Thetownend.com

Got to disclose your name to a British Police Officer when asked?
I said you have too a friend says not?
Is there any legal beagles out their put an end to our argument?

Legally no you don't unless they have a reason for it e.g. you are suspected of being involved in a crime and at that time you can still refuse until you have actually been arrested which then you have to give your name (if you don't then you can be charged with impeding an officer in an investigation).

BUT morally, why would you refuse if you have done nothing wrong? It will put the officer on edge thinking you have something to hide, unfortunately some people have this ideaology that the police are corrupt and if you give your name to them then they will find something to charge you with but if you haven't done anything wrong then they can't.

This is all about the Bristol guy who was tasered (sp) after refusing his name and it escalated into a ruckus. Offering my name wouldn't be a problem for me but then I don't carry baggage.

No, that is always the issue with Section 60, they have no legal powers but often use search powers to find out by taking your wallet, card details etc.

Ha ha ha ha. There speaks the voice of sheltered privilege.

Definitely not sheltered and have been in trouble with the police but every time I have been dealt with, it was with respect everytime.

I have brothers who have had a few more dealings with the police and they are the same even though the police could have easily been a lot worse with them (one got caught with Class A at a festival).

I live in the Cotswolds so don't get involved with the town or city based police officers, if I get stopped by the police I am respectful and get the same back. I got pulled over after leaving a festival (where drinking and drug taking was common), I was asked if I had taken anything, I was asked to provide details for my insurance and was breathalysed..... within 3 minutes I was back on my way with no issues.

The only time people seem to get a hard time from police is when they give them a hard time, if an officer asks for your name, give them it, if they want to search you, let them. Ok it might infringe your rights but if you refuse to do these then you automatically get seen as someone who has something to hide, if you're not doing anything wrong then you have no reason to not be respectful to an officer and give the details they require.

I get it some officers are bad, corrupt and treat people like shit but they are very few and far between, if you get stopped, ask what it's for and dialogue with them.

 The last time I had dealings with OB, was about 4 years ago. The fella was a complete cock, now bear in mind I'm an old bugger, I was doing nowt other than being on the street late at night with a bird, who wanted some physical attention.  This seemed to upset matey boy who perhaps thought I was offending public morals. So he felt he could intrude,  I refused to give him my name as is my right, and pointed out that generally I was an upstanding citizen of long standing with an unblemished record on the side of law and order, so maybe he'd be better off doing his crime fighting elsewhere.

He explained as far as OB was concerned there was no such thing as being on the side of law and order...to them all people are treated the same....so I asked, as criminals?

This upset him, so he started to shove me down the street in an aggressive fashion...I pointed out this was quite unnecessary due to my age, and that the only reason for me being close up to his face was because of age related hearing problems. As luck would have it someone I knew was passing, so I asked them to witness what was going on, which they were happy to do.  At which point, he got back in the car and fucked off  :)

Reminds me of this.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ot68mmqkmp0

Respect is a two way street.  The police are there to uphold the law.   

How can exercising a right be giving them a hard time?  If I (as a member of the public) inflicted that degree of injury on a policeman because I felt I was receiving a hard time, I would fear the consequences. 

Like you I guess, I am white  and live in a chocolate box part of the country and (purely coincidentally) never have any unpleasant encounters with the police in that environment. 

It is telling that when the police realised they had been filmed and the status of the dreadlocked victim that they withdrew their charges.

I came across a prize one 18 months ago. Coming back from a one day folk festival with wife and 3 kids in my Mondeo I was driving down the a419. No cars any where until a car came from nowhere right up behind me and started tailgating me. I then spend up and slowed down it still tailgated me. I was getting quite worried as my family  are in the car. He then put on his blue flashy thing and pulled me. I wound down the window and he said he could smell cannabis. We all started laughing. He then said he could smell drink. He could as my wife and eldest had a few glasses of wine. He then told me my driving was erratic. I told him I was worried as some arsehole was tailgating me and that I now knew the arsehole was him. He said he needed to read my number plate. I said not for 5 miles he didn't. I then was brearhylised. Zero reading. He then checked for tax insurance etc and gave the car a once over. He then asked where I'd been and where I was going. During this another cop car arrived. I was then allowed to drive home to have another cop car sat opposite my drive waiting for me. He didn't like it when I told him he'd pulled over the most boring cunt he'd ever pulled over. Folk festival, sober, Mondeo, wife and kids, car all legal etc. This cop was a grade a cunt.

he didn't have an unpleasant encounter with the police, they asked him his name simple as that,the police were trying to apprehend someone, just trying to do there job which is fucking hard with society the way it is, he wasn't prepared to make life easy and tell them his name then it started to get heated, IMO the geezer had a problem with the police and chose to make it complicated

He voluntarily works with the police to act as a liaison between them and the local community. Suggests that he doesn't generally have a problem with the police. But I bet he will in the future, having been tasered for absolutely no reason. Won't help the coppers' efforts to persuade the local community they are reasonable decent people working to help the community and not a hostile force either.

Simple answer is NO. You don't HAVE to give your name to OB unless you're suspected of a crime.

