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Non-Footy Forum => The Nevillew General Discussion Forum => Topic started by: herthab on Wednesday, April 19, 2017, 08:03:47



Title: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: herthab on Wednesday, April 19, 2017, 08:03:47
I've set it up so you can change your choice, if something happens over the next few weeks to make you rethink your selection...


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Iffy's Onion Bhaji on Wednesday, April 19, 2017, 08:12:09
Not voting at the moment. All a load of wankers. I will probably get swayed by one of them though, because I'm a gullible cunt like everyone else. I just hope it isn't all about Brexit. There are other important issues which need to be addressed.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: ghanimah on Wednesday, April 19, 2017, 08:19:05
Can we have spoiled ballot option...?


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: herthab on Wednesday, April 19, 2017, 08:20:56
Can we have spoiled ballot option...?

Done.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: ghanimah on Wednesday, April 19, 2017, 08:26:06
Done.

Thanks


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: theakston2k on Wednesday, April 19, 2017, 08:32:51
This is much like the South Park spin on the American election we've got the choice between a giant douche and a turd sandwich. I couldn't bring myself to vote for May as there's no way she's a world leader and on the flip side you have Corbin who just can't be allowed anywhere near running the country.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: herthab on Wednesday, April 19, 2017, 08:42:52
This is much like the South Park spin on the American election we've got the choice between a giant douche and a turd sandwich. I couldn't bring myself to vote for May as there's no way she's a world leader and on the flip side you have Corbin who just can't be allowed anywhere near running the country.

Why? Have you looked at his policies?


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Panda Paws on Wednesday, April 19, 2017, 09:14:15
Policies are irrelevant without the ability/respect of the house to get them through.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Leggett on Wednesday, April 19, 2017, 09:14:23
At the minute I'll be voting Labour, unless someone else springs a surprise. The country has been crying out for something different as the previous Labour government seemed to be Tory-lite, Corbyn comes along and the media portray him as some lazy schmuck who doesn't care. He talks a lot of sense to me.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: sonicyouth on Wednesday, April 19, 2017, 09:23:05
Do people deliberately misspell Corbin?

I don't know who I'll vote for yet. I don't know where I'll be living as I move on the 5th, how does it work if I've moved from one constituency to another during an election?

Chances are I'll be somewhere in Toryland still.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Leggett on Wednesday, April 19, 2017, 09:57:18
Do people deliberately misspell Corbin?

Pretty sure it's Corbyn... (http://'https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeremy_Corbyn')


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Reg Smeeton on Wednesday, April 19, 2017, 09:57:47
Do people deliberately misspell Corbin?

I don't know who I'll vote for yet. I don't know where I'll be living as I move on the 5th, how does it work if I've moved from one constituency to another during an election?

Chances are I'll be somewhere in Toryland still.

Good question.... I'd imagine you will vote in the constituency in which you've registered. However, I could be wrong.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Tails on Wednesday, April 19, 2017, 10:02:11
My constituency is overwhelmingly Tory so my vote will make little difference... But I'll vote for the nearest challenger, unless its UKIP.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: THE FLASH on Wednesday, April 19, 2017, 10:08:13
My constituency is overwhelmingly Tory so my vote will make little difference... But I'll vote for the nearest challenger, unless its UKIP.

Ditto


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Abrahammer on Wednesday, April 19, 2017, 10:16:41
Policies are irrelevant without the ability/respect of the house to get them through.

Plus opposition parties throughout history have produced crowd pleasing policies knowing that should they get into government they can brush them under carpet. Parties are rarely held accountable for pre-election policy promises they aren't implemented


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Samdy Gray on Wednesday, April 19, 2017, 10:18:45
Undecided at the moment.

I'm interested to see what happens in the upcoming council elections, that will be a good indicator of public sentiment.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: pauld on Wednesday, April 19, 2017, 10:36:02
Interesting to see May's already bottled a TV debate. Worried about getting out-charisma'd by Corbyn and Farron? Jesus.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: LucienSanchez on Wednesday, April 19, 2017, 10:47:26
I live in Swindon South, so it'll be Buckland's biggest challenger for me... probably Labour I'd imagine


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: horlock07 on Wednesday, April 19, 2017, 10:59:04
Interesting to see May's already bottled a TV debate. Worried about getting out-charisma'd by Corbyn and Farron? Jesus.

Its become clear during PMQ's that she is entirely shit at thinking on her feet and cannot deliver unprepared bollocks unless its written down.

One thing Cameroon did have going for him was that he could talk bollocks, not answer a question and you would not be immediately sure he was being an evasive wanker until you properly stopped and thought about it. If May cannot answer the question and tries to bluster its blindingly obvious (see also Rudd, A) that she is talking shite.

Farron is OK but not great, Corbyn has been half decent in PMQ's recently and made May look a bit of a fuckwit, but I don't know whether than him, or just they have improved the abilities of his handlers!

As for who to vote for, I just cannot see if one voted to remain how one can vote for the Tory Labour coalition on Brexit (although that may change if Corbyn gets shafted), cannot vote green as from personal experience they are lying wankers so gonna be another Lib Dem vote, which as I live in Lib Demville up here will probably not achieve a great deal.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Riddick on Wednesday, April 19, 2017, 11:11:48
Interesting to see May's already bottled a TV debate. Worried about getting out-charisma'd by Corbyn and Farron? Jesus.

Its less about bottle and more about what she has to lose. They have a 20 point lead in the polls that is never going to get wider so a public debate for her can only weaken her position. Much like advice i give to idiots at work regularly, better to stay silent and have people assume you are stupid than open your mouth and prove it!


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: jayohaitchenn on Wednesday, April 19, 2017, 11:37:28
If you live in either Swindon seat, then the only choice (if you don't want the Torys to win) is Labour.

There's a link on this page to a tactical voting system for every constituency in the country:

https://www.reddit.com/r/unitedkingdom/comments/6626e9/how_to_tactfully_vote_to_stop_the_tories_on_8th/


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Pax Romana on Wednesday, April 19, 2017, 11:41:16
I hate tactical voting.  Vote for who you believe in.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Bogus Dave on Wednesday, April 19, 2017, 11:48:29
Nah fuck that, vote for whoever gets the cunts out. Although What I've heard so far doesn't sound like the lib dems are particularly open to a pre-election 'axis against evil' against the Tories

According to one of those online polls the party which most aligns to my views are the SNP, so I'm moving to Edinburgh


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Tails on Wednesday, April 19, 2017, 11:59:19
I hate tactical voting.  Vote for who you believe in.

I hate the tories more


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: jayohaitchenn on Wednesday, April 19, 2017, 12:15:07
Tactical voting is a necessary evil with the voting system we use.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Iffy's Onion Bhaji on Wednesday, April 19, 2017, 12:31:30
It's fine getting the Tory's out but where are the viable options to replace them? That's the reason they'll get in again.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Stevens on Wednesday, April 19, 2017, 12:33:55
Doesn't really matter who I vote for in my neck of the woods, it is so Blue it only needs about 20% turnover for the Tories to win.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: horlock07 on Wednesday, April 19, 2017, 12:42:10
And yet another rat deserts http://www.standard.co.uk/news/poli...-is-leaving-westminster-for-now-a3518001.html


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: mystical_goat on Wednesday, April 19, 2017, 12:45:22
Corbyn and Labour for me.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Nemo on Wednesday, April 19, 2017, 12:52:32
I'll vote Lib Dem but considering my constituency (South West Wilts) voted 70% Cons + UKIP in 2015, I may as well vote Bald Brummy.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: horlock07 on Wednesday, April 19, 2017, 13:07:26
I'll vote Lib Dem but considering my constituency (South West Wilts) voted 70% Cons + UKIP in 2015, I may as well vote Bald Brummy.

Dunno, look at Witney and Richmond.....


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: hefty toe on Wednesday, April 19, 2017, 13:14:07
Lib Dem or Conservative depending on their policy proposals.  I live in a strong Labour London seat (60% majority), so it won't make any difference.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Nemo on Wednesday, April 19, 2017, 13:20:48
Dunno, look at Witney and Richmond.....

Yes, but South West Wiltshire is not a heavily remain leaning wealthy urban area. In fact, it's none of those things.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Peter Venkman on Wednesday, April 19, 2017, 13:29:19
I want to vote Labour, but it won't mean much as the Tories took the seat here for the first time in nearly 40 years from Lib Dems in the last election by 6,000 votes with a 42% share of the voters.

labour on the other hand down here polled just 4,000 votes a 7% share of the voters.

Always been fairly safe seat for Paddy Ashdown and David Laws until the last election, I don't want the Tories to win so I may have to tactically vote.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: ghanimah on Wednesday, April 19, 2017, 13:45:24
Interesting to see May's already bottled a TV debate. Worried about getting out-charisma'd by Corbyn and Farron? Jesus.

Personally I don't agree with the concept of leaders' debates - for the simple reason we don't directly elect them.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Power to people on Wednesday, April 19, 2017, 13:45:47
Sadly if the polls are correct labour will be wiped out during these elections and will take many years to get themselves back into a position to be a credible alternative.

I don't trust May she fills me with dread with what she is going to do to thid country, especially wuiht the NHS & education, and some of the things Corbyn comes out with you can see why he couldn't be trusted in the hotseat, Lib Dems are not even credible any more and UKIP....just a bit of a joke.

Sadly it seems we are in for more Tory rule with a bigger majority to make it much easier to push their policies through without any tough questions.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Batch on Wednesday, April 19, 2017, 13:46:38
Bit of a difficult one. Maybe tactical.

Obviously not voting Tory. As a remainer I feel they have shafted the country.

Labour are an absolute shambles.

Lib Dems are a bunch of spineless sellouts who sold out their manifesto principles during the last power share and betrayed my vote.



Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: pauld on Wednesday, April 19, 2017, 13:55:47
Personally I don't agree with the concept of leaders' debates - for the simple reason we don't directly elect them.
Completely agree, think it's a horrible Americanism, but still thought it was interesting that she clearly doesn't back herself in the hardly charisma-laden company of Corbyn and Farron


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: theakston2k on Wednesday, April 19, 2017, 14:09:57
Do people deliberately misspell Corbin?
On this occasion autocorrect on my phone took over. 

But it's a sad state of affairs when you have a largely hated party accompanied by such an uncharacteristic leader as May with no credible alternative.
Corbyn isn't even trusted or supported by his own MP's so how he expects to challenge in an election lord only knows, Labour are an unelectable mess at the moment.
Lib Dems sold their soul to the devil to be part of the coalition and as for the rest... I'd rather not.

What a choice we have!


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: horlock07 on Wednesday, April 19, 2017, 14:28:01
So its clear from here that turn out is likely to be incredibly low.

From wider social media, I fear its going to be like 2015 and 2016 all over again, loads of people declaring that they would never vote Tory/Brexit but then secretly doing so. The choice is actually very limited unless you live in Scotland as if you voted remain the Tories and Labour are out of the question, whilst the Lib Dems are dead to many due to the events on 7 years ago.

At best another Tory default victory beckons.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: horlock07 on Wednesday, April 19, 2017, 14:39:19
Completely agree, think it's a horrible Americanism, but still thought it was interesting that she clearly doesn't back herself in the hardly charisma-laden company of Corbyn and Farron

Looks like ITV are going to empty chair her then as they seem to be planning a debate anyway. Not that it matters, she could roll up and say fuck you scum, to every question from the audience and the faithful would still vote them in. 


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Arriba on Wednesday, April 19, 2017, 15:00:04
Looks like ITV are going to empty chair her then as they seem to be planning a debate anyway. Not that it matters, she could roll up and say fuck you scum, to every question from the audience and the faithful would still vote them in. 

She's basically said that already. Lying through her teeth every time she speaks.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Pax Romana on Wednesday, April 19, 2017, 17:06:52
Looks like ITV are going to empty chair her then as they seem to be planning a debate anyway. Not that it matters, she could roll up and say fuck you scum, to every question from the audience and the faithful would still vote them in. 

The issue isn't the faithful tory voters, it's the labour voters who have lost all faith in the labour party and are going to vote tory because they can't see any remotely credible alternative.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Wobbly Bob on Wednesday, April 19, 2017, 17:21:48

Probably Labour, although the Greens will have the one of the best policies if they run with the 3 day weekend idea.
Will at least be able to sleep with a clear conscience for the next 5 years at least.

Would like to see current Socialist political thinking go down a more Libertarian path.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Ardiles on Wednesday, April 19, 2017, 17:47:42
I probably will not vote...for the reasons I've been banging on about on here since the 2010 election.  Under FPTP, my vote - and that of anyone else who does not support the leading candidate in a 'safe' seat - is worthless.

As I have said in other threads, however, the First Past the Post electoral system effectively disenfranchises me though.  We fall under the Aldershot constituency which has been solidly Tory since the War.  The incumbent is Gerald Howarth, a vile gay-hating, immigrant-bashing worm of a man who will almost certainly be re-elected.  My wife and I are both hoping he will come to the front door canvassing because we have a competition to see who can be the first to kick him squarely in the bollocks.

The only detail to have changed in the last 7 years is that Gerald Howarth is now 'Sir' Gerald Howarth and, without a doubt, even more smugly Tory than he was before.  His majority is so substantial that he probably won't bother canvassing/doorstepping anyone, but I cling to the remote hope that the above bollock-kicking might be possible this time around.  Hasn't happened yet.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: RedRag on Wednesday, April 19, 2017, 17:57:30
Your previous MP, Julian Critchley, though a Tory, was however a great backbencher and not afraid to speak truth to power in Thatcher's day


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Reg Smeeton on Wednesday, April 19, 2017, 18:00:13
I probably will not vote...for the reasons I've been banging on about on here since the 2010 election.  Under FPTP, my vote - and that of anyone else who does not support the leading candidate in a 'safe' seat - is worthless.

The only detail to have changed in the last 7 years is that Gerald Howarth is now 'Sir' Gerald Howarth and, without a doubt, even more smugly Tory than he was before.  His majority is so substantial that he probably won't bother canvassing/doorstepping anyone, but I cling to the remote hope that the above bollock-kicking might be possible this time around.  Hasn't happened yet.

However distasteful these people are, it is important to try and be civilised and avoid violence.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Samdy Gray on Wednesday, April 19, 2017, 18:06:31
I'm hoping that, given the result of the 2016 council elections in my ward where the Tories lost what they thought was a safe seat, we may see some more canvassing so that I can give them a hard time. If Buckland himself turns up, then even better.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Posh Red on Wednesday, April 19, 2017, 18:39:23
I probably will not vote...for the reasons I've been banging on about on here since the 2010 election.  Under FPTP, my vote - and that of anyone else who does not support the leading candidate in a 'safe' seat - is worthless.

The same for me, in my entire life I have not once been represented by someone I voted for.

In my opinion (which obviously counts for fuck all, see above) it makes a mockery of a so called democratic system.

I've never thought it right that a party can have a landslide victory when over 50% of the people that bothered to vote, voted for someone else.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Tails on Wednesday, April 19, 2017, 19:14:12
Im also in a Tory safe seat. Its been Tory for over 120 years and the current MP has held it for 30 years.. I will still vote though.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: The Grim Reaper on Wednesday, April 19, 2017, 19:17:20
Tory for me. Sorry but none of the other parties are capable of running a bath let alone the country.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: RedRag on Wednesday, April 19, 2017, 19:21:12
Im also in a Tory safe seat. Its been Tory for over 120 years and the current MP has held it for 30 years.. I will still vote though.
I'm with you and Posh

FPTP'ers (Cons and Labs) say they like strong government but why should a party with minority support in the country govern strongly and disregard, on every single issue, the combined majority who oppose most of its policies ?

PR can mean a bunch of t***s (voted for by a significant tranche of t***s) having a not so pleasant voice but is that not democracy?

I have always voted for the last 20 years but it is a soul destroying exercise (but then so is supporting STFC ;) )


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: herthab on Wednesday, April 19, 2017, 19:42:58
Tory for me. Sorry but none of the other parties are capable of running a bath let alone the country.

Tell me what the tories have done that show they're more capable?


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: The Saint on Wednesday, April 19, 2017, 20:41:57
Any of you twats that vote Tory deserve all that's coming to you, your kids and your grandchildren. Sadly you'll fuck it all up for the rest of us too.  :badmood:


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Christy on Wednesday, April 19, 2017, 21:48:25
I probably will not vote...for the reasons I've been banging on about on here since the 2010 election.  Under FPTP, my vote - and that of anyone else who does not support the leading candidate in a 'safe' seat - is worthless.

The only detail to have changed in the last 7 years is that Gerald Howarth is now 'Sir' Gerald Howarth and, without a doubt, even more smugly Tory than he was before.  His majority is so substantial that he probably won't bother canvassing/doorstepping anyone, but I cling to the remote hope that the above bollock-kicking might be possible this time around.  Hasn't happened yet.

Very good Ardiles, apart from the not voting part.  In the same spirit I'll share my previous thoughts on my old MP too, lovely, lovely bloke...maybe I was on the right lines, he was never going to hang around doing a job he didn't want.

Against my better nature, I have to disagree.  

Cameron in person is hugely likeable and massively charismatic, and is desperate to get out of the tiresome political arena and into light entertainment.  He's wasted as PM!  He sees himself as a cross between the re-invented Portillo and Ant or Dec, cracking jokes on a train towards the jungle on a Saturday TV teatime coming soon.    That way he stays one step ahead of that conceited blond clown, securing a place as the nation's sweetheart, and becoming either Brucie or Des Lynam, depending on Rupert's puppet plans for him.

Please help David find his vocation, follow his dreams and don't make him do all this again...after all, this is such an important election for his career prospects.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: chalkies_shorts on Wednesday, April 19, 2017, 22:01:33
Cameron is a total cunt who left behind a total fucking shambles ably helped by his mate Gideon.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: steveg on Wednesday, April 19, 2017, 22:10:45
Very good Ardiles, apart from the not voting part.  In the same spirit I'll share my previous thoughts on my old MP too, lovely, lovely bloke...maybe I was on the right lines, he was never going to hang around doing a job he didn't want.

[/quote

Sadly I've been around for 60 years and all those political junkies made me convulse regularly. Only person to change all that was Maggie?! She sorted those scumbag unions who were holding the country to ransom. Btw before you spout! All my life I have been a true grafter. Labour policies have never worked! Just spent money we don't have.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: chalkies_shorts on Wednesday, April 19, 2017, 22:17:40
Margaret Thatcher is the biggest cunt of the lot. Sorted out the unions. Yeah, well done Maggie. Let's get the secret service to infiltrate the miners then allow the police to crack a few skulls. Let's promise the earth to the nottingham miners and then fuck them over. Good old Maggie the saviour of the working class. Those pesky fucking unions that have stopped us sending kids up chimneys. What cunts. Then you've got the tank cunt McGregor saying only a few mines were to close. Cabinet papers released a couple of years ago show Scargill was right, the plan was to close them all. Maggie was a fucking g bitch and the conservatives should have been unelectable ever since


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: mystical_goat on Wednesday, April 19, 2017, 22:24:13
Labour policies have never worked! Just spent money we don't have.

Whereas the recent Tory 'austerity' plan (raising tax, slashing benefits, support for the mentally ill and disabled etc, whilst cutting inheritance tax, scrapping plans to raise business tax, failing to introducing tax avoidance measures or impinge the banking sector etc) has got the country even further into debt? Gideon has run up more debt that all previous chancellors combined I believe.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Batch on Wednesday, April 19, 2017, 22:28:18
any Tory austerity policy has presumably been totally fucked by Brexit anyway.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: chalkies_shorts on Wednesday, April 19, 2017, 22:33:02
Brexit is good. I still think something will happen that will prevent us from leaving.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Batch on Wednesday, April 19, 2017, 22:38:21
it's done and we'll agree not to get into a pro/con Brexit discussion or we'll all go round in circles again.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Peter Venkman on Thursday, April 20, 2017, 08:19:04
Fuck it, I am voting 4-4-2 I am fed up with 3 at the back.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: The Grim Reaper on Thursday, April 20, 2017, 12:55:37
Any of you twats that vote Tory deserve all that's coming to you, your kids and your grandchildren. Sadly you'll fuck it all up for the rest of us too.  :badmood:

This is the sort of comment I hear quite often from the 18-24 age group, who by and large couldn't be arsed to vote in last years referendum, the bitch about the outcome.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: RobertT on Thursday, April 20, 2017, 13:16:07
Don't think I'll bother given I'm in a Country run by a loon for the next few years anyway, seems whichever way I'd vote in the UK I'd get a similar result.  Have the parties simultaneously been run by such a bunch of no hopers before?


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: RobertT on Thursday, April 20, 2017, 14:25:45
I'm guessing the Lib Dems may go full reversal on Brexit as a policy, which may be interesting to see play out and challenge peoples views in some Conservative voting areas, however you can bet the SNP will walk Scotland again.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: ghanimah on Thursday, April 20, 2017, 15:04:35
Brexit is good. I still think something will happen that will prevent us from leaving.

We've invoked Article 50 so in all practical senses we're leaving, the question is how. If we want to 'remain' members we would have to rejoin under Article 49 and that will include joining the Euro and Schengen as all our opt-outs will disappear.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: skiptotheLouMacari on Thursday, April 20, 2017, 15:31:34
They're all a bunch a lying two faced cunts, in it for self gain.
Personally, i am fed up at austerity measures yet we continue to spend millions££££££ on foreign aid. Should we not be getting or own house in order before pumping millions into countries where, it only ends up in corrupt fuckers hands and not helping those that need it?
 


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Bewster on Thursday, April 20, 2017, 15:34:36
At one of the previous General Elections I read an article that basically said that if you anonymise manifestos and got people to vote for the policies they believed in then the Green Party would be the clear winners.

Unfortunately most people think that the Greens are a wasted vote and therefore chose another party, again indicating the flaws in our voting system already highlighted.

The Tories are wankers who look after their own
Labour are useless and fucked us over last time
The Lib Dems are pointless
UKIP are UKIP

Choices, choices  ;D. When is Kim Jong Un available ??


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: horlock07 on Thursday, April 20, 2017, 16:54:04
Margaret Thatcher is the biggest cunt of the lot to date.

I have amended it for you as its a crown that May is desperately after and on form to date has a bloody good job of delivering on.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: jayohaitchenn on Thursday, April 20, 2017, 16:56:38
They're all a bunch a lying two faced cunts, in it for self gain.
Personally, i am fed up at austerity measures yet we continue to spend millions££££££ on foreign aid. Should we not be getting or own house in order before pumping millions into countries where, it only ends up in corrupt fuckers hands and not helping those that need it?
 

FYI we spend 4 times more on the national debt interest payments than we do foreign aid.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: horlock07 on Thursday, April 20, 2017, 16:58:40
At one of the previous General Elections I read an article that basically said that if you anonymise manifestos and got people to vote for the policies they believed in then the Green Party would be the clear winners.


I am not going to go over it again as I have moaned about it in the past, but from personal experience the Greens are as despicable and full of self serving bullshit than any of the others, don't fall for the cuddly image they seem to get away with, their politicians are as prepared to fuck their constituents over as much as the next crooked wanker!


The Tories are wankers who look after their own
Labour are useless and fucked us over last time
The Lib Dems are pointless


Agreed although to be honest the LD's are mainly pointless as people think they are and thus don't vote for them?


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: jayohaitchenn on Thursday, April 20, 2017, 17:18:25
The Lib Dems had a sniff of power and sold their soul to the Torys. I doubt that will be forgotten for a very long time.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: horlock07 on Thursday, April 20, 2017, 17:34:04
The Lib Dems had a sniff of power and sold their soul to the Torys. I doubt that will be forgotten for a very long time.

Yet Labour had a sniff of power and turned into Diet Tory?


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Nemo on Thursday, April 20, 2017, 17:36:41
The Lib Dems had a sniff of power and sold their soul to the Torys. I doubt that will be forgotten for a very long time.

I get that coalitions aren't common in the Uk, but I see a lot of this and I'm really not sure it's fair. Can you really not see a difference in policy and approach between the coalition prior to 2015 and the conservative majority government since? It seems pretty clear to me that the Lib Dems manage to exert *some* influence. Yes, the majority of what happened was driven by the conservative agenda but then again they had five times the number of MPs so that we always going to happen. I agree it wasn't perfect (no government ever has been, it's just pick your poison really) and Clegg personally seemed to enjoy the pals act with Cameron far too much.

I'm never quite sure what people expected in 2010, a LibLab coalition where they propped up Brown? I can't see how that would have been fondly remembered either.  


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: pauld on Thursday, April 20, 2017, 17:37:13
Yet Labour had a sniff of power and turned into Diet Tory?
Think it was the other way round to be pedantic, but your point stands :)


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: horlock07 on Thursday, April 20, 2017, 17:41:45
Do I agree with them all, no but it is useful to see them all placed together whilst the conclusions regarding the reporting is hardly surprising ( LSE Research is here.... http:[email protected]/research/pdf/JeremyCorbyn/Cobyn-Report-FINAL.pdf ).

http://anotherangryvoice.blogspot.co.uk/2017/04/how-many-of-jeremy-corbyns-policies-do.html


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: horlock07 on Thursday, April 20, 2017, 17:42:42
Think it was the other way round to be pedantic, but your point stands :)

Possibly, although I still think that Mandy et al identified what would work (i.e. Tory lite) and positioned themselves accordingly.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: skiptotheLouMacari on Thursday, April 20, 2017, 17:46:51
FYI we spend 4 times more on the national debt interest payments than we do foreign aid.

And to think, if we used that money to assist with the debt reduction.
Every little helps!!


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: pauld on Thursday, April 20, 2017, 18:54:58
Possibly, although I still think that Mandy et al identified what would work (i.e. Tory lite) and positioned themselves accordingly.
Er, yeah, that was what I meant. I think I may have whooshed myself :)


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Posh Red on Thursday, April 20, 2017, 19:14:46
FYI we spend 4 times more on the national debt interest payments than we do foreign aid.

And to think, if we used that money to assist with the debt reduction.
Every little helps!!

Just imagine what we could do with £200bn


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: horlock07 on Friday, April 21, 2017, 08:57:32
Just imagine what we could do with £200bn

Nothing, remember Power would just pocket it all.  :hmmm:


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: 4D on Friday, April 21, 2017, 09:02:18
I hate politics and don't understand voters who have overly strong political beliefs. No party can be 100% perfect. Any canvassers who come to my house will all get the same response, whichever party they represent :)


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: horlock07 on Friday, April 21, 2017, 10:00:33
Jezza's is in Swindon this morning, hope all you Labour voters will be there to welcome and support him.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Posh Red on Friday, April 21, 2017, 10:09:02
Nothing, remember Power would just pocket it all.  :hmmm:

I actually meant the country rather than STFC, but you're still probably right :)


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Saxondale on Friday, April 21, 2017, 10:14:40
Did we do one of these at the 2015 election?  Would be quite interesting to see the difference.  Im sure the Kippers would have had a lot more supporters then.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Ardiles on Friday, April 21, 2017, 10:51:42
I would not be particularly surprised if UKIP folded all together within the next 12 months or so.  The party's primary objective was achieved last year; and the Tories have moved to the right during the last few years and now occupy much the same space on a lot of issues.  Add to that their tendency towards infighting, punching each other and to changing their leader every 5 mins...it's probably time to call it a day.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: pauld on Friday, April 21, 2017, 10:55:19
I would not be particularly surprised if UKIP folded all together within the next 12 months or so.  The party's primary objective was achieved last year; and the Tories have moved to the right during the last few years and now occupy much the same space on a lot of issues.  Add to that their tendency towards infighting, punching each other and to changing their leader every 5 mins...it's probably time to call it a day.
Plus Farage and their major backer Aaron Banks are setting up a new hard-right populist party, The Patriotic Alliance, backed by some of the same people that backed Trump in the US. Don't think UKIP will fold, just fade into irrelevance. But Farage/Banks' new project look like they could be a very nasty bunch indeed


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Power to people on Friday, April 21, 2017, 12:47:16
Jezza's is in Swindon this morning, hope all you Labour voters will be there to welcome and support him.

These things are usually filled with people they know support the leader, I saw the picture of him earlier and wondered who the people at the front were holding the vote labour placards, conveniently a very diverse bunch.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: ghanimah on Friday, April 21, 2017, 13:21:06
Plus Farage and their major backer Aaron Banks are setting up a new hard-right populist party, The Patriotic Alliance, backed by some of the same people that backed Trump in the US. Don't think UKIP will fold, just fade into irrelevance. But Farage/Banks' new project look like they could be a very nasty bunch indeed

The problem with UKIP is it started off with good intentions with many intelligent disillusioned people from other parties who from the outset wanted an alternative to the mainstream parties, only to have it hijacked by an alcoholic, cocaine snorting, womanising, thieving sociopath. As a result, yes I agree, UKIP will fade into obscurity.

Arron Banks is equally clueless as I discovered when I met him just before the referendum campaign about having an EU exit plan and organising a campaign on the back of that. The damning indictment of him is he - and Farage -couldn't even win the official leave designation against "vote leave" which was stuffed full of Tory boys who didn't want to leave and didn't even fulfill the Electoral Commission criteria.

Banks' only response to criticism that politics is not like running a business was dismissed with "I started my company with a desk and telephone, so I know more than you".


A bit like Trump really.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: horlock07 on Friday, April 21, 2017, 13:26:53
Plus Farage and their his major backer Aaron Banks are setting up a new hard-right populist party, The Patriotic Alliance, backed by some of the same people that backed Trump in the US. Don't think UKIP will fold, just fade into irrelevance. But Farage/Banks' new project look like they could be a very nasty bunch indeed

Just corrected it for you, Banks seems to have some manner of unrequited crush on Farage (similar to the one that Dacre has on May, I think it all harks back to nannys firm hand), its a glorious bromance.

Why does Farage need to stand, the BBC will give him a platform daily to witter on (plus QT every fortnight!) so why bother with hassle of having to roll up to parliament.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Simon Pieman on Friday, April 21, 2017, 13:31:55
I get that coalitions aren't common in the Uk, but I see a lot of this and I'm really not sure it's fair. Can you really not see a difference in policy and approach between the coalition prior to 2015 and the conservative majority government since? It seems pretty clear to me that the Lib Dems manage to exert *some* influence. Yes, the majority of what happened was driven by the conservative agenda but then again they had five times the number of MPs so that we always going to happen. I agree it wasn't perfect (no government ever has been, it's just pick your poison really) and Clegg personally seemed to enjoy the pals act with Cameron far too much.

I'm never quite sure what people expected in 2010, a LibLab coalition where they propped up Brown? I can't see how that would have been fondly remembered either. 

At the time I feel the same as jayo but with hindsight I agree with you completely. Gordon Brown was the reason that a negotiations to form a Labour/Lib Dem coalition never really got going.

I'll be voting Lib Dem which some will say is a wasted vote, but tactical voting is a political game (as is the whole of politics) which irks me somewhat.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: pauld on Friday, April 21, 2017, 13:37:35
The problem with UKIP is it started off with good intentions with many intelligent disillusioned people from other parties who from the outset wanted an alternative to the mainstream parties, only to have it hijacked by an alcoholic, cocaine snorting, womanising, thieving sociopath. As a result, yes I agree, UKIP will fade into obscurity.

Arron Banks is equally clueless as I discovered when I met him just before the referendum campaign about having an EU exit plan and organising a campaign on the back of that. The damning indictment of him is he - and Farage -couldn't even win the official leave designation against "vote leave" which was stuffed full of Tory boys who didn't want to leave and didn't even fulfill the Electoral Commission criteria.

Banks' only response to criticism that politics is not like running a business was dismissed with "I started my company with a desk and telephone, so I know more than you".


A bit like Trump really.
Oh, they're a lot like Trump, including the Breitbart clan (or should that be Klan) backing. That's what makes them frightening


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: horlock07 on Friday, April 21, 2017, 14:01:44
Oh, they're a lot like Trump, including the Breitbart clan (or should that be Klan) backing. That's what makes them frightening

Don't forget the entirely reputable Westmonster....


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Nemo on Friday, April 21, 2017, 17:00:26
At the time I feel the same as jayo but with hindsight I agree with you completely. Gordon Brown was the reason that a negotiations to form a Labour/Lib Dem coalition never really got going.

I'll be voting Lib Dem which some will say is a wasted vote, but tactical voting is a political game (as is the whole of politics) which irks me somewhat.

Oh at the time I agreed with Jayo completely as well! I think there was a certain public school smugness to the Cameron/Clegg axis that made it easier to hate when actually there were some fairly reasonable things going on behind the scenes.

Probably why the AV referendum went so badly, it basically became an opinion poll on Nick Clegg.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: ghanimah on Friday, April 21, 2017, 17:17:01


Probably why the AV referendum went so badly, it basically became an opinion poll on Nick Clegg.

Interestingly the people behind the No to AV referendum (including Matthew Elliott of Taxpayers' Alliance) were the same people behind the official Leave campaign, which included the same misuse of dodgy statistics.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-12564879

Not only that but much of that campaign was used instead to enrich their friends by defrauding the taxpayer.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: RedRag on Friday, April 21, 2017, 18:07:28
Why does Farage need to stand, the BBC will give him a platform daily to witter on (plus QT every fortnight!) so why bother with hassle of having to roll up to parliament.

Farage will be remaining a Euro MEP however

Although he has in the past argued that the EU is undemocratic and that the Euro Parliament is a powerless, rubber stamping institution, we must surely take him at his word when he says he believes he can be more effective as a Euro MEP than as an MP in the newly sovereign Westminster Parliament.

It would be scurillous to suggest that this has anything to do with the higher salary offered to MEPs as against MPs - even more valuable to a Brit since sterling's fall in the wake of the Brexit referendum result.

It would be more scurillous still to suggest that Farage is motivated by the superior pensions and benefits offered in retirement to MEPS as against MPs and not to fully support his views that the UK should just leave the 27 remaining States to fund it.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: hobodan on Saturday, April 22, 2017, 16:41:32
We need a tough bulldog to get us through Brexit negotiations. Conservative is the only option. suprised anyone would vote labour or lib dems in this environment.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Outletred on Saturday, April 22, 2017, 16:50:03
Conservative. No one else will implement Brexit or has strong enough leadership to run the country


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: The Saint on Saturday, April 22, 2017, 16:59:32
Conservative. No one else will implement Brexit or has strong enough leadership to run the country
The only positive of the relegation is that it pisses off people like you. Strong leadership? Are you fucking joking?


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: mystical_goat on Sunday, April 23, 2017, 17:29:26
If you want to vote tactically to keep the Tories out this spreadsheet is very useful

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/19_yf4RL133fBKscvSbID4eRKwztzY9KSI_2BMaI1bU8/htmlview?sle=true

I am all for Corbyn but may cast a Lib Dem vote based on my constituency.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: mystical_goat on Sunday, April 23, 2017, 20:51:33
Conservative. No one else will implement Brexit or has strong enough leadership to run the country

Theresa May's husband works as a senior executive in one of the world’s largest and most powerful financial institutions, a firm which controls $1.4 trillion in assets.

Its portfolio also includes $20 billion of shares in Amazon and Starbucks. Both, just a little ironically, were cited days ago by Theresa in her pledge to crack down on tax avoidance.

We are are all in this together.
They are all in this together.

If you think they give a flying fuck about leading anybody but themselves and their close friends into further advantage then you are severely misguided.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: hobodan on Monday, April 24, 2017, 00:03:04
Well you could argue that if she and her husband are that rich then she must be doing this for the love.

Personally I don't think there is any other option but to vote Tory in this election. People don't want Corbyn, and they don't want Lib Dems. We need a tough cookie for Brexit negotiations to give Verhofstad a kick in the nuts, Theresa is the only credible person to give us that


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: LucienSanchez on Monday, April 24, 2017, 01:31:42
We don't need a 'tough cookie' for Brexit negotiations... we need a team of skilled diplomats and negotiators, that even then won't help because the EU will quite rightly take a hard line to protect their interests. They don't care a jot for this shitty little island, and why should they?


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: herthab on Monday, April 24, 2017, 07:07:45
Well you could argue that if she and her husband are that rich then she must be doing this for the love.

Personally I don't think there is any other option but to vote Tory in this election. People don't want Corbyn, and they don't want Lib Dems. We need a tough cookie for Brexit negotiations to give Verhofstad a kick in the nuts, Theresa is the only credible person to give us that

So you think May, who has backtracked so many times I've lost count, is credible? Could you provide your rationale, as all I see is a two faced, lying, elitist cunt.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Nemo on Monday, April 24, 2017, 07:43:02
http://thetownend.com/index.php?topic=55759.0

Interesting to compare with our exit poll from last time. Looks like Green and UKIP voters have largely returned to their natural homes with the Conservatives/Labour. Labour actually outperforming last time % wise which suggests that the TEF might be a bit more Corbynite than your average voter - not sure anyone would be too surprised by that.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Hugh Kerrs on Monday, April 24, 2017, 14:14:22
what's UKIP for exactly? I thought Nigel said he'd disband the party if we had a referendum.  :hmmm:


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: ghanimah on Monday, April 24, 2017, 16:21:26
So you think May, who has backtracked so many times I've lost count, is credible? Could you provide your rationale, as all I see is a two faced, lying, elitist cunt.

All politicians are two faced, it's why we should have democracy. It allows us throw them out of power. We have to cause them pain of losing office to make them listen. Without that they will ignore us.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: The Saint on Monday, April 24, 2017, 19:06:01
It's so depressing to see so many gullible people who are football fans, from a town like Swindon, have been convinced by the mainstream media etc that Labour are some how unelectable, that  they have no choice but to vote Tory.

The stupidity of redneck hick trump voters in The US is one thing, but the fact that  is being replicated in Swindon/uk is enough to make an old man weep.  :doh:

Fucking dumb ass hobbits.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Hugh Kerrs on Monday, April 24, 2017, 19:27:30
It's so depressing to see so many gullible people who are football fans, from a town like Swindon, have been convinced by the mainstream media etc that Labour are some how unelectable, that  they have no choice but to vote Tory.

The stupidity of redneck hick trump voters in The US is one thing, but the fact that  is being replicated in Swindon/uk is enough to make an old man weep.  :doh:

Fucking dumb ass hobbits.

Top class political debate there saint. that'll really win em over


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: The Saint on Monday, April 24, 2017, 19:43:17
Top class political debate there saint. that'll really win em over

Yeah I'm sure my comments on here are gonna make all the difference to many a fuckwits political awakenings


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: ghanimah on Monday, April 24, 2017, 19:47:45
It's so depressing to see so many gullible people who are football fans, from a town like Swindon, have been convinced by the mainstream media etc that Labour are some how unelectable, that  they have no choice but to vote Tory.


Labour as a party is not fundamentally unelectable but with Corbyn Monoxide as leader it is. I don't think anyone is in any doubt about that.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: The Saint on Monday, April 24, 2017, 19:57:37
Labour as a party is not fundamentally unelectable but with Corbyn Monoxide as leader it is. I don't think anyone is in any doubt about that.

Apart from the hundreds of thousands who voted for him as leader you mean?

Keep being told what to think. Moron.

 


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: mystical_goat on Monday, April 24, 2017, 21:00:38
It's so depressing to see so many gullible people have been convinced by the mainstream media etc that Labour are some how unelectable, that  they have no choice but to vote Tory.


This is exactly correct. I am a huge fan of Corbyn, along with those in his constituency who have voted him in every time since 1983. I admire his hard work and dedication to the role, improving lives, his humility, honesty, principles, and most of all the desire to take a wrecking ball to the inheritance-based, tax-avoiding, public-shaming group of multi-million and billionaires we have ruling everything.

I was not a member of the Labour party until they made him stand for a second time in their leadership 'election'. Fuck that! It was £5 to join the first time I think, then I had to pay about £20 a few months later as they'd raised it to try and put people off.

The media bias and pressure against him is huge. Huge. For very clear reasons. The Guardian don't even do him many favours. I started to doubt JC then realised I was just being gradually bombarded and berated by tactical coverage of him, my faith and belief in his obviously steadfast principles being slowly worn down and worming irrational doubts into my subconscious. You need to try and look past all of that coverage, but it is very difficult with the frequency and tone.

Unfortunately I believe, not because of what the media are saying but, because so many seem affected by it, that he has a very small chance. I only hope that, again, this coverage of so many people supposedly doubting his leadership is a guise for weaning away support, in the same way I had started to think. And that people see through another media ploy and stick to their guns.

Anyone with the smallest amount of compassion for other humans, particularly in this country, along with a modicum of intelligence, can see that voting Tory is quite insane unless you are one of their close friends/business associates. Their timing is great as the police forces investigating the expenses misallocation of the 2015 general election will find them guilty after this one is over, and it will have significantly less impact.

I now wonder if that spreadsheet of 'how to keep to tories out' is also a ploy to turn voters from Labour to Lib Dem, which will effectively empower the blues I believe.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: ghanimah on Monday, April 24, 2017, 21:30:58
Apart from the hundreds of thousands who voted for him as leader you mean?

Keep being told what to think. Moron.

 

Well I guess we'll see in June.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Berniman on Tuesday, April 25, 2017, 09:33:07
It does make me chuckle how as soon as you start talking about Politics on here it turns into thisis..



Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: joteddyred on Tuesday, April 25, 2017, 09:44:22
It does make me chuckle how as soon as you start talking about Politics on here it turns into thisis..



Indeed, which is why I've stayed off this thread.

I don't understand the need for personal insults and name calling when people have a different political opinion to your own.  Some of the comments are nothing but insulting.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Tails on Tuesday, April 25, 2017, 10:01:45
Indeed, which is why I've stayed off this thread.

I don't understand the need for personal insults and name calling when people have a different political opinion to your own.  Some of the comments are nothing but insulting.

Good job staying off the thread!


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: horlock07 on Tuesday, April 25, 2017, 10:48:47
Apart from the hundreds of thousands who voted for him as leader you mean?

Keep being told what to think. Moron.

 

I will say it again, roughly 500,000 which if they all vote for him in the GE is about a third of what the Greens got last time and much lower than UKIP got.

Party membership/core voter support means absolutely fuck all if the floating voter won't vote for you in numbers, Labour experienced that with Miliband (E) and have not learnt the lesson with Corbyn and will continue to fail to do so until they realise its not student politics or that as portrayed in the Life of Brian.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: joteddyred on Tuesday, April 25, 2017, 10:55:01
Good job staying off the thread!

 :).  I mean I've meant no reference to which way I'll be voting and my views on the various parties.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: RedRag on Tuesday, April 25, 2017, 11:36:48
Indeed, which is why I've stayed off this thread.

I don't understand the need for personal insults and name calling when people have a different political opinion to your own.  Some of the comments are nothing but insulting.
I quite agree.

A forthright competition between ideas is fair enough but play the ball (idea) not the man ("person";))

I would say the likes of Power and PDC or even Cheese can be more divisive than mere Politics though...


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: jayohaitchenn on Tuesday, April 25, 2017, 11:46:12
I will say it again, roughly 500,000 which if they all vote for him in the GE is about a third of what the Greens got last time and much lower than UKIP got.

Party membership/core voter support means absolutely fuck all if the floating voter won't vote for you in numbers, Labour experienced that with Miliband (E) and have not learnt the lesson with Corbyn and will continue to fail to do so until they realise its not student politics or that as portrayed in the Life of Brian.

It could take far less than that:

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/how-just-639-people-could-10288346


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: bamboonoshoe on Tuesday, April 25, 2017, 12:57:25
In my constituency which was mainly Labour but dabbles with Tories every now and again. It's currently Tory but it's very much an exciting constituency for the neutral as it can easily swing back. Of 45,600 (65%) that turned out last time;

20k voted Tory
16k voted Labour
7.2k voted UK...them
1.3 voted Lib Dem
1.1 voted Greens

Tory gained 5.4%
Labour lost 2.7%
UKIP gained 13.9%
Lib Dem lost 11.5%
Green gained 2.4%

In this constituency I guess many will return back to their old party of choice, with UKIPs decline. Here they aren't all Tories, many were Labour and will probably take around 3k off UKIP. I see the Tories stabilising on their current position with a minor rise. Labour will gain here and if they campaign in the right way they could swing maybe 500 Tory/float voters. which would mean they would only need 500 more votes to edge the Tories. However the Tories will probably gain 1k off UKIP. Lib Dems will gain slightly as some trust is coming back. I think they'll get around 500-700 of the UKIP votes maybe making the 2k mark. Greens again are slow burners (the irony) here but I think they will also gain again and it'll be similar to Lib Dem with 500+, taking them to 1.5k. My projection for UKIP is they'll lose around 5k seats.

So my indicator is something like this.  The Tory/Labour battle will be back to usual and it'll be a close call while the other 3 main party will be squeezed together. What interests me is if you set up as an Inde and gave the right voice you could do quite well in a constituency. you may never win, but you'd have a good time watching the big two scratch for votes and sweat on the results. An Inde (as shown by UKIP, albeit with a lot of cash thrown at it) can easily attain 3rd place here.

My projection for June 8th 2017 is;

Con 20.4k
Lab 20k
UKIP 2.1k
Lib D. 2k
Green 1.4


You may think this is all a bit pointless, but it gives an indicator to how important it is for people to go out and vote. Especially in constituencies that have changeable control and seemingly many floating voters. Only 2000 voters changing their mind at the Ballot box or being convinced by a little extra campaigning can change an outcome. A 5% swing here is massive in terms of gaining power. Can Labour do it here? I'm not certain but if they target the working demographic here and use the campaign policies that Corbyn is then there is no reason why it shouldn't be a very close call. I also feel this Nationally too. It won't be a walk in the park for the Tories and if they don't bother to campaign well in marginal seats then it could well be a hung parliament.




Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Panda Paws on Tuesday, April 25, 2017, 13:01:48
Apart from the hundreds of thousands who voted for him as leader you mean?

Keep being told what to think. Moron.


This is what I don't get. Why is someone a moron for disagreeing with you? For having a differing opinion?

Why is everyone who voted Leave branded thick, rascist etc? Why is every Tory voter insulted? That's not the way the Left improve their chances of winning anything. Engage people, understand why millions of people are voting the way they vote. Understand why normal, everyday people feel let down by any one of the particular parties.

Debate and discuss and if you disagree, fine. That doesn't make them less important than you, or their vote worth less, or their opinion worth less. Extreme views of any kind tend to be damaging, but there is no right or wrong when voting, despite the bollocks a small minority like to shout about.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Chubbs on Tuesday, April 25, 2017, 13:07:53
coming from a total political novice, why the massive split of opinion on Corbyn?


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: chalkies_shorts on Tuesday, April 25, 2017, 13:18:05
This is what I don't get. Why is someone a moron for disagreeing with you? For having a differing opinion?

Why is everyone who voted Leave branded thick, rascist etc? Why is every Tory voter insulted? That's not the way the Left improve their chances of winning anything. Engage people, understand why millions of people are voting the way they vote. Understand why normal, everyday people feel let down by any one of the particular parties.

Debate and discuss and if you disagree, fine. That doesn't make them less important than you, or their vote worth less, or their opinion worth less. Extreme views of any kind tend to be damaging, but there is no right or wrong when voting, despite the bollocks a small minority like to shout about.
Spot on. Win the argument. Shouting down people doesn't really work. Let people speak and win by words. Its interesting the most intolerant people I come across appear to vote for the supposedly  more tolerant things.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: bamboonoshoe on Tuesday, April 25, 2017, 13:22:16
coming from a total political novice, why the massive split of opinion on Corbyn?

I think the anti Corbyn stems from the in party shenanigans that didn't want him there. This has been driven by the media and thus many will take what ITV, BBC, Sky say as gospel truth...

imho, Corbyn seems like a great man with great ideas. Maybe he is a bit different and some are quite scared of that. Some feel he is more of a protester than a leader. Many people don't like change, however recent events (EU Ref.) would say differently so maybe Corbyn does have a chance. A chance at least to squeeze the Tories nuts and strengthen their own position.

I find it very strange though that so many can be split on Corbyn for being "too nice" "not a proper politician" or "he's too different" when so many people seemingly really liked Farage. 2.4m of them seemed to like what he said and yet everytime I saw his chortling smug face and a pint of beer (because, you know....he's a man of the people) all I wanted to say was shut up you horrible man!

As you can tell i'm not a fan of Mr.F

This is why I find it baffling that apparently many don't like Corbyn. I think though there are many that will agree with his policies, if they bother to read them. He's also doing what most of the parties didn't have last time out and that is he actually has some policies.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Arriba on Tuesday, April 25, 2017, 13:29:40
As a trade union member i had a vote on the labour leadership.
I voted Corbyn because if you look beyond the vile vendetta against him he is a thoroughly nice chap with ideas that would be better for the nation and world if we embraced it.

I will never understand how anyone could vote Tory but they do. I agree that educating people is more productive than abusing them. In some cases that is like flogging a dead horse though.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: pauld on Tuesday, April 25, 2017, 13:56:54
In this constituency I guess many will return back to their old party of choice, with UKIPs decline. Here they aren't all Tories, many were Labour and will probably take around 3k off UKIP.
Many of those ex-Labour Kippers won't go back to Labour, at least not at this election which is being pitched as a Brexit election. They'll either vote Tory as a pro-Brexit vote or just not vote. This is why this election is so worrying for Labour (and one of the reasons why May called it), they risk being wiped out in their heartlands by former core Labour voters who voted Leave and won't vote Labour if they see the party as being likely to backslide on that. Which is why Corbyn ordered his MPs to support the Article 50 vote, to the fury of many of them and the metropolitan liberals (small l).


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Chubbs on Tuesday, April 25, 2017, 13:57:45
Thanks bamboo and arriba. I really am trying to take a vested interest in politics now, as my wife said, if not for your own future, think about the boy's futures, and she's right if i want the best for my boys i can't carry on sitting back and start doing my bit.

Another novice question. Why does Corbyn's own party have a vendetta against him? I recall at the last election they were trying to oust him but i didn't really read into it.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Berniman on Tuesday, April 25, 2017, 14:06:09
I voted Tory last time around because there was no valid opposition, not one that I could see running the country anyway.  I am undecided this time at the moment, though am still in the Tory camp at the moment, I am not as far in that camp than I was at the last election.

Corbyn is a better option than Milliband IMO, but still not somebody that I can see running the country.  I am open to being convinced though, as I really would prefer to vote Labour.

Thoroughly nice chap sums it up for me, I don't want a thoroughly nice chap taking us out of Europe and taking us forward.  I want a strong leader with new ideas and a clear vision.  I fear that Corbyn is not that, but I also see that neither is May.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Tails on Tuesday, April 25, 2017, 14:12:09
As a trade union member i had a vote on the labour leadership.
I voted Corbyn because if you look beyond the vile vendetta against him he is a thoroughly nice chap with ideas that would be better for the nation and world if we embraced it.

I will never understand how anyone could vote Tory but they do. I agree that educating people is more productive than abusing them. In some cases that is like flogging a dead horse though.

100% this.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Simon Pieman on Tuesday, April 25, 2017, 14:12:13


Another novice question. Why does Corbyn's own party have a vendetta against him? I recall at the last election they were trying to oust him but i didn't really read into it.

Stems from the change in the party to new Labour under Blair and then Brown. Simply put, a lot of the MPs aren't aligned to his political views


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: hobodan on Tuesday, April 25, 2017, 14:51:52
Is it just me or are the modern day liberals the most Intolerant people 😂. What happened to debate and free speech? Shutting a persons opinion down and being abusive because of your hurt feelings isn't democratic.  Who'd have thought we'd have fascists masquerading as 'liberals'.....


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: bamboonoshoe on Tuesday, April 25, 2017, 14:55:37
I voted Tory last time around because there was no valid opposition, not one that I could see running the country anyway.  I am undecided this time at the moment, though am still in the Tory camp at the moment, I am not as far in that camp than I was at the last election.

Corbyn is a better option than Milliband IMO, but still not somebody that I can see running the country.  I am open to being convinced though, as I really would prefer to vote Labour.

Thoroughly nice chap sums it up for me, I don't want a thoroughly nice chap taking us out of Europe and taking us forward.  I want a strong leader with new ideas and a clear vision.  I fear that Corbyn is not that, but I also see that neither is May.

I can see your points totally. I had always been a Lib Dem voter, chiefly because I was brought up on core Liberal values and very much have them today. Fairness for all, kindness to humanity, etc. Doesn't exempt me from being a total idiot at times though yet that comes out of frustration of others, however I am learning that not everyone thinks or agrees with me. It's certainly a time honoured thing and a valuable lesson at that. Any way, last time out I voted Green, which in my constituency some would say was wasted/non influential/non tactical, but you have to vote for the policies you believe in I guess and if you don't then you're not really basing upon anything other than a personality. Anyway, enough about me...

What kind of things would convince you to vote Labour? Putting the person aside, Corbyn. The policies he has put forward do work for the working demographic whilst still maintaining some core Liberal values towards immigration (that's another story because it really is the biggest media stirred myth going, especially here. check out the UNHCR website for the data, its astonishingly low in terms of numbers and the cost to the UK taxpayers is something silly like 2p per person per year. When someone chucks their 5p change from a coffee on the floor, I remind them that they can't moan about immigration as that 5p would cover their cost twice over. As I said that's another story). The policy promises are encouraging and I've yet to see anyone else come out with anything near that. Delivering on it is always the Tory counter argument but every party is guilty of this. You have to have a set of policies to get people interested otherwise no one would campaign and then none of us would really vote, except the stoic Tory and Labour voters.

Your point on recognising both May and Corbyn as "not the people to lead us out of the EU, are very valid indeed but maybe instead of looking at the individual (I know we need a leader to look at and be proud of etc.) maybe look at the actual party and ask yourself "Which of these parties do I think can lead the nation through a Brexit negotiation?" It's tough, we have to put all the personalities aside and chiefly look at the parties. Only you can truly decide which party that is but also looking beyond, you have to look at who will maintain and help us grow again as a nation in our juvenile independence after the route and agreements of Brexit are more clear and we have a better idea of where the nation will end up. For me personally, Corbyn offers a warming hand to the rest of the EU and a charm offensive could well be what is needed. It's going to be a sensitive exit and there is absolutely no point in trying to play hard ball when we are the ones that have decided to leave. This I fear is what May is missing the point on. She's trying to take the position of this negotiation as the lead role. No one has any respect for her in the EU because at the end of the day, the UK has acted like a spoilt child that wants to "go home from the proverbial theme park" and still eat 12 bags of Candyfloss and then complain about it. I'm not against leaving but if you're going to request to leave, you can't expect to be given all the same agreements and pick and choose what you keep and so on.

I know I've rambled on, I always do....but I'd say Berni, take a look at the policies being offered by ALL the parties. Look at how they may enhance your own life and then take a wider look at how the country would fair if that party were in control of Brexit. If there are too many crossovers then I would say discard because for most voters clarity is the key component and parties should look at this as the best way to obtain a vote from the electorate.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: bamboonoshoe on Tuesday, April 25, 2017, 14:58:40
Is it just me or are the modern day liberals the most Intolerant people 😂. What happened to debate and free speech? Shutting a persons opinion down and being abusive because of your hurt feelings isn't democratic.  Who'd have thought we'd have fascists masquerading as 'liberals'.....

