Thetownend.com

OK, so I might as well start another one of these – my thread starting record so far this season is P3 W2 D1 L0 F9 A4 Pts7 ... quite respectable really, a bit like Luke Williams' managerial record.

We’ve actually had a few memorable encounters with Wigan over the years when you think about it…
1987…2-0 down away at the old Springfield Park with 20 minutes to go in the 1st leg of the Play Off semi-finals and we come back to win 3-2 and eventually end up beating Gillingham at Selhurst Park on a never-to-be-forgotten night to get promoted to what would now be the Championship.

2003…we were having a rare ‘nothing’ season and Wigan were 20 odd games undefeated on their way to promotion to the the Premier League via The Championship (or whatever it was called then)  Danny Invincibile had possibly his best game ever and certainly his best game for us as we won a barn stormer 2-1 in one of the very few highlights of the 02/03 season.

2012…FA Cup 3rd Round L2 Town 2 Premier League Wigan 1 – Football fans expectations can be ridiculously and unreasonably high at times and I’m no exception. I fully expected us to win this one but amazingly, win we did. An all too rare Cup run by recent standards which was certainly a lot more fun than losing to Histon…or Cheltenham…or Rochdale…or…etc…etc

My prediction – we win out in a ‘five goal thriller’…3-2 Ajose, Doughty, Robert.

Really tough game, they've not lost since the 12th December and look pretty likely to get one of the two auto spots.

We're unbeaten in 7 and playing well at present so reckon it'll be 1-1.

Hoping to get to the in laws over in the west of Ireland in time for kick off.

Tough game and I fear Wigan might be too good. Is Will Grigg away with Norn Iron?

Grigg didn't play v Wales last night. Neither is he listed as unused sub so presume will be playing for Wigan today

fear our unbeaten run may come to an end. grigg worries me after the mauling we received from MK last year.

best we can hope for is a 0 0 no score bore

1-3.

They are unbeaten in 16 games in the league winning 9 of those.

We are unbeaten in 7 winning 4.

I think a 0-0 draw in front of 8,124 and in that total 984 pie eaters there.

You'll need to increase that prediction.  Apparently, they had sold 1200 tickets a week or so ago.  Wigan have laid on free coach transport for them.   So there's likely to be pie shortage in the Arkells Stand today.

I can't see anything other than a defeat today.  Probably 1-3.  :(

I didn't even realise we were playing this evening, is it on telly then? Can see us losing 1-2 with around 900 of the humble pie eaters rolling up.

Interesting fact about Wigan from my time working there, all of the women have dark hair you never see a naturally blonde Wigan lass.....

Edit: note of the above I am upping attendance production to 1289 Wiganners

If you can't make it, it's live on Sky at 5-30.

Interesting, even when in the Premier League when they came down they only brought about 800 to 1,000, they have never travelled in numbers and only took 1,900 to Crewe which is only 40 miles.

Still free coach travel may add to it I guess.

Everything will go our way.

They'll have a man sent off early and a pen to us.

5-0

I'm a bit 'meh' about today's game. I don't fear a defeat but equally don't think we'll win, so the natural conclusion to make is we'll draw.  :doh:

I'm going for an uninspired 0-0, which will bore the national TV audience.

I can see any kind of result in this game.

Although I fear if we lose it will be a heavy defeat.

That said, the team has shown resilience over the last couple of months so think we will get a draw in this one

We're not going down and we're in with an outside sniff of the playoffs, so on that basis we should just fucking go for it today.

Sadly Grigg is not in the Ulster squad. 

It's good that we're playing today rather than tomorrow, as it looks a typical wet and windy for Sat, like most home games of late.

Hope our lads go out and express themselves....

I concur, one notch up from how we played last weekend at Coventry, just need Beaker to put on his shooting boots, put on a show for the cameras.

Swindon to win after Wigan leading at HT, 33-1 on Ladbrokes. Seems too generous going on fight-backs in recent weeks.

Another last second winner would be sweet after our visit to the DW in October

Are you saying we are going to score 33 unanswered goals in the second half ?

I've read through the quoted post and I can't see how you would come to that conclusion 8)  Anyway, I've had a fiver on it.

I'll be watching the game in The Keg bar in Munich, probably just me and the bar staff until people trickle in to watch the Internationals starting later.

