16, 2017, 16:19:11
To counter DV's sarcasm, I will agree with his comments.  Any sensible manager with the budget we have, according to reports, had available should be able to get a team together in this league in with a chance of the play offs at least.

As it happens, that is what we have, a team that is on the edge, looked like it could sniff the top 3 for a bit then after a few games has slid.

So to Flitcroft.

For most of the season so far I have been spouting the same shit - we look awful, it's horrible to watch, we play very long ball on purpose and don't care about the midfield in terms of thinking about the attack.  That all being said, my view was that the investment had been made upfront and in most games our roulette approach to the game would win out, but not by much.  Enough for the play offs - hit it long, hope for the bounce of the ball to one of our better forward players and create a chance or a set piece.

The problem i see in the past few games is that the defensive set-up seems less capable than before - probably due to injuries and moving players around too much.  Taylor to midfield is a huge error of judgement in my opinion and belies a Manager who is in fact below average.  He was god awful when  he played there at the start of the season and at that time I believed he'd never be a useful midfielder ever again, I stand by that.  Then we create a problem in defence by bringing in a youngster who doesn't even play there.  That must create a problem.  Add onto that the constant changing of the front four and you create another problem.  Flitcroft's inability to settle the team is his issue and goes to the problem suggested at Bury - too often wanting to be viewed as in control and a tactical genius.  Constantly putting Norris back in, who he seems personally invested in improving, even when his injury was clearly causing a problem and meaning he was in and out, having to be subbed etc.  The inability to change his decision on the left back slot, the constant in and out of everyone upfront.

To me, it all adds up to a problem in the Manager position, either now, or the future even if he sorts this out.  We can still make the play offs with him as Manager, I am not looking forward to watching whether we get there or not.


Title: Re: Flitcroft
Post by: Batch on Saturday, December 16, 2017, 16:42:19
Quote from: RobertT
We can still make the play offs with him as Manager, I am not looking forward to watching whether we get there or not.

This sums it up for me.

Added in to this was the fact that Newport and Colchester were as awful as we are. it doesn't take much to tip the balance in our favour.

I am not convinced the current squad has enough, but we have a transfer window approaching.


Title: Re: Flitcroft
Post by: Reg Smeeton on Saturday, December 16, 2017, 16:53:41
To me, it all adds up to a problem in the Manager position, either now, or the future even if he sorts this out.  We can still make the play offs with him as Manager, I am not looking forward to watching whether we get there or not.

All managers do these sort of things; they'll have an idea of their first XI and how they'd like to play and are then undone by events.  Flitters' problem caused by injuries...

Atm we need to start paying a bit of heed to what is happening below us, rather than worrying too much about those above.


Title: Re: Flitcroft
Post by: Mother Brown on Saturday, December 16, 2017, 16:59:01
This sums it up for me.

Added in to this was the fact that Newport and Colchester were as awful as we are. it doesn't take much to tip the balance in our favour.

I am not convinced the current squad has enough, but we have a transfer window approaching.
But Newport and Colchester being "as awful as we are" . . managed to beat us.


Title: Re: Flitcroft
Post by: Private Fraser on Saturday, December 16, 2017, 17:21:30

Atm we need to start paying a bit of heed to what is happening below us, rather than worrying too much about those above.

Ah! That's more like it, Reg.  I was starting to think you had been 'bodysnatched'.  :)


Title: Re: Flitcroft
Post by: Batch on Saturday, December 16, 2017, 17:51:33
Quote from: Mother Brown
But Newport and Colchester being "as awful as we are" . . managed to beat us.

yes yes, I noticed that. my point is we probably could have got a couple of points out of them even being this shit.

with a few key players we could be better then them. it might be enough for the playoffs.

and no I'm not sure GF will get them and adapt our play


Title: Re: Flitcroft
Post by: Reg Smeeton on Saturday, December 16, 2017, 18:05:04
Ah! That's more like it, Reg.  I was starting to think you had been 'bodysnatched'.  :)

Not too much damage done... OK we've dropped to 12th, but the drop line is still a dozen points away, so is going to take us a while to get involved.  Crewe who were there at the start of the day could easily be only 6 points off us by next Saturday  :(

We are the only side in Div 4 to be pointless over the last 3 games, such is the closeness of this league.


Title: Re: Flitcroft
Post by: kirky69 on Saturday, December 16, 2017, 18:57:50
Flitcroft made it clear in his very late post match interview that players would be released in January to enable new ones to come in and also including current loanees in this equation. As H Smith was second choice behind Norris when both fit, I see him going back to Millwall. Hussey's injury may get him back to Sheff Utd, thus leaving 2 spaces for replacement loanees. If we can get money for Vigs that would be very useful to fund better option. We urgently need a creative midfielder plus a goalscorer as a minimum.


Title: Re: Flitcroft
Post by: aroundthefur on Saturday, December 16, 2017, 19:25:52
Anderson won’t be here post-Jan.


Title: Re: Flitcroft
Post by: Batch on Saturday, December 16, 2017, 19:30:13
Quote from: aroundthefur
Anderson won’t be here post-Jan.
prediction or informed?

still can't work out if he's good but not with the right partner, or bang average


Title: Re: Flitcroft
Post by: Reg Smeeton on Saturday, December 16, 2017, 20:50:11
prediction or informed?

still can't work out if he's good but not with the right partner, or bang average

Keshi has been the player I've been most disappointed with, occasionally shows some signs but nothing like often enough.  I've assumed he'll go back in Jan along with Harry Smith.  Sadly Hussey looks fucked, so presumably go back to Blades. Hopefully the 2 Derby lads will stay.

About time we signed Nicky Ajose again, he's not doing much for Bury...


Title: Re: Flitcroft
Post by: Batch on Saturday, December 16, 2017, 21:02:16
has Louis Thompson recovered yet,?


Title: Re: Flitcroft
Post by: tans on Saturday, December 16, 2017, 21:06:26
Gladwin too


Title: Re: Flitcroft
Post by: Reg Smeeton on Saturday, December 16, 2017, 21:11:01
has Louis Thompson recovered yet,?

I did wonder if Louis might be back needing some games.  Gladders doesn't seem to be getting much of a look in at Blackburn.


Title: Re: Flitcroft
Post by: REDBUCK on Saturday, December 16, 2017, 21:55:52
prediction or informed?

still can't work out if he's good but not with the right partner, or bang average

Two much of a show pony at this level for me. Some good stuff but not enough and not much of a team player when things get a little difficult
.


Title: Re: Flitcroft
Post by: ferret on Sunday, December 17, 2017, 10:09:31
I just think that the club needs a period of stability and not yet another managerial change.
Getting rid now would be very harsh and also a tacit admission from Power that he fucked up the appointment.
Don't think it's going to happen just yet, but this losing run needs to be stopped.

Taylor is less of a menace to the team at LB than he is in midfield, but that's a marginal call I reckon.
Was hoping that somebody with his experience would bring a degree of calmness to proceedings, but he is almost Dunnesque when it comes to panic stations when a moving ball comes towards him.
This is so baffling that I'll give him the benefit of the doubt and suggest that he is playing like that under instruction as part of the overall game plan.