Let me clarify; It's not illegal to refuse to give your name. If they suspect strongly that you've committed a crime, do you honestly think that they're going to let you go just because you gave them your name?

The easy way to handle yourself in a situation like the black guy in Bristol was facing is to ask them if you're under arrest. If the answer is no, then you're free to walk away.

If they want to question you, they'll arrest you anyway - specially if you start to walk away - regardless of whether or not you give them your name or show them your ID, so why make life easy on them?

And before anyone else comes up with the 'if you haven't done anything wrong, you've got nothing to worry about' routine, think again. OB are not your friends. They're looking to nick you, not eliminate you from their enquiries, and if you're unlucky enough to get their attention, treat them and the situation respectfully, but be firm.

They're not law makers or enforcers, despite what some of them think.

They police us with the consent of the governed - which is us. End of. They don't like smart arses reminding of that fact, but there you go.

The Bristol guy made the mistake of getting shitty with them, which I don't blame him for as they ended up harrassing him, and he was unfortunate to come across a female who seemed to panic when he got lairy (biggest mistake of her career, because she'll be thrown out of the force for what she did with the taser).

What happened to him proves my point though: They were obviously going to make an arrest anyway, and once he took the stance that he wasn't going to give him his name he should have kept calm. He was completely in the right legally, but he should have remained in control and talked to them respectfully.

I'd always advocate speaking to them confidently and respecfully as most of them are decent people. If you come across an arsehole, a rookie or a pair of good cop-bad cops, just keep calm and stand your ground, respectfully.

I believe the exception to this is if you're stopped in a motor vehicle, Then you have to tell them who you are by law.

I've tried this once. As it happens, the copper I spoke to seemed a really decent guy and almost looked hurt that I didn't give my name. He went to great legnths to reassure me, but I was polite and firm, and just told him that I'd just rather not give him my name unless he suspected me of committing a crime. He asked me what he should call me if he didn't have my name, and I just said SIR - the same as I'm calling you, sir.

In the end, he said I wasn't under attest and he didn't suspect me of committing an offence. We shook hands and I was off on my way.

Let's be honest here, i have in the past had a few runnings with the police so people would assume i would be anti police.

The one thing that really fucks me off is when people constantly just be awkward with them. Why not give your fucking name when asked?

One thing that caught my eye (so to speak), is it normal practice to taser people in the face, no idea but I can imagine that getting a load of volts through your eye is going to fuck your vision up long term is it necessary to do it there?

From my limited experience of dealing with the police a lot of officers have a fairly limited understanding of the complexity of the law and interpret it essentially as being I am a policeman, I know best and you will do what you are told!

Sir, does just fine, in the same way as I will use officer.  If arrested then a different matter.

So if a Policeman asks your name you wouldn't give it to him?

All police are bastards, no such thing as a good one, these days.

I have no time or respect for the thieving, intimidating, lying fuckers.
They would nick their mother just to get promoted.

BASTARDS!!!!

Depends on the circumstances..... but, if like the time I outlied earlier, I'm doing nothing remotely illegal, and they're sticking an unwanted nose in due to boredom, then no.

Bless, did someone get caught doing something they shouldn't do?

Either that is old enough to remember them as Maggie Thatcher's private SS.

I have never been in trouble with the police.

I used to work closely with the fuckers 15+ years ago, and the things they do and intimidate to get a guy to admit guilt and receive a caution just to improve there numbers is very bad.

I remember them telling a guy he was on CCTV in the town I live, and take the caution and that would be the end of it, there is no CCTV in my town you lying fucker.

I have been stopped on numerous occasions on the assumption I must have been drinking, I do not drink and drive, they then go through the complete car check when they find I am sober.

 

You must be a shit driver then

In my yoof i worked in a night club, so getting stopped by coppers at 4/5 am was a common occurrence on my way home. Half the time it didn't help that i stank of fags and booze but i never had a bad experience with them. They were just doing their job.

Mods - Reg has started hacking peoples accounts  ;)

 :pint:

:D

No, just old enough to remember that as a football fan a copper was not someone you asked for help at any point, ever.

You were as likely to get a kicking from them as you were from any opposition fan

I'd just give my name. No need to rock the boat so needlessly, but if it's one's right not to then that's their right.

The black guy was unnecessarily uncooperative though and he's supposedly a police race relations officer so it's odd that he was being so belligerent.

The police were assholes about it though. Are they allowed to try to force their way through his gate as they did? No need for the tazer either, completely unwarranted and there was no warning.

Just watched that video... The tasering was ridiculous. They could have easily detained him with minimal force by the looks of it; if they suspected him of a crime, put the cuffs on him and take him in. If he's not the right person, it's just a simple mistake, no harm done... he could have helped them with that in the first place.

I don't know what benefit knowing someone's name is going to be. It's barely the first thing you're going to need to ascertain if it's the person you're looking for (ie - most people would just say a false name if they know they're being looked for)

"We all agree..... 710 is a wanker"

I remember those days too and I ain't quite 50 yet.

