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Non-Footy Forum => Sports => Topic started by: JoeMezz on Thursday, November 23, 2017, 00:48:22



Title: Ashes 17/18
Post by: JoeMezz on Thursday, November 23, 2017, 00:48:22
What do we think then? Both sides strength definitely their bowling, could be an exciting series.


Title: Re: Ashes 17/18
Post by: Munichred on Thursday, November 23, 2017, 01:00:46
Not soo confident. Any streaming links??


Title: Re: Ashes 17/18
Post by: Pax Romana on Thursday, November 23, 2017, 09:11:10
As good a start as we could reasonably hope for.  Encouraging thing is that the runs were made by Vince & Stoneman rather than Cook & Root. 

Only thing missing from this thread is someone posting that they have no interest in cricket.  That's always so invaluable.



Title: Re: Ashes 17/18
Post by: normy on Thursday, November 23, 2017, 09:45:16
Determined batting against very good bowling. BT Sport is doing a good job so far, enjoyed it.


Title: Re: Ashes 17/18
Post by: JoeMezz on Thursday, November 23, 2017, 09:58:32
Pitch is slow, 350 would be a good score.


Title: Re: Ashes 17/18
Post by: bamboonoshoe on Thursday, November 23, 2017, 12:37:36
As good a start as we could reasonably hope for.  Encouraging thing is that the runs were made by Vince & Stoneman rather than Cook & Root. 

Only thing missing from this thread is someone posting that they have no interest in cricket.  That's always so invaluable.



I have no interest in cricket.


Title: Re: Ashes 17/18
Post by: bamboonoshoe on Thursday, November 23, 2017, 13:03:52
I'm joking. I've kept wicket several times and although as my own critic I think i'm crap at it, I love playing the game. Also enjoy chilling out to watch the other (better) team players bat us to victory (or not).

Interesting start and Cook's Ashes in Australia stats, at the Gabba 1st Inns are fairly shocking apart from a 67, the rest are under 30. The 67 gives him an AVG of 23.25. No one really relishes opening at the Gabba though and he usually comes to the fore in the 2nd Inns. Once the pitch has quickened. He just got tempted into pushing one to be honest because up until then it was slow and steady (just like Boycott), which is what you need when you're getting accustomed to the wicket. Vince & Stoneman made a steady partnership which was encouraging and I'm sure Root will come good in 2nd Inns like Cook. Signs of a good and steady partnership with Ali & Malan. Which is imperative if we're to even break 300. Would be happy with 375 though on this pitch at this stage. Their batting doesn't look too great either so it's a bowler's ashes to take. Could it be time for Broad & Anderson to steal the show, yet again? Think Anderson would potentially retire from International Cricket if he has a good Ashes.

Agree with Normy, BTSport doing a sterling job. Informative, not too annoying. Well experienced favourites from both sides in the commentary and analysis teams. Something about TMS though, they always get their commentators right. This is why I think it's still going on the radio. Older lot yes, may not have access to Sky/BT/Virgin/Whatever, but also there's a young bunch of us that have also grown up with TMS on the wireless too. With the introduction of DAB into cars, the home, and other portable uses it holds it's own and if nothing else, there is a place for TMS on the radio/red button/laptop. It's come a far cry from manually tuning in and putting a bit of masking tape or paint in line with the needle. Personally when i'm in the top end of my garden and doing some work around the shed, I can't help but get the Roberts Radio out and tune in while I have a "rest" (and maybe a beer or two).

Here's to a hopefully great Ashes, unless you're following the Aussies then...


Title: Re: Ashes 17/18
Post by: fittons_coaching_badge on Thursday, November 23, 2017, 13:14:48
375 would be a terrific score.

My only concern is a new ball taken and if England are to get to 375 Malan, Moeen, YJB and Woakes will have to get most as I cant see Broad, Anderson and Ball getting 10 between then against Starcs Yorkers!

Australia strike a couple quickly tomorrow morning and getting to 250 could be tricky.


Title: Re: Ashes 17/18
Post by: bamboonoshoe on Thursday, November 23, 2017, 13:27:42
375 would be a terrific score.

My only concern is a new ball taken and if England are to get to 375 Malan, Moeen, YJB and Woakes will have to get most as I cant see Broad, Anderson and Ball getting 10 between then against Starcs Yorkers!

Australia strike a couple quickly tomorrow morning and getting to 250 could be tricky.


Pretty much agree. This Innings hangs on the Malan, Ali partnership building slowly with Bairstow joining one of them somewhere late into Day 2 (after Lunch). It's a big ask but it would allow Woakes to then come in around an hour before Tea  and add some distance to the score. All will be revealed at about 3am tomorrow and we'll have a better idea of where our 1st Inns score is going.