Iandolo might yet grow into the LB role, but those around him need to step up and help him through games.
A vocal goalkeeper able to organise those in front of him would be a great asset to have, particularly when the defence is going through this shaky patch.

I do understand what you’re saying. As highlighted by another post, I just think that Flitcroft is too ‘radical’ for his own good.

Eventually we’ll win a game or two with a midfielder at left back, a left back in midfield, a forward on the wing and a winger up front. And Flitcroft will love telling us all about it. Trouble is, it won’t happen often enough.

A couple of months ago we had a more stable, conventional team in place, and it kept winning - we even won 3 out of 4 at home(!!). I think that gave Flitcroft the ‘inspiration’ to try and muck around with a winning formula. And, now that his new radical ideas have failed, he’s been too stubborn to revert to Plan A. Now that the confidence is shot, it might be too late.


Title: Re: Flitcroft
Post by: Audrey's Bellend on Sunday, December 17, 2017, 10:42:43
I think you give him too much credit. He is repeating his tenure at Bury very closely. If that disaster couldn’t or wouldn’t change his ideas on team management then nothing will.

If he can’t see, or acknowledge, that whatever it is he is trying to do isn’t working - and 5 defeats in a row is as sure a sign as there can be - then we have no hope with him in charge.


Title: Re: Flitcroft
Post by: ferret on Sunday, December 17, 2017, 10:52:39
I think you give him too much credit. He is repeating his tenure at Bury very closely. If that disaster couldn’t or wouldn’t change his ideas on team management then nothing will.

If he can’t see, or acknowledge, that whatever it is he is trying to do isn’t working - and 5 defeats in a row is as sure a sign as there can be - then we have no hope with him in charge.

I agree. Assuming he's still here for Crewe, that will be huge - if we lose there, we will face the slightly surreal prospect of being a top-half team ready to write off a couple of home games. Which is a real shame on the manager.

If he does not at the very least revert to Taylor at left back for Crewe, and we get beat again, surely the writing will be on the wall.


Title: Re: Flitcroft
Post by: Bob's Orange on Sunday, December 17, 2017, 11:33:05
If he is going to insist on putting Taylor in CM why not play Brophy at LB instead of attempting to shoehorn Iandolo.


Title: Re: Flitcroft
Post by: ferret on Sunday, December 17, 2017, 11:45:14
If he is going to insist on putting Taylor in CM why not play Brophy at LB instead of attempting to shoehorn Iandolo.

Yes, or I actually think Brophy would do alright in front of Taylor, on the left hand side of the 3. He’s got some defensive instincts, which Taylor needs in front of him, and can also get down the wing - something which the likes of Goddard are obviously not capable of.


Title: Re: Flitcroft
Post by: sir windon on Tuesday, December 26, 2017, 20:34:37
Can I repeat the question at the start of this thread?


Title: Re: Flitcroft
Post by: 4D on Tuesday, December 26, 2017, 20:41:03
Can I repeat the question at the start of this thread?

Yes, you can hit the quote button and it brings it down the thread like this  ;)


Title: Re: Flitcroft
Post by: swindonmaniac on Tuesday, December 26, 2017, 23:02:28
Can I repeat the question at the start of this thread?
yes  -   no and no.


Title: Re: Flitcroft
Post by: Flashheart on Wednesday, December 27, 2017, 08:08:14
Is he still here?


Title: Re: Flitcroft
Post by: Don Rogers Sock on Wednesday, December 27, 2017, 11:26:19
Lose Saturday and it may be time up for him


Title: Re: Flitcroft
Post by: Batch on Wednesday, December 27, 2017, 12:19:05
Lose Saturday and it may be time up for him

I don't envy Power's position on this call.

I know I'm stating the obvious, but its a tale of two halves. Mathematically we are very close to a shot of promotion. Just need to win a few at home and after Notts County we are into an "easier" run (in theory).

But a collapse in away form could see us enter a Regageddon scenario of looking over our shoulder. I think with such a big gap we will be fine though.

As somebody said, the season is on a knife edge.

One thing that worries me is that Power said in an interview:

https://www.totalswindon.com/sport/david-flitcroft-and-lee-power-are-going-through-plans-for-swindon-town-recruitment-in-january/
Quote
"We've gone all in really to try and get out the league, we're only halfway and we've got to try and continue with that."

other than sounding like we aren't making changes (well he would regardless wouldn't he). Does "all in" mean this season is shit or bust? Is this our one  'big budget'  season.


Title: Re: Flitcroft
Post by: Costanza on Wednesday, December 27, 2017, 12:26:04
Notts County is tough but if we lose to them and fail to beat Barnet and that should be it. Whether it will be, however...


Title: Re: Flitcroft
Post by: chalkies_shorts on Wednesday, December 27, 2017, 12:29:35

other than sounding like we aren't making changes (well he would regardless wouldn't he). Does "all in" mean this season is shit or bust? Is this our one  'big budget'  season.
Think it through. Gates are sliding anyway due to the total lack of entertainment and losing at home. Its the home gates that generate our revenue. We have no players to sell. Vigs stock has fallen considerably from last season. Carry on as we are and gates will slip to 3.5k season ticket holders, away gate plus a few. Budgets will reduce and you get into an existence cycle unless you chuck money at it, which we haven't got or you strike lucky with a manager capable of putting a team together cheaply - John Coleman / Keith Hill but not Flitcroft.
If we don't make it this season then we're in for a long hard slog. Last time we got out of it because Lowndes Lambert sponsored the Town, threw a little bit of money at it but demanded a name as manager and got Macari. Can't see any knights in shining armour out there while Power remains.
Unfortunately, I think we're left with Power going, which I can't see happening. Shit is the new normal.


Title: Re: Flitcroft
Post by: Batch on Wednesday, December 27, 2017, 12:33:05
Bugger. Makes a lot of sense, unfortunately


Title: Re: Flitcroft
Post by: Peter Venkman on Wednesday, December 27, 2017, 13:38:39
Notts County is tough but if we lose to them and fail to beat Barnet and that should be it. Whether it will be, however...
This.


Title: Re: Flitcroft
Post by: Audrey's Bellend on Wednesday, December 27, 2017, 14:05:43
FWIW, I heard that Vigs, Iandolo, Goddard and, surprisingly, Woolery will be available for loan or sale in January.


Title: Re: Flitcroft
Post by: blinkpip on Wednesday, December 27, 2017, 14:17:34
FWIW, I heard that Vigs, Iandolo, Goddard and, surprisingly, Woolery will be available for loan or sale in January.
Some of these are the better bunch. It's the experience lot that have been a let down.


Title: Re: Flitcroft
Post by: Audrey's Bellend on Wednesday, December 27, 2017, 14:18:34
I agree. 3 out of the back 4 need  replacing.


Title: Re: Flitcroft
Post by: Batch on Wednesday, December 27, 2017, 14:20:41
FWIW, I heard that Vigs, Iandolo, Goddard and, surprisingly, Woolery will be available for loan or sale in January.

Surely BS on Woolery, unless he's got someone big time lined up.


Title: Re: Flitcroft
Post by: Flashheart on Wednesday, December 27, 2017, 14:28:35
Audrey's source is usually reliable...