No Vigs or Obika

Town starting XI: Belford, Sendles-White, Thompson N (C), Turnbull, Barry, Rodgers, Doughty, Thompson L, Ormonde-Ottewill, Hylton, ajose

Subs: Henry, Branco, Brophy, Traore, Robert, Iandolo, Cooke #STFC

Obika done hamstirng

Ah bloody hell hylton.

Surprised he didn't play Roberts rather than Hylton.

We will miss the pace and power of Obika today.

Can anybody suggest a streaming site for this? The usual ones here seem to be blocked/closed!

Download Kodi and install the SportsDevil add on.

Not confident in Belford, even though he did ok last week.

But Obika is a bigger loss, Hylton can't do the things Beeks does.

Would be happy with a point

"No stadium in the four divisions has seen more goals than the County Ground." Surprised me.

Any other streaming suggestions? Kodi took ages to install and is now "not responding"!

Fucking miles offside

http://hdfree.tv/

Or not... from a different angle.

You're a star woolster! Thanks :)

your welcome, although its not pretty to watch at the moment

Nath appears to be our main attacking outlet

We need to switch to a 442 diamond and get Robert and/or Traore on ASAP.

Jeez is there more of this back passing wankery than in the past few games ?
Or am I imagining it ?

We need some movement from the midfield, when we have the ball they are all stood still waiting for the ball instead of moving to create space

I'd bring on Traore, we need some energy

With the exception of L Thompson, the midfield is looking slow and lethargic.

Well this has been fucking dire so far..

That was awful, made worse only by this pub turning on music at an annoying volune

Turgid. If Hylton is a footballer on that evidence, I should be a fucking pole dancer.

Very poor so far, why is Belford kicking it long so often?

Hylton and Rodgers are not good enough. Get Iandolo and Robert on for them 2nd half.

We can still get something from this Wigan aren't that good but they are much better than Coventry last week.

Poor all round but Anton fucking Rodgers just why? He doesn't even look when he passes it and is a complete ghost when we are out of possession. I know some see him as the scapegoat but offers absolutely nothing.
Wigan have got us sussed let Belford have the ball, let him kick long and they'll win back possession every time. As expected Obika is a huge loss, Hylton runs around a bit but isn't a goal threat!

Well that was poor. Hylton might as well not be there. Doughty ineffective out wide. No room in midfield which Wigan have crowded out. Since we have no cf on the bench (other than Cooke who was ineffective at Glos City) I think we need to bring on another midfielder. Maybe this Ialando kid in the left & Doughty in the middle with Hylton making way.

Rodgers as a footballer was summed up by his piss poor pass and follow up two footed 'tackle' after 10 minutes

Think you have to give Wigan some credit for holding a high defensive line to pressure our outlets. They're not that pretty, but they're effective.

Physically inferior all over the park. Hylton hasn't had a kick. Don't mind him as an Ajose back up but the two of them clearly doesn't work. At least Cooke has some physicality about him. Rodgers has been gash and should have been booked in the 7th minute.

Barry's getting roasted defensively but other than that we're not that far away from them.... Just have nothing going forward without Obika.

Ultimately we're up against a very physical, experienced and well-resourced side, so anything other than our first choice XI was going to struggle.

Cotterill is still a cunt then...

He was shit in "Fresh Fields" as well.
Cravat wearing twat.

Williams out.

Belford is awful.

Why the fuck did they not close Power down.

Great goal, but shouldn't be allowed to score from there.

I don't know what more he supposed to do with that?  There aren't many keepers that would have got near it.

Capitulated.

Given them 2 goals. Embarrassing.

Pathetic.

It was coming on that first half display though

Three.

Sorry, 3.

Men against boys.

What an absolute load of shite.  Fallen apart on tv again.

fucking wankers that is all

This could get (even more) embarrassing.

Backup players aren't good enough. No cover for Obika, Belford isn't a football league keeper and powder puff at the back.

Gordon Banks would have caught it ,in one hand.

I know you're upset but what's Belford done wrong?

I have to say that was pathetic management not to change the team ASAP after goal 2 if not before.

And he still hasn't brought on a creative midfielder eg Robert !

Time fo plan B.
For fuck sake, get it forward .

I sense the start of a meltdown...

Belford, Rodgers and Williams out...

Stop those lips wobbling people.

Belford criticisms are ignorance. He could've had more arms than Ganesh and not been able to fo anything about the last 3 goals.

He just clearly isn't good enough. Punches everything, his distribution has been poor and I would say he's overweight which impacts on his agility. I just don't think he looks good enough whenever i have seen him play, it's not specific to tonight.

That said its just an all round horror show tonight!