I'm mainly a Liberalist and I certainly don't share the values of a recent poster. They may just be a WUM in which case they can freely WUM off to another place. However I don't think the person in question was a true Liberal. Possibly Labour, definitely anti-Tory. I would also say they are more akin to an anarchist than a fascist but I totally understand why you are annoyed and the persons comments.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: ghanimah on Tuesday, April 25, 2017, 15:02:29
I think the anti Corbyn stems from the in party shenanigans that didn't want him there. This has been driven by the media and thus many will take what ITV, BBC, Sky say as gospel truth...

imho, Corbyn seems like a great man with great ideas. Maybe he is a bit different and some are quite scared of that. Some feel he is more of a protester than a leader. Many people don't like change, however recent events (EU Ref.) would say differently so maybe Corbyn does have a chance. A chance at least to squeeze the Tories nuts and strengthen their own position.

I find it very strange though that so many can be split on Corbyn for being "too nice" "not a proper politician" or "he's too different" when so many people seemingly really liked Farage. 2.4m of them seemed to like what he said and yet everytime I saw his chortling smug face and a pint of beer (because, you know....he's a man of the people) all I wanted to say was shut up you horrible man!

As you can tell i'm not a fan of Mr.F

This is why I find it baffling that apparently many don't like Corbyn. I think though there are many that will agree with his policies, if they bother to read them. He's also doing what most of the parties didn't have last time out and that is he actually has some policies.

We don't need to read newspapers to know Corbyn is toxic. Just following his interviews where he is extremely irritable, PMQs and incoherent statements tells us all we need to know that he is incompetent, unfit for high office and completely inconsistent among so many other things.

On a personal note I find it an insult that Labour PPCs' will now be knocking on doors asking the electorate to vote for a party with a leader that the Parliamentary Labour party don't agree with; who have tried relentlessly to oust him resulting in numerous cabinet resignations.

Corbyn himself admitted he didn't want the leadership, the Parliamentary Labour party don't want him as leader so why the hell should the rest of the country?


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: chalkies_shorts on Tuesday, April 25, 2017, 15:07:59
Many of those ex-Labour Kippers won't go back to Labour, at least not at this election which is being pitched as a Brexit election. They'll either vote Tory as a pro-Brexit vote or just not vote. This is why this election is so worrying for Labour (and one of the reasons why May called it), they risk being wiped out in their heartlands by former core Labour voters who voted Leave and won't vote Labour if they see the party as being likely to backslide on that. Which is why Corbyn ordered his MPs to support the Article 50 vote, to the fury of many of them and the metropolitan liberals (small l).
That probably sums me up quite well. Let's get brexit done and dusted and then I'll see how the land lies politically. The danger for me is someone trying to negotiate a soft brexit or even worse an effectively non brexit. Its ukip for me again. Keep the pressure on.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: bamboonoshoe on Tuesday, April 25, 2017, 15:37:13
Many of those ex-Labour Kippers won't go back to Labour, at least not at this election which is being pitched as a Brexit election. They'll either vote Tory as a pro-Brexit vote or just not vote. This is why this election is so worrying for Labour (and one of the reasons why May called it), they risk being wiped out in their heartlands by former core Labour voters who voted Leave and won't vote Labour if they see the party as being likely to backslide on that. Which is why Corbyn ordered his MPs to support the Article 50 vote, to the fury of many of them and the metropolitan liberals (small l).

I'm not so sure paul. The EU vote was so close (when we talk about the differential of swing needed for it to go the other way and the fact only 1/3 of the nation actually voted Remain. That's for another day though) and that stemmed cross party so in politics it was a divide across divides. We all know at the time many friendships or working relationships would've been tested with people who usually vote for the same parties, same values etc. That is still a little raw but we all (like it or not) must work together and get the country through Brexit, not necessarily too rushed either but through it the "right way".

I think what many are confusing UKIP voters with is Tory defectors. Yes many Tories politicians/candidates jumped from Conservative to UKIP but many voters did stick with Tory. It was Labour and Lib Dem who lost many to UKIP. Looking at figures it was those two who lost the most. UKIP were up but always would be with a growing popularity (at that moment) it's just they surpassed because no one liked Milliband (Lab) and Lib Dem had aggressed their faithful by going back on tuition fees and the selling of Cleggs soul to Cameron. It was a shame as they did actually delay many Tory policies so they did do some good. However they became the media scapegoat while Cameron played the role of Walter Mity...

Figures at 2015 were very interesting compared from 2010 and it shows the Conservative didn't make massive gains. They were as follows;

UKIP +9.5%
SNP +3.1 %
Grn +2.8%
Lab +1.5%
Con +0.8%
LibD -15.2%

If we discard UKIP, SNP, and Green we can clearly see that both Labour and Conservative didn't make massive gains overall. The underpinning difference was Lib Dems shocking -15.2% decline. Now we know a lot went to UKIP and some to Greens. I don't know many true Lib Dems that would ever vote Conservative it just goes against the values imo. Some would for sure but then they must never have been a true Liberal. I can see why they would vote UKIP though (I certainly wouldn') but that goes down the route of Liberal independence so there is strangely some kind of sadist link between UKIP (early ideas) and Liberal ideas. Maybe the more older Liberals could explain this better than myself?!

My point is, Conservative didn't make massive gains from 2010 in the 2015 election, voters mainly just shifted from the smaller parties to UKIP. This is why this time round it'll be tighter, based upon people not having been able to vote in Theresa May and that UKIP will have less share this time. If anyone truly gains it'll strangely be the Lib Dems.

I think people are foolish if they think Labour would backslide on the notion of Brexit. Article 50 has been triggered there is no way back on that and all Parties know this. Every single person who voted Leave or Remain should also be aware of this. No real way back  on that idea i'm certain. We've made our bed so to speak and now we must sleep in it, whilst bake our own cakes if we so wish to eat them. People will return back to Labour, Con, Lib Dem etc. and for that reason is why I think we'll be looking at a hung parliament.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: horlock07 on Tuesday, April 25, 2017, 16:09:10
I'm not so sure paul. The EU vote was so close (when we talk about the differential of swing needed for it to go the other way and the fact only 1/3 of the nation actually voted Remain. That's for another day though) and that stemmed cross party so in politics it was a divide across divides. We all know at the time many friendships or working relationships would've been tested with people who usually vote for the same parties, same values etc. That is still a little raw but we all (like it or not) must work together and get the country through Brexit, not necessarily too rushed either but through it the "right way".

I think what many are confusing UKIP voters with is Tory defectors. Yes many Tories politicians/candidates jumped from Conservative to UKIP but many voters did stick with Tory. It was Labour and Lib Dem who lost many to UKIP. Looking at figures it was those two who lost the most. UKIP were up but always would be with a growing popularity (at that moment) it's just they surpassed because no one liked Milliband (Lab) and Lib Dem had aggressed their faithful by going back on tuition fees and the selling of Cleggs soul to Cameron. It was a shame as they did actually delay many Tory policies so they did do some good. However they became the media scapegoat while Cameron played the role of Walter Mity...

Figures at 2015 were very interesting compared from 2010 and it shows the Conservative didn't make massive gains. They were as follows;

UKIP +9.5%
SNP +3.1 %
Grn +2.8%
Lab +1.5%
Con +0.8%
LibD -15.2%

If we discard UKIP, SNP, and Green we can clearly see that both Labour and Conservative didn't make massive gains overall. The underpinning difference was Lib Dems shocking -15.2% decline. Now we know a lot went to UKIP and some to Greens. I don't know many true Lib Dems that would ever vote Conservative it just goes against the values imo. Some would for sure but then they must never have been a true Liberal. I can see why they would vote UKIP though (I certainly wouldn') but that goes down the route of Liberal independence so there is strangely some kind of sadist link between UKIP (early ideas) and Liberal ideas. Maybe the more older Liberals could explain this better than myself?!

My point is, Conservative didn't make massive gains from 2010 in the 2015 election, voters mainly just shifted from the smaller parties to UKIP. This is why this time round it'll be tighter, based upon people not having been able to vote in Theresa May and that UKIP will have less share this time. If anyone truly gains it'll strangely be the Lib Dems.

I think people are foolish if they think Labour would backslide on the notion of Brexit. Article 50 has been triggered there is no way back on that and all Parties know this. Every single person who voted Leave or Remain should also be aware of this. No real way back  on that idea i'm certain. We've made our bed so to speak and now we must sleep in it, whilst bake our own cakes if we so wish to eat them. People will return back to Labour, Con, Lib Dem etc. and for that reason is why I think we'll be looking at a hung parliament.

+1 on most of that.

However I am at a loss where this idea seems to be circulating that Labour will do anything bar support Brexit, leaving the EU entirely follows Corbyn's longstanding policy position and whilst he witters on when it suits him that policy decisions etc are made at conference on many issues they tend to just reflect his personal position.

I thought he would be breath of fresh air when elected, but in the first few months he made various policy speeches which were lapped up by the faithful and then quietly contradicted and forgotten by 'spokesmen', meaning that he made the big news and never had to deliver the true position, made me suspect he is little better than any other politician at playing to the crowd for his own advancement and objectives  - sadly.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Nemo on Tuesday, April 25, 2017, 16:15:07
In fairness Keir Starmer (Shadow Brexit) set out Labour's Brexit position pretty thoroughly today which is basically soft out:

- No second referendum
- Guarantee right to remain for EU nationals on day one, seek to get UK nationals in EU guaranteed in return asap
- Devolve powers returned to the UK to regional assemblies
- Retain EU working rights legislation
- Seek (not at any cost) membership of the EEA
- Parliament vote on final deal


So softer than Tories but still out. That's the good thing about elections, they mean the parties have to be relatively clear about what their positions are. Doesn't stop them ignoring that entirely once they win though...


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: RedRag on Tuesday, April 25, 2017, 16:39:02
That probably sums me up quite well. Let's get brexit done and dusted and then I'll see how the land lies politically. The danger for me is someone trying to negotiate a soft brexit or even worse an effectively non brexit. Its ukip for me again. Keep the pressure on.
I completely disagree and will personally therefore be voting Lib Dem.  I equally respect your call, CS.

Lib Dems and UKIP are the only two parties who are, broadly, united over the EU question.

It is far from being the only question but the next Parliament will surely be defined by the Brexit negotiated.  Its economic consequences (whichever version you prefer) will affect the NHS, Education, Social Care, Tax and so on as much as any left/right political postures.

Some even suggest that May wants a bigger majority to dilute the Tory Euro-sceptics and thereby enable her to negotiate a softer Brexit.  She has as PM been a massive flip:flopper, so who really knows.

I cannot "agree with Nick" about a possibly close election.  The results as usual will depend on the outcome of the marginals rather than percentage vote shares where the Tories will be highly professional, resourced and focussed.

If only bloody STFC had been similarly focussed on their 6 pointers!


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: bamboonoshoe on Tuesday, April 25, 2017, 16:40:06
+1 on most of that.

However I am at a loss where this idea seems to be circulating that Labour will do anything bar support Brexit, leaving the EU entirely follows Corbyn's longstanding policy position and whilst he witters on when it suits him that policy decisions etc are made at conference on many issues they tend to just reflect his personal position.

I thought he would be breath of fresh air when elected, but in the first few months he made various policy speeches which were lapped up by the faithful and then quietly contradicted and forgotten by 'spokesmen', meaning that he made the big news and never had to deliver the true position, made me suspect he is little better than any other politician at playing to the crowd for his own advancement and objectives  - sadly.

Oh no absolutely, I thought that's what I was alluding to? I think Labour know that Brexit means Brexit and they would handle it accordingly so. As would or should any other party too.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Reg Smeeton on Tuesday, April 25, 2017, 16:49:12
I'm mainly a Liberalist and I certainly don't share the values of a recent poster. They may just be a WUM in which case they can freely WUM off to another place. However I don't think the person in question was a true Liberal. Possibly Labour, definitely anti-Tory. I would also say they are more akin to an anarchist than a fascist but I totally understand why you are annoyed and the persons comments.

Liberals, as opposed to LibDems, can come in all shapes and sizes.  However the essential dichotomy is between social liberals and economic liberals.  Social liberals believing many behaviours are acceptable. Economic liberals believe the free market can sort out everything. You get some social liberals who are economic liberals like a Cameron and Osborne, and economic liberals who are socially illiberal like a May, and the alt-right mob who've taken over the White House.

Socialists should recognise that there is no such thing as a free market, and that as a consequence there has to be some loss of liberal values to maintain a cohesive society.... you can argue about degree.

Ha-Joon Chang's book 23 things they didn't tell you about capitalism is a good read.  Makes a change to have a Chang not talking bullshit. Quite easy reading the sort of thing Chubbs might consider, to get some idea about his kids' future


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: RobertT on Tuesday, April 25, 2017, 16:49:30
I don't understand why Labour don't just come out and go full anti-EU.  They only really supported it because of the labour laws introduced, but they can easily make a statement that they will maintain those and continue on the same path the EU has gone.  Outside of that, they could easily push an agenda to the left that involves not being in the EU.  For example, they could push for a reduction in VAT, or to remove it from Utilities as they would clearly like to align to a progressive taxation policy.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: chalkies_shorts on Tuesday, April 25, 2017, 16:59:41
I don't understand why Labour don't just come out and go full anti-EU. 
That was their original position


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Reg Smeeton on Tuesday, April 25, 2017, 17:07:50
I don't understand why Labour don't just come out and go full anti-EU.  They only really supported it because of the labour laws introduced, but they can easily make a statement that they will maintain those and continue on the same path the EU has gone.  Outside of that, they could easily push an agenda to the left that involves not being in the EU.  For example, they could push for a reduction in VAT, or to remove it from Utilities as they would clearly like to align to a progressive taxation policy.

This is the sort of difficult shit I wrestled with this time last year. There really isn't an easy solution... on the one hand EU, an undemocratic, banker's construct that is screwing over the likes of the Greeks..and looking to do deals with the US that will break up the NHS.

On the other, there is the Social Chapter which involves workers rights which has an internationalist flavour much loved of socialists. Many of these rights are being gradually eroded though within the EU anyway, and you can be sure that the Tories will be looking to bin off what's left.

As soon as Corbyn allowed himself to be compromised by half hearted remain he was fucked.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Sir Cliff Pipehard on Tuesday, April 25, 2017, 17:16:33
I don't understand why Labour don't just come out and go full anti-EU.  They only really supported it because of the labour laws introduced, but they can easily make a statement that they will maintain those and continue on the same path the EU has gone.  Outside of that, they could easily push an agenda to the left that involves not being in the EU.  For example, they could push for a reduction in VAT, or to remove it from Utilities as they would clearly like to align to a progressive taxation policy.



Totally agree
I've been saying this for a while.
I'm a Corbyn Labour supporter and voted to leave the EU and I know a lot of others like me.
Unfortunately the whole focus of Brexit has been on Farage's  mob and immigration.
I think Labour have lost a lot of their traditional support over this issue.
It worries me that this election will become all about Brexit,meanwhile the NHS goes down the pan,the housing crisis gets worse,more food banks,more homelessness etc 


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: ghanimah on Tuesday, April 25, 2017, 17:25:07
I don't understand why Labour don't just come out and go full anti-EU.  They only really supported it because of the labour laws introduced, but they can easily make a statement that they will maintain those and continue on the same path the EU has gone.  Outside of that, they could easily push an agenda to the left that involves not being in the EU.  For example, they could push for a reduction in VAT, or to remove it from Utilities as they would clearly like to align to a progressive taxation policy.

Yes, Labour has always traditionally rejected the concept of the EEC/EU. They only did a u-turn in 1988 when Delors' told them that being in the EU could reverse Thatcherisim. After then the party was taken over by establishment figures like Blair who liked the EU because it enabled him to waltz about on the international stage without accountability.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: bamboonoshoe on Tuesday, April 25, 2017, 17:47:14
Liberals, as opposed to LibDems, can come in all shapes and sizes.  However the essential dichotomy is between social liberals and economic liberals.  Social liberals believing many behaviours are acceptable. Economic liberals believe the free market can sort out everything. You get some social liberals who are economic liberals like a Cameron and Osborne, and economic liberals who are socially illiberal like a May, and the alt-right mob who've taken over the White House.

Socialists should recognise that there is no such thing as a free market, and that as a consequence there has to be some loss of liberal values to maintain a cohesive society.... you can argue about degree.

Ha-Joon Chang's book 23 things they didn't tell you about capitalism is a good read.  Makes a change to have a Chang not talking bullshit. Quite easy reading the sort of thing Chubbs might consider, to get some idea about his kids' future

Excellent Reg, I'm usually found reading excerpts of Oedipus, Keats, and suchlike. I'll take a look at the Ha-Joon Chang. I may put it on my holiday reading list along with my long term favourite, Collapse by Jared Diamond (I think you'd enjoy that), A Walk in the Woods by Bill Bryson and either something by Iain Banks (Wasp Factory/The Crow Road) or Terry Pratchett's Discworld. You know, just to lighten the load. I can't read Nietzsche for 2weeks solid  :D :D


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: mystical_goat on Tuesday, April 25, 2017, 17:57:09
Any evidence for these opinions?

We don't need to read newspapers to know Corbyn is toxic.
Just following his interviews where he is extremely irritable,
PMQs
incoherent statements
he is incompetent
unfit for high office
completely inconsistent among so many other things.
Corbyn himself admitted he didn't want the leadership

Irritable, really!? Doubt you could find a more calm, rational MP. When I've seen journalists repeatedly feed him leading questions and try to back him into a corner or make him say explicit/inflammatory statements, he's responded as previously described. I watched this the other day and whilst Marr isn't Paxman, he tries to back him into a silly corner on a few occasions, all calmly rebutted with rational points which answer the issues. I did like Marr's quip though, something along the lines of, "Well, I'll wait for your 'killer line' then...".

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XqvR00lU_8s


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: ghanimah on Tuesday, April 25, 2017, 18:02:37
We don't have to go far to find evidence of Corbyn's irritability of being questioned under pressure

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=jeremy+corbyn+angry


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Sir Cliff Pipehard on Tuesday, April 25, 2017, 18:07:04
We don't have to go far to find evidence of Corbyn's irritability of being questioned under pressure

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=jeremy+corbyn+angry

That's passion

 ;)


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: herthab on Tuesday, April 25, 2017, 18:14:36
Can someone who is planning on voting Conservative explain which of their policies are the ones they find most attractive?


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: bamboonoshoe on Tuesday, April 25, 2017, 18:25:50
We don't need to read newspapers to know Corbyn is toxic. Just following his interviews where he is extremely irritable, PMQs and incoherent statements tells us all we need to know that he is incompetent, unfit for high office and completely inconsistent among so many other things.

On a personal note I find it an insult that Labour PPCs' will now be knocking on doors asking the electorate to vote for a party with a leader that the Parliamentary Labour party don't agree with; who have tried relentlessly to oust him resulting in numerous cabinet resignations.

Corbyn himself admitted he didn't want the leadership, the Parliamentary Labour party don't want him as leader so why the hell should the rest of the country?

On the contrary, in PMQs Corbyn has outdone May on many occasions leaving her flustered and unanswerable to the RHG's original question.

I agree with that PPC notion though and that is irony but we've seen it all before across all parties. There is nothing new in getting behind the party leader per se in an election campaign.

Things have changed now and I believe he has grown into the role, much more so than Ed Milliband (well that isn't hard to emulate I guess). There is something about adversity which i'm trying to grasp at here. I've seen many examples before. The story of the man so hated yet in time and through hard work and focus people ended up liking the person and their morals etc. I think as well people can only "hate" so much until it becomes tiresome, boring, and repetitive to the point of annoyance. I think also you're looking at it a little too laterally. His party may be a little cold right now but they'll soon change tack. As for public support, there is more for him so sometimes it is possible for the public to want someone who the party necessarily doesn't. I'm not saying Corbyn is the best out there but he is way more competent than May, who let's remember, was not even voted in.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: mystical_goat on Tuesday, April 25, 2017, 18:31:15
We don't have to go far to find evidence of Corbyn's irritability of being questioned under pressure

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=jeremy+corbyn+angry

I looked at all the links on the first page. These were all which contained anything that may remotely link to your point about supposed 'irritability'....

This is perfectly justified and not a 'snap' IMO.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vTIYzt8izk4

I would avoid this scrum of hacks too, would you not?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zOAGEYu5KYU

Begins 5:12, Krishnan Guru-Murthy is a well-known cretin and gets a completely appropriate dressing down for his rudeness. He presses and interrupts Corbyn whilst he is answering the questions. Is rightly rebuked. Tries to get Corbyn to say he is a terrorist sympathiser with some isolated words taken completely out of context. Dumb, "Tabloid journalism", as he is told.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ofHy8JsgBA

Guru-Murthy is a cretin:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jjC3ycS_2js

This isn't anger it's exactly what everyone on here is saying about the extreme media bias

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k7_pNafffOE

She's trying to write the headline, "Misguided Corbyn confident of election win" here.

"Can you win the snap general election? Are you confident?"
"....We're very confident in getting support to win the election...."
"Yes or no please?"
"FFS, yes."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rBXDrpox-9I

Nonsense amongst a crowd who have come to hear, in short conference, specifically about the NHS, which is being murdered. Press would have been asked to stick to topic. He had talked about this issue in about 10 other interviews, in much more detail.

As summed up in the comments.... ""I'm glad you've watched the cctv so carefully, it's absolutely crucial to the nation and the NHS" brilliant"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X7i7g9hB8H0

Very calm

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o0sbgWgsNBU

I take it if you think he's irritable then you don't buy into the "he is too nice to be PM/leader etc."? Surely you wouldn't want someone leading a party or country that can't form an argument, and answer back when appropriate?

Regardless I'm yet to see any real evidence of a naturally irritable nature whatsoever, in the thousands of hours of footage of him. All of that junk above is mere proof of the bias in coverage, it's almost total nonsense, especially the titling of the videos.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Nemo on Tuesday, April 25, 2017, 18:43:27
I really, really don't want to get drawn into a blocks-of-text war with the Corbyn supporters on here, but I think, sadly to a point as I'm no fan of Theresa May, we're about to experience a perfect example of the simple electoral fact that strength of feeling does not amplify your vote. It's still one vote.

More or less every Corbyn supporter I know venerates the man and seem to be able to find no fault with him (I'm always worried if somebody can't find any fault at all with their favourite politician, but let's not go into that). The problem is he simply doesn't attract people who aren't quite sure about him, and you really, really need to do that in order to win a General Election. You can argue until you're blue (perhaps red) in the face about that being down to the main stream media coverage, but until he learns to play the media game (unlikely after three decades in politics) then he's got as much chance of being elected Prime Minister as I have.

The interesting thing for me is that many Corbyn-Labour supporters would rather see a Corbyn (or generally left leaning) Labour party in opposition than a more "New" Labour candidate actually getting anywhere near power (you could argue that vice versa is also true, but there's less evidence for that). That same instinct just doesn't really seem to exist in the Conservatives, who get vicious as anything in their leadership battles but then unite behind whoever it is that comes out the winner.

Labour are at historic lows in every poll and Corbyn's personal ratings are Michael Foot levels of bad. If you think he is *entirely* blameless for that (again, not saying he's the sole and only reason) then I don't really know how you can expect people to debate with you.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Pax Romana on Tuesday, April 25, 2017, 19:12:33
I really, really don't want to get drawn into a blocks-of-text war with the Corbyn supporters on here, but I think, sadly to a point as I'm no fan of Theresa May, we're about to experience a perfect example of the simple electoral fact that strength of feeling does not amplify your vote. It's still one vote.

More or less every Corbyn supporter I know venerates the man and seem to be able to find no fault with him (I'm always worried if somebody can't find any fault at all with their favourite politician, but let's not go into that). The problem is he simply doesn't attract people who aren't quite sure about him, and you really, really need to do that in order to win a General Election. You can argue until you're blue (perhaps red) in the face about that being down to the main stream media coverage, but until he learns to play the media game (unlikely after three decades in politics) then he's got as much chance of being elected Prime Minister as I have.

The interesting thing for me is that many Corbyn-Labour supporters would rather see a Corbyn (or generally left leaning) Labour party in opposition than a more "New" Labour candidate actually getting anywhere near power (you could argue that vice versa is also true, but there's less evidence for that). That same instinct just doesn't really seem to exist in the Conservatives, who get vicious as anything in their leadership battles but then unite behind whoever it is that comes out the winner.

Labour are at historic lows in every poll and Corbyn's personal ratings are Michael Foot levels of bad. If you think he is *entirely* blameless for that (again, not saying he's the sole and only reason) then I don't really know how you can expect people to debate with you.


I don't think I have ever read anything anywhere on this forum that I so totally agree with as this.

And to respond to Hertha's question re what tory policies any tory voters on here actually agree with.  Like the current labour party membership and Corbyn you're missing the point.  

Yes there are people who positively vote tory (out of self interest, a belief in the free market and in some instances a bizarre deference to their 'betters') but they are never enough to win an election.  The swing vote that wins elections for the Tories are the people who naturally want to vote labour but feel forced to vote Tory out of desperation.

Socialists despise Social Democrats as Tory-lite but the reality is that this is what wins elections.  The country voted in Blair against all shades of Tory leaders.  They voted out Foot, Kinnoch, Brown, Milliband regardless of whether the tory leader was hard Thatcher, soft Major or patrician Cameron.  It's so fucking obvious it amazes me that the labour membership can't (or won't) recognise it.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Saxondale on Tuesday, April 25, 2017, 19:22:58
As a Labour member I talk to a lot of other members and see a huge amount of desolation.  We voted in Corbyn, a man I like with ideas I like, but there was little else as an option.  No one offered a credible more centre left option.  Certainly when the 'coup' tried to oust him on spurious bullshit anti membership reasoning.

Owen Smith?  Angela Eagle?  Fuck me, inspire me. Inspire the younger generations, dont throw me a suit with another amorphous blob of politician in it.

Anyway, we're fucked.  We're all fucked.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: herthab on Tuesday, April 25, 2017, 19:27:19
Can someone who is planning on voting Conservative explain which of their policies are the ones they find most attractive?

Anyone?


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: bamboonoshoe on Tuesday, April 25, 2017, 19:37:47
Anyone?
Hertha, see Pax Romana post...


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Hugh Kerrs on Tuesday, April 25, 2017, 19:40:38
Anyone?
[/quote

The reintroduction of fox hunting ;)


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Hugh Kerrs on Tuesday, April 25, 2017, 19:42:56
Anyone?
[/quote

The reintroduction of fox hunting ;)

and the clamping down on disability allowance


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: herthab on Tuesday, April 25, 2017, 19:49:51
Hertha, see Pax Romana post...

That doesn't answer the question. Unless the answer is that people are voting Tory whilst not agreeing with what they will do, or have already done, which is a bit baffling.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: bamboonoshoe on Tuesday, April 25, 2017, 20:07:01
I really, really don't want to get drawn into a blocks-of-text war with the Corbyn supporters on here, but I think, sadly to a point as I'm no fan of Theresa May, we're about to experience a perfect example of the simple electoral fact that strength of feeling does not amplify your vote. It's still one vote.

More or less every Corbyn supporter I know venerates the man and seem to be able to find no fault with him (I'm always worried if somebody can't find any fault at all with their favourite politician, but let's not go into that). The problem is he simply doesn't attract people who aren't quite sure about him, and you really, really need to do that in order to win a General Election. You can argue until you're blue (perhaps red) in the face about that being down to the main stream media coverage, but until he learns to play the media game (unlikely after three decades in politics) then he's got as much chance of being elected Prime Minister as I have.

The interesting thing for me is that many Corbyn-Labour supporters would rather see a Corbyn (or generally left leaning) Labour party in opposition than a more "New" Labour candidate actually getting anywhere near power (you could argue that vice versa is also true, but there's less evidence for that). That same instinct just doesn't really seem to exist in the Conservatives, who get vicious as anything in their leadership battles but then unite behind whoever it is that comes out the winner.

Labour are at historic lows in every poll and Corbyn's personal ratings are Michael Foot levels of bad. If you think he is *entirely* blameless for that (again, not saying he's the sole and only reason) then I don't really know how you can expect people to debate with you.


I wouldn't put myself down as a Corbyn supporter. I'm certainly not though, like yourself, a May supporter. I do think Corbyn is with fault and I think he also realises this. He is however full of passion and is coming across to the normal man as if he cares. Whether he really does or not we can transfer this to every politician in the history of time and we'll never truly know.

Hmmm true you need to attract the undecided but I think we could put that on those undecided about May too. Put them both together and who would most people vote for? On the one hand you have an unelected individual posing as a watery Maggie Thatcher who is the only one believing her own hype. On the other you have a guy deemed too nice to lead a country to stability who probably doesn't believe his own hype. For me May is trying the Iron fist approach but she is really just Lead. Looks tough, but is soft and malleable meaning it's easy to turn around. Corbyn is probably guilty of trying too hard. When he gets it right however he is firm and accurate and puts anyone in their place with hard facts.

See I don't think May plays the media game very well tbh. Does she have every chance of being PM as yourself or is your position actually slightly better? *sic :) For example, May was quoted in the media as saying that Jeremy Hunt is a fantastic Health Secretary and that the Tories have invested more in the NHS since they've been in power. When you look at the actual figures, since Jeremy Hunt has been Health Sec. every available piece of data has gone down, the investment has gone down. In fact the only thing that has gone up is.....waiting times! How can a person in her position plainly lie about this when there is so much data readily available to the general public, which totally contradicts what she is trying to lay claim as truth?


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: bamboonoshoe on Tuesday, April 25, 2017, 20:11:08
That doesn't answer the question. Unless the answer is that people are voting Tory whilst not agreeing with what they will do, or have already done, which is a bit baffling.

Granted, I was just trying to help. Pax merely responded but not to the direct request of your question. So it still stands...no one has answer your question on Tory policy.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: mystical_goat on Tuesday, April 25, 2017, 22:38:42
You can argue until you're blue (perhaps red) in the face about that being down to the main stream media coverage, but until he learns to play the media game (unlikely after three decades in politics) then he's got as much chance of being elected Prime Minister as I have.

I think you have to consider that it is also a case of not being allowed to play the game, rather than not being able to, wanting to, or learning to.

Of course he wants to make positive contributions in his media appearances, for himself and the party, in print and on television. He regularly gives interviews, as many as you would expect, and receives front page news. He speaks well, as I would hope a politician to; without triviality or any facade. I do not want a showman/woman to represent us, I would rather someone who has worked their arse off for the public for 30+ years, with steadfast values of a compassionate nature.

However, the tone and selectivity of the material printed and screened gives a subtly distorted message, distributed via his opponent-owned agencies who paint a carefully tainted picture. So careful and gradual that it's sometimes hard to detect. Sometimes, quite obvious, like in the majority of clips supposed to show his 'angry' nature.

For me, that he is not willing to compromise his values and integrity by going a bit extreme/populist/'motivational speaker' is a good thing. The general pomp/pathetic theatre of the House of Commons is utterly embarrassing and a true reflection of some of the people that sit in there. Cameron loved it and I recall Blair and Hague possibly pioneering such 'banter' (urghhh), which is about the limit of my historic knowledge of televised politics, other than some great Benn/Skinner clips.

I do not believe there is any tactic Corbyn could employ that would garner a significantly more positive level of coverage by media. They would simply ignore it or try to somehow turn it against him. It is not only not in their interest, but completely against their firm preservationist mentalities. There are examples of recent years of huge protests not being covered or barely being mentioned by the media, pre-Corbyn (rise of), showing their bias to anything paricularly anti-establishment.

Combined with the fact that many Labour MP's and those at the top of the party seem reluctant 'supporters', or opposed to many of his values, despite the overwhelming mandate in the membership vote, his ability to get across his messages and PR are being limited.

That new Wikipedia independent news website looks interesting.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-39695767


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: RobertT on Tuesday, April 25, 2017, 22:55:20
The problem with Corbyn is that he stands, very firmly, for an ideology that is loved by a small % of the overall population.  He is the opposite almost of a Farage.  Those that love that ideology will love Corbyn and have no idea how other people can think the other way.

Hertha - I'm guessing rhetoric on immigration, a view that they the tax people less from their pay packets (people will always vote for income tax reductions, even if the party promised to increase indirect taxation by the equal amount), reduction in the size of government (I include welfare in this).  Now, the last point is always an odd one to me as very few actual ideas will reduce the burden on this front because it's pensions that consume the vast majority of spending, but some people love to vote for a party that says they'll stop scroungers!


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: mystical_goat on Tuesday, April 25, 2017, 23:07:27
The problem with Corbyn is that he stands, very firmly, for an ideology that is loved by a small % of the overall population.  He is the opposite almost of a Farage.  Those that love that ideology will love Corbyn and have no idea how other people can think the other way.

Hold your horses with Farage there!

Not sure he's that extreme, especially in contrast to the way both Labour and the Tories have both crept towards basically the same middle ground over the last 15 or so years?

Agree though that he could be perceived as a bit niche, again amplified. This is quite alarming:

Quote
"If you get your information about politics from the newspapers or the television you are allowing yourself to be misled.

Only 11% of newspaper stories about Jeremy Corbyn accurately state a single one of his actual policies. In the extreme-right Daily Mail and Express that figure falls to 0% ...

And if you think the BBC are unbiased, just remember that they let Laura Kuenssberg keep her job despite their own report admitting that she fabricated a fake story about Jeremy Corbyn in order to launch a political attack on him.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: jayohaitchenn on Wednesday, April 26, 2017, 01:31:15
The last couple of pages of this thread have been excellent.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: ghanimah on Wednesday, April 26, 2017, 16:22:49
Peter Lilley, a member of the Tory Lunatic Fringe, is not standing again. Good news which indicates further that advocates of the disastrous WTO Brexit option are losing their power.

http://www.hertfordshiremercury.co.uk/hitchin-and-harpenden-mp-peter-lilley-announces-his-decision-to-stand-down-after-34-years/story-30294974-detail/story.html


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: hobodan on Wednesday, April 26, 2017, 21:22:36
I could never vote for a PM who would scrap our nuclear deterrent. This is why Corbyn will have NO chance of winning...

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ZjjVv3LwrUQ


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: sonicyouth on Wednesday, April 26, 2017, 23:39:01
I'd vote for him on the basis of scrapping trident.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: mystical_goat on Thursday, April 27, 2017, 00:22:04
France is the only other European country with nuclear weapons. If we need them, why doesn't anyone else, like Germany?

I could never vote for a PM who would scrap our nuclear deterrent. This is why Corbyn will have NO chance of winning...

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ZjjVv3LwrUQ

I made it two sentences into that idiotic voiceover. Who is this and what authority or knowledge do they have on the subject?! It's really dumb.

Quote
"Right, so he's just looking for the power."

As someone has mentioned in the recent pages of this thread, you don't sit among your party for 34 years, then become leader due to a sudden realisation of your hunger for power, and this is clearly not in his character. Absolute nonsense.

Quote
"We don't want to see a very different country. We like our country. Our country is the way it is because we made it this way and that's the way we like it."

Yeah we love the way the NHS is being murdered, firefighters are in desperation, the disabled are being run into poverty, mentally ill people are having their help and support significantly reduced or withdrawn, schools are facing a huge funding crisis and budget shortfall, some were tricked into Brexit voting by huge lies, empty promises and misinformation, record numbers of people are having to use food banks, nobody new can get on the housing market because of landlords and foreign investors with huge portfolios, prisons run by private companies are rife with drugs and violence, turning criminals into hardened repeat offenders and relatively normal people into drug addicts.

All this whilst corporation tax has been reduced and May and her cabinet expand their £70m of personal wealth by promoting and making decisions in their own interests.

This country is being run really well, with real concern and care for its citizens, and most people have benefited from the brilliant leadership and decisions made by our current government (none of whom you may notice are around any more, except Boris who they hide at the back now, because he is too pertinent a reminder of all that cuntishness). We are represented by people who are experts in their fields, passionate about helping the public they represent, and readily make impartial decisions without any motivation towards their many business interests and greed for more personal wealth, for the benefit of the electorate.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: skiptotheLouMacari on Thursday, April 27, 2017, 06:02:54
France is the only other European country with nuclear weapons. If we need them, why doesn't anyone else, like Germany?

I made it two sentences into that idiotic voiceover. Who is this and what authority or knowledge do they have on the subject?! It's really dumb.

As someone has mentioned in the recent pages of this thread, you don't sit among your party for 34 years, then become leader due to a sudden realisation of your hunger for power, and this is clearly not in his character. Absolute nonsense.

Yeah we love the way the NHS is being murdered, firefighters are in desperation, the disabled are being run into poverty, mentally ill people are having their help and support significantly reduced or withdrawn, schools are facing a huge funding crisis and budget shortfall, some were tricked into Brexit voting by huge lies, empty promises and misinformation, record numbers of people are having to use food banks, nobody new can get on the housing market because of landlords and foreign investors with huge portfolios, prisons run by private companies are rife with drugs and violence, turning criminals into hardened repeat offenders and relatively normal people into drug addicts.

All this whilst corporation tax has been reduced and May and her cabinet expand their £70m of personal wealth by promoting and making decisions in their own interests.

This country is being run really well, with real concern and care for its citizens, and most people have benefited from the brilliant leadership and decisions made by our current government (none of whom you may notice are around any more, except Boris who they hide at the back now, because he is too pertinent a reminder of all that cuntishness). We are represented by people who are experts in their fields, passionate about helping the public they represent, and readily make impartial decisions without any motivation towards their many business interests and greed for more personal wealth, for the benefit of the electorate.

You hit the nail on the head directly with this, these issues have been bouncing between red and blue for years now and Corbyn has certainly rufled a few feathers.
My stance on trident is we need a deterrent. Without it would be like going into conflict armed only with a paint balling gun.
My stance with Corbyn is, he us so anti this country, he has publicly refused to acknowledge the monarchy, has publicly let known his support for many faces of terrorism whilst attending rallies for dead IRA murdering scum,. Yet he has stated we should scrap our own remembrance parades.
Its good the government is being hunted down but i don't think this is the man who should be in charge of our country. Corporations need holding to account for tax avoidance raise money that way, to booster the NHS/schools/police/fire not cut the Armed Forces anymore, or use the £300,000,000 or so we give the EU each week to do it.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: hobodan on Thursday, April 27, 2017, 08:14:34
Why do people need an 'authority' to voice an opinion? The guy has a channel called 'Sargon of Akkad', in fairness he's a very clever guy and has very realistic political views for a liberal as he describes himself.
I don't disagree with some of Corbyn's anti globalist views, but the guy has some ridiculous ideas. Like scrapping trident. He's also said he'd like us to have no military. Total crackpot....


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: pauld on Thursday, April 27, 2017, 08:35:41
He's also said he'd like us to have no military. Total crackpot....
Really? When/where did he say that? Not saying he didn't, just curious if this is genuine


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Nemo on Thursday, April 27, 2017, 08:41:03
I see the Tories have let Boris out of whichever cupboard they had him locked up in. They must be confident.

Oh, and Zac Goldsmith is standing again in Richmond... for the Conservatives, the party he resigned from on a point of principle over Heathrow less than a year ago, which hasn't since changed. Entertainingly he could now lose a third election inside 12 months. What a champ.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: jayohaitchenn on Thursday, April 27, 2017, 09:26:56
Sargon of Akkad. He's a mate of mine, very successful youtube channel and a flaming liberal. He just doesn't like Jeremy Corbyn. We've had some great chats about it.

Here's another video from before he was so famous:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TqnwUSevgo4


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Tails on Thursday, April 27, 2017, 10:11:30
I'd vote for him on the basis of scrapping trident.

Yep same.

The more the media go after Corbyn the more inclined I feel to vote for him.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Reg Smeeton on Thursday, April 27, 2017, 10:27:31
 Good stuff from the Goat. You sound as if you could be getting active politically  :hmmm:

 On the subject of foodbanks, apparently it's estimated that the changes to the welfare system arriving this April will increase their use, particularly amogst young people, Swindon is reckoned the 6th most likely place to see a significant rise in the country.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Arriba on Thursday, April 27, 2017, 12:11:39
Much of this debate has been about those at the top ie May and Corbyn. What about the local situation here in Swindon and the 2 seats to be fought out. I find in particular Justin Tomlinson to be an odious little snake. His conduct and voting record is shameful. Do the Tory supporters on here have confidence in that man? Are they happy to vote for such an Individual? Or are local politics not as important in a general election?


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: pauld on Thursday, April 27, 2017, 12:17:13
Much of this debate has been about those at the top ie May and Corbyn. What about the local situation here in Swindon and the 2 seats to be fought out. I find in particular Justin Tomlinson to be an odious little snake. His conduct and voting record is shameful. Do the Tory supporters on here have confidence in that man? Are they happy to vote for such an Individual? Or are local politics not as important in a general election?
(Not a Tory supporter, btw) What is it about JT's conduct/voting record that's provoked your ire arriba?


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Nemo on Thursday, April 27, 2017, 12:19:37
In case anyone wants to look for themselves, here is Justin Tomlinson's voting record:

https://www.theyworkforyou.com/mp/24870/justin_tomlinson/north_swindon

Also Robert Buckland's (South Swindon):

https://www.theyworkforyou.com/mp/24843/robert_buckland/south_swindon

Oddly, both followed the whip on more or less everything apart from investigating the Iraq War, which seems a weird thing to rebel on. Oh, and Buckland voted against equal marriage which is charming.

Same site has all sitting MPs if you live outside of Swindon. Get to know your local candidate - it's not just about who'd be the best PM, especially in an election like this one where all signs point to it not being especially close on that front.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Reg Smeeton on Thursday, April 27, 2017, 12:20:22
(Not a Tory supporter, btw) What is it about JT's conduct/voting record that's provoked your ire arriba?

His support for attacks on the disabled would be a good start.  Even IDS resigned....


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Arriba on Thursday, April 27, 2017, 12:22:03
(Not a Tory supporter, btw) What is it about JT's conduct/voting record that's provoked your ire arriba?

His voting record speaks for itself. Reg has got there first with the most disgusting item. Then we have the wonga farce too of course. He often doesn't commit to giving an opinion until after events and has backtracked when decisions have become unpopular, amongst his own party even.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: pauld on Thursday, April 27, 2017, 12:25:57
Fair enough, I assumed it was Wonga and the record as Minister for Persecuting the Disabled, just curious if there was anything else. Buckland's my MP, not especially controversial AFAIK, just a careerist empty suit


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Reg Smeeton on Thursday, April 27, 2017, 12:33:42
His voting record speaks for itself. Reg has got there first with the most disgusting item. Then we have the wonga farce too of course. He often doesn't commit to giving an opinion until after events and has backtracked when decisions have become unpopular, amongst his own party even.

The clip of Tomlinson blubbing when having to apologise to the House over his Wonga dealings was one of the most nauseous things I've seen in many a year.

The fact that he got £30K from the Supermarine fella, who then got £30K from Wonga was just coincidence, as was the fact he then told Wonga what the governments plans were.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: jayohaitchenn on Thursday, April 27, 2017, 12:36:25
Wasn't he actually minister for the disabled too? The Wonga farce should've cost him his job. Corrupt prick.

While I disagree with Buckland on almost every issue, he is actually a pretty good MP. He always personally answers emails (we had a brilliant chat about the PIP payment - we agreed to disagree on that one) and he does work hard for his constituents. I wouldn't bloody vote for him though.

Neither of them are sqeaky clean.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/robert-buckland-tory-law-officer-has-money-in-film-partnership-that-is-being-investigated-by-hmrc-10032684.html


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Reg Smeeton on Thursday, April 27, 2017, 12:43:19
Wasn't he actually minister for the disabled too? The Wonga farce should've cost him his job. Corrupt prick.

While I disagree with Buckland on almost every issue, he is actually a pretty good MP. He always personally answers emails (we had a brilliant chat about the PIP payment - we agreed to disagree on that one) and he does work hard for his constituents. I wouldn't bloody vote for him though.

Neither of them are sqeaky clean.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/robert-buckland-tory-law-officer-has-money-in-film-partnership-that-is-being-investigated-by-hmrc-10032684.html

Don't forget Buckland also told porkies to Cameron... neglecting to mention his censure for dodgy dealings when apointed Solicitor General.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-28393743


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: pauld on Thursday, April 27, 2017, 12:49:45
Don't forget Buckland also told porkies to Cameron
Yeah but Cameron likes porkies :)


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Arriba on Thursday, April 27, 2017, 12:55:38
The clip of Tomlinson blubbing when having to apologise to the House over his Wonga dealings was one of the most nauseous things I've seen in many a year.

The fact that he got £30K from the Supermarine fella, who then got £30K from Wonga was just coincidence, as was the fact he then told Wonga what the governments plans were.

I laughed at the weasel cunt. Blubbing for himself as he'd been caught like a naughty schoolboy apologising in assembly.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Reg Smeeton on Thursday, April 27, 2017, 13:15:08
Fair enough, I assumed it was Wonga and the record as Minister for Persecuting the Disabled, just curious if there was anything else. Buckland's my MP, not especially controversial AFAIK, just a careerist empty suit

I go back to the days of Francis Noel-Baker as Swindon MP.  He was an interesting character. I read his autobiography, got the Swindon gig by the time honoured method of being a bit of an outsider. In Swindon, the left of the Labour Party hated the right, and vice versa. The opposing wings would accept a middle candidate, but not one of the other lots.

Bit of a toff, the section in the book where he's taken on a tour of Swindon Working Men's Clubs, to get to meet his constituents... wonderful.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/obituaries/politics-obituaries/6240722/Francis-Noel-Baker.html

I suspect Buckland's obit won't take up so much Torygraph print.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Simon Pieman on Thursday, April 27, 2017, 13:34:32
Much of this debate has been about those at the top ie May and Corbyn. What about the local situation here in Swindon and the 2 seats to be fought out. I find in particular Justin Tomlinson to be an odious little snake. His conduct and voting record is shameful. Do the Tory supporters on here have confidence in that man? Are they happy to vote for such an Individual? Or are local politics not as important in a general election?

There are upcoming parish elections next week too


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Arriba on Thursday, April 27, 2017, 13:46:09
There are upcoming parish elections next week too

Probably a spoiled vote for me though not 100% sure yet. I don't consider myself to live in a parish.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: pauld on Thursday, April 27, 2017, 13:52:35
There are upcoming parish elections next week too
That's a right fucking con, that. The Tories deserve an absolute pasting at the ballot box for that alone, shocking piece of political shenannigans, would put Tammany Hall to shame


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: ghanimah on Thursday, April 27, 2017, 13:57:12
France is the only other European country with nuclear weapons. If we need them, why doesn't anyone else, like Germany?

Germany is under NATO article 5 umbrella thus its defense relies on the nuclear capabilities of other NATO members, against say Russia. That Germany doesn't have nuclear weapons itself is due to very obvious historical reasons.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: jayohaitchenn on Thursday, April 27, 2017, 13:59:04
That's a right fucking con, that. The Tories deserve an absolute pasting at the ballot box for that alone, shocking piece of political shenannigans, would put Tammany Hall to shame

Everyone in Swindon now pays the Non-Parish charge! You couldn't make it up.

Nadine Watts (Labour again) for me, if she's standing. One of the hardest working councillors in Swindon.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Simon Pieman on Thursday, April 27, 2017, 14:17:20
Everyone in Swindon now pays the Non-Parish charge! You couldn't make it up.

Nadine Watts (Labour again) for me, if she's standing. One of the hardest working councillors in Swindon.

I'm fairly sure there are 5 seats up for grabs where I vote and that means voting 5 times!


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Batch on Thursday, April 27, 2017, 14:45:55
I don't think we get one.. already established  parish
.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Reg Smeeton on Thursday, April 27, 2017, 15:02:40
That's a right fucking con, that. The Tories deserve an absolute pasting at the ballot box for that alone, shocking piece of political shenannigans, would put Tammany Hall to shame

Our 2 MP's have been strangely quiet about this bit  of political corruption.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Wobbly Bob on Thursday, April 27, 2017, 16:59:48
 
Early days in the campaign and it looks as if the Tory approach is a May v Corbyn thing with minimal reference to policy thus far.
Looks as if Labour will be concentrating on policy. They just need to make sure that all of the sums add up when the manifesto appears to bolster credibility. I fear that their campaign needs to be a damage limitation exercise more than anything.

I read one of the right wing red tops and my god, the attacks on and belittling of Corbyn are relentless. If the letters pages are truly representative of society, then the future for this country is scary indeed.

Don't get the strong leader matters above all else thing.
The main attribute, surely, must be a desire to attain true equality, both social & economic, for all citizens regardless of status.

We've already witnessed attempted assaults on those who are "just about managing" which the current government now purports to represent.
Also fully expect the pensioners to be fucked over when the triple lock disappears in the Tory manifesto.

All of the parties have their faults, but there is nothing more nasty or vindictive than a full throttle Tory government.

As for Trident, the biggest nuclear threat is terrorist's getting hold of a dirty bomb where a conventional deterrent would be useless.
In a more conventional setting, if Russia or China chose to unleash their full nuclear arsenal then our few poxy missiles are not going to make much difference by way of effective deterrent.
Just bring everything under the auspices of NATO and concentrate on building an effictive missile defence system if required. The war on terror is waged in cyberspace, so spend the money there.

Better still, divert the billions of pounds wasted on shit that kills people to positive shit that could cure diseases and improve all of our lives.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: pauld on Thursday, April 27, 2017, 23:55:50
He's also said he'd like us to have no military. Total crackpot....
Really? When/where did he say that? Not saying he didn't, just curious if this is genuine
Given the lack of answer, I'm guessing this is the standard "I read it in the Mail so it must be true" horseshit then?


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: REDBUCK on Friday, April 28, 2017, 07:19:14
I'd be interested to know how you think this is achievable

"The main attribute, surely, must be a desire to attain true equality, both social & economic, for all citizens regardless of status"


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: jayohaitchenn on Friday, April 28, 2017, 10:36:39
I'd be interested to know how you think this is achievable

"The main attribute, surely, must be a desire to attain true equality, both social & economic, for all citizens regardless of status"

We could start by making the tax system fairer?

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/hmrc-tax-richest-high-net-worth-unit-public-accounts-committee-mps-a7547596.html


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: horlock07 on Friday, April 28, 2017, 11:06:46
I don't think I have ever read anything anywhere on this forum that I so totally agree with as this.


Yes there are people who positively vote tory (out of self interest, a belief in the free market and in some instances a bizarre deference to their 'betters') but they are never enough to win an election.  The swing vote that wins elections for the Tories are the people who naturally want to vote labour but feel forced to vote Tory out of desperation.


I cannot imagine ever wanting to vote Labour or Lib Dem and ending up voting Tory out of desperation, spoil your paper but don't help them claim they have the 'will of the people'. Its all getting a bit close to Schrödinger's Tory as we had in 2015 where loads of people stated on social media and in the pre-election polls that they would never vote Tory... and then quietly did!


Owen Smith?  Angela Eagle?  Fuck me, inspire me. Inspire the younger generations, dont throw me a suit with another amorphous blob of politician in it.


I have always like a bit of Liz Kendall although that might be more to do with the fact she looks like a naughty teacher?



Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Wobbly Bob on Friday, April 28, 2017, 11:49:18
I'd be interested to know how you think this is achievable

"The main attribute, surely, must be a desire to attain true equality, both social & economic, for all citizens regardless of status"

Oh bollocks. Was doing a reply but took so bloody long that the session timed out.  :suicide:
Might try again later once regained the will to live and done some work.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: jayohaitchenn on Friday, April 28, 2017, 12:16:49
Repeat after me, "Strong and stable, strong and stable, strong and stable"

https://twitter.com/RossCrombie/status/857710963818156034


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Sir Cliff Pipehard on Friday, April 28, 2017, 14:29:01

https://twitter.com/TMayCasebooks/status/857537472087175168

 :)


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: horlock07 on Friday, April 28, 2017, 17:12:50
Good to see football bringing down a Tory.... http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-northamptonshire-39740178


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: horlock07 on Friday, April 28, 2017, 17:30:15
Yes I know its the Guardian but its quite an entertaining read....

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/apr/28/theresa-may-snowflakes-health-and-safety-election

I cannot get the image out of my head of Theresa May washing her hands with antiseptic wipes whenever she has to shake hands with one of us plebs!


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: mystical_goat on Friday, April 28, 2017, 21:23:36
A good enough reason on its own to not vote Tory and stop the destruction of the NHS. For personal profit.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wSmPIBJWXGM


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Reg Smeeton on Friday, April 28, 2017, 21:46:41
A good enough reason on its own to not vote Tory and stop the destruction of the NHS. For personal profit.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wSmPIBJWXGM

I also find it curious that people with kids will seemingly vote for Grammar Schools.... I guess they think their kids will be going, when of course it's axiomatic that more won't. This seems to be May's sole policy pronouncement.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: hobodan on Saturday, April 29, 2017, 17:24:01
This election is going to be largely about Brexit. I voted remain, but I am so pissed off with the rhetoric coming out of the EU with regards to punishing Britain for simply following the democratic will of the people. Realistically the conservatives are the only party who will stand up and fight for Britain. Lib dems don't want us to leave the EU and Corbyn is a complete wet idiot.
I would happily vote labour in a local election but under no circumstances would I want Corbyn to be our P.M. And let's face it, he won't be.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: ibelieveinmrreeves on Sunday, April 30, 2017, 00:32:16
Got into this earlier with a mate - his opinion is "well, I'm alright and so is my family, so I see no reason to change" - fucking look and you'll find them! Mind you, he wants healthcare provided through work and loves zero hours contract. Warned him his son will suffer with education cuts, but think I was on a hiding to nothing there.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: herthab on Sunday, April 30, 2017, 06:54:57
Got into this earlier with a mate - his opinion is "well, I'm alright and so is my family, so I see no reason to change" - fucking look and you'll find them! Mind you, he wants healthcare provided through work and loves zero hours contract. Warned him his son will suffer with education cuts, but think I was on a hiding to nothing there.

He loves zero hours contracts? Is he on one?


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: ibelieveinmrreeves on Sunday, April 30, 2017, 10:34:29
He loves zero hours contracts? Is he on one?

Nah, manages people who are.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: herthab on Sunday, April 30, 2017, 11:19:46
Nah, manages people who are.

Yeah. No wonder he loves them, makes his job easier. Doesn't matter I suppose that those he manages would struggle  to plan financially, or socially and would have problems securing credit, or even renting housing. I wonder if he'd be so enamoured if he was on a zero hours contract. Somehow I doubt it..


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Reg Smeeton on Sunday, April 30, 2017, 11:29:09
This election is going to be largely about Brexit. I voted remain, but I am so pissed off with the rhetoric coming out of the EU with regards to punishing Britain for simply following the democratic will of the people. Realistically the conservatives are the only party who will stand up and fight for Britain.

Realistically, it was the Tories that got us into this Brexit mess, and they haven't the first clue as to how to deal with it. I don't see any punishment rhetoric, coming from the EU, more like you can't have your cake and eat it attitude, which seems reasonable enough.

The next few years are going to be fun, as the Mail readers come to realise that sadly we can't go back to the 1950's.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: ibelieveinmrreeves on Sunday, April 30, 2017, 11:59:41
Yeah. No wonder he loves them, makes his job easier. Doesn't matter I suppose that those he manages would struggle  to plan financially, or socially and would have problems securing credit, or even renting housing. I wonder if he'd be so enamoured if he was on a zero hours contract. Somehow I doubt it..

But it allows them to have the flexibility they want!


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: bamboonoshoe on Sunday, April 30, 2017, 13:11:57
Got into this earlier with a mate - his opinion is "well, I'm alright and so is my family, so I see no reason to change" - fucking look and you'll find them! Mind you, he wants healthcare provided through work and loves zero hours contract. Warned him his son will suffer with education cuts, but think I was on a hiding to nothing there.