Title: Re: Ashes 17/18
Post by: Pax Romana on Thursday, November 23, 2017, 14:25:14
Yup agreed.  375 would be a fucking great score.  I'd take 350 right now.

I hope you're right about our bowlers having the edge over their batting.  Broad will come good somewhere (he's the archetypal  0-100 or 5-75 bowler) but I'm not convinced about Anderson in Australia. 


Title: Re: Ashes 17/18
Post by: Nemo on Thursday, November 23, 2017, 16:43:30
10 posts in a cricket thread and neither are me or Reg. It's a happy, happy day.

Relatively pleased with that start, not necessarily the scoreboard but Vince and Stoneman getting them rather than Root and Cook is huge for confidence. Lyon bowled very well today but sharp turn for day 1, think Moeen might have a nice time considering how well the Aussies usually play spin...


Title: Re: Ashes 17/18
Post by: JoeMezz on Thursday, November 23, 2017, 17:30:12
Agree with Normy, BTSport doing a sterling job. Informative, not too annoying. Well experienced favourites from both sides in the commentary and analysis teams. Something about TMS though, they always get their commentators right. This is why I think it's still going on the radio. Older lot yes, may not have access to Sky/BT/Virgin/Whatever, but also there's a young bunch of us that have also grown up with TMS on the wireless too. With the introduction of DAB into cars, the home, and other portable uses it holds it's own and if nothing else, there is a place for TMS on the radio/red button/laptop. It's come a far cry from manually tuning in and putting a bit of masking tape or paint in line with the needle. Personally when i'm in the top end of my garden and doing some work around the shed, I can't help but get the Roberts Radio out and tune in while I have a "rest" (and maybe a beer or two).

Cannot stand Boycott or Swann myself, Gilchrist, Ponting and Vaughn all very good in the first day, particularly the latter two gave great insight into captain's role in the Ashes. Excited for Day 2


Title: Re: Ashes 17/18
Post by: reeves4england on Thursday, November 23, 2017, 17:46:16
Set YouView to record the highlights this morning, but for some reason I got the Premiership Rugby show for the first haf hour so missed a fair bit of the cricket. Reasonable start to the test, and as has been said it's encouraging that runs have come from players other than Cook and Root.


Title: Re: Ashes 17/18
Post by: Legends-Lounge on Thursday, November 23, 2017, 21:49:45
Kick off 30 minutes earlier tonight due to the rain interruptions yesterday.


Title: Re: Ashes 17/18
Post by: Nomoreheroes on Thursday, November 23, 2017, 23:07:19
Would love to watch it - But am not getting BT Sport. If anything, it has made me think I might get rid of Sky too.


Title: Re: Ashes 17/18
Post by: Munichred on Thursday, November 23, 2017, 23:25:53
Regarding Cook and Root coming good in the second innings, an optimist might hope we won't need a second innings :-)


Title: Re: Ashes 17/18
Post by: bamboonoshoe on Thursday, November 23, 2017, 23:34:32
Would love to watch it - But am not getting BT Sport. If anything, it has made me think I might get rid of Sky too.
Someone told me that cricfree.sx does decent streams of this  ;)


Title: Re: Ashes 17/18
Post by: bamboonoshoe on Friday, November 24, 2017, 02:10:28
Here we go then. Real test now Malan has gone. A 50+ partnership with Ali & Bairstow would do. Then Woakes to add a few more. Scraps from the remainder. I'm going to call it at 350/All Out.


Title: Re: Ashes 17/18
Post by: bamboonoshoe on Friday, November 24, 2017, 03:03:44
I retract my statement! Buggar 300 would be nice now.


Title: Re: Ashes 17/18
Post by: Pax Romana on Friday, November 24, 2017, 07:43:39
I retract my statement! Buggar 300 would be nice now.

Could you really manage that many on your own?


Title: Re: Ashes 17/18
Post by: Nemo on Friday, November 24, 2017, 09:41:15
Interestingly poised day all round really. Need a good start tonight.


Title: Re: Ashes 17/18
Post by: JoeMezz on Friday, November 24, 2017, 12:01:06
Game hinges on the wicket of Smith. Bowled really well, set interesting creative fields. Don't think we did too much wrong really, get Smith early and we're right into them. Interesting game this.


Title: Re: Ashes 17/18
Post by: Nomoreheroes on Friday, November 24, 2017, 12:06:51
If the Aussies are skittled I wonder how England would respond?

Skittled themselves leaving the Aussies with a long time to get not many runs?

Or

Build a lead on day 3/4 with 1/2 days to take 10 wickets?

Not sure anyone knows, which makes it interesting.

P.S. Of course, the Aussies might build a big first innings lead tomorrow, which would put a completely different complexion on the match (and arguably the tour)


Title: Re: Ashes 17/18
Post by: fittons_coaching_badge on Friday, November 24, 2017, 12:24:34
Given the slow rate of scoring a lead of 50 either way would be massive.