Let's all forget the last 3 months and slag every member of the team off. Bunch of cunts.

In all seriousness, we're playing terribly and without 2-3 key players against a very good side. Result is inevitable. This has nothing to do with style, or passing it backwards, or Belford, or Williams. This has everything to do with us, as team, have a fucking stinker.

Write this one off, folks. Wigan are far superior, it happens.

Williams' first major test as a manager, getting them to get over it.

No shit. 4 0 humiliation at home. If supporters really care? Their should be stick. People like me who never baught into this namby pamby pointless passing shit are just sat here incredulous.

Is it me, or are our floodlights worse than they were before?  Especially in the TE/Ark corner...

Well I'd say that's more prejudice than evidence, based on today.

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v202/pixystyk02/Reaction%20Gifs/tumblr_mayutc30y41rd3tx8o1_400.gif)

Ah, I'm not having a meltdown so I don't care.  Still a better performance than watching a Malpas team..

Maybe but his distribution has been awful and that can't be argued with. On the flip side I think Vigs will be a very good keeper and never understood why people think Belford is better.

I really hope that next season we're not one of the live games over Easter.  Second year on the trot we've been hammered.

Professional football hasn't worked out for Jermaine Hylton has it? Injuries etc.

I think his distribution has been down to Wigan shutting off his options to pass it out at the back.  I agree with you that Vigs is better, but I don't think you can blame him for any of the goals today..  He is a suitable No.2

I think the absence of any sensible, coherent midfield  moving forwards strategy is what concerns me.

I don't see any evidence of a thought out set of plans for the other side of the halfway line !

Belford did exactly the same last week, kicked it long too often and Coventry didn't close him down hardly at all, I think his overall distribution is very poor, he does punch too much but could do little with at least 2 of the goals today, hes an adequate backup but not ready for the first team yet IMO.

Well taken goal by Ajose.

Yay, a goal.

Well taken by Ajose. Great ball from Doughty.

We've just said the same.  It's a shame because he looked so promising when he first played.  Does throw into question our lack of striking options though,  If Ajose suddenly got injured as well, we'd be up shit street.

So who else wud u play in goal today - Nate dog ??!!

Jeez, some of you people...

He's not playing..

Contender for save of the season that jacka effort btw

Silly challenge Nathan.

Silly, silly challenge. Needless red card.

Oh what a suprise.
NT straight red.

Those watching on tv, was that a sending off?  Looked like a good challenge that won the ball from where we are.

Nathan is an idiot.

Oh, Nathan.

Missed the ball completely, took McCann's ankle with his studs up.

No complaints, straight red every time.

Hes a frecin liabilty.

Definite red on tv

Definite red.

Don't know where you are sat but looked a red card from the DRS

Well, in addition to completely and utterly forgetting how to defend for 10 minutes, I think we were overpowered physically today. Having Obika and Branco on the pitch might have helped out cause. Not that Branco would necessarily have helped with the defence losing the plot though.

That game will live short in the memory for me.

Would have been useful to have someone over 5ft 2 " in the attacking part of the pitch. Ranger anyone?

And that's that.

Of all the games to go and do that, they do it when I am able to watch.

We'll focus on our short comings, but Wigan were way better than us. Easy for them.

Whoever said men against boys summed it up.

Nathan (who was probably our best player) getting a straight red just rubbing salt into the wounds.

Same old,injured or on a ban.

Signature move thread.

We must have had a strange angle in the Arkells for the Nathan foul!

Wigan are the best team I've seen at the County Groind this season.  Stronger and more hardworking from the off.  Our lightweightness really showed tonight.

Nath's tackle that led to our goal and then his red card perfectly illustrated both sides of his game

When this was first moved to a 17:30 Kick Off, I wondered whether to change my night shift, or whether to get a shift swap.

I did neither, and recorded the game instead.

It would appear as though I still made the wrong decision.

This. Rodgers certainly showed his crapness tonight when pressurised. Unfortunately the game was over by the time Traore came on. With the lack of central defenders on Monday, Traore could be partnering Turnbull at the back.

Good to see most stay on to nearly the end, and the Wigan fans were certainly quiet...but they went home with the 3 points.

There's a lot being said about Rodgers crapness, but I think that we offered nothing all over the park.

Hylton was abysmal and not in the game. No pace (which he seemed to have when he arrived), no touch and no positional sense. Please only play him if Ajose is injured in the future.

Ajose had a good freekick and took his goal well. He had noone to win the ball for him and provide anything for him to feed off.