This is the stance that many hold today and it's completely selfish. These are the same people that say "Charity starts at home" and "Well it's not happening here so it doesn't matter" No, sorry, charity starts where it's needed and that will always be the case. If that so happens to be at home sometimes then so be it but people who say that as a given irk me. Yeah we start a war (or join one) in another country and strangely enough the people residing there flee. When they turn up here people then have the cheek to complain. So to surmise; If people had been happy to let charity be spent away and protested against a war in another country then maybe, just maybe those people fleeing would not be fleeing and turning up on our doorstep.

I understand your predicament though, I have similar "discussions" with family members. It's so disheartening yet the saddest thing is they don't seem capable of having a more open mind :/


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: ghanimah on Sunday, April 30, 2017, 15:37:23
This election is going to be largely about Brexit. I voted remain, but I am so pissed off with the rhetoric coming out of the EU with regards to punishing Britain for simply following the democratic will of the people.

As a long-term leaver, I take the view the EU has simply stated the facts to a Tory government that is in denial about how the EU works - a party which has long been in denial about our relationship.

The EU is not being unreasonable - quite the opposite it's our own side that is clueless. Merkel et al is simply telling us to grow up about the realities of negotiations. I tend to agree with that.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: RedRag on Sunday, April 30, 2017, 15:40:41
I would be interested if Hobodan were able to give just one example of any EU official talking about punishing the UK?


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: hobodan on Sunday, April 30, 2017, 18:14:59
Oh come on 😂 Have you not seen Merkels latest statement about about the UK having unrealistic expectations? In fairness it's been a constant stream of EU officials spouting how the Uk are going to get a bad deal.
I never knew we had so many wet lefties around these parts......


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Bogus Dave on Sunday, April 30, 2017, 18:49:13
I think it's unrealistic to expect the EU to bend over and be rogered by the uk? Which they've consistently said, since well before the referendum? It's just common sense, and failure to see that is typical of 90% of the morons who voted to leave


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: ron dodgers on Sunday, April 30, 2017, 18:52:35
I've decided not to be a democrat any more


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Outletred on Sunday, April 30, 2017, 18:55:43
The EU can do one.

They're showing themselves up for what they are.

Think we will end up just walking away.

And as for the divorce bill- quite how an organisation that has not had accounts audited and signed off for 20 years know the liability of a member state is beyond me- they're just trying it on as we pay 1/5 of the total budget


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: jayohaitchenn on Sunday, April 30, 2017, 20:11:54
The 27 other member states are ganging up on the one that wants to leave?! WELL I NEVER


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: chalkies_shorts on Sunday, April 30, 2017, 20:33:03
I think it's unrealistic to expect the EU to bend over and be rogered by the uk? Which they've consistently said, since well before the referendum? It's just common sense, and failure to see that is typical of 90% of the morons who voted to leave

I'm a majority moron. Yippee.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: hobodan on Sunday, April 30, 2017, 20:38:13
I voted remain. If we had another vote now I'd vote leave. It's been interesting to see the real attitude the rest of the EU has towards Britain. Let's face it, we were / are just a cash cow for them. Amazing how quickly they forget their history.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: The Grim Reaper on Sunday, April 30, 2017, 22:32:49
The chances of 27 countries agreeing to the "final" Brexit deal is nil..so lets not waste two years and just cancel the direct debit, offer a reciprocal tariff free trade deal to anyone who wants it and get on with trading with the 85% of the world that is non EU trade. You don’t need a secession article to secede. If you stop paying your subscription, stop attending the meetings, people would notice that you’d left.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: RedRag on Monday, May 1, 2017, 01:09:31
The EU can do one... - quite how an organisation that has not had accounts audited and signed off for 20 years know the liability of a member state is beyond me
In the interests of accuracy, the statement above about the EU accounts is untrue. 










Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: hobodan on Monday, May 1, 2017, 09:22:37
More 'rhetoric' from the EU nazis 😳

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/05/01/jean-claude-juncker-says-theresa-may-deluded-scathing-call-angela/


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Nemo on Monday, May 1, 2017, 09:33:57
Out of interest, if France under Marine Le Pen had voted out and was now demanding all the benefits of being in the EU with none of the downsides, would you be furious if we and the other remaining EU nations said that that wasn't really on?

I think most of the rhetoric on both sides is for their home audiences - it suits both May and Merkel to look like tough negotiators in this current posturing stage. Hopefully when it comes to actually negotiation, more reasonable heads will prevail and we won't end up in a spiteful tit-for-tat war of micro aggressions, because both sides have a lot to lose from that, despite what some of the more ardent 'just walk away' types might think.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: chalkies_shorts on Monday, May 1, 2017, 09:40:13
Out of interest, if France under Marine Le Pen had voted out and was now demanding all the benefits of being in the EU with none of the downsides, would you be furious if we and the other remaining EU nations said that that wasn't really on?

I think most of the rhetoric on both sides is for their home audiences - it suits both May and Merkel to look like tough negotiators in this current posturing stage. Hopefully when it comes to actually negotiation, more reasonable heads will prevail and we won't end up in a spiteful tit-for-tat war of micro aggressions, because both sides have a lot to lose from that, despite what some of the more ardent 'just walk away' types might think.
Well put. I'd happily walk away but hope we can come to a peaceful divorce. You would expect a lot of posturing at this stage. I want to see a successful Europe but a more successful England. Both sides don't have to lose but it is totally unrealistic to expect the same deal outside the EU as in it.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Batch on Monday, May 1, 2017, 10:04:17
it's almost like the EU is sticking up for the EU. The bastards.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Reg Smeeton on Monday, May 1, 2017, 10:16:50
More 'rhetoric' from the EU nazis 😳

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/05/01/jean-claude-juncker-says-theresa-may-deluded-scathing-call-angela/

I'd have thought calling someone who campaigned for remain, who is now angling for a hard Brexit, deluded, is not unreasonable.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Saxondale on Monday, May 1, 2017, 10:38:31
Apparently it is unreasonable enough to start claiming they are Nazis.  Maybe if you read between the lines he was gassing some Jews at the same time.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Reg Smeeton on Monday, May 1, 2017, 10:51:54
Apparently it is unreasonable enough to start claiming they are Nazis.  Maybe if you read between the lines he was gassing some Jews at the same time.

Junker is right up there with Dornier, Messerschmitt, Fokker Wolf and Heinkel in the average Brexiteer's nightmares.

I'd wager David Davis, even built an Airfix model of a Junker once upon a time.

(http://test2.fiddlersgreen.net/aircraft/Junkers-Ju87/IMAGES/Junkers-Ju87-Parked.jpg)


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: herthab on Monday, May 1, 2017, 11:48:34
it's almost like the EU is sticking up for the EU. The bastards.

Well put.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: RedRag on Monday, May 1, 2017, 11:50:29
they're just trying it on as we pay 1/5 of the total budget
Untrue.  That neatly doubles the share of what the UK pays (before it receives anything back).

The EU budget for 2016 was £131 bn. at today's GBP/Euro exchange rate.

The Pre-Rebate UK contribution was £17 bn. or 13%.

The UK rebate however is deducted BEFORE the UK pays over one penny or cent (remember the side of the bus ignoring this?) so the actual gross UK payment is GBP 13bn. or about 10%.

For completeness, it would be fair to mention that the UK receives back £4bn. (eg agriculture, poorer regions, scientific research etc), leaving a net contribution of GBP 9bn.  


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: ghanimah on Monday, May 1, 2017, 13:50:04
The EU can do one.

They're showing themselves up for what they are.

Think we will end up just walking away.

And as for the divorce bill- quite how an organisation that has not had accounts audited and signed off for 20 years know the liability of a member state is beyond me- they're just trying it on as we pay 1/5 of the total budget

The EU is being entirely reasonable, they have their own concerns not least the issues of the Irish border which will undermine the integrity of the single market. Regarding the budget we have agreed to pay the costs that the EU is requesting.

This is not the EU's fault but our own. It seems to have escaped many in this country that the EU actually wants us gone and wants a relatively quick and smooth Brexit. To put it bluntly it's our own PM who is currently being delusional.



Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Berniman on Monday, May 1, 2017, 14:48:00
The French elections will have a big say on how the EU deals with the Brexit negotiations..


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Reg Smeeton on Monday, May 1, 2017, 14:53:19
The EU is being entirely reasonable, they have their own concerns not least the issues of the Irish border which will undermine the integrity of the single market. Regarding the budget we have agreed to pay the costs that the EU is requesting.

This is not the EU's fault but our own. It seems to have escaped many in this country that the EU actually wants us gone and wants a relatively quick and smooth Brexit. To put it bluntly it's our own PM who is currently being delusional.



The Mail who largely set the agenda for May, need to create the impression that this is a battle between Brittania and Johnny Foreigner... so the gullible are taken in.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: ghanimah on Monday, May 1, 2017, 15:00:58
The Mail who largely set the agenda for May, need to create the impression that this is a battle between Brittania and Johnny Foreigner... so the gullible are taken in.

Yes, there has always been the "plant the UK flag" on an EU story mentality from the Mail and indeed right across all newspapers. Westminster, political parties and the media have never understood the EU project which is why they are being caught out in trying to understand Brexit negotiations..


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Reg Smeeton on Monday, May 1, 2017, 15:04:45
Yes, there has always been the "plant the UK flag" on an EU story mentality from the Mail and indeed right across all newspapers. Westminster, political parties and the media have never understood the EU project which is why they are being caught out in trying to understand Brexit negotiations..

Best summed up by the quote from Rupert Murdoch.....

"When I go into Downing Street they do what I say; when I go to Brussels they take no notice."


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: moredonboy on Monday, May 1, 2017, 15:48:35
thought this might brighten up May Day!!!!!!!!!!!!
https://www.facebook.com/JaneyGodley/videos/10155380841194653/ :Ride On Fatbury's Lovestick:




Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: ghanimah on Monday, May 1, 2017, 15:49:58
Best summed up by the quote from Rupert Murdoch.....

"When I go into Downing Street they do what I say; when I go to Brussels they take no notice."

Murdoch is being disingenuous there. The EU is precisely the sort of organisation Murdoch loves. It's easily amiable to rich men lobbying the bureaucracy while it is immune from the ballot box - Branson loves it for the same reason, and so does Mandelson

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/what-did-lord-m-do-on-holiday-hung-out-with-tycoons-and-ran-britain-1769945.html

If nothing else Murdoch is a pragmatist he is only interested in selling papers, media and making money - which is why the English Sun supported Brexit, but the Murdoch owned Times and Scottish Sun did not.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: sonicyouth on Monday, May 1, 2017, 19:01:46
Corbyn posted a photo of his cat on his Instagram today, that's why I'm voting for him.

(his cat also looks like him)


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: hobodan on Monday, May 1, 2017, 22:15:53
The French elections will have a big say on how the EU deals with the Brexit negotiations..
Hopefully the French will have the fortitude to vote for LePen. It's the best option they have to repair France, and it will do us a big favour in Brexit negotiations.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: bamboonoshoe on Monday, May 1, 2017, 22:45:12
Hopefully the French will have the fortitude to vote for LePen. It's the best option they have to repair France, and it will do us a big favour in Brexit negotiations.

Wow, you didn't just say that did you? You're either a WUM or a little silly if you think Le Pen will repair France...however Le Pen is mightier than the sword...


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: hobodan on Tuesday, May 2, 2017, 07:26:21
And why is that exactly? I'm guessing you have bought into the left wing media BS that she is some sort of racist / xenophobe / islamaphobe blah blah.

You think this guy (Macron) is going to change anything that is going on in France? If you haven't done your homework, maybe his will help.....

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=8Jt6_A_CXwU


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: herthab on Tuesday, May 2, 2017, 09:35:17
And why is that exactly? I'm guessing you have bought into the left wing media BS that she is some sort of racist / xenophobe / islamaphobe blah blah.

You think this guy (Macron) is going to change anything that is going on in France? If you haven't done your homework, maybe his will help.....

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=8Jt6_A_CXwU

If you took some time to research The Front Nationale, you see that it is a racist organisation. The fact that she's trying to distance herself from them now is a good indicator that she knows this too.

A right wing nutjob in the Whitehouse, the probability of a right wing nutjob in 10 Downing Street and another one running France? Sounds great......

Where are the mainstream left wing media outlets you mentioned?


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: horlock07 on Tuesday, May 2, 2017, 09:38:45
And why is that exactly? I'm guessing you have bought into the left wing media BS that she is some sort of racist / xenophobe / islamaphobe blah blah.

You think this guy (Macron) is going to change anything that is going on in France? If you haven't done your homework, maybe his will help.....

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=8Jt6_A_CXwU

Mr Molyneux seems to know the 'truth' about a lot of things, I bet he also finishes posts on Forum with FACT!

Whilst there is a certain clarity with the French veering to the right reflecting whyat is happening inn the UK, I am not altogether sure how Le Penn will help the UK, whilst having another Putin Poodle on the doorstep is not going to be that helpful to anyone?


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Chubbs on Tuesday, May 2, 2017, 11:41:17
As you know i'm trying to take an interest in these elections and if there's one thing i hate when reading various party propaganda is when parties use others weakness to try to win votes as opposed to their own strengths.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Arriba on Tuesday, May 2, 2017, 11:44:12
On the news this morning was mentioned that 300 disabled people a day are going to court to prove their eligibility and fight for their benefits. This process is costing the British tax payer £1 million a week.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: horlock07 on Tuesday, May 2, 2017, 11:49:38
On the news this morning was mentioned that 300 disabled people a day are going to court to prove their eligibility and fight for their benefits. This process is costing the British tax payer £1 million a week.

Thats the price we pay for strong and stable leadership....


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: bamboonoshoe on Tuesday, May 2, 2017, 12:15:57
Quote
I'm guessing you have bought into the left wing media BS
Oh come on, left wing media bullsh*t, we all know that moist of the mainstream media has an erring to the right.

Hobodan. In my comment where did I even mention Macron was France's answer? I never even mentioned the guy. The situation in France is different because the real fact of the matter is many people want neither Macron or Le Pen. Many will simply refuse to vote (I don't necessarily agree with this stance) because politically and for some time now things in France have not gone the "French way". Mainly across their political spectrum the modern stance of an open country for all has wavered. Many french people are ashamed of how their state is behaving politically. Many are torn because they feel pressured to choose for fear if they don't then a Le Pen victory is imminent. If you know if the tiniest bit about the French voting directive a high concentration of the demographic is represented by who they fear. The nation deeply fears Le Pen.

If you actually bothered to research the relatively close confines of this forum (even this thread) you will see that I do not jump to erratic conclusions and you will also see that I don't act on impulse to mainstream media articles across any medium. I also don't react very positively to poorly put together youtube videos. However, I did ask you a question, possibly with some rhetorical notion but you did not answer all you did is post a "fact-based" video about Macron. Then decided to go on the defensive by falsely implying that I was a supporter of Macron, when I didn't even mention his name in my response.

As Chubbs rightly put (and also entering new territory of the political minefield)
Quote
if there's one thing i hate when reading various party propaganda is when parties use others weakness to try to win votes as opposed to their own strengths.
He summed up your responses perfectly.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Private Fraser on Tuesday, May 2, 2017, 12:18:54
Don't worry. Everything will be fine when Jeremy Corbyn and Diane Abbott are running things.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: jayohaitchenn on Tuesday, May 2, 2017, 12:20:17
On the news this morning was mentioned that 300 disabled people a day are going to court to prove their eligibility and fight for their benefits. This process is costing the British tax payer £1 million a week.

Widely known. We are literally paying the government to abuse disabled people.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/dwp-fit-to-work-assessments-cost-more-than-they-save-report-reveals-a6801636.html


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: bamboonoshoe on Tuesday, May 2, 2017, 12:21:28
Don't worry. Everything will be fine when Jeremy Corbyn and Diane Abbott are running things.

It's not perfect but it's marginally better than a May/Hunt/Boris cabinet surely?  ;)  :cry: :cry: :cry:


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Berniman on Tuesday, May 2, 2017, 12:36:10
All parties just seem to be doing a great job of proving that there really is no great choice at the moment.  I don't trust any of these muppets to run our country..

Tories sniping at Corbyn to win votes, Labour providing lots of ammunition to make it easy for the Tories to snipe..  what a great choice we have.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: RedRag on Tuesday, May 2, 2017, 12:41:07
And why is that exactly? I'm guessing you have bought into the left wing media BS that she is some sort of racist / xenophobe / islamaphobe blah blah.

You think this guy (Macron) is going to change anything that is going on in France? If you haven't done your homework, maybe his will help.....

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=8Jt6_A_CXwU
:Ride On Fatbury's Lovestick: ten out of ten for effort on the trolling and for introducing probably most of the TEF to nutjob Mr Stefan Molyneux.

Marine, to be fair, is less racist than her father Jean-Marie Le Pen who described the holocaust as a detail of second world war history and also less racist than her niece Marion Marechal-LePen but to suggest that it is BS that she is Islamophobic is absurd - she has been quite specific on that drawing parallels between the German occupation of France in WW2 and the manifestations of Islamic culture in France today.  She is economically a Protectionist.

To the project-fear Brexiteers, who dream of the fall rather than reform of the Euro and indeed the descent into chaos of the EU, and who would see this as some sort of vindication, I can see that a Le Pen victory may be encouraging.  Note however that she has however rowed back somewhat, in round two of the election, on France actually leaving the euro and on the holding of an EU referendum.

For the non-doctrinaire Brexiteers and indeed non-doctrinaire Remainers, looking now for a positive relationship between a strong, independent UK and a strong, reforming EU in areas of economics, science, defence, security and shared values, then Le Pen would be bad news (assuming racism is not yet at least a shared value).

Not sure Macron will not be inheriting more to bite off than he can chew but his election would be beneficial for the UK in my opinion and "no-brainer" preferable to the alternative.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: horlock07 on Tuesday, May 2, 2017, 13:11:34
Don't worry. Everything will be fine when Jeremy Corbyn and Diane Abbott are running things.

Politician in getting the figures wrong shocker, whilst when you actually look at the breakdown of figures in the Labour press release they add up - strangely that bit is getting nearly zero reporting as is the massive drop in Officers since 2009 (just trying to recall who was the Home Sec in the majority of that period?).

I have no time for Diane Abbott, however if this entire campaign is going to centre on playing the man (or woman) rather than analysis of the policies (will be hard for the Tories as they don't appear to have any at the moment) its going to get ridiculous, the fact that this is the lead story on the BBC website, means that either its a bloody dull day or their reporting is somewhat more critical of certain parties than others?

Meanwhile in Cornwall the media are locked in rooms and banned from filming the PM or her answering any questions, should that possibly not be the news story of the day!

Here http://www.cornwalllive.com/prime-minister-theresa-may-visits-cornwall-ahead-of-general-election/story-30306323-detail/story.html


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: RobertT on Tuesday, May 2, 2017, 13:12:36
Yeesh, LePen seems to have done a decent PR job in the last couple of years if people think she isn't racist.  You can agree or disagree on some of the policies, but be sure she is a Leader of the National Front for a reason.  This nice shiny new Populist stuff is just convenient because it takes in some of the NF ideals, but it doesn't stop them being the French BNP.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: horlock07 on Tuesday, May 2, 2017, 13:15:30
Yeesh, LePen seems to have done a decent PR job in the last couple of years if people think she isn't racist.  You can agree or disagree on some of the policies, but be sure she is a Leader of the National Front for a reason.  This nice shiny new Populist stuff is just convenient because it takes in some of the NF ideals, but it doesn't stop them being the French BNP.

I don't think she is the leader presently, she seems to have taken the lead of that Mr Farage by resigning when its gets a bit warm, sure she will be back in charge soon.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: hobodan on Tuesday, May 2, 2017, 21:23:57
Stefan speaks a lot of sense. Please dispute what you don't like about any of his opinions? Feel free to ridicule any of his points on Macron?  I'm guessing you are probably sat in your comfy chair lapping up 'the young Turks' or some left wing bullshit 😂

Macron would be a disaster for France, he only brings more of the same which has gotten France into such a mess. It's ironic that there is next to NO mainstream media reports of the fascist communists rioting in France with their radical Islamist counterparts (yes, fascists lefties! Who'd have though!), yet you can find footage and on the ground evidence all over social media.
If you think Macron will change France you are the nutjob, but maybe extreme lefties do not want to change the 'diversity' experiment that has left Paris in such a dump from excessive Islamic immigration?
If you take the time to dig into the facts and not swallow the BS that the mainstream media push, you will be surprised how bad Paris is ATM. And let's not mention Sweden.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: RobertT on Tuesday, May 2, 2017, 21:55:59
I have a sneaky suspicion that you might visit Breitbart.com or maybe infowars?

LePen is racist FACT.

No idea on Macron, wasn't debating his abilities, good or bad.

Left wing ideologues can be just as "fascist" (in the way you are using the term), as good old extreme right wingers.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: bamboonoshoe on Tuesday, May 2, 2017, 22:02:18
Stefan speaks a lot of sense. Please dispute what you don't like about any of his opinions? Feel free to ridicule any of his points on Macron?  I'm guessing you are probably sat in your comfy chair lapping up 'the young Turks' or some left wing bullshit 😂

Macron would be a disaster for France, he only brings more of the same which has gotten France into such a mess. It's ironic that there is next to NO mainstream media reports of the fascist communists rioting in France with their radical Islamist counterparts (yes, fascists lefties! Who'd have though!), yet you can find footage and on the ground evidence all over social media.
If you think Macron will change France you are the nutjob, but maybe extreme lefties do not want to change the 'diversity' experiment that has left Paris in such a dump from excessive Islamic immigration?
If you take the time to dig into the facts and not swallow the BS that the mainstream media push, you will be surprised how bad Paris is ATM. And let's not mention Sweden.

I have not once mentioned that Macron would be brilliant for France!

and ICYMI

Oh come on, left wing media bullsh*t, we all know that most of the mainstream media has an erring to the right.

Hobodan. In my comment where did I even mention Macron was France's answer? I never even mentioned the guy. The situation in France is different because the real fact of the matter is many people want neither Macron or Le Pen. Many will simply refuse to vote (I don't necessarily agree with this stance) because politically and for some time now things in France have not gone the "French way". Mainly across their political spectrum the modern stance of an open country for all has wavered. Many french people are ashamed of how their state is behaving politically. Many are torn because they feel pressured to choose for fear if they don't then a Le Pen victory is imminent. If you know if the tiniest bit about the French voting directive a high concentration of the demographic is represented by who they fear. The nation deeply fears Le Pen.

If you actually bothered to research the relatively close confines of this forum (even this thread) you will see that I do not jump to erratic conclusions and you will also see that I don't act on impulse to mainstream media articles across any medium. I also don't react very positively to poorly put together youtube videos. However, I did ask you a question, possibly with some rhetorical notion but you did not answer all you did is post a "fact-based" video about Macron. Then decided to go on the defensive by falsely implying that I was a supporter of Macron, when I didn't even mention his name in my response.

As Chubbs rightly put (and also entering new territory of the political minefield)  He summed up your responses perfectly.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: hobodan on Tuesday, May 2, 2017, 22:18:43
I have a sneaky suspicion that you might visit Breitbart.com or maybe infowars?

LePen is racist FACT.

No idea on Macron, wasn't debating his abilities, good or bad.

Left wing ideologues can be just as "fascist" (in the way you are using the term), as good old extreme right wingers.

Alex Jones? 😂 Is without question a nutjob. Not familiar with Breitbart. Your accusation of LePen being a 'racist' is nothing more than expected of the typical lefty histeria. Your forgot 'xenophobe' and 'islamaphobe', more buzzwords slung around by lefties when they fail to argue any point. Please show me why LePen is a racist as you say she is?


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: ron dodgers on Wednesday, May 3, 2017, 00:25:01
I bet you 50 euros she's got a smelly cunt


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: RobertT on Wednesday, May 3, 2017, 01:34:45
Would LePen have been as outraged by a a bunch of white Christians having a prayer session in a local park?  Her reference to an occupation makes it clear to me that underlying her thoughts are worries about people who look and seem different, hence my FACT after the statement, suggesting in TEF fashion that my opinion is more worthy 😏.

I am neither left nor right and this recent move in politics that you have to be an extreme of either worries me.  Why can't people just have a range of views on things in the world? 

BTW, outside of the immigration stuff, LePen would be bordering on old skool Socialism, pretty far left.

Finally, I think we need further research on the bet above.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Red Frog on Wednesday, May 3, 2017, 13:36:01
Stefan speaks a lot of sense. Please dispute what you don't like about any of his opinions? Feel free to ridicule any of his points on Macron?  I'm guessing you are probably sat in your comfy chair lapping up 'the young Turks' or some left wing bullshit 😂

Macron would be a disaster for France, he only brings more of the same which has gotten France into such a mess. It's ironic that there is next to NO mainstream media reports of the fascist communists rioting in France with their radical Islamist counterparts (yes, fascists lefties! Who'd have though!), yet you can find footage and on the ground evidence all over social media.
If you think Macron will change France you are the nutjob, but maybe extreme lefties do not want to change the 'diversity' experiment that has left Paris in such a dump from excessive Islamic immigration?
If you take the time to dig into the facts and not swallow the BS that the mainstream media push, you will be surprised how bad Paris is ATM. And let's not mention Sweden.

How well do you know France and French politics hobodan? How recently have you been in Paris?

Genuine questions. I'm trying to work out your qualifications for what you say.

Is there anything you want to ask me?


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Chubbs on Wednesday, May 3, 2017, 14:28:01
How well do you know France and French politics hobodan? How recently have you been in Paris?

Genuine questions. I'm trying to work out your qualifications for what you say.

Is there anything you want to ask me?

I was in Paris last month and thinking back i didn't really notice an excessive number of Islamic Immigrants. Romany gypsies on the other hand.....


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Berniman on Wednesday, May 3, 2017, 14:45:27
I was in Paris last month and thinking back i didn't really notice an excessive number of Islamic Immigrants. Romany gypsies on the other hand.....

I was there a few months ago and I did, especially around the city centre and in the side streets around Gare Du Nord.  Compared to time previous that I went to Paris I saw a huge difference, I didn't feel entirely safe last time around and if I would have been with my family I would have been on Meerkat alert.  Based on my last experience I am not in a hurry to go back..

This doesn't mean that agree with the political discussion about this, I just wanted to point out my observations compared to yours.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Chubbs on Wednesday, May 3, 2017, 14:59:01
I was there a few months ago and I did, especially around the city centre and in the side streets around Gare Du Nord.  Compared to time previous that I went to Paris I saw a huge difference, I didn't feel entirely safe last time around and if I would have been with my family I would have been on Meerkat alert.  Based on my last experience I am not in a hurry to go back..

This doesn't mean that agree with the political discussion about this, I just wanted to point out my observations compared to yours.

In all honesty i felt less safe in Munich than i did in Paris.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: bamboonoshoe on Wednesday, May 3, 2017, 20:34:22
This is just a bit of fun. Theresa May bingo, if you must. :)

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=1385483308197167&id=665729536839218


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Bogus Dave on Thursday, May 4, 2017, 07:42:02
Local elections today, but I didn't receive a polling card?? I assumed I was registered (have voted in all local, general and referendums since I moved here three years ago).

Live in Moredon, assumed I'd have been able to vote on parishes??


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Reg Smeeton on Thursday, May 4, 2017, 07:52:13
Local elections today, but I didn't receive a polling card?? I assumed I was registered (have voted in all local, general and referendums since I moved here three years ago).

Live in Moredon, assumed I'd have been able to vote on parishes??

You can vote without a card. It's entirely possible that SBC have fucked up your registation as it seems to be you need to register annually.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Batch on Thursday, May 4, 2017, 08:38:12
Local elections today, but I didn't receive a polling card?? I assumed I was registered (have voted in all local, general and referendums since I moved here three years ago).

Live in Moredon, assumed I'd have been able to vote on parishes??

I assumed we didn't have a vote (same ward), existing Parish so no vote?


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Bogus Dave on Thursday, May 4, 2017, 08:39:46
Nah, turns out there's only one power hungry sad bastard person standing for one seat in our ward, so we don't get a vote


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Nemo on Thursday, May 4, 2017, 08:42:58
Nah, turns out there's only one power hungry sad bastard person standing for one seat in our ward, so we don't get a vote

Where's Re-open Nominations gone when you need them eh?


Meanwhile, this made me smile on Twitter. It's from Private Eye, obviously: (https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C--VU4BWsAEUxxK.jpg)


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Arriba on Thursday, May 4, 2017, 11:47:26
I had a total of 3 votes available to me today. I used 2 of them. Was going to spoil it but need to do my bit to try to keep the Tories out.
Very quiet so expecting a poor turn out


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Ginginho on Thursday, May 4, 2017, 11:59:35
I had a total of 3 votes available to me today. I used 2 of them. Was going to spoil it but need to do my bit to try to keep the Tories out.
Very quiet so expecting a poor turn out

Either that or like me some people voted by post.
I voted for two also, Labour and Lib Dems, for the same reason.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Reg Smeeton on Thursday, May 4, 2017, 12:19:53
 For Swindon residents... the Tory parish scam is a con of the very first order. 

By putting up candidiates both Labour and LibDems acquiesce in it.... whereas what they should be doing is looking at ways of challenging its legality.



Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: ghanimah on Thursday, May 4, 2017, 12:24:41
Politician in getting the figures wrong shocker, whilst when you actually look at the breakdown of figures in the Labour press release they add up - strangely that bit is getting nearly zero reporting as is the massive drop in Officers since 2009 (just trying to recall who was the Home Sec in the majority of that period?).



It's reasonable to expect a shadow minister of a major office of state to be on top of her brief for an interview during a general election, especially as the Home Office is notorious for being difficult to run - it is dubbed "the graveyard of ministers". That Abbott was clearly out of her depth is not good enough.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: horlock07 on Thursday, May 4, 2017, 12:58:05
It's reasonable to expect a shadow minister of a major office of state to be on top of her brief for an interview during a general election, especially as the Home Office is notorious for being difficult to run - it is dubbed "the graveyard of ministers". That Abbott was clearly out of her depth is not good enough.

Quite so, however in determining this one also has to compare her with the present incumbent who is equally inept and lacking in briefing (see her wonderful performance regarding IT matters and encryption - where she seemed to think that just taking a flyer on random IT terms would suffice - plus Ms Abbott does not share Ms Rudd's very mucky business history).

One could also conclude that Mrs May is equally grossly out of her depth as evidenced by her refusal to speak to any members of the public and only journalists in a sterile (and often locked) environment, setting aside her obvious complete lack of briefing and understanding of the Brexit process?

Ultimately Abbott has only got promoted as she is a loyal supporter of the leader, however the manner in which the media are just concentrating on these peripheral issues and not challenging the government on their lack of a campaign bar 'vote for us we are not quite as shit as they are' (with the two points in their poster both being blatant spin/lies) and the chaotic state of the public finances is giving the government (which already has a free shot) an incredibly easy ride. 


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: ghanimah on Thursday, May 4, 2017, 13:42:04


One could also conclude that Mrs May is equally grossly out of her depth as evidenced by her refusal to speak to any members of the public and only journalists in a sterile (and often locked) environment, setting aside her obvious complete lack of briefing and understanding of the Brexit process?



I completely agree that Mrs May is out of depth regarding Brexit, her current actions worry me enormously as does the lack of effective opposition to hold her to account. We can conclude that Labour's inept abilities is made clear by May not even bothering to campaign properly - she doesn't need to.

The media - "the fourth estate" - has long abrogated its duty to hold the powerful to account, on both sides. This is after all the same media that right across the board reported that Cameron "vetoed an EU treaty" in 2011 when he clearly didn't. But that fiction is now part of historical record.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: mystical_goat on Thursday, May 4, 2017, 14:39:21
I would like to see David Milliband return to Labour and politics, he has unfinished business after his dork brother was chosen instead of him. He spoke and came across so much better that it should never have been a choice, must have been monetary or in-politics I guess?

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/may/04/im-an-ex-politician-david-miliband-dampens-talk-of-return

To say the least, I wish Tony Blair would be more quiet.

I recall the Millibands were decided by an in-party vote maybe, of more senior officials or MPs? Unlike Corbyn with the wider, almost public, vote. If that was the case then the same senior members now against Corbyn are probably also the fools who chose Ed over Dave.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Reg Smeeton on Thursday, May 4, 2017, 15:05:59
I would like to see David Milliband return to Labour and politics, he has unfinished business after his dork brother was chosen instead of him. He spoke and came across so much better that it should never have been a choice, must have been monetary or in-politics I guess?

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/may/04/im-an-ex-politician-david-miliband-dampens-talk-of-return

To say the least, I wish Tony Blair would be more quiet.

I recall the Millibands were decided by an in-party vote maybe, of more senior officials or MPs? Unlike Corbyn with the wider, almost public, vote. If that was the case then the same senior members now against Corbyn are probably also the fools who chose Ed over Dave.

Ed had the backing of the unions...

Blair is entitled to his say... he did win 3 elections, for which I'm grateful, certainly my life changed for the better in those Labour years.  OK he fucked up over Iraq, but I guess that is the fate of all long serving leaders.

It's just about 20 years to the day, that the first of those elections was won. What a great night in the pub...drinking right the way through, as a succession of loathed Tories bit the dust.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: pauld on Thursday, May 4, 2017, 15:24:13
I would like to see David Milliband return to Labour and politics, he has unfinished business after his dork brother was chosen instead of him. He spoke and came across so much better that it should never have been a choice, must have been monetary or in-politics I guess?

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/may/04/im-an-ex-politician-david-miliband-dampens-talk-of-return

To say the least, I wish Tony Blair would be more quiet.

I recall the Millibands were decided by an in-party vote maybe, of more senior officials or MPs? Unlike Corbyn with the wider, almost public, vote. If that was the case then the same senior members now against Corbyn are probably also the fools who chose Ed over Dave.
David was the Blairite continuity candidate, Ed was seen as the left-wing choice. Fairly sure from what you've said you don't want David back.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: pauld on Thursday, May 4, 2017, 15:26:16
Blair is entitled to his say... he did win 3 elections, for which I'm grateful, certainly my life changed for the better in those Labour years.  OK he fucked up over Iraq, but I guess that is the fate of all long serving leaders.
Well, it is the fate of the ones that start illegal wars which kill hundreds of thousands and continue to cause chaos and instability worldwide to this day, yes. Although, that's pretty much just Blair.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: pauld on Thursday, May 4, 2017, 15:41:52
For Swindon residents... the Tory parish scam is a con of the very first order. 

By putting up candidiates both Labour and LibDems acquiesce in it.... whereas what they should be doing is looking at ways of challenging its legality.
Spot on Reg. I'm with arriba, in that I'm tempted to spoil my ballot by writing what a con the whole thing is on it. But
a) it's a bit pointless
b) that would just reward the scammers by removing a potential vote against them
Appalling piece of gerrymandering.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Reg Smeeton on Thursday, May 4, 2017, 15:44:02
Spot on Reg. I'm with arriba, in that I'm tempted to spoil my ballot by writing what a con the whole thing is on it. But
a) it's a bit pointless
b) that would just reward the scammers by removing a potential vote against them
Appalling piece of gerrymandering.

My answer was to vote for an independent who drinks in my local. 5 times  :)


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Nemo on Friday, May 5, 2017, 07:43:55
Hazy of course to suggest that local election results can be read into too far, but the overnight results are looking increasingly like a Tory landslide. UKIP vote collapsing to them especially is a big factor, counterintuitively the left probably need Nuttall's mob to hold their own, but it's not looking like the polling companies are collectively underplaying Labour's hand at the moment (nor, for the sake of balance, are the Lib Dems making the progress they'd have hoped for).

Overall, it's beginning to look like the TEF may not be a representative sample of the electorate. Who'd have thought it?


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: horlock07 on Friday, May 5, 2017, 09:16:54
The UKIP thing is entirely understandable, although I don't buy the whole argument being peddled by many Tories that their point has vanished.

Its more the case that the Tories have veered so far right that UKIP voters are returning to the fold as  May have brought the more extreme policies of UKIP into the main stream, the speech about the EU in the week was exactly what Farage has been saying whilst her conference speech was probably even more right wing that Farage would have dared. 


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Samdy Gray on Friday, May 5, 2017, 09:17:11
The Tories did better than I expected. 9/3 majority in West Swindon, which I suppose shouldn't be all that much of a surprise given the demographic, but I expected Labour to do better.

The main vote winner in my ward was a UKIP-turned-Tory flipper who obviously benefited from swapping his purple rosette for a blue one.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Chubbs on Friday, May 5, 2017, 10:00:49
In Old Town it was 3 seats to Labour and 1 to Conservatives. Was within 7 votes to being all 4 seats to Labour. 


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: pauld on Friday, May 5, 2017, 11:06:13
The UKIP thing is entirely understandable, although I don't buy the whole argument being peddled by many Tories that their point has vanished.

Its more the case that the Tories have veered so far right that UKIP voters are returning to the fold as  May have brought the more extreme policies of UKIP into the main stream, the speech about the EU in the week was exactly what Farage has been saying whilst her conference speech was probably even more right wing that Farage would have dared. 
Same as Thatcher did to the NF in 79, destroyed their electoral base by coopting their language, if not (thankfully) all their policies. Although I agree May has gone further in terms of adoption of the extreme policies, not sure she's gone further than Farage, still think we're a way off a Tory leader openly backing Marine Le Pen.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Power to people on Friday, May 5, 2017, 13:05:07
By the sounds of it as well these new parish councils in Swindon had had majority of existing Councillors voted onto them so guess that means that will help SBC in the future push other things their way


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Reg Smeeton on Friday, May 5, 2017, 13:09:48
By the sounds of it as well these new parish councils in Swindon had had majority of existing Councillors voted onto them so guess that means that will help SBC in the future push other things their way

A complete farce... just a way of bumping up the Council Tax, bypassing the law of the land. 


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Arriba on Friday, May 5, 2017, 13:46:58
People electing Nick Martin locally says it all about people nowadays.
Labour are going to get an almighty pasting next month. That cunt Tomlinson will probably increase his majority too.  :crash:


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Chubbs on Friday, May 5, 2017, 14:24:15
People electing Nick Martin locally says it all about people nowadays.
Labour are going to get an almighty pasting next month. That cunt Tomlinson will probably increase his majority too.  :crash:
Whilst you're probably right, remember when the whole world was saying Trump had no chance.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: LucienSanchez on Friday, May 5, 2017, 15:14:32
People electing Nick Martin locally says it all about people nowadays.
Labour are going to get an almighty pasting next month. That cunt Tomlinson will probably increase his majority too.  :crash:

Cannot stand Martin, and now his wife is in on it too.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Reg Smeeton on Friday, May 5, 2017, 15:20:36
Cannot stand Martin, and now his wife is in on it too.

I'd imagine there'll be a whole new heap of expenses to claim....


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: jayohaitchenn on Friday, May 5, 2017, 15:23:28
People electing Nick Martin locally says it all about people nowadays.
Labour are going to get an almighty pasting next month. That cunt Tomlinson will probably increase his majority too.  :crash:

If the locals are any indication then Labour are fucked. Gutted.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Reg Smeeton on Friday, May 5, 2017, 15:39:06
If the locals are any indication then Labour are fucked. Gutted.

In many ways this isn't a bad election to lose.

The Tories are going to have to deliver a Brexit, which doesn't take the economy down the pan... the evidence so far suggests they haven't much of a clue how to do it.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: jayohaitchenn on Friday, May 5, 2017, 16:25:39
5 more years of Tory rule... my kid starts school in 3. I'm likely to need a hospital between now and then.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Reg Smeeton on Friday, May 5, 2017, 16:44:18
5 more years of Tory rule... my kid starts school in 3. I'm likely to need a hospital between now and then.

I know a good few mostly young people, but not exclusively, who decided to move to the continent after last summer's referendum. Admittedly they more or less have no obligations of family, or are old enough to heve to discharged them.

Personally I've always thought the patriotic thing to do is to not let the buggers grind you down....


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Chubbs on Friday, May 5, 2017, 16:56:30
I know a good few mostly young people, but not exclusively, who decided to move to the continent after last summer's referendum. Admittedly they more or less have no obligations of family, or are old enough to heve to discharged them.

Personally I've always thought the patriotic thing to do is to not let the buggers grind you down....

Poland will sort you out with cheap private healthcare....


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: pauld on Friday, May 5, 2017, 17:22:58
Cannot stand Martin, and now his wife is in on it too.
That's not a new thing, she's been a councillor for 20+ years IIRC


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Reg Smeeton on Friday, May 5, 2017, 17:39:59
Poland will sort you out with cheap private healthcare....

I'm not quite old enough to remember pre NHS days, but certainly my parents used to talk about it

What I do recall is in the 50's, it was still a pretty primitive set up, by today's standards.

I'd imagine the Tories will start to look at the need for private healthcare insurance, for all..... not least because one of the costs of Brexit will be the need to do deals with Trump, and US insurers are very keen on the UK market.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Samdy Gray on Friday, May 5, 2017, 19:03:28
I'm not quite old enough to remember pre NHS days

(http://i.imgur.com/Ufbr5ej.gif)


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Saxondale on Friday, May 5, 2017, 19:25:19
My mum won as an Independent in Chippenham.

Ill be honest I tend to think this local bollocks should be divorced from parties politics.  It should be about whats good for the community not parroting anything about national politics.



Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: pauld on Friday, May 5, 2017, 19:42:58
My mum won as an Independent in Chippenham.

Ill be honest I tend to think this local bollocks should be divorced from parties politics.  It should be about whats good for the community not parroting anything about national politics.
Damn right. And congratulations to your Mum, need more indies in local politics


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Dr Pierre Chang on Friday, May 5, 2017, 19:55:01
Quite frankly, Labour are a laughing stock and will continue to be so long as Corbyn remains at the helm.

It's a shame there is no credible alternative to the tories so we are stuck with them for the foreseeable  :no:


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Flashheart on Friday, May 5, 2017, 19:59:52
Quite frankly, Labour are a laughing stock and will continue to be so long as Corbyn remains at the helm.

It's a shame there is no credible alternative to the tories so we are stuck with them for the foreseeable  :no:

I bet that's music to the ears to labour supporters.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Saxondale on Friday, May 5, 2017, 20:29:18
Damn right. And congratulations to your Mum, need more indies in local politics

5 indies in 'Nam now.  I think they hold the casting vote.


Title: Re: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: horlock07 on Saturday, May 6, 2017, 14:59:02
Quite frankly, Labour are a laughing stock and will continue to be so long as Corbyn remains at the helm.

It's a shame there is no credible alternative to the tories so we are stuck with them for the foreseeable  :no:
Time to pile your cash on Corbyn winning in June then?


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Posh Red on Saturday, May 6, 2017, 16:28:37
Time to pile your cash on Corbyn winning in June then?

I'm not sure even Chang can get this one wrong. Unless the news leaks that May eats babies for breakfast


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Batch on Saturday, May 6, 2017, 16:52:34
even then it would be close


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Johnny Reeves on Saturday, May 6, 2017, 22:05:07
Things change, people change, hairstyles change, interest rates fluctuate.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: bamboonoshoe on Saturday, May 6, 2017, 23:25:36
Things change, people change, hairstyles change, interest rates fluctuate.

...and Theresa May continues to say..."Strong & stable government."


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: jayohaitchenn on Sunday, May 7, 2017, 14:42:27
Quite frankly, Labour are a laughing stock and will continue to be so long as Corbyn remains at the helm.

It's a shame there is no credible alternative to the tories so we are stuck with them for the foreseeable  :no:

Shithot!! I thought we were dead and buried :)


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Reg Smeeton on Sunday, May 7, 2017, 15:39:53
 Things must be Ok, as the number of billionaires in the Uk has grown from 21, 15 years ago to 134.

Proof positive that money trickles up from the poor to the rich under the Tories.

But well done to Calvin Harris....don't suppose many who saw him at Lydiard 8 years ago now, would have thought he'd end up in such elevated company.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p9UbVdBbMFA


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Chubbs on Tuesday, May 9, 2017, 09:02:42
I'm not sure even Chang can get this one wrong. Unless the news leaks that May eats babies for breakfast
Who doesnt


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: RedRag on Tuesday, May 9, 2017, 14:00:48
Things must be Ok, as the number of billionaires in the Uk has grown from 21, 15 years ago to 134.

Proof positive that money trickles up from the poor to the rich under the Tories.
Counting Blair and Brown as honorary Tories I see  ;)


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: StfcRusty on Tuesday, May 9, 2017, 14:01:42
Nice bit of propaganda on the energy cap. Actually made front page today. Same policy made headlines in 2013 ... but with a slightly different spin on things.

Labour have no chance for various reasons, one of which is the strength of the propaganda against them / in favour of the Tories.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: StfcRusty on Tuesday, May 9, 2017, 14:03:24
And in 2013 ->


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: pauld on Tuesday, May 9, 2017, 14:05:32
Looking forward to Cameron accusing May of "wanting to live in a Marxist universe" :)


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: pauld on Tuesday, May 9, 2017, 14:08:39
Labour have no chance for various reasons, one of which is the strength of the propaganda against them / in favour of the Tories.
No propaganda needed when Labour leadership are busy focusing on the real enemy in this election - their own members and activists, trying to get rid of one of the most despised members of the government

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/may/09/labour-expels-south-west-surrey-members-attempt-unseat-jeremy-hunt


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: ron dodgers on Tuesday, May 9, 2017, 15:17:20
they'll get reinstated on appeal, unless of course they have broken the rules.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: pauld on Tuesday, May 9, 2017, 15:18:39
they'll get reinstated on appeal, unless of course they have broken the rules.
They have broken the rules. Bloody stupid to expel them for trying to unseat the Minister for Rhyming Slang, though.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: ghanimah on Wednesday, May 10, 2017, 14:02:00


Labour have no chance for various reasons, one of which is the strength of the propaganda against them / in favour of the Tories.

Labour have tended to blame the media for their failings, it's the political equivalent of the Tories in the past who claimed "we're not getting our message across" as the excuse for losing. Nope, the message has come across loud and clear and the electorate don't like it. Thus it's a patronising view to take regarding the voters if nothing else.

Labour are going to lose heavily (barring any unforeseen circumstances) because they have chosen an inept Marxist clown to represent them in a GE. No amount of media coverage positive or otherwise is going to change that.



Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Reg Smeeton on Wednesday, May 10, 2017, 16:44:34
Labour have tended to blame the media for their failings, it's the political equivalent of the Tories in the past who claimed "we're not getting our message across" as the excuse for losing. Nope, the message has come across loud and clear and the electorate don't like it. Thus it's a patronising view to take regarding the voters if nothing else.

Labour are going to lose heavily (barring any unforeseen circumstances) because they have chosen an inept Marxist clown to represent them in a GE. No amount of media coverage positive or otherwise is going to change that.



A lot of evidence suggests that many people quite like policies like renationalising the railways...rent capping for private landlords, making sure the corporate sector pays its fair share of tax.

Even the Tories have lifted Milliband's thing on checking power companies for over charging.

However Corbyn and Labour fucked up badly over Europe... on such decisions are elections are won and lost.  

People who voted for Brexit want to believe the lies of the Tory right...therefore will give them a chance to deliver.

Labour should have followed the 1974 manifesto pledge, to leave the Common Market...unless there were significant reforms and hold a referendum on the outcome.



Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Chubbs on Thursday, May 11, 2017, 09:48:36
For those interested here's a run down of Labours leaked draft manifesto.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2017-39879113

The question on everyone mind is the same. How will all this be funded. I don't believe for 1 second this can all be funded by the tax increase on the 5% highest earners.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: LucienSanchez on Thursday, May 11, 2017, 10:27:07
Increase, not decrease, in corporation tax will help


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Reg Smeeton on Thursday, May 11, 2017, 10:49:41
For those interested here's a run down of Labours leaked draft manifesto.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2017-39879113

The question on everyone mind is the same. How will all this be funded. I don't believe for 1 second this can all be funded by the tax increase on the 5% highest earners.

There are many ways of raising extra funds, as LS mentions, even keeping Corporation Tax at its present level would help, not raising inheritance tax to a mill, rather than its present 300K or so.

Tightening up of rules on inheritance tax, whereby the Grosvenor Estate, can be left a son in a form of a Trust, and so be completely exempt, would help.

The Tory right now in government pointed out that £350 mill a week could be spent on the NHS, now we are leaving the EU.



Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: pauld on Thursday, May 11, 2017, 10:52:07
Increase, not decrease, in corporation tax will help
That would greatly eclipse the top 5% thing, it's just that the top 5% is what the media are focusing on because:
a) It makes a better headline (bash the rich and all that)
b) It helps make their pre-determined case that this is silly and unrealistic, instead of actually analysing whether it might be.
Actually collecting all the tax due would help too.
And yes I'm also aware that there's a danger that if the corporation tax is too punitive, then it may be a case of diminishing returns. But given that some of the corporations most likely to be able to jump territories are also the ones that are most active at not paying any tax here anyway, that's probably a moot point.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Simon Pieman on Thursday, May 11, 2017, 11:00:15
Corporation Tax receipts are at a record high so the situation is improving. Obviously a number of factors but shows that concentrating on things other than the rate of tax can make a massive difference.

Source: https://www.ft.com/content/ca3e5bd2-2a7e-11e7-9ec8-168383da43b7

Removing many of the reliefs would simplify our tax system and generate more tax revenues that simply increasing percentages in many cases


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Richhants on Thursday, May 11, 2017, 14:48:45
Conservative.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Sir Cliff Pipehard on Friday, May 12, 2017, 09:17:26

The irony of the Tory "Strong and stable" message is that Theresa May looks weak and unstable.

She looks like a rabbit in the headlights when she isn't just reading a script she's been given.

She looks totally out of her depth,that whole One show nonsense with her twatty husband was absolutely cringeworthy.
 She has to be protected from actually meeting anyone who might ask her a question she's not prepared for.

She reminds me of the teacher at school who was easy to wind up and bring to tears and was always having time off with a nervous breakdown.

 


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: herthab on Friday, May 12, 2017, 09:29:48
Conservative.

Shittest. First. Post. Ever.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: herthab on Friday, May 12, 2017, 09:31:08
The irony of the Tory "Strong and stable" message is that Theresa May looks weak and unstable.

She looks like a rabbit in the headlights when she isn't just reading a script she's been given.

She looks totally out of her depth,that whole One show nonsense with her twatty husband was absolutely cringeworthy.
 She has to be protected from actually meeting anyone who might ask her a question she's not prepared for.

She reminds me of the teacher at school who was easy to wind up and bring to tears and was always having time off with a nervous breakdown.

 

She's a cunt. And not a nice, jokey, cunt. A horrible, poisonous one.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Berniman on Friday, May 12, 2017, 09:50:03
Did you get hurt or violated by a conservative voter in a previous life?  You post very aggressive when people post anything pro conservative..


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: herthab on Friday, May 12, 2017, 09:57:29
Did you get hurt or violated by a conservative voter in a previous life?  You post very aggressive when people post anything pro conservative..

I don't think any of my posts are aggressive toward other posters? If you mean my posts are aggressively against the tories, you're right. I'm puzzled how people can have so many blind spots when it comes to what they're doing.

By the way, I would've responded to Richants in the same way if they had posted 'Labour', or 'Lib Dem'.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Sir Cliff Pipehard on Friday, May 12, 2017, 10:02:59
She's a cunt. And not a nice, jokey, cunt. A horrible, poisonous one.

Thatcher was a horrible poisonous cunt,May is more of an insipid cunt.

But definitely a cunt...


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Sir Cliff Pipehard on Friday, May 12, 2017, 10:05:28
Did you get hurt or violated by a conservative voter in a previous life?  You post very aggressive when people post anything pro conservative..

When viewed in the context of what the Tories are doing to this country,i'd say his posts show remarkable restraint.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: herthab on Friday, May 12, 2017, 10:05:49
Thatcher was a horrible poisonous cunt,May is more of an insipid cunt.

But definitely a cunt...

Look at her eyes. It's all in her eyes....


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Sir Cliff Pipehard on Friday, May 12, 2017, 10:08:34
Look at her eyes. It's all in her eyes....

You're a braver man than me ...  :)


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Berniman on Friday, May 12, 2017, 11:21:51
I don't think any of my posts are aggressive toward other posters? If you mean my posts are aggressively against the tories, you're right. I'm puzzled how people can have so many blind spots when it comes to what they're doing.

By the way, I would've responded to Richants in the same way if they had posted 'Labour', or 'Lib Dem'.

Yeah, not towards other posters just generally :D  It wasn't a dig btw.  I have still yet to be persuaded which way I am going to vote, unfortunately I don't think there is a good option this time around, which is exactly why May has called the GE now.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Arriba on Friday, May 12, 2017, 12:28:51
The irony of the Tory "Strong and stable" message is that Theresa May looks weak and unstable.

She looks like a rabbit in the headlights when she isn't just reading a script she's been given.

She looks totally out of her depth,that whole One show nonsense with her twatty husband was absolutely cringeworthy.
 She has to be protected from actually meeting anyone who might ask her a question she's not prepared for.

She reminds me of the teacher at school who was easy to wind up and bring to tears and was always having time off with a nervous breakdown.

 

Quite right. Hence why she won't do debates and doesn't allow members​ of the public near her.
Unless it's scripted she fucks up time and time again(calling terrorists tourists, not knowing where she was etc) Diane Abbott mixing up 300,000 with 300million was more newsworthy.

Apart from fox hunting( which says everything about her and her party, selfservatives) and "strong and stable" what do they actually have?
I'm staggered anyone could tick the box next to a conservative candidate. I really can't work it out?
Someone tweeted me the other day that Labour will do less for the working class than the Tories. I just don't understand how?


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: LucienSanchez on Friday, May 12, 2017, 12:30:11
See, saying there is no good option makes no sense if you look at it all objectively. There are great points on a number of manifesto. The Labour one genuinely seeks to make things better for the majority of every day people, and is costed fully. To argue that it isn't a good option is nonsensical - the benefits are huge.

But then, we've all been told by huge swathes of the media that Corbyn is incompetent, so let's all believe that instead.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Reg Smeeton on Friday, May 12, 2017, 12:53:23
Quite right. Hence why she won't do debates and doesn't allow members​ of the public near her.
Unless it's scripted she fucks up time and time again(calling terrorists tourists, not knowing where she was etc) Diane Abbott mixing up 300,000 with 300million was more newsworthy.

Apart from fox hunting( which says everything about her and her party, selfservatives) and "strong and stable" what do they actually have?
I'm staggered anyone could tick the box next to a conservative candidate. I really can't work it out?
Someone tweeted me the other day that Labour will do less for the working class than the Tories. I just don't understand how?

I know quite a few Tories... and they can have some very strange ideas seemingly completely at odds with reality. I would say though that the uniting theme, is they see life as a rat race, you get where you can by climbing over others...and devil take the hindmost.

Maybe have some sort of system like the workhouse and parish relief, for those truly down on their luck, combined with worthwhile religious charities.

In the meantime they'll look after their own...and expect the Party to work for their interests.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Chubbs on Friday, May 12, 2017, 16:15:55
How long before Corbyn is blamed for the NHS cyber attack?


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Power to people on Friday, May 12, 2017, 16:28:22
How long before Corbyn is blamed for the NHS cyber attack?