Game hinges on Smith.  If England can get a couple of breakthroughs before the 2nd new ball in about 20 overs they will be right in this.

It was a bit concerning how Ali was unable to extract 1/10 of the turn Lyon found.


Title: Re: Ashes 17/18
Post by: Pax Romana on Saturday, November 25, 2017, 08:32:14
Lyon is in the Aus team as a front line spinner.  Ali is primarily a batsman who can bowl a bit of spin.

Not all over yet, if someone can make a big hundred and we can set them 250+ then that won't be a doddle batting last.   Looks like a big "if" at the moment however.


Title: Re: Ashes 17/18
Post by: bamboonoshoe on Saturday, November 25, 2017, 14:21:23
Lyon is in the Aus team as a front line spinner.  Ali is primarily a batsman who can bowl a bit of spin.

Not all over yet, if someone can make a big hundred and we can set them 250+ then that won't be a doddle batting last.   Looks like a big "if" at the moment however.

I think we will see a Root or Cook century in this coming Innings. More likely Cook.


Title: Re: Ashes 17/18
Post by: Nomoreheroes on Saturday, November 25, 2017, 21:28:40
I think we will see a Root or Cook century in this coming Innings. More likely Cook.
Lets hope more likely Root now that Cook fell 93 short!


Title: Re: Ashes 17/18
Post by: bamboonoshoe on Saturday, November 25, 2017, 21:39:19
Lets hope more likely Root now that Cook fell 93 short!

Apologies, my bad. I fell asleep after the Aussies were bowled out as I'd won my bet. Hadn't even checked to see how we'd got on before or even after posting that. A bit zombied! It was only when I read your "correction" that I decided to check  :pint: :pint: More beer needed!


Title: Re: Ashes 17/18
Post by: RobertT on Sunday, November 26, 2017, 05:49:01
Quite probably our worst batting line-up since the mid 90's


Title: Re: Ashes 17/18
Post by: ChChNZRED on Sunday, November 26, 2017, 07:19:18
Having the luxury of living in NZ and watching most of today's play, i have never see so many piss weak dismissals in a innings. Especially at crucial points of the game. Don't even see that in my grade of cricket i play on Saturdays.

Aus aren't that flash with the ball and you get Smith and Warner out they tend to fail. They should've played Overton this test and they should look to call Leach into the squad. Come the boxing day test this series will be over and Ballance will get another chance to fail. It's one the worst Ashes squads i have witnessed.

Root's a class batsmen but his conversion rate from 50 to 100 is appalling. Where Smiths is brilliant, and Root technically has an issue anything straight his head falls over to be pinned LBW twice isn't flash.

They come over here to NZ after and i would'nt be surprised if Cook retires and we get demolished by a fairly average cricket team.

 


Title: Re: Ashes 17/18
Post by: Ardiles on Sunday, November 26, 2017, 10:05:27
For all the talk of Test cricket being the purest form of the game, and the elegies to 'ebb & flow'...match situations like this really highlight the downside of the format.  Australia have basically won, except they haven't.  It's satisfying for neither side.

The conclusion, that we all already know the shape of, will be watched by a handful of retirees before they head off for their Monday lunch.  It's like halting a horse race two furlongs from the end with the eventual winner way out in front...and telling the punters to come back tomorrow to watch the horse cross the line.  Most wouldn't bother.


Title: Re: Ashes 17/18
Post by: JoeMezz on Sunday, November 26, 2017, 14:53:33
This stinks of few years ago, poor openers and flaking under pressure. 5-0 could be on the cards


Title: Re: Ashes 17/18
Post by: RobertT on Sunday, November 26, 2017, 18:08:56
How many of our batsmen have averaged over 40 in the past two years?  I would hazard a guess at one.  For all the media hyperbole, Stokes, Ali, Bairstow, Woakes etc. are just handy test all rounder style batsmen, you shouldn’t have a team of them.Ali has to get in the team on batting alone, and then you struggle to make a case with everyone else only managing to average between 20 and 30.

The bowling is too reliant on Anderson and on Broad having a worldwide spell.


Title: Re: Ashes 17/18
Post by: Paolo69 on Monday, November 27, 2017, 14:27:36
How many of our batsmen have averaged over 40 in the past two years?  I would hazard a guess at one.  For all the media hyperbole, Stokes, Ali, Bairstow, Woakes etc. are just handy test all rounder style batsmen, you shouldn’t have a team of them.Ali has to get in the team on batting alone, and then you struggle to make a case with everyone else only managing to average between 20 and 30.

The bowling is too reliant on Anderson and on Broad having a worldwide spell.