Title: Re: Flitcroft
Post by: Ticker45 on Wednesday, December 27, 2017, 14:34:47
......Gates are sliding anyway due to the total lack of entertainment and losing at home. Its the home gates that generate our revenue.  


Surprisingly enough our gate yesterday was second highest and even taking away the Luton support which I assume was approx 2000, we would still have 6500 at the game that quite a few clubs in the Division would love to see. Got to agree though
that it does not take much for Swindon fans to stop going and a hell of a lot to get them back.


Title: Re: Flitcroft
Post by: Audrey's Bellend on Wednesday, December 27, 2017, 14:55:03
Surely BS on Woolery, unless he's got someone big time lined up.
Being available and another club actually wanting them are 2 different things. I was surprised about Woolery, though.


Title: Re: Flitcroft
Post by: chalkies_shorts on Wednesday, December 27, 2017, 15:15:34
Maybe Woollery has asked to be made available. We're hardy playing to his strengths so he might think he's better off. Also, he's not really made a massive impression here yet. There's something there but he might just be a latter day Sabin.


Title: Re: Flitcroft
Post by: Peter Venkman on Wednesday, December 27, 2017, 15:20:37
Woolery going would be a surprise, not so the other 3, Woolery was out only player who seemed to be trying yesterday with no service at all in the 2nd half.

Vigs obviously does not want to be part of the club, Goddard looks good in small patches but utterly lost for 80% of the rest of the time, Iandolo...I am not convinced he has a future in football at all TBH, but that is not helped by constantly being played well out of position.

Woolery though has pace and control, he just needs to add finishing and he will be a good player.

Perhaps hes a bad apple if this is indeed true but he doesn't seem to be the arrogant/moody type to me.


Title: Re: Flitcroft
Post by: Audrey's Bellend on Wednesday, December 27, 2017, 15:33:32
Perhaps they want a more robust striker. 3 or 4 of ours are tiddlers if we are going to persist with hoofball.


Title: Re: Flitcroft
Post by: Wobbly Bob on Wednesday, December 27, 2017, 15:41:14
Perhaps they want a more robust striker. 3 or 4 of ours are tiddlers if we are going to persist with hoofball.

One thing missing from our formidable armoury is a long throw specialist.
If the plan all along was to go direct then it's surprising that we haven't got one.


Title: Re: Flitcroft
Post by: Peter Venkman on Wednesday, December 27, 2017, 16:31:33
One thing missing from our formidable armoury is a long throw specialist.
If the plan all along was to go direct then it's surprising that we haven't got one.
I was thinking that against Luton, taylors throw ins are pretty poor TBH and it is a weapon in this league thats for sure, but only with a bigger better target man than we currently have.

Perhaps they want a more robust striker. 3 or 4 of ours are tiddlers if we are going to persist with hoofball.
There is no doubt that we are weak up top but I rate Woolery much more than Anderson who I have heard is going back to Palace in January.


Title: Re: Flitcroft
Post by: tans on Thursday, December 28, 2017, 10:50:30
http://www.swindonadvertiser.co.uk/sport/15795079.Enthusiasm_was_hit_before_this_season__says_Flitcroft/


Title: Re: Flitcroft
Post by: Bogus Dave on Thursday, December 28, 2017, 11:07:18
The enthusiasm was hit before he got here, won’t deny that. But flitcroft has then taken the remaining enthusiasm, put it in a weighted sack and thrown it in the nearest canal


Title: Re: Flitcroft
Post by: horlock07 on Thursday, December 28, 2017, 11:26:34
What a load of total deflection intending bollocks!


Title: Re: Flitcroft
Post by: jayohaitchenn on Thursday, December 28, 2017, 11:28:52
Oh just fuck off DF


Title: Re: Flitcroft
Post by: Flashheart on Thursday, December 28, 2017, 11:30:31
I'm going to stick my neck out and suggest that the current atmosphere might have something to do with piss poor performances and results?

Where I get such a notion from I just don't know.


Title: Re: Flitcroft
Post by: tans on Thursday, December 28, 2017, 11:35:38
From the adver:

Was informed last night that there will be no pre-match #stfc press call for Saturday's @Official_NCFC match which - notwithstanding recent results and comments regarding fan engagement - seems rather a missed opportunity to drum up more interest and enthusiasm. #stfc


Title: Re: Flitcroft
Post by: Audrey's Bellend on Thursday, December 28, 2017, 12:27:23
Ah, now I understand the problem.

It's all our fault and the players who are no longer here.

It all makes sense now. Carry on, Dave.


Title: Re: Flitcroft
Post by: Ticker45 on Thursday, December 28, 2017, 12:46:54
I do not think for one moment that Mr Power believes this pile of BS being touted by Mr Flitcroft but has to run with it at the moment. The next few weeks will probably tell.


Title: Re: Flitcroft
Post by: Bob's Orange on Thursday, December 28, 2017, 13:13:19
Surely DF will be given the transfer window and more? We still aren't that far off promotion and a good run at the start of 2018 will see us right up there.

It is frustrating given our clown like home form this year but barring a disastrous Jan and Feb, DF is here for the season at least.


Title: Re: Flitcroft
Post by: Batch on Thursday, December 28, 2017, 13:15:21
he was being tetchy when asked about fan enthusiasm in the post match. that's where this is from.

as said, bit of a deflection, don't think he handles criticism well. it's only going to get better when home form does - his job


Title: Re: Flitcroft
Post by: Batch on Thursday, December 28, 2017, 13:16:10
Quote from: Bob's Orange
Surely DF will be given the transfer window and more? We still aren't that far off promotion and a good run at the start of 2018 will see us right up there.

It is frustrating given our clown like home form this year but barring a disastrous Jan and Feb, DF is here for the season at least.
agreed.


Title: Re: Flitcroft
Post by: Flashheart on Thursday, December 28, 2017, 13:24:28
If he does stay, and he gets things back on track, Power should take credit for that. If it happens, of course. There's too many instances in football where managers are not given enough time.

Either way, I just want is to go the fuck up.


Title: Re: Flitcroft
Post by: horlock07 on Thursday, December 28, 2017, 14:18:52
I think its worth remembering that in all reporting of the club locally there is still an underlying antagonism between Power and journalists and certain outlets, this in turn leads them to grasp the opportunity to go full Facebook Group at times as per after the Luton game.

Not making excuses for the mess but there is context.


Title: Re: Flitcroft
Post by: Bogus Dave on Thursday, December 28, 2017, 14:28:38
And Flitcroft himself having a pop at the adver for calling him out for our shit home form a few weeks ago


Title: Re: Flitcroft
Post by: Batch on Thursday, December 28, 2017, 17:20:40
but this time it was  BBC Wilts that asked the question, and Power loves them. Or he used to.


Title: Re: Flitcroft
Post by: Audrey's Bellend on Thursday, December 28, 2017, 18:24:45
IIRC, that Bury fan who posted here upon Flitcroft’s appointment, foretold almost exactly how things would turn out based on their experience.

If losing 10 in a row, and his job, didn’t manage to change his philosophy and style of running things then he deserves the boot.

Repeating mistakes in the hope that the outcome will change is a sign of a madman. The only slight hope I cling on to is the clamour for Lee Johnson’s head last season by the 82ers.