Doughty was marked out of the game in the first half. Came into it a little bit towards the end when he was moved inside.

Rodgers was poor. Flicks and studs up was all I saw.

Was there anyone else in midfield? Didn't see them do much. Most anonymous I've ever seen Louis Thompson. That's not the player we had last year.

Turnbull has the touch of a rapist.

Sendles-White did well in the first half I thought.

Barry was there for the taking in the first half but wasn't fully exploited.

Brophy didn't impress me when he came on. Traore did though. Couldn't do everything on his own, but I liked the look of him.

Robert looked slow and was trying to run through everyone.

Belford had no chance for the 4 goals. Poor marking and no closing down did for him. However, he didn't seem to be able to find any of our players with his passes.

Nathan, Nathan, Nathan! What a silly, silly challenge!

Ormond-Ottewill. Hmmm? Offered little going forward and struggled defensively.

Bottom line is we couldn't keep the ball or string passes together. We had no one up front as an outlet or who could hold the ball up. Up until the goal we looked under no real pressure of conceeding. It looked as if it was a tight game that someone would win 1-0. We looked sluggish after the break and then frightened after going 2-0 down. I think the only reason that we didn't conceed more was because Wigan tired a little and held back.

Awful performance. Showed that we are a lower to mid-table team at best.  Would have been interesting to see what difference Obika would have made as an outlet.

I was dismayed that Traore did not start, and liability Rodgers did. We might have put up a better show in midfield with him there.  

Williams' first major test as a manager, was making sure we get to 52 points, that is more or less in the bag. We needed to go out today, play without fear and really get about Wigan.  We just didn't....still young lads etc, so it's a learning curve. 

Super Jon is going to be a big miss.

Calmed down a bit now, but that was a poor performance against a strong side - we never attempted really to match them.  Too many players idling around allowing Wigan to seize control all over the pitch.  No pace and no real cohesion and unable to string three passes together - at least to a player in a red shirt!  That said, Wigan were a real team who came out determined not to slip up against us but once our soft underbelly of a defence was found out in the first half for their first goal the writing was on the wall.  Obika was a real big miss, if he is out for a few games we are going to miss him more than you can imagine.  Think I would have given Cooke a run out when he took Hylton off - at least he has a physical presence.  Will revert to a 4-4-2 for Scunny but I fear for us!!

Who will be the 2nd striker in that formation though?

Possibly Michael Smith or Jordan Stewart but as both are out on loan maybe Robert?

Think you've got to stick with Hylton....it's tough for the lad, he probably needs a run of games to have any chance of getting up to speed.

Maybe it's time to abandon the 3 at the back with NT as a sweeper and move him to right back.

He does a lot of the flashy stuff well, the bringing the ball out and the surging runs but we still leak goals. NT gets caught out too much as the last man and how many red cards has he picked up as Sweeper?

I wonder if Lingy had NT fit under his management if he would have put him to right back. As RB  he could still have influence going forward and push on either overlapping or coming into the middle.

I don't think it will happen as Williams is too wedded to 3-5-2 but maybe it's time for a change and Brad Barry might benefit from a rest.

Was hugely impressed with Wigan - they were powerful, quick to close us down and pretty clinical. That said we made the job very easy for them, didn't move the ball quick enough and gifted the ball to them for most of their goals.

We're a way off being good enough, but got to stick at it. Dont quite know how Wigan aren't top?!

Fair play to the Town End who kept chanting when 4-0 down, maybe saved it from a mauling

HIM!

They weren't very good, we were just abysmal from the minute the goal went in. It wasn't poor defending, there was NO defending.

The Thompsons were our only credit, and I can't blame Belford for anything. Other than that it was "one of those days" where messi could have come on and only hoof it at the keeper.
 
Fans were great, pretty decent officials, and Wigan fans seem like a good bunch.
On to the next one. We're not going up and we're not going down. Let's hope there are some lessons learnt.

This is interesting. Ajose rarely misses the target with a shot.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/league-one/top-scorers

What the scandanavian heavy metal guy? Guess he'll be better than Hylton anyway.

At last someone has seen the same game as me. We made Wigan look good, this must of been their easiest win of the season.

Problem is though Reg we have no physical presence in the final third without the Beak, maybe start Hylton and see what happens but give Cooke a run out if things haven't worked out - he will give us some physicality even if a bit raw!

I know. No idea if Cooke is up to it, as haven't seen him play since his couple of cameos almost a year back, he didn't seem to do much in his loan spells.