Bairstow's test average is 39 and given how poorly he started his career then i'd guess his is 40+ the last few years. Cook averages 46 overall and while he hasn't enjoyed the purple patches of a few years ago recently i'd be surprised if he was under 40 too. Stokes and Ali average about 35. I'm sure every team would love to be able to pick Steve Smith but these lads are decent players. We lost the Test mainly because no one on our side could match Steve Smith's contribution and the conditions suited their bowlers more than ours.

I'm pissed off about it too but let's not get carried away...


Title: Re: Ashes 17/18
Post by: Reg Smeeton on Monday, November 27, 2017, 16:37:26
I'm pissed off about it too but let's not get carried away...

It's only cricket...

Here's a suitable theme tune

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g9nGalzYRp4



Title: Re: Ashes 17/18
Post by: RobertT on Monday, November 27, 2017, 19:13:57
Bairstow's test average is 39 and given how poorly he started his career then i'd guess his is 40+ the last few years. Cook averages 46 overall and while he hasn't enjoyed the purple patches of a few years ago recently i'd be surprised if he was under 40 too. Stokes and Ali average about 35. I'm sure every team would love to be able to pick Steve Smith but these lads are decent players. We lost the Test mainly because no one on our side could match Steve Smith's contribution and the conditions suited their bowlers more than ours.

I'm pissed off about it too but let's not get carried away...

Aussie being average is the only thing keeping us in the hunt.  They do have two bowlers averaging 25, whereas out best is just under 28 and we have one bowler in three figures!  Ali's bowling average back-up the fact he should not be considered as one of the bowlers.  personally, I'd have him in the top 5, maybe number 4 and push Root up the order.  Bairstow has to be number 6 - he appears to get dragged into giving his wicket away when batting with the tail.  Personally I'd then have tried out Hales at 5, but it's too late for that now, we wasted the summer messing about with players.  I am still not sure Ali is worthy of a top 6 slot given his average thus far, but he's a better bet than Vince or Malan.

The bowling then needs an all rounder, which Woakes should fill under normal circumstances, a spinner and 3 front line bowlers.  Ball does not appear to be one, we need another one in the team averaging less than 30 a wicket at least.

Play that same XI for the rest of the series and we probably lose 3 or 4 to 1 (we might stand a chance in the next game under the lights).


Title: Re: Ashes 17/18
Post by: Oaksey Moonraker on Monday, November 27, 2017, 23:01:56
How many of our batsmen have averaged over 40 in the past two years?  I would hazard a guess at one.  For all the media hyperbole, Stokes, Ali, Bairstow, Woakes etc. are just handy test all rounder style batsmen, you shouldn’t have a team of them.Ali has to get in the team on batting alone, and then you struggle to make a case with everyone else only managing to average between 20 and 30.

The bowling is too reliant on Anderson and on Broad having a worldwide spell.

One of the problems is our batsmen seem happy to pick up the 40 and 50 scores which retains a place in the side and not back it up in a second innings for example when really under pressure or convert into big scores in that position. They are great when a 100 runs ahead and need to add quick runs. Another 50 odd runs in either innings in Brisbane and there was more pressure on the Aussies that could have changed the result.


Title: Re: Ashes 17/18
Post by: JoeMezz on Monday, November 27, 2017, 23:03:27
Stokes on his way to Aus


Title: Re: Ashes 17/18
Post by: Ells on Monday, November 27, 2017, 23:43:01
Stokes on his way to Aus

Or not
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/42146537


Title: Re: Ashes 17/18
Post by: JoeMezz on Tuesday, November 28, 2017, 00:56:33
Or not
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/42146537

Got a friend at Newcastle uni (ooh friend), who's played for Gloucestershire 1st's who is in a group chat with Phil Mustard and Mustard seems to think charges are dropped and Stokes is playing in the third test, so we shall see.


Title: Re: Ashes 17/18
Post by: bamboonoshoe on Tuesday, November 28, 2017, 15:05:14
Got a friend at Newcastle uni (ooh friend), who's played for Gloucestershire 1st's who is in a group chat with Phil Mustard and Mustard seems to think charges are dropped and Stokes is playing in the third test, so we shall see.

Bloody need him. Time for him to put a few ghosts to bed and prove his worth. It's only going to take one player to shine because lets face it. Smith (for the Aussies) is being made to look shit hot when really he's probably a bit more than above average. The Ashes always hinges on someone taking it by the balls. Laboured Innings do not make legendary or memorable cricketers. Respect yes, because to stay in for 7/8 hrs and only score say 120 ish takes a lot of patience and concentration. No one will remember that though. Someone has to come in (for the sake of the Test game), entertain us and their opponent. Can Stokes do that?

Time will tell, he has a second chance so let's hope he takes it!



Title: Re: Ashes 17/18
Post by: RedRag on Tuesday, November 28, 2017, 17:58:50
It would be great if charges are not pressed against Stokes leaving him free to join England in the third test

I think both sides are below par at Test level.