You have to be one sick Fcuk to hack hospital computers and then demand money otherwise you will wipe information - lets hope whoever is behind it never needs a hospital


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: herthab on Friday, May 12, 2017, 16:30:01
You have to be one sick Fcuk to hack hospital computers and then demand money otherwise you will wipe information - lets hope whoever is behind it never needs a hospital

I'd much prefer that they will need a hospital....


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: pauld on Friday, May 12, 2017, 17:46:15
I'd much prefer that they will need a hospital....
This. Can we just not decide the election by giving it to whoever Putin hacks on the grounds that the other guys are clearly the baddies?


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Exiled Bob on Friday, May 12, 2017, 18:21:14
As I've lived outside the UK for more than 15 years I am not allowed to vote (despite the Tories promising in their last election lie list that they would change this....), but I would definitely vote Labour. This shower of shit in charge at the moment is the worst I have seen since the days of Thatcher. Luckily for them they have the backing of almost all the media who will ensure that May romps home by constantly attacking everything that Corbyn says and does.

And the average voter, being as thick as pigshit, actually believes that the Tories will be better for them than Labour. Fuck me, what will it take for them to come to their senses?


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Sir Cliff Pipehard on Friday, May 12, 2017, 19:09:59

If you vote Tory and your kids go to a state school,you rely on the NHS for your healthcare and you don't have the security of vast sums of personal wealth,then I'm afraid you are a turkey voting for Christmas.



Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Christy on Friday, May 12, 2017, 23:38:27
Quite right. Hence why she won't do debates and doesn't allow members​ of the public near her.
Unless it's scripted she fucks up time and time again(calling terrorists tourists, not knowing where she was etc) Diane Abbott mixing up 300,000 with 300million was more newsworthy.

Apart from fox hunting( which says everything about her and her party, selfservatives) and "strong and stable" what do they actually have?
I'm staggered anyone could tick the box next to a conservative candidate. I really can't work it out?
Someone tweeted me the other day that Labour will do less for the working class than the Tories. I just don't understand how?

All of this but mainly the staggered bit.  It makes no logical sense for the vast majority of people.

And all hail Reg, for squeezing some sort of rationale out of these miserable creatures and sharing it with us...you're a better man than I, as all I can ever elicit is a shrinking, squirming embarrassment out of these shy, silent cowards.

And here, on this thread - nearly neck and neck in the TEF polling - but where are you Tories?  All hiding?  All afraid to debate?  All just a little bit uncomfortable?


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: RobertT on Saturday, May 13, 2017, 03:28:08
Unfortunately, statistically speaking, half the population is below average intelligence.

Aside from that, odd as it may seem, the majority do actually reject a lot of what the modern left fancy.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Leggett on Saturday, May 13, 2017, 08:46:09
I get a lot of shit from folks at work for my leanings towards Labour, one guy in particular was quite vocal, especially about Corbyn's 'terrorist sympathiser' tag. Speaking to him yesterday, he admitted that Corbyn actually speaks a lot of sense, and he's gonna vote for Labour.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: hobodan on Saturday, May 13, 2017, 08:54:14
This election is purely about Brexit for the majority of the population, and that's easy to understand why. This video sums how a lot of people feel about Corbyn, and how the EU are behaving and why the conservatives will win by a landslide...

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=dcbw2QwwgJk


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: herthab on Saturday, May 13, 2017, 09:05:24
This election is purely about Brexit for the majority of the population, and that's easy to understand why. This video sums how a lot of people feel about Corbyn, and how the EU are behaving and why the conservatives will win by a landslide...

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=dcbw2QwwgJk

Yawn. Instead of watching shit YouTube videos, why don't people look at Labour policies and compare them to what the tories have done and are planning to do?

Labour are far from perfect, but the tories are infinitely worse and the majority are happy to bend over and take it up the arse from them.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: ghanimah on Saturday, May 13, 2017, 12:06:38
This election is purely about Brexit for the majority of the population, and that's easy to understand why. This video sums how a lot of people feel about Corbyn, and how the EU are behaving and why the conservatives will win by a landslide...

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=dcbw2QwwgJk

There's so much ignorance and bullshit in that video on the EU that it's hard to know where to start.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Abrahammer on Saturday, May 13, 2017, 12:09:12
Tories voters have always just kept quiet and voted.

The polls have always underestimated the "silent Tory" voter factor, never more so than the last election.  If it happens again and pollsters still haven't accounted for this then the margin of victory could be wider than anyone could imagine


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Peter Venkman on Saturday, May 13, 2017, 12:13:30
Labour are far from perfect, but the tories are infinitely worse and the majority are happy to bend over and take it up the arse from them.
Thats exactly how I feel about it. So much shit being stirred up in the press about Corbyn but ignore the press and TV and read it yourself, its not about lining their own pockets and those of their rich supporters as the Conservaties always do.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Not that Nice If I'm Honest on Saturday, May 13, 2017, 20:06:05
I was brought up to vote Labour and did for many years

But the labour party unfortunately, no longer represents the working class.

The labour party is full of middle-class people who prefer to tell the working class what they should want, rather than listen to them. When people are working hard to survive, they want a party that understands them, and looks after them.
Not a party that thinks Global Issues are more important than the people they claim to lookafter.

People will scoff at this, but in my opinion, the working class will be better off under a Conservative government at the moment, than a Labour government that puts all the trendy causes ahead of working man/woman


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Reg Smeeton on Saturday, May 13, 2017, 20:45:32
People will scoff at this, but in my opinion, the working class will be better off under a Conservative government at the moment, than a Labour government that puts all the trendy causes ahead of working man/woman
Yes, the working classes with young school age kids are going to do really well out of May's grammar school putsch... there may even be a handful who get a leg up in life.  The 11+ was/is a very strange exam...I know I passed it :)


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: pauld on Saturday, May 13, 2017, 20:52:09
People will scoff at this, but in my opinion, the working class will be better off under a Conservative government at the moment, than a Labour government that puts all the trendy causes ahead of working man/woman
Say what you like, but you can't call Teresa bringing back foxhunting a trendy cause. Not sure how it will help the working man/woman though. Although I can see how the NHS does. And state education. And a decent public transport system. And affordable utilities.But if you think you can do without all those, you go vote for the hunting classes, I'm sure they'll be grateful to you for it.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: The Grim Reaper on Saturday, May 13, 2017, 21:30:48
Let's be clear here. TM hasn't said she will bring back fox hunting, she did she was in favour of it and would let MP's decide by vote in Parliament.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: pauld on Saturday, May 13, 2017, 21:45:19
Let's be clear here. TM hasn't said she will bring back fox hunting, she did she was in favour of it and would let MP's decide by vote in Parliament.
I know. I was making a slightly flippant point in response to NTNIIH suggestion that the Tories are best placed to help the working man/woman whereas Labour would pursue "trendy causes"


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Pax Romana on Sunday, May 14, 2017, 10:32:34
And here, on this thread - nearly neck and neck in the TEF polling - but where are you Tories?  All hiding?  All afraid to debate?  All just a little bit uncomfortable?
I vote Labour whenever they offer a competent administration.  I voted for Callaghan, Blair and Brown.  I voted against Foot, Kinnoch and Milliband.  I thought long and hard about Milliband.  I didn't think for a nanosecond about Corbyn.

1. People constantly maintain that everyone supports Corbyn's policies and are amazed that they won't vote for him.  I think that a lot of swing voters disagree with significant portions of his policies, most notably wholesale re-nationalisation, but that's not the point.  Ask people if they support unlimited free education, unlimited free healthcare, unlimited benefits for the poor, the old, the sick, the disabled, larger pensions, shorter working hours and they'll  agree with all of it individually.  Bundle it up as a plan for running the country and they’ll query how you pay for it.  Not by hitting the rich who are infamously adept at avoiding tax, and anyway there aren't enough of them.

2. The left constantly fails to grasp that general election votes are simply counted, not evaluated and weighted.  An uncertain, unconvinced vote counts the same as an utterly committed one.  I can't prove it but I bet that most of Le Pen's 35% vote was enthusiastic and fervent whilst most of Macron's was simply an "anyone but Le Pen".  So what, he's still the next president.  This left wing delusion that it's somehow progress if you give half as many people five times as many reasons to vote Labour is infantile.

3. Posters on here keep blaming the expected election outcome on the right wing press and the stupid, gullible, idiot voters.  Again, I don't altogether agree but let's assume you are 100% right.  Is this an unforeseen recent development or was it just the same when Corbyn was enthusiastically elected and re-elected?  Was there any basis for anticipating that the press would get less right wing or the voters less stupid in time for the next general election?  Every day is fucking groundhog day for the left as they wake up each morning constantly re-amazed that the world is as it is rather than as they believe that it should be.

4. Another recurring theme on here is that Teresa May is a cunt.  So what?  How is this relevant?  People vote based on who they trust.  All Tory leaders are pretty much the same.  The history of the last 40 years shows that they are generally trusted for their competence and distrusted for their intentions.  Offer a competent Labour administration as an alternative and voters will enthusiastically support them.  Offer a ragbag assortment of clowns and they won’t.

5. Someone asked earlier why people keep saying that “Labour will do less for the working classes than the Tories.  I just don’t understand how?”.   Because they think that Corbyn will wreck the economy and when that happens who suffers, the rich or the poor?  Rightly or wrongly (rightly as it happens) that’s what people believe and that’s how they will vote.  Labour will “do less” because they’ll be sitting on the sidelines passing worthy conference motions and playing with themselves.

So no, I’m not “hiding”, I’m not “afraid” and I’m not “a little bit ashamed”.  I’m angry and frustrated that self-absorbed wankers with their self-satisfied “principles” have left the country with the choice between an absurd socialist dreamer and five more years of Tory government.  They are the real cunts, not Teresa May who is just the latest Tory leader to get the future of this country handed to her on a plate. 


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: herthab on Sunday, May 14, 2017, 10:52:49
I vote Labour whenever they offer a competent administration.  I voted for Callaghan, Blair and Brown.  I voted against Foot, Kinnoch and Milliband.  I thought long and hard about Milliband.  I didn't think for a nanosecond about Corbyn.

1. People constantly maintain that everyone supports Corbyn's policies and are amazed that they won't vote for him.  I think that a lot of swing voters disagree with significant portions of his policies, most notably wholesale re-nationalisation, but that's not the point.  Ask people if they support unlimited free education, unlimited free healthcare, unlimited benefits for the poor, the old, the sick, the disabled, larger pensions, shorter working hours and they'll  agree with all of it individually.  Bundle it up as a plan for running the country and they’ll query how you pay for it.  Not by hitting the rich who are infamously adept at avoiding tax, and anyway there aren't enough of them.

2. The left constantly fails to grasp that general election votes are simply counted, not evaluated and weighted.  An uncertain, unconvinced vote counts the same as an utterly committed one.  I can't prove it but I bet that most of Le Pen's 35% vote was enthusiastic and fervent whilst most of Macron's was simply an "anyone but Le Pen".  So what, he's still the next president.  This left wing delusion that it's somehow progress if you give half as many people five times as many reasons to vote Labour is infantile.

3. Posters on here keep blaming the expected election outcome on the right wing press and the stupid, gullible, idiot voters.  Again, I don't altogether agree but let's assume you are 100% right.  Is this an unforeseen recent development or was it just the same when Corbyn was enthusiastically elected and re-elected?  Was there any basis for anticipating that the press would get less right wing or the voters less stupid in time for the next general election?  Every day is fucking groundhog day for the left as they wake up each morning constantly re-amazed that the world is as it is rather than as they believe that it should be.

4. Another recurring theme on here is that Teresa May is a cunt.  So what?  How is this relevant?  People vote based on who they trust.  All Tory leaders are pretty much the same.  The history of the last 40 years shows that they are generally trusted for their competence and distrusted for their intentions.  Offer a competent Labour administration as an alternative and voters will enthusiastically support them.  Offer a ragbag assortment of clowns and they won’t.

5. Someone asked earlier why people keep saying that “Labour will do less for the working classes than the Tories.  I just don’t understand how?”.   Because they think that Corbyn will wreck the economy and when that happens who suffers, the rich or the poor?  Rightly or wrongly (rightly as it happens) that’s what people believe and that’s how they will vote.  Labour will “do less” because they’ll be sitting on the sidelines passing worthy conference motions and playing with themselves.

So no, I’m not “hiding”, I’m not “afraid” and I’m not “a little bit ashamed”.  I’m angry and frustrated that self-absorbed wankers with their self-satisfied “principles” have left the country with the choice between an absurd socialist dreamer and five more years of Tory government.  They are the real cunts, not Teresa May who is just the latest Tory leader to get the future of this country handed to her on a plate.  


This is a really good post and most of what you wrote is bang on. I'll still be voting Labour though, for a couple of reasons.. My political leaning is slightly left of centre; definitely not Socialist, or Marxist, but voting Lib Dems in Swindon is as pointless as STFC after a derby game. I don't trust either of the other 2 main parties, but for very different reasons. I don't trust Labour because I'm worried that their policies, most of which I agree with, will be difficult to implement due to infighting and weak people in positions of power (Not Corbin, I'm thinking of Dianne Fucking Abbott). I don't trust the tories because they are dangerous. Seriously dangerous. Their policies are self serving, they don't care about 90% of the population, they are destroying public services and they have just as many fucking loons as Labour (Boris Fucking Johnson, Jeremy Fucking Hunt?). In my view, Labour is a lesser evil and that's why I'll be voting for them.

PS. I still maintain that Theresa May is a cunt.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: REDBUCK on Sunday, May 14, 2017, 11:03:34
I'm in Pax's gang.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Abrahammer on Sunday, May 14, 2017, 11:04:29
Bloody good post that Pax


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Reg Smeeton on Sunday, May 14, 2017, 11:54:56
This is a really good post and most of what you wrote is bang on. I'll still be voting Labour though, for a couple of reasons.. My political leaning is slightly left of centre; definitely not Socialist, or Marxist, but voting Lib Dems in Swindon is as pointless as STFC after a derby game. I don't trust either of the other 2 main parties, but for very different reasons. I don't trust Labour because I'm worried that their policies, most of which I agree with, will be difficult to implement due to infighting and weak people in positions of power (Not Corbin, I'm thinking of Dianne Fucking Abbott). I don't trust the tories because they are dangerous. Seriously dangerous. Their policies are self serving, they don't care about 90% of the population, they are destroying public services and they have just as many fucking loons as Labour (Boris Fucking Johnson, Jeremy Fucking Hunt?). In my view, Labour is a lesser evil and that's why I'll be voting for them.

PS. I still maintain that Theresa May is a cunt.

I'm not sure how PR can describe the present Tory administration as any way competent.

 He's right though to say they are distrusted for their intentions... and as you say this current lot have some very dangerous intentions.

 

 


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: chalkies_shorts on Sunday, May 14, 2017, 11:58:36
 Great post pax. I'm a traditional labour supporter but want out of the EU so voted ukip. This time around I'd love to vote labour but don't think I can. Can't vote tory either. Anyone who introduces the bedroom tax is not fit for government. Tax fucking Starbucks not the fucking disabled. I do, however, think there needs to be a benefits cap.
One of the things I hate about labour at the moment is the intellectual superiority of shitbags like Abbott and thornberry. It's not their fault they can't convince the voters, it's that the voters are intellectual pygmies and just don't get it. Lib dem are just a bunch of sexual deviants. It really is a choice of who is less shit.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Berniman on Sunday, May 14, 2017, 12:46:19
Couldn't agree more with Pax, especially point 4.

One of the most succinct posts of read on here in a long time, which is scary in our world of 80% bollocks..


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: pauld on Sunday, May 14, 2017, 13:25:55
I'm not sure how PR can describe the present Tory administration as any way competent.
He didn't he said they were perceived as being competent and that is why people will vote for them when Labour put up a "ragbag assortment of clowns" (an excellent description of Corbyn's proposed govt in waiting) as an alternative. TBF though the description applies equally well to the party that brought us the Brexit shambles (whether you wanted Brexit or not, having the idiots Johnson and Fox who campaigned for it but didn't have a plan as to what would happen if they won, not just in govt  but in charge of Brexit is just ridiculous), the NHS hack, Austerity (and then fucked that up by spectacularly missing their own targets), Amber fucking Rudd etc etc. It's a choice between one bunch of incompetent clowns and another, not a great choice. That's not to mention May's terrifying unquestioning cosying up to the Clown in Chief Trump and all the harm he will do.

So I guess the question is do you want relatively well-meaning incompetent clowns or evil malicious incompetent clowns?

(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/6/61/ChuckyDoll.jpg)
The new minister in charge of implementing Tory cuts


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Reg Smeeton on Sunday, May 14, 2017, 13:48:11
He didn't he said they were perceived as being competent

OK let me change that...

I'm not sure how PR can describe the present Tory administration as being perceived as any way competent.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: The Grim Reaper on Sunday, May 14, 2017, 15:20:48
Compared to the previous Labour government under Blair/Brown it's easy to see why they are perceived to be more competent.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Pax Romana on Sunday, May 14, 2017, 15:59:50
Compared to the previous Labour government under Blair/Brown it's easy to see why they are perceived to be more competent.
I don't agree.  Brown had his presentational faults but I think history will recognise that we were very fortunate to have such a competent and courageous chancellor in 2008 when we really needed one.  Imagine Norman Lamont in the same scenario.

By contrast Teresa May looks utterly clueless, the references earlier in this thread to her looking like a rabbit in the headlights seem spot on.  Yes it's great to be tough and resolute but there needs to be some intelligence and vision behind it.  Worse still the team behind her look average at best. 

In the past the Tories had brains even if they didn't have hearts.  Osborne (say) may not have been everyone's favourite human being but he was smart. 

I think a May government will be a shambles and I'm voting for them as the best available option.  If I lived 5 miles further east I'd actually have to vote for her personally and I would.  It's a fucking joke.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: StfcRusty on Sunday, May 14, 2017, 17:59:09
Somehow the Tories always seem to benefit from the label of being the party of  "economic competence". Why?

I grew up during a period of exclusively Tory rule. Not looked any of this up but my memory is of a time of massive boom-and-bust - 15%+ interest rates, negative-equity, stock market crash, 4 million unemployed, inner city riots etc.

Yet it always Labour labelled as "taking us back to the 70s" as if the 80s and early 90s are the halcyon days of lore.

Some people wouldn't be able to comprehend mortgage rates in double-figures let alone cope with them. Any significant increase in the next few years to counteract the recent inflationary pressures would see dire consequences for many.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: ron dodgers on Sunday, May 14, 2017, 19:37:06
I think I'll wait to read the manifestos, I've done the Labour draft one and that seems more radical than those before it, I'm happy about Royal Mail and the train franchises and education etc. I'd probably be better off voting Con but we'll see what they publish. I would like to see health have a higher GDP percentage spend than it does now as a priority and free bus passes at 55.
love
Ron


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: ghanimah on Sunday, May 14, 2017, 22:32:39
TBF though the description applies equally well to the party that brought us the Brexit shambles (whether you wanted Brexit or not, having the idiots Johnson and Fox who campaigned for it but didn't have a plan as to what would happen if they won, not just in govt  but in charge of Brexit is just ridiculous),


That I agree with, not least David Davis who doesn't understand the basic difference between an EU customs union and the EEA (Single Market). Even worse they were offered a plan (http://www.eureferendum.com/documents/flexcit.pdf) but they rejected it on the basis it contradicted their copious wealthy backers views of an "Adam Smith" type bonfire of regulations. On that basis the Tories are trying to hijack the result for their own ends.

Unfortunately the real world don't work like that, and certainly the EU doesn't. Theresa May might want to ignore the British electorate after a possible big GE victory but issues like the NI and Irish border are not going to go away.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Christy on Sunday, May 14, 2017, 22:42:16
By contrast Teresa May looks utterly clueless, the references earlier in this thread to her looking like a rabbit in the headlights seem spot on.  Yes it's great to be tough and resolute but there needs to be some intelligence and vision behind it.  Worse still the team behind her look average at best.  

I think a May government will be a shambles and I'm voting for them as the best available option.  If I lived 5 miles further east I'd actually have to vote for her personally and I would.  It's a fucking joke.

Thanks PR for offering some insight into the mindset of potential Conservative voters.  Desperate times indeed.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: theakston2k on Sunday, May 14, 2017, 23:26:32
I think I'll wait to read the manifestos, I've done the Labour draft one and that seems more radical than those before it, I'm happy about Royal Mail and the train franchises and education etc.
Having worked within Network Rail I couldn't think of anything worst than bringing the railways back into public ownership, the inefficiencies are staggering. Still catching up with decades of underinvestment from when it was last publicly operated by BR. Having the TOC's in place at least leads to some investment and forces them to deliver due to the financial penalties for overrunning possessions and delay minutes.
Just need to look at the mess Network Rail are making of the Great Western electrification, can only imagine the chaos if they ran the trains as well!


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Arriba on Monday, May 15, 2017, 11:26:48
Having worked within Network Rail I couldn't think of anything worst than bringing the railways back into public ownership, the inefficiencies are staggering. Still catching up with decades of underinvestment from when it was last publicly operated by BR. Having the TOC's in place at least leads to some investment and forces them to deliver due to the financial penalties for overrunning possessions and delay minutes.
Just need to look at the mess Network Rail are making of the Great Western electrification, can only imagine the chaos if they ran the trains as well!

Well it works in other countries. We're paying for it already so why not see the money stay within the public purse rather than into cunts like Richard Branson's pockets?


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: horlock07 on Monday, May 15, 2017, 11:39:07
Having worked within Network Rail I couldn't think of anything worst than bringing the railways back into public ownership, the inefficiencies are staggering. Still catching up with decades of underinvestment from when it was last publicly operated by BR. Having the TOC's in place at least leads to some investment and forces them to deliver due to the financial penalties for overrunning possessions and delay minutes.
Just need to look at the mess Network Rail are making of the Great Western electrification, can only imagine the chaos if they ran the trains as well!

As Network Rail is a QUANGO and ultimately responsible to parliament is it not a national company anyway.

As for the ToC's they have hardly been a resounding success as we are subsidising them to a greater level than BR ever were in the good old days (which weren't very good!)and essentially just paying the private sector to run train services?

What Labour seem to have missed is that whilst in theory one could renationalise the ToC fairly easy and cheaply by letting the franchises cease and not renewing (although there would be a complete bun fight over the terms and conditions of the various staff which would keep the Unions busy for years) what they haven't accounted for is the rolling stock which is all in private hands, not owned by the company operating the trains, for instance I think most of the GWR stock is actually owned by Angel Trains https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Angel_Trains and buying all the stock back is going to cost a small fortune.

Like so many Labour ideas looks good at first glance but can it actually be delivered and what does it actually achieve?



Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: theakston2k on Monday, May 15, 2017, 12:14:11
As Network Rail is a QUANGO and ultimately responsible to parliament is it not a national company anyway.
What Labour seem to have missed is that whilst in theory one could renationalise the ToC fairly easy and cheaply by letting the franchises cease and not renewing (although there would be a complete bun fight over the terms and conditions of the various staff which would keep the Unions busy for years) what they haven't accounted for is the rolling stock which is all in private hands, not owned by the company operating the trains, for instance I think most of the GWR stock is actually owned by Angel Trains https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Angel_Trains and buying all the stock back is going to cost a small fortune.

As for the ToC's they have hardly been a resounding success as we are subsidising them to a greater level than BR ever were in the good old days (which weren't very good!)and essentially just paying the private sector to run train services?


Like so many Labour ideas looks good at first glance but can it actually be delivered and what does it actually achieve?


In 2014 NR became a public sector body so to all intents and purposes it's a National Company but that is by for by.  When you look back at the likes of British Rail, CEGB etc they were grossly inefficient, poorly managed and allowed national infrastructure to deteriorate to the extent that even today they are still undoing decades of neglect.
A lot of NR are ex British Rail and still operate in an antiquated way where they think they have access to bottomless pits of money and that just doesn't work and NR have already racked up debts in the region of £40 billion as a result.  If a company is nationalised it still needs to operate like a private company and deliver efficiencies and value for money and in my experience of the public sector this is never the case.

The cost to do it would take decades to pay back partly because as you say the rolling stock is privately owned. With all the new stock just ordered from the likes of Hitachi, Siemens and Bombardier on long term leases this isn't going to change any time soon. 

It may work in other countries but it never worked here under BR and factoring the cost/benefit I just don't see what it would actually deliver here other than a huge initial increase in our national debt.



Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: horlock07 on Monday, May 15, 2017, 12:43:45
We have finally had some bumf through the door this morning, the Tory one makes interesting reading as seems to be entirely based around Theresa May and if she is their best asset god help them and by extension us....

Couple of things caught my eye....

It is claiming explicitly that the deficit is down by almost two thirds - now I suppose by not giving a starting point that open to interpretation, but hasn't debt gone through the roof since 2010 and thus isn't this a blatant lie? They are also going to take back control of our borders, whilst various party members admit on the TV that this is not really going to happen, ensure we leave in an orderly and smooth way - again evidence suggests whatever the deal it will be neither smooth nor orderly, and finally they commit to provide as much clarity at every stage of the process which kind of contradicts the attempts to keep parliament out of the entire process.

Very telling that, if this is to be believed, the Tories conclude this election is about Theresa May and Brexit and nothing else! What it is entirely lacking in is any substance or policies..... Much like Mrs May herself really.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Reg Smeeton on Monday, May 15, 2017, 12:49:53
We have finally had some bumf through the door this morning, the Tory one makes interesting reading as seems to be entirely based around Theresa May and if she is their best asset god help them and by extension us....

Couple of things caught my eye....

It is claiming explicitly that the deficit is down by almost two thirds - now I suppose by not giving a starting point that open to interpretation, but hasn't debt gone through the roof since 2010 and thus isn't this a blatant lie? They are also going to take back control of our borders, whilst various party members admit on the TV that this is not really going to happen, ensure we leave in an orderly and smooth way - again evidence suggests whatever the deal it will be neither smooth nor orderly, and finally they commit to provide as much clarity at every stage of the process which kind of contradicts the attempts to keep parliament out of the entire process.

Very telling that, if this is to be believed, the Tories conclude this election is about Theresa May and Brexit and nothing else! What it is entirely lacking in is any substance or policies..... Much like Mrs May herself really.

It's fair to say this election is about Brexit. My gut feeling is that May won't want to tank the UK economy...so some kind of Norway style deal will have to be agreed. Her problem is going to be selling this to the UKIP wing of her party


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: pauld on Monday, May 15, 2017, 12:54:34
Very telling that, if this is to be believed, the Tories conclude this election is about Theresa May and Brexit and nothing else! What it is entirely lacking in is any substance or policies..... Much like Mrs May herself really.
There was a programme on R4 over the weekend about the election campaigns to date, which I only caught part of, but was basically saying exactly this - May has decided she sells well but the "Nasty Party" doesn't so she's decided to conduct the most presidential campaign since Blair and ask people to vote for her, not the Tories. According to the programme (sorry can't remember what it was, but think it was on Sat morning IIRC), polling shows that people don't like her, but they do think she'll do a good job, esp around Brexit. Despite the evidence to date.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Samdy Gray on Monday, May 15, 2017, 13:18:51
It is claiming explicitly that the deficit is down by almost two thirds - now I suppose by not giving a starting point that open to interpretation, but hasn't debt gone through the roof since 2010 and thus isn't this a blatant lie?

https://fullfact.org/economy/deficit-down-two-thirds/

BBC article on debt vs deficit (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-25944653)


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: dogs on Monday, May 15, 2017, 13:32:03
Another thing about the national debt, I'm sure the rise to the current level, from £1 trillion in 2010, was inevitable due to the annual interest servicing it and this was predicted to happen regardless to who was in power later in the decade.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: horlock07 on Monday, May 15, 2017, 13:35:56
There was a programme on R4 over the weekend about the election campaigns to date, which I only caught part of, but was basically saying exactly this - May has decided she sells well but the "Nasty Party" doesn't so she's decided to conduct the most presidential campaign since Blair and ask people to vote for her, not the Tories. According to the programme (sorry can't remember what it was, but think it was on Sat morning IIRC), polling shows that people don't like her, but they do think she'll do a good job, esp around Brexit. Despite the evidence to date.

Interestingly the leaflet has Theresa May in capitals on the front along with a picture but no mention of the Tory Party at all.

Its also completely lacking in any policies and just basically states that it will be shit if Corbyn gets in!


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: horlock07 on Monday, May 15, 2017, 13:36:37
Another thing about the national debt, I'm sure the rise to the current level, from £1 trillion in 2010, was inevitable due to the annual interest servicing it and this was predicted to happen regardless to who was in power later in the decade.

I would suspect the trashing of the value of the pound over the last 12 months hasn't helped much either?


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Chubbs on Monday, May 15, 2017, 17:57:59
Hands up who can afford to take 12 months off work unpaid?


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: horlock07 on Monday, May 15, 2017, 18:02:59
Hands up who can afford to take 12 months off work unpaid?

Tim Sherwood?


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: hobodan on Monday, May 15, 2017, 20:34:19
Ofcourse this election is about Brexit. Can you imagine Corbyn and his racist side kick Diane Abbot getting a decent deal for Britain 😳 Not a chance in hell. Many people will vote Tory in this election and probably never vote for them again, they really are the only party that can play hardball with E.U Gestapo, who intend to play 'hardball' with us.

I've no idea how Corbyn intends to pay for the ridiculous things he's been coming out with recently. Maybe labour really do intend to pay new police officers £30 a month.....


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Saxondale on Monday, May 15, 2017, 20:39:11
Ive an idea.  Why not wait for the costed manifestos to come out.  Then perhaps you can make an informed decision.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Nemo on Monday, May 15, 2017, 20:39:49
The best thing about this election (in admittedly a piss poor field) is that the Grauniad have got David Squires to do a political cartoon:

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/ng-interactive/2017/may/15/david-squires-on-theresa-may-meeting-voters-hip-hop-ids-and-aspirational-foxes


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Reg Smeeton on Monday, May 15, 2017, 20:41:13
The best thing about this election (in admittedly a piss poor field) is that the Grauniad have got David Squires to do a political cartoon:

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/ng-interactive/2017/may/15/david-squires-on-theresa-may-meeting-voters-hip-hop-ids-and-aspirational-foxes

Panel 6 done with Sippo in mind.


Title: Re: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: horlock07 on Monday, May 15, 2017, 20:52:52
Ofcourse this election is about Brexit. Can you imagine Corbyn and his racist side kick Diane Abbot getting a decent deal for Britain 😳 Not a chance in hell. Many people will vote Tory in this election and probably never vote for them again, they really are the only party that can play hardball with E.U Gestapo, who intend to play 'hardball' with us.

I've no idea how Corbyn intends to pay for the ridiculous things he's been coming out with recently. Maybe labour really do intend to pay new police officers £30 a month.....
It intrigues me that Diane Abbott gets under the skin of right wing voters so much, just cannot put my finger on why she irritates them so much?


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: mystical_goat on Monday, May 15, 2017, 21:13:42
 ;D


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: bamboonoshoe on Monday, May 15, 2017, 22:12:10
I know this is a little off topic but I find people don't properly understand "tax hikes" and this hopefully explains that it doesn't do as much damage to your (average) take home salary as many would think. There's a lot of piping up to be done when "tax rises" get mentioned. I really don't have a massive problem with it. Yes it's "your money" and "how dare they" but let's just consider a small amount of facts here.

E.g

The average full-time, tax paying worker earned c£28k in 2016[1], for this e.g we'll use £25k.

Now consider that the first £11k at present is exempt of taxation. It leaves us with a taxable £14k.

Currently 20% is the income tax for that figure. Which equates to £2800.
This leaves us with £11.2k - c£2050 in NIC's + the £11k (tax exempt) =
£20.15k after NIC or the average annual Net pay.[2]


Lets consider the government levy a 2% income tax rise across the board. Working with the average income that would be just another £280.

£280 into the Government purse pppa.
Consider that £280 pp would be deducted;
 £1.08p per working day   
 £5.39p "                 week              
 £23.33 per working month.

Now consider on average c30 million people pay tax in the UK, of which 4.4million will pay at the higher rate (not the additional rate).[3]
£280
x
30 million
=
£8,400,000,000
or £8.4bn per annum.

That is an effective way of raising funds for the public purse, whilst also not effectively a massive amount to the individual taxpayer. People don't like it but surely we must all agree that if we want more spent on our public services then we must be expected to pay a little more in tax and I really only mean, a little.

I've inserted some references for some of you fellow geeks and others who complain about sources etc. I'm sure you'll find it as compelling as I did...

[1]https://www.ons.gov.uk/employmentandlabourmarket/peopleinwork/earningsandworkinghours/bulletins/annualsurveyofhoursandearnings/2016provisionalresults "see section 3."

[2]http://www.netsalarycalculator.co.uk/25000-after-tax/

[3]https://www.ifs.org.uk/bns/bn09.pdf "see page 8"


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Nemo on Tuesday, May 16, 2017, 11:18:57
In the spirit of trying to present things apolitically for people who genuinely haven't made their minds up, here's a bit of information in what's in Labour's manifesto around tax and spend - which is obviously important as one of the main points against Corbyn/McDonnell is that they'd spend more than they raise.

Labour's revenue raising measures here:
(http://pbs.twimg.com/media/C_8J3HHXkAEa39t.jpg)

The headlines are 45% income tax for those earning over 80k and 50% for over 123k, increased corporation tax and then smaller measures around VAT on private school fees, tax on soft drinks, scrapping the married persons' tax allowance and reversing cuts to capital gains and inheritance which have already been announced.

Then spending that money:
(http://pbs.twimg.com/media/C_8K4RVUIAAFfzj.jpg)

Headlines are spending about 25% of that money scrapping University tuition fees entirely, then big chunks for increasing schools funding, the NHS, social security and public sector pay rises.

At the moment, their numbers seem to assume that renationalisations won't cost a penny to the tax payer (willing to be corrected on that) and leave out the cost of hiring 3000 prison guards committed to elsewhere.

As this is the first major manifesto to launch, it's not possibly to compare this with Tory/Lib Dem plans yet but it doesn't look completely insane on the face of it. Devil in the detail no doubt as always with manifestos.

Personally (and here I'll leave behind trying to be neutral) I don't like University tuition fees, but that seems like a lot of money to commit to one policy - I'd much rather see that money spent on Sure Start and programmes for younger people in education if the goal is social mobility - can't help but feel that by the age of 18 a lot of the damage is done.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: bamboonoshoe on Tuesday, May 16, 2017, 12:37:27
In the spirit of trying to present things apolitically for people who genuinely haven't made their minds up, here's a bit of information in what's in Labour's manifesto around tax and spend - which is obviously important as one of the main points against Corbyn/McDonnell is that they'd spend more than they raise.

Labour's revenue raising measures here:
(http://pbs.twimg.com/media/C_8J3HHXkAEa39t.jpg)

The headlines are 45% income tax for those earning over 80k and 50% for over 123k, increased corporation tax and then smaller measures around VAT on private school fees, tax on soft drinks, scrapping the married persons' tax allowance and reversing cuts to capital gains and inheritance which have already been announced.

Then spending that money:
(http://pbs.twimg.com/media/C_8K4RVUIAAFfzj.jpg)

Headlines are spending about 25% of that money scrapping University tuition fees entirely, then big chunks for increasing schools funding, the NHS, social security and public sector pay rises.

At the moment, their numbers seem to assume that renationalisation won't cost a penny to the tax payer (willing to be corrected on that) and leave out the cost of hiring 3000 prison guards committed to elsewhere.

As this is the first major manifesto to launch, it's not possible to compare this with Tory/Lib Dem plans yet but it doesn't look completely insane on the face of it. Devil in the detail no doubt as always with manifestos.

Personally (and here I'll leave behind trying to be neutral) I don't like University tuition fees, but that seems like a lot of money to commit to one policy - I'd much rather see that money spent on Sure Start and programmes for younger people in education if the goal is social mobility - can't help but feel that by the age of 18 a lot of the damage is done.

Good work Nemo. As you say, on the surface it seems to pretty much add up. It's a fair manifesto with a little more spending than recouping (If we factor in a renationalisation cost and 3k prison guards) but a Labour Government will always invest in the state so that's nothing new or shocking. As stated in my previous post, if the Government levied a 2% income tax rise for all 30 million tax payers then that would on average raise £8.4bn per year, some £42bn per 5 year term.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Batch on Tuesday, May 16, 2017, 13:08:00
some £42bn per 5 year term.

Blimey, that's nearly half the Brexit bill
;)


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: pauld on Tuesday, May 16, 2017, 13:27:29
Blimey, that's nearly half the Brexit bill
;)
Isn't that "disgraced and then unaccountably recalled" minister Liam Fox's nickname?


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: bamboonoshoe on Tuesday, May 16, 2017, 15:57:04
Blimey, that's nearly half the Brexit bill
;)

Indeed, and it just shows how little it would take to pay off in a country as wealthy as ours. ;)


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: RobertT on Tuesday, May 16, 2017, 16:00:03
The issue that any rise in basic Income Tax levels faces is that many people resent having to pay it all.  A significant proportion of the country would happily get rid of income tax because they associate the spend with things they don't see direct personal value in - at least not today!

It's like the spending argument - the majority of welfare spending (that which causes most split) is actuall Pension and Social Care for the elderly.  Everything else is swamped by it, but we'll no doubt have debates about Disability, Tax Credits and the like.

You can essentially boil it down to two very simple areas of focus to actually get finances under control - increase the retirement age (and take the flak from the older people) or increase direct taxation (and take a hit from those in their peak earning years).

I'd hazard a guess that moving the retirement age to 70 would slash the budget, or free-up resources to spent on all the smaller projects, like the NHS.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Reg Smeeton on Tuesday, May 16, 2017, 16:23:10
 The Tories have finessed the Social Care budget, by as in Victorian times moving it onto the Parish.

 


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: bamboonoshoe on Tuesday, May 16, 2017, 16:27:09
The issue that any rise in basic Income Tax levels faces is that many people resent having to pay it all.  A significant proportion of the country would happily get rid of income tax because they associate the spend with things they don't see direct personal value in - at least not today!

It's like the spending argument - the majority of welfare spending (that which causes most split) is actuall Pension and Social Care for the elderly.  Everything else is swamped by it, but we'll no doubt have debates about Disability, Tax Credits and the like.

You can essentially boil it down to two very simple areas of focus to actually get finances under control - increase the retirement age (and take the flak from the older people) or increase direct taxation (and take a hit from those in their peak earning years).

I'd hazard a guess that moving the retirement age to 70 would slash the budget, or free-up resources to spent on all the smaller projects, like the NHS.

This is the trouble though. People want their cake and eat it. Which ok, is fine but if the government turned round and said "ok, keep all of your earnings but you have to pay for and source everything. Everything."

 Now people like keeping hold of their money, the extra greedy would spend it all on themselves and nothing would get done or it would be severely fractured indeed. Admittedly some communities would thrive, especially where all are pushing in the same direction. Majority wise though people would refuse to put in and then still complain. It's basic, in order to have even better services people must be prepared to pay. Taxation is basically insurance in a different suit.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: RobertT on Tuesday, May 16, 2017, 17:34:19
You may think like that, just pointing out the plenty do not - coming from a perspective of thinking your view is right is why people become so flabbergasted at the opposition.  BTW, if I was still paying in, I'd be happy with both a tax rise and raising the retirement age.  Reduce VAT and quite frankly corporation tax is a joke anyway, so may as well slash it to get some positive PR.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: bamboonoshoe on Tuesday, May 16, 2017, 19:12:41
Quote
You may think like that, just pointing out the plenty do not - coming from a perspective of thinking your view is right is why people become so flabbergasted at the opposition.

Totally agree. It's kind of sad though. Whatever happened to "you get back what you put in".  Not necessarily thinking my view is right (I know it is ;) ) and i'm all for helping those who need it. I don't earn very much myself but i'm of the opinion that income is all relative to how you spend the Benjamins. As the saying goes..."charity doesn't start at home, it starts where it is needed."

^*Side note: Immigration; Most people have issues with immigration (generally down to media and government scaremongering) saying "it costs us too much", "we can't afford it." etc. However, according to www.unhcr.org,uk if we factored the 2016 figures of 117k refugees and c33k asylum seekers of which the asylum seekers are not allowed to work so can receive £37pw in benefits. Even if we apply that to the refugee and asylum figures combined (c150k x £37 x 52 = c£288m divide by 30mil taxpayers =£9.62 divide by 365 = £0.026p per person per day.) Less than 3p per day. I call it the "Coffee cup change" statistic. Being many people throw their 5p or less change back to the tax avoiding Starbucks (ironic huh?) once they've received their coffee/tea/frappe/whatever. When people say we "can't afford it" I do have to laugh. Remember the <3p is an over estimated figure by nearly five times the amount so we could easily divide 3p by 5 and the asylum seeker actual cost per person is 0.5p per day.

Apologies for my ramble on.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Simon Pieman on Tuesday, May 16, 2017, 20:53:16
Funny you mention that as there was talk the lib dems would impose a 5p coffee cup charge like the plastic bag charge


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: bamboonoshoe on Wednesday, May 17, 2017, 01:09:13
Funny you mention that as there was talk the lib dems would impose a 5p coffee cup charge like the plastic bag charge

Oh really, that passed me by so total coincidence.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: horlock07 on Wednesday, May 17, 2017, 09:49:48
This makes rather chilling reading for democracy in this country....

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2017/may/07/the-great-british-brexit-robbery-hijacked-democracy


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Nemo on Wednesday, May 17, 2017, 12:37:05
As I did this yesterday for Labour, the Lib Dem manifesto has been launched today.

Key headlines are:

Tax
  • 1p on all income tax bands to go to the NHS directly
  • Legalise and tax cannabis to raise £1bn a year
  • Reverse reduction in corporation tax and higher threshold for inheritance tax and remove married persons tax allowance altogether

Spending
  • £7.5bn for education, focusing largely on early years e.g. tripling pupil premium
  • Reverse benefit freeze (actually going further the Labour here, it seems)
  • Government to build homes directly, targeting 300k new homes a year from private + govt housebuilding
  • Free home insulation for 4m homes to reduce energy bills/help the environment

Other
  • Second EU referendum on terms of final Brexit deal
  • Offer asylum to 50,000 Syrians and 3,000 unaccompanied children
  • Proportional representation in Westminster elections, votes for 16 & 17 year olds

Overall it's fairly close to Labour's effort, with a clearer (and remain-er) outlook on Europe and nothing on nationalisation. Oh, and (in my opinion anyway) better targeted spending of the increase in education.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: herthab on Wednesday, May 17, 2017, 13:14:44
I watched BBC Breakfast this morning and was embarrassed for the stupidity of the presenter, who couldn't get her head around how the better paid would pay more income tax than those on a lesser salary under the Lib Dem's plan. The Lib Dem spokesman kept saying that it was 1p in the pound increase across the board, but she just couldn't get it. Cringing.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: horlock07 on Wednesday, May 17, 2017, 13:24:03
I watched BBC Breakfast this morning and was embarrassed for the stupidity of the presenter, who couldn't get her head around how the better paid would pay more income tax than those on a lesser salary under the Lib Dem's plan. The Lib Dem spokesman kept saying that it was 1p in the pound increase across the board, but she just couldn't get it. Cringing.

Its almost as bizarre as the fact (as the Tories have realised) very few of the population appear to have a clue what inflation actually means (or leads to)?


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: bamboonoshoe on Wednesday, May 17, 2017, 16:00:50
Its almost as bizarre as the fact (as the Tories have realised) very few of the population appear to have a clue what inflation actually means (or leads to)?

Absolutely. What is inflation, except for when i've eaten too much...


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Christy on Wednesday, May 17, 2017, 22:02:08
I watched BBC Breakfast this morning and was embarrassed for the stupidity of the presenter, who couldn't get her head around how the better paid would pay more income tax than those on a lesser salary under the Lib Dem's plan. The Lib cDem spokesman kept saying that it was 1p in the pound increase across the board, but she just couldn't get it. Cringing.

On the other hand, on BBC5 Live this morning, Rachel Burden gave Phil Hammond a right mauling (I'm guessing she was similar with McDonnell yesterday?).  It was most impressive listening as her voice quivered with emotion and anger - after all, who'd have thought that the Chancellor of the Exchequer would be muddled and vague struggling through the difference between debt and deficit?


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: herthab on Thursday, May 18, 2017, 07:19:59
Jeremy Hunt is on BBC Breakfast. What a smarmy cunt. I'm getting really fed up with listening to politicians side-stepping, or totally ignoring, questions put to them.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Arriba on Thursday, May 18, 2017, 12:24:00
Check out @chunkymark on Twitter. He's great


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: ghanimah on Thursday, May 18, 2017, 12:54:16
This makes rather chilling reading for democracy in this country....

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2017/may/07/the-great-british-brexit-robbery-hijacked-democracy

The old adage of "don't believe what you read in newspapers" applies here, and applies in spades.  The referendum wasn't won by so-called "big data", especially with claims by Cummings and Matthew Elliot of Vote Leave who are trying to rewrite history yet have a long history of being less than candid about their use of data.

http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/staggers/2016/11/vote-leave-campaign-wasn-t-clever-it-thinks-it-was

http://www.eureferendum.com/blogview.aspx?blogno=86470


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: pauld on Thursday, May 18, 2017, 14:04:20
Although from the same magazine we get:

http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/uk/2016/10/arron-banks-man-who-bought-brexit

http://www.newstatesman.com/2017/03/populists-can-be-beaten-heres-how

which backs this view, with rather more substance than the "I tried it and it was shit" view of one man. Cummings may well be a bullshitter, no surprise there, just look at Farage, Johnson, Fox et al and it seems to be a requirement for being prominent in the Leave campaign. But nonetheless there is clearly if not an alliance, certainly a communion of interest between the US hard right figures behind Trump and the European/UK hard right populists, such as Banks and Farage over here. It's no surprise that they'd look to boost each other's intrerests by sharing tactics and resources. And a big part of that is manipulating public opinion via social media, Bannon and Mercer deployed it to great effect in the US, why wouldn't their allies and friends over here use the same?


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: pauld on Friday, May 19, 2017, 09:05:18
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C_3NOZHWsAAVKJZ.jpg)

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DABezQ0XcAAIXXt.jpg)
https://twitter.com/Tory__Jesus @Tory__Jesus


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: horlock07 on Friday, May 19, 2017, 10:06:19
Anyone care to summarise the Tory manifesto?


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: StfcRusty on Friday, May 19, 2017, 10:15:40
Anyone care to summarise the Tory manifesto?



Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: pauld on Friday, May 19, 2017, 10:23:23
Anyone care to summarise the Tory manifesto?
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DABezQ0XcAAIXXt.jpg)
https://twitter.com/Tory__Jesus @Tory__Jesus


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Flashheart on Friday, May 19, 2017, 22:13:38
I'll just leave this here:

http://www.thepoke.co.uk/2017/05/19/video-will-facepalming-next-week/


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: ibelieveinmrreeves on Friday, May 19, 2017, 23:15:01
I'll just leave this here:

http://www.thepoke.co.uk/2017/05/19/video-will-facepalming-next-week/

Christ on a bike.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: StfcRusty on Saturday, May 20, 2017, 10:32:21
The Conservative party are proposing to abandon the Leveson reforms which they agreed on a cross-party basis in 2011, and to cancel Part 2 of the inquiry which would investigate police corruption and the cover-ups of criminality at newspapers.

Their manifesto pledges to repeal the “Section 40” low cost arbitration incentive and, some might say, deny ordinary people affected by illegal press abuse access to justice.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Pax Romana on Saturday, May 20, 2017, 11:59:22
I was actually rather pleasantly surprised by the tory manifesto.  Perhaps less bad than I feared would be more accurate.  Also it pandered to one of my pet hates, universal winter fuel allowance.

What staggers me is that her campaign is managing to get even more presidential.  That such a mediocre person believes, quite possibly correctly, that focussing solely on her personal attributes is an election winning strategy is just so depressing.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: horlock07 on Saturday, May 20, 2017, 14:40:21
The Conservative party are proposing to abandon the Leveson reforms which they agreed on a cross-party basis in 2011, and to cancel Part 2 of the inquiry which would investigate police corruption and the cover-ups of criminality at newspapers.

Their manifesto pledges to repeal the “Section 40” low cost arbitration incentive and, some might say, deny ordinary people affected by illegal press abuse access to justice.

And people wonder why the Mail, Express Sun and others pander to them so much!


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: chalkies_shorts on Saturday, May 20, 2017, 15:04:39
Can somebody put me straight on something in the Tory manifesto. If I own a home jointly with my wife say worth £300k and one of us goes into a home or has home help. They stay there for a while and the bills rack up. Their £150k equity becomes £100k. The survivor would then have to stump up £50k or sell the house. Is this right?


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Samdy Gray on Saturday, May 20, 2017, 16:14:10
No, you won't be forced to sell, but the local authority may take a legal charge over the property under a 'deferred payment' arrangement.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Reg Smeeton on Saturday, May 20, 2017, 16:17:56
Can somebody put me straight on something in the Tory manifesto. If I own a home jointly with my wife say worth £300k and one of us goes into a home or has home help. They stay there for a while and the bills rack up. Their £150k equity becomes £100k. The survivor would then have to stump up £50k or sell the house. Is this right?

The Tories should introduce voluntary euthanasia as part of their policy....although the Mail would probably veto it on the grounds that it's got EU in the word.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: chalkies_shorts on Saturday, May 20, 2017, 16:33:28
No, you won't be forced to sell, but the local authority may take a legal charge over the property under a 'deferred payment' arrangement.
OK ta. I'd imagine equity release schemes will do well out of this as will care homes etc unless they regulate it and even then.....


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Christy on Saturday, May 20, 2017, 20:54:16
The Tories should introduce voluntary euthanasia as part of their policy....although the Mail would probably veto it on the grounds that it's got EU in the word.

Indeed...

Their headline tomorrow is 'Terrorists. Brown skin. So even we'd prefer EU than Asia'

Has anyone seen my coat?


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Bogus Dave on Sunday, May 21, 2017, 18:19:44
HIdden away in the Tory manifesto small print is that they'll be restricting funding for non-chemotherapy cancer treatments. Which will include additional drugs needed to cope with chemotherapy.

But people will still vote for them because they'll raise the income tax limit and save people £600 a year


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: jayohaitchenn on Monday, May 22, 2017, 11:44:21
Phillip May is CEO of a company with a 30% market share in house equity insurance.

http://voxpoliticalonline.com/2017/05/21/is-the-dementia-tax-a-plan-to-make-money-for-theresa-may-and-her-husband/


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: pauld on Monday, May 22, 2017, 12:36:07
Phillip May is CEO of a company with a 30% market share in house equity insurance.

http://voxpoliticalonline.com/2017/05/21/is-the-dementia-tax-a-plan-to-make-money-for-theresa-may-and-her-husband/
Retirement planning is a key part of the Tory manifesto. Mainly Theresa May's planning for her own very comfortable retirement.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: horlock07 on Monday, May 22, 2017, 12:51:49
Phillip May is CEO of a company with a 30% market share in house equity insurance.

http://voxpoliticalonline.com/2017/05/21/is-the-dementia-tax-a-plan-to-make-money-for-theresa-may-and-her-husband/

He will be very peeved as she has now contradicted everything that was said over the weekend and suggested that a cap will be imposed....

So that's what strong and stable looks like.

In other news she has also suggested this morning that one should vote for her as a new government would not have time to be prepared for the negotiations with the EU, they are getting evermore rattled....


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Simon Pieman on Monday, May 22, 2017, 13:27:05
He will be very peeved as she has now contradicted everything that was said over the weekend and suggested that a cap will be imposed....

So that's what strong and stable looks like.

In other news she has also suggested this morning that one should vote for her as a new government would not have time to be prepared for the negotiations with the EU, they are getting evermore rattled....

The section of the manifesto dealing with data collection, protection and the way the internet will be regulated directly by a Tory government contradict each other.

As if being able to monitor our browsing history and pass it over to practically every central agency the government could think of wasn't enough, they would now like to censor what we can read or view.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: michael on Monday, May 22, 2017, 13:50:34
He will be very peeved as she has now contradicted everything that was said over the weekend and suggested that a cap will be imposed....

So that's what strong and stable looks like.

In other news she has also suggested this morning that one should vote for her as a new government would not have time to be prepared for the negotiations with the EU, they are getting evermore rattled....

Part of the Tory Brexit negotiating team will be Boris Johnson, the same bloke who was heavily involved in West Ham getting use of the Olympic stadium from the state for barely anything. Alongside him will be Liam Fox, and David Davis.

Labour on the other hand will have ex QC and barrister Keir Starmer.

I know who I would prefer to have negotiating on our behalf.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: RedRag on Monday, May 22, 2017, 14:18:18
May:  You don't know what you're doing

1   The Social Care with a "cap" on contributions-approach is suddenly replaced by a "base" for what you're left with and then equally days later suddenly reversed to a "base" and "cap" combo approach.
2   Probate (so called) fees are CONFIRMED to increase from a flat GBP155 to up to GBP 20,000 on the day the election is called and the next day the confirmation is withdrawn
3   National Insurance contributions are introduced for the self employed in the Budget, defended and then withdrawn 7 days later
4   May supports Remaining in the EU and then adopts Leave rhetoric

She is a very silly and secretive opportunist who coins policies as she goes along, often with inner cliques to the surprise of other ministers and MPs, and who is then forced to back down when they are not workable and repels even her own voters.

Stable she is not and she has done more U turns in a few months than tory role model Maggie Thatcher did in a decade.  She is neither strong, nor stable and hasn't an original idea in her head - even the Energy policy was Milliband's.



Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: horlock07 on Monday, May 22, 2017, 16:49:22
Polls can be funny old things, but really??

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/labour-poll-wales-general-election-2017-16-point-shift-swing-a7749786.html


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Simon Pieman on Monday, May 22, 2017, 19:05:11
PM is on BBC now getting interviewed by Andrew Neil


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: herthab on Monday, May 22, 2017, 20:43:31
PM is on BBC now getting interviewed by Andrew Neil

Did he give her a tough time, or was it a snow job?


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Saxondale on Monday, May 22, 2017, 21:16:21
He gave her a tough time.  She was shit.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Simon Pieman on Monday, May 22, 2017, 23:39:49
Yep


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Arriba on Monday, May 22, 2017, 23:55:19
May is proving to be anything but strong and stable. I'm loving it as this is developing nicely.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Saxondale on Tuesday, May 23, 2017, 00:09:55
Next interview for Andrew Neil is Eddie Hitler / Paul Nuttall.

That should be entertaining.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: bamboonoshoe on Tuesday, May 23, 2017, 00:51:14
Next interview for Andrew Neil is Eddie Hitler / Paul Nuttall.

That should be entertaining.


Yep, Ade Edmondson must hate Nuttall


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: jayohaitchenn on Tuesday, May 23, 2017, 09:53:17
From unbeatable to unelectable in 3 weeks. That is impressive.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Chubbs on Tuesday, May 23, 2017, 10:06:22
But guys, Nothing has changed!

