Thetownend.com

Oh Ive never started one of these before.  What do I do?  Say something pithy about the opposition and predict we're going to struggle?

I lived in Northampton for 3 years and my missus went to uni there.  It was a shithole.  But lets face it Swindon is hardly Nirvana.

The jesus army have a large outpost in Northampton.  I told them they were wrong many times.

Last visit for me (apart from promoting a Jools holland gig at the derngate) was that memorable PDC era match on new years eve a few years back.  I said hello to Sonic on that day.

Anyway, they're on a high having got promoted and being in fairly decent form.  Were all over the place.  Who know.

6 all draw.

10-3 win. Branco with at least 5. for both teams.

Stayed in Northampton a couple of months back while the wife was on a course there, chav and Staffy central, horrible Town centre which could be vastly improved by demolition.

Dunno how the game will pan out TBH could go either way.

Live next door to said Jesus Army outpost, they're harmless, have a couple of big events a year but hardly hear a peep from them.

Northampton town centre is indeed a shithole, but from what I have seen of Swindon it's not much worse, admittedly I've not seen much of Swindon centre since I was a kid where I spent plenty of time causing trouble in Normans, my grandfather's shop.

Needless to say some of my mates are cobbs fans and I like to see them do well, especially since the dawn of franchise football, but I'd certainly prefer to maintain the upper hand over them tonight.

No idea which kind of town performance we'll get, hopefully not the kind that would play into their hands.

With Matty Taylor's set piece quality I would be very happy to take a draw. Think we'll lose 2-1

 Cobblers have won once here in 50 years..and that an end of season game with nothing on it for either side, when Jimmy Allan had to go off injured after about 15 mins in the days before sub keepers.

 It says something about our reduced status, that they go in as favourites.

 

I did a gig in Northampton a few months ago. Definitely has a Swindon feel about it. I quite liked it though

After the Gasheads performance I could see nothing but another embarrassing defeat - Saturday has given hope but I don't think we will get the freedom of the park that Oldham gave us, happy with a draw 1-1.

Last time i went there we won1-0 against coventry.delfouenso played for them.celebrated a late smith winner with sonic.going for an ironic delfouenso winner after the inevitable revell goal

The people let Northampton down, every year they have the Northampton music festival which is actually really good in the town centre with load of stages dotted around. Northampton is more of a rugby following town due to the saints.

The Jesus's army place used to be a cannon 3 screen cinema. During the day Northampton is OK but at night time it's horrible.

A good theatre with derngate, and a decent concert venue with the roadmender. Not much else to say about Northampton really

King Billys is a decent alternative bar!

I did a quiz there a couple of years back.....in a working man's club. Nice place, in the middle of an industrial estate, with a  2nd hand car sales pitch in the car park. It was summer and I liked how the locals, sat outside at tables, despite there not being a tree or patch of green to be seen...even the wrong directionn for a view of the Lift Tower.

Yeah you cant beat the billy! My bro has played there many times

Was that St James WMC??

Can't honestly remember what it was called....early start on a Sunday lunchtime, and a long quiz. I like CIU places...English Heritage should be looking after them rather than stately homes.

Confidence restored, hopefully, and a battling 2-1 win. Goddard and Beaks

Northampton Uni fucked me over and I'm still bitter 5 years later.

We're gonna win 4-0.

Town back to winning form but not in this game - has to be a draw 1-1

Cobblers are tough to beat. 1-1

What are they 1 defeat in 39, and some people still predicting we'll win, madmen!


2-1 win

2-1 Obika hattrick.

 :hmmm:

Brace for us, OG for them.

I don't think Northampton are a bunch of pussies like poor Oldham.
They'll do a job, we wont/cant compete.
A defeat and would think 0 2 is a get out of jail score.

Page is a defensive manager away from home. Not sure if that's a good thing or not.

Head says 1:1 but think we can nick it.

They'll come to not get beat and will succeed, thanks to Alex Revell. 1-1.

0-2 we're usually useless under lights  but I really hope I'm wrong this time

Positive as always  ::)

I will be happy with a draw

Sent from my SM-G935F

3-1 cobblers tonight typical swindon no balls loads of mistakes og and a sending off  maybe branco.

History will out. Town win to nil.

6231

1 3. Revell hat trick one a stupidly conceded penalty. Branco bullet header for us. 6300 with 700 from nton. They should bring a decent following. Should be a bit more civilised than games against them in 70/80s

That Kettering game springs to mind!

I forgot that Revell plays for the Cobblers now.  Always scores against us.  They've as good as arrived at the County Ground with a one goal lead already.

under Macari I remember us beating them 1 nil away, it was fucking carnage and thats no exaggeration,
didn't they have a 3 sided County ground then :hmmm:

Yep I thought it may be one of those "urban myths" about Revell always scoring against us but yes, he does pretty much. 8 goals against us in 10 games and 2 of those games he came off the bench in.

Yes I went to that game at the old cricket ground, wet windy day out on the open terrace a goal from Charlie Henry winning it, we had almost half the crowd of 4,500. They hated us back then always trouble liek when they attacked Town fans at Kettering a year or so earlier and 2 year before when they ran riot at the County Ground the year they beat us 5-1 and Bob Champion walked Aldaniti (I think it was Aldiniti anyway) round the pitch pre game.

Have you considered a civil partnership with inept and crass?  ;)

Those Northampton games were scary in the mid 80's ,hard to believe now.
There were stabbings at their place and some pretty nasty scenes here.
I remember the big graffiti about them under the Transfer bridge now painted over.

2-0 Swindon Beeks + Goddard

7324 (589)

Perhaps normy could officiate and they could all live miserably ever after.