Title: Re: Flitcroft
Post by: Reg Smeeton on Thursday, December 28, 2017, 18:38:00
IIRC, that Bury fan who posted here upon Flitcroft’s appointment, foretold almost exactly how things would turn out based on their experience.

Here's Shaker's post....

Hello guys I'm a Bury fan just coming to give my opinion on Flitcroft (DF) and his football management.

I'll start off with his interviews though, at first they will start off as something different and very professional but the amount of buzz words he uses ('synergy' and 'DNA') being particular favourites of his during his time with us will gradually annoy you but on the other hand his enthusiasm for the job will never change and he will remain upbeat.

You may have a budget but if his time with us is anything to go by he will smash this out of the park very quickly if he gets half a chance, he brought in some fantastic players during his time with us including the likes of James Vaughan, Zeli Ismael and (I know this might not be a popular one here) Leon Clarke, but his training regime is supposedly very tough and full on, and caused us many many injuries over the last few seasons.

DF is a hoarder, he signs so many players and has so many coaching staff in his team I think that they all get very confused with what their role actually is with the club, although he will attempt to bring in the very best available to him.

Under DF we endured two very very long periods without wins just this last season under him we lost 10 consecutive league games which ended in his eventual dismissal as manager, this run meant we were very lucky to stay up in the end, both seasons poor form came around 10 games into the season after starting well.

DF will probably try to bring in someone that knows the club very well to be his assistant as he likes to try and get all supporters on side at the moment of joining, although as it goes I wouldn't be surprised if he brought in Ben Futcher who was assistant with us (you might have to make the dugout roof a bit higher), Futcher was supposedly the bully boy for DF and was made to single people out that DF didn't like.

If you have anyone that is very well liked by fans and is coming to the end of their career in one or two seasons at the club he will get rid of them as he often feels very threatened by people more popular than him.

Signings will solely be done on the basis of if DF has worked with them before I would not be surprised to see you pick up someone like Ben Williams, Anthony Kay, Kelvin Etuhu or Danny Rose, the clubs you will sign players from will be Barnsley, Rochdale (because of his best mate Keith Hill, this relationship was sickening considering we are supposedly rival clubs), and Bury.

DF needs to feel loved if he doesn't he will claim your fans to be deserters as he did during his 10 game losing streak this season.

All in all I wish you the very best of luck...you might need it although you will probably finish top half this season then struggle the season after.

There are a couple of points which chime, but mostly wide of the mark.


Title: Re: Flitcroft
Post by: sir windon on Sunday, January 28, 2018, 17:44:08
I take it he's staying then. Having started this post a while back, I suppose there's no point in changing as long as we're in the play off hunt.


Title: Re: Flitcroft
Post by: Audrey's Bellend on Sunday, January 28, 2018, 18:58:34
He may well get us promoted this season, but he is most definitely not the manager to take the club forward.

But how do you sack a manager who has just got you promoted?

It’s like the Luke Williams debate in reverse. If he had managed to stave off relegation he would still be in charge now.


Title: Re: Flitcroft
Post by: Batch on Sunday, January 28, 2018, 19:07:38
Let's worry about that if we go up.

Though to be honest the squad doesn't feel capable of L1 football either. could be wrong.

With Flitcroft my concerns have been growing recently, but I still think he deserves the chance to do or die. it's stupid to sack a manager that's in the promotion mix isn't it...


Title: Re: Flitcroft
Post by: pauld on Sunday, January 28, 2018, 21:39:17
Let's worry about that if we go up.

Though to be honest the squad doesn't feel capable of L1 football either. could be wrong.

With Flitcroft my concerns have been growing recently, but I still think he deserves the chance to do or die. it's stupid to sack a manager that's in the promotion mix isn't it...
Again, you've encapsulated my own feelings very well. Not wildly enamoured of the manager, team or style of play but this season is all about getting us out of this horrible division. As long as they have enough between them to do that, I can hold my nose until we regroup next season. If they don't, it's been a waste of a season


Title: Re: Flitcroft
Post by: Panda Paws on Monday, January 29, 2018, 10:52:33
Watford sack managers routinely, and got rid of Jokanovic after going up. But then again the manager there is just one small part of a bigger picture, not the be all and end all.


Title: Re: Flitcroft
Post by: chalkies_shorts on Monday, January 29, 2018, 11:00:46
Again, you've encapsulated my own feelings very well. Not wildly enamoured of the manager, team or style of play but this season is all about getting us out of this horrible division. As long as they have enough between them to do that, I can hold my nose until we regroup next season. If they don't, it's been a waste of a season
Same here. I'm sticking with Flitcroft because we're still in it and I don't trust Power's choice ff managers. I wouldn't be surprised if we got worse.


Title: Re: Flitcroft
Post by: reeves4england on Monday, January 29, 2018, 11:13:05
It'd be interesting to know what the agreement was when DF signed... I'd have been tempted to say you've got one year with us and if you get promoted you'll have a generous bonus of £X but we'll get a League 1 manager in to replace you. If we don't go up, no bonus and still replaced.

Whether any such conversation was had I'm not sure. Can't even find anything that says how long his contract is.


Title: Re: Flitcroft
Post by: jayohaitchenn on Monday, January 29, 2018, 11:14:33
I fucking hate Flitcroft but surely if he gets us up he deserves his chance in League One?


Title: Re: Flitcroft
Post by: Batch on Monday, January 29, 2018, 11:15:44
Indeed. Besides, nobody is going to sign up to a 'do your job you get fired' contact!


Title: Re: Flitcroft
Post by: Peter Venkman on Monday, January 29, 2018, 11:24:59
I don't hate Flitcroft but I don't think he handles his players very well, his decision making at times is very poor, his tactics are not great but if he gets us out of this league at first time then great, can't warm to him but hate is too strong a word.

Do I trust his judgement? probably not much.


Title: Re: Flitcroft
Post by: Audrey's Bellend on Monday, January 29, 2018, 11:34:01
I’m just trying to think ahead. Surely, one of the advantages of getting promoted is a rise in ST sales. If Flitcroft stays I can’t see many more wanting to see another season of the, mainly, shite stuff he’s served up so far.

Saying that, there has been some improvement in the entertainment value lately, albeit interspersed with more of the Crawley, Barnet et al shambolic defending.

Still reckon Ince will return this week.


Title: Re: Flitcroft
Post by: 4D on Monday, January 29, 2018, 11:39:49
He's getting better with experience.

Win %

Barnsley 31%
Rochdale 41%
Swindon 51%

Drawing a game seems to be an issue, only 2 in 35 games. We seem to win or capitulate


Title: Re: Flitcroft
Post by: Reg Smeeton on Monday, January 29, 2018, 12:08:49
I’m just trying to think ahead. Surely, one of the advantages of getting promoted is a rise in ST sales. If Flitcroft stays I can’t see many more wanting to see another season of the, mainly, shite stuff he’s served up so far.

Saying that, there has been some improvement in the entertainment value lately, albeit interspersed with more of the Crawley, Barnet et al shambolic defending.

Still reckon Ince will return this week.

The Power regime is marked by a complete absence of planning.... everything is reactive and made up on the hoof. For a while it looked like The Swindon Way, might have been a plan, but it in reality, it was the serendipitous TT at Spurs which worked to our benefit.