Its very clear why she didn't want to do any live debates.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: jayohaitchenn on Tuesday, May 23, 2017, 10:09:02
Can you imagine her going up against Juncker and Merkel? It'd be David Brentesque to watch.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: skiptotheLouMacari on Tuesday, May 23, 2017, 10:23:46
Still very much undecided. Unsure where Labour will pull the money from to offset all the freebies on offer but also I despise the idea of using my home to pay for my future health care. There doesn't seem to be any credible options, I'll just hit the pub instead.  :pint:


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: horlock07 on Tuesday, May 23, 2017, 10:39:32
Still very much undecided. Unsure where Labour will pull the money from to offset all the freebies on offer but also I despise the idea of using my home to pay for my future health care. There doesn't seem to be any credible options, I'll just hit the pub instead.  :pint:

The Labour manifesto includes a break down of where the money will be raised from, obviously its highly unlikely to be entirely accurate but goes somewhat further than the Tories/Theresa's which makes few promises and suggests that details will only be provided after you have voted her into power...


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: pauld on Tuesday, May 23, 2017, 10:45:00
The Labour manifesto includes a break down of where the money will be raised from, obviously its highly unlikely to be entirely accurate but goes somewhat further than the Tories/Theresa's which makes few promises and suggests that details will only be provided after you have voted her into power...
Come on horlock that's not fair. We know where the money will come from to pay for what the Tories want to do, it will come from the old, the sick and the vulnerable like it always does.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: horlock07 on Tuesday, May 23, 2017, 11:59:47
Come on horlock that's not fair. We know where the money will come from to pay for what the Tories want to do, it will come from the old, the sick and the vulnerable like it always does.

That's a dreadful slur, you ignore all the good work Theresa is doing for the old, the sick and the vulnerable like trying to facilitate the return of fox hunting and removing the ban on the ivory trade. They really are the party for the working classes....


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Power to people on Tuesday, May 23, 2017, 12:55:27
That's a dreadful slur, you ignore all the good work Theresa is doing for the old, the sick and the vulnerable like trying to facilitate the return of fox hunting and removing the ban on the ivory trade. They really are the party for the working classes....

Dont forget about taking their houses and savings a well


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: mystical_goat on Tuesday, May 23, 2017, 17:31:55
My postal vote has arrived but I am torn between a principled or tactical one at the moment, with principled currently swaying it.

The local standings here are something like 47% Lib Dem, 35% Tory and 14% Labour. A vote for my desired Labour is pretty much wasted, but not sure I can bring myself to go Lib Dem after their capitulation and u-turns on fundamental policy in the coalition.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: horlock07 on Tuesday, May 23, 2017, 17:42:18
My postal vote has arrived but I am torn between a principled or tactical one at the moment, with principled currently swaying it.

The local standings here are something like 47% Lib Dem, 35% Tory and 14% Labour. A vote for my desired Labour is pretty much wasted, but not sure I can bring myself to go Lib Dem after their capitulation and u-turns on fundamental policy in the coalition.

Unless Labour have a chance of really swinging it (and after the last few days who knows) if you don't want to help the Tory steam roller I think that's a bit of a no brainer...

In light of the coalition, just sit back and think what the Tories would have done for 5 additional years without someone to reign them in a bit?


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: jayohaitchenn on Tuesday, May 23, 2017, 18:02:05
I've been one of the biggest Labour cheerleaders and in that situation I would definitely vote Lib Dem. No point chancing it.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Batch on Tuesday, May 23, 2017, 19:00:14
Quote from: jayohaitchenn
I've been one of the biggest Labour cheerleaders and in that situation I would definitely vote Lib Dem. No point chancing it.
Indeed, got to play the system that we have.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Ardiles on Tuesday, May 23, 2017, 22:51:43
The Lib Dems receive way too much flak for the compromises they made in coalition.  Other democracies that are more used to the realities of coalition would accept these compromises with far less fuss.  The Lib Dems gave ground in some policy areas and shaped policy in others.  Criticism feels overblown to me.  I'd give them your vote.


Title: Re: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: horlock07 on Wednesday, May 24, 2017, 08:14:14
The Lib Dems receive way too much flak for the compromises they made in coalition.  Other democracies that are more used to the realities of coalition would accept these compromises with far less fuss.  The Lib Dems gave ground in some policy areas and shaped policy in others.  Criticism feels overblown to me.  I'd give them your vote.
I think it's become a handy excuse for closet Tories to vote Tory. I have at least one friend who we all know votes Tory and always has done but always makes a huge fuss that he hates what the Tories stand for, would never vote for Labour with Corbyn in charge and cannot trust the lib Dems so unfortunately he just has to vote Tory....

There is a lot of it about.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Batch on Wednesday, May 24, 2017, 10:09:16
The Lib Dems receive way too much flak for the compromises they made in coalition.  Other democracies that are more used to the realities of coalition would accept these compromises with far less fuss.  The Lib Dems gave ground in some policy areas and shaped policy in others.  Criticism feels overblown to me.  I'd give them your vote.

I don't agree, not raising tuition fees was an absolutely key reason I voted for them.

Last election I spoiled my paper as I couldn't find anyone representing enough of my views. You don't HAVE to vote for someone.

Frankly anyone not voting labour because "they don't like Corbyn" is a bit simple. Don't like his policies, fair enough.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: pauld on Wednesday, May 24, 2017, 10:26:45
Frankly anyone not voting labour because "they don't like Corbyn" is a bit simple. Don't like his policies, fair enough.
I think it's quite reasonable to not vote for a party because you don't like/trust the leader. I know we're electing a government not a president but the PM does have considerable power and if you think the PM is likely to be a bit shit, that seems to me to be a reasonable grounds to change your vote. My problem in this election is that none of the 3 look like credible leaders to me.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: horlock07 on Wednesday, May 24, 2017, 10:29:57
I think it's quite reasonable to not vote for a party because you don't like/trust the leader. I know we're electing a government not a president....

You might want to remind Theresa of that?


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Batch on Wednesday, May 24, 2017, 10:35:01
Not trusting is different from liking. Though I did have it in my head Horlock said his mate didn't like Corbyn. Which he didn't .

Not sure how anybody could trust May, whose (party's) arrogance was staggering and reflected in the manifesto and U-turn equally so.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: pauld on Wednesday, May 24, 2017, 10:41:32
Not trusting is different from liking. Though I did have it in my head Horlock said his mate didn't like Corbyn. Which he didn't .

Not sure how anybody could trust May, whose (party's) arrogance was staggering and reflected in the manifesto and U-turn equally so.
Oh I agree, although it's the incompetence that worries me more than the arrogance. But I also understand why lots of people feel equal misgivings about Corbyn, arguably because of a sustained hatchet job in the press, but even if you don't think it's well founded, he was always going to face that and doesn't seem to have the charisma or decisiveness to be able to overcome that handicap.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: horlock07 on Wednesday, May 24, 2017, 11:17:34
I don't agree, not raising tuition fees was an absolutely key reason I voted for them.

Last election I spoiled my paper as I couldn't find anyone representing enough of my views. You don't HAVE to vote for someone.

Frankly anyone not voting labour because "they don't like Corbyn" is a bit simple. Don't like his policies, fair enough.

Not making excuses for the Lib Dems, but parties have been breaking election and manifesto promises every parliament since year dot (for instance http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/labour-reveals-21-broken-promises-6537411 ), its just the case that this seems to be used as a stick to hit them with and a reason not to vote for them considerably more than with other parties?


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Chubbs on Wednesday, May 24, 2017, 11:20:12
Whilst the conspiracy theories accusing May of being behind the attacks in Manchester are nothing short of ridiculous, I do feel that it will cause some of the " yet undecided" voters to distance themselves from Corbyns slightly more relaxed immigration policy.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: skiptotheLouMacari on Wednesday, May 24, 2017, 11:38:41
I don't agree, not raising tuition fees was an absolutely key reason I voted for them.

Last election I spoiled my paper as I couldn't find anyone representing enough of my views. You don't HAVE to vote for someone.

Frankly anyone not voting labour because "they don't like Corbyn" is a bit simple. Don't like his policies, fair enough.

I can't stand Corbyn, however the policies Labour have put forward are the best option. He along with Abbott and Mcdonald are stopping me voting labour.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: horlock07 on Wednesday, May 24, 2017, 12:00:07
Whilst the conspiracy theories accusing May of being behind the attacks in Manchester are nothing short of ridiculous, I do feel that it will cause some of the " yet undecided" voters to distance themselves from Corbyns slightly more relaxed immigration policy.

I haven't seen the theories but human beings love a conspiracy don't they!

I must confess my cynical nature does think that this will help the Tories, being spun as the party to control such matters despite it happening on their watch..... People will link immigration to EU immigration which is totally irrelevant in this case.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Arriba on Wednesday, May 24, 2017, 12:02:21
I haven't seen the theories but human beings love a conspiracy don't they!

I must confess my cynical nature does think that this will help the Tories, being spun as the party to control such matters despite it happening on their watch..... People will link immigration to EU immigration which is totally irrelevant in this case.

Which highlights how stupid people are. The same sort who think Corbyn is an IRA supporter.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Abrahammer on Wednesday, May 24, 2017, 12:09:39
I have no doubt whatsoever that our old friend Dosser will think it's a conspiracy.

Corbyn has brought the IRA issue on himself, could have been swiftly dealt with


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: RedRag on Wednesday, May 24, 2017, 12:47:28
in security terms, a failure to reach an agreement would mean our co-operation in the fight against crime and terrorism would be weakened

Theresa May making a link between getting a trade agreement with the EU and co-operation on terrorism in her Article 50 letter to the EU. 

Perhaps she would care to explain what she meant?


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: RedRag on Wednesday, May 24, 2017, 12:57:56
I can't stand Corbyn, however the policies Labour have put forward are the best option. He along with Abbott and Mcdonald are stopping me voting labour.
You're right.  This holy trinity are effective political operators (and share some decent values) but they are rooted in 70s thinking and their superannuated political baggage is a joke making them a sitting target for the Tory press as well as the tiresome but effective "May" election campaign.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: bamboonoshoe on Wednesday, May 24, 2017, 13:43:17
You're right.  This holy trinity are effective political operators (and share some decent values) but they are rooted in 70s thinking and their superannuated political baggage is a joke making them a sitting target for Tory nearly all thepress as well as the tiresome but effective "May" election campaign.


Apologies but couldn't resist the correction.

Tbh, Abbott made one error on figures on TV. How many errors has May/Hunt/Boris/etc made? Labour make one error and every cunt jumps on it.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Christy on Wednesday, May 24, 2017, 14:00:18
I can't stand Corbyn, however the policies Labour have put forward are the best option. He along with Abbott and Mcdonald are stopping me voting labour.

Whilst I understand where you're coming from, Theresa May is as tight as 1/20 on to be Prime Minister.  So unless you live in their constituencies, Corbyn and co will not be troubling you. 

The difference between a terrifying, unchecked huge Tory majority, and a much smaller one will be significant...I'd be advocating any decent local candidate best placed to dent that majority.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: bamboonoshoe on Wednesday, May 24, 2017, 14:01:45
I haven't seen the theories but human beings love a conspiracy don't they!

I must confess my cynical nature does think that this will help the Tories, being spun as the party to control such matters despite it happening on their watch..... People will link immigration to EU immigration which is totally irrelevant in this case.

One thing that gets me is this "an I.D was found"  This seems to happen all the time. The Berlin attack, they "found" an I.D card. The same in Manchester. Now i'm not being funny but, if we were to blow ourselves up, there's little chance of your i.D surviving and then even more greatly, why would you take your I.D with you anyway? What if you got foiled and were arrested? What if you survived the impact (re:Berlin) and fled? It's nonsensical, people who say "They wanted to be known" bullshit. They aren't thinking "oh i'll just put my I.D down over here conveniently for someone to find, because after all i'm a member of a small terrorist group. They'll write a wonderful obituary."

Sorry, those things always give me red flag and that's where questions need to be asked. Damage limitation and all that but it wouldn't surprise me if their were higher power working to control the masses. These things always happen when the powers are starting to lose their grip on control and another "manufactured bad thing" happens.

Of course it is absolutely terrible for all the people involved directly that have lost lives. Whether a generated act of terror or a manufactured plot by something else, the targeting of a group of people whose demographic was mainly children is a very big low.

If the so called guy was known to security services, why weren't they monitoring him and tracking his every move? This makes me feel like a broken record because the same questions get asked every single time. You don't wait for something terrible to happen then make the capture. Yes it's difficult to arrest but if you are a top end authority with higher powers than the police and you suspect a terror plot then you detain them. Furthermore you keep them under 24/7 surveillance and put them into a new society where the temptations are not as strong. i.e not a fucking big city. You have them limited to travel curfews and other restrictions until they can prove that they have been "unradicalised" if you must.

That is of course if it isn't a cover up.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: pauld on Wednesday, May 24, 2017, 14:14:07
If the so called guy was known to security services, why weren't they monitoring him and tracking his every move? This makes me feel like a broken record because the same questions get asked every single time. You don't wait for something terrible to happen then make the capture. Yes it's difficult to arrest but if you are a top end authority with higher powers than the police and you suspect a terror plot then you detain them. Furthermore you keep them under 24/7 surveillance and put them into a new society where the temptations are not as strong. i.e not a fucking big city. You have them limited to travel curfews and other restrictions until they can prove that they have been "unradicalised" if you must.
F**k me, it's Katie Hopkins :) Can't believe you're seriously suggesting this but, leaving aside the dismantling of democracy/rule of law that would involve, it just won't work. Because there's 1000s of perfectly innocent people who have strayed across the radar of the police and security services, because they went to a meeting out of curiosity, or had a mate who was radicalised (but weren't themselves), or attended a mosque that unwittingly played host to a radical cleric. You can't arrest/restrict all of these people, unless you're seriously advocating mass internment of 1000s of innocent people? Even if you do want to abandon the whole concept of rule of law in a free society (which would utterly delight ISIS/AQ), you only need to look at how badly the much smaller scale internment of Republicans backfired in N Ireland in the 70s to see it's just plain counter productive.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: skiptotheLouMacari on Wednesday, May 24, 2017, 15:05:28
One thing that gets me is this "an I.D was found"  This seems to happen all the time. The Berlin attack, they "found" an I.D card. The same in Manchester. Now i'm not being funny but, if we were to blow ourselves up, there's little chance of your i.D surviving and then even more greatly, why would you take your I.D with you anyway? What if you got foiled and were arrested? What if you survived the impact (re:Berlin) and fled? It's nonsensical, people who say "They wanted to be known" bullshit. They aren't thinking "oh i'll just put my I.D down over here conveniently for someone to find, because after all i'm a member of a small terrorist group. They'll write a wonderful obituary."

Sorry, those things always give me red flag and that's where questions need to be asked. Damage limitation and all that but it wouldn't surprise me if their were higher power working to control the masses. These things always happen when the powers are starting to lose their grip on control and another "manufactured bad thing" happens.

Of course it is absolutely terrible for all the people involved directly that have lost lives. Whether a generated act of terror or a manufactured plot by something else, the targeting of a group of people whose demographic was mainly children is a very big low.

If the so called guy was known to security services, why weren't they monitoring him and tracking his every move? This makes me feel like a broken record because the same questions get asked every single time. You don't wait for something terrible to happen then make the capture. Yes it's difficult to arrest but if you are a top end authority with higher powers than the police and you suspect a terror plot then you detain them. Furthermore you keep them under 24/7 surveillance and put them into a new society where the temptations are not as strong. i.e not a fucking big city. You have them limited to travel curfews and other restrictions until they can prove that they have been "unradicalised" if you must.

That is of course if it isn't a cover up.

ID is carried for allowing access to the afterlife and the virgins that are waiting for them.
On the radio today they said there are 600+ people on the watch list, how do we monitor that many people movements 24/7?
I'm not a trump supporter but don't you think his comments "if a bag of skittles had one poisonous one that would kill you in it, would you buy the bag" have any sort of reasoning? Who are we allowing across our border?


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: horlock07 on Wednesday, May 24, 2017, 15:11:11
Who are we allowing across our border?

As he was born here that's not really relevant in this case,too many seem to think that leaving the EU will reduce immigration from the Asian sub-continent but the two are entirely unrelated. You will have to remind me who was the long serving Home Secretary recently who singularly failed to make any impact upon immigration levels, yet we are supposed to believe what she says now?


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: pauld on Wednesday, May 24, 2017, 15:18:42
ID is carried for allowing access to the afterlife and the virgins that are waiting for them.
I'm not fully up on the doctrine, but I'm pretty sure they don't do ID checks at the gates of the afterlife :)
On the radio today they said there are 600+ people on the watch list, how do we monitor that many people movements 24/7?
More like 6000 but your point is still (all the more) valid


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: horlock07 on Wednesday, May 24, 2017, 15:52:31
One thing that gets me is this "an I.D was found"  This seems to happen all the time. The Berlin attack, they "found" an I.D card. The same in Manchester.

Is that how they identified in Manchester, not seen it reported? It does seem odd that they knew so quickly who did it, yet nearly 2 days after the event potential victims are still missing, despite the police having spoken to all the relatives of both the deceased and those in hospital?


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: pauld on Wednesday, May 24, 2017, 15:56:03
Is that how they identified in Manchester, not seen it reported?
US media reporting (thanks to US intel leaking like a sieve) that he had a bank card in his pocket. Which unless you've gone out of your way to clean yourself of ID, most of us would.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: horlock07 on Wednesday, May 24, 2017, 15:59:06
US media reporting (thanks to US intel leaking like a sieve) that he had a bank card in his pocket. Which unless you've gone out of your way to clean yourself of ID, most of us would.

And survived despite being immediately adjacent to a bomb going off?

In terms of monitoring those on the list, the fact that a lad popping back and forth to Libya and Syria doesn't seem to be getting much surveillance does worry, and its not going to get any better http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/police-cuts-policy-amber-rudd-tories-conservatives-election-2017-labour-officers-a7712646.html


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: pauld on Wednesday, May 24, 2017, 16:05:24
And survived despite being immediately adjacent to a bomb going off?
Yes. People always assume that anything immediately adjacent to an explosion is obliterated but it's rarely the case. People will be killed by the blast and objects broken up obviously but they're not obliterated. There's shit loads of examples/data about it.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: horlock07 on Wednesday, May 24, 2017, 16:13:45
Yes. People always assume that anything immediately adjacent to an explosion is obliterated but it's rarely the case. People will be killed by the blast and objects broken up obviously but they're not obliterated. There's shit loads of examples/data about it.

Watch it, with that level of knowledge you will have MI5 round...

For the record I am not a conspiracy theorist, although I know of at least one case in the UK where the public account given by the government is bollocks and the conspiracy theorists are not a million miles away.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: pauld on Wednesday, May 24, 2017, 16:31:52
Watch it, with that level of knowledge you will have MI5 round...

For the record I am not a conspiracy theorist, although I know of at least one case in the UK where the public account given by the government is bollocks and the conspiracy theorists are not a million miles away.
Oh I'm quite sure there's loads but there's also far more examples of bollocks conspiracy theories, usually put out by people with their own agenda to push (not you/anyone here btw). I tend to the view of going for least complex/most likely explanation first.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: pauld on Wednesday, May 24, 2017, 16:32:42
Watch it, with that level of knowledge you will have MI5 round...
Think I read it in the Telegraph initially IIRC. So it was probably them that put that in there in the 1st place :)


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Flashheart on Wednesday, May 24, 2017, 16:46:06
One can easily imagine how a card would get little to no damage.

A body would provide resistance to the energy of a blast and absorb a lot of that energy. A card could just get blown away. I expect our resident fireman would know more.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: skiptotheLouMacari on Wednesday, May 24, 2017, 16:58:17
I'm not fully up on the doctrine, but I'm pretty sure they don't do ID checks at the gates of the afterlife :)

No we all know they don't check your credentials at the pearly gates, but neither are an untold number of Virgins stood waiting for you.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: skiptotheLouMacari on Wednesday, May 24, 2017, 17:02:48
As he was born here that's not really relevant in this case,too many seem to think that leaving the EU will reduce immigration from the Asian sub continent.

No, not at all. He is one of many home grown fundamentalists, but where do we draw the line?


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: bamboonoshoe on Wednesday, May 24, 2017, 18:02:41
Whilst  I agree an I.D card may not necessarily blow into tiny pieces on impact, the heat generated from the blast would be enough to melt the card seeing as molten metal from shrapnel was found at the scene (nails, nuts, bolts etc) but hey, i'm not getting into ballistics and hydrodynamics here.

The point that seems to be being missed altogether is "Why would you take I.D to an organised terror attempt?" especially as you would be given a heads up likely some time before the date. I hardly think they organise these things in a way that goes something like;

  "Hey Jonny, in 2hrs can you do me a favour?"
"yes mate, what's that?"
  "Suicide job mate"
"Oh yeah no probs. Got to nip to Dominos first and pay on my card, then i'll nip down."
  "Cool beans. Don't forget your Driving licence, they sometimes ask for I.D"
"Oh cheers man. Thanks for the heads up. You're too good to me"

That's the point, why on earth would you. While a "trademark" may be left, similarly with say murderers but they never leave their I.D at the scene...

....unless they're completely stupid or ridiculously narcissistic but even then.


PaulD, anyone but Katie Hopkins man. ;) FWIW i'm very pro immigration and tbh democracy is  being dismantled by the Tories as we speak  :soapy tit wank: :pint:


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Flashheart on Wednesday, May 24, 2017, 18:10:56
Why would they not carry ID? It's not as though they have to worry about being caught. I expect in some countries being stopped and not having idea could really fuck up a suicide bomber's plans. They're going to be identified one way or another before long anyway.

In this case it wasn't even actual ID, but a bank card from which he could be identified.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: skiptotheLouMacari on Wednesday, May 24, 2017, 18:30:05
Whilst  I agree an I.D card may not necessarily blow into tiny pieces on impact, the heat generated from the blast would be enough to melt the card seeing as molten metal from shrapnel was found at the scene (nails, nuts, bolts etc) but hey, i'm not getting into ballistics and hydrodynamics here.

The point that seems to be being missed altogether is "Why would you take I.D to an organised terror attempt?" especially as you would be given a heads up likely some time before the date. I hardly think they organise these things in a way that goes something like;

  "Hey Jonny, in 2hrs can you do me a favour?"
"yes mate, what's that?"
  "Suicide job mate"
"Oh yeah no probs. Got to nip to Dominos first and pay on my card, then i'll nip down."
  "Cool beans. Don't forget your Driving licence, they sometimes ask for I.D"
"Oh cheers man. Thanks for the heads up. You're too good to me"

That's the point, why on earth would you. While a "trademark" may be left, similarly with say murderers but they never leave their I.D at the scene...

....unless they're completely stupid or ridiculously narcissistic but even then.


PaulD, anyone but Katie Hopkins man. ;) FWIW i'm very pro immigration and tbh democracy is  being dismantled by the Tories as we speak  :soapy tit wank: :pint:

These aren't typical murderers, they're happy to be named and shamed after the event. It's two fingers to the establishment who didn't track them or know the plan.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Flashheart on Wednesday, May 24, 2017, 18:32:17
I'd go further and suggest they might want to be identified. They think they're martyrs. Heros, even.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: bamboonoshoe on Wednesday, May 24, 2017, 18:32:55
Why would they not carry ID? It's not as though they have to worry about being caught. I expect in some countries being stopped and not having idea could really fuck up a suicide bomber's plans. They're going to be identified one way or another before long anyway.

In this case it wasn't even actual ID, but a bank card from which he could be identified.

Very much so. If the plot is foiled, they don't go through with it or a malfunction. Being nation specific re: ID. It's not obligatory to carry I.D with you in the U.K. By I.D I mean anything with your name on. Fuck me, we going to find out he'd has his Gala Bingo card on him and won £250 the night before (i'm being a tit). It's not obligatory here, so that is the point i'm making.

Granted they may be identified at some point but even dental records probably wouldn't help as many people aren't even registered. They know who it is more so because the services knew that this guy was going to do it. That's the saddest thing in this all.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: bamboonoshoe on Wednesday, May 24, 2017, 18:35:07
I'd go further and suggest they might want to be identified. They think they're martyrs. Heros, even.

Granted; and while there is evidence in cases to suggest this. I also think it's is more glamourised than the actual reality of it. Some films and dramas don't really help this.


Title: Re:
Post by: horlock07 on Wednesday, May 24, 2017, 18:37:44
Whilst I hate to add to the conspiracy, if there is a network as Mrs Rudd suggests would it not lesson the chance of the wider group being quickly rumbled if the bomber does not make himself readily identifiable?

It's being suggested that various members of the community had reported their fears in the past directly to the police which doesn't say much for the monitoring, although will piss off a lot of those who like to roll out the line that the community are involved if they don't report radicalisation?

Who knows, although on a related issue I do wonder whether seeing armed troops in downing Street has rather more to do with Mrs Mays authoritarian fantasy than an operational need?

Sent from my Hudl 2


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Flashheart on Wednesday, May 24, 2017, 18:40:01
Very much so. If the plot is foiled, they don't go through with it or a malfunction.

If they don't go through with it, having ID is not a problem. If the plot is foiled, then having ID is the last of their problems. The ID will be on their person, the only way the authorities will see it is if they're nicked. In which case they're fucked regardless.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Flashheart on Wednesday, May 24, 2017, 18:41:24
Being nation specific re: ID. It's not obligatory to carry I.D with you in the U.K. By I.D I mean anything with your name on. Fuck me, we going to find out he'd has his Gala Bingo card on him and won £250 the night before (i'm being a tit). It's not obligatory here, so that is the point i'm making.


He...wasn't...carrying...ID.

He was carrying bank card. You can be identified by a bank card.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: chalkies_shorts on Wednesday, May 24, 2017, 18:42:28
I think there is a case to round up all of those on the watch lists and set up a British Guantanemo Bay.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: bamboonoshoe on Wednesday, May 24, 2017, 18:44:45
He...wasn't...carrying...ID.

He was carrying bank card. You can be identified by a bank card.

I think you need to re-read my previous post you just quoted....for the purposes of I.D....I.D shall be known as...ANYTHING with your NAME on. Come on  :pint:


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Flashheart on Wednesday, May 24, 2017, 18:52:29
A bank card is not for the purpose if ID though. It's for the purpose of getting money out.

It's not a great leap in logic to realise that he may have just wanted it to get money. It's what they're for. I think you're trying to read into something that just isn't there. Had he been deliberately carrying some completely unnecessary form of ID then there might be something to ponder. He wasn't though, it was just a bank card.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Flashheart on Wednesday, May 24, 2017, 18:54:37
This isn't even a good conspiracy theory, and I love conspiracy theories.


Title: Re: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: horlock07 on Wednesday, May 24, 2017, 18:55:56
I think there is a case to round up all of those on the watch lists and set up a British Guantanemo Bay.
I am sure that there are cheaper ways for us to recruit on behalf of ISIS?


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: chalkies_shorts on Wednesday, May 24, 2017, 19:05:16
I am sure that there are cheaper ways for us to recruit on behalf of ISIS?
It seems pretty cheap at the moment


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: bamboonoshoe on Wednesday, May 24, 2017, 19:07:06
A bank card is not for the purpose if ID though. It's for the purpose of getting money out.

It's not a great leap in logic to realise that he may have just wanted it to get money. It's what they're for. I think you're trying to read into something that just isn't there. Had he been deliberately carrying some completely unnecessary form of ID then there might be something to ponder. He wasn't though, it was just a bank card.

No it's not for the purpose of I.D in the everyday sense (although I can collect my parcels from the P.O and collect tickets with it). I think we're going round in circles here....I'm saying why the fuck would you have anything with your name on if your sole purpose is to blow people up. It's not like they're going to do their weekly shop in tescos (or Lidl) beforehand or even draw out £50 because that would be totally logical...

Btw, it isn't a conspiracy theory. I didn't infer that. There are much better things to make conspiracies out of.

When I say "why would he have anything with his name on?" He may well have all the I.D bank cards and documents at home, but not on the person on the day that you are going to execute terror.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Flashheart on Wednesday, May 24, 2017, 19:08:04
I give up.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: bamboonoshoe on Wednesday, May 24, 2017, 19:09:13
I give up.

Yeah I fucking give up too. Anyway, is our new manager here yet?!


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: skiptotheLouMacari on Wednesday, May 24, 2017, 20:07:33
I'd go further and suggest they might want to be identified. They think they're martyrs. Heros, even.

100% This


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: skiptotheLouMacari on Wednesday, May 24, 2017, 20:10:29
I think there is a case to round up all of those on the watch lists and set up a British Guantanemo Bay.

Fucking right, spot on!


Title: Re: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: skiptotheLouMacari on Wednesday, May 24, 2017, 20:13:07
I am sure that there are cheaper ways for us to recruit on behalf of ISIS?

No, anyone associated with the use of terror should be interned indefinitely, fuck human rights they lost that right many moons ago


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: skiptotheLouMacari on Wednesday, May 24, 2017, 20:15:14
No it's not for the purpose of I.D in the everyday sense (although I can collect my parcels from the P.O and collect tickets with it). I think we're going round in circles here....I'm saying why the fuck would you have anything with your name on if your sole purpose is to blow people up. It's not like they're going to do their weekly shop in tescos (or Lidl) beforehand or even draw out £50 because that would be totally logical...

Btw, it isn't a conspiracy theory. I didn't infer that. There are much better things to make conspiracies out of.

When I say "why would he have anything with his name on?" He may well have all the I.D bank cards and documents at home, but not on the person on the day that you are going to execute terror.

Martyrdom that's why they carry it. Afterlife riches and easy passage to sit at the side of Allah


Title: Re: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Legends-Lounge on Wednesday, May 24, 2017, 20:45:20
No, anyone associated with the use of terror should be interned indefinitely, fuck human rights they lost that right many moons ago
Here here


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: pauld on Wednesday, May 24, 2017, 21:20:09
I think there is a case to round up all of those on the watch lists and set up a British Guantanemo Bay.
There's 1000s being "watched" in some way or another, most have done nothing wrong, by the very nature of it - the police will look at someone they think is dangerous and then look at his family, friends. associates etc. They'll all get looked at, they'll all be on a list. Which makes good policing sense, and no harm done until you start presuming guilt purely on that basis. What you're proposing is locking up without trial (or even much evidence) 1000s of people, most of whom will be innocent


Title: Re: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: StfcRusty on Wednesday, May 24, 2017, 21:27:32
Here here

"Hear, hear", it's "hear, hear" albeit "shame, shame" would be my choice of response


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: chalkies_shorts on Wednesday, May 24, 2017, 21:27:59
There's 1000s being "watched" in some way or another, most have done nothing wrong, by the very nature of it - the police will look at someone they think is dangerous and then look at his family, friends. associates etc. They'll all get looked at, they'll all be on a list. Which makes good policing sense, and no harm done until you start presuming guilt purely on that basis. What you're proposing is locking up without trial (or even much evidence) 1000s of people, most of whom will be innocent
The Muslim community are doing their bit. They are bringing these nutters to the attention of the authorities but there are too many to keep a proper eye on. If it means thousands then so be it. If they are innocent then they go.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: pauld on Wednesday, May 24, 2017, 21:31:31
The Muslim community are doing their bit. They are bringing these nutters to the attention of the authorities but there are too many to keep a proper eye on. If it means thousands then so be it. If they are innocent then they go.
You're missing the point, it's not just people who are actively under suspicion who get on a watch list. Friends/family/associates/work colleagues all get looked at, that's why there's thousands there. Which, as I say, makes sense from a policing/intelligence-gathering perspective, very different matter if you're proposing internment without trial on that basis (leaving aside the implications for any concept of a free society of doing so)


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: chalkies_shorts on Wednesday, May 24, 2017, 21:38:16
You're missing the point, it's not just people who are actively under suspicion who get on a watch list. Friends/family/associates/work colleagues all get looked at, that's why there's thousands there. Which, as I say, makes sense from a policing/intelligence-gathering perspective, very different matter if you're proposing internment without trial on that basis (leaving aside the implications for any concept of a free society of doing so)
But you have the person of interest. These are the ones I would lock up....and yes without trial initially. I wouldn't have any qualms about it at all. You can still be a free and tolerant society.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: pauld on Wednesday, May 24, 2017, 21:42:31
But you have the person of interest. These are the ones I would lock up....and yes without trial initially. I wouldn't have any qualms about it at all. You can still be a free and tolerant society.
Well, that's just a case of arresting them and charging them with something. It's called being on remand.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: chalkies_shorts on Wednesday, May 24, 2017, 21:50:00
Well, that's just a case of arresting them and charging them with something. It's called being on remand.
Get them off the street. Keep them away from their mates. There are too many of these fucking wankers sticking 2 fingers up at us. Take them out of action. I would do the same for IRA, unionists, animal liberation etc. The burden of proof would be significantly lower than now. These people have no respect for others. I have no respect for their rights.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: pauld on Wednesday, May 24, 2017, 21:56:26
Get them off the street. Keep them away from their mates. There are too many of these fucking wankers sticking 2 fingers up at us. Take them out of action. I would do the same for IRA
We did it for the IRA, or people the police or army said might be IRA, in the 1970s. Of course most weren't but hundreds of young Catholics were interned and a whole generation of youth was radicalised as a result. It was widely described by both the IRA leadership and, later, British politicians as "the best recruiting sergeant the IRA ever had"


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: chalkies_shorts on Wednesday, May 24, 2017, 22:08:38
They don't seem to have a problem with recruitment


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Johnny Reeves on Wednesday, May 24, 2017, 23:00:35
Here here,whoops hear hear


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Nemo on Thursday, May 25, 2017, 08:10:03
I don't think too many people would object to the general principle of locking up proper wrong 'uns. The problem is that you have to trust both the police and government to a) be competent enough to get the right people and b) moral enough not to misuse the powers

As basically no government in history has been both psychic and without corruption, having to actyally charge someone with a crime to lock them up beyond an initial term is a sensible check and balance against a totalitarian state. The police already have significant powers under various terrorism acts to detain people without trial and keep them under surveillance that go beyond what is available in most western countries.

Ultimately these kind of attacks are fucking awful, but a huge part of why we find them so shocking is that they are very, very rare. Our police and security services for the most part do an excellent job, and whilst it's basically impossible to stop anyone slipping through the net, instituting a draconian police state is probably not going to help (I wouldn't have used the qualifier, but it's hard to judge) and, if we accept that in the main these attacks are done as much to scare the populace (hence terrorism) as they are to kill and maim the direct victims, then a sign that these attacks are successful. I can't imagine that would do anything other than encourage more absolute pricks.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Pax Romana on Thursday, May 25, 2017, 08:25:07
Agreed.  There is a real risk of "Dangerous Dogs" syndrome here.

With a bit of luck UKIP will ride to the rescue.  Apparently their manifesto (sic) is due out today.  It will doubtless be so revolting in it's extreme excesses that it will help the rest of us to pause and reflect whether we really want to play the terrorist's game for them.

Hopefully UKIP's last contribution to the country they love so much before they disappear down the toilet.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Peter Venkman on Thursday, May 25, 2017, 08:39:02
Hopefully UKIP's last contribution to the country they love so much before they disappear down the toilet.
Absolutely.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: pauld on Thursday, May 25, 2017, 08:49:26
Hopefully UKIP's last contribution to the country they love so much before they disappear down the toilet.
UKIP are a symptom. Until the mainstream political parties address the issues that make UKIP appeal to a substantial part of the electorate, those problems will not go away. They may well get flushed but they will just be replaced, probably by Farage/Banks' UKIP 2.0 (Patriotic Alliance, IIRC, was their working title) which will be slicker, better funded and well rehearsed having had one to go to practice. So it won't be the end if UKIP ends, v 2 could be even more dangerous if anything. If mainstream politics wants to see the back of hard right populism, mainstream politicians need to stop ignoring the people who are voting for them and understand why they are voting for them


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: horlock07 on Thursday, May 25, 2017, 15:59:33
UKIP are a symptom. Until the mainstream political parties address the issues that make UKIP appeal to a substantial part of the electorate, those problems will not go away.

To be fair Bluekip are having a darn good go as per Mrs May and Rudds conference speeches...


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: horlock07 on Thursday, May 25, 2017, 16:51:38
. It was widely described by both the IRA leadership and, later, British politicians as "the best recruiting sergeant the IRA ever had"

I thought that was Jeremy Corbyn - according to the Sun, and via a known fantasist within the IRA....


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: horlock07 on Thursday, May 25, 2017, 17:38:19
Can someone summarise the UKIP manifesto like all the others, I have scan read it so far and generally seems to be along the lines of them stopping and solving everything that the Mail and Express say is wrong with the UK.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Pax Romana on Thursday, May 25, 2017, 17:41:47
Can someone summarise the UKIP manifesto like all the others, I have scan read it so far and generally seems to be along the lines of them stopping and solving everything that the Mail and Express say is wrong with the UK.

You're being far too simplistic as usual.  It's the Mail, Express and the Star


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: horlock07 on Thursday, May 25, 2017, 17:49:47
You're being far too simplistic as usual.  It's the Mail, Express and the Star

I must confess I haven't read the Star in years, I though it was all just tits now?


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Reg Smeeton on Thursday, May 25, 2017, 17:56:45
I must confess I haven't read the Star in years, I though it was all just tits now?

Is it still going. You're probably thinking of The Sport, or was it just Sunday Sport  :hmmm:


Title: Re: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: horlock07 on Thursday, May 25, 2017, 18:34:00
Is it still going. You're probably thinking of The Sport, or was it just Sunday Sport  :hmmm:
Definitely still going, think it's part of the dirty Desmond stable. When I commuted into Manchester every morning a suited very respectable guy always used to buy the star and times each day tits and respectability!

Sent from my Hudl 2


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: pauld on Thursday, May 25, 2017, 18:45:01
To be fair Bluekip are having a darn good go as per Mrs May and Rudds conference speeches...
That's not addressing the root causes, that's pandering to the symptoms and the worst instincts of their own hard right factions.


Title: Re:
Post by: horlock07 on Thursday, May 25, 2017, 19:04:09
Had a closer look at the ukip manifesto, delighted to see them opening the door and explicitly providing the mechanism for a second EU referendum, common sense finally prevails.

Sent from my Hudl 2


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Pax Romana on Friday, May 26, 2017, 08:49:50
Q.  Is Corbyn right that embarking on foreign military adventures with simplistic goals to remove dictators without thinking through what you put in their place creates a power vacuum that causes untold misery for the people of that country and on balance is more likely than not to encourage Uk-based terrorism?
A.  Yes

Q.  Will the right-wing media provide an in depth analysis of that viewpoint or instead gleefully go for a "Corbyn undermines our lads in the armed forces and supports terrorists" headline?
A.  Oooh, tough one.

Q.  Will the average British swing voter read and consider Corbyn's speech in detail or simply glance at a lurid headline and make a snap judgement?
A.  Ooh, even tougher.

Q  Is it a good idea for Corbyn to make such a speech 2 weeks before a general election or instead should he stick to expressing the outrage and sympathy for the victims that he feels (like all of us) in order to increase his chances of leading the next government when he would actually be able to determine those military decisions in future?
A.  Depends on your point of view I guess.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: horlock07 on Friday, May 26, 2017, 09:22:38
So Mrs May's lead is cut to 5 points in the polls now which would give her a working majority of 2, things are getting very interesting (and highly amusing!)


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Batch on Friday, May 26, 2017, 09:34:11
don't believe the polls... have we learned nothing.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: horlock07 on Friday, May 26, 2017, 09:42:43
don't believe the polls... have we learned nothing.

I don't believe it in the slightest, although the fact it comes via the notoriously Tory biased YouGov will be setting some alarm bells ringing in Blukip HQ which is pleasing whatever the true position.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Batch on Friday, May 26, 2017, 10:18:35
true true


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: pauld on Friday, May 26, 2017, 10:47:22
don't believe the Poles...
racist


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: flammableBen on Friday, May 26, 2017, 11:20:16
I won't be better off under the tories and I'm not a cunt who wants to punish others; I'm not going to vote for them.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Batch on Friday, May 26, 2017, 11:40:54
sound reasoning


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Posh Red on Friday, May 26, 2017, 12:50:56
don't believe the polls... have we learned nothing.

I don't believe it in the slightest, although the fact it comes via the notoriously Tory biased YouGov

It's all a plan to make sure that Tory voters still get out and vote and don't think it's okay for them not to bother


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: horlock07 on Friday, May 26, 2017, 16:29:58
It's all a plan to make sure that Tory voters still get out and vote and don't think it's okay for them not to bother
I fear you may be right.....

In other news, Shirley some mistake....

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/b...e-ayman-asfari-petrofac-serious-a7751521.html


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: skiptotheLouMacari on Monday, May 29, 2017, 09:15:51
Shadow home secretary at it again.
This woman is a fucking liability and should not be involved in British politics.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2017-40076195


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Batch on Monday, May 29, 2017, 09:43:02
she really is a fucking idiot


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: chalkies_shorts on Monday, May 29, 2017, 10:05:11
Abbott​, thornberry and chakrabati - three true abominations of people. The first two, sneering at us the latter no morals. I'm warming to corbyn though.


Title: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Batch on Monday, May 29, 2017, 10:31:51
she must have hidden talents because Abbott comes across as plain thick.

I'm still voting labour, Boris is after all equally as dangerous for other reasons


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: jayohaitchenn on Monday, May 29, 2017, 10:40:35
She's a fucking car crash. Even the staunchest Corbyn fan can't possibly defend her.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: pauld on Monday, May 29, 2017, 11:45:34
Abbott is a fuckwit. But the Tories have more than their own share - Johnson, Fox, Fallon, Hammond et al, not to mention the stumbling rabbit in headlights act the Dear Leader does every time she's actually asked any real questions by anyone a bit tougher than the bloody One Show  - but their gaffes don't seem to get quite the same prominence. Almost like the press have an agenda, isn't it?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4547198/Tory-Defence-Secretary-accidentally-slams-Boris-Johnson.html


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Flashheart on Monday, May 29, 2017, 11:47:16
She always looks as though she's just woken from a nap.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: jayohaitchenn on Monday, May 29, 2017, 14:17:50
Abbott is a fuckwit. But the Tories have more than their own share - Johnson, Fox, Fallon, Hammond et al, not to mention the stumbling rabbit in headlights act the Dear Leader does every time she's actually asked any real questions by anyone a bit tougher than the bloody One Show  - but their gaffes don't seem to get quite the same prominence. Almost like the press have an agenda, isn't it?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4547198/Tory-Defence-Secretary-accidentally-slams-Boris-Johnson.html

You forgot Amber "£40,000 a year average salary for coppers" Rudd


Title: Re: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: horlock07 on Monday, May 29, 2017, 17:12:31
You forgot Amber "£40,000 a year average salary for coppers" Rudd
Or her interview suggesting that many of the problems with social media could be solved with a hash tag....

Everyone rallies against Abbott but this incompetent horror gets away Scot free time and time again....

https://medium.com/brexit-britain/that-theresa-may-article-and-its-significance-be2ffb91ad97


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Chubbs on Monday, May 29, 2017, 21:14:25
Is Paxman always a massive cunt?


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: tans on Monday, May 29, 2017, 21:16:24
Is Paxman always a massive cunt?

He's an idiot, he wouldnt let Corbyn answer the questions and then repeated himself


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Nemo on Monday, May 29, 2017, 21:53:00
Is Paxman always a massive cunt?

I mean the best thing that you can say for him is that he's an absolute horror to all sides. Not really what I want to see to inform me on anything but it does reveal how politicians react under pressure.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: JoeMezz on Monday, May 29, 2017, 21:58:02
Is Paxman always a massive cunt?

To be fair he is on University challenge too


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Leggett on Tuesday, May 30, 2017, 09:16:24
Paxman let May answer his questions for a lot longer than he did Corbyn before butting in or talking over them... he was tough on both though.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: herthab on Tuesday, May 30, 2017, 09:19:11
Paxman let May answer his questions for a lot longer than he did Corbyn before butting in or talking over them... he was tough on both though.

I liked the fact that May got longer. It showed how fucking clueless she is. Sound bite after sound bite...


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Barry Scott on Tuesday, May 30, 2017, 09:27:44
I didn't watch (and wouldn't) but when I accidentally catch May on TV I love how she comes across a nasty, clueless, lying old bag.

It seems no matter what she says she resents being asked (almost as though it's beneath her), hates having to answer and doesn't believe a word she's saying.

Oh well, if that cunt wins, then maybe the country can descend into chaos sooner and positive change can be affected.

And Paxman is one of the only people who's great at interviewing politicians. I love how he tries to make them crack and doesn't give a fuck.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: horlock07 on Tuesday, May 30, 2017, 09:35:36
Watched the interview yesterday, Corbyn came across as Corbyn, May came across a May, the only real loser was actually Paxman who came across as a busted flush and I suggest added further fuel to the fire that he is pointless in introducing such events these days as he has just become a self absorbed caricature of his former perceived self.

Can we just vote tomorrow and stop wasting time on this charade, after the fact that despite the dire damage being done to schools, the NHS, the disabled and unhealthy and the financial position of the elderly the Tory vote will remain as it is and people just obviously don't care about such matters so the other parties are just piddling in the wind. Its getting boring now - sadly.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Berniman on Tuesday, May 30, 2017, 11:46:51
Those that are pro Labour thought May came across bad, and vice versa.  I am still undecided and from what I have seen no performance has helped me get closer to a decision.  They both came across as full of shit on different subjects..

I still think they should spend more time talking about what they can bring to the people rather than slagging the opposition off.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: pauld on Tuesday, May 30, 2017, 11:52:18
I still think they should spend more time talking about what they can bring to the people rather than slagging the opposition off.
Maybe that's because they haven't got much to offer?


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: horlock07 on Tuesday, May 30, 2017, 12:02:56

I still think they should spend more time talking about what they can bring to the people rather than slagging the opposition off.

Had another Tory leaflet drop today and again its all vote for us or you will get Corbyn and vote for me, I am Theresa Mays candidate, it barely mentions the Tories just May and if she is their most valuable canvassing asset we are more fucked than I ever believed as she is a useless conniving bitch (in my opinion of course).

What makes it most bizarre round here is that its solely a Tory v. Lib Dem race (its Farrons seat) as Labour don't get a sniff (as shown by the fact they seem to have put up a 12 year old boy as their candidate http://www.southlakeslabour.org.uk/ge2017 ), yet all the Tory stuff just bangs on about Corbyn!


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: JoeMezz on Tuesday, May 30, 2017, 12:05:36
Seen Corbyn getting a bit of roasting for not knowing the cost of Labour's childcare policy, and trying to use his iPad to find out. What's actually wrong with that? Not as if he would have to cost everything off the top of his head if he does come into power? Better to check so that he doesn't get it wrong.

Meanwhile, the Tory manifesto (which is not costed like Labours is) doesn't get any questions?


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: horlock07 on Tuesday, May 30, 2017, 12:42:03
Seen Corbyn getting a bit of roasting for not knowing the cost of Labour's childcare policy, and trying to use his iPad to find out. What's actually wrong with that? Not as if he would have to cost everything off the top of his head if he does come into power? Better to check so that he doesn't get it wrong.

Meanwhile, the Tory manifesto (which is not costed like Labours is) doesn't get any questions?

I can entirely understand the bias shown by the print media, the main stream papers and their proprietors tend to historically have been very right wing in their outlook and now with the Tories proposing to drop Leveson 2 plus other proposed controls on them it makes entire sense for them to back May to the hilt.

What I struggle to really get my head round is why the BBC are giving the Tories such an easy ride, although the writing has been on the wall since they failed to report anything regarding Spanker John.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Reg Smeeton on Tuesday, May 30, 2017, 12:53:09
I can entirely understand the bias shown by the print media, the main stream papers and their proprietors tend to historically have been very right wing in their outlook and now with the Tories proposing to drop Leveson 2 plus other proposed controls on them it makes entire sense for them to back May to the hilt.

What I struggle to really get my head round is why the BBC are giving the Tories such an easy ride, although the writing has been on the wall since they failed to report anything regarding Spanker John.

The BBC, save for perhaps a short period in the early 70's has always been the mouthpiece of the establishment, which is always likely to mean a Tory bias.

You're more likely to find decent questioning journalism on ITV.  Someone like John Pilger would prove the point


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: RobertT on Tuesday, May 30, 2017, 14:09:41
Had another Tory leaflet drop today and again its all vote for us or you will get Corbyn and vote for me, I am Theresa Mays candidate, it barely mentions the Tories just May and if she is their most valuable canvassing asset we are more fucked than I ever believed as she is a useless conniving bitch (in my opinion of course).

What makes it most bizarre round here is that its solely a Tory v. Lib Dem race (its Farrons seat) as Labour don't get a sniff (as shown by the fact they seem to have put up a 12 year old boy as their candidate http://www.southlakeslabour.org.uk/ge2017 ), yet all the Tory stuff just bangs on about Corbyn!
Probably raising the spectre that a vote for the Lib Dems will actually risk you getting a Labour government.  A few will adjust their voting to avoid that, so they target those people.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: chalkies_shorts on Wednesday, May 31, 2017, 12:07:11
I think we've reached a new low in politics. I've watched a lot of the debates, questions etc and its depressing. May's main selling point appears to be "vote for me, I'm less shit than Corbyn", which is actually questionable. To use football parlance, she's playing the man, not the ball. The press appear to be giving her quite an easy ride and helping dig up everything about Corbyn.
It looks like this is turning the British public, much like project fear in the Brexit vote.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: horlock07 on Wednesday, May 31, 2017, 12:18:50
I think we've reached a new low in politics. I've watched a lot of the debates, questions etc and its depressing. May's main selling point appears to be "vote for me, I'm less shit than Corbyn", which is actually questionable. To use football parlance, she's playing the man, not the ball. The press appear to be giving her quite an easy ride and helping dig up everything about Corbyn.
It looks like this is turning the British public, much like project fear in the Brexit vote.

Indeed its becoming an entirely pointless campaign as the Tories don't seem to be bothering with policies, and when they do try they majorly fuck it up!

Project Fear obviously didn't turn voters as they all voted to leave but I see where you are coming from with the statement, the funny thing is that from personal experience those who made a big deal about project fear being plain wrong are the self same lapping up the Tory campaign...

Its a funny old world.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Berniman on Wednesday, May 31, 2017, 12:44:25

Project Fear obviously didn't turn voters as they all voted to leave

That's a bold statement, and obviously untrue, well the last bit anyway..


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Chubbs on Wednesday, May 31, 2017, 12:46:25
Its been like this since day 1. The tories have never tried to sell their own policies they have just tried to pick faults with Labour's policies. And when they can't do that they just make shit up knowing their supporters will eat it all up.

Admittedly Labour have bee drawn into the petty school yard squabbling but i don't think they had a choice.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: horlock07 on Wednesday, May 31, 2017, 13:49:57
That's a bold statement, and obviously untrue, well the last bit anyway..

Probably worded badly, should have noted it was all the brexiteers who whinged to me about 'project Fear' at great length before the referendum all still voted to leave and now see no problem with Mrs Mays election campaign approach.

Its still a funny old world though.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Nemo on Wednesday, May 31, 2017, 14:35:53
Corbyn has now agreed to take part in tonight's debate, having originally said he wouldn't unless May did (Amber Rudd is representing the Tories, which is an interesting choice as probably the most prominent remaining Tory remainer).

A very interesting move with the polls closing, admire the bravery of it. I'm impressed with how Labour have handled the election campaign so far, and Corbyn's definitely improving as a media presence, although it may just be in comparison with how the Conserv...sorry, Theresa May's team have made a truly spectacular hash of it at every step.

Still think Labour will lose seats mind, mostly because of the significant UKIP vote going to the Tories.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Reg Smeeton on Wednesday, May 31, 2017, 14:41:15
Corbyn has now agreed to take part in tonight's debate, having originally said he wouldn't unless May did (Amber Rudd is representing the Tories, which is an interesting choice as probably the most prominent remaining Tory remainer).

A very interesting move with the polls closing, admire the bravery of it. I'm impressed with how Labour have handled the election campaign so far, and Corbyn's definitely improving as a media presence, although it may just be in comparison with how the Conserv...sorry, Theresa May's team have made a truly spectacular hash of it at every step.

Still think Labour will lose seats mind.

Jeremy had to cancel his Swindon appearance at the last minute in order to get to Cambridge. Angela Rayner stepped in.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Arriba on Wednesday, May 31, 2017, 14:41:29
Corbyn has now agreed to take part in tonight's debate, having originally said he wouldn't unless May did (Amber Rudd is representing the Tories, which is an interesting choice as probably the most prominent remaining Tory remainer).

A very interesting move with the polls closing, admire the bravery of it. I'm impressed with how Labour have handled the election campaign so far, and Corbyn's definitely improving as a media presence, although it may just be in comparison with how the Conserv...sorry, Theresa May's team have made a truly spectacular hash of it at every step.

Still think Labour will lose seats mind.

Corbyn has nothing to lose. He's growing in popularity despite the media and fleet Street campaign against him whilst May is on the slide. He's taking a gamble and why not? Could go in his favour.

I'm in the mindset that I've never felt more certain about voting labour. Don't know about anyone else but Corbyn grows on me more and more by the day. May appalls me more and more by the day. Hiding from the public and debate despite calling this election.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: pauld on Wednesday, May 31, 2017, 14:44:31
Jeremy had to cancel his Swindon appearance at the last minute in order to get to Cambridge. Angela Rayner stepped in.
Smokescreen. He heard jayo was going to be there and legged it :)


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Nemo on Wednesday, May 31, 2017, 14:47:45
Corbyn has nothing to lose. He's growing in popularity despite the media and fleet Street campaign against him whilst May is on the slide. He's taking a gamble and why not? Could go in his favour.

Absolutely, you can see why he'd do it, and changing his mind at the last minute will put a lot of pressure on May to follow suit. Of course, if you were cynical, you might think that Corbyn may have decided to take the risk ages ago and been practicing for weeks but left announcing to the last minute to leave the Tories up shit creek.

Not sure Corbyn is the most Machiavellian politician around, but it's a thought...


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: skiptotheLouMacari on Wednesday, May 31, 2017, 15:22:08
Heard a rumour, so don't shoot the messenger.
To pay for the free tuition, child care costs and free NHS parking council tax will rise considerably, figures quoted being 100-200%rise all down to garden size and value of property. Corbyn apparently didn't want this leaked as it won't prove popular. I don't have the first fucking clue who to vote for, I can only imagine what the youngsters for whom this is their first ever vote must be thinking.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Nemo on Wednesday, May 31, 2017, 15:35:00
Heard a rumour, so don't shoot the messenger.
To pay for the free tuition, child care costs and free NHS parking council tax will rise considerably, figures quoted being 100-200%rise all down to garden size and value of property. Corbyn apparently didn't want this leaked as it won't prove popular. I don't have the first fucking clue who to vote for, I can only imagine what the youngsters for whom this is their first ever vote must be thinking.

I heard this at the gym earlier and had no idea what on earth it was about, so have looked it up and apparently it was in the Sun today.

Sounds like replacing council tax with a land value tax, which from the Labour manifesto is kinda mentioned in passing as something they'd look at, not a full commitment and not part of the costings they've done (whether or not you trust them).

If it *was* to be implemented, it would effectively mean a massive rise if you owned expensive land (say, in Corbyn's own constituency in Islington) but probably not a big change either way for most people outside of London, depending of course on the rate it was set at.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: ibelieveinmrreeves on Wednesday, May 31, 2017, 15:35:27
Heard a rumour, so don't shoot the messenger.
To pay for the free tuition, child care costs and free NHS parking council tax will rise considerably, figures quoted being 100-200%rise all down to garden size and value of property. Corbyn apparently didn't want this leaked as it won't prove popular. I don't have the first fucking clue who to vote for, I can only imagine what the youngsters for whom this is their first ever vote must be thinking.