TOWN STARTING XI | Vigouroux; Rossi-Branco, Thompson (C), Jones; Furlong, Kasim, Thomas, Goddard, Ormonde-Ottewill; Obika, Norris.

TOWN SUBS - Henry, Smith, Rodgers, Murray, Iandolo, Hylton, Delfouneso.

Can't argue with that, hopefully before long we'll see Murray back.

I've thought we've looked best this season with one up front and one behind, e.g. Obika and Goddard

As long as they don't breed...

I prefer realist.

1 0 down already.

Much to your delight

Wow we lasted long whos to blame. :Ride On Fatbury's Lovestick:

Beautyman

Shit defending.

no its not. I'm just going to keep on saying the obvious.

Power, Luke Warm and the Kiddies don't work.

And Thompson hits the crossbar.  Ten mins in, and it's already one of those nights.

I'm shocked. That's hard to believe!

How do you explain Oldham away?

No surely not?

Are people boycotting this game as well?

At least we're not Orient. 9 men, an injury and 0-1 down to Plymouth already.

I find a little comfort in the piss stains losing 1 0 at Southend

normal service resumed

The man who we 'fancied' according to Barry Fry, who was after a bit of the Ajose cash.

THAT is how to defend

Sounds like attack v defence at the moment. We just had 4 shots blocked in quick succession and have already had a rake of corners.

How the fuck can you miss not one but two open goals😵

Four shots and we still couldn't score!

Is Luke Norris basically Michael Smith but with better control and worse at finishing?

Didn't know that.

what the fuck.
I popped out to make the tea and we start playing football in the Northampton half. Strange times.

Normal service has been resumed.

Boos?

Are the commentators making it sound better than it is?

"a cheap shit Michael Smith" - Batch Jr after Rovers

I wouldn't say lack of effort tonight, but it's so one paced. that said we could have scored twice.

Northampton are pretty awful and we can't finish or make the right decision round the box.

Their time wasting puts us to shame yet only 1 minute added on. Same old same old!

Whilst we haven't played great we have created more than them, just unable to put the ball in the net.

As for their goal, was good play from their number 4, rather than poor defending. Although you would probably say one of ours should have fouled him & taken the booking

Ajose on the bench for Charlton tonight. Oh how we could do with him this season!

Murray on

For Jones, oddly.

Mint.

Guess Thomas has gone to centre half. Seems odd to not just swap Thomas for Murray unless Jones has a knock.

Why are we still so shit at corners ?

Because all we do in training is passing (probably).

Doubt set pieces are high on our agenda.

OOh its a corner.

Shaun Taylor retired.

and...nobody sings "ooh it's a corner" anymore  ;D

edit* MB beat me to it

The general quality of corners seems to have improved recently, I thought - particularly with Murray taking them, Kasim's are still hit and miss.

So ,why are we still shit at corners?

Murray!!!!!

Ooooooo Murray

15 all

Because we're Swindon Town, you ought to be used to this.

When was the last time we were good at corners?

Shit hooks

Pretty shit at defending them too

After all that chat we concede from a corner. Feeble

Williams needs demoting and Big Ron needs to have the job.

Didn't Billy Tuckers equaliser at Highbury, come from a corner.

I fucking give up with this lot

Useless bastards

Possession counts for nothing when you continually fail to get the ball in the box and can't defend set pieces.

Northampton have had two chances and taken them both. Sorry make that three chances. Utter bollocks. Third straight defeat at home. Fundamentally we're not very good.

Have we been done by the ref again?

surley not just branco to go now

Sigh. I just don't think I care that much any more. Just bollox

i think thats how we all feel mate.

Looked like a foul in the lead up, but doesn't take away the fact we're shit. Why did Williams not make a change earlier as well?

Surely something's got to change. We can't go on playing this way.

Just shows how shit Oldham must have been !!

Im beginning to feel no affinity with any of the current lot.thats never happened before

cant see anything changing mate until power either goes or leaves well alone and we get a proper manager in who decides how we play.

And the sooner the better.

From a personal point of view, we're losing 3-1 at home and I feel... nothing.

A shame.

We've been so poor defensively for a couple of years now, yet management have made no moves to sort it.

sam allardyce is available :)

Thank buggery I listened to my head and never wasted 70 quid driving down.

When you can't defend you can't defend. Saturday has obviously papered over the cracks, Williams is still not a manager who can see beyond his one dimensional style of football it would appear.  We need fresh ideas, especially at home where need to impose on teams.

If Jones coming off was tactical then I'm lost for words.

If I listened to my head I would'nt bother going again as long as Williams is in charge.

I'm done with it

Jones was injured according to the stonewashed jean wearing one

3-5-2 works it magic again. We simply don't have the players capable to play it for the majority of games. Williams needs to put his Pep bible back on the shelf and come up with his own ideas based on the ability of the players in front of him.

The only good thing to happen tonight is the piss stains losing 2-1.

Can't wait for Williams comments !!.

I think that's a worrying defeat.

If Power can't see that something needs to change, then maybe he's not the football man he thinks he is.  It's not even October yet, and this is already starting to feel like a relegation season.  And more worrying still, I think I'm starting to turn in to Reg.

6,509 with 500 visitors. Surprising that many turned up - they wont for much longer.

Hope the guy who threatened to take my 65 year old dad's jaw off is pleased with himself.  Squared up to him after dad took umbrage to him pushing him out of the way on leaving the Townend.  Belongs in prison the horrible cunt, no place in society for people like him, or his old man too for that matter.  Shameful

Consistently unable to defend, consistently utterly feeble from corners, what do we do in training, passing drills?

It's all well and good keeping possession better than the opponents but we seem unable to put the pissing thing in between the posts unlike many of our opponents who don't even need to play well to take the points from us.