The main problem is if we can't play out from the back, because the opposition press, and our defenders aren't prepared to take the risk, then the hoof up to SJO does provide a bit of an outlet.

No point doing it if Hylton and Ajose are up there, so needs a rethink.

I feel that if Mr Power is being truthful in wishing to get us to the championship he should look at that result today and after analysis come to the conclusion that to be successful we need more physical presence on the pitch - look at the way our players were brushed off the ball today - and make that a priority for next season.

You can have big blokes who are pussies and little-uns who are terriers.

Let's face it Wigan will win the league and have a wage bill about x5 ours, so it's hardly surprising they were significantly better than us.

Yeah that little fucker Perkins for one. I've seen us play against him about 10 times, and he always plays well.

I hope we haven't got an owner so mental he's going to look at one game we lost (to a team 2nd in the league) that it's going to change his entire outlook, but admittedly we did miss Beaks today.

I get your point totally, but look at Ritchie - he was great in the air, and he's the same height as me i think!
There was far more going wrong today than the absence of Jon's physicality. I mean if you can't pass the ball to each other and the midfield disappears you could have had Arnie up front, if the ball never gets to him...

Couldn't argue with that Reg, their no 4 was small in stature but big in heart - sort of player we could do with.
 

Just feel he has got to add a bit more physical presence to be a successful side - our players prefer to jump out of the way with one or two exceptions - hope that's not a Rodgers influence!

We've been doing quite well since certain changes have been implemented.

I think it would be unwise to base our strategy on observations of one match. They were bigger, better, stronger than us but that's not usually the case in this league. Sometimes you just have to play a team that is better than you are and if you lose, it's not necessarily your strategy that's to blame.

Ah, Ells beat me to it.

That number 5 Daniels is some unit, absolutely rapid too

EDIT: Just seen Wigan fans really don't rate him.. Find that surprising, surely someone that size adds stability to most defences

I know who they reminded me of: Preston. Just crushed us with power, hard work and organisation. Not sure our current model has a response to that sort of team.

I didn't think they were that good going forward, our awful defending made them look better than they were in that regard. A couple of times in the 1st half our defenders just left it for others to deal with in our own penalty area.

It's easy to see how they've gone for so long without a defeat though.

They're not quite as dirty and hoofy as Preston, but I see where you're coming from. Overall they were simply better than us, and it's so frustrating to see us lacking an answer to teams like that. I do think Obika would have made a difference, simply in relieving the pressure on the backline by providing an outlet.

That said, it's the first defeat in 8 games. Context.

Yeah you are right. Didnt dawn on me until you said that. Hunt in packs then break forward at speed.

If a promotion push next year is planned then we have got some serious rebuilding. If Doughty, Louis and Turnbull go back we need to replace them and we will loose Kasim.

I am not sure BOO and Barry are the answer at full back but we could go NT at RB so need another left back option. It's getting the right mix in midfield that will be key. Traore and Rodgers are too similar and we need some more dynamism and quality. Time for Power to find the next Luongo.

I don't think anyone is giving Wigan enough credit in this thread. We were well beaten by a much better side. Hardly surprising given the disparity in resources.

"Yeah that little fucker Perkins for one. I've seen us play against him about 10 times, and he always plays well."

Youth teamer Tom Smith reminds me a little of him. Where has he disappeared to?

Not seen shambles that was their third goal back yet. Pretty sure i don't want to

If you read back through some have said that they were better. It takes a few hours to get a clear head after that mauling!

This. When will we learn that tippy tappy football doesnt get you out of this league? Being hard working, organised and having a physical presence at the back for set pieces does.

Great through ball from Doughty for Ajose goal but apart from a dinky little shot in the first half that was pretty much all he did. Rodgers gets all the criticism but for me Doughty has pretty much strolled through his last 3 or 4 games. Last minute equaliser v Millwall disguised a pretty sub standard display against them too. Surely breaking into a sweat every now again isn't beneath him. Hylton may have his limitations but at least he does put some effort in.

Any style of football can work if you're fucking good at it. The game is about scoring more goals than the opposition, how you get there is irrelevant.

If you don't like the "tippy tappy" (?) that's your prerogative but it's not wrong because you don't like it. It's the style we play because it suits us.

Case in point: us playing any kind of long ball today without Obika. Utterly pointless.

I don't think there's any danger of that whatsoever Ells.

