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Jayo's apparent right to claim Irish citizenship got me thinking about my own nationality. Both my parents are English and I consider myself also English. However..... I was born in Berlin. My birth was registered with the British consulate and I have a British Birth Certificate. All of this means I'm British, with British citizenship, but am I English?

No.

Yes, that's like saying i'm a Reading fan for being born there. I'm not am I?

Well that's cleared that up then....

Debatable. I suppose 'English' could be cultural as well as geographical.

I'm not sure English is a legal Nationality is it?

No, fuck off back to your own country  :-[

I've known people to argue that they're not British, but (insert home nation).

FWIW, I've never understood the 'I'm not British, I'm English' thing.

I just see myself as British.

I see myself as both.

Oh, this does not apply to Andy Murray.

If he wins, he's British. If he loses, he's Scottish.

Obviously.

Murrays a cunt first and foremost.

Ok ok..

If he wins, he's a British cunt.

If he loses, he's a Scottish cunt.

Yep whichever suits him.

No Jock or Taff sees themselves as British first.

It's why there is a culture for Scotland, Ireland and Wales but absolutely fuck all for England.

There's something wrong with the English in despising any notion of nationhood.

I have to say, when England are in a major tournament (like the Euro's, obviously) they're my first choice.

Aside from that I always want the other home nations to do well. I hear/read other people say 'would they want us to do well?'.. my answer to that is 'I couldn't give less of a fuck whether they do or not'... I do and that's it.

Same as club football, I always want the home nation teams to do well over the foreign teams. For me, the perfect Champions League final would include 2 British teams.

Well I revel in my Englishness. I can go back 4 to 5 generations and all born in England. After that records for the poor are difficult to follow, if not impossible. Of course this is only a paper chase as its often said "its a very clever child who knows his/her own father"
most of the people I know struggle to go back as far as their grandparents before foreign blood rears its ugly head. Every chancer who wanted to try his/her luck headed to England, nobody headed to Scotland or Wales, what would of been the point.

I hope I've interpreted this wrong, but what a vile sentiment. What's your cut off point for qualifying as English? Just curious as I hate to break it to you, but, someone, somewhere down the line in your family, was probably foreign at some point. We've had a few invasions over the years...

FWIW I consider myself British/English. Grandfather was Irish although I've never felt much connection.

I'm European,union or no fucking union!

You really are a complete fucking cunt

(https://media.giphy.com/media/glmRyiSI3v5E4/giphy.gif)

Blimey!

Do you have a pitbull aswell?

You seem to be missing the part of the brain that processes irony..

Yep, you've nailed my family. Bunch of chancers the lot of us. Great-grandad brought here as a baby by his mother, Baltic Jews both, fleeing the Czarist pogroms of the early 20th century. Only his mum was available to bring him over as his Dad was murdered by an anti-immigrant mob, stirred up by the inept Czarist government, who sought to deflect blame for their ill-government on the popular scapegoats of the time, the Jews. "Chancers" that they were, they sought refuge in England, as a later generation of Jews did in the 1930s from a similar persecution, because England had a reputation for tolerance.

My Grandad was raised a proud Englishman, fought for the RAF in the war and afterwards worked hard to build a business that employed a few dozen local lads, met a Manx lass and with her raised a family who were raised to be proud of their roots, Jewish, Manx and mainly English. Mainly because of my Grandad and Grandma's belief in the inherent civilisation of English values. You can argue the toss over whether they were right or wrong about that, but an essential belief in tolerance was core to what they thought Englishness represented and what they drilled into their children and their children drilled into us, the 3rd generation born from "chancers". I'll leave it to the forum to decide which tradition better represents the English values we're so proud of.

So what you mean to say is: you should head back to where your family came from, yeah?....

I only started thinking of myself as British when we moved to Wales. Before that I was English.

National identity is about far more than where you were born. If you've lived in France for 30 years and you identify with the culture to the point you consider yourself French, fair enough. After all, you've got no control over where you're born. You have got control over where you integrate and chose to identify with.

I'm not saying if you want to be Japanese or whatever all you need to do is go and live in Tokyo for a few weeks, but the old "Jesus was born in a stable, doesn't make him a donkey" is still true.

I'm not British I'm european

Incidently, Thomas Dossevi was born in a stable, wasn't he?

There's a few on here Turning Japanese - if you're old enough to remember The Vapors song and its meaning!

I really think so

I'm Saxon.

German then?

Yes, lower Saxony

I'm English born and bred, but I'm British Isles by ancestory (Scottish and possibly Welsh), with some Irish in the mix.

Not really sure, being born on a specific piece of land is a fluke you have no say in. I'm not really a fan of Nationalism and "I'm five eights Irish" and to me, there's better ways you can identify yourself than "I'm English". I tend to say that I'm from England more than anything.

Having said that I have always and probably will always support England / Britain in sporting events.

Andy Murray is a grade A cunt!
When he wins he is Scottish,  when he loses be it's British.

I know people who claim to be British or British English but never just English,  the same however can't be said for the Welsh or Scottish as  they both drop British like a bit potato. 
I am English but my family are all from Northern Ireland,  a nation who are proudly loyal to be British depending on religious beliefs and location. 

Your spot on,  but the issue with wanting a national holiday for St George allows certain groups  to class you as a right wing racist.  If England Wales and N Ireland  decided to go it alone and ditch Scotland we the English  again would be hated by those North of the border even more so than now.  If Scotland get the opportunity again to request independence the whole of the UK should get the vote.

So if you go on holiday to say India,  and you meet a group on an excursion the topic comes round to nationality,  you say your European?  :Ride On Fatbury's Lovestick:

The irony of a patron saint of possibly Turkish Arab or Syrian descent is worth a small inward chuckle.

Nice analogy but i dont think it will ever happen.

I don't disbelieve you,  far from it could be viewed as sitting in the fence but  I am picturing a group of foreign holiday makers bemused,  wondering where the fuck  is that  :clap:
I'm easily pleased

Indeed,  and the same could be said for  St Andrew as he is also that of a number of nations and a galilean fisherman

Also St Patrick was born in England.

I do find it ironic when the Scots say about St George being Turkish when the patron Saint of Scotland was Israeli.

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That would guarantee their independence. Don't understand why the Scottish fishwife hasn't considered it.

Indeed  :please:

I had to look up what a 'fishwife' was.

Is there a male equivalent?

At a hunch, fishhusband

The fishhusband from Uphusband. (special geog reference for Ardiles)