And replacing Ajose with Norris from Coronation Street is just annoying. Our strikers are as dangerous as Switzerland in a world war.

He just said he is optimistic for the next game :Ride On Fatbury's Lovestick:

just listened to Luke Worms.

I'm so pumped up, I cant wait for the next game

Williams must treat the 1st XI as if they were a youth team where the result doesn't matter but style does.

It's getting more bizarre game by game where we serve up the same old tosh yet expect a different result.

I'm actually fairly confident that we could be in for a decent season.

I just don't think it will be with Luke Williams as the manager.

Williams
- Thought we had chance to win at 1-1
- Had energy & chances
- Got what we deserved
- Didnt defend with conviction
- Too easy for them to find space
- Northants played well. Made it difficult to score
- You have to be as intense and switched on when you dont have the ball.
- We were at the weekend but we are not consistent enough
- Have to address whats going wron
- Staff and players have to push themselves
- Have to work hard and smart to push forward
- We looked very together at the weekend.
- Team lacking in certain areas that needs to be addressed. Dont think there is a huge problem.
- Not worried about Kasim and Goddard arguing about free kick. Wants them both to show passion and get stuck in to win games
- Jones struggling after Oldham game. Wanted to play but leg tightened up
- Norris played well in first half. Competed well. Desperate for him to score and then show his quality
- Performance tonght has enables Williams to be more measured and calm. Although he wasnt in the changing room. Hes still optimistic
- We are a good team that can create chances. We need to take them and focus more on intensity of defending.

Must be on drugs.

Walked out early, won't be going back (ST holder) until a serious change takes place.  All the gloating and self praise from Williams really bit him on the ass tonight.  Second best all over the field, couldn't pass and our build-up so slow they were getting their whole team behind the ball.  Norris a waste of space as regards a goal scorer, Obika not far behind, the whole midfield as a team were non existent and cannot concentrate for 90 minutes.  Seemed a lack of desire and for a team with one of the best coaches in the country how come every team we face at home are better organised and wanting it more!!  Sad, sad performance - although it was an improvement on the Rovers performance but nowhere near good enough.  A change must happen and happen quickly.

Fucking idiot

Shocking Tom,hope your dad is ok.fucking pond life

We're just not good enough. We need a proper manager ASAP.

It's not yet inevitable that we'll go down, but it does look like we'll be in a fight to stay up. We're definitely getting to the stage of looking for 4 who are worse than us, and a few strugglers to have in a mini league towards the basement.

This is why Saturday is important as Shrews look like a fellow struggler, so a six pointer....

Not really surprising we've lost to Cobblers at the CG for the 2nd time in 50 years, because they're wage bill is probably higher than ours.  Take a fella like Beautyman who we were supposed to be interested in....ends up going there, and seems to be doing OK.

Whether the likes of Cobblers and Bury are overstretching themselves financially so will be fucked sooner or later, only time will tell.

The short term loan loss is a blow for Power, mind, fairly sure he'd be out haggling over a couple of players for a month if this was last year.

We need a manager,pretty fucking soon

11 points from 10 games would give us 52.8 over a whole season.

So current form (ie over the 10 games) will see us just about stay up. If the results get worse...

Williams has won 5 out of the last 22 league games.

Power gave him a 5 year deal- he must now take responsibility and sort out this mess.

Fucking hell Tom, what a cunt. Heard a couple were kicked out the Town End for fighting, knobends.
----------------
Onto the match:

The positives - Better than against Rovers. Thompson had a good game. Murray looked good. Boo looked OK too, though can't use his right foot. We created some chances that we should have buried. We also got into some good positions but fucked up the cross.

The negatives - Norris looked every bit the duff that some of the Gills fans said he was. Not sure what Williams saw - he didn't hold the ball up, got smaller on most of the headers and looked as threatening as Jamie Slabber. Obika wasn't much better, but I've seen him play well and so he escapes further scrutiny. Kasim was fucking hopeless. Thomas in the first half ambled around doing nothing. Goddard hasn't adjusted to the pace of league football yet and takes to long to pass.

But most of all of concern was
 1) mostly we are too slow doing anything, plod, plod, plod.
 2) We have a massively soft underbelly. I mean we can't fucking defend. Still. Such simple goals to give away. OK you could argue a foul on the third, but you have to play on and defend it - Williams was right there.

I'm not coming away encouraged tonight. This currently has a feeling we will be perpetually "nearly turning the corner".

But as I said last week, things can change. Get well soon Doughty, though I think that's not going to solve the issues.

Pass pass pass fuck up goal. Pass pass goal. Pass pass pass fuck up goal. Pass pass foul fuck up goal. We are in the shit big time as our defence is totally fucked. Can't get  angry any more. A shrug of the shoulders and expect the same next game.

Cheers Andy, pretty quiet drive home...  Fortunately the cobbs were still celebrating by the time we got to the car so not caught up in their traffic.  Couple of mates giving me shit already, not once have I lauded it over them after our many victories.

On a more positive note it was worth the ticket price to hear jayo serenade the Townend.

Exactly....which is why Saturday is so important. Win we're back on track for 52, draw at least keeps Shrews around the drop zone with us, lose and Power has a decision to make.

In 2005/06 we had 7 points after our 10th game. 3-2 defeat to Bradford with the young dynamic strike duo of Windass and Claridge tearing us apart.

Kingy was sacked after.

Was that was what the trouble in there was all about?

In 2010/11 we had 12 points after 10 games and still at least had a world class goal scorer in Charlie Austin (till January)

Our 10th game was a defeat to D&R after going 1-0 up in the first minute.
Their winner scored by Bas Savage, a truely terrible footballer.

No, no idea what that was while the game was still on, this was after.

Yes but we was a basket case then. Not like the present.