For those who find test cricket too long drawn out or boring, the pitch didn't aid spectacular or even positive cricket.  In the context of the match, Steve Smith's innings was pivotal and just tipped the match initiative away from England to the Aussies.  Cook's failures, by contrast, heaped pressure on a young team.  That will have to change if England are to make a fist of this series.

Not sure that Malan, Vince and Stoneman (impliedly as one of the openers) deserved to be adversely picked out.  I would have looked to the more experienced players  to regret in this case.  Credit also to just 4 bowlers really, namely Hazelwood, Cummins and Starc, alongside Lyon, for ultimately asking more questions than England's rather unpenetrative attack.

I certainly didn't find the part sessions I was able to watch boring, last day aside.  Nor would I have found the last day boring had the match positions of the teams been reversed.

We have different types of pitch to look forward to now.  As Mark Cooper might have said "we go again Saturday" and certainly the first one or two times, that left me excited.


Title: Re: Ashes 17/18
Post by: tans on Tuesday, November 28, 2017, 18:34:41
Surely he could be picked now? Being out of the country and all?


Title: Re: Ashes 17/18
Post by: JoeMezz on Tuesday, November 28, 2017, 19:42:04
Surely he could be picked now? Being out of the country and all?


My guess would be that he would be jet lagged, unacclimatised and out of practice, therefore making the third test more appropriate. The need for him in the 2nd test is less strong as Adelaide Day/night conditions should suit our bowlers, ball swinging under lights and all that.


Title: Re: Ashes 17/18
Post by: kirky69 on Saturday, December 2, 2017, 04:28:42
Interesting decision to bowl first. Need early wickets. Come on England. Going out for the Sydney test and realistically think we need to win this one to have a chance in the series.


Title: Re: Ashes 17/18
Post by: donkey on Saturday, December 2, 2017, 11:04:42
Could happily have more d/n tests in Australia, nice way to start a Saturday. A few more wickets would make it even nicer.


Title: Re: Ashes 17/18
Post by: Nemo on Saturday, December 2, 2017, 13:55:57
Yes, great to be able to watch a full session without ruining my sleeping pattern. Good first test wicket for Craig Overton as they go, but not sure about the decision to field first. Need early brekathroughs tomorrow.


Title: Re: Ashes 17/18
Post by: Private Fraser on Sunday, December 3, 2017, 10:07:56
England's bowling figures after 3 Aussie innings:

943 runs, 18 wickets at an average of 52.39 and S/R of 109.83

  :eek:


Title: Re: Ashes 17/18
Post by: sonicyouth on Sunday, December 3, 2017, 11:02:43
I can't see past another 5-0 drubbing at this point


Title: Re: Ashes 17/18
Post by: RedRag on Sunday, December 3, 2017, 12:24:32
My head agrees with Sonic but there's still everything to play for.  To go 2 down would be terminal I fear.

Private Fraser's stats were interesting  The bear out the general impression I have gleaned from the play I have been able to watch.   Anderson was a little unlucky in the opening session but Aussies were once again patient and pretty much untroubled.


Title: Re: Ashes 17/18
Post by: sonicyouth on Sunday, December 3, 2017, 12:32:25
The rain breaks could potentially save us but from what I've seen, heard and read we're miles behind the Aussies in all departments.


Title: Re: Ashes 17/18
Post by: Pax Romana on Sunday, December 3, 2017, 13:03:49
To go 2 down would be terminal I fear.

Agreed.  We need to somehow get to Sydney only one down. 

I still believe Australia are not a particularly good team and if we could put them under some pressure late on in the series then we might just nick an unlikely drawn series.  The prospect of losing by 4 or 5  is looming rather larger however.  What a shit weekend sports-wise.



Title: Re: Ashes 17/18
Post by: RobertT on Monday, December 4, 2017, 06:08:59
Well. lets look like we are trying for the 5-0 whitewash.  lacking anything in the bowling attack, which is to be expected with our bowlers having such poor averages, and same goes for the batsmen, who continue to show that their averages are a good enough reflection of their abilities.  Seems that yet another quality batsman could be undone by the captaincy as well.

This lot really are going to give the mid 90's group a run for their money.  They can  barely see themselves fit to see out a session, let alone a day.  We can't seem to have teams capable of playing in multiple forms of the game, it's either Test or One Day, never both.  This lot are clearly only any good at a game that requires minimal thought and application.


Title: Re: Ashes 17/18
Post by: RedRag on Monday, December 4, 2017, 07:52:00
153-7.  Would have expected a couple from Cook, Root, Moeen and Bairstow to have made some sort of score beyond 20 or 30 or so.  Good point RobertT on Root.  Now compounding left field, backfiring choice to field first with just 9.  Dismal weekend's sport.