However (taking everything at face value), whilst I like Power and his overall strategy for the Club and where the Club is going at this point, I would also like to think that he is a pretty down-to-earth, pragmatic kind of person who, whilst being able to see that his strategy has worked pretty damned well so far, there is at the same time, quite a bit of room for improvement. I don't want to see us getting too bogged down by 'The Model'.

Things I would like to see next season/going forward (sorry for the horrible corporate speak)

Less reliance on loan signings. Yes, we've had success with this but let's get the balance right - we've been top heavy and have been over-reliant on loan signings the last couple of seasons. This needs to be redressed.

We don't have to piss about with the ball all the fucking time at the back. If we occasionally hoof the ball into Row Z it's not going to compromise our principals. Let's be sensible.

Let's beef up the squad in physical terms just a little bit in the summer. The game today looked like a school game where there was a breakdown in communication when arranging the fixture and your U13's end up playing the other school's U15's. As Alan Hansen once said, "You don't win anything with midgets'" or something like that...

Would it really do any harm to get a couple of seasoned 'old pro's' to go along with the young lads - I'm pretty sure it wouldn't.

Just a little bit more directness in our play at certain times. Corners for example - we are positively anaemic in this respect. All of this short corner nonsense - please, enough already - we've been utterly pathetic in this area for at least 2 years now. It's high time this was addressed.

'The Model' has served us pretty well for 2 or 3 seasons now but to me, it's screamingly obvious that it needs some tweaking (not too much) for the Club to progress.

Over to you Lee...

Very well said, I agree with all that - and what I don't quite get - is that given our inability to mix it, to cope physically with the Franchise and Preston, is what cost us last season, fixing it hasn't been priority number one this season.

Yes Wigan were solid, strong, resolute organised - this year's Preston with a touch more football about them - but nothing special. But if 'the model' thinks it can compete using the Thompsons, a couple of loanees and a bunch of willing lads better suited to non-league, then I think the model needs to go home and have a word with itself.  I don't doubt that Anton Rodgers is a great technician and super character, but watching him watching the game and Doughty, a player strolling around with all the urgency of someone with 20 minutes to waste before his bus connection, in the middle of the pitch, WHERE IT ALL HAPPENS, was beyond painful.

Does anyone really believe this team going to progress next season with Belford, Barry, BOO, Rodgers, Hylton, Brophy etc in it?

Over to you Lee, indeed.

All of your suggestions make sense, but they all break The Model. Less loans and more senior players means more expense, which somehow we cannot afford yet most other teams, with less attendances, can. We simply have to hope that we get lucky like last year and it all comes together...to be fair, without the horrific injury spate when we only picked up a couple of points in 11 games, we'd be in a playoff position...which is the best we can hope for each year. Every year we're almost starting from scratch.

Well done to the Town End for singing for most of the second half...it was so grating to see people leaving when the 4th went in. I had to remind myself I'm pushing 50 and bit my lip...

I did enjoy the Town End singing "4-0 and you still don't sing" just as the away fans were passionately mid-rendition of another chant of northern dialect.

Wig-en-am indeed.

Very good side though, wouldn't be surprised if they overhauled Burton to win the league.

just read back through, my mums text of "this match is bollocks" really did sum it up then!

Decided not go despite my ST, due to quite a few of the lads missing on holiday, in Berlin blah blah.

So a cheap bottle of Crumptons Orchard cider and the sofa for me (with Swindon shirt on....why do I do that? :).

I was expecting a defeat but probably by a narrow margin. So I was only half right.

Sky came on and my heart sank. Cotterill and Prutton in the studio.....'Not these cunts!' I cried. The Omen....

We started brightly enough but Wigan never looked phased at any point in the game.

Maybe if Thompsons run and shot had gone in and Ajose not been called offside when he wasn't, things might of been different BUT Wigan DID miss a bucket of chances too.

At halftime I commented to Victor Mildew that we would lose 1 or two zip and I couldn't see us scoring.... Wrong again....

Total collapse at the start of the second but pleased to see Ajose take his goal so well.....Power was probably thinking Kerching!!!

I wasn't angry at the end but disappointed.

Wigan just too good....strong, skilful and organised and never ever unassured, it would of been a good game to watch if it wasn't my team having its arse handed to them on a plate!

It was mentioned on Sky about parachute payments and we can talk about formations and models all day long but let's face facts with that sort of budget Wigan should of already pissed this league weeks ago. The only thing that narked me a bit was Perkins at the end giving it the biggin ( I did like the managers comments). For me it was Wolves all over again. Wigan should take the title but I do hope Burton fuck it up for them..