Little Power has a dream and Luke Worms is the best coach in Europe.

Basket case or not points on the board are still points on the board.

We haven't got enough and unless our form improves we will struggle.

Sounds like the inevitable Kasim disinterest has started

There are certain similarities to 05/06....namely losing a 20+ goal striker and getting in 2 non goalscorers as replacement, having said that Cureton was just a non goalscorer for that time.

Similarly trying to patch up a dodgy defence with loans....Patrick Collins anybody  :(

I think the win at Oldham, gives Luke enough credit to see if he can repeat it at Shrewsbury....but a loss meaning 5 in 6, should be the end of his tenure.

Absolutely disgusting, hope he is ok.

We only beat Oldham because they gave us the freedom of the park to play on, Northampton had a lot more savvy and nous to stop that - and we couldn't respond with a plan B!

Totally agree with you. Alas Power doesn't care if we get relegated, or the fans, as long as there is somebody to sell.

Time for Power to swallow some pride. Get a manager in, change the formation and the style. It doesn't work. Or better still let a new manager actually manage.

We look poor. We can't score and can't defend. It's not a great combination.

Oh and please drop Branco. He is a fucking liability at the back.

I said it before (quite a while back, I think it was on here) that Powers model isn't related to what division we are in at all. So whether relegation would overly concern him I don't quite know.

In 81/82 we were top after 10 games and still went down.  We could field a strike force of Andy Rowland, Paul Rideout  with Jimmy Quinn as back up and Roy Carter chipping in 13 from midfield.

I have not felt this dejected after a match for a long time Northampton were nothing special at all but they were just more decisive when they had the ball. The style of play is killing us we are slow to counter and when we get the 18 yard box we just have no creativity. I am really concerned with no loan system to delve into 1 or 2 injuries for defenders and we could be bottom before we can address it, for once Williams needs to grow a pair and try something different but we all know that won't happen as the style is dictated by Power. If we lose at Shrewsbury the next league home game is going to turn nasty if we go behind again people are starting to lose patience and the crowds will start to drop like a stone.

I wouldn't say that, I think he was just hideously out of form/confidence. He certainly seemed interested enough to snatch the ball of Goddard to put a free kick wide

People have stinkers every now and again

In Kasim's case he has a stinker every game between August and January and then every game between Feb and April.

He played alright earlier in the season, when the transfer window was..oh...

How exactly is he going to sell a club for more money in L2 than he is in L1 or the Championship?

Fuck me, he wants us to be relegated does he?
Is it him or Williams who tells Beaks not to kick the ball in the net?

I thought he meant the buy them cheap, sell them for more model. Not the exit strategy. You'd still think it would be easier to do that in L1 than L2 though.

 :no:We are not Barcelona playing in la liga,juventus in serie a,Bayern in the bundesliga.We have rejects,non league  and no hopers so why do we play one dimensional,predictable snail-pace boring mistake-laden uninspiring,frustrating emotional draining boring.boring boring,slow,boring,predictable,boring and slow so called (the right way to play) football.Oh i'm not happyby the way.

You're saying this because we lost.


Exactly. Still bullshit.

Has he put the club up for sale?
No
Did I say he wanted us to be relegated?
No

So, wind your neck in.

My point was simple - the 'philosophy' of playing a certain way, taking young players on loan and signing Academy rejects to improve and sell on - has no direct correlation to which division we are in.
That can potentially work at Championship, L1 or L2 level.
Therefore, I can't imagine which division we are in actually concers Power that much and ultimately....you'll get better crowds at the top of L2 than you will mid to bottom of L1.

er, do I need to point out a potential flaw in that :)

Just got back...

Me... My brother (who comes once every three years)... And a pal.....paid just short of £60 to watch utter shite.

We played well for nearly ten minutes of a 90 plus ET match. We are at home FFS!

Please, please, please ...anybody from USA, Thailand or Bongo Bongo Land don't tell me we were robbed or tell me I'm being negative.

That WAS shit!

We play one way...one way and if the opposition play anyway to nullify it...we are fucked. Royally.

Scored our goal from a bi product of an attack that broke down (great strike by Murray) but what a load of shite.

I'm losing the fucking will.

All you fuckers that slated those on Saturday who said Oldham were shit.....I hope you went tonight and witnessed this shit. If you didn't kindly fuck off and cease posting.

Come and pay your money. Your fucking tune will change rapidly.

If we finish sixth or seventh off bottom it will be an achievement.

Fuck knows what Power will be thinking...we will have no cunt to sell this season.

I couldn't give a shit if any of our defenders get injured as they are totally incapable of defending. Maldini would look total fucking shit in our defence. We might be better off playing 1 8 1.

That and the fact that Power said he'll only get his money back if we make the championship, so it won't work in L2 as choice of players is more limited. I haven't even looked at the fixture list but we need to win 3 out of the next 4 or 5.

I agree with you, but I take what  Power says with a liberal pinch of salt.

He is here to make a profit and move on, he's said so himself. So why would the division not matter?
The

That makes no sense. We've taken on an academy kid and turned him into a top L2 player or a top L1 player. Who is going to command the most £? Not going to be the former is i?

Back 3 system apart there seems a fundamental issue with how we try to defend. Branco's first instinct appears to be to try and let the ball go over his head and deal with it on the floor rather presumably as a possession retention method rather than head than head it on the full as any normal centre back would do. It's causing a fuck load of problems for us as ends up leaving us in a 50/50 with the striker, it's an utterly bizarre tactic especially with a liability like Branco. First rule of defending is don't let the ball bounce!

Vigs confidence in the defence seems shot as he was very reluctant to play the short ball tonight even if the defender had acres but then who can blame him....