Flitcroft, out of necessity has had to work short term... you don't come in late pre-season, with no players, no friendly fixtures and next to no back room staff  and start dreaming of 2 seasons time.

His first aim, in the short term, was to try and make us at least semi competitive, and get back the purpose of a football club, namely trying to win games.  So far that has largely been achieved... I don't think under Power's ownership, it will ever be anything other than a hand to mouth existence.


Title: Re: Flitcroft
Post by: RobertT on Monday, January 29, 2018, 14:23:03
He's still here now and it's too late to switch out for any massive impact to occur.  The players should get us over the play off line, it's then a coin toss.  If he gets us up there is no debate, he will be kept on - might be having a post season conversation from his boss about some changes needed, but Power isn't going to get rid.

Personally would sack him even if we won every game for the rest of the season (I am assuming here we continue playing the way we do while on such a run).  I abhor everything about his being.  He is a very poor mans Sam Allardyce, someone else I wish ill (just in a footballing sense, not personal) on, so just because he is our Manager doesn't mean I should lose what little moral compass I have.


Title: Re: Flitcroft
Post by: Paolo69 on Monday, January 29, 2018, 14:29:27
Personally would sack him even if we won every game for the rest of the season (I am assuming here we continue playing the way we do while on such a run).  I abhor everything about his being.  He is a very poor mans Sam Allardyce, someone else I wish ill (just in a footballing sense, not personal) on, so just because he is our Manager doesn't mean I should lose what little moral compass I have.

Blimey. Not sure i want to hear your thoughts on Lou Macari.


Title: Re: Flitcroft
Post by: Quagmire on Monday, January 29, 2018, 14:35:58
Interestingly, Flitcroft told someone I know during pre season that he was only given a 1 year contract, as opposed to the 2 year that was quoted. So even if we do go up, I don’t think we are stuck with him.


Title: Re: Flitcroft
Post by: RobertT on Monday, January 29, 2018, 15:21:40
Blimey. Not sure i want to hear your thoughts on Lou Macari.

I don't place him in the same grouping - direct yes, lump it and an over reliance on stats/tactical wizardry, no.  I place Flitcroft in the Allardyce, Beck, Wilkinson, Boothroyd etc. gang.  Macari saw what was needed to get us up, it wasn't a style he needed us to play for his own ego, just an effective way of getting lower league players to win, we did evolve and we did have ball players - the switch by Ardiles showed that.


Title: Re: Flitcroft
Post by: chalkies_shorts on Monday, January 29, 2018, 15:24:25
I don't place him in the same grouping - direct yes, lump it and an over reliance on stats/tactical wizardry, no.  I place Flitcroft in the Allardyce, Beck, Wilkinson, Boothroyd etc. gang.  Macari saw what was needed to get us up, it wasn't a style he needed us to play for his own ego, just an effective way of getting lower league players to win, we did evolve and we did have ball players - the switch by Ardiles showed that.
Macari along with Danny Williams is the best talent spotter we've had in my time watching Town. He bought good players as Ardiles should vouch for.


Title: Re: Flitcroft
Post by: horlock07 on Monday, January 29, 2018, 15:26:57
Macari along with Danny Williams is the best talent spotter we've had in my time watching Town. He bought good players as Ardiles should vouch for.

I stand to be shot down here, but poor manager that he was, Andy King seemed bloody good at spotting talented players, just not molding them into a team.


Title: Re: Flitcroft
Post by: Peter Venkman on Monday, January 29, 2018, 15:31:57
I stand to be shot down here, but poor manager that he was, Andy King seemed bloody good at spotting talented players, just not molding them into a team.
Not at all, King was a superb talent scout 75% of the time, yes he had a few stinkers too but a great scout just not a great manager.

Macari along with Danny Williams is the best talent spotter we've had in my time watching Town. He bought good players as Ardiles should vouch for.
Macari was for me the best at spotting a good player for me, he found us some absolute gems.


Title: Re: Flitcroft
Post by: stfcjack on Monday, January 29, 2018, 15:47:50
Feel like I'm in a small minority here who doesn't actually mind Flitcroft, even though he does make some odd decisions at times


Title: Re: Flitcroft
Post by: Reg Smeeton on Monday, January 29, 2018, 15:57:19
Feel like I'm in a small minority here who doesn't actually mind Flitcroft, even though he does make some odd decisions at times

There's no such thing as boss who hasn't made some complete cock ups.  Danny Williams gets quoted, but as well as the gems he got in some real stinkers...

Lou Macari likewise.  In fact thus far what characterises Flitters' time, is that he has mostly got some value out of slim resources.  Just as well really as if he'd signed some of the stumers that Danny and Lou had at times we'd be well in the shit.

Lou also had the advantage of being able to acquire talent we couldn't afford by creative accounting.


Title: Re: Flitcroft
Post by: REDBUCK on Monday, January 29, 2018, 18:58:21
Indeed.  If Captain Colin was playing for Mansfield now, we couldn't afford him.


Title: Re: Re: Flitcroft
Post by: Oaksey Moonraker on Monday, January 29, 2018, 19:29:40
There's no such thing as boss who hasn't made some complete cock ups.  Danny Williams gets quoted, but as well as the gems he got in some real stinkers...

Lou Macari likewise.  In fact thus far what characterises Flitters' time, is that he has mostly got some value out of slim resources.  Just as well really as if he'd signed some of the stumers that Danny and Lou had at times we'd be well in the shit.

Lou also had the advantage of being able to acquire talent we couldn't afford by creative accounting.
A bit unfair on Lou's reputation for talent spotting and improving players. Macari signed most of his players through agreed low transfer fees with clubs or free transfers, Bamber, Chalky, Diggers, Bodin.

There were relatively few through transfer tribunals were we got pulled up in 1990 for underdisclosing wages through the illegal payments and these were later transfers like Ross MacLaren but Colin was one.

If I recall the scale of the illegal payments was about £100k over 6 years when the likes of Chelsea and Spurs got pulled up for one off payments of similar amounts with a slap on the wrist.

Sent from my HTC U11


Title: Re: Flitcroft
Post by: Peter Venkman on Monday, January 29, 2018, 19:44:14
If I recall the scale of the illegal payments was about £100k over 6 years when the likes of Chelsea and Spurs got pulled up for one off payments of similar amounts with a slap on the wrist.
it was indeed a tax loss of £100k and yes Chelsea, Spurs and West Ham had bigger monitary amounts for less transfers but beacuse we had 36 counts they made an example of us.

But at the time all were well established top division sides, we were just the newcomers to the party, I still think we should have challenged the demotion(s) more at the time.

Macari was one hell of a scout though.


Title: Re: Re: Flitcroft
Post by: Reg Smeeton on Monday, January 29, 2018, 19:44:20
A bit unfair on Lou's reputation for talent spotting and improving players. Macari signed most of his players through agreed low transfer fees with clubs or free transfers, Bamber, Chalky, Diggers, Bodin.

There were relatively few through transfer tribunals were we got pulled up in 1990 for underdisclosing wages through the illegal payments and these were later transfers like Ross MacLaren but Colin was one.

If I recall the scale of the illegal payments was about £100k over 6 years when the likes of Chelsea and Spurs got pulled up for one off payments of similar amounts with a slap on the wrist.