Title: Re: Ashes 17/18
Post by: Nemo on Monday, December 4, 2017, 10:03:14
On the bright side, Somerset provided the top wicket taker and top run scorer in the first innings'


Title: Re: Ashes 17/18
Post by: JoeMezz on Monday, December 4, 2017, 12:01:20
Terrific session for us, can only see us being able to chase 300 though (and that's a push). Good that we showed some fight.


Title: Re: Ashes 17/18
Post by: RobertT on Monday, December 4, 2017, 14:12:03
You'd probably have to say that they already have enough, not sure what has got into captains these days in not enforcing follow-on's - we were there for the taking.


Title: Re: Ashes 17/18
Post by: Nemo on Monday, December 4, 2017, 14:46:10
You'd probably have to say that they already have enough, not sure what has got into captains these days in not enforcing follow-on's - we were there for the taking.

You can kinda understand it as they have a four man attack and at least two of them are pretty significant injury risks. Yes, they'd likely have demolished us tonight but it could easily have seemed an unnecessary risk.


Title: Re: Ashes 17/18
Post by: RedRag on Monday, December 4, 2017, 18:16:45
Yeah, 4 man attack.  It's a lot to ask them to continue.  But hey by the time they are tempted to make sure they have enough runs and with a bit of weather, who knows, they might run out of time.

Precipitation presently rated at 0% for tomorrow, 10% for Wednesday and 50% for Thursday.  Hurry on weather.

The scent of Pommie blood may have given the Auusie 4 the necessary adrenalin though?


Title: Re: Ashes 17/18
Post by: Nemo on Tuesday, December 5, 2017, 09:50:05
Bowled really well for the first time in the series but too far behind at this stage you'd think. Need another 260 or so, need the right handers to score the runs because Lyon is doing disgusting things to the lefties.

Edit: and Vince goes caught in the cordon. That is a very typical Vince dismissal.


Title: Re: Ashes 17/18
Post by: Nemo on Tuesday, December 5, 2017, 12:05:32
Hope is a horrible temptress.


Title: Re: Ashes 17/18
Post by: Batch on Tuesday, December 5, 2017, 12:09:39
Hope is a horrible temptress.

Use your head to play the odds. We aren't going to do it.


Title: Re: Ashes 17/18
Post by: Private Fraser on Tuesday, December 5, 2017, 12:13:23
No, I'm afraid we're not.  It's not a bad effort but, if as seems inevitable, it turns out to be another 'heroic failure', it'll be because the top order just weren't up to the job.


Title: Re: Ashes 17/18
Post by: RedRag on Tuesday, December 5, 2017, 13:48:53
We're f*cked.

Let's not put the mockers on making the highest 4th innings winning score, eh?


Title: Re: Ashes 17/18
Post by: bamboonoshoe on Tuesday, December 5, 2017, 14:59:12
Could easily hold out the draw. Having said that there's a potential of around 70/80 overs to bowl in the final day. avg 2 runs per over and this could go close. Hold our nerve and we could frustrate the Aussies and win it. Oh as boring as it would be to the viewer, how this game needs a Geoffrey Boycott. Chipping off singles with a calmness that says "You aren't going to get me out and you know it." Sadly I don't believe we have that right now. Root is showing a steady 2nd Innings and Woakes could be the one to keep that ticking. If Root can keep his nerve, I can see him dribbling over 100, maybe 125. A 40 or 50 from Woakes would be a stunning compliment. A partnership of 110. Have Bairstow & Overton got a couple of laboured 30's in them. Well combined yes if the 1st Innings is anything to go by. We know Moeen Ali can pic up 20 or more and Broad is capable of a few long slogs to get a quick 15/20 to then be dismissed. Yes the hope gets you but if in this test you ever needed a man to step up to the plate then, like Smith did for the Aussies in the 1st Test, Root has to be the man and do it for England in the 2nd Test.  All to play for and a better Test for the neutral this time round.


Title: Re: Ashes 17/18
Post by: Pax Romana on Tuesday, December 5, 2017, 23:37:54
We're not going to pull off the miracle and I'd be amazed if we even come remotely close.

This is a below par Aussie team bullying an abject England & Wales team.


Title: Re: Ashes 17/18
Post by: JoeMezz on Tuesday, December 5, 2017, 23:44:15
Alarm set for 3.30. Expect to have sacked it all off and asleep again at 4, when we are 7 wickets down and hope is lost. We shall see though.


Title: Re: Ashes 17/18
Post by: Wobbly Bob on Wednesday, December 6, 2017, 01:42:22
Just need to play sensible cricket. No wafting outside off stump, leave the short stuff alone and pick off the bad balls. Job done, what could possibly go wrong.
Reality will probably be getting rolled over well before lunch.
Will try and clamber out of the pit to watch, should be fascinating stuff.