Williams is utterly lost in his world that there is only one way to play football, great on paper but that's not how the real world works. If he genuinely believes things will changing without a change in approach then he really is in the wrong profession.

Amen to that, brother!

Almost every town fan i speak to is completely bored with how we play. Its the slow build up, pass back, slow build up again, pass sideways. Rewind and start again.

 Apart from James Brophy there is little in the way of pace and most players seem happy to get rid of the ball without risking anything pesonally.

Williams comes over as a boring smartass and is inarticulate (I fink this, I fink that). Fans have seen through all the rubbish excuses and attempts to make it sound like he has a grand masterplan and its only a matter of time before 'the lads' come good.

How can 'the lads' be inspired by a mockney chimp with no appreciable record in football management?

Everyone is pissed off. The football is boring, Power is becomming increasingly unpopular, results are awful, players should be doing much better but seem poorly and naively organised, the league position is dodgy and if we're not careful we'll be facing relegation quicker than we think.

I'm usually quite positive and attend half the games, I don't have the buzz this year at all. It's a chore to get upto to the CG or to an away game.

I haven't felt anything like this in the 19 years I've been attending, even when we were absolute dogshit. It's just so boring and predictable every game.

Charming! All I did was write what he said!

Interesting posts, didn't go but seen enough of us already this season to know we're in a rut and desperately need a change.

However is it really necessary for people to have a go at others? Fucking hell. We're all on here for the same reason

I'm pissed off, but this whole "WAAH ITS BORING" shit only comes when we lose.

Don't try and speak for other people.

I always give people at least 12 hours to talk absolute shit when their team lose. We've all been there. Served me well in life and work!

The problem is everyone is now in agreement that 3 at the back is a massive issue, I'm more bored of us conceding the same school boy goals that could be easily avoided with a more solid and less suicidal set up.
I've played as a keeper at reasonable level and I absolutely hate playing behind a back 3 as you just get roasted out wide unless you have 3 good centre backs and wing backs that are basically machines. We have none of these so don't have the personnel for the system which by basic logic would say he needs to change something but he is just totally blinded by his 'philosophy'.

Thought we played alright, shit goals to concede- Northampton scored from pretty much their best and only chances of the game where as we didn't. Corners need improving but they have needed that since the day of Ian Woan and Sammy Igoe left.

Agree with point about 3 at the back simply not working. Not sure 3 at the back is the 'philosophy' however. The philosophy as I understand it involves us dominating possession and moving opposition around before creating an opening - this can be done with 4 at the back, involving 4-2-3-1, 4-3-3 or 4-4-2. These formations give clear instructions to defenders, as well as not leaving us 1 against 1 every time the opposition break and or get it wide. It really is time to ditch this 3 at the back, Lingy saw sense.. why can't LW?

The back 3 is a necessity of our 'philosophy'. He loves wing backs and wants 3 in centre mid along with 2 up front and except for the odd move to a number 10 on a few occasions it's been the main stay of Power and Williams time here. I can't remember the last time we played a back 4 for a sustained period of games....

Lingy reverted to it didn't he? Guess that could be classed as unsustained - was only a few

And resulted in our upturn in form, as I said I don't like a back 3 as it's a really difficult system to master. But as I also said there are fundamental issues with our defensive approach, I really don't get Branco's strategy of letting the ball go over his head....

Thought afterwards you might think it was directed at you - it wasn't. I was passing judgement on Williams' excuses!

is frustrating and somewhat tedious OK?

obviously when we win it's less frustrating and the tedium slips into the background. just like it does winning long ball, or winning ugly..

It can't just be the formation. We won the third tier in 95/96 playing 352. Bristol City won it two years ago playing 352. It comes down to our approach to defending.

agreed. until recently it looked like the tactic was let them cross it in and (fail to) deal with it then.

yesterday though we were just poor, run through three defenders... unmarked header.. yesterday was just poor defending

There are only 2 reasons for shit defending.

Shit defenders or shit coaching (or lack thereof).

Purely as 'entertainment' and taking away the supporter bit, I don't mind the 352 system. But when you turn up week after week knowing you are going to witness the same mistakes as you've seen for the last 2 years  it does sap your willingness to turn up.

It's bad enough to read and hear about the defensive cock-ups.

About time for a Power phone in. Not that that would change anything muchly.

you do have to credit the opposition too Rory. Northampton weren't great last night but played as a unit and got the crucial breaks/goals.

our often slow tempo also let them get back in numbers and defend well. Still think on another day* we'd have scored a couple more and things may have been different.

*obika probably isn't going to get 20, but on his day he knows where the net is. jury out on other two..

But it doesn't seem to matter who the opposition are - we merrily dish out freebies willy nilly.

If the pressure on defenders playing 352 is contributing to these errors and it's not just the players themselves, then the answer is glaringly obvious.

The problem is that we have employed players who, apparently, fit the mould. They are mostly small, lightweight, technically decent types.

How does Williams convert them into some sort of L1 powerhouse side?

That's not true though. Oxford got a couple of million for Roofe and similar for O'Dowda. We got £800,000, allegedly - for L1's top goalscorer.

3-5-2 is horse manure

Who now cannot get in the 1st XI of the team currently 12th in League One.

STFC fans hated 1 up front. Now they hate 3 at the back. Yet the modern game almost demands 3 in midfield because if you aren't trying to dominate possession, sooner or later you'll come up against someone who does. Unless you play like Leicester or Millwall last season - sit deep in two blocks of four and then hit teams on the break with lots of pace - and we wouldn't appear to have the players for that.

I suppose the 442 diamond will become the favourite formation of the fans. Although to have any width it demands the full backs pushing on and a midfield player dropping back into defence when we have possession...which brings us back to 352.