Sent from my HTC U11

Jake Findlay, Tony Evans, Derek Hall, 2nd time Mossy all signed by Lou at the start of 85/86..... to no great benefit.

For sure Lou signed some good players. All well and good if like PdC you can have a scatter gun approach, because you have some money to chuck around either by legal or illegal means. Flitters can't afford mistakes, and thus far has managed to get some value from his signings.


Title: Re: Re: Re: Flitcroft
Post by: Oaksey Moonraker on Monday, January 29, 2018, 20:08:56
Jake Findlay, Tony Evans, Derek Hall, 2nd time Mossy all signed by Lou at the start of 85/86..... to no great benefit.

For sure Lou signed some good players. All well and good if like PdC you can have a scatter gun approach, because you have some money to chuck around either by legal or illegal means. Flitters can't afford mistakes, and thus far has managed to get some value from his signings.
Macari was doing something right because of the fans calls for his reinstatement in Easter 1985 whereas the jury is still out on Flitcroft in most fans eyes during his first season.

 Maybe he is going to take us from League 2 into the Championship playoffs like Lou did in 5 years.





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Title: Re: Flitcroft
Post by: pauld on Monday, January 29, 2018, 20:19:16
Macari was doing something right because of the fans calls for his reinstatement in Easter 1985 whereas the jury is still out on Flitcroft in most fans eyes during his first season.
Which, to be fair, is probably as it should be. I'm unconvinced so far if I'm honest and have been critical of some of his man management in particular but still think he could yet get us out of this division and if he does so he deserves all the plaudits that he will get for that. And if he does take us up, there should be no question of his job being safe IMO (mentioning that solely because some have said they'd get rid even if he does take us up)


Title: Re: Flitcroft
Post by: Peter Venkman on Monday, January 29, 2018, 20:20:49
Jake Findlay, Tony Evans, Derek Hall, 2nd time Mossy all signed by Lou at the start of 85/86..... to no great benefit.
I don't think Hall was a bad signing (just a bad perm ;) ) he didn't fit into our style at that time, he had a couple of good games for us.

One thing with those 4 signings you mentioned though they were all free transfers, and on paper Evans, Findlay and Moss had a great pedigree at higher levels.

But we know with Nalis, Hamilton, Peach, Greenwood, Mcavennie, Fenwick, Kilcline, Sanchez, Galvin, Marwood, Seagraves, Elkins, Bullock, King(2nd time), Mutch, Aljofree, Heiselberg, Hall, Junior Lewis, Burton, Howe, Benjamin, Aaron Brown, Ince, et al the list is almost endless in players with tons of experience coming in, looking look good signings on paper and not performing for us.

Every manager in the last 40 years that has had more than 1 season with us can take the blame for at least 1 or 2 of them.




Title: Re: Flitcroft
Post by: pauld on Monday, January 29, 2018, 20:24:24
Don't think there's been a manager in the history of football who hasn't signed a few duffers. They get judged and remembered for how they did on balance - more good signings than bad, and doing the best job they can with the resources available to them. It's why Guardiola is a better manager than Mourinho.


Title: Re: Flitcroft
Post by: Peter Venkman on Monday, January 29, 2018, 20:24:58
Which, to be fair, is probably as it should be. I'm unconvinced so far if I'm honest and have been critical of some of his man management in particular but still think he could yet get us out of this division and if he does so he deserves all the plaudits that he will get for that. And if he does take us up, there should be no question of his job being safe IMO (mentioning that solely because some have said they'd get rid even if he does take us up)
Exactly as I see it, to sack him after a successful promotion campaign won't happen, Power will give him at least until Christmas if we do go up to see how we do, unless of course we go on a 11 game losing streak ala Bury under him.


Title: Re: Re: Re: Flitcroft
Post by: Reg Smeeton on Monday, January 29, 2018, 20:28:06
Macari was doing something right because of the fans calls for his reinstatement in Easter 1985 whereas the jury is still out on Flitcroft in most fans eyes during his first season.

 Maybe he is going to take us from League 2 into the Championship playoffs like Lou did in 5 years.
Sent from my HTC U11

Of course we live in a very different world to 85.... at the same stage in Lou's first season, we were 6 points worse off than now, with a negative goal difference, crowds at the CG were down to a couple of thousand... the real hardcore.  However the home form was OK, away terrible, it's the home form people mostly see.

Then there was still a connection  between club and fans... the Supporters club bar, occupying a chunk of the Arkells and being open on non match days etc 

Back then in peak Thatcherism, there was still that sense of collective in Swindon, a working class town proud of its roots and the football club's place therein, but it was in the process of being broken.   So now, it's not let's work together,  club and fans, but rather we only beat lowly Crewe 4-3 let's sack the manager.


Title: Re: Flitcroft
Post by: Peter Venkman on Monday, January 29, 2018, 20:28:13
Don't think there's been a manager in the history of football who hasn't signed a few duffers. They get judged and remembered for how they did on balance - more good signings than bad, and doing the best job they can with the resources available to them. It's why Guardiola is a better manager than Mourinho.
Oh they do thats football, I was saying that the players mentioned by Reg "should" have been good experienced signings, and that often the more exeperienced they are the less well they do with us.

I don't remember many experienced signings coming in and doing THAT well for us, Steve White, Ian Culverhouse, Mark Walters and Paul Allan and possibly at a push Darren Ward and Alan Reeves (after a poor first season with us).


Title: Re: Flitcroft
Post by: pauld on Monday, January 29, 2018, 20:33:47
Ian Woan was decent, always liked him


Title: Re: Flitcroft
Post by: Reg Smeeton on Monday, January 29, 2018, 20:35:52
Exactly as I see it, to sack him after a successful promotion campaign won't happen, Power will give him at least until Christmas if we do go up to see how we do, unless of course we go on a 11 game losing streak ala Bury under him.

If we get promotion under Flitters, I'd imagine he'll attract interest from elsewhere, all our successful gaffers have buggered off, sooner or later.


Title: Re: Flitcroft
Post by: Reg Smeeton on Monday, January 29, 2018, 20:43:06
Oh they do thats football, I was saying that the players mentioned by Reg "should" have been good experienced signings, and that often the more exeperienced they are the less well they do with us.

I don't remember many experienced signings coming in and doing THAT well for us, Steve White, Ian Culverhouse, Mark Walters and Paul Allan and possibly at a push Darren Ward and Alan Reeves (after a poor first season with us).

I liked Brian Borrows.... we're talking second tier, he was about 38 when signing and near 40 when finishing hardly missed a game in his 2 seasons we never went down.

Of course probably our best ever experienced player was the late, great John Smith... had played in the legendary Spurs double team as a youngster, and found his way down to Torquay, where he developed a love of Devonian scrumpy.


Title: Re: Flitcroft
Post by: Peter Venkman on Monday, January 29, 2018, 20:45:44
Ian Woan was decent, always liked him
He wasn't too bad for us, took a good free kick.

And yes Borrows was decent enough.


Title: Re: Flitcroft
Post by: chalkies_shorts on Monday, January 29, 2018, 21:19:19
I would defend Galvin and marwood. Both were good for us. Galvin's performance at West ham when he and Parrish went for it was absolute quality.