Title: Re: Ashes 17/18
Post by: bamboonoshoe on Wednesday, December 6, 2017, 03:19:01
Just need to play sensible cricket. No wafting outside off stump, leave the short stuff alone and pick off the bad balls. Job done, what could possibly go wrong.
Reality will probably be getting rolled over well before lunch.
Will try and clamber out of the pit to watch, should be fascinating stuff.

Sensible Test Cricket indeed. Leave the slogging to Broad when we need 5 from 11 balls for a nervy finish.


Title: Re: Ashes 17/18
Post by: bamboonoshoe on Wednesday, December 6, 2017, 04:47:11
Well a bit of fight in this session would've been nice! Joe Mezz, you can go back to bed...


Title: Re: Ashes 17/18
Post by: RobertT on Wednesday, December 6, 2017, 06:19:50
Just need to play sensible cricket. No wafting outside off stump, leave the short stuff alone and pick off the bad balls. Job done, what could possibly go wrong.
Reality will probably be getting rolled over well before lunch.
Will try and clamber out of the pit to watch, should be fascinating stuff.

Hope you failed to get-up!

This team is at best mediocre.  Top 6 out for less than 200 on such a regular basis.

Broad was practically batting from behind the stumps.  With his batting having collapsed, his place must come under pressure without a regular return on the wickets.

Ali - if he can't be fucked to be a proper batsmen, then he gets picked on his bowling, and that isn't good enough either.

Bairstow - needs to bat in the top order, the only one who looks like he has ability at times.

Vince and Malan can sit in economy on the way home.  Ponting summed Malan up - essentilly saying he offers nothing, so even though he might get out to a good ball, he doesn't do enough to threaten any bowler meaning they can wait until the peach is bowled without fear of him running up a score.

Overton - probably deserves another shot for effort.

Cook - if everyone else wasn't so shit he'd have lost his place.  As we have done such a bad job at bedding in Strauss' replacement he has to be in the side but he's playing a dangerous game.

Root - he really needs to convert a few, but he is bar far and away our best batsman.

So basically, we have two good players and one in Bairstow who maybe could be again if handled properly.  Nobody in the remaining 8 is showing enough often enough to be of test quality (Woakes clearly can be, he needs to repeat that bowling performance though).


Title: Re: Ashes 17/18
Post by: RedRag on Wednesday, December 6, 2017, 06:22:16
Goodnight Eileen.  Back for one hour's kip I'd rather not have had at the start of play.  

Bottom line is there were only a couple of 50 partnerships and we would have lost by 10 wickets but for Smith's mistake (well called by Robert T) in not asking us to bat again.

WACA next and 5-0 beckons


Title: Re: Ashes 17/18
Post by: RobertT on Wednesday, December 6, 2017, 06:37:44
No, I'm afraid we're not.  It's not a bad effort but, if as seems inevitable, it turns out to be another 'heroic failure', it'll be because the top order just weren't up to the job.

I am fairly confident that this won't go down as a heroic defeat.


Title: Re: Ashes 17/18
Post by: Private Fraser on Wednesday, December 6, 2017, 10:19:40
I am fairly confident that this won't go down as a heroic defeat.

Yeah. What was I thinking?!  Won't be making that mistake again anytime soon.  :badmood:


Title: Re: Ashes 17/18
Post by: JoeMezz on Wednesday, December 6, 2017, 14:51:44
Well a bit of fight in this session would've been nice! Joe Mezz, you can go back to bed...

Stayed up til the end, couldn’t get back to sleep so thought I’d just watch our demise. Don’t think it was in our favour that Australia had no reviews left, but deserved to lose anyway. Bairstow has to bat higher, and I would like to see Foakes in there


Title: Re: Ashes 17/18
Post by: Posh Red on Wednesday, December 6, 2017, 21:04:05
England have one or two good days in a test match, which is fine if you battle through the other three.

The problem is when England don't have a good day they are woeful, and against any decent opposition that's going to cost them.

You can see a 5-0 coming


Title: Re: Ashes 17/18
Post by: michael on Thursday, December 7, 2017, 10:53:35
We have too many southpaws in the middle order and tail.

Malan out for Ben Foakes (scored 80+ for the Lions, and is a better fielder too). Middle order is then Vince (rh), Root (rh), Foakes (rh), and potentially Bairstow (rh) and maybe even Woakes (rh) ahead of Ali (lh), Broad (lh), Jimmy (lh).

Lyon has taken 1 wicket against right handers and averages 100+ against them. A succession of right handers would see him out of the attack, and the pacemen having to bowl more. And then we hope.