Our current thinking is "the best form of defence is possession". If we have the ball, teams can't score. Unfortunately unless we have 100% possession, I can't see how teams won't exploit our lack of defensive shape on the break and comparative lack of height/physicality at set pieces.

Having listened back to Williams post-match comments he seems to be saying we were beaten by a left wing cross and a good corner.  Anderson on the left beat two of our guys on the touchline, then was allowed to run into the box unchallenged and deliver the sort of cross we appear to be incapable of resulting in a tap-in and their guy got a free header at the near post from a corner!!  Their corners were good all night, as opposed to ours which appeared to be overhit all night - one even going straight out for a throw-in!!  The third goal does appear to come from a foul challenge on the half-way line but our defence bought Revell's dummy in the box to open up for another tap-in.  The players we have are not capable of playing this system that is imposed upon them unless the opposition stands off of us - and how many teams are going to do that?  To succeed we must have change - over to you Mr Power!

A brilliant post.

With Doughty, Murray and Kas' the squad has been built for it. It looks great on paper.

I'm not convinced it will be enough though, because while they will chip in with goals we need our strikers to start scoring.

I've given up on us ever addressing the defensive frailties of the system.

Losing 3-1 in a game that didn't feel like a 3-1 is a worrying sign. They didn't feel 2 goals better than us but were much more effective at both ends of the pitch. Ajose would have had a brace last night presented with the chances Obika had, too often a move broke down at Norris' feet around the box, although he did well when dropping deeper.
Disappointing.
I think some managerial experience is sorely needed. We saw the difference it made last year.

I posted this about last week about the 4 at the back 3 at back scenario


It's more about available personnel.... to get Nathan in and playing the classic libero role.

I don't see the formation and style of play as particularly a problem, but you do need the right sort of players for it. 3-5-2 should be an attacking formation, so you'll always be somewhat loose at the back but that should be compensted by being able to score more. Atm our defensive inability is not being bailed out at the other end, only 5 teams in the Div have scored less than us.

So, essentially by doing the basics and being professional.
3 teams in the last 3 home games have taken 3 different approaches to us and won comfortably. Bury solid banks of 4 and wait for us to do the rest. Rovers went for it with 3 on 3. Nton kept people behind the ball and hit us on the counter.

But when the sideways and backwards passing ultimately leads to a goal like obika's  on Saturday,some fans say we look like barcelona!

....granted it doesnt happen very often!

The main flaw in my opinion with 3 at the back is that in our case it means nathan has to play in the centre (i think) and unfortunately he's not very good at it

Can I be the first to say, don't start another for a while ;)

If it was happening more often than not, there wouldn't be a problem.

Last season we finished bottom half. This season after 10 games we are bottom half. Yet on both occasions the messages coming out of the club is we were/are aiming for much more.

If we are happy with bottom half, tell us. If we aren't as suggested, something has not been working for over a year now.

No real need for them to tell us we're looking at staying in Div 3, as it's plainly obvious that we're not making a push for higher.

The club will always try and make things look better than what they are....nothing wrong with that. The fan has to use his/her eyes and ears to get the real picture.

We're probably round about par based on wage bill.....but that in itself won't keep us up.

DV raised the question of is Power bothered about relegation?  We had the debate last season when I contended he wouldn't be as you can still polish turds and get fees for them, as Oxford showed with Roofe. In fact as it stands, we have no players becoming value added, so it might appear to him more likely we could achieve that in an easier grade of football.

We'd still get bullied out of it, probably more so, playing the way we do in L2 - see Exeter, Cheltnum, Macclesfield x 2 etc

And we would attract an even lower quality of player than we do now.

Sean Murray, Brophy and Vigs I think are probably are only potential salable assets. Obika would be if we could get him to sign a new deal (which won't happen).

Kasim is an odd one, lots of rumours of transfers which never seem to materialise.

It's not the quality of the players - it's the quality, or lack of, of the manager/coach.

We've got a good set of players.

We had a much better team in 95/96.

Formations don't win or lose games the players do.
Play the formation that best suites your squad. We clearly don't have the players for 352 so don't play it.
I'd suggest we need a back to basics, solid, two banks of four - 442 but we have no wingers!

Sean Murray, is a long long way from being a saleable asset....maybe if he can stay fit, cut out the errors for the rest of the season.

Brophy is a throwback footballer....needs a season of solid improvement. You never know, but a long way to go still.

Vigs....keepers don't tend to be too sellable. Wes was a very good keeper, but nobody wanted to buy him. Oddly Henry could be one who we might get a few bob for, especially if he gets a little run of games and does OK.

have we though? I'm not saying you are wrong. certainly in midfield we should be strong. but we've got unproven scorers up front and a demonstrably leaky defense.

I'm just curious how you know.

Arguably Furlong, Brophy, Barry and Boo could potentially play as makeshift wingers? Not out and out wingers per se but I reckon could do a decent job at this level.

We could play a diamond 442. 

Unfortunately for us Power got lucky first season because of his old mate Sherwood being in charge of an incredibly talented bunch of young prospects. The big problem is he believes this is proof the model works, now that he has no friends left to beg and borrow from we cannot attract that calibre of players anymore and instead we have to take a punt on players that have dropped down to Non League. This team is crying out for a couple of experienced old heads but Power is to pig headed to change his philosophy .
As others have said IF we do go down to take this approach in League 2 would be suicidal as life we be even tougher against long ball football and also even harder to attract young premier players. I really don't know where we are going with this ethos but unfortunately I think I can safely say it is not upwards.

Or maybe the current manager is just not good enough? The previous manager made it work rather well.

 O0

Ling got as many wins in 9 games as Williams has in 21-ish

Isn't one of the management's points that we acquire players to play 3-5-2 possession football, so trying to play a % game won't suit?