The youngsters who don't own any property and probably won't be able to until they're in their mid-30s? Probably not a lot.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: skiptotheLouMacari on Wednesday, May 31, 2017, 15:38:48
The youngsters who don't own any property and probably won't be able to until they're in their mid-30s? Probably not a lot.

Sorry didn't make myself clear.
I only meant in relation to the tit for tat squabbling, the he said she said. Not the land tax bit,  just this election in general. Very divisive.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: pauld on Wednesday, May 31, 2017, 15:39:08
I heard this at the gym earlier and had no idea what on earth it was about, so have looked it up and apparently it was in the Sun today.
So, basically it's not actually true then.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: horlock07 on Wednesday, May 31, 2017, 15:40:20
Heard a rumour, so don't shoot the messenger.
To pay for the free tuition, child care costs and free NHS parking council tax will rise considerably, figures quoted being 100-200%rise all down to garden size and value of property. Corbyn apparently didn't want this leaked as it won't prove popular. I don't have the first fucking clue who to vote for, I can only imagine what the youngsters for whom this is their first ever vote must be thinking.

Its not a rumour, its a lie that was peddled out by the Tories via Boris and lapped up by their supporters in the press earlier in the week and is total bollocks! In short its suggesting that land be taxed based upon its potential development value (I don't know the detail but would suspect its trying to stop developers land banking), however as the development of gardens is contrary to national planning policy and thus in the majority of cases highly unlikely to get planning permission it essentially doesn't have a development value.

It would also mean someone doing a planning appraisal on every piece of land in the country to try and come up with its development value, which would mean a lot of work for consultants like me - sounds like a good idea then!

Just one of many lies being peddled by the evermore desperate Tory machine..... http://www.huckmagazine.com/perspectives/opinion-perspectives/theresa-may-secret-plan-keep-britain-european-union/

I don't think they can lose, but I do wonder whether they are not going to do nearly as well as she thought they would....


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: RobertT on Wednesday, May 31, 2017, 15:40:48
The policy could work, if for no other reason than to bring a halt to the crazy property price surges you see - nobody will want their house to go up in value if their taxes go up at the same rate.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: horlock07 on Wednesday, May 31, 2017, 15:47:36
The policy could work, if for no other reason than to bring a halt to the crazy property price surges you see - nobody will want their house to go up in value if their taxes go up at the same rate.

Rather depends how much it is updated, house prices have gone through the roof since most Council Tax banding decisions were taken, but the bills haven't changed much. Plus in terms of development land value uplifts it often gets covered off by the CGT or corporation tax regimes already.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: RobertT on Wednesday, May 31, 2017, 15:48:50
Should go like it does over here, % annual charge of property value - think they update every so often, but it seems to prevent huge surges outside of massive metropolitan areas.

They reset the value every time a house changes hands as well, and use the latest value.  3% here in Georgia, imagine that rate in the South East f the UK!


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: horlock07 on Wednesday, May 31, 2017, 16:15:18
Corbyn has nothing to lose. He's growing in popularity despite the media and fleet Street campaign against him whilst May is on the slide. He's taking a gamble and why not? Could go in his favour.

I'm in the mindset that I've never felt more certain about voting labour. Don't know about anyone else but Corbyn grows on me more and more by the day. May appalls me more and more by the day. Hiding from the public and debate despite calling this election.


Its actually gone in completely opposite direction the Tories expected (whoop!)

At the start loads of people were saying that they would not vote for Corbyn, because of him, now there are more an more people saying that they will vote for Corbyn, because of her....

As for the evening good luck to him, although the BBC will no doubt treat it like some manner of memory contest and try and trip him up. The fact that the Tories are sending Amber Rudd just illustrates how shit they are, as she is as crap at answering questions as May is. Don't know if I can be arsed to watch but we will see.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: pauld on Wednesday, May 31, 2017, 17:23:22
So, the woman who's only real reason for saying she should be PM is that she's the only person strong enough to negotiate Brexit with the EU wants us to believe she's tough enough for that but bottles out a TV debate with the bloke she reckons would be useless? Not exactly convincing is it?
 #BiggestBottlerSinceSherwood


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Arriba on Wednesday, May 31, 2017, 18:55:16
So, the woman who's only real reason for saying she should be PM is that she's the only person strong enough to negotiate Brexit with the EU wants us to believe she's tough enough for that but bottles out a TV debate with the bloke she reckons would be useless? Not exactly convincing is it?
 #BiggestBottlerSinceSherwood

Saying she won't do the TV debates as she's concentrating on brexit was cringingly brilliant. As was yesterday when she said imagine Corbyn naked. People in glass houses and all that. She's so bad when put on the spot. *Strong and stable" fucking big soapy tit wank


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Flashheart on Wednesday, May 31, 2017, 19:03:35
She looks ill to me in this video.

https://twitter.com/ThaiJamie/status/869919575839711232



Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Exiled Bob on Wednesday, May 31, 2017, 19:20:22
There's something very wrong with her mouth.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Posh Red on Wednesday, May 31, 2017, 19:35:39
There's something very wrong with her mouth.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Nemo on Wednesday, May 31, 2017, 19:38:26
Debate on BBC1 now. I wonder which one will annoy me most. Smart money is on Nuttall but I don't expect better from him, so it may be an upset win.

Edit: Almost feeling sorry for Amber Rudd, she's here entirely to get a kicking with a brief to try to avoid becoming an internet meme at best. Her boss owes her one.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: chalkies_shorts on Wednesday, May 31, 2017, 19:53:54
Amber Rudd is the Luke Williams of politics. Fucking useless, talks bollocks but sent out there by equal inadequates.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: donkey on Wednesday, May 31, 2017, 19:59:21
I wish Amber Rudd would say 'money tree' again.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Nemo on Wednesday, May 31, 2017, 20:01:37
Fairly sure whoever put this crowd together is going to get a kicking on the press tomorrow, they're not exactly sounding totally representative at the moment.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Chubbs on Wednesday, May 31, 2017, 20:26:41
respect to Amber Rudd for going out there and doing May's dirty work.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: chalkies_shorts on Wednesday, May 31, 2017, 21:02:28
Pretty poor show tonight.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Nemo on Wednesday, May 31, 2017, 21:04:59
Yup, can't imagine many undecided voters came away from that feeling like it had helped. Seven voices is too many, especially as most people can't even vote for two of them.

No real knock out blows or memorable moments, Farron's line at the end about bake off made me laugh but he'd been peripheral until then. Doubt May will suffer too much for staying away.


Title: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Batch on Wednesday, May 31, 2017, 21:07:24
Corbyn comes across quite assured, doubt he'll lose out on votes because of that performance.

Not much said on Brexit though.. bit if a crap debate


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: RedRag on Wednesday, May 31, 2017, 22:43:30
Interested to learn that Rudd's father died on Monday.  Condolences, of course.  She had more cojones than her retiring boss who let her debate regardless.  Perhaps Philip required Theresa to stay at home for the "boys jobs".  Hopefully he'll let her out for the Brexit negs as, it seems, the 27 EU remainers will crumble faced by "strong Theresa"   oooooooooooooh!


Title: Re:
Post by: horlock07 on Wednesday, May 31, 2017, 23:15:07
So did we learn anything this evening apart from the fact that Amber Rudd has never played monopoly in her life.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Peter Venkman on Thursday, June 1, 2017, 09:18:04
(https://s24.postimg.org/tvld9ktcl/18740202_10155134569715664_1586907938491293389_n.jpg)


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: pauld on Thursday, June 1, 2017, 10:40:46
So did we learn anything this evening apart from the fact that Amber Rudd has never played monopoly in her life.
That the Tories have now glimpsed into the abyss, realised what a complete car crash delivering Brexit is going to be and are doing their best to throw the election so they can blame Labour for the mess?


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Berniman on Thursday, June 1, 2017, 11:50:40
Let's face it, whichever one of this lot gets in is going to royaly fuck it up..


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Chubbs on Thursday, June 1, 2017, 11:59:41
Let's face it, whichever one of this lot gets in is going to royaly fuck it up..
And the other will be all "i told you so"


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Private Fraser on Thursday, June 1, 2017, 12:00:06
Let's face it, whichever one of this lot gets in is going to royaly fuck it up..

At last!  After 42 pages, an informed observation.  :D


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Exiled Bob on Thursday, June 1, 2017, 12:03:27
That the Tories have now glimpsed into the abyss, realised what a complete car crash delivering Brexit is going to be and are doing their best to throw the election so they can blame Labour for the mess?
I'd imagine Cameron is having a quiet chuckle to himself, the spineless fucker.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: pauld on Thursday, June 1, 2017, 12:07:56
I'd imagine Cameron is having a quiet chuckle to himself, the spineless fucker.
Probably knocking one out into a dead pig's head as we speak


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: horlock07 on Thursday, June 1, 2017, 14:13:49
Probably knocking one out into a dead pig's head as we speak

I believe there is a lot of that goes on in the Chipping Norton area.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: tans on Thursday, June 1, 2017, 15:11:54
I believe there is a lot of that goes on in the Chipping Norton area.

Again, you would be correct!


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: horlock07 on Thursday, June 1, 2017, 17:55:59
Again, you would be correct!

The wedding I went to in Chippy, everybody was at it!


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: herthab on Thursday, June 1, 2017, 19:29:54
The wedding I went to in Chippy, everybody was at it!

Is it true that the top table at a Chippy wedding has less chairs than at a usual wedding, what with the parents of the bride also being the parents of the groom?


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Reg Smeeton on Friday, June 2, 2017, 09:10:23
 I wonder if the Tories have a manifesto position on the Paris climate change accord, that Trump has refused to sign. This is the sort of thing that the EU does as a group.  So now we're on our way out will the Tories cosy up to Trump in denial  :hmmm:


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: horlock07 on Friday, June 2, 2017, 09:22:13
I wonder if the Tories have a manifesto position on the Paris climate change accord, that Trump has refused to sign. This is the sort of thing that the EU does as a group.  So now we're on our way out will the Tories cosy up to Trump in denial  :hmmm:

Mrs May has come out and said him refusing to sign it is not a great thing and we are still committed apparently. She was offered the chance to sign the statement put out by the French, German and Italians but declined, I assume as cavorting with the enemy would probably upset her bosses at the Daily Mail.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: herthab on Friday, June 2, 2017, 09:25:39
Mrs May has come out and said him refusing to sign it is not a great thing and we are still committed apparently. She was offered the chance to sign the statement put out by the French, German and Italians but declined, I assume as cavorting with the enemy would probably upset her bosses at the Daily Mail.

Strong & Stable. Strong & Stable.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Reg Smeeton on Friday, June 2, 2017, 09:40:15
Mrs May has come out and said him refusing to sign it is not a great thing and we are still committed apparently. She was offered the chance to sign the statement put out by the French, German and Italians but declined, I assume as cavorting with the enemy would probably upset her bosses at the Daily Mail.

I suppose we're still in the EU for another 2 years, so this will be another of the pieces of legislation that the Tories wish to unpick by increasing their majority... along with other environmental safguards.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Mister Lorenzo on Friday, June 2, 2017, 09:44:37
Saw this on another forum, it's a bit cheesy but thought it might give some balance to the debate;

Suppose that once a week, ten men go out for beer and the bill for all ten comes to £100. If they paid their bill the way we pay our taxes, it would go something like this...

The first four men (the poorest) would pay nothing.
The fifth would pay £1.
The sixth would pay £3.
The seventh would pay £7.
The eighth would pay £12.
The ninth would pay £18.
And the tenth man (the richest) would pay £59.?
So, that's what they decided to do.

The ten men drank in the bar every week and seemed quite happy with the arrangement until, one day, the owner caused them a little problem. "Since you are all such good customers," he said, "I'm going to reduce the cost of your weekly beer by £20." Drinks for the ten men would now cost just £80.

The group still wanted to pay their bill the way we pay our taxes. So the first four men were unaffected. They would still drink for free but what about the other six men? The paying customers? How could they divide the £20 windfall so that everyone would get his fair share? They realized that £20 divided by six is £3.33 but if they subtracted that from everybody's share then not only would the first four men still be drinking for free but the fifth and sixth man would each end up being paid to drink his beer.?

So, the bar owner suggested that it would be fairer to reduce each man's bill by a higher percentage. They decided to follow the principle of the tax system they had been using and he proceeded to work out the amounts he suggested that each should now pay.

And so, the fifth man, like the first four, now paid nothing (a100% saving).
The sixth man now paid £2 instead of £3 (a 33% saving).
The seventh man now paid £5 instead of £7 (a 28% saving).
The eighth man now paid £9 instead of £12 (a 25% saving).
The ninth man now paid £14 instead of £18 (a 22% saving).
And the tenth man now paid £49 instead of £59 (a 16% saving).
Each of the last six was better off than before with the first four continuing to drink for free.?

But, once outside the bar, the men began to compare their savings. "I only got £1 out of the £20 saving," declared the sixth man. He pointed to the tenth man, "but he got £10!"
"Yeah, that's right," exclaimed the fifth man. "I only saved a £1 too. It's unfair that he got ten times more benefit than me!"

"That's true!" shouted the seventh man. "Why should he get £10 back, when I only got £2? The wealthy get all the breaks!"

"Wait a minute," yelled the first four men in unison, "we didn't get anything at all. This new tax system exploits the poor!" The nine men surrounded the tenth and beat him up.

The next week the tenth man didn't show up for drinks, so the nine sat down and had their beers without him. But when it came time to pay the bill, they discovered something important - they didn't have enough money between all of them to pay for even half of the bill!

And that, boys and girls, journalists and government ministers, is how our tax system works. The people who already pay the highest taxes will naturally get the most benefit from a tax reduction. Tax them too much, attack them for being wealthy and they just might not show up anymore. In fact, they might start drinking overseas, where the atmosphere is somewhat friendlier.

For those who understand, no explanation is needed.
For those who do not understand, no explanation is possible.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Tails on Friday, June 2, 2017, 09:53:47
Put a post up on Facebook about it but finally got a leaflet through for the local Tory MP... Theresa May takes up about 70% of the leaflet, a swipe at Corbyn is about 20% and the then there's a tiny bit about local issues. This is in a Tory safe seat which John Redwood has held for over 30 years.

The Tories are panicking.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: horlock07 on Friday, June 2, 2017, 10:03:54
Put a post up on Facebook about it but finally got a leaflet through for the local Tory MP... Theresa May takes up about 70% of the leaflet, a swipe at Corbyn is about 20% and the then there's a tiny bit about local issues. This is in a Tory safe seat which John Redwood has held for over 30 years.

The Tories are panicking.

This would suggest so....
http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/ent...c834f06?ir=UK+Politics&utm_hp_ref=uk-politics 


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: herthab on Friday, June 2, 2017, 10:35:11
If you earn between 80-100,000 a year, the Labour plan would cost you, at most, 19 quid a week. There are approximately 500,000 people that fall into this bracket.

If you earn more than 500,000 a year, the Labour plan would cost you, at most, 440 quid a week (Bearing in mind the weekly salary would be £9,615, leaving you with over 9 grand a week).

It's hardly taxing the rich into poverty, is it?





Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: horlock07 on Friday, June 2, 2017, 10:37:27
Lovely stuff....

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-kent-40129826 The irony that it was to beat Ukip, which the Tories have now morphed into is even more delicious.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Ginginho on Friday, June 2, 2017, 12:08:14
Lovely stuff....

Anyone else read that in the voice of Alan Partridge?


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: jayohaitchenn on Friday, June 2, 2017, 12:58:12
Saw this on another forum, it's a bit cheesy but thought it might give some balance to the debate;

Suppose that once a week, ten men go out for beer and the bill for all ten comes to £100. If they paid their bill the way we pay our taxes, it would go something like this...

The first four men (the poorest) would pay nothing.
The fifth would pay £1.
The sixth would pay £3.
The seventh would pay £7.
The eighth would pay £12.
The ninth would pay £18.
And the tenth man (the richest) would pay £59.?
So, that's what they decided to do.

The ten men drank in the bar every week and seemed quite happy with the arrangement until, one day, the owner caused them a little problem. "Since you are all such good customers," he said, "I'm going to reduce the cost of your weekly beer by £20." Drinks for the ten men would now cost just £80.

The group still wanted to pay their bill the way we pay our taxes. So the first four men were unaffected. They would still drink for free but what about the other six men? The paying customers? How could they divide the £20 windfall so that everyone would get his fair share? They realized that £20 divided by six is £3.33 but if they subtracted that from everybody's share then not only would the first four men still be drinking for free but the fifth and sixth man would each end up being paid to drink his beer.?

So, the bar owner suggested that it would be fairer to reduce each man's bill by a higher percentage. They decided to follow the principle of the tax system they had been using and he proceeded to work out the amounts he suggested that each should now pay.

And so, the fifth man, like the first four, now paid nothing (a100% saving).
The sixth man now paid £2 instead of £3 (a 33% saving).
The seventh man now paid £5 instead of £7 (a 28% saving).
The eighth man now paid £9 instead of £12 (a 25% saving).
The ninth man now paid £14 instead of £18 (a 22% saving).
And the tenth man now paid £49 instead of £59 (a 16% saving).
Each of the last six was better off than before with the first four continuing to drink for free.?

But, once outside the bar, the men began to compare their savings. "I only got £1 out of the £20 saving," declared the sixth man. He pointed to the tenth man, "but he got £10!"
"Yeah, that's right," exclaimed the fifth man. "I only saved a £1 too. It's unfair that he got ten times more benefit than me!"

"That's true!" shouted the seventh man. "Why should he get £10 back, when I only got £2? The wealthy get all the breaks!"

"Wait a minute," yelled the first four men in unison, "we didn't get anything at all. This new tax system exploits the poor!" The nine men surrounded the tenth and beat him up.

The next week the tenth man didn't show up for drinks, so the nine sat down and had their beers without him. But when it came time to pay the bill, they discovered something important - they didn't have enough money between all of them to pay for even half of the bill!

And that, boys and girls, journalists and government ministers, is how our tax system works. The people who already pay the highest taxes will naturally get the most benefit from a tax reduction. Tax them too much, attack them for being wealthy and they just might not show up anymore. In fact, they might start drinking overseas, where the atmosphere is somewhat friendlier.

For those who understand, no explanation is needed.
For those who do not understand, no explanation is possible.


Fucking hate this meme. Firstly it's total bollocks, The poor pay a higher proportion of their earnings in tax than the rich do:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/the-graph-that-shows-how-the-poor-are-paying-more-than-the-rich-in-tax-10353982.html

Secondly, it's wrongly attributed to an economics professor who has refuted it.

http://www.snopes.com/business/taxes/howtaxes.asp


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Exiled Bob on Friday, June 2, 2017, 13:13:03
This is what the electorate can never seem to grasp when it comes to an election:
Quote
The reason why those on the lowest incomes are paying the biggest proportion of their income in tax is because indirect taxes, such as VAT and tax on tobacco, alcohol and fuel are charged at the same rate to all income groups.
Instead they believe the bullshit spouted by the rags such as the Mail and the Sun that they will pay more tax under Labour than under the tories.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: The Grim Reaper on Friday, June 2, 2017, 21:58:02
JC apart from being rattled over the nuke question seemed to handle all questions thrown at him very calmly and professional. TM looked nervous and seemed a bit vague in her answers.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: StfcRusty on Friday, June 2, 2017, 22:41:29
Can someone explain to me why so many people get so angry that Corbyn doesn't seem keen on using nukes?

Isn't true that only about 9 countries have nuclear weapons? Only UK and France have them of European countries? How is it that Germany, Italy, Holland etc seem to cope without them?

Genuinely confused so keen to understand


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Legends-Lounge on Friday, June 2, 2017, 22:49:40
Can someone explain to me why so many people get so angry that Corbyn doesn't seem keen on using nukes?

Isn't true that only about 9 countries have nuclear weapons? Only UK and France have them of European countries? How is it that Germany, Italy, Holland etc seem to cope without them?

Genuinely confused so keen to understand
Because we have them and France has them. Why would they want to spend billions having them? Once again another situation where us Brits find ourselves at the bar buying drinks for everyone else. No wonder Trumps pissed off over NATO defence spending.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Arriba on Friday, June 2, 2017, 23:04:45
Tweet of the night in my opinion.


Use #trident first it's suicide. Use it 2nd it was never a deterrent. Expensive vanity project benefiting nobody! #bbcqt #bbcquestiontime


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Batch on Friday, June 2, 2017, 23:09:50
my favourite in response to Corbyn's bring heckled on QT was from Frankie Boyle:

All the average British punter wants is to be paid less than £10 an hour and be incinerated in a nuclear holocaust, and good luck to em


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: theakston2k on Friday, June 2, 2017, 23:39:46
Tweet of the night in my opinion.


Use #trident first it's suicide. Use it 2nd it was never a deterrent. Expensive vanity project benefiting nobody! #bbcqt #bbcquestiontime
That's overly simplistic. Without nuclear weapons there would almost certainly have been a Third World War by now and not forgetting the development of them led to nuclear power. The mutual destruction a nuclear conflict would cause puts even the most aggressive leaders trying anythig against a country armed with or allied to a country with nuclear weapons. As a deterrent nuclear weapons have worked perfectly, I'd even argue that we should be trying to make ourselves self sufficient as we are reliant on the US for the maintenance of them. When the chips are down you can't rely on others to protect you.
Theortetically if we disarmed could we really rely on France or the US to protect us and voluntarily get involved in a nuclear conflict? I can't see it and some of the more unstable leaders would probably think the same.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Reg Smeeton on Saturday, June 3, 2017, 01:43:13
I'd even argue that we should be trying to make ourselves self sufficient as we are reliant on the US for the maintenance of them. When the chips are down you can't rely on others to protect you.

In my youth... we tried to have an independent deterrent. We're talking a time in the 50's, into the 60's, when defence spending was 10% of GDP, not the current 2%

Our bomb was based on a delivery system of planes, the so called V bombers.... Vulcan, Victor, Valiant. Problem was that it soon became apparent, that they'd be shot down before getting close enough into Soviet airspace to deliver. So a scramble for a missile system happened.... Blue Streak, Blue Steel were developed, but useless. a bit like a Scud. Interestingly, there's a Blue Streak up at Wroughton...fascinating.

So we accepted the need to buy in Polaris.  

If you want to develop our own system now it would cost. I'm not sure even the most rabid Tory, would argue the case.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Legends-Lounge on Saturday, June 3, 2017, 11:31:37
That's overly simplistic. Without nuclear weapons there would almost certainly have been a Third World War by now and not forgetting the development of them led to nuclear power. The mutual destruction a nuclear conflict would cause puts even the most aggressive leaders trying anythig against a country armed with or allied to a country with nuclear weapons. As a deterrent nuclear weapons have worked perfectly, I'd even argue that we should be trying to make ourselves self sufficient as we are reliant on the US for the maintenance of them. When the chips are down you can't rely on others to protect you.
Theortetically if we disarmed could we really rely on France or the US to protect us and voluntarily get involved in a nuclear conflict? I can't see it and some of the more unstable leaders would probably think the same.
This.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: jayohaitchenn on Saturday, June 3, 2017, 11:50:32
That's overly simplistic. Without nuclear weapons there would almost certainly have been a Third World War by now and not forgetting the development of them led to nuclear power. The mutual destruction a nuclear conflict would cause puts even the most aggressive leaders trying anythig against a country armed with or allied to a country with nuclear weapons. As a deterrent nuclear weapons have worked perfectly, I'd even argue that we should be trying to make ourselves self sufficient as we are reliant on the US for the maintenance of them. When the chips are down you can't rely on others to protect you.
Theortetically if we disarmed could we really rely on France or the US to protect us and voluntarily get involved in a nuclear conflict? I can't see it and some of the more unstable leaders would probably think the same.

How come the threat of nukes didn't stop Argentina fronting up to us then?


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Batch on Saturday, June 3, 2017, 12:05:59
The nuclear threat in that form is over.

Who is going to nuke us now? North Korea? Will they care we have nukes if they do?


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: theakston2k on Saturday, June 3, 2017, 12:07:33
How come the threat of nukes didn't stop Argentina fronting up to us then?
I'd imagine they thought that defence cuts previously there were a sign that we wouldn't bother to defend them if push came to shove and a nuclear strike over an island of 1600 people would be unlikely. Very different attacking a colony thousands of miles away as opposed to the UK itself.

If we get rid of our deterrent it is a decision that we will have to live with for the foreseeable future and who knows what the world will be like in say 30 years. Also factor in the lack of commitment from the US towards NATO and you'd suddenly be left with France having the only deterrent in the whole of Europe and what if their policy suddenly changes?

Any savings from scrapping it would just be wasted elsewhere on other 'vanity projects' anyway like renationalising the railways.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Batch on Saturday, June 3, 2017, 12:09:25
Labour's manifesto say they'd renew trident.
Corbyn using it or not is another issue.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: theakston2k on Saturday, June 3, 2017, 12:18:23
Labour's manifesto say they'd renew trident.
Corbyn using it or not is another issue.
Corbyns personal policy is to buy the new Vanguards and run them empty with no missiles in them in order to prevent job losses. Now that is the definition of a waste of money!


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Flashheart on Saturday, June 3, 2017, 12:24:23
Did he actually say he wouldn't use it at all, or that he wouldn't use it as a first strike?

I really don't think protection from outdated air/naval forces and a bunch of conscripts is what politicians have in mind when it comes to nuclear deterrent. The maximum damage the Argies could have caused was always going to be very limited, it was obvious that a nuclear strike would have been disproportionate in that case. It was never even officially declared as a war.

We may not (according to some) need such a deterrent now, but things can change quickly. A rise in patriotism in other countries like we've seen in youessay and Europe recently could make things a lot more hostile. Look at just how quickly Turkey is changing, and all from the appointment of one man.

I think it's all very idealistic and quite naive to say get rid. Politicians have decisions to make in regard to defence. We don't have crystal balls and what not. Neither can we know what might (or might not) have happened had we not had them in the past.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: jayohaitchenn on Saturday, June 3, 2017, 12:27:15
My point was, it wasn't much of a deterrent if other countries are still attempting in invade.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Bob's Orange on Saturday, June 3, 2017, 12:29:13
I love the student on the BBC question time show that stated - "I need my zero hours contract to buy food, Jeremy will starve me" whilst wearing a £150 Ralph Lauren cardigan.

He's since closed his twitter account but has been outed as a private school toff.

Fucking clown



Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Flashheart on Saturday, June 3, 2017, 12:30:10
My point is that I don't think for one minute Argentina in particular would have expected us to use our nukes for them invading the Falklands, and rightly so. Another country that could potentially cause us some real damage, however, that was intending to do so would have cause to think otherwise.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: tans on Saturday, June 3, 2017, 12:48:56
I love the student on the BBC question time show that stated - "I need my zero hours contract to buy food, Jeremy will starve me" whilst wearing a £150 Ralph Lauren cardigan.

He's since closed his twitter account but has been outed as a private school toff.

Fucking clown



He wasnt a tory plant in the audience if ever ive seen one!


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Bob's Orange on Saturday, June 3, 2017, 12:56:12
He wasnt a tory plant in the audience if ever ive seen one!

Totally! What a melt.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Batch on Saturday, June 3, 2017, 13:24:31
Quote from: Bob's Orange
I love the student on the BBC question time show that stated - "I need my zero hours contract to buy food, Jeremy will starve me" whilst wearing a £150 Ralph Lauren cardigan.

besides that, didn't anyone point out he's running the risk of no or little work anyway,  the clues in the name ffs.

must have been an English Lit undergraduate :)


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: StfcRusty on Saturday, June 3, 2017, 18:53:36
I love the student on the BBC question time show that stated - "I need my zero hours contract to buy food, Jeremy will starve me" whilst wearing a £150 Ralph Lauren cardigan.

He's since closed his twitter account but has been outed as a private school toff.

Fucking clown



Don't be such a cynic. Poor, hard-working students need flexible working options to pay for those top hats y'know


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: hobodan on Sunday, June 4, 2017, 11:49:30
I'm no Tory but feck, how can anyone vote labour 😂 The IRA and the Argentines must be rubbing their hands with glee at the prospect of communist Corbyn getting in. He's a complete wet lettuce, he'd have us bend over and take it in the arse from the Brexit negotiations, He'd have us all apologising to terrorists and convincing us they need love instead. The guy is a complete buffoon. I'm amazed that people in a hard working town like Swindon are willing to vote for him, along side racist Dianne Abbot.
Genuinely baffled. I really hope thetownend poll is not an indicator of the election, and I'm sure it won't be. Ffs


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Tails on Sunday, June 4, 2017, 11:59:37
I'm no Tory but feck, how can anyone vote labour 😂 The IRA and the Argentines must be rubbing their hands with glee at the prospect of communist Corbyn getting in. He's a complete wet lettuce, he'd have us bend over and take it in the arse from the Brexit negotiations, He'd have us all apologising to terrorists and convincing us they need love instead. The guy is a complete buffoon. I'm amazed that people in a hard working town like Swindon are willing to vote for him, along side racist Dianne Abbot.
Genuinely baffled. I really hope thetownend poll is not an indicator of the election, and I'm sure it won't be. Ffs

Wow you've just blown the 80% bollocks quota out of the water. Good job!


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: herthab on Sunday, June 4, 2017, 12:10:55
I'm no Tory but feck, how can anyone vote labour 😂 The IRA and the Argentines must be rubbing their hands with glee at the prospect of communist Corbyn getting in. He's a complete wet lettuce, he'd have us bend over and take it in the arse from the Brexit negotiations, He'd have us all apologising to terrorists and convincing us they need love instead. The guy is a complete buffoon. I'm amazed that people in a hard working town like Swindon are willing to vote for him, along side racist Dianne Abbot.
Genuinely baffled. I really hope thetownend poll is not an indicator of the election, and I'm sure it won't be. Ffs

Calling a socialist a communist is like accusing a Tory of being a nazi, fucking stupid.

Argue with their policies, fine. But to regurgitate the warm diarrhoea splashed over tabloids like the Sun, Mail and Express shows you're incapable of original thought.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Bob's Orange on Sunday, June 4, 2017, 12:13:31
I'm no Tory but feck, how can anyone vote labour 😂 The IRA and the Argentines must be rubbing their hands with glee at the prospect of communist Corbyn getting in. He's a complete wet lettuce, he'd have us bend over and take it in the arse from the Brexit negotiations, He'd have us all apologising to terrorists and convincing us they need love instead. The guy is a complete buffoon. I'm amazed that people in a hard working town like Swindon are willing to vote for him, along side racist Dianne Abbot.
Genuinely baffled. I really hope thetownend poll is not an indicator of the election, and I'm sure it won't be. Ffs

At least Corby would turn up to the discussions.


Title: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Batch on Sunday, June 4, 2017, 12:13:49
I like how pulling the hard-line on the IRA solved the troubles.

Or by bombing the shit out of Iraq and Syria didn't have any consequences either.

oh wait,  hobodan is posting bollocks


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Bob's Orange on Sunday, June 4, 2017, 12:15:27
I like how pulling the hard-line on the IRA solved the troubles.

Or by bombing the shit out of Iraq and Syria didn't have any consequences either.

oh wait,  hobodan is posting bollocks

Thanks to you and Herthab for very sussinctly summing up my thoughts as well.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: swindonmaniac on Sunday, June 4, 2017, 12:17:41
Calling a socialist a communist is like accusing a Tory of being a nazi, fucking stupid.

Argue with their policies, fine. But to regurgitate the warm diarrhoea splashed over tabloids like the Sun, Mail and Express shows you're incapable of original thought.
Suppose on that basis we all need to read and accept with whats written in the Daily Star or on Facebook then.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Sir Cliff Pipehard on Sunday, June 4, 2017, 12:22:33

This made me laugh

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x5khzvv



Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Sir Cliff Pipehard on Sunday, June 4, 2017, 12:35:24
I'm no Tory but feck, how can anyone vote labour 😂 The IRA and the Argentines must be rubbing their hands with glee at the prospect of communist Corbyn getting in. He's a complete wet lettuce, he'd have us bend over and take it in the arse from the Brexit negotiations, He'd have us all apologising to terrorists and convincing us they need love instead. The guy is a complete buffoon. I'm amazed that people in a hard working town like Swindon are willing to vote for him, along side racist Dianne Abbot.
Genuinely baffled. I really hope thetownend poll is not an indicator of the election, and I'm sure it won't be. Ffs

I'm equally baffled by how anyone could vote for a party who allow people like this to represent them.

https://tompride.wordpress.com/2017/05/21/former-active-ira-member-serving-as-tory-party-councillor/



Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: hobodan on Sunday, June 4, 2017, 12:40:34
Seriously, do we really have so many soft liberal bastards in these parts 😂. Macdonald, he's a fucking Marxist if ever their was one, of course Corbyn has his hand in he communist camp. And you accuse me of talking bollocks. In light of the terrorist attacks you should be ashamed to associate with 'friend of the terrorist' Corbyn, and yes he absolutely did say that himself.
Jesus wept, this country is going down the shitter thanks to these cunty 'tolerant' liberals. Make no mistake, labour are not the Labour Party anymore.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Berniman on Sunday, June 4, 2017, 13:08:21
Distancing myself from Hobodan views, however last nights events will have not have helped labour in their quest for election votes, and a big chunk of the reasoning for that is Corbyn.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: theakston2k on Sunday, June 4, 2017, 13:16:15
Distancing myself from Hobodan views, however last nights events will have not have helped labour in their quest for election votes, and a big chunk of the reasoning for that is Corbyn.
Along with Diane Abbott and her "every defeat of the British state is a victory for all of us” quote about the IRA. I fail to see how she can be allowed to be a British politician with her previous yet alone a potentially a government front bencher and Home Secretary of all positions.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Sir Cliff Pipehard on Sunday, June 4, 2017, 13:19:27
Seriously, do we really have so many soft liberal bastards in these parts 😂. Macdonald, he's a fucking Marxist if ever their was one, of course Corbyn has his hand in he communist camp. And you accuse me of talking bollocks. In light of the terrorist attacks you should be ashamed to associate with 'friend of the terrorist' Corbyn, and yes he absolutely did say that himself.
Jesus wept, this country is going down the shitter thanks to these cunty 'tolerant' liberals. Make no mistake, labour are not the Labour Party anymore.

To be honest,I've got friends and family members who feel exactly the way you do towards Corbyn and the Labour party.

We have to remember the only way that conflict was resolved in NI  was through all parties sitting down and talking together.

The situation with Isis is completely different.
I just don't believe the Tory party with their disastrous foreign policy and cuts to the police and security services are best equipped to deal with it.



Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Reg Smeeton on Sunday, June 4, 2017, 13:24:51
To be honest,I've got friends and family members who feel exactly the way you do towards Corbyn and the Labour party.

We have to remember the only way that conflict was resolved in NI  was through all parties sitting down and talking together.

The situation with Isis is completely different.
I just don't believe the Tory party with their disastrous foreign policy and cuts to the police and security services are best equipped to deal with it.

Here's what you need to know about Tory foreign policy....

https://consortiumnews.com/2017/05/31/libyas-link-to-manchesters-tragedy/


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: herthab on Sunday, June 4, 2017, 13:29:45
Suppose on that basis we all need to read and accept with whats written in the Daily Star or on Facebook then.

No. You could read each party's manifesto and actually listen to the candidates, instead of reading (or listening to) a biased version from a media platform.

Oh and I think you meant The Morning Star. The Daily Star is owned by the Express Group and not known for any left wing leanings.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Berniman on Sunday, June 4, 2017, 13:30:14
To be honest,I've got friends and family members who feel exactly the way you do towards Corbyn and the Labour party.

We have to remember the only way that conflict was resolved in NI  was through all parties sitting down and talking together.

The situation with Isis is completely different.
I just don't believe the Tory party with their disastrous foreign policy and cuts to the police and security services are best equipped to deal with it.



This is part of the problem, you have the Tories, on which you are correct above, and you have Labour that are saying the right things about the Police (even though they don't understand how they are paying for it).

However, when you have the Labour leader stating in the recent past that he disagrees completely with the governments shoot to kill policy, something that addressed and ended the attacks within 8 minutes last night, it is a difficult to feel confident voting for either.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: theakston2k on Sunday, June 4, 2017, 13:35:54
To be honest,I've got friends and family members who feel exactly the way you do towards Corbyn and the Labour party.

We have to remember the only way that conflict was resolved in NI  was through all parties sitting down and talking together.

The situation with Isis is completely different.
I just don't believe the Tory party with their disastrous foreign policy and cuts to the police and security services are best equipped to deal with it.


The problem is you couldn't sit down and discuss it with ISIS, there is no negotiating with them and I'm not sure why Corbyn thinks he could. The only question is whether we continue to be involved in the military intervention against them or leave others to it. Even if we stayed away we are a Western country thus everything they despise so would always be a target regardless. Iraq was Labours 'foreign policy' so don't see them any more equipped either.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: herthab on Sunday, June 4, 2017, 13:42:19
Seriously, do we really have so many soft liberal bastards in these parts 😂. Macdonald, he's a fucking Marxist if ever their was one, of course Corbyn has his hand in he communist camp. And you accuse me of talking bollocks. In light of the terrorist attacks you should be ashamed to associate with 'friend of the terrorist' Corbyn, and yes he absolutely did say that himself.
Jesus wept, this country is going down the shitter thanks to these cunty 'tolerant' liberals. Make no mistake, labour are not the Labour Party anymore.

Utter drivel.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: The Grim Reaper on Sunday, June 4, 2017, 14:12:31
The thing with politics is many people's voting intention changes on the actual day of the vote itself. I will admit to usually voting Tory (although I'm also responsible for voting Blair in). A couple of months ago it was unthinkable to vote Labour in its current format, although again I will admit leading up to the election Corbyn has easily been the better candidate against May who at times looks a little lost. Although for all we know that could just be the public side of her and behind closed doors she's completely a different person. Up until Thursday I was siding towards Labour as I think they have a more attractive manifesto, whether they can make the numbers hold up remains to be seen. However the last few days I find myself sliding away from Corbyn purely because I think his softly approach to terrorism is dangerous. His idea of sitting down with the likes of ISIS for talks will never happen. These are people that behead you, they won't be interested in tea and biscuits. So the next few days are crucial for all parties in my opinion. Yes the NHS is an important issue as is of course Brexit, but for me the party that convince me the most in the next few days that they have a clear and hard plan on how they will eradicate terrorism will secure my vote.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: pauld on Sunday, June 4, 2017, 14:29:45
I'm no Tory
No need to assert that, you've already amply demonstrated you're considerably further to the right than the Tories


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: hobodan on Sunday, June 4, 2017, 15:03:04
Utter bollocks. Having a backbone has nothing to do with having 'right wing' sympathies.
Although in this day and age, the far right is much more palatable than the far left. Liberalism has taken an extreme turn, just looking at the Labour Party proves that, a typical centre left party harbouring marxists, anti-semites and blatant racists (Dianne Abbot).
I don't like some of the Tory policies, and I would typically be a labour voter, but I'm not going to vote for a gutless cunt like Corbyn. Seriously, what a bunch of chicken chested liberals have we turned into in this country 😂


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Batch on Sunday, June 4, 2017, 15:03:49
soft on terrorism..

I don't believe he will be, but we need a different approach as this one isn't working.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: bennett on Sunday, June 4, 2017, 15:28:31
soft on terrorism..

I don't believe he will be, but we need a different approach as this one isn't working.
Exactly this


Title: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: AldbourneRed on Sunday, June 4, 2017, 15:46:00
Corbyn may not be what you personally look for in a politician, but when you consider many of his actions and causes over the past 40 years it's clear that he is most certainly not a gutless cunt:

http://anotherangryvoice.blogspot.co.uk/2017/06/jeremy-corbyn-was-right-so-many-times.html (http://anotherangryvoice.blogspot.co.uk/2017/06/jeremy-corbyn-was-right-so-many-times.html)


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: pauld on Sunday, June 4, 2017, 15:47:03
Utter bollocks. Having a backbone has nothing to do with having 'right wing' sympathies.
No, but supporting far right political parties does make you a far right supporter. That's kind of how words work.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: hobodan on Sunday, June 4, 2017, 15:56:17
You consider the conservatives 'far right' 😂. I may aswell accuse you of being extreme left? The problem now is people don't associate others as off centre, you are making the mistake of branding people 'far' this & that.
Voting Tory doesn't not mean I value their policies, as far as I'm concerned they are the best of a very bad bunch. I will be using my vote tactically, to keep labour out of power as imo they would be an utter disaster for this country, and I find members of the current Labour Party pretty disgraceful characters. A vote for Corbyn is a vote for being shafted by the EU, a vote for leniency on terrorists, a vote for a man who clearly hates the British history and would love for the UK to dissolve, a vote for a future that I believe puts our children's future in danger.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: pauld on Sunday, June 4, 2017, 16:05:32
You consider the conservatives 'far right' 😂.
No, I said you were. I said "you've already amply demonstrated you're considerably further to the right than the Tories" on the basis of your support on here for Marine Le Pen, a far-right politician, and leader of the far-right Front National. Both of whom are considerably further to the right than the Tories. Due to being far-right. Like you.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: bennett on Sunday, June 4, 2017, 16:06:47
I feel like a diagram is required here Paul


Title: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Batch on Sunday, June 4, 2017, 16:10:55
I'd suggest he did his own diagram if I didn't think he'd eat the crayons.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: The Grim Reaper on Sunday, June 4, 2017, 16:22:46
soft on terrorism..

I don't believe he will be, but we need a different approach as this one isn't working.

Corbyn has already said he is against the shoot to kill policy. The very same policy that ended the terrorists in 8 minutes last night thanks to our armed police. If you believe that any other approach is better then I despair. Terrorists need to know that they will be shot dead end of. Trying to get them to talk over tea and biscuits won't work when they are running amok killing innocent people.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: herthab on Sunday, June 4, 2017, 16:39:44
I wish people would stick to facts, not dress things up with stupid comments designed to provoke an emotional response. Where has Corbyn said he'd sit down with Islamic terrorists over tea and biscuits?

What he actually said is here... http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-politics-34836582/jeremy-corbyn-opposes-shoot-to-kill-policy


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: herthab on Sunday, June 4, 2017, 16:49:09
And another point.

Shoot to kill is absolutely the right thing to do if it prevents an individual from continuing with an attack, but it won't dissuade an Islamic extremist from actually carrying out that attack. It's not a deterrent, these fucking nutjobs want to be matyrs. The focus should be on preventing any attack from starting in the first place.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: The Grim Reaper on Sunday, June 4, 2017, 16:49:38
I'm well aware of what he actually said. He has also said in the past he would prefer to talk to Isis rather than engage in war. Not sure Isis are an organisation that does talks so I'd like to know why Corbyn thinks he can? My point is last nights response by the police was the correct and only option.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: The Grim Reaper on Sunday, June 4, 2017, 16:52:12
The focus should be on preventing any attack from starting in the first place.

Nail. Head. Hit.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Nomoreheroes on Sunday, June 4, 2017, 17:14:12
And another point.

Shoot to kill is absolutely the right thing to do if it prevents an individual from continuing with an attack, but it won't dissuade an Islamic extremist from actually carrying out that attack. It's not a deterrent, these fucking nutjobs want to be matyrs. The focus should be on preventing any attack from starting in the first place.
I think the PM said today that 5 attacks had been prevented since March.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Nemo on Sunday, June 4, 2017, 17:17:28
Not really up for a debate on terrorism as it's depressing as hell but on Brexit, Corbyn wouldn't be the one doing the negotiating - the shadow Brexit secretary is Sir Keir Starmer, the former director of public prosecutions and one of the best lawyers in the land. On CV alone, he should be a much stronger Brexit negotiator than David Davis.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Reg Smeeton on Sunday, June 4, 2017, 17:23:59
This is the sort of thing voting Tory gets you.

http://www.swindonadvertiser.co.uk/news/15327440.Overgrown_grass_causing_headaches_for_residents/?ref=mrb&lp=1

 :)


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: The Grim Reaper on Sunday, June 4, 2017, 17:51:16
This is the sort of thing voting Tory gets you.

http://www.swindonadvertiser.co.uk/news/15327440.Overgrown_grass_causing_headaches_for_residents/?ref=mrb&lp=1

Vote Labour and your rubbish doesn't get collected for months!
Anyway this is a non story, if long grass is all there is to worry about maybe the locals should get their own mowers out.

 :)


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: herthab on Sunday, June 4, 2017, 18:03:04
I think the PM said today that 5 attacks had been prevented since March.

And there has been 2 in 6 days that weren't prevented. Party politics aside, that's 2 too many.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Nomoreheroes on Sunday, June 4, 2017, 18:12:40
And there has been 2 in 6 days that weren't prevented. Party politics aside, that's 2 too many.
True. But, again, party politics aside, I don't think anyone knows how to put a 100% stop to them.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Reg Smeeton on Sunday, June 4, 2017, 18:17:59

Vote Labour and your rubbish doesn't get collected for months!
Anyway this is a non story, if long grass is all there is to worry about maybe the locals should get their own mowers out.


You realise that this is our very own Jo don't you?


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Batch on Sunday, June 4, 2017, 18:19:46
I'd love to see my flymo tackle that. 25 seconds, smoke and lawnmower death .

how about the contractors do their fucking job


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: donkey on Sunday, June 4, 2017, 19:46:20
I'd love to see my flymo tackle that. 25 seconds, smoke and lawnmower death .

how about the contractors do their fucking job

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=1rSK_MnDOXs


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: StfcRusty on Sunday, June 4, 2017, 20:48:04
Seriously, do we really have so many soft liberal bastards in these parts 😂. Macdonald, he's a fucking Marxist if ever their was one, of course Corbyn has his hand in he communist camp. And you accuse me of talking bollocks. In light of the terrorist attacks you should be ashamed to associate with 'friend of the terrorist' Corbyn, and yes he absolutely did say that himself.
Jesus wept, this country is going down the shitter thanks to these cunty 'tolerant' liberals. Make no mistake, labour are not the Labour Party anymore.

Are you Jim Davidson?


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Sir Cliff Pipehard on Sunday, June 4, 2017, 22:02:36

What Corbyn actually said about killing terrorists on our streets and how the BBC tried to twist it.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-38666914

Notice how they hid this story in the Entertainment and Arts section.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Sir Cliff Pipehard on Sunday, June 4, 2017, 22:19:52

This is former Met Police Inspector Peter Kirkham pulling no punches  with his views on this government and their attitude towards policing.

https://youtu.be/4OND_s2xOz8





Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: skiptotheLouMacari on Sunday, June 4, 2017, 22:33:59
Nail. Head. Hit.

Yes, but even with the best intelligence services In the world we do not know what Abdul Mohammed and Tariq sitting round the coffee table are thinking or plotting. Interment and isolation for hate preachers sympathisers returning jihdists if born in UK or instant deportation of not. The Mosques that are known radicalisation hot spots need shutting down until the Islamic community understands this can't go on.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Flashheart on Sunday, June 4, 2017, 22:44:12
The Mosques that are known radicalisation hot spots need shutting down until the Islamic community understands this can't go on.

That'll just force them underground.

Best to leave them up and running where they can be monitored.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Sir Cliff Pipehard on Sunday, June 4, 2017, 22:47:16
The problem is you couldn't sit down and discuss it with ISIS, there is no negotiating with them and I'm not sure why Corbyn thinks he could. The only question is whether we continue to be involved in the military intervention against them or leave others to it. Even if we stayed away we are a Western country thus everything they despise so would always be a target regardless. Iraq was Labours 'foreign policy' so don't see them any more equipped either.

I think you're confusing Corbyn with Owen Smith

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/aug/17/isis-should-get-round-the-table-with-uk-middle-east-says-owen-smith-labour?CMP=share_btn_link

Assad  has been fighting Isis yet we've bombed him, so not sure what our position is to be honest.

Iraq was "New" Labour's foreign policy,which Corbyn vehemently opposed.






Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: mystical_goat on Sunday, June 4, 2017, 23:05:57
Yes, but even with the best intelligence services In the world we do not know what Abdul Mohammed and Tariq sitting round the coffee table are thinking or plotting.

Dave and Kev, or worse still nobody at all, are hardly going to figure it out though.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: theakston2k on Sunday, June 4, 2017, 23:17:15
I think you're confusing Corbyn with Owen Smith

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/aug/17/isis-should-get-round-the-table-with-uk-middle-east-says-owen-smith-labour?CMP=share_btn_link

Assad  has been fighting Isis yet we've bombed him, so not sure what our position is to be honest.

Iraq was "New" Labour's foreign policy,which Corbyn vehemently opposed.





Nah Corbyn has been down a similar road saying we can talk to them through the diplomatic back channels. It was one of the things that caused the fall out with Hilary Benn when he Benn pretty much said it was nonsense.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Sir Cliff Pipehard on Sunday, June 4, 2017, 23:46:47
Nah Corbyn has been down a similar road saying we can talk to them through the diplomatic back channels. It was one of the things that caused the fall out with Hilary Benn when he Benn pretty much said it was nonsense.

He explains what he means by that in this interview:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/jeremy-corbyn-says-there-could-be-benefits-to-opening-diplomatic-back-channels-with-isis-a6817181.html

Keeping a channel of potential communication open could be to our advantage,and is definitely not negotiating with these pieces of shit.






Sent from my Samsung Galaxy smartphone.



Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: skiptotheLouMacari on Monday, June 5, 2017, 07:17:55
That'll just force them underground.

Best to leave them up and running where they can be monitored.

Understood, however we're monitoring them now and still cannot prevent all attacks.
The only deterrent is isolated internment, don't allow the satisfaction of death and martyrdom, no questions asked support those not originally from UK and the families. 


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: pauld on Monday, June 5, 2017, 08:35:59
Of course, when the intelligence services are monitoring known terrorist fighters, it might also help if the government didn't decide to lift all travel restrictions on them to enable to go back to their country of origin to fight in a revolution that happened to be aligned to our foreign policy objectives at the time. As was the case with the Manchester bomber and his family, members of the Libyan Islamic Fighting Group, an al-Qaida allied Islamist group that were also vehemently anti-Gaddafi. And so were allowed to return to Libya to fight against Gaddafi. Home Secretary at the time? Theresa May

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/may/24/bombers-father-fought-against-gaddafi-regime-with-terrorist-group

That would be the same Theresa May who is currently suppressing publication of the government report on terrorist funding and support in this country because it shows there is a huge influx of funding and support from Saudi Wahabbi extremists. Which might be embarrassing when she was just over there a few weeks ago, flogging them billions worth of arms.

Say what you like about Corbyn being soft on terrorists, at least he's not actively enabling them.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: horlock07 on Monday, June 5, 2017, 09:30:08
Understood, however we're monitoring them now and still cannot prevent all attacks.
The only deterrent is isolated internment, don't allow the satisfaction of death and martyrdom, no questions asked support those not originally from UK and the families. 

And interment isn't going to create martyrs and act as a recruiting aid?


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: skiptotheLouMacari on Monday, June 5, 2017, 09:47:09
And interment isn't going to create martyrs and act as a recruiting aid?

Well they're certainly not going to radicalise anymore naive impressionable or law abiding Muslims


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Sir Cliff Pipehard on Monday, June 5, 2017, 09:50:09
Of course, when the intelligence services are monitoring known terrorist fighters, it might also help if the government didn't decide to lift all travel restrictions on them to enable to go back to their country of origin to fight in a revolution that happened to be aligned to our foreign policy objectives at the time. As was the case with the Manchester bomber and his family, members of the Libyan Islamic Fighting Group, an al-Qaida allied Islamist group that were also vehemently anti-Gaddafi. And so were allowed to return to Libya to fight against Gaddafi. Home Secretary at the time? Theresa May

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/may/24/bombers-father-fought-against-gaddafi-regime-with-terrorist-group

That would be the same Theresa May who is currently suppressing publication of the government report on terrorist funding and support in this country because it shows there is a huge influx of funding and support from Saudi Wahabbi extremists. Which might be embarrassing when she was just over there a few weeks ago, flogging them billions worth of arms.

Say what you like about Corbyn being soft on terrorists, at least he's not actively enabling them.

Fantastic post,says it all really .


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: pauld on Monday, June 5, 2017, 09:56:39
Well they're certainly not going to radicalise anymore naive impressionable or law abiding Muslims
Internment did precisely that when used in N Ireland - "the best recruiting sergeant the IRA ever had"


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: skiptotheLouMacari on Monday, June 5, 2017, 09:58:15
Internment did precisely that when used in N Ireland - "the best recruiting sergeant the IRA ever had"

That's it then,  let them roam the streets free to slaughter innocent civilians. Better that than upset the little luvvies


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: skiptotheLouMacari on Monday, June 5, 2017, 10:01:00
Internment did precisely that when used in N Ireland - "the best recruiting sergeant the IRA ever had"

Out of curiosity Pauld what do you think is the best course of action?


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: horlock07 on Monday, June 5, 2017, 10:05:20
Well they're certainly not going to radicalise anymore naive impressionable or law abiding Muslims

You do realise that even if it has a religious basis (it doesn't) ISIS represents only a small part of Islam (Sunni - they hate the Shia probably as much as they hate us), its like saying that due to the issues with the IRA and Catholics we should intern any Christians irrelevant of which ever strand of that overarching ideology they adhere to?


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Bathtime on Monday, June 5, 2017, 10:08:05
Eh - how come we just don`t hear anything from Diane Abbot on recent events - it seems the Labour Party has turned into a one man band??


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: skiptotheLouMacari on Monday, June 5, 2017, 10:14:56
You do realise that even if it has a religious basis (it doesn't) ISIS represents only a small part of Islam (Sunni - they hate the Shia probably as much as they hate us), its like saying that due to the issues with the IRA and Catholics we should intern any Christians irrelevant of which ever strand of that overarching ideology they adhere to?

Did I say round them all up? No I didn't, what I did say was those known to the intelligence services the hate preachers the sympathisers.
I understand the difference between the tribal factions of Islam and again I didn't say it was all Muslims, but what you're saying is vet all Muslims and if you're Sunni you're out.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Chubbs on Monday, June 5, 2017, 10:21:19
Eh - how come we just don`t hear anything from Diane Abbot on recent events - it seems the Labour Party has turned into a one man band??
because she's busy filming the new season of Bo Selecta?


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: thepeoplesgame on Monday, June 5, 2017, 10:21:28
Say what you like about Corbyn being soft on terrorists, at least he's not actively enabling them.

Quite.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: pauld on Monday, June 5, 2017, 10:41:03
That's it then,  let them roam the streets free to slaughter innocent civilians. Better that than upset the little luvvies
Well, yes, clearly that's the only alternative to a strategy that's been tried before and been proven to make matters worse not better. :rolleyes:

Out of curiosity Pauld what do you think is the best course of action?

I'd suggest that the intelligence services and police work together to prosecute those who commit or are conspiring to commit criminal actions. It's called the rule of law, it's how democracies function.

Knee-jerk reactions to terrorist threats server only to strengthen terrorists. They want us to dismantle our democracy.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: skiptotheLouMacari on Monday, June 5, 2017, 11:41:13
Well, yes, clearly that's the only alternative to a strategy that's been tried before and been proven to make matters worse not better. :rolleyes:
I'd suggest that the intelligence services and police work together to prosecute those who commit or are conspiring to commit criminal actions. It's called the rule of law, it's how democracies function.

Knee-jerk reactions to terrorist threats server only to strengthen terrorists. They want us to dismantle our democracy.