Title: Re: Flitcroft
Post by: RobertT on Monday, January 29, 2018, 21:33:31
Which, to be fair, is probably as it should be. I'm unconvinced so far if I'm honest and have been critical of some of his man management in particular but still think he could yet get us out of this division and if he does so he deserves all the plaudits that he will get for that. And if he does take us up, there should be no question of his job being safe IMO (mentioning that solely because some have said they'd get rid even if he does take us up)

I don't run the club, so I doubt Flitcroft is losing too much sleep about my obsessive dislike of him.


Title: Re: Flitcroft
Post by: pauld on Monday, January 29, 2018, 23:28:59
I don't run the club, so I doubt Flitcroft is losing too much sleep about my obsessive dislike of him.
I bet he cries himself to sleep because of you, you bastard!


Title: Re: Flitcroft
Post by: Flashheart on Tuesday, January 30, 2018, 07:03:36
I'm still holding onto the notion that we're expecting too much, and the style is down to us being in a crappy league. I'm going to cling onto those straws for as long as I can.


Title: Re: Flitcroft
Post by: normy on Tuesday, January 30, 2018, 08:23:05
Flitters did a tremendous job completely rebuilding the team, when I could see another relegation staring us in the face, even in this crappy league. Some of his decisions are questionable,but I think we expect too much too soon, and it's going much better than I expected.


Title: Re: Flitcroft
Post by: Pax Romana on Tuesday, January 30, 2018, 11:28:07
Flitters did a tremendous job completely rebuilding the team, when I could see another relegation staring us in the face, even in this crappy league. Some of his decisions are questionable,but I think we expect too much too soon, and it's going much better than I expected.

This. 

Last season was so dreadful and the team was such a shambles that I had a real fear at start of season that we could  plummet out of league. The football is dreadful and I also find some of his decisions baffling but at least he's steadied the ship.


Title: Re: Flitcroft
Post by: Peter Venkman on Tuesday, January 30, 2018, 11:34:31
FWIW I would still have Flitcroft over Cooper and Williams, despite his obvious (at times) failings.


Title: Re: Flitcroft
Post by: RobertT on Tuesday, January 30, 2018, 16:53:18
I'd take Sturrock over Flitcroft, I'm going to be miserable for a while I think :-)

On the positive side, I still think we'll be in the play offs


Title: Re: Flitcroft
Post by: Reg Smeeton on Tuesday, January 30, 2018, 16:56:52
I'd take Sturrock over Flitcroft, I'm going to be miserable for a while I think :-)

Even though he's been out of work for a while due to illness?


Title: Re: Flitcroft
Post by: Audrey's Bellend on Tuesday, January 30, 2018, 17:01:20
FWIW I would still have Flitcroft over Cooper and Williams, despite his obvious (at times) failings.
No doubt. Most people can’t get their head round the fact we are in the mix yet playing shit.


Title: Re: Flitcroft
Post by: Tails on Tuesday, January 30, 2018, 17:25:11
No doubt. Most people can’t get their head round the fact we are in the mix yet playing shit.

I can! League Two is garbage.


Title: Re: Flitcroft
Post by: chalkies_shorts on Tuesday, January 30, 2018, 19:18:03
The football under sturrock was also shit.


Title: Re: Flitcroft
Post by: RobertT on Tuesday, January 30, 2018, 19:23:45
I know


Title: Re: Flitcroft
Post by: Exiled Bob on Tuesday, January 30, 2018, 22:31:48
A lot of the time it was pretty shit under Macari as well. Until it all clicked into place....


Title: Re: Flitcroft
Post by: Not that Nice If I'm Honest on Wednesday, January 31, 2018, 00:50:45
A lot of the time it was pretty shit under Macari as well. Until it all clicked into place....

But it did click...............and then we were pretty much unplayable

And then Ardiles came in and we all shit ourselves when defenders started passing in their own box !
And then that clicked.............

Then Hoddle came in ..........etc

Maybe I'm part of the spoilt generation, who saw those three managers.

(and lets not forget Paolo)


Title: Re: Flitcroft
Post by: jayohaitchenn on Wednesday, January 31, 2018, 13:10:41
Sturrock's football was far better than this. At least we had wingers and attacking full backs.


Title: Re: Flitcroft
Post by: pauld on Wednesday, January 31, 2018, 13:12:34
Sturrock's football was far better than this. At least we had wingers and attacking full backs.
Yup. And the standard in League 2 was much much better. But we are in the League 2 we are in, if Flitcroft's ugly football gets us out of it, I'm all for it.
Although, if it doesn't he's a complete tosser who should have been sacked in October ;)


Title: Re: Flitcroft
Post by: Reg Smeeton on Wednesday, January 31, 2018, 13:31:58
Yup. And the standard in League 2 was much much better.

I remember some pretty terrible games back in 06/07.   Sturrock knew though how to get out of Div 4. When he did it with Plymuff their leading score was Coughlin the centre half with 11.



Title: Re: Flitcroft
Post by: Batch on Wednesday, January 31, 2018, 13:38:51
Sturrock knew though how to get out of Div 4

God that last day game V Walsall, about 60 minutes of action and a gentleman's agreement for 30 to ensure a double celebration!

Anyway, even Sturrock didn't walk it. But he did the job.


Title: Re: Flitcroft
Post by: pauld on Wednesday, January 31, 2018, 13:47:14
I remember some pretty terrible games back in 06/07. 
There were indeed, but I'd still say the standard overall was much better than it is now. Maybe rose-tinted specs on my part?


Title: Re: Flitcroft
Post by: adje on Wednesday, January 31, 2018, 13:50:10
Sturrock's football was far better than this. At least we had wingers and attacking full backs.


....and Blair Sturrock! Better than Norris?


Title: Re: Flitcroft
Post by: Posh Red on Wednesday, January 31, 2018, 13:53:03
God that last day game V Walsall, about 60 minutes of action and a gentleman's agreement for 30 to ensure a double celebration!

Anyway, even Sturrock didn't walk it. But he did the job.

Are you sure you’re not confusing that with Hartlepool in 2004.

Walsall scored in the 90th minute to get their draw, whereas Hartlepool equalised in the 71st minute.
That say both of us make the playoffs at the expense of Port Vale on goal difference


Title: Re: Flitcroft
Post by: Reg Smeeton on Wednesday, January 31, 2018, 13:56:15
God that last day game V Walsall, about 60 minutes of action and a gentleman's agreement for 30 to ensure a double celebration!

Anyway, even Sturrock didn't walk it. But he did the job.

Of course, the notion that the standard was higher in 06/07 is fanciful. 

9 of the teams we competed against are now in the Conference or worse. Darlo, Boston, Hereford, have dropped below Conference N/S. HPool, Torquay and Chester may soon join Stockport in Confeernce N/S. None of the teams are higher than Div 3.

Reality is that Div 4 this year is like Div 4 11 years ago.


Title: Re: Flitcroft
Post by: Batch on Wednesday, January 31, 2018, 14:02:44
Are you sure you’re not confusing that with Hartlepool in 2004.

Walsall scored in the 90th minute to get their draw, whereas Hartlepool equalised in the 71st minute.
That say both of us make the playoffs at the expense of Port Vale on goal difference

I am too.