Listened to Pulis talking about his 1000 games in management...he was talking about how he turned West Brom round and kept them up....his secret...look at the players you've got and then think of a system of play to suit them. What would you do with what we've got and what formation/style would you use?

I've not seen enough of us to answer that Reg. Although I've never thought Thompson to be a centre half, he's a right back.

If you are losing games and on bad form, I'd always suggest going to back to basics. Trying to be solid. Something like a 442, 4411 or 451.

In some cases, it's an unambitious formation (particularly 451) but when you're off form not losing becomes more important than winning (as stupid at that sounds) get a couple of draws, even if they are shit boring 10 men behind the ball 0-0s and go from there. It's something to build on.

I don't think our style of play can change for the reasons reg posted.

but I'm baffled why it's so rigid in formation during the game, particularly like v Rovers when we went 3 on 3

Then I'd suggest as a football club we're fucked if we can't react to our results and change things.

Listening to Williams say that Norris is getting fitter week by week.
Fuck me, it is nearly October and the cunts aren't fit yet.
Jeeez

Haven't read thread.

We have had good teams and bad and before now I've never disliked the way we play before.  To me powers model has failed. He was a player so should know what makes a competitive team.  But all this about us not being able to compete physically is an awful thing.

You have to be able to win the battle to play your football. We have no leaders on the pitch and certainly not in the dug out. Williams is out of his depth for me.  He isn't a motivator.  Where is the passion in our play.  We are negative, we go backwards automatically.

Every ex player your hear on radio or TV says you should look to play forward first.  Doesn't mean long ball just means to look to be attacking.  We struggle to find any tempo to our play.  Our full backs can't defend. Our midfield has no bite to it and are very slow. And upfront we are struggling to score.

Power brings the players in but it's all about technically good. But with no physical strength or ability to tackle it seems.  Every fan wanted an experienced centre back.  The kids need guidance out there, someone to look to, someone to bollock them and get them doing what they should be.

We are getting beat by organised teams that are able to beat us up.  There was nothing amazing about Northampton or rovers who i thought were crap.  But we look like we will leak goals all the time.  Accidents waiting to happen and up front the strikers look toothless.

Fans want and expect to see commitment, to see high energy, to see players busting a gut for the cause.  Even when loosing we are still playing chuckle brothers football along our own back line, " to me, to you".

If what your doing doesn't work you have to change it.   While our club mantra is just keep doing that and hope for the best were fucked.

Or maybe the manager is just not good enough?

That's why I used the word 'Potential'

He's just not a manager and he's blinded by his belief that this is the way football should be played.

So do tactics and formations matter or not?

Anyway, we have individuals who are good enough for this level who just need a system that suits them and a manager who can get them to play as a team, it's becoming a common theme that watching us seems like watching 11 people who haven't even met before let alone trained together. It isn't rocket science and that's the most frustrating thing about it all.

because he doesn't know any other way and Power wants him to play that way.....

Power wanted Ling to play that way, which he did, and he made it work.

Fair enough....but I'm sure it won't have escaped Power's notice, that apart from Ajose, we got our fees on players in a relatively successful team.

It's obvious that this won't be a successful team, unless like me you regard staying up as success, and it's debatable if we'll manage that.

In theory it should be a bit easier to build a successful side in Div 4...the last time we were there we conceded 8 goals at the CG in a season, we've now managed 7 in 10 days.

It worked (almost) under Cooper as well, the issue clearly isn't inherently the system - we'd be equally shit if we started hoofing it forward

I think fitness is an issue to be honest. The amount of injuries we've had since the start of last season is ridiculous, and whilst some are bad luck (ie, Doughty having complications with appendicitis) the amount of muscles going suggests they aren't fit enough. We can't play twice a week.

Our style would suit a high pressing game (this is what Ling did) but we don't have the legs to do it.

 It seems the general consensus is that it's time for Luke to go....so who to come in. Power obviously won't employ a proper old skool boss, so it cuts down the field.

Paul Trollope should be available soon, and as far as I know is still Highworth based, so handy for the new training ground.

Seems happy enough just to do the coaching and leave recruitment to the DoF.....could probably work with Luke if he wants to stay on in his previous role.

We had a shit load of goals and some genuine quality in that team which allowed us to score more than we concede. Without these goals our defensive frailties are a major issue and as we aren't really scoring it puts even more pressure on an already questionable back line. If you aren't scoring you need to be solid at the back, if you aren't scoring and are woeful at the back then you are in big trouble. I don't see where we are going to magically find goals so the only option is to make us more solid at the back and go back to basics.

Tim Sherwood would be an obvious choice given how close he is to Power - that would allow Williams to go back to polishing those lower league turds whilst the manager would be in control of tactics etc.

Power has said several times that Sherwood is not interested in managing us and he also stated there is no way we could afford to pay what he wants.

Whether this is spiel or genuine we will find out, but Sherwood was not even remotely interested when Ling left but job offers have not been thick on the ground for Sherwood so he may be temped even in a caretaker role allowing Williams to get back to coaching.

I do think we badly need work on our fitness though, work is definately needed.

Somehow just think Sherwood thinks he can do better than us....he's watched us a fair bit this season, probably enough to put off potential managers who aren't desperate.

No thanks to Tim Sherwood.

Sorry, the point re: formation got a bit lost.

Yes, the formation matters relative to the players.

My first post was made after someone said (and I paraphrase) it isn't the formation we won the league in 95/96 with 352.

Well, because we won the league 20 years ago with 352 in no way means we should be able to win this league again just by playing 352. It isn't rock, paper, scissors...352 beats 442 beats 433 beats 352...in that aspect the formation doesn't win you games.