Yes let the police prosecute them, then what? Put them in a prison with access to all other fundamentalists and impressionables. The wheel keeps turning.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Nomoreheroes on Monday, June 5, 2017, 11:43:58
'Round 'em up, stick 'em in a field and bomb the b*stards!'

(http://i1.wp.com/www.polarimagazine.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/Kenny.jpg?fit=299%2C299)


Title: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Batch on Monday, June 5, 2017, 12:03:37
Quote
Eh - how come we just don`t hear anything from Diane Abbot on recent events - it seems the Labour Party has turned into a one man band??
because she an incompetent disaster.

Tories doing the same with May and Boris.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Ardiles on Monday, June 5, 2017, 12:23:17
High risk stuff from Corbyn this morning, saying May should resign over cuts to Police numbers.  Risks accusations of politicising tragic, recent events.  But strategically, could do huge damage to May's 'strong & stable' brand just days before the vote.  Calculation, possibly, that he has little to lose so might as well go for it.  It's going to be an interesting - and ugly - final few days.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Ardiles on Monday, June 5, 2017, 12:24:50
It was also high risk from the Tories at the outset in pinning so much of their message to the personality & attributes of the party leader.  The winner will get to write the history, so only time will tell which gamble was the best-advised.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: RedRag on Monday, June 5, 2017, 12:31:02
You do realise that even if it has a religious basis (it doesn't) ISIS represents only a small part of Islam (Sunni - they hate the Shia probably as much as they hate us), its like saying that due to the issues with the IRA and Catholics we should intern any Christians irrelevant of which ever strand of that overarching ideology they adhere to?
Just Catholics rather than all Christians to be interned?  Oh, that is what actually happened and it fuelled the terror rather than controlled it.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: horlock07 on Monday, June 5, 2017, 12:45:02
High risk stuff from Corbyn this morning, saying May should resign over cuts to Police numbers.  Risks accusations of politicising tragic, recent events.  But strategically, could do huge damage to May's 'strong & stable' brand just days before the vote.  Calculation, possibly, that he has little to lose so might as well go for it.  It's going to be an interesting - and ugly - final few days.

If there wasn't an election on he would say the same and many would agree, as for politicising I think May started that process when she started waving her dick about yesterday, making nonsensical comments about the internet (again) and trying to deflect the fact that this has all happened on her watch, both as PM and Home Secretary.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Batch on Monday, June 5, 2017, 12:49:02
High risk stuff from Corbyn this morning, saying May should resign over cuts to Police numbers.  Risks accusations of politicising tragic, recent events.

Its an interesting one, because how soon is too soon to talk?

The Tories have made a massive thing over Corbyn not being able to protect Britain. Boris was at it 2 days ago. Not that long after Manchester.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: horlock07 on Monday, June 5, 2017, 13:09:33
Its an interesting one, because how soon is too soon to talk?

The Tories have made a massive thing over Corbyn not being able to protect Britain. Boris was at it 2 days ago. Not that long after Manchester.

Whats Corbyn supposed to do, ignore it when the Police are saying this?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y127h8iL3Z4

Edit - This wasn't a pop BTW...


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Batch on Monday, June 5, 2017, 13:21:48
quite


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Arriba on Monday, June 5, 2017, 13:28:07
I watched May bumble her way through her prepared speech this morning. She then dodged questions regarding cuts to police and didn't give a single straight answer to anything.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Chubbs on Monday, June 5, 2017, 13:32:33
I watched May bumble her way through her prepared speech this morning. She then dodged questions regarding cuts to police and didn't give a single straight answer to anything.


She should take a note from Amber Rudds book of "If you don't like what your hearing, pass a note to the chair and have the mic taken away from them"


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: horlock07 on Monday, June 5, 2017, 13:33:43
I watched May bumble her way through her prepared speech this morning. She then dodged questions regarding cuts to police and didn't give a single straight answer to anything.


So a standard May interview then...


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: horlock07 on Monday, June 5, 2017, 13:36:24
She should take a note from Amber Rudds book of "If you don't like what your hearing, pass a note to the chair and have the mic taken away from them"

In case anyone missed it....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TEcMW6RmC_w


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Chubbs on Monday, June 5, 2017, 13:37:15
Thanks horlock.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Ardiles on Monday, June 5, 2017, 13:39:57
I am trying - and failing - to think of a politician whose answers to straight-forward questions have been as consistently evasive as Theresa May's.  Not 'strong & stable' at all for me.  Shifty, unsure of herself, terrified of being found out at any moment.  The mask slipped a few weeks back, and she's been unable to put it back on properly.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Flashheart on Monday, June 5, 2017, 13:45:18
A friend of mine posted on FB this morning a video of a Tory MP answering questions. It was in Cornwall I think. 

On the subject of food banks, she said she was pleased that there are food banks. Obviously this drew an angry response from the crowd. She then went on to complain about those protesting at her remark, and told the room to ignore them.

I can't find a link to it.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: horlock07 on Monday, June 5, 2017, 13:47:06
I am trying - and failing - to think of a politician whose answers to straight-forward questions have been as consistently evasive as Theresa May's.  Not 'strong & stable' at all for me.  Shifty, unsure of herself, terrified of being found out at any moment.  The mask slipped a few weeks back, and she's been unable to put it back on properly.

I said ages back, with Cameron unless you were actively and carefully listening he at least gave the impression of answering the question asked and not bullshitting to do so, with May (and Rudd, Greening, Davis, Fallon) its just so clear that they are unwilling or unable to answer the question or lying through their teeth its actually quite painful to listen and keep a straight face.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: horlock07 on Monday, June 5, 2017, 13:48:23
A friend of mine posted on FB this morning a video of a Tory MP answering questions. It was in Cornwall I think. 

On the subject of food banks, she said she was pleased that there are food banks. Obviously this drew an angry response from the crowd. She then went on to complain about those protesting at her remark, and told the room to ignore them.

I can't find a link to it.

Viola....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V8aRD9DNDsI


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Chubbs on Monday, June 5, 2017, 13:48:54
A friend of mine posted on FB this morning a video of a Tory MP answering questions. It was in Cornwall I think.  

On the subject of food banks, she said she was pleased that there are food banks. Obviously this drew an angry response from the crowd. She then went on to complain about those protesting at her remark, and told the room to ignore them.

I can't find a link to it.
I was about add to my previous comment "or you can call the police when members of public dare challenge you" in reference to the clip you have mentioned FH


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Chubbs on Monday, June 5, 2017, 13:49:35
always ahead of the game is horlock.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: herthab on Monday, June 5, 2017, 13:49:38
I said ages back, with Cameron unless you were actively and carefully listening he at least gave the impression of answering the question asked and not bullshitting to do so, with May (and Rudd, Greening, Davis, Fallon) its just so clear that they are unwilling or unable to answer the question or lying through their teeth its actually quite painful to listen and keep a straight face.

Which makes it all the more unfathomable that there is still a large number of people willing to put up with the cunts...


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: horlock07 on Monday, June 5, 2017, 13:52:44
always ahead of the game is horlock.

Am I bollocks, I had a bet on Bowyer being the new manager!  ;)


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Flashheart on Monday, June 5, 2017, 13:53:37
Viola....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V8aRD9DNDsI

Chello.  :D


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Chubbs on Monday, June 5, 2017, 14:03:03
Can't stand the bell-end but fair play to him on this
https://youtu.be/9IVBLbyfMaA


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: pauld on Monday, June 5, 2017, 14:17:13
She was on Radio 4 this morning, trying desperately not to admit that there are now less armed police than there were when the Tories took office. She admitted it eventually, but said in mitigation that that was because there were less police all round. Well, that's fine then.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: horlock07 on Monday, June 5, 2017, 14:28:26
She was on Radio 4 this morning, trying desperately not to admit that there are now less armed police than there were when the Tories took office. She admitted it eventually, but said in mitigation that that was because there were less police all round. Well, that's fine then.

Why the hell are the Tories sending out the Culture Secretary to answer such questions, I assume Rudd (The Home Secretary who is presently responsible) is such damaged goods that she has become a laughing stock whilst May doesn't mix with the plebs?


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: RedRag on Monday, June 5, 2017, 14:37:22
Wouldn't defend May but I thought (as objectively as I am able) that Rudd put in a decent performance on Question Time last Thursday.  That was just 4 days after her father's death.

It would seem that there are other quite plausible reasons therefore, other than having become a laughing stock, for Rudd not to be doing the media briefings this morning.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: pauld on Monday, June 5, 2017, 14:39:16
Wouldn't defend May but I thought (as objectively as I am able) that Rudd put in a decent performance on Question Time last Thursday.  That was just 4 days after her father's death.

It would seem that there are other quite plausible reasons therefore, other than having become a laughing stock, for Rudd not to be doing the media briefings this morning.
Well, presumably because she's Home Secretary and might well therefore be tied up in post-London Bridge meetings etc


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: horlock07 on Monday, June 5, 2017, 14:41:07
Wouldn't defend May but I thought (as objectively as I am able) that Rudd put in a decent performance on Question Time last Thursday.  That was just 4 days after her father's death.

It would seem that there are other quite plausible reasons therefore, other than having become a laughing stock, for Rudd not to be doing the media briefings this morning.

Setting aside what sending Rudd (whose skeletons may finally appear now after the passing of her father) out to take the shit last week in light of her circumstances said about May, are we really to believe that in light of the scale of the events of the weekend the fucking Culture Secretary is really the most senior politician they could find to answer questions on a topic completely unrelated to their brief.

Might as well have sent the Downing Street Cat, who made a welcome appearance yesterday, probably would be better at answering questions, especially if food was offered.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: horlock07 on Monday, June 5, 2017, 14:49:33
Unsurprisingly there is unrest in the ranks, its like Thatcher all over again.

http://uk.businessinsider.com/theresa-may-blamed-for-london-bridge-terror-attack-by-top-cameron-aide-steve-hilton-2017-6?r=UK&IR=T

Cue the Labour leaflets, Vote May get Boris, Rudd, Leadsom??


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: RedRag on Monday, June 5, 2017, 15:28:37
Might as well have sent the Downing Street Cat, who made a welcome appearance yesterday, probably would be better at answering questions, especially if food was offered.
Tend to agree but I would have put the Cameron-ennobled Sir Michael Fallon just ahead of the Downing Street cat in Rudd's absence.  Food might not have swung it but I'm sure an "honour" for his wife would have sufficed.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: theakston2k on Monday, June 5, 2017, 16:19:30
Which makes it all the more unfathomable that there is still a large number of people willing to put up with the cunts...
It's called the lack of a credible opposition.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: bennett on Monday, June 5, 2017, 18:19:12
Viola....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V8aRD9DNDsI
That is utter bullshit. What a fucking weapon


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: herthab on Monday, June 5, 2017, 18:47:22
It's called the lack of a credible opposition.

Nah.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Berniman on Monday, June 5, 2017, 21:41:51
Nah.

He's got a point..


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Chubbs on Monday, June 5, 2017, 22:16:02
Fuck me, Diane Abbott is a fucking blubbering mess. Corbyn needs to get rid. She's a mess. Even when Amber Rudd is avoiding questions, or spouting lies, at least she does it with conviction and composure.

This is in reference to her recent appearance on sky. Horlock, if you would be so kind....


Title: Re: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: horlock07 on Monday, June 5, 2017, 22:36:31
Fuck me, Diane Abbott is a fucking blubbering mess. Corbyn needs to get rid. She's a mess. Even when Amber Rudd is avoiding questions, or spouting lies, at least she does it with conviction and composure.

This is in reference to her recent appearance on sky. Horlock, if you would be so kind....

Apologies I am only available for finding you tube clips during working hours 😉

Plus I am away darn south for the next two days so you will all have to find your political comedy yourselves.....

Edit - cos you piqued my interest and I am here to provide a service... This one?

https://youtu.be/yQ2l8Cs-Lc4


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Pax Romana on Tuesday, June 6, 2017, 08:28:47
The three issues the Tories can always rely on to work for them are financial probity, defence and law & order.  Incredibly May is managing to lose on law & order against a man who has consistently voted against counter-terrorism measures introduced by successive labour governments.

I wouldn't have believed it a few weeks ago but I'm not sure how anyone would credibly answer the question "what makes you think that Teresa May would be any less catastrophic for the people of this country than Jeremy Corbyn?"

You couldn't make it up.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Chubbs on Tuesday, June 6, 2017, 08:38:52
Apologies I am only available for finding you tube clips during working hours 😉

Plus I am away darn south for the next two days so you will all have to find your political comedy yourselves.....

Edit - cos you piqued my interest and I am here to provide a service... This one?

https://youtu.be/yQ2l8Cs-Lc4

As if by magic. :-)


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: pauld on Tuesday, June 6, 2017, 08:52:31
The three issues the Tories can always rely on to work for them are financial probity, defence and law & order.  Incredibly May is managing to lose on law & order against a man who has consistently voted against counter-terrorism measures introduced by successive labour governments.

I wouldn't have believed it a few weeks ago but I'm not sure how anyone would credibly answer the question "what makes you think that Teresa May would be any less catastrophic for the people of this country than Jeremy Corbyn?"

You couldn't make it up.
Looking at the car crash that Brexit is going to be this looks like being a good election to lose, let someone else carry the can of what is going to be an unholy fucking mess. I think I said this a few days ago, but the thought keeps coming back to me that the Tories might have stared into the abyss and decided to chuck it. I don't yet believe it, but every time I see or hear May, Rudd, Fallon, Johnson, it gets all the stronger.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: pauld on Tuesday, June 6, 2017, 09:03:40
Diane Abbott pulled out of the Woman's Hour election phone-in special because of "illness". Chinny reckon :)


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Pax Romana on Tuesday, June 6, 2017, 09:16:16
Looking at the car crash that Brexit is going to be this looks like being a good election to lose, let someone else carry the can of what is going to be an unholy fucking mess. I think I said this a few days ago, but the thought keeps coming back to me that the Tories might have stared into the abyss and decided to chuck it. I don't yet believe it, but every time I see or hear May, Rudd, Fallon, Johnson, it gets all the stronger.
I can see why you say that.  Like you, I don't actually believe it (why would May annihilate herself for the good of the next Tory leader?  She's an idiot not a selfless patriot) but you are right that it's probably a good one to lose.  A struggling Corbyn minority government could easily be followed by a huge Tory majority in a few years time.  Two frightening thoughts rolled into one.



Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Chubbs on Tuesday, June 6, 2017, 09:21:53
Diane Abbott pulled out of the Woman's Hour election phone-in special because of "illness". Chinny reckon :)
Or Corbyn told her to climb into a dark hole and don't surface until after Friday


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Nemo on Tuesday, June 6, 2017, 09:23:53
I'm still very surprised at how much of a Horlicks Theresa May's team (previously the Conservatives) have made of this election but still think they're going to win and win by a very good margin. I've just put some bets on exactly that to soften the blow...


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: pauld on Tuesday, June 6, 2017, 09:58:48
I can see why you say that.  Like you, I don't actually believe it (why would May annihilate herself for the good of the next Tory leader?  She's an idiot not a selfless patriot) but you are right that it's probably a good one to lose.  A struggling Corbyn minority government could easily be followed by a huge Tory majority in a few years time.  Two frightening thoughts rolled into one.
Hoping for the other way round ...
I'm still very surprised at how much of a Horlicks Theresa May's team (previously the Conservatives) have made of this election but still think they're going to win and win by a very good margin. I've just put some bets on exactly that to soften the blow...
.. but have a horrible feeling Nemo's right. Everyone's getting carried away with the polls, which we all know they don't translate into seats, and while the Momentum (pun intended) may well be with Labour it's not enough to close the gap sufficiently.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: herthab on Tuesday, June 6, 2017, 10:20:29
The thought of another 5 years of Tory austerity doesn't appeal at all, but I don't think Labour, unfortunately, has enough widespread appeal to defeat them.

Trying to console yourselves by thinking that the conservatives will fuck up Brexit, thereby enabling Labour to grow their vote sufficiently to win the election in 5 years time, shouldn't sweeten the pill at all. In 5 years time what will the NHS look like? Or other vital public services? How many more people will be living in poverty?

I've never voted Labour in a general election before, but they are the only credible opposition here. I've not read or heard anything to convince me that the tories are trustworthy, or have a better plan. Their campaign has been more about trying to discredit Corbyn than what they will do. Together with sound bites on being 'strong & stable' and 'making the tough decisions'. Unfortunately their 'tough decisions' only appear to be tough on people that aren't part of their elite club.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Ardiles on Tuesday, June 6, 2017, 11:33:36
Looking at the car crash that Brexit is going to be this looks like being a good election to lose, let someone else carry the can of what is going to be an unholy fucking mess. I think I said this a few days ago, but the thought keeps coming back to me that the Tories might have stared into the abyss and decided to chuck it. I don't yet believe it, but every time I see or hear May, Rudd, Fallon, Johnson, it gets all the stronger.

Having heard Johnson on the Today Programme earlier - bombastic, playground bully in full flow - I'm starting to wonder whether you may have a point.  Turned my stomach (& hopefully a few others as well).

Hoping for the other way round ..... but have a horrible feeling Nemo's right. Everyone's getting carried away with the polls, which we all know they don't translate into seats, and while the Momentum (pun intended) may well be with Labour it's not enough to close the gap sufficiently.

I'm pinning my hopes not on the Tories failing to win an outright majority.  As you say, that is probably asking too much.  But I would expect May's authority - and thus, her ability to drive through a damaging 'Hard Brexit' - will be irreparably damaged if her political gamble fails to generate the significant improvement in working majority that she was aiming for.

The Working Government Majority stood at 17 on the day she called the election.  If that figure does not top 50 on Friday morning, I think she will be deemed to have failed - and if it falls below 17, she will be finished.  After running one of the most disingenuous, evasive political campaigns in recent memory – in which she ran away from her own record and manifestly failed to address key issues head on – I’m hoping for the latter.  And it will be no more than she deserves.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: chalkies_shorts on Tuesday, June 6, 2017, 11:41:50
I'm pinning my hopes not on the Tories failing to win an outright majority.  As you say, that is probably asking too much.  But I would expect May's authority - and thus, her ability to drive through a damaging 'Hard Brexit' - will be irreparably damaged if her political gamble fails to generate the significant improvement in working majority that she was aiming for.
Here's hoping for a Hard Brexit.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Bob's Orange on Tuesday, June 6, 2017, 13:55:23
The thought of another 5 years of Tory austerity doesn't appeal at all, but I don't think Labour, unfortunately, has enough widespread appeal to defeat them.

Trying to console yourselves by thinking that the conservatives will fuck up Brexit, thereby enabling Labour to grow their vote sufficiently to win the election in 5 years time, shouldn't sweeten the pill at all. In 5 years time what will the NHS look like? Or other vital public services? How many more people will be living in poverty?

I've never voted Labour in a general election before, but they are the only credible opposition here. I've not read or heard anything to convince me that the tories are trustworthy, or have a better plan. Their campaign has been more about trying to discredit Corbyn than what they will do. Together with sound bites on being 'strong & stable' and 'making the tough decisions'. Unfortunately their 'tough decisions' only appear to be tough on people that aren't part of their elite club.

I'm with you. Annoyingly my local MP is Tory and is actually quite good but I just can't vote for them in the GE so I am thinking Labour now.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Wobbly Bob on Tuesday, June 6, 2017, 16:48:43
 I wonder how many voters will be in a quandry in the voting booths on Thursday, along the lines of:-

I'll be a few quid better off per year under the Tories, but Stephen Hawking, arguably one of the most intelligent people on the planet, has endorsed Labour. Shit, what do I do.

I like that in some countries people get their kids to put the ballot paper in the box. Fixed terms and the cyclic nature of the party political merry go round are maybe not conducive to people prioritizing the future of their children's children when voting.

Dystopia. Coming soon.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: horlock07 on Tuesday, June 6, 2017, 18:08:36
This kind of sums up my feelings about the whole fucking shebang....

http://twohundredpercent.net/podcast-96-general-election-special/


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: adje on Tuesday, June 6, 2017, 18:34:47
The thought of another 5 years of Tory austerity doesn't appeal at all, but I don't think Labour, unfortunately, has enough widespread appeal to defeat them.

Trying to console yourselves by thinking that the conservatives will fuck up Brexit, thereby enabling Labour to grow their vote sufficiently to win the election in 5 years time, shouldn't sweeten the pill at all. In 5 years time what will the NHS look like? Or other vital public services? How many more people will be living in poverty?

I've never voted Labour in a general election before, but they are the only credible opposition here. I've not read or heard anything to convince me that the tories are trustworthy, or have a better plan. Their campaign has been more about trying to discredit Corbyn than what they will do. Together with sound bites on being 'strong & stable' and 'making the tough decisions'. Unfortunately their 'tough decisions' only appear to be tough on people that aren't part of their elite club.

Not quite "tough" enough to stick to their "tough decisions" though,hey?


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Chubbs on Wednesday, June 7, 2017, 09:19:14
Diane Abbott is "taking a break" and has been replaced by Lyn Brown.

I feel sorry for Diane, but there is clearly something not right and the recent bullying from the tories has been a step too far.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: horlock07 on Wednesday, June 7, 2017, 09:21:01
Diane Abbott is "taking a break" and has been replaced by Lyn Brown.

I feel sorry for Diane, but there is clearly something not right and the recent bullying from the tories has been a step too far.

For many Tories there are two key problems with Diane Abbott which make her fair game.

Sadly being inept is not one of them.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Flashheart on Wednesday, June 7, 2017, 09:24:21
I've seen a lot of people say they'd vote Labour if it were not for Abbott. I wonder what excuse they'll use now.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Chubbs on Wednesday, June 7, 2017, 09:35:45
I've seen a lot of people say they'd vote Labour if it were not for Abbott. I wonder what excuse they'll use now.
Hopefully there wont be one and they will now vote Labour. One can hope


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: pauld on Wednesday, June 7, 2017, 09:43:02
Diane Abbott is "taking a break" and has been replaced by Lyn Brown.

I feel sorry for Diane, but there is clearly something not right and the recent bullying from the tories has been a step too far.
tbf, she's clearly not up to the job. Not sure she's been "bullied" any more than any high-profile politician who keeps fucking up would be (although it baffles me how Michael Fallon doesn't seem to get the same level of flak). She was put in a very high profile position where people taking a pop at you is part of the job, and she just wasn't up to it. Same as Theresa May, actually


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Tails on Wednesday, June 7, 2017, 10:03:35
tbf, she's clearly not up to the job. Not sure she's been "bullied" any more than any high-profile politician who keeps fucking up would be (although it baffles me how Michael Fallon doesn't seem to get the same level of flak). She was put in a very high profile position where people taking a pop at you is part of the job, and she just wasn't up to it. Same as Theresa May, actually

Yep. 100% this.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Batch on Wednesday, June 7, 2017, 10:43:39
tbf, she's clearly not up to the job. Not sure she's been "bullied" any more than any high-profile politician who keeps fucking up would be (although it baffles me how Michael Fallon doesn't seem to get the same level of flak). She was put in a very high profile position where people taking a pop at you is part of the job, and she just wasn't up to it. Same as Theresa May, actually

Yup.



Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: LucienSanchez on Wednesday, June 7, 2017, 20:13:07
Well, Tom Smith has come out as a Tory on Twitter... is a shame, I was hoping he'd get a new contract!


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: corner on Wednesday, June 7, 2017, 20:36:31
Well, Tom Smith has come out as a Tory on Twitter... is a shame, I was hoping he'd get a new contract!
Ha ha jokes aside I reckon he has....


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: StfcRusty on Wednesday, June 7, 2017, 22:06:07
For the undecided amongst you, here is a neutral take on who to vote for and why.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: StfcRusty on Wednesday, June 7, 2017, 22:07:25
For the undecided amongst you, here is a neutral take on who to vote for and why.

They missed off one from the list - "Would introduce Leveson in full"


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Legends-Lounge on Wednesday, June 7, 2017, 22:19:31
If you think chairman Corbinski is going to get the keys to No10 and you're going abroad for two weeks R&R as a member of the few get your currency now.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: StfcRusty on Wednesday, June 7, 2017, 22:29:21
If you think chairman Corbinski is going to get the keys to No10 and you're going abroad for two weeks R&R as a member of the few get your currency now.

Yes because the pound has been doing so well lately


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Legends-Lounge on Wednesday, June 7, 2017, 23:10:34
Yes because the pound has been doing so well lately
In relation to what it will be yes. Get yours tomorrow comrade. For the many € not the few €, or $. Travel destinations may vary.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Arriba on Thursday, June 8, 2017, 08:50:31
For the undecided amongst you, here is a neutral take on who to vote for and why.

If people are stupid enough to believe that filthy rag then they deserve everything they get.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Arriba on Thursday, June 8, 2017, 08:51:24
If you think chairman Corbinski is going to get the keys to No10 and you're going abroad for two weeks R&R as a member of the few get your currency now.

I didn't know you were Martin Lewis. 👋


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Batch on Thursday, June 8, 2017, 09:09:15
my pointless x has been cast


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Batch on Thursday, June 8, 2017, 09:12:51
Quote from: Arriba
Quote
For the undecided amongst you, here is a neutral take on who to vote for and why.
If people are stupid enough to believe that filthy rag then they deserve everything they get.

unfortunately they are. not all of them obviously, but if that's your main source of news....

I've cast my pointless x. if Tomlinson had bitten heads off babies he'd still get in.

from polls it looks like an increased Tory majority. disappointing but not the landslide it had looked. still (imo ) fucks over the country, but what can you do.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Abrahammer on Thursday, June 8, 2017, 09:19:01
Still can't decide who to vote for.  Not that it matters in my constituency or nationally, both are easy Tory victories.

Can see myself just going with gut instinct in the polling booth


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Simon Pieman on Thursday, June 8, 2017, 09:22:42
If you're unsure of who to vote for then go to this excellent site to easily review and compare policies blindly. The results may or may not surprise you.

https://voteforpolicies.org.uk/



Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Abrahammer on Thursday, June 8, 2017, 09:28:15
Oh i always do those things as I'm generally a floating voter with no set alligences.

Problem is it normally comes out with SNP or Welsh lot on top!


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: pauld on Thursday, June 8, 2017, 09:29:38
from polls it looks like an increased Tory majority. disappointing but not the landslide it had looked
Think it will be that - a hugely undeserved increased majority. It's been a very odd election, in that the campaign has barely touched on several key issues, notably the economy and Brexit, which will still be the main factor in how many people vote. Which is because neither of the main parties have a very good idea of how they're going to handle Brexit and so have steered clear of it. Disappointed that the media have largely let them get away with that as it means large sections of the electorate are going to be voting on that basis with little or no idea of what they're actually being asked to vote for (that's a criticism of the parties and the media, btw, not the voters). Most odd.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: horlock07 on Thursday, June 8, 2017, 09:30:05
Whoop its Theresa's Coronation Day!

The only way I can see any surprise occurring (and even that would be a lower tan expected Tory landslide) is if the <30 vote actually materialises...

How much does she need to increase her majority by for her not to be seen as a failure, considering the open door she was pushing on?


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: horlock07 on Thursday, June 8, 2017, 09:30:53
Oh i always do those things as I'm generally a floating voter with no set alligences.

Problem is it normally comes out with SNP or Welsh lot on top!

Just don't vote Tory and then you can at least claim the moral high ground when the shit invariably hits the fan in the next 5 years.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: milo t on Thursday, June 8, 2017, 09:35:05
Think it will be that - a hugely undeserved increased majority. It's been a very odd election, in that the campaign has barely touched on several key issues, notably the economy and Brexit, which will still be the main factor in how many people vote. Which is because neither of the main parties have a very good idea of how they're going to handle Brexit and so have steered clear of it. Disappointed that the media have largely let them get away with that as it means large sections of the electorate are going to be voting on that basis with little or no idea of what they're actually being asked to vote for (that's a criticism of the parties and the media, btw, not the voters). Most odd.

Quite the opposite, all three major parties have clarified their stance on Brexit, for example the Tories will quite happily take a "hard brexit" removal from the single market, no freedom of movement etc and in addition are quite happy to also walk away without any deal in place which would be even worse.. Labour on the other hand want a "softer brexit" who would like to retain the benefits of the single market and customs union with additional allowances in place for EU nationals... Lib Dems are pretty much aligned to that of labour with the addition that they would like to keep freedom of movement and most importantly to them a second referendum put to the public on the final deal at the end of the negotiations..


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Legends-Lounge on Thursday, June 8, 2017, 09:45:16
I didn't know you were Martin Lewis. 👋
Well there you go. Read the right stuff and you might learn some too.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Ardiles on Thursday, June 8, 2017, 09:57:44
my pointless x has been cast

And mine.  Didn't spoil my ballot paper in the end, but stood there in the booth for a good while considering it.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: pauld on Thursday, June 8, 2017, 10:06:23
Quite the opposite, all three major parties have clarified their stance on Brexit, for example the Tories will quite happily take a "hard brexit" removal from the single market, no freedom of movement etc and in addition are quite happy to also walk away without any deal in place which would be even worse.. Labour on the other hand want a "softer brexit" who would like to retain the benefits of the single market and customs union with additional allowances in place for EU nationals... Lib Dems are pretty much aligned to that of labour with the addition that they would like to keep freedom of movement and most importantly to them a second referendum put to the public on the final deal at the end of the negotiations..
We knew all that before the election. Brexit has barely featured in the campaign itself, but will feature heavily in how people vote


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: milo t on Thursday, June 8, 2017, 10:12:21
We knew all that before the election. Brexit has barely featured in the campaign itself, but will feature heavily in how people vote

It was also put towards all major party leaders in Question time which was televised on the BBC in the last week and can be found as key pledges in their manifesto, it would have featured more had May accepted more interviews. In the few she did Neill, Dimbleby, Snow et al she raised the point in each, not sure how much more you want? All the info is within each manifesto, unfortunately if you only read the bias in tabloids you wont find much information there...


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: pauld on Thursday, June 8, 2017, 10:24:26
It was also put towards all major party leaders in Question time which was televised on the BBC in the last week and can be found as key pledges in their manifesto, it would have featured more had May accepted more interviews. In the few she did Neill, Dimbleby, Snow et al she raised the point in each, not sure how much more you want? All the info is within each manifesto, unfortunately if you only read the bias in tabloids you wont find much information there...
Think you're missing my point. I know the information is out there, but QT aside, it didn't feature very heavily at all in media coverage (broadcast as well as print media) of the campaign. Which I think suited both main parties, tbh, as neither can offer any kind of real story about how they intend to handle it, other than broad brush banalities. Neither would stand up to any detailed examination and it's disappointing they weren't grilled more intensely by the media on that because whoever wins this election, Brexit is likely to be an absolute fucking car crash which will affect us for decades to come. It needn't have been, if it had been prepared for properly.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: milo t on Thursday, June 8, 2017, 10:37:42
Think you're missing my point. I know the information is out there, but QT aside, it didn't feature very heavily at all in media coverage (broadcast as well as print media) of the campaign. Which I think suited both main parties, tbh, as neither can offer any kind of real story about how they intend to handle it, other than broad brush banalities. Neither would stand up to any detailed examination and it's disappointing they weren't grilled more intensely by the media on that because whoever wins this election, Brexit is likely to be an absolute fucking car crash which will affect us for decades to come. It needn't have been, if it had been prepared for properly.

Well by its very nature it was promoted by Gove and Johnson who both used it as a play for control and lost, May herself as well as being a terrible orator was obviously known to be a silent remainer so the obvious compromise choice to lead afterwards. As such no one had a plan, and Cameron/Osbourne were so egotistical that they never assumed they would lose. May therefore has no clue, and every tabloid newspaper under Tory bias is not going to promote a point she is so poor on. On the other hand Corbyn is also a well known EU skeptical and as such never wanted to fight to remain until party pressure was piled on so i doubt he has much clue either. As every major newspaper is under either Tory/Labour bias it was never going to feature heavily in the press and the Lib Dems who are arguably the strongest on this issue have largely been ignored as per along with the greens


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: RedRag on Thursday, June 8, 2017, 10:41:30
Pointless vote cast.  

I seem to be part of a dangerous, extreme "middle of the road" cell.

No worries.  Never has my vote been close to electing an MP or councillor.

Depressing Friday morning beckons.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Simon Pieman on Thursday, June 8, 2017, 10:51:20
Oh i always do those things as I'm generally a floating voter with no set alligences.

Problem is it normally comes out with SNP or Welsh lot on top!

Because you compare all of the aspects of the party policies rather than just some questions and scaled range of answers it should clearer, unless you really are picking lots of different party policies in the various areas.

I got 25% green and 75% Lib Dem in the areas of most importance to me


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: pauld on Thursday, June 8, 2017, 10:56:44
Well by its very nature it was promoted by Gove and Johnson who both used it as a play for control and lost, May herself as well as being a terrible orator was obviously known to be a silent remainer so the obvious compromise choice to lead afterwards. As such no one had a plan, and Cameron/Osbourne were so egotistical that they never assumed they would lose. May therefore has no clue, and every tabloid newspaper under Tory bias is not going to promote a point she is so poor on. On the other hand Corbyn is also a well known EU skeptical and as such never wanted to fight to remain until party pressure was piled on so i doubt he has much clue either. As every major newspaper is under either Tory/Labour bias it was never going to feature heavily in the press and the Lib Dems who are arguably the strongest on this issue have largely been ignored as per along with the greens
Completely agree with all that, that's why I think it will be a car crash. And it doesn't need to be. Whatever the outcome of this election, I sincerely hope the odious fuckwit Johnson is buried without trace. I'd take that either metaphorically or literally tbh


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: StfcRusty on Thursday, June 8, 2017, 11:01:09
Because you compare all of the aspects of the party policies rather than just some questions and scaled range of answers it should clearer, unless you really are picking lots of different party policies in the various areas.

I got 25% green and 75% Lib Dem in the areas of most importance to me

I did the full survey (any excuse to procrastinate..) and got 44% Labour, 28% Green, 14% Liberal, 14% UKIP. 

Glad to see that even in a blind selection process, I instinctively reject all things Tory


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: milo t on Thursday, June 8, 2017, 11:04:37
Completely agree with all that, that's why I think it will be a car crash. And it doesn't need to be. Whatever the outcome of this election, I sincerely hope the odious fuckwit Johnson is buried without trace. I'd take that either metaphorically or literally tbh

Well did you see Johnson attack Corbyn the other day on anti-terror laws which he helped Corbyn to oppose and voted against himself? It needed pointed out to him as he had obviously 'forgot' haha. Hes a complete idiot and May and co knows it which is why he was appointed Foreign secretary to keep him out of the country as much as possible..


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: pauld on Thursday, June 8, 2017, 11:12:33
Well did you see Johnson attack Corbyn the other day on anti-terror laws which he helped Corbyn to oppose and voted against himself? It needed pointed out to him as he had obviously 'forgot' haha. Hes a complete idiot and May and co knows it which is why he was appointed Foreign secretary to keep him out of the country as much as possible..
Johnson has the same problem as Trump, he's lied so long and so often he no longer remembers which are lies and what the truth is. Sadly, think he was made Foreign Secretary more to keep the balls-up coalition that is the Tory Party together as he does have a strong faction within the Tory Party who will, post-election, be pushing his case after the inevitable coup ousts the appallingly incompetent May. The fact that Boris fucking Johnson is one of their strongest shining lights says all you need to know about the current state of the party who think they are the only party fit to lead the country into the most complex set of negotiations the country's ever been involved with. And no, I don't think the Labour front bench is a whole lot better.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Ardiles on Thursday, June 8, 2017, 11:12:40
His performance on the Today Prog the other morning (which is probably the interview you're referring to) was nothing short of repulsive.  He's a horrible human being.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Wobbly Bob on Thursday, June 8, 2017, 11:13:15
Nominated proxy voter is a life long Tory.  :(

Even though over 500 miles away I will know if they do a very bad thing.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: milo t on Thursday, June 8, 2017, 11:14:21
Johnson has the same problem as Trump, he's lied so long and so often he no longer remembers which are lies and what the truth is. Sadly, think he was made Foreign Secretary more to keep the balls-up coalition that is the Tory Party together as he does have a strong faction within the Tory Party who will, post-election, be pushing his case after the inevitable coup ousts the appallingly incompetent May. The fact that Boris fucking Johnson is one of their strongest shining lights says all you need to know about the current state of the party who think they are the only party fit to lead the country into the most complex set of negotiations the country's ever been involved with. And no, I don't think the Labour front bench is a whole lot better.

Completely agree, but then what does that say about us who will inevitably still vote such an incompetent party in...
Sad times


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Reg Smeeton on Thursday, June 8, 2017, 11:19:49
Johnson has the same problem as Trump, he's lied so long and so often he no longer remembers which are lies and what the truth is. Sadly, think he was made Foreign Secretary more to keep the balls-up coalition that is the Tory Party together as he does have a strong faction within the Tory Party who will, post-election, be pushing his case after the inevitable coup ousts the appallingly incompetent May. The fact that Boris fucking Johnson is one of their strongest shining lights says all you need to know about the current state of the party who think they are the only party fit to lead the country into the most complex set of negotiations the country's ever been involved with. And no, I don't think the Labour front bench is a whole lot better.

Which is why back at the beginning I said this wouldn't be a bad election to lose. The Tories got us into the Brexit mess, their reward should be carrying the can for the clusterfuck it will become.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: jayohaitchenn on Thursday, June 8, 2017, 11:21:35
I'd rather be bummed to death than fucking vote Tory


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: pauld on Thursday, June 8, 2017, 11:23:09
Which is why back at the beginning I said this wouldn't be a bad election to lose. The Tories got us into the Brexit mess, their reward should be carrying the can for the clusterfuck it will become.
Yep, agree with that Reg. Although by rights, Paul Dacre really should be put in the Tower as a traitor to the national interest.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: pauld on Thursday, June 8, 2017, 11:24:16
I'd rather be bummed to death than fucking vote Tory
Now there's the T-shirt slogan this election campaign has been missing


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Barry Scott on Thursday, June 8, 2017, 11:30:12
For the first time in my life I feel compelled to vote, unfortunately, I won't be able to.

I'm not a lefty, I'm not a righty. I despise politicians and think they're all self-serving liars.

Not since Nigel Benn have I seen a politician that appears to actually give a fuck about anyone but themselves, but Corbyn does actually also appear to.

I despise the media and every paper and every message it attempts to influence us with. Their anti-Corbyn messages I've had rammed down my throat from every angle (and I don't even read or watch the news) means I would LOVE to see Corbyn win, but sadly my vote is not possible.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: RedRag on Thursday, June 8, 2017, 11:33:01
Now there's the T-shirt slogan this election campaign has been missing
That's not a T shirt I'd in fact choose for a first day in prison.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: RedRag on Thursday, June 8, 2017, 11:36:58
Well did you see Johnson attack Corbyn the other day on anti-terror laws which he helped Corbyn to oppose and voted against himself? It needed pointed out to him as he had obviously 'forgot' haha. Hes a complete idiot and May and co knows it which is why he was appointed Foreign secretary to keep him out of the country as much as possible..
May's voting record on anti-terror laws is three in favour, three against with three "absences". 

Don't think I need add any comment.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: derbystfc on Thursday, June 8, 2017, 11:45:49
Good survey that, 57.1 lib dems, 14.3 Greens, 14.3 Labour, and 14.3 UKIP.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: ron dodgers on Thursday, June 8, 2017, 11:53:16

Not since Nigel Benn have I seen a politician that appears to actually give a fuck about anyone but themselves, but Corbyn does actually also appear to.



he had a good left and a good right - tee hee, see what you did there!
ps. Jo Cox was a good politician


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: horlock07 on Thursday, June 8, 2017, 11:53:26
For the first time in my life I feel compelled to vote, unfortunately, I won't be able to.

I'm not a lefty, I'm not a righty. I despise politicians and think they're all self-serving liars.

Not since Nigel Benn have I seen a politician that appears to actually give a fuck about anyone but themselves, but Corbyn does actually also appear to.


Unless the The Dark Destroyer has had a trip into politics, I assume you mean Tony Benn?  :girlgiggle:


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: RedRag on Thursday, June 8, 2017, 11:56:01
or Hilary?


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: 4D on Thursday, June 8, 2017, 11:57:36
He could have meant Nigel Farage  :sherlock:


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: pauld on Thursday, June 8, 2017, 12:07:16
He could have meant Nigel Farage  :sherlock:
No, he said "a politician that actually seemed to give a fuck about anyone but themselves"


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: horlock07 on Thursday, June 8, 2017, 12:16:56
or Hilary?

Or Mr Benn?


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: pauld on Thursday, June 8, 2017, 12:19:48
I'd rather be bummed to death than fucking vote Tory
Here you go, jayo:

https://www.spreadshirt.co.uk/create-your-own?product=156328222&view=1



Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: horlock07 on Thursday, June 8, 2017, 12:44:54
Here you go, jayo:

https://www.spreadshirt.co.uk/create-your-own?product=156328222&view=1



Looks like 17.99 well spent?


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: horlock07 on Thursday, June 8, 2017, 13:39:58
This is interesting (really) as it seems to show how people tend to ignore many matters...

http://www.independent.co.uk/News/uk/politics/election-poll-latest-tory-win-results-corbyn-theresa-may-a7777781.html

The three key issues with Corbyn seem to be funding his plans (when the Tories didn't really bother with plans and definitely didn't show how anything would be funded). Security (despite the present mess happening on Mays watch as HS and then PM) and Brexit (where the Tories have still not published any plans despite this being a n election all about Brexit apparently).

Polls are notoriously bollocks, but this just seems to show that the electorate have lapped up the bullshit being peddled by the media as fact.

We shall see, I am just going to enjoy my final day of having some human rights in the country.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Barry Scott on Thursday, June 8, 2017, 14:29:36
Unless the The Dark Destroyer has had a trip into politics, I assume you mean Tony Benn?  :girlgiggle:

:D Nigel would've been cooler. I want a stupid celeb I can get behind. Preferably one who's a massive bellend with tiny hands and is preciously over-sensitivite.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: sonicyouth on Thursday, June 8, 2017, 14:34:52
My local Green candidate is a deaf, blind, vegan, Buddhist Yorkshireman. What a guy.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: pauld on Thursday, June 8, 2017, 14:43:34
My local Green candidate is a deaf, blind, vegan, Buddhist Yorkshireman. What a guy.
I bet he's fucking great at pinball


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Batch on Thursday, June 8, 2017, 14:48:14
[arse]
That moment when you make an ace pinball joke and then the page refreshes and Davis has already made it...

meh, can't have been that awesome
[/arse]


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: horlock07 on Thursday, June 8, 2017, 15:02:01
We have got a Mr Fishfinger standing in our constituency, I really hope he rolls up in costume for the declaration, will probably still get more votes that the Labour candidate (which is good as he needs to finish his A Levels)


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: pauld on Thursday, June 8, 2017, 15:13:43
[arse]
That moment when you make an ace pinball joke and then the page refreshes and Davis has already made it...

meh, can't have been that awesome
[/arse]
Great minds think alike/fools seldom differ :)


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: horlock07 on Thursday, June 8, 2017, 17:00:48
Well, Tom Smith has come out as a Tory on Twitter... is a shame, I was hoping he'd get a new contract!

Not all footballers are like that...

QUOTE OF THE DAY
“I’m a privileged footballer. I could vote for benefit of my tax rate. But won’t. This is about everyone in our society” – Brighton’s Liam Rosenior, telling it like it is.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Samdy Gray on Thursday, June 8, 2017, 19:18:25
I'd rather be bummed to death than fucking vote Tory

(http://images.dailystar.co.uk/dynamic/1/photos/66000/620x/theresa-415888.jpg)


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Costanza on Thursday, June 8, 2017, 19:39:43
I expect a comfortable Tory victory. They didn't get my vote.

That's my contribution.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Peter Venkman on Thursday, June 8, 2017, 19:58:28
I expect a comfortable Tory victory. They didn't get my vote.

That's my contribution.
My thoughts too, exactly the same.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Batch on Thursday, June 8, 2017, 20:26:22
indeed,

never have so many done so much, for so few. bloody public.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: kirky69 on Thursday, June 8, 2017, 20:46:58
This is interesting (really) as it seems to show how people tend to ignore many matters...

http://www.independent.co.uk/News/uk/politics/election-poll-latest-tory-win-results-corbyn-theresa-may-a7777781.html

The three key issues with Corbyn seem to be funding his plans (when the Tories didn't really bother with plans and definitely didn't show how anything would be funded). Security (despite the present mess happening on Mays watch as HS and then PM) and Brexit (where the Tories have still not published any plans despite this being a n election all about Brexit apparently).

Polls are notoriously bollocks, but this just seems to show that the electorate have lapped up the bullshit being peddled by the media as fact.

We shall see, I am just going to enjoy my final day of having some human rights in the country.

Are we talking human rights of potential terrorists or those individuals and their familes who have been killed or injured by terrorists?


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Legends-Lounge on Thursday, June 8, 2017, 21:24:23

In other words the electorate have decided the conservatives bullshit is more believable than labours bullshit.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: penhillbilly on Thursday, June 8, 2017, 21:36:40
In other words the electorate have decided the conservatives bullshit is more believable than labours bullshit.
nail.head.hit. if you have to eat a shit sandwich,make sure it's the crusty bit.... :yay:


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Nemo on Thursday, June 8, 2017, 22:04:38
Holy shit, exit poll has Tories on 314 which is lower than now and short of a majority by 12.

Coalition of Chaos is on...

Hope is a cruel mistress.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Batch on Thursday, June 8, 2017, 22:16:34
so did the 2015 exit poll.

It's the hope that kills you.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Nemo on Thursday, June 8, 2017, 22:17:55
2015 exit poll was spot on Lib Dem collapse, Tory majority no? It was the polls before the exit one that were very, very wrong.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: ibelieveinmrreeves on Thursday, June 8, 2017, 22:19:13
Exit polls tend to be spot on, or very close if not.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Abrahammer on Thursday, June 8, 2017, 22:36:12
Exit polls are never that far out.

It's going to be a right mess if th result is close to that, no obvious coalition there to get to the 326 mark


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Costanza on Thursday, June 8, 2017, 22:38:12
It would appear that LAB have recorded the first win of the night, the Townend Forum. A hard fought campaign by all.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Bogus Dave on Thursday, June 8, 2017, 22:56:03
Rest assured if the exit polls are correct we will be doing this all again in 12-18 months time

Ironically this would be an absolute shitstorm for Brexit negotiators. What odds can I get on the uk being in the eu by 2031??


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Batch on Thursday, June 8, 2017, 22:59:10
I thought this was 2015

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2015-scotland-32633029


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Batch on Thursday, June 8, 2017, 23:01:03
it's mildly interesting

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/06/08/general-election-exit-poll-accurate-could/


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Barry Scott on Thursday, June 8, 2017, 23:14:11
This could be fun. I'm most looking forward to the intelligent calm debate amongst people for being, selfish/retarded/racist/idiotic/greedy, in a similar way to Brexit being such a thought provoking adult discussion between the two sides..


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: pauld on Thursday, June 8, 2017, 23:17:05
It's going to be a Tory-Sinn Fein coalition #DreamTeam


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Flashheart on Thursday, June 8, 2017, 23:19:20
I'm actually enjoying this. I want labour to win. I'll rephrase that, I don't want the Tories to win. I find them insidious.

Politics are more interesting when you have a dog in the fight.

COME ON YOU REDS.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Nemo on Thursday, June 8, 2017, 23:33:42
https://twitter.com/BrettMendoza/status/872939588284821504

Lovely stuff.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Batch on Thursday, June 8, 2017, 23:57:32
Tomlinson in. 8000 majority :(


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Nemo on Thursday, June 8, 2017, 23:57:52
Tomlinson re-elected quite comfortably. Shaky exit poll?


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Batch on Thursday, June 8, 2017, 23:59:45
11% up for labour
3% up cons
-12 ukip
-2 green

it's actually a good labour result


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Flashheart on Friday, June 9, 2017, 00:03:53
11% up for labour
3% up cons
-12 ukip
-2 green

it's actually a good labour result

That's what I thought.

I'm ignorant to politics. Why do they consider the Swindon North vote so significant?


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Nemo on Friday, June 9, 2017, 00:07:51
Both Swindon seats almost always vote for the winner.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: pauld on Friday, June 9, 2017, 00:09:42
That's what I thought.

I'm ignorant to politics. Why do they consider the Swindon North vote so significant?
Because it's one of the first Southern seats to declare. Despite all the fuss made about Sunderland declaring first, you can tell fuck all from NE Labour seats where they just weigh the votes. But the Minister for Victimising the Disabled's majority has gone down, doesn't bode well for May's landslide. Or possibly even Robert "Empty Suit" Buckland's chances of holding Swindon South


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Flashheart on Friday, June 9, 2017, 00:13:24
Cheers.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Nemo on Friday, June 9, 2017, 01:07:48
Buckland holds with a majority of 2000


Title: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Batch on Friday, June 9, 2017, 01:11:24
:(

that's down from 5700 last time but not enough.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Batch on Friday, June 9, 2017, 01:13:59
oooh labour win seat in Scotland.. 8.9% swing from SNP


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: ghanimah on Friday, June 9, 2017, 05:03:15
If the forecast is right that the Tories will fall short then this is good news. May will have to go and she can take her Brexit "no deal" bullshit with her. A more sensible Brexit with single market membership will be back on the table particularly if the Tories have to reply on the DUP to form a government.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Samdy Gray on Friday, June 9, 2017, 05:26:21
Well, well, well. This is all going to get very interesting messy. Just what the country needed. Cheers Theresa.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Pax Romana on Friday, June 9, 2017, 05:31:26
Teresa May: No it wasn't a gamble that backfired; it was a perfectly sensible, albeit cynical, piece of opportunism.  The problem was that it was made by the most incompetent campaigner in Tory leadership history.  Who could honestly name a Tory PM since the war who couldn't have got a majority against Corbyn?

Jeremy Corbyn; I was totally wrong (not alone in that), he ran a really effective campaign.  He is still totally unfit to run the country.  Who could honestly name a Labour leader since the war who couldn't have got a majority against May?  Everyone who is eulogising about Corbyn seems to forget that he still lost the election, just not by the landslide most of us predicted.

Social media:  The impact of tactical voting and university student voting has been massive.  A stream of two horse races.  When was the last time that both Labour and Tories exceeded 40%? (Appreciate I may be premature on this but point remains).

Nick Clegg: Anyone who whinges about how cynical and self serving our politicians are should ask themselves whether we really encourage anything better.  History will surely recognise that at the very least he did what he genuinely believed was right for his country and got annihilated for it.

Stayed up all night, really enjoyed it.  Increased turnouts, clearly major participation from my kid's generation (a year earlier for Brexit would have been nice), genuine enthusiasm, fucking chaos to come. 


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: herthab on Friday, June 9, 2017, 05:50:48
Jeremy Corbyn; I was totally wrong (not alone in that), he ran a really effective campaign.  He is still totally unfit to run the country.  Who could honestly name a Labour leader since the war who couldn't have got a majority against May? Michael Foot? Neil Kinnock? Margaret Beckett? Gordon Brown? Ed Milliband?   Everyone who is eulogising about Corbyn seems to forget that he still lost the election, just not by the landslide most of us predicted.



Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Reg Smeeton on Friday, June 9, 2017, 07:55:48
 It feels a decent day today.  Like picking up a point, with a last minute equaliser at some norvern hellhole on a wet Tuesday night.... not quite winning a PO final at a sunlit Old Wembley.

Very happy for JC, a man who's taken as much abuse from inside his own party, as outside, yet maintained his dignity and let the ideas speak.  :pint:


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Arriba on Friday, June 9, 2017, 08:33:34
Good luck repealing the hunting act now May 🖕
Talking to the same few people out the back of denelm mill every day, avoiding the public and debate of any sort has backfired big time.
Just think what could have happened without the press vendetta against Corbyn.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Abrahammer on Friday, June 9, 2017, 08:39:16
The only winners are potentially the DUP, well done FPTP


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: pauld on Friday, June 9, 2017, 08:41:52
It feels a decent day today.  Like picking up a point, with a last minute equaliser at some norvern hellhole on a wet Tuesday night.... not quite winning a PO final at a sunlit Old Wembley.

Very happy for JC, a man who's taken as much abuse from inside his own party, as outside, yet maintained his dignity and let the ideas speak.  :pint:
Spot on Reg. And also agree with your earlier comment about this being a good election not to win. This could be the best possible outcome - let the Tories carry the can for the shitfest Brexit they've created, and render themselves unelectable for the next decade in doing so, but without a thumping majority that would allow them to ram through (further) dismantling the NHS etc etc. Still don't think Corbyn is the right man to be PM, but you're right he's won the Labour Party, if not the election, by letting the ideas speak. Time now to continue that, let those ideas speak further, because they clearly have appeal, and take the time before the next election to build a proper front bench.

Tories should now be legally required to have the hashtags #recklessGamblers and #CasinoPolitics on every one of their posters and adverts - that's twice in as many years they've gambled the future of the country to serve their own selfish political ends and twice they've fucked it up.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: 4D on Friday, June 9, 2017, 08:43:12
It's a poor result for the country


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Arriba on Friday, June 9, 2017, 08:48:13
The only winners are potentially the DUP, well done FPTP

The foxes, hares, deer and mink have done alright out of it too.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: pauld on Friday, June 9, 2017, 08:48:27
It's a poor result for the country
It could have been much much worse


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Don Rogers Sock on Friday, June 9, 2017, 08:52:16
It's a poor result for the country
Why?


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: 4D on Friday, June 9, 2017, 09:00:33
See Samdy's post a few back.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: horlock07 on Friday, June 9, 2017, 09:00:54
The only winners are potentially the DUP, well done FPTP

The DUP seem to hold all the cards....... unless.....

On seeing the DUP may begin to have serious sway in parliament Sin Fein decide to take their seats finally, then its open house again?


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: horlock07 on Friday, June 9, 2017, 09:03:16
The foxes, hares, deer and mink have done alright out of it too.

A lot of other creatures will be mightily pissed of about the minks success, bloody alien invasive vermin!

I am no expert (as my prediction of a big Tory majority proves) but from my untrained eye, at least would it not have made sense to have the election prior to activating A50 and not have the clock ticking whilst this self imposed shit storm was on-going!


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Simon Pieman on Friday, June 9, 2017, 09:14:09
A poor campaign from May and a strong one from Corbyn has (re)engaged people with politics, particularly young people if reports are to be believed. When was the last time there was hope amongst the electorate that they could have a significant influence?

Where from here? Brexit negotiations are likely to stall, will a Tory-DUP coalition emerge and what does that mean for the country and the wider Brexit issue?

Strong and stable eh?


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Batch on Friday, June 9, 2017, 09:18:36
It's a poor result for the country

That depends on your point of view.

Its a total shambles, and runs the risk of a Tory leadership contest and yet anther GE and even the small chance of a delayed Brexit.

On the other hand it stops the Tory carte blanche "brexit means brexit, no deal is better than any deal" bullshit they were pursuing and may lead to a more reasoned Brexit.

That's another fine mess the Tories have got us into.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Red Frog on Friday, June 9, 2017, 09:20:59
Nick Clegg: Anyone who whinges about how cynical and self serving our politicians are should ask themselves whether we really encourage anything better.  History will surely recognise that at the very least he did what he genuinely believed was right for his country and got annihilated for it.