Displays IMO:

Belford: no chance with goals for me....assured punching...should of punched Max Power just for looking like Cureton.

Barry: Oh dear ... Off day...allowed the cross for the first goal..poor.

Turnbulll: quite good, a few really good tackles.

N Thompson: Very good, got into some good positions but hot headed as usual, no complaints from me about the Red. Cotterill mus of got an erection at that!

Mr Sendles: Solid enough

Rodgers: Gone back to being fucking hopeless, giving the ball away all the time and attempting the impossible.

BOO: OK

Doughty: Not great at all, disappointing effort.

Louis: Didn't get going, sometimes ran too long with the ball but really there wasn't much else on.

Ajose: Took the goal well, only highlight and probably be sold.

Hylton: I doubt him and Doughty needed to shower after the match. Feel for him a bit, given a chance in a game that was crying out for Beaks.

So glad that Pererborough v Cov started quickly and so restricted coverage of the highlights!

Onwards we go.

Another win to hit the Reg target but really it's all dead rubbers for us now.  Fleetwood will be fighting like fuck next week.

The Model will have to change next season with the loan rules changing. There should be enough released players to pick up an experienced pro or two.

How long is Obika out for?

Some of you lot crack me up. One poor game and suddenly we're doing it all wrong. Never mind, we'll win a game again soon and then we'll be contenders again.

I think I read he might be available for Monday, so not long.

They could well get back to back promotions.  They will go up this season and because they get one more year of parachute payments they see that amount increase next year due to the new TV deal.  Add a few players to their squad on the back of a promotion and they could ride the crest of a wave.  Better than Preston in my view, they play decent football on top of the physical stuff.

Wigan are a much better side than us, have a much bigger budget amd with the players that they have should be winning the league. Don't see the need for overreacting after one bad result. We missed Obika massively as we no out ball up front which meant we had to continue dicking around the back even more than usual.  Bad day at the office but onto Scunthorpe. Just got my tickets for that, hope we revert back to a back 4 though, think we look more potent when we play a diamond 442 with robert in behind the front 2

I do agree that some of the comments are quite curious. What Belford has done to be deemed a non-league keeper based on that performance is barmy. Fact of the matter is that Wigan has us nailed tactically. We couldn't play it short so had to play it long to Hylton and Ajose who were never ever going to win their battles giving the ball back to Wigan.

You have to applaud our total football ethics but as Gary Birtles said in commentary sometimes you have to have a plan B and try and turn the Wigan defenders, it was way way too easy for them. Daniels looked a little Ropey when he fucked up and Nathan got in behind him in the first half, but we never put him under nearly enough pressure after that.

Still, mid-table is a good achievement given the start of the season.

One question though, why is Robert on the bench so much all of a sudden?

It wasn't just 'one poor game' though. It was a game against promotion contenders which is what we want to be and it's clear that we're a long way from being contenders ourselves. I went to great pains in my post to stress that we are NOT doing everything wrong but clearly there are some things that are going to need to change for us to be up there challenging. And the fact that we are over-reliant on loan signings was glaringly obvious even last season. We could have won 10-0 last night and it would still be the case. We would also still be crap at corners, and piss about with it too much at the back, and lack a couple of old heads and a couple of bigger bodies. All of those things are still true even when we're playing well and winning.

The criticism of people who dare voice a negative opinion on here is pretty fucking tiresome. It's bordering on the board apologist/happy clapper days

So I don't get to voice my opinion? Is that how it works? Besides you've somewhat missed the point, I'm pointing out the fickleness, not the negativity.

That's not what I said at all, I just said it's tiresome.

Comments like this:


Are not really accurate. We were shit yesterday and people have rightly stated this. The Model has always clearly had flaws and the game yesterday certainly highlighted them. Nobody is having a meltdown.

And as per this reply, the debate has nothing to do with the actual events but instead just comes down to some unrelated bollocks.

Again, I was highlighting the fickleness. Some comments suggest we are not physical enough to challenge yet we have been competing rather well. One game and to some that seems to be forgotten. Get another win and and yesterdays game will be forgotten and physicality, or lack thereof, will no longer be a problem.

I don't think it's fickle to highlight obvious flaws in The Model. We've done alright this season and nobody has said otherwise but in order to improve we need to look at our relative weaknesses and address them - especially with enforced changes coming.