Remembered we needed a draw v Walsall and somehow morphed it in to the other game. Stupid memory.


Title: Re: Flitcroft
Post by: pauld on Wednesday, January 31, 2018, 14:06:22
Of course, the notion that the standard was higher in 06/07 is fanciful. 

9 of the teams we competed against are now in the Conference or worse. Darlo, Boston, Hereford, have dropped below Conference N/S. HPool, Torquay and Chester may soon join Stockport in Confeernce N/S. None of the teams are higher than Div 3.
But that's not because of how good/bad they were at football in 06-07. At least two of those (Hereford and Hartlepool) have been laid low by our ex-owner's cabal, rather than because they played shit football 10 years ago. Chester have undergone a complete revolution after the malfeasance of the Vaughans, Torquay have been laid waste by their former benefactor dying or losing interest (I forget which) and ending up in the hands of a developer who's just after their stadium. None of that is anything to do with how well/badly they played 10 years ago.


Title: Re: Flitcroft
Post by: Peter Venkman on Wednesday, January 31, 2018, 14:08:50
malfeasance
Congratulations, you win "word of the day" :)


Title: Re: Flitcroft
Post by: pauld on Wednesday, January 31, 2018, 14:14:32
Congratulations, you win "word of the day" :)
I'm so proud :)


Title: Re: Flitcroft
Post by: Reg Smeeton on Wednesday, January 31, 2018, 14:15:25
But that's not because of how good/bad they were at football in 06-07. At least two of those (Hereford and Hartlepool) have been laid low by our ex-owner's cabal, rather than because they played shit football 10 years ago. Chester have undergone a complete revolution after the malfeasance of the Vaughans, Torquay have been laid waste by their former benefactor dying or losing interest (I forget which) and ending up in the hands of a developer who's just after their stadium. None of that is anything to do with how well/badly they played 10 years ago.

I would suggest that having a well run club tends to produce a decent side, whereas conversely, having a poorly run club tends to produce a poor side.  There may be the odd spell whereby it can work differently, and sometimes appearances can be deceptive, like our Hillier/Macari era years.

However I would agree that sometimes leagues are obviously a bit stronger than usual. Such a case would have been Wilson's PO season. where you had us, Norwich, Millwall, Charlton, Leeds, Uddersfield, and Soton  battling it out at the top.


Title: Re: Flitcroft
Post by: pauld on Wednesday, January 31, 2018, 15:11:18
I would suggest that having a well run club tends to produce a decent side, whereas conversely, having a poorly run club tends to produce a poor side.
Completely agree, my objection was more to your correlation between where those sides are now and how they played 10 years ago. My point was they weren't all basket cases 10 years ago, a lot has happened in the mean time to cause their downfall


Title: Re: Flitcroft
Post by: Reg Smeeton on Wednesday, January 31, 2018, 15:38:29
Completely agree, my objection was more to your correlation between where those sides are now and how they played 10 years ago. My point was they weren't all basket cases 10 years ago, a lot has happened in the mean time to cause their downfall

Let's make this evidential.  It might be assumed that if the standard was higher 11 years ago in the clubs that dropped, then there would be players at the time who went on to bigger and better. Let's have a look.....

I've picked out any players of whom I've heard since, who might be considered to have gone on and been better than Div 4, or who had previous rep but were slumming it. Or any players, with STFC connections to give a quality control.

HPool.  Dimi Konstantopoulis in goal, now 39 still kicking around at MBoro

Darlo. Patrick Collins and Daisy Duke

Wrexham.  Matt Done, now in Div 3 with Dale, has had a steady lower league journeyman career

Stockport. Ashley Williams. The odd Div 4 player can still make it up to the top flight. Last season Ampadu at Exeter did it.

Chester. Robbie Martinez played, although his rise was as manager as opposed to player.

Torquay. None

Boston. Dany N'Guessan. They also had a Mark Albrighton.... not that one.

Hereford. Alan Connell, Andy Williams.

Macclesfield. Colin Heath  :)


Title: Re: Flitcroft
Post by: pauld on Wednesday, January 31, 2018, 17:15:13
Let's make this evidential.  It might be assumed
This is the problem, there isn't an objective way of comparing it. I think both the criteria you've used (where clubs are now, what did some players go on to do) are rational, but far from conclusive and they don't really give a comparison as to whether the overall standard of football was better. There's just too many variables and it's too subjective. I remember the football then as being distinctly fourth tier, but of a reasonable standard nonetheless and largely enjoyable to watch whereas this season most teams have been bloody dire and the games have largely been dire to watch, although I quite enjoyed the Crewe game (but that was for entertainment value rather than any great standard of football). But that's just my view and as I have already said, I may well just be looking back on the Wise/Sturrock season with rose-tinted glasses. Think we'll have to agree to differ.


Title: Re: Flitcroft
Post by: Reg Smeeton on Wednesday, January 31, 2018, 17:39:36
This is the problem, there isn't an objective way of comparing it. I think both the criteria you've used (where clubs are now, what did some players go on to do) are rational, but far from conclusive and they don't really give a comparison as to whether the overall standard of football was better. There's just too many variables and it's too subjective. I remember the football then as being distinctly fourth tier, but of a reasonable standard nonetheless and largely enjoyable to watch whereas this season most teams have been bloody dire and the games have largely been dire to watch, although I quite enjoyed the Crewe game (but that was for entertainment value rather than any great standard of football). But that's just my view and as I have already said, I may well just be looking back on the Wise/Sturrock season with rose-tinted glasses. Think we'll have to agree to differ.

By way of justifying my test as fair, I'll offer a similar exercise from 3 seasons later when suggesting 09/10 was an unusually strong Div 3, with 7 strong sides in the running. That strength shown by what several of the players went on to do higher up.

Norwich. Fraser Forster, Chris Martin, Grant Holt, Wes Hoolahan

Leeds. Jonny Howson, Bradley Johnson, Jermaine Beckford, Robert Snodgrass, Max Gradel

Us. Charlie Austin. Jonathan Douglas

Charlton. Rob Elliot, Jonjoe Shelvey

Udders. Alex Smithies, Lee Peltier, Gary Roberts, Anthony Pilkington, Jordan Rhodes.

Soton. Kelvin Davis, Morgan Schneiderlein, Adam Lallana,  Rickey Lambert, Olly Lancashire  :)

Millwall somewhat bucked the trend by not really having a stand out individual. Steve Morison had a bit of a go higher up with Norwich and Leeds, but back to Millwall.





Title: Re: Flitcroft
Post by: Peter Venkman on Sunday, February 11, 2018, 12:27:02
I see Gareth Ainsworth the manager of our Tuesday opponents won the Manager of the Month in the end.


Title: Re: Flitcroft
Post by: Reg Smeeton on Sunday, February 11, 2018, 13:25:55
I see Gareth Ainsworth the manager of our Tuesday opponents won the Manager of the Month in the end.

Good news, gives us a chance on Tueday now.


Title: Re: Flitcroft
Post by: swindonmaniac on Sunday, February 11, 2018, 17:04:05
I see Gareth Ainsworth the manager of our Tuesday opponents won the Manager of the Month in the end.
Whòooooooopeee must be a win for us then.