Title: Re: Ashes 17/18
Post by: JoeMezz on Thursday, December 7, 2017, 18:15:42
Cook
Stoneman
Root
Bairstow
Vince
Foakes
Ali
Woakes
Overton
Broad
Anderson

Would be my line up for next test


Title: Re: Ashes 17/18
Post by: RobertT on Thursday, December 7, 2017, 18:48:38
Almost how I'd go.  I'd have Ali in at 5 - he doesn't eanr a spot as a bowler in my eyes so he has to be in as a batsman he probably has a bit more than Vince in terms of threat.  Let hi be a batsemn, tell him that is his focus and he can earn his spot or not.

Then Woakes and Overton can work out which one is an all rounder and the other needs to be a frontline bowler, aiming for a sub 30 per wicket average.  We need to begin looking for Broad's replacement as well.  A bowler who does something different.  You then get Crane in as the spin option as we are not good enough to play with 4 bowlers at the moment.  The team still gets beat, but everyone needs to know their roles.


Title: Re: Ashes 17/18
Post by: RedRag on Thursday, December 7, 2017, 20:46:30
Lyon has taken 1 wicket against right handers and averages 100+ against them. A succession of right handers would see him out of the attack, and the pacemen having to bowl more. And then we hope.

You're certainly right in that Lyon has loved bowling to the left handers.  Lyon's wicket taking and average is much, much inferior at the Waca and Sydney and pretty modest at Melbourne too.  All the more reason to be in a better position to get after him and raise the pressure and workload on Starc, Cummins and Hazelwood - assuming they don't just skittle us anyway.  Not sure of Aussie options but, if I were an Aussie selector, I may be tempted to bring in a further quick if one were available for the next test (and even drop Lyon :hmmm:)


Title: Re: Ashes 17/18
Post by: Nemo on Thursday, December 14, 2017, 11:06:57
305/4 after Day 1 at the WACA with Malan and Bairstow putting on 174 for the fifth wicket.

Now that's the kind of day we haven't had all series. A bit late, but good to see all the same.


Title: Re: Ashes 17/18
Post by: Reg Smeeton on Thursday, December 14, 2017, 11:16:33
305/4 after Day 1 at the WACA with Malan and Bairstow putting on 174 for the fifth wicket.

Now that's the kind of day we haven't had all series. A bit late, but good to see all the same.

We've had good days, but not managed to back that up; that is the requirement. I still have the odd sleepless night about the Adelaide 2007 Test when we declared 1st innings at 500 odd for 6, Colly got a double ton and put on 310 with KP... we still lost  :(


Title: Re: Ashes 17/18
Post by: RobertT on Thursday, December 14, 2017, 13:40:41
A good effort, although top order still putting pressure on the middle/lower order, but today they responded.  Finally someone pushes onto a score, hopefully they keep adding pressure and get to 450.  That way at least we have some runs to put some pressure on their batsmen if any wobbles occur.  The bowling line-up still worries me though, but even a draw would be progress.


Title: Re: Ashes 17/18
Post by: Reg Smeeton on Thursday, December 14, 2017, 15:14:54
A good effort, although top order still putting pressure on the middle/lower order, but today they responded.  Finally someone pushes onto a score, hopefully they keep adding pressure and get to 450.  That way at least we have some runs to put some pressure on their batsmen if any wobbles occur.  The bowling line-up still worries me though, but even a draw would be progress.

Draws are quite rare in Test cricket these days unless weather intervenes. 450 is probably nowhere near enough.


Title: Re: Ashes 17/18
Post by: fittons_coaching_badge on Thursday, December 14, 2017, 15:43:27
Draws are quite rare in Test cricket these days unless weather intervenes. 450 is probably nowhere near enough.

Reg is probably right about this.

Australia have generally been able to force a wicket due to their extra pace.

Flat pitch + Lightning outfield mean I worry tomorrow could be the day David Warner tees off.

450 will get England in the game.  500+ would see them in front. Collapse in a heap for less than 400 tomorrow morning and tell the fat lady to empty her throat! 


Title: Re: Ashes 17/18
Post by: Batch on Saturday, December 16, 2017, 10:14:12
OH.
Bugger.


Title: Re: Ashes 17/18
Post by: kirky69 on Saturday, December 16, 2017, 11:54:53
What a time to be a Swindon and England supporter. Makes you appreciate the good times when they arrive though. Off to Sydney in 2 weeks, looking forward to the barmy army experience, think the cricket may be a side show now as 5-0 looms although we may perform well in what is likely to be a dead rubber. Last series for Cook.


Title: Re: Ashes 17/18
Post by: RobertT on Sunday, December 17, 2017, 17:26:25
Same old problems - which is not unexpected with the same players.  I am beginning to wonder if the set-up behind he scenes has flipped to one day as the primary focus, given how bad we were and the flak we were taking.  Do we have the right people trying to build a Test team?  Even Strauss is culpable, he never sounded that inspirational as a pundit.