Anyway, it's not really relevant and we're already repeating ourselves so I'll finish this with a stupid gif

(http://i.imgur.com/PfE4nkS.gif)

The gif settles it.

Anyway, a bit of a stato moment.

I worked out earlier that if we had our form under Williams from the start of the season, we'd currently be in 4th on 64 points. He's doing rather well so far.

To be fair I think the team sits about where it should do based on individual player ability.  Some of them may continue to improve, which I guess is the point, but improvement overall next season is going to be reliant on additions to the squad.

Certain people only show up when we lose...

Such as?

Matchday threads are always longer when we lose as there is more to discuss. The fact this game was on TV also meant more people would have been able to watch than usual hence the comments.

Twas ever thus.

Yesterday I had hoped that our lads would be able to express themselves, and I'm including the coaching staff in this, but we froze.

On to Scunny...our last couple of trips there have been very disappointing.  The absence of Nathan more or less dictates a 4-4-2....a nice boring 1-1, would be very acceptable.

My mind wanders back to a Jimmy Quin managed side of about 99.....we got ripped to shreds by Ipswich at the CG, 0-6 on the Friday, and then went to Uddersfield on the Monday and won 2-1.

The Ipswich game, was the heaviest defeat I've witnessed at the CG, eclipsing the 1-6 defeat to Newcastle in 65.  At one point yesterday, I thought we could easily be on for something a lot worse. Wigan could quite easily have scored 10.

We have achieved relative safety by beating the teams lower than us.

When you look at our results against the current top 10 it doesn't make pleasant reading.

Played 16 Won 2 Drew 5 Lost 9 = 11 points from 48.

Next season looks likely to be as equally weak as this so significant improvement is needed.

Yet again, our complete lack of quality in our back-ups has been shown up. We do seem overstocked with midfielders and bereft of striking options, too.

It's all very well Williams wanting a lean and tight knit squad but it leaves us so vulnerable when the inevitable injuries and suspensions come along.

Hopefully the way this season has panned out will help address these things next season.

Unfortunately it has not only been 1 poor game. We have been pretty shit in most home games under Williams but managing to salvage something with late goals. Alas something that was never going to happen yesterday.

Nevertheless we got the job done, which when in a relegation battle is what you need to do, so Williams and the players deserve credit for that.  We could very easily be in a Donny type position....their wage bill must be significantly higher than ours, given they could afford Williams' wages when we couldn't, and they got in a name lower league manager, but are in the crap.

They only had 10 shots for fuck's sake, half of them off target. On that basis, we could quite easily have scored 7.

Plenty of occasions where they got in wide behind us, put in dangerous crosses, that just needed a contact, but were missed altogether or scuffed, hence not a shot on target.

Dominant teams do not score every time they get within 20 yards of the opponents' goal. It doesn't happen. Which is why no football league team has scored 10 goals (or anywhere near it) in a match for a very long time. You're basically saying that we were lucky not to set a club record yesterday which, even by your standards, is absolutely ridiculous.

What I'm saying is that we were thoroughly outplayed, and at 4-0 down and Wigan creating a host of chances my mind wandered back to similar thrashings. You say it doesn't happen, however history shows that sometime it does.

History shows that sometimes teams lose 36-0. But history isn't always entirely relevant.

Right, it was a bridge too far and we lost for the first time in ages. It wasn't our day, Nicky got done by a bad call in the first half. Early second half they pinged in a couple of long-rangers, got lucky with one of them, and all of a sudden the game was done. But yeah, ok, if you feel that a team with 53% possession and 5 shots on target looked likely to score 10 goals, let's agree to differ.

As things stand, we've conceded the most goals at home in Div 3....further you need to go back 80 years, to 35/36 to find a season where we've reached Easster with only one clean sheet at home. This history tells us we're not very good defensively.

In 35/36 we mostly only conceded 1, 2, and 3s, a bit like this season, but there was a 1-6 capitulation to Watford, it can happen when you're dodgy at the back.

Right, so we could feasibly have conceded 6. The point you were making is that we looked like conceding 10. And that's bollocks.

OK, we'll have to differ....I don't mind our kamikaze football, but I do accept that it can lead to a few pastings.

Getting a good shoeing from arguably the best team in the league isn't 'just not our day'.
Ajose getting called offside wouldn't of made any difference to a defeat bar 6 or 7 to 2 instead of 4:1, I was relieved it wasn't more, they fluffed quite a few.

No shame in the defeat at all but I cannot bear a load of bollocks when reality is smashing you in the face.

Losing to Wigan doesn