Add the formation in with the players and you have to find a solution that suites everyone. A formation for the players we have. Similarly XI playing 352 and losing won't automatically win if we switch to 442.

It would appear we don't have the players for 352, so what do we have the players for? That's up to the manager to work out (or it should be)

Changing formation won't automatically instantly change our results but then playing the same formation that isn't work certainly won't change the results!

I wonder whether Power doesn't like the high press as he sees it as rudimentary? 

Liverpool do it to huge effect, as do Spurs.  Liverpool for example have the highest number of passes, shots and tackles, I think was the stat at the weekend, and are second in most other aspects of the game in the Prem.  Barcelona have hunted in packs for years and they're the pinnacle in Power's eyes one would assume.

Something doesn't add up with regards to this in my opinion.

He didn't seem to mind it when Ling was here.

But we've acquired the players to play a possession based 3-5-2 or 3-5-1-1.

However, we are proper fucked at the back, the loss of JSW, who was starting to make a bit of progress and now Jones, has left a lot on Branco's plate and he's not fully fit yet, after summer op and pre-season injury, so he's struggling. Last season we could have gone out and got an El-Abd for 3 months, this season we can't, so it's going to be difficult up to January, whoever takes charge.

That's a large assumption and even if right, probably irrelevant. Williams will go when Power says so, not any notional consensus you may think has been arrived at.
If we are to get a new manager, I'd hope that proximity to Highworth isn't going to be high on the list of recruitment criteria, or we will seriously limit our options!

...and our options will include fatbury

I'm talking about a consensus on here. It's pretty much the case once you've lost the fans your days are numbered....even Flasher sees the need for change, so let's debate it.

Power's previous appointments have been in house, or someone with Town connections....PT sort of fits both bills, but comes with a wealth of coaching experience including a recent 3rd/4th place finish at the Euros. It's also more likely he could return to a previous coaching gig with Hughton or similar and trouser 5 times what he'll get for taking our job.

You see, put like that it becomes a more compelling case ... :)

I think he knows the players aren't fit enough and the extra workload means they are getting injured.

Having watched the highlights only, so going off 9 mins rather than 90, we've pummelled them but can't defend.

There's nothing wrong with the shape. Our squad is built to play 352. There's everything wrong with individual quality at either end of the pitch.

Also, it's weird that everyone says they're bored, but also that they want us to play 451, defend with 10 men and get some 0-0 draws....

I think a high press is pretty tricky to do against very direct teams (especially ones who are ahead). For example, Rovers were playing direct from the 'keeper. How do you press that?

That said, I'm not sure Delfonso or Norris would suit it. Nor Obika really. They set the press.

Tough to argue with that - and I was there. The highlights for the goal on Twitter shows the utter mess they were in 10 players in a line, giving Murray plenty of time to get a shot away.

That is what our approach play can do - as you say the problem is in two boxes - and that is less of a systemic error than a personnel one.

Just saw the highlights. We could have scored 4 or 5 and their 3rd goal is definitely a foul on Goddard.

The rest has been said, we need to defend better and spent a good day or two working on sticking the ball in the net.

Our next home game is v Bolton and seems to be a 1:00 pm ko, is it a Sky game, as it's another international break?

What's Ian Culverhouse up to now a days?

Was part of Paul Lamberts team at Colchester, Norwich and Villa for a bit. Got sacked and Lambert has looked pretty shite without him.
Has Town connections.

To allow everyone to get home in time for the delights of England v Malta.

I'm not sure anyone's said that last bit?
I've suggested going back to basics to be more solid and come out of this horrible run of form...but I've also never bought into this bollocks about entertainment.

Results > Entertainmemt

If we have to be boring as fuck to get results, then I'd gladly take that.

New forum slogan for you:

Always gets results

 ;)

Assistant at Dagenham & Redbridge.

David Kerslake also springs to mind, assistant at Gillingham.

Daggers top of the National League as well!

Really....at least unlike last time when we lost 3 players, this time 2 of them are out long term injured, and most seem to think Yaser should be left out anyway.

The irony of last night is that we had as many shots on target in about 10 seconds as they did in 90 mins.

The difference sums up why we lost.

They put 3 of their 4 shots on target into the net.
And the sequence where we had four shots in those 10 seconds, for every one of them one of their players threw himself in front of the ball to stop it going in.

As much as he is dull as ditchwater to listen to Williams is right, the commitment that Northampton showed in either box put us to shame, the bits in between (which doesn't matter as much) we were much better.

I know which I'd prefer, and which will help us win some games

Looking at the Shrews forum....Saturday should be a classic, they reckon if they lose Mellon goes, I reckon if we lose Williams goes. 

They're losing fans as the football is "boring"  They suffer from disciplinary problems and expect red cards. The difference to us, is they don't concede pens but rather get them and then miss, 6 of the last 7 including Tuesday, which could have seen a win v 10 man Posh.

The presence of Adam El-Abd should spice it up on the potential card battle.

They've got a pretty bad home record, we've got a pretty bad away record...

It's an STFC crapoff

I was thinking about the last time we played Bolton at the CG.....and decided it may have been as far back as the 99 game.

On checking it proved so....we were terrible that day 4-0 down by half time, and clearly on our way to Div 3, no doubt. Interestingly Bolton had Eidur Gudjohnson playing for them....possibly the only Barca treble winning player to grace the CG, but less there to watch than Tuesday.

I doubt a repeat, we're not that bad, and they're probably not that good.

I've a fairly healthy dislike for them following on from the LC semi final second leg defeat in 1995.
A piss taking stadium announcer as we were waiting to leave the ground, coupled with obnoxious git John McGinlay.
Hopefully a case of what goes around comes around on the 8th.

And don't forget the 7-0 a few years after that...

Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaannnnker, wanker John...