Very much this, they used to come into the Town End and randomly kick and hit Town fans whether or not they were involved in any violence, the worst I ever experienced were the Notts coppers away at Mansfield in 85-86 when we won the title. They quite literally "took no prisoners" that day, wankers.

Didn't help with Town fans singing "Harry Roberts is our friend...." though.

Different times.....anyway enough digressing....

I remember that day,the OB had honed their skills at Orgreave and were ruthless.

Didn't ruin the occasion for me though.

I've had a few minor arguments due to standing my ground at various demos, plus briefly being arrested by MOD Police at RAF Molesworth which was scary. But my worst experience was the Battle of the Beanfield at Stonehenge. I couldn't believe what I was seeing - the Police rioted that day, they were totally out of control. They randomly smashed up vans and hit people over the head for no reason including one woman near me who was carrying a baby.

It was one of those things, whereby fellas 4 or 5 along on the terrace behind the goal got batoned, so I was just lucky to miss it.

OB were doubtless padded out with a few paramilitary types back then as there was a perceived threat to the state. Thatcher's notorious description of Trade Unionists as the "enemy within"

Didn't spoil my day either, I got out of the way of several swinging batons on the open ended terrace, nasty bastards they were.

The only other thing that sticks with me (other than the celebrations) was I drove my old Fiat Strada there from Swindon and we were ushered out of Mansfield at about 70mph through red lights with the coaches and all the supporters cars...they wanted us out of Mansfield ASAP and the 3,500 odd Town fans didn't really want to be kept there any longer than we had to!

1st and possibly only time the old bill has actively encouraged me to drive over the speed limit just to get rid of us, how times have changed :D

They were a particularly nasty bunch, we were lucky because we were farther back in the crowd behind the goal. 

I had an air horn with me that day, was fairly surprised the OB didn't take it off me :)

I also recall getting back home to the pub & gate crashing someone's birthday party & getting properly hammered.

It always made me smile after that day when the OB claimed they couldn't control the movement of football fans, when they had road blocks at most junctions up the M1 stopping coaches, although they were looking for miners rather than football fans

Having been pulled to one side at a London festival a couple of years ago, for smoking a jamaican cigarette and them finding much more than that on me, I learned to be as kind and polite as possible with the Police when possible.

I think I got lucky with things in general, also dropping in that I was a teacher of young children seemed to maybe help, and I was compliant with everything they asked - I even wrote down the address and telephone number of my school (even though I knew I didn't have to) because the wanker/actor in charge said he'd call my headteacher on Monday morning.

They threw away the baggie I had with me, and gave me a PND for possession of cannabis. They could have put me in prison.

Told my headteacher about it all the other day, she'd not heard from him and didn't care about the offence.

I'd probably not give my name unless they suspected me of committing an offence. I'd go for the, "Am I obliged to give you my details and for what reason (probably none)? Am I being detained? Am I free to leave? Thank you, bye."

I'm surprised your head didn't care. I've heard of similar circumstances where the individual concerned lost his job and was pretty much unemployable within teaching.

For a cannabis offence? Possession not dealing? and a PND offence (slightly below a caution but lasts for 100 years on record)?

Our head is very liberal and is very much of the opinion that if you come to work and do a good job, you can pretty much do what you want in your own time. I did think, when I met to tell her, that I could have been about to lose my job.

I know of one or two other people in our school who have criminal records, one for serious drugs for sure, but those are very old offences.

 Knowing you've been caught bang to rights, rather than being completely innocent yet still being treated as a criminal, is going to elicit a very different response....

from whom?

Always tried to be respectful first.

Then take it from there...

Interesting reading all of this, despite what a fair few seem to think, arrest is a last resort for the vast majority of PC'S I know.

Yes there are bad eggs, but these are few and far between and policing is a million miles away from what it was like in the 70/80s.

If I have reason to speak to someone and they refuse to tell me their name, obviously my interest/suspicion is going to rise.

Ive seen so many instances of police trying NOT to arrest people lately, last time being at a football match. But I guess bad experiences do stick in your head, and it's important to know your rights.

On my last day at work a man (tbf already in custody) told me his name was fuck bollocks.. I don't recommend you do that. One of Ells' top tips.

The short answer is No.

However, declining to give your identification details when asked by a copper MAY lead to your arrest if the copper has reasonable grounds to suspect an offence has been committed and that you may be responsible. If you provide the requested detail the option to report for summons or issue a traffic ticket or penalty notice for disorder is then on the table.

If the copper thinks you are someone else who is wanted for an offence, failing to identify yourself MAY lead to your arrest until such time as your identity has been confirmed/ the fact that you are not Charlie Big Potatoes who is wanted as being the leader of a drug cartel in Uffington has been established.

If the copper is engaged in stop and search or other patrol activities, most of which require the filling out of copious amounts of forms, declining to identify yourself may mean it takes a bit longer for the copper to fill out the forms as they are then required to enter more descriptive detail.

I used to do the coppering bit for a living.

As Ronnie Biggs sang "No one is innocent" If the police have reason to speak to you, you are somewhere, or in a situation out of the norm. As for teachers advocating drugs as normal, do us all a favour and get a job on the bins.

you know that's not true