Heartily agree with this. Very sad to see Remain's best advocate removed from the debate in parliament. History has not been kind to a decent man.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Batch on Friday, June 9, 2017, 09:24:20
I am no expert (as my prediction of a big Tory majority proves) but from my untrained eye, at least would it not have made sense to have the election prior to activating A50 and not have the clock ticking whilst this self imposed shit storm was on-going!

The arrogance of May, thought Labour were such a shambles and the Tories so strong that they could increase the majority and put to bed "unelected, no mandate" arguments.

And to be fair, most of us agreed they would.

I may be wrong, but the presumptions of thinking they knew why 52% of people voted Brexit and what they wanted out of it , ignoring 48% who voted remain, attacking the old with the dementia tax/heating payments, etc etc - may not have gone down well!

And Corbyn offered the opposite. And pulled in the youth vote....

Labour lost convincingly, but what a turnaround from what was 'supposed' to happen.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Batch on Friday, June 9, 2017, 09:26:18
Heartily agree with this. Very sad to see Remain's best advocate removed from the debate in parliament. History has not been kind to a decent man.

On the flip side, say one thing and do another is shooting himself in the foot when its a major policy you are abandoning. Good man maybe, but not much sympathy.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: horlock07 on Friday, June 9, 2017, 09:27:24

Where from here? Brexit negotiations are likely to stall, will a Tory-DUP coalition emerge and what does that mean for the country and the wider Brexit issue?

Strong and stable eh?

The DUP are pro-Brexit as shown by the dubious 'donation' for the newspaper wrap being channeled through the DUP to avoid election rules, however it would appear from what is being reported that they are seeking reassurances re 'soft' brexit as part of any coalition deal?


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Pax Romana on Friday, June 9, 2017, 09:31:48
The DUP seem to hold all the cards....... unless.....

On seeing the DUP may begin to have serious sway in parliament Sin Fein decide to take their seats finally, then its open house again?

I'd never considered the scenario before so I may be wrong, but I thought I heard last night that they had very specifically ruled that out during the campaign.

Also a Corbyn minority govt propped up by SF would surely be disastrous electorally, even in these extraordinary times.
 


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: 4D on Friday, June 9, 2017, 09:35:51
That depends on your point of view.

Its a total shambles, and runs the risk of a Tory leadership contest and yet anther GE and even the small chance of a delayed Brexit.

On the other hand it stops the Tory carte blanche "brexit means brexit, no deal is better than any deal" bullshit they were pursuing and may lead to a more reasoned Brexit.

That's another fine mess the Tories have got us into.

That is my point of view  :)



Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Red Frog on Friday, June 9, 2017, 09:41:46
On the flip side, say one thing and do another is shooting himself in the foot when its a major policy you are abandoning. Good man maybe, but not much sympathy.

I agree, but that's what I meant about history not being kind. People retain one item per person (viz Tony Blair = Iraq, forgetting all he did to revalue health and education, since thoroughly diminished once again).

Anyway, it's a detail in today's shambles.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: herthab on Friday, June 9, 2017, 09:46:25
It's a poor result for the country

Any result that leaves us with a Tory government is a poor result for the country, but it could have been a lot worse..


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: horlock07 on Friday, June 9, 2017, 09:49:42
I'd never considered the scenario before so I may be wrong, but I thought I heard last night that they had very specifically ruled that out during the campaign.

Also a Corbyn minority govt propped up by SF would surely be disastrous electorally, even in these extraordinary times.
 

Who knows, I saw that comment also, however, I suspect it was made before it became clear that their political opponents had the power to become kingmakers, in terms of constituencies with the scope to be royally fucked by Brexit SF hold them all along the border so its a new world now?

As for them propping up Corbyn, who knows they may just choose to sit to skupper the possible power of the DUP, it would rather hypocritical if we were happy for them to have a say in ruling NI but make a fuss here, whilst being happy to jump into bed with the DUP?

Going to be interesting to see what happens, in terms of the Laws of Unexpected Consequences I suspect many Tories are a little sad they fucked the Lib Dems over so hard in 2015.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Peter Venkman on Friday, June 9, 2017, 09:53:17
Any result that leaves us with a Tory government is a poor result for the country, but it could have been a lot worse..
:nod:


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: pauld on Friday, June 9, 2017, 10:07:25
Also a Corbyn minority govt propped up by SF would surely be disastrous electorally, even in these extraordinary times.
A minority government propped up by a party founded in Irish terrorism would be completely unacceptable. Unless it's the Tories being propped up by the DUP, of course


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: herthab on Friday, June 9, 2017, 10:08:00
A minority government propped up by a party founded in Irish terrorism would be completely unacceptable. Unless it's the Tories being propped up by the DUP, of course

Quite.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: ghanimah on Friday, June 9, 2017, 10:10:32
That depends on your point of view.

Its a total shambles, and runs the risk of a Tory leadership contest and yet anther GE and even the small chance of a delayed Brexit.

On the other hand it stops the Tory carte blanche "brexit means brexit, no deal is better than any deal" bullshit they were pursuing and may lead to a more reasoned Brexit.

That's another fine mess the Tories have got us into.

Spot on. if we wanted see chaos then the "no deal" strategy that May was pursing would be a very good way of seeing it.

Short term political instability is a small price to pay to prevent the utter calamity she was going to inflict upon the country


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Wobbly Bob on Friday, June 9, 2017, 10:12:51

Labour lost convincingly, but what a turnaround from what was 'supposed' to happen.

Strangely, it feels like a victory.

A spirit of revolution in Canterbury after a 100 years as well.

The prospect of a BJ for the country moves that ever bit closer.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: herthab on Friday, June 9, 2017, 10:16:40
Good analysis here..

http://tuckered.co.uk/2017/06/09/so-whos-in-charge-fuck-knows/


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: StfcRusty on Friday, June 9, 2017, 10:18:34
I'd never considered the scenario before so I may be wrong, but I thought I heard last night that they had very specifically ruled that out during the campaign.

Also a Corbyn minority govt propped up by SF would surely be disastrous electorally, even in these extraordinary times.
 

SF would have to swear an allegiance to the Queen to take up their seats. Can't see that happening.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: StfcRusty on Friday, June 9, 2017, 10:22:11
It's a poor result for the country

That's always the view in this situation. But actually maybe having less power could be good for the country. Perhaps it would bring more consensus politics? We certainly need it. Too much polarisation just now


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Pax Romana on Friday, June 9, 2017, 10:34:33
A minority government propped up by a party founded in Irish terrorism would be completely unacceptable. Unless it's the Tories being propped up by the DUP, of course

Agreed, one could argue that the DUP don't have quite the toxicity in mainland Britain that SF do but it's all shades of black.  I can't see a DUP backed Tory minority govt lasting for long.   


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Nemo on Friday, June 9, 2017, 10:39:02
That sounds a whole lot like a coalition of chaos to me.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: pauld on Friday, June 9, 2017, 10:46:10
A minority government propped up by a party founded in Irish terrorism would be completely unacceptable. Unless it's the Tories being propped up by the DUP, of course
And in case anyone was wondering - because, strangely, the DUP's roots in Loyalist terrorism haven't been covered quite so widely in the UK press as Corbyn meeting Sinn Fein leaders - here's the photos of DUP founders Peter Robinson and Ian Paisley in the uniform of terrorist gang Ulster Resistance:
(https://ichef-1.bbci.co.uk/news/624/media/images/83215000/jpg/_83215824_peter_robinson_beret.jpg)
(http://www.newsletter.co.uk/webimage/1.7427861.1465812176!/image/image.jpg)
and Peter Robinson again:
(https://ansionnachfionn.files.wordpress.com/2012/09/peter-robinson-caught-on-camera-in-late-1984-during-a-visit-to-the-israel-lebanon-border-with-an-automatic-assault-rifle.png)


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Flashheart on Friday, June 9, 2017, 10:52:10
The red tops must be fuming. This makes me smile. A lot.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: pauld on Friday, June 9, 2017, 10:58:04
Nuttall's quit to concentrate on taking Bottom on tour


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Bathtime on Friday, June 9, 2017, 10:59:37
What a mess - so easy to promise the earth when you are in opposition - May has snatched defeat from the jaws of victory with an unbelievably naïve campaign - so easy to pick her off - Corbyn just had to wake up every day with another populist promise - he will be laughing now especially as he will remain a hero because he doesn`t actually have to keep to his promises.

As regards whether or not the country will suffer now - I think we all know the answer to that....


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: pauld on Friday, June 9, 2017, 11:00:18
Hopefully Paul Dacre will follow Nuttall, having failed to get the electorate to do what they're told


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Pax Romana on Friday, June 9, 2017, 11:09:25
Yes one of the few good things amidst this mess is that people now seem to be voting based on what they believe rather than what they are being told to believe. It gives us the occasional Trump or Brexit but that's democracy.

 


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Reg Smeeton on Friday, June 9, 2017, 11:18:57
 I don't subscribe to this being seen as a mess... it's democracy at its finest. 

You can fool some people some of the time, and some people all of the time but you can't fool all of the people all of the time.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: horlock07 on Friday, June 9, 2017, 11:45:15

The prospect of a BJ for the country moves that ever bit closer.

I don't recall voting for that, but who am I to say no?


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Reg Smeeton on Friday, June 9, 2017, 11:52:10
I don't recall voting for that, but who am I to say no?

Couple of years back, while my Bulgarian ladyfriend was living in Stoke...she informed me of a local custom by the women of the Potteries on the 14th of March.  BJ and steak night for their men folk. As one who liked to integrate she asked me if I was going to visit  :)


Title: Re: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Only Me on Friday, June 9, 2017, 11:52:13
Yes one of the few good things amidst this mess is that people now seem to be voting based on what they believe rather than what they are being told to believe. It gives us the occasional Trump or Brexit but that's democracy.
You seem to be making an assumption with Trump / Brexit which not everyone will agree with you.

Sent from my SM-G935F


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Batch on Friday, June 9, 2017, 12:00:51
Hopefully Paul Dacre will follow Nuttall, having failed to get the electorate to do what they're told

Oh god, you don't think Ferage will crawl back into front line politics do you...


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: herthab on Friday, June 9, 2017, 12:05:08
Oh god, you don't think Ferage will crawl back into front line politics do you...

Never in doubt.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Reg Smeeton on Friday, June 9, 2017, 12:10:43
 I believe Ian Paisley is big in the DUP..... no not that one, his son.  Could be made Deputy PM or some such sinecure, he likes expenses.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: horlock07 on Friday, June 9, 2017, 12:13:17
I believe Ian Paisley is big in the DUP..... no not that one, his son.  Could be made Deputy PM or some such sinecure, he likes expenses.

They sound lovely...
https://www.opendemocracy.net/uk/adam-ramsay/so-who-are-dup


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Chubbs on Friday, June 9, 2017, 12:23:33
They sound lovely...
https://www.opendemocracy.net/uk/adam-ramsay/so-who-are-dup
How ironic, who's the terrorist sympathiser now?


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: pauld on Friday, June 9, 2017, 12:28:26
Oh god, you don't think Ferage will crawl back into front line politics do you...
Yes, on the radio this morning saying how he might be reluctantly dragged back in to "defend Brexit". He and Arron Banks (UKIP's major backer), along with the Brieitbart crew that got Trump in (and no Russian intelligence officers at all, honest), have been planning a hard-right populist UKIP 2.0 for months - think EDL in suits. It's planned launch was interrupted by the snap election, ironically


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Wobbly Bob on Friday, June 9, 2017, 13:00:52

Just listened to the statement outside no 10.

The woman has no shame.
Even a tiny bit of humility might have been appreciated.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: chalkies_shorts on Friday, June 9, 2017, 13:34:01
I'm sure this will go down well with the republic. Still its probably ok because they only target Catholics.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: RedRag on Friday, June 9, 2017, 13:55:08
The prospect of a BJ for the country moves that ever bit closer.
Another uncosted Corbyn promise that I missed


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: horlock07 on Friday, June 9, 2017, 13:56:53
Just listened to the statement outside no 10.

The woman has no shame.
Even a tiny bit of humility might have been appreciated.

She really is a horror isn't she... if you just read transcripts of what she has been saying you would think it had all gone swimmingly!


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Ardiles on Friday, June 9, 2017, 14:26:42
She really is a horror isn't she... if you just read transcripts of what she has been saying you would think it had all gone swimmingly!

It's a continuation of the ‘evade all questions, share nothing, deliver a few meaningless platitudes and brazen it out’ strategy that has served her so well during the last 12 months.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Ardiles on Friday, June 9, 2017, 14:28:10
At least we might all get an extra public holiday on July 12th this year, though.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Ells on Friday, June 9, 2017, 14:29:16
Did the Adver really just send me a pop up that said "it's tight down south"?


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Batch on Friday, June 9, 2017, 14:35:51
At least we might all get an extra public holiday on July 12th this year, though.

My went to bed at 3:30 brain does not compute.....


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Batch on Friday, June 9, 2017, 14:37:11
My went to bed at 3:30 brain does not compute.....

nevermind

"..and there were no more Catholics left"


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Reg Smeeton on Friday, June 9, 2017, 15:08:51
It's a continuation of the ‘evade all questions, share nothing, deliver a few meaningless platitudes and brazen it out’ strategy that has served her so well during the last 12 months.

TBF, it's all she can do. May is probably irretrievably holed below the water line, but for now needs to carry on. 

I'm not sure the Tories having lost one leader less than a year ago are going to be too keen on shelling another especially, as the field was so grim last time a second ballot wasn't considered worthwhile.  No, anyone with ambition will plot. George Osborne must be regretting his decision to stand down from The House.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: horlock07 on Friday, June 9, 2017, 15:28:06
TBF, it's all she can do. May is probably irretrievably holed below the water line, but for now needs to carry on. 

Is being irretrievably holed below the waterline better than it being tight down south?

I'm not sure the Tories having lost one leader less than a year ago are going to be too keen on shelling another especially, as the field was so grim last time a second ballot wasn't considered worthwhile.  No, anyone with ambition will plot. George Osborne must be regretting his decision to stand down from The House.

On last nights performance they could do a lot worse than trying to get Ruth Davidson a seat in Westminster sharpish, what with that and Osborne, it will be interesting to see who starts emerging out the woodwork come the first safe By-election, (are we allowed to call them bi-elections with the DUP now holding all the power?).


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: horlock07 on Friday, June 9, 2017, 15:54:36
Hang on a minute, so May ran off to the palace like a rat up a drainpipe to say she was able to form a government with the DUP, yet now we have the DUP stating that they are prepared to start talking to the Conservatives on a deal?

Sounds like someone panicked and ran off to the palace as quickly as they could (perhaps worried someone might beat them to it) and has been bullshitting old Queenie.... How dare she hoodwink her Maj.  :hmmm:

Mrs May is really playing with fire here, just to save her skin!

The whole peace agreement in NI was based upon the British Government being neutral with regards to the two political sides, however she is now getting into bed and making herself entirely dependent upon one side which rather defeats the neutrality argument, I assume having seen off the potential for another Scottish referendum she wants to challenge the union in other ways.

Or she is a selfish chancer who does give one jot about the country or in fact anyone bar herself!


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Saxondale on Friday, June 9, 2017, 17:38:51
Fuck me, seriously tories how low can you bunch of wankpuffins go.  How little do you care for the people of this country.  Playing politics with the country in such a grubby, seedy, power hungry way over the last 7 years.  How much do you need power?  How much do you need money?  How little do you believe in doing anything for the interest of the people.

Disgraceful and discredited. 


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Samdy Gray on Friday, June 9, 2017, 18:34:35
Welcome to the world of party politics and self-serving politicians.

Highly recommend this book: https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B06XBY3XJV/


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: ghanimah on Friday, June 9, 2017, 18:39:20
Just listened to the statement outside no 10.

The woman has no shame.
Even a tiny bit of humility might have been appreciated.


TBF she's probably had very little sleep, but yes as has been evident for quite some months she is confirming the Peter principle in spades


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: horlock07 on Friday, June 9, 2017, 18:43:39
They are genuinely barking!

https://twitter.com/BBCPolitics/status/873220352335392768


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: ghanimah on Friday, June 9, 2017, 19:01:21
They are genuinely barking!

https://twitter.com/BBCPolitics/status/873220352335392768

It's amazing how "emotional" candidates get when they lose. One Tory Councillor refused to shake my hand in an election and shouted at me that I cost him "his seat". I had to politely point out (under duress) it wasn't his seat but the electorate's.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: adje on Saturday, June 10, 2017, 19:20:17
ER has one important job and she fucks it up


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: adje on Saturday, June 10, 2017, 19:21:44
She really is a horror isn't she... if you just read transcripts of what she has been saying you would think it had all gone swimmingly!
I think she got the wrong speech.That was the one for the expected "landslide"


Title: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Batch on Saturday, June 10, 2017, 19:41:22
confidence and supply deal done with the  dodgy Irish DUP fuckwits

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2017-40236152 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2017-40236152)


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Flashheart on Saturday, June 10, 2017, 19:44:15
How would that work, anyway?

Does it mean they are expected to support the tories and, in return, the tories lend them support? In which case, does this mean we could potentially see creationism in classrooms being debated in government?


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Charlie Henry on Saturday, June 10, 2017, 19:49:51
-The DUP can't vote on English laws (due to the EVEL law passed in 2015) this meant the tories only have a majority when it comes to Brexit and the DUP promised a soft Brexit in their manifesto (due to the border with Ireland). This means the tories can't vote through their manifesto without the consent of other parties MPs (and it looks like a lot of their own MPs will vote against anyway).
-if it becomes evident they can't pass bills then there will be a vote of no confidence and there will be another election (hence boris getting ready to oppose her)
-technically there can't be a coalition with the DUP due to the peace agreement and our promise of neutrality, so there is a "supply of consent"- so the tories are a minority government.


Title: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Batch on Saturday, June 10, 2017, 20:00:27
Quote
How would that work, anyway?

Does it mean they are expected to support the tories and, in return, the tories lend them support? In which case, does this mean we could potentially see creationism in classrooms being debated in government?
seems to be just that, an exchange of supporting Tories in voting for ' something' in return (limited in voting support as above if that's right).

What that something is, we'll have to see I suppose. Can't be as retarded as creationism though :)


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: The Grim Reaper on Saturday, June 10, 2017, 20:21:03
If the Tories and the DUP fail to reach an agreement, do the Tories still get a chance to form a minority government or could Corbyn himself go see the queen and put his hat in the ring so to speak?


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: pauld on Saturday, June 10, 2017, 20:37:52
If the Tories and the DUP fail to reach an agreement, do the Tories still get a chance to form a minority government or could Corbyn himself go see the queen and put his hat in the ring so to speak?
1) Downing St now saying they have reached an agreement on a "confidence and supply" basis
2) That IS a minority government, with or without an agreement with the DUP


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Ardiles on Saturday, June 10, 2017, 20:50:13
This is extraordinary.  Why is no one in her party tapping TM on the shoulder and letting her know that every day she associates the Conservatives with the DUP, it's another day the Tory brand is contaminated?  It's bizarre.  How on earth does she think that this is going to end?


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Ardiles on Saturday, June 10, 2017, 20:55:21
-The DUP can't vote on English laws (due to the EVEL law passed in 2015) this meant the tories only have a majority when it comes to Brexit and the DUP promised a soft Brexit in their manifesto (due to the border with Ireland). This means the tories can't vote through their manifesto without the consent of other parties MPs (and it looks like a lot of their own MPs will vote against anyway).
-if it becomes evident they can't pass bills then there will be a vote of no confidence and there will be another election (hence boris getting ready to oppose her)
-technically there can't be a coalition with the DUP due to the peace agreement and our promise of neutrality, so there is a "supply of consent"- so the tories are a minority government.

But do the Tories not have an overall majority in England?  Of the 650 parliamentary seats, 533 are English.  I can't find how many of those were won by the Tories online - but fairly sure it's 267 or over (which is what they would need to pass English-only legislation).


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Flashheart on Saturday, June 10, 2017, 21:06:31
This is extraordinary.  Why is no one in her party tapping TM on the shoulder and letting her know that every day she associates the Conservatives with the DUP, it's another day the Tory brand is contaminated?  It's bizarre.  How on earth does she think that this is going to end?

I read somewhere that 13 (I think, I forget the actual number) tory MPs are gay. Fuck knows what they must be thinking (If true).


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: pauld on Saturday, June 10, 2017, 21:12:47
I read somewhere that 13 (I think, I forget the actual number) tory MPs are gay. Fuck knows what they must be thinking (If true).
Statistically, it's likely to be a hell of a lot more than 13. Although it may well be that few that are openly gay. Even then. I'd be surprise if it wasn't more.

Ruth Davidson, the leader of the Scottish Tories, is about to marry her long-term partner, a marriage that would be illegal if the DUP had their way. She's sought specific assurances about the DUP from May and is currently having to fight off rumours she's planning to take the Scottish Conservatives out into a separate organisation. (I'd lay a penny to a pound those rumours are bollocks, FWIW)


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Flashheart on Saturday, June 10, 2017, 22:21:53
seems to be just that, an exchange of supporting Tories in voting for ' something' in return (limited in voting support as above if that's right).

What that something is, we'll have to see I suppose. Can't be as retarded as creationism though :)

Why not though?

If the DUP say "We want X debated and we want your support", and the tories refuse, what's to stop the DUP from saying "Well fuck you then" and pulling out, leaving (even more) of a mess for the tories?


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: sonicyouth on Saturday, June 10, 2017, 22:28:59
Justine Greening, education secretary, came out only last year. Bet her next chat with Teresa will be fun


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Batch on Saturday, June 10, 2017, 22:34:37
Why not though?

If the DUP say "We want X debated and we want your support", and the tories refuse, what's to stop the DUP from saying "Well fuck you then" and pulling out, leaving (even more) of a mess for the tories?

Ask the Lib Dems what happens when you start conceding in the wrong way. OK not exactly the same, but the long term damage to the Tory party would be colossal.

Well, in my opinion anyway. I couldn't see how May wouldn't have ended up with a massive majority when she called the election either.


Title: Re: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: horlock07 on Saturday, June 10, 2017, 22:51:23
Statistically, it's likely to be a hell of a lot more than 13. Although it may well be that few that are openly gay. Even then. I'd be surprise if it wasn't more.

Ruth Davidson, the leader of the Scottish Tories, is about to marry her long-term partner, a marriage that would be illegal if the DUP had their way. She's sought specific assurances about the DUP from May and is currently having to fight off rumours she's planning to take the Scottish Conservatives out into a separate organisation. (I'd lay a penny to a pound those rumours are bollocks, FWIW)
At least 19 is the number doing the rounds, plus as you say Davidson who seems to have done more for the Tories than May.

So DUP bring 10 seats, buts going to seriously undermine 19 MPs, I assume May is as shit at maths as she is at elections​...

And that's ignoring the erm terrorism issues.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Batch on Saturday, June 10, 2017, 22:59:48
But do the Tories not have an overall majority in England?  Of the 650 parliamentary seats, 533 are English.  I can't find how many of those were won by the Tories online - but fairly sure it's 267 or over (which is what they would need to pass English-only legislation).

Labour 28 (W)  + 7 (S) = 35 so 227
Cons 8 (w) + 13 (S) = 21 so 296 (Speaker removed)

But I'm not sure I understand Evel really. Isn't it just that proposals that only affect England can get vetod by the comittee of English MPs. i.e. the legislation still has to go through commons so has to get majority backing, but can be later blocked.





Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Posh Red on Sunday, June 11, 2017, 11:21:08
Well, in my opinion anyway. I couldn't see how May wouldn't have ended up with a massive majority when she called the election either.

That's the problem when your only policy was, "Don't vote for him".

Then when you do try & announce something else you keep changing your mind.

As with you I thought that the only way the Tory's didn't get an increases majority was if they fucked up their campaign. Fortunately they did.

Most people were complaining that it was a bad thing that there was no effective opposition, well at least we have now, although it's a concern that the Government will so quickly jump into bed with what is effectively a political wing of a Terrorist organisation, albeit one that we generally have sided with. (a bit like the Mujahideen when the Russians invaded Afghanistan, they were OK then ;) )


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: bamboonoshoe on Monday, June 12, 2017, 00:29:05
Remember getting belittled by several on this thread for claiming a "hung parliament" outcome. In fact it was absurd to think it would happen because...you know...Tory landslide obvs  :clap: :Ride On Fatbury's Lovestick: :soapy tit wank:


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: horlock07 on Monday, June 12, 2017, 09:39:15
A view from over the pond... (sort of)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hj5E-SzlBDc


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Tails on Monday, June 12, 2017, 10:32:32
A view from over the pond... (sort of)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hj5E-SzlBDc

That is superb


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: herthab on Monday, June 12, 2017, 10:41:33
A view from over the pond... (sort of)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hj5E-SzlBDc

'Thatcher in the rye..' Very good.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Chubbs on Monday, June 12, 2017, 13:03:53
I see they've delayed the queens speech...


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Batch on Monday, June 12, 2017, 13:13:51
I see they've delayed the queens speech...

Presumably they haven't quite got the DUP agreement in place then.



Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Chubbs on Monday, June 12, 2017, 13:15:14
Presumably they haven't quite got the DUP agreement in place then.


You could say that


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: horlock07 on Monday, June 12, 2017, 13:44:30
Presumably they haven't quite got the DUP agreement in place then.



I have heard they sent a draft to the palace earlier and the Queen said she was not going to read such bollocks out on air, apparently saying Strong and Stable over and over again for 25 minutes is not acceptable?


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Batch on Monday, June 12, 2017, 13:47:40
I have heard they sent a draft to the palace earlier and the Queen said she was not going to read such bollocks out on air, apparently saying Strong and Stable over and over again for 25 minutes is not acceptable?

But nothings changed, nothings changed.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: horlock07 on Monday, June 12, 2017, 13:48:39
But nothings changed, nothings changed.

Apparently its actually due to the DUP and Goat Skin, - seriously!


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: pauld on Monday, June 12, 2017, 13:49:15
The Green Party have criticised Gove's recall as environment secretary (a decision that's right up there with the alliance with the terrorist-sympathising gaybashing bigots IMO) saying he is "entirely unfit for the role of environment secretary". Which begs the question of what he is fit for?


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: RedRag on Monday, June 12, 2017, 13:53:12
Apparently its actually due to the DUP and Goat Skin, - seriously!

because the speech has to be written on goat's skin parchment paper, which takes a few days to dry - and the Tory negotiations with the DUP mean it cannot be ready in time.

Is this the Government hoping to free us from EU red tape?


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: pauld on Monday, June 12, 2017, 13:56:19
because the speech has to be written on goat's skin parchment paper, which takes a few days to dry - and the Tory negotiations with the DUP mean it cannot be ready in time.
Could they not just write it on Theresa May?


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Chubbs on Monday, June 12, 2017, 13:58:18
Could they not just write it on Theresa May?
Goat, Satan....close enough


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: horlock07 on Monday, June 12, 2017, 14:00:17
Could they not just write it on Theresa May?

Bung her in a bottle and throw her overboard?


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: RedRag on Monday, June 12, 2017, 14:09:13
TM should be shown more respect.

She has made an immense personal contribution to a changed political outlook for the UK


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Bob's Orange on Monday, June 12, 2017, 14:16:24
This is class from Town fan David Squires -

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/ng-interactive/2017/jun/12/david-squires-on-theresa-mays-deal-with-the-dup


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Reg Smeeton on Monday, June 12, 2017, 15:27:58
The Green Party have criticised Gove's recall as environment secretary (a decision that's right up there with the alliance with the terrorist-sympathising gaybashing bigots IMO) saying he is "entirely unfit for the role of environment secretary". Which begs the question of what he is fit for?

It is being questioned as to whether the return of Gove, is a personal favour to Murdoch, in return for the Sun backing off.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: mystical_goat on Monday, June 12, 2017, 18:01:52
TM should be shown more respect.

She has made an immense personal contribution to a changed political outlook for the UK

Am "immense personal contribution" to.... wrecking the Conservative party? Continually missing her own targets (by quite some way) as home secretary for six years? Making the Labour party electable again? I'm struggling to think of other achievements.

Re: Gove, as someone who works in education, and with friends who work in the justice system, I despise the man. However, I like the idea that he could be there as a potential warning/prevention measure to Boris if he tries mounting a leadership bid again.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: herthab on Monday, June 12, 2017, 18:03:38
Am "immense personal contribution" to.... wrecking the Conservative party? Continually missing her own targets (by quite some way) as home secretary for six years? Making the Labour party electable again? I'm struggling to think of other achievements.

Re: Gove, as someone who works in education, and with friends who work in the justice system, I despise the man. However, I like the idea that he could be there as a potential warning/prevention measure to Boris if he tries mounting a leadership bid again.
The tories are a clusterfuck and I'm thoroughly enjoying it.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Ardiles on Monday, June 12, 2017, 18:53:14
The phrase that keeps playing in my head at the moment is 'Politics is not a game!'  (As delivered by Head Girl Theresa May to Nicola Sturgeon earlier in the campaign.)  It got up my nose then - but now, how can anyone doubt that game-playing is all the Tories are doing?  Everything that is happening this week is damage limitation for the benefit of the Conservative Party, with the needs of everyone else a distant second.  Charlatans, the lot of them.

I'm not enjoying it because the stakes are too high.  David Davis today has gone all out to shore up his previous position on a Hard Brexit - which necessitates keeping TM in post, pretty much the only reason she's still there.  Carrying on as if the election had never happened; as if the electorate had not just punished the Conservatives for pursuing a 'harder' form of Brexit that most of the country seems uncomfortable with.  'As you were, lads.  Don't blink.  We're ramming this through anyway, and fuck the consequences.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Batch on Monday, June 12, 2017, 19:54:46
it's a dangerous game to play, the Scottish conservatives won't be best pleased to be set on hard Brexit.

Then again that's what the their constituents knee when they voted Tory.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: herthab on Monday, June 12, 2017, 21:03:54
it's a dangerous game to play, the Scottish conservatives won't be best pleased to be set on hard Brexit.

Then again that's what the their constituents knee when they voted Tory.
I thought the DUP were also against a hard Brexit?


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Batch on Monday, June 12, 2017, 21:56:29
Apparently, though god knows what those nutty bastards will abandon for a bit of Tory love.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: pauld on Monday, June 12, 2017, 23:21:50
Apparently, though god knows what those nutty bastards will abandon for a bit of Tory love.
NOTHING! NEVER! NO ABANDONMENT! NO SURRENDER! DOWN WITH POT-POURRI!


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: ghanimah on Tuesday, June 13, 2017, 06:27:40

I'm not enjoying it because the stakes are too high.  David Davis today has gone all out to shore up his previous position on a Hard Brexit - which necessitates keeping TM in post, pretty much the only reason she's still there.  Carrying on as if the election had never happened; as if the electorate had not just punished the Conservatives for pursuing a 'harder' form of Brexit that most of the country seems uncomfortable with.  'As you were, lads.  Don't blink.  We're ramming this through anyway, and fuck the consequences.

The main problem with David Davis is he's another out of his depth. He sat in front of a select committee last year clearly not knowing the difference between the EU customs union and the single market. Pretty basic stuff. He is taking a "hard brexit" line largely due to stubbornly insisting that being in EFTA/EEA (single market) means accepting free movement even though he has been briefed to the contrary that it is not the case.

But certainly the arrogance of carrying on as normal and hijacking the result for their own ends does beggar belief. It's the equivalent of say if remain had won the referendum, and Cameron emerged on the Friday morning stating that he now took this as a mandate to join the Euro, Schengen and relinquishing all our other opt outs.

Certainly this issue is far bigger than the whims of the Tory Lunatic Fringe, and if reports are true that there are moves towards a cross party committee on the process of withdrawal that would be very welcome.

No wonder Barnier is getting frustrated at these bunch of children.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: StfcRusty on Tuesday, June 13, 2017, 08:30:02
This is class from Town fan David Squires -

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/ng-interactive/2017/jun/12/david-squires-on-theresa-mays-deal-with-the-dup

There should be more Children of the Corn references in modern life


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: tans on Tuesday, June 13, 2017, 11:21:25
Jeremy Hunt being reappointed as health minister pissed me off. These twats never listen


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Saxondale on Tuesday, June 13, 2017, 11:40:30
Reports that Sinn Fein may be taking up there 7 seats in the HOC this time.  Bringing the Tory / DUP alliance majority to just 4.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: tans on Tuesday, June 13, 2017, 12:25:40
May has caused a whole load of shit. Just resin


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Peter Venkman on Tuesday, June 13, 2017, 12:26:48
May has caused a whole load of shit. Just resin
That would be one sticky situation.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Arriba on Tuesday, June 13, 2017, 12:27:48
It does make me wonder how many Tory voters regret their vote now things have developed further.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Saxondale on Tuesday, June 13, 2017, 12:39:13
Lets just bring in the unionists and the catholics.  They're famously affable, good willed and love a bit o' the craic together dont they.  They wont mind being played with as a little pawn in a game to keep May in power.

Disgraceful behaviour, though why should I expect anything less.  Im just glad the Israeli's and Palestinians don't have any seats in Parliament.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Berniman on Tuesday, June 13, 2017, 12:42:39
It does make me wonder how many Tory voters regret their vote now things have developed further.

You could say the same about Brexit


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Flashheart on Tuesday, June 13, 2017, 12:43:37
Ir's not happening according to this: http://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/general-election/sinn-fein-say-they-will-not-take-up-westminster-seats-1-4474095


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: jayohaitchenn on Tuesday, June 13, 2017, 14:47:18
How about that totally ineffective opposition eh

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/theresa-may-austerity-brexit-plans-uk-leave-eu-hard-soft-latest-tax-cuts-welfare-benefit-a7787001.html


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Flashheart on Tuesday, June 13, 2017, 15:18:29
She's found the magic money tree then?


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: jayohaitchenn on Tuesday, June 13, 2017, 15:58:59
Must've been behind the terrorists all this time


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: RedRag on Tuesday, June 13, 2017, 16:33:39
May is a complete joke.  Over the last year she has changed her mind on:

1   Remain, just weeks after the referendum
2   exponential Probate Court fee increases, pulling them at the last minute
3   new NI Contributions for the self employed, just days after the budget
4   No Social Care contribution cap, just days after the manifesto
5   calling an election before the expiry of the fixed term, just days after her 6th denial
6   austerity itself, just days after the election
7   a hard Brexit just days after the election

and now on the need for neutrality on the Good Friday Agreement, it seems.

If she's not embarrassed or decent enough to resign, she is surely now the ENEMY OF THE PEOPLE she shamelessly purports to represent.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Audrey's Bellend on Tuesday, June 13, 2017, 16:59:11
Fuck me, she's a politician. What do you expect. The only one I've had any time for was Tony Benn - never wavered in what he believed in no matter how madcap some of them were.

Being in opposition means you can spout all sorts of nonsense.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: herthab on Tuesday, June 13, 2017, 17:07:24
Fuck me, she's a politician. What do you expect. The only one I've had any time for was Tony Benn - never wavered in what he believed in no matter how madcap some of them were.

Being in opposition means you can spout all sorts of nonsense.

Maybe that's the biggest thing that is wrong with politics in this country. No wonder so many people are apathetic, it's no wonder when the general belief is that most politicians are self serving scumbags with no real ideals of their own.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Reg Smeeton on Tuesday, June 13, 2017, 17:08:38
Fuck me, she's a politician. What do you expect. The only one I've had any time for was Tony Benn - never wavered in what he believed in no matter how madcap some of them were.

Being in opposition means you can spout all sorts of nonsense.

Tony spent some time as a Government minister under both Wilson and Callaghan.

I recall when he was Postmaster General, under Wilson, he wanted to replace the Queen's head on stamps, so that designers had a bit more space to play with. Her Maj told him to fuck off.

He did introduce postcodes, however.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Ardiles on Tuesday, June 13, 2017, 17:15:26
He did introduce postcodes, however.

...and with it (due to poor alignment), a decline in the importance of counties.

Much prefer the French and American systems which align postcodes with départements and states respectively.  Our system is muddled by comparison.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Audrey's Bellend on Tuesday, June 13, 2017, 17:19:09
Maybe that's the biggest thing that is wrong with politics in this country. No wonder so many people are apathetic, it's no wonder when the general belief is that most politicians are self serving scumbags with no real ideals of their own.
Summed up perfectly.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Reg Smeeton on Tuesday, June 13, 2017, 17:19:09
...and with it (due to poor alignment), a decline in the importance of counties.

Much prefer the French and American systems which align postcodes with départements and states respectively.  Our system is muddled by comparison.

It was the Tories under Heath, who butchered the counties.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Bathtime on Tuesday, June 13, 2017, 17:22:26
Am I the only one who doesn`t actually like Jeremy Corbyn - reading this thread I reckon so but thought I would ask...the man had nothing to lose - offered us the solution to all our problems in one fell stroke ( well a few ) - an utopia dreamt up by cleverer than the Tories marketing department...we are turning into a nation of selfish souls and Corbyn tapes into it perfectly....sooner we get our minds around means testing the better - the gap between rich and poor is too wide - so those who can afford to do without things like winter allowances and free prescriptions should do so...why isn`t this an acceptable option - why can`t those who can afford to contribute to the NHS do so...I have to pay for my dentist, I don`t need free prescriptions or a winter fuel allowance thank you...honestly in politics just doesn`t pay off - offering free tuition just helps those who can afford it but fuck me does it get the votes in - well done Jeremy...I have voted for all three parties over the years, before anyone says `Tory .anker or worse - Corbyn isn`t the answer in my book....its a sad state of affairs and as always real honestly has gone out for a walk...sad times we live in...


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: jayohaitchenn on Tuesday, June 13, 2017, 17:30:43
Fuck me, she's a politician. What do you expect. The only one I've had any time for was Tony Benn - never wavered in what he believed in no matter how madcap some of them were.

Being in opposition means you can spout all sorts of nonsense.

You must like JC for the same reasons then?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wof4Knseo-o


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: jayohaitchenn on Tuesday, June 13, 2017, 17:34:19
Am I the only one who doesn`t actually like Jeremy Corbyn - reading this thread I reckon so but thought I would ask...the man had nothing to lose - offered us the solution to all our problems in one fell stroke ( well a few ) - an utopia dreamt up by cleverer than the Tories marketing department...we are turning into a nation of selfish souls and Corbyn tapes into it perfectly....sooner we get our minds around means testing the better - the gap between rich and poor is too wide - so those who can afford to do without things like winter allowances and free prescriptions should do so...why isn`t this an acceptable option - why can`t those who can afford to contribute to the NHS do so...I have to pay for my dentist, I don`t need free prescriptions or a winter fuel allowance thank you...honestly in politics just doesn`t pay off - offering free tuition just helps those who can afford it but fuck me does it get the votes in - well done Jeremy...I have voted for all three parties over the years, before anyone says `Tory .anker or worse - Corbyn isn`t the answer in my book....its a sad state of affairs and as always real honestly has gone out for a walk...sad times we live in...

Means testing is expensive and no one actually knows how expensive because it is expensive just to check! The likelihood is that means testing all pensioners would be more expensive than just giving them all free TV licenses, winter fuel allowance and a bus pass. A good way of handling it would be to make all these benefits available only to those that apply for them. Yes, some people who didn't need them would apply but some probably won't.

https://fullfact.org/economy/does-means-testing-pensioners-make-financial-sense/


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Audrey's Bellend on Tuesday, June 13, 2017, 17:35:08
Nobody can disagree with his principles - just the means to deliver them. I'm non political and have a healthy distaste for the lot of them.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: ghanimah on Tuesday, June 13, 2017, 17:47:12
Fuck me, she's a politician. What do you expect.

I expect some level of competence, May doesn't even have that.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Reg Smeeton on Tuesday, June 13, 2017, 17:53:48
I have to pay for my dentist, I don`t need free prescriptions or a winter fuel allowance thank you...

Are you old enough to be eligible?  If don't wish to receive these benefits, then you could donate the savings you make to a charity.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Bathtime on Tuesday, June 13, 2017, 17:59:04
Means testing is expensive and no one actually knows how expensive because it is expensive just to check! The likelihood is that means testing all pensioners would be more expensive than just giving them all free TV licenses, winter fuel allowance and a bus pass. A good way of handling it would be to make all these benefits available only to those that apply for them. Yes, some people who didn't need them would apply but some probably won't.

https://fullfact.org/economy/does-means-testing-pensioners-make-financial-sense/

How depressing is this - there has to be a way to get people who can afford to pay to cough up and how about the £ 800 million in missed NHS appointments a year - needs to be change - Corbyn may well be a man of principles ( ffs ) easy when you are sitting on the back bench not agreeing with anything any government proposes - do we really honestly believe he would change the world....??


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Bathtime on Tuesday, June 13, 2017, 18:02:12
Are you old enough to be eligible?  If don't wish to receive these benefits, then you could donate the savings you make to a charity.

Yes I am old enough - I am still working and yes I could donate but its not the right way to change things is it??


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Reg Smeeton on Tuesday, June 13, 2017, 18:11:52
Yes I am old enough - I am still working and yes I could donate but its not the right way to change things is it??


I assume you don't mind people who need these benefits receiving them?  So maybe Jayo's suggestion that you have to apply has some merit.  After all you don't receive a bus pass, unless you apply. I guess you haven't.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Bathtime on Tuesday, June 13, 2017, 18:20:01
I assume you don't mind people who need these benefits receiving them?  So maybe Jayo's suggestion that you have to apply has some merit.  After all you don't receive a bus pass, unless you apply. I guess you haven't.

I honestly do not mind those people who really do need it being looked after - but I really do not like those who play the system and there are a number out there....why can`t some common sense come to play - man will always be greedy - the benefit system needs to be reviewed but to mention that is seen a heinous crime - we live in a culture of expecting something for nothing and don`t really appreciate actually how well off we are in general terms - I think Corbyn is well meaning in his principles but not a man who could govern realistically - unfortunately you cannot keep all the people happy all of the time....the division needs to be narrowed by all of us not - and no I don`t claim a bus pass Reg...


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Reg Smeeton on Tuesday, June 13, 2017, 18:39:43
I honestly do not mind those people who really do need it being looked after - but I really do not like those who play the system and there are a number out there....why can`t some common sense come to play - man will always be greedy - the benefit system needs to be reviewed but to mention that is seen a heinous crime - we live in a culture of expecting something for nothing and don`t really appreciate actually how well off we are in general terms - I think Corbyn is well meaning in his principles but not a man who could govern realistically - unfortunately you cannot keep all the people happy all of the time....the division needs to be narrowed by all of us not - and no I don`t claim a bus pass Reg...

So your gripe is more with the benefits system as a whole, rather than specific age related examples?

There's a school of thought, currently being tested in places like Finland, that as automation increasingly replaces jobs and many jobs are ZHC...the benefits system could be scrapped by giving everyone a universal wage.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: theakston2k on Tuesday, June 13, 2017, 19:26:14
I honestly do not mind those people who really do need it being looked after - but I really do not like those who play the system and there are a number out there....why can`t some common sense come to play - man will always be greedy - the benefit system needs to be reviewed but to mention that is seen a heinous crime - we live in a culture of expecting something for nothing and don`t really appreciate actually how well off we are in general terms - I think Corbyn is well meaning in his principles but not a man who could govern realistically - unfortunately you cannot keep all the people happy all of the time....the division needs to be narrowed by all of us not - and no I don`t claim a bus pass Reg...
Agree with this, the term 'poverty' was banded around a lot during the election campaign and when you compare it to real poverty in third world countries it's just an over dramatic term here. Most housing association and sheltered housing properties  near me have sky, cars, countless dogs that get their vets fees paid for by the PDSA and a lot of people see it as their right rather than a privilege to have these luxuries.  I have a real issue with tax payers income tax and NI contributions paying for things like dogs (I don't mean guide dogs) as it just isn't where the money should be allowed to go.
You can almost spin Corbyn's "for the many not the few" catchphrase to he wants "the few to pay for the many". This is not a solution to the countries issues either, it shouldn't be put on a minority to bail out the lower echelons of society as yes maybe they can afford to pay even more in tax but there is a limit.
There's no easy solution to find a balance and we seem to be stuck with austerity from one party and socialism at the other with no reasonable middle ground. The wastage in the public sector and from people who play the benefits system is astronomical and would probably eliminate the need for austerity and then some but parties only dabble in reforms as it will impact jobs and may upset some people which they don't like doing as it may lose them elections.
Theresa May is arguably the worst PM we have ever had yet she still won an election (ok no majority) and that's a right sad state of affairs.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: jayohaitchenn on Tuesday, June 13, 2017, 22:08:29
I say scrap the whole benefits and tax free earnings system and implement Universal Basic Income. Hard to feel hard done by when everyone gets the exact same benefits. It also solves the problem of people on benefits not being able to take a job without losing their benefits, so even single days of work become easier and more profitable.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basic_income


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: bamboonoshoe on Tuesday, June 13, 2017, 23:02:07
I say scrap the whole benefits and tax free earnings system and implement Universal Basic Income. Hard to feel hard done by when everyone gets the exact same benefits. It also solves the problem of people on benefits not being able to take a job without losing their benefits, so even single days of work become easier and more profitable.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basic_income

I'm a massive UBI backer. It is also then down to the individual if they build on that "allowance" or use it shrewdly. As you say this gives people more freedom to take temporary/sporadic work placements. Some may waste the "allowance" but many won't once you have to use it for things like rent/utilities/food/life etc. I also believe that people will become (ironically) more self reliant and it will be down to ourselves how much we want to succeed.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: horlock07 on Wednesday, June 14, 2017, 11:15:09
She's found the magic money tree then?

She found it when she found c.£130m to pay for the pointless election, which would coincidentally pay the salaries of c.4500 nurses (it being a nurse she insulted with the original statement).


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Ardiles on Wednesday, June 14, 2017, 12:54:59
She found it when she found c.£130m to pay for the pointless election, which would coincidentally pay the salaries of c.4500 nurses (it being a nurse she insulted with the original statement).

I have a slightly different take on the £130m cost of the election.  The total basically works out at £2 for every man, woman & child in the UK - so for my family, it's cost less than a tenner.  For this relatively modest sum, we have achieved the emasculation of the Conservative Party and the sidelining of the right-wing faction (Davis, Johnson, Grayling etc.) that appeared to have taken over the Brexit process for the purpose of driving through their free-market, low regulation, low investment agenda that would (&, if we're not careful, still could) dominate the political agenda for decades.

I'd say that that was money well spent.  Best £10 I've spent all year.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Bogus Dave on Wednesday, June 14, 2017, 13:58:36
Sinn Fein meeting may at Downing Street tomorrow.

What a lovely old time it is


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: RobertT on Wednesday, June 14, 2017, 14:41:31
On the question of benefits, around 40% of the total benefits budget, which itself is a third of total govt spending, goes on pensions.  Things like fuel allowances are tweaking the fringes.  Anyone wanting to cut the benefits budget would need to focu on the cost of pensions and the only real way to do that is increase the age.  Given the rise in life expectancy it seems reasonable, but it would take a braved politician.

The Basic Income suggestion is an interesting one given the rapid rate of technology advancement and should probably now become a key focus of all parties.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Simon Pieman on Wednesday, June 14, 2017, 15:15:44
The state pension age has increased and is planned to be increased further. The government have been very explicit with this.

I fully expect it will keep creeping up.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Reg Smeeton on Wednesday, June 14, 2017, 15:29:34
The state pension age has increased and is planned to be increased further. The government have been very explicit with this.

I fully expect it will keep creeping up.

Indeed it has. The idea being of course that you get plenty of notice and can prepare accordingly. However, I know a number of women their early 60's, who have been royally screwed over by the Tories and their chums in the LibDem coalition.

https://www.theguardian.com/money/2016/jul/09/women-pension-age-trap-40000-out-of-pocket


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Simon Pieman on Wednesday, June 14, 2017, 15:39:45
Indeed it has. The idea being of course that you get plenty of notice and can prepare accordingly. However, I know a number of women their early 60's, who have been royally screwed over by the Tories and their chums in the LibDem coalition.

https://www.theguardian.com/money/2016/jul/09/women-pension-age-trap-40000-out-of-pocket

The problem has been exasperated by poor communications of the Pensions Act 1995 by the then Tories and subsequent governments too


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Reg Smeeton on Wednesday, June 14, 2017, 15:55:31
The problem has been exasperated by poor communications of the Pensions Act 1995 by the then Tories and subsequent governments too

However if you're on the receiving end it's a bugger. There should of course be equality of sexes, so it was only right that women's SPA should be raised to that of men.... it was never going the other way. 

Essentially, there used to be a compact between citizen and state in this country... brought about by the heroism and sacrifices of the 20th Century generations, and the acceptance by the ruling classes that they had some responsibilty, for ensuring this compact is maintained.  It's not completely lost....but looking increasingly fragile.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Blimp on Wednesday, June 14, 2017, 22:35:54
Well I guess we'll see in June.

 :girlgiggle:  :smugfu:  :smugfu:  :smugfu:


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: ghanimah on Thursday, June 15, 2017, 10:58:47
:girlgiggle:  :smugfu:  :smugfu:  :smugfu:

Your point is...?


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: ibelieveinmrreeves on Thursday, June 15, 2017, 20:09:31
I was sad enough to go back and find the post quoted.

Did you sign back up just for that, The Saint?


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Flashheart on Thursday, June 15, 2017, 20:15:01
I was sad enough to go back and find the post quoted.


Especially sad considering you could have just clicked on the post link above the quote, which would have taken you there directly.  ;)


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: jayohaitchenn on Thursday, June 15, 2017, 20:23:56
Especially sad considering you could have just clicked on the post link above the quote, which would have taken you there directly.  ;)

Well fuck my old boots. Top tip, that.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: ibelieveinmrreeves on Thursday, June 15, 2017, 20:59:09
Especially sad considering you could have just clicked on the post link above the quote, which would have taken you there directly.  ;)

Every day is a school day. Or "fuck my old boots" as one might say.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Blimp on Friday, June 16, 2017, 15:27:06
I was sad enough to go back and find the post quoted.

Did you sign back up just for that, The Saint?
:nod:


Title: Re:
Post by: horlock07 on Sunday, June 25, 2017, 18:37:10
If only we had known all them years back that it was actually a documentary...

https://youtu.be/7qOyT3ZkUxI


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Blimp on Monday, June 26, 2017, 10:23:17
"This is a Government getting on with the job"    of making the Tories unelectable for a decade or so....


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Nemo on Monday, June 26, 2017, 12:52:14
Whatever you think of the DUP (and it's not much, I'm sure) they appear to have got a brilliant financial deal for Northern Ireland. Perhaps we should all vote for regional parties prepared to sell their support to the highest bidder?


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Saxondale on Monday, June 26, 2017, 13:30:07
Seriously, is this in anyway justifiable?  I cant see how even the most ardent tories can claim that May is viable as a leader.  She's fucked up a vanity general election and to cling to power is now in the pockets of the DUP.  She's spunking taxpayers money on elections and deals that are not for the good of the country in anyway.

Come on you tories, justify this - without saying 'to keep in power and keep corbyn out'.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Blimp on Monday, June 26, 2017, 13:36:47
It's just about self interest - which sums up the Tory philosophy really.

Rich, Stupid or Selfish sums up any Tory voter up in my view.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: tans on Monday, June 26, 2017, 13:45:49
They found the magic money tree then. Tossers


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: pauld on Monday, June 26, 2017, 13:59:38
They found the magic money tree then. Tossers
tbf if you're looking for a pot of gold, leprechauns are good people to go to. Although I think she's got the transfer of funds the wrong way round.


Title: Re:
Post by: horlock07 on Monday, June 26, 2017, 18:55:54
I understand the short delay was just a question of dotting the i's and crossing out the LGBT's.




(Cannot take credit for that, shamelessly stolen from Twitter!)


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: chalkies_shorts on Monday, June 26, 2017, 22:06:06
It gives them a few more quid to kill catholics


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: mystical_goat on Tuesday, June 27, 2017, 18:05:51
In principle the Tories are literally buying the votes of the DUP, what a message to all the youngsters who have become more interested in politics lately. The message being that, despite it being swept under the carpet for the last two elections, first past the post and the rest of the system is nonsense and at times patently corrupt. AV and an overhaul needed.

Thoughts on Cable as the new Lib Dem leader? He's not been afraid to go against the grain of his own party and leaders at times, though I do not know a lot about him otherwise in terms of his principles and history.


Title: Re: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: horlock07 on Tuesday, June 27, 2017, 19:35:07
In principle the Tories are literally buying the votes of the DUP, what a message to all the youngsters who have become more interested in politics lately. The message being that, despite it being swept under the carpet for the last two elections, first past the post and the rest of the system is nonsense and at times patently corrupt. AV and an overhaul needed.

Thoughts on Cable as the new Lib Dem leader? He's not been afraid to go against the grain of his own party and leaders at times, though I do not know a lot about him otherwise in terms of his principles and history.
Assuming that May manages to spend enough to cling on, he will also be nearly 80 before he has to contest an election....

In better news house prices in London are up after a woman spent £1.5bn on a place in Downing Street....


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Leggett on Thursday, June 29, 2017, 10:11:08
Both Tomlinson and Buckland voted down the proposal to end the Public sector pay rise cap. Cunts.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Reg Smeeton on Thursday, June 29, 2017, 10:15:09
Both Tomlinson and Buckland voted down the proposal to end the Public sector pay rise cap. Cunts.

Not exactly surprising... of course, they had an 11% pay rise. It's debatable if they're in the public sector.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: pauld on Thursday, June 29, 2017, 10:16:06
Both Tomlinson and Buckland voted down the proposal to end the Public sector pay rise cap. Cunts.
tbf when you've just spunked a billion quid on bribing reactionary terrorist gunrunners, you can't go around wasting public money on a couple of extra quid for such notorious layabouts as coppers, firemen and nurses. That wouldn't be prudent management of the nation's finances would it now?


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: pauld on Thursday, June 29, 2017, 10:27:47
And no government money to help councils pay for the fixes required to make high rises safe post-Grenfell. But still plenty for tax cuts for the rich. Burn, peasants, burn.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Chubbs on Friday, June 30, 2017, 09:09:07
How can Tory supporters not see what May is doing here. So annoying.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Leggett on Friday, June 30, 2017, 09:44:55
They can, they're just willing to ignore it. Nobody is stupid enough to not see what's happening.


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Tails on Friday, June 30, 2017, 09:58:39
And normally if you mention it you get a....

"well Diane Abbott is racist. And Corbyn went to Glastonbury or something. AND THE LEFTIES MADE GLASTONBURY MESSY"


Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Posh Red on Friday, June 30, 2017, 11:47:25
And normally if you mention it you get a....

"AND THE LEFTIES MADE GLASTONBURY MESSY"

This one made me laugh, all the crap on social media about the fact that mountains of rubbish was left by the eco warriors at Glastonbury.

Most of the people I know that go are as far from left wing eco warriors as you can get. It's not a hippy festival anymore, it's a massive commercial enterprise



Title: Re: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?
Post by: Reg Smeeton on Friday, June 30, 2017, 12:31:25
This one made me laugh, all the crap on social media about the fact that mountains of rubbish was left by the eco warriors at Glastonbury.

Most of the people I know that go are as far from left wing eco warriors as you can get. It's not a hippy festival anymore, it's a massive commercial enterprise



You can get a yurt that sleeps four with a corporate hospitality package for 10 grand....

http://www.landnsky.co.uk/yurts#large-yurts

Any self respecting hippy can't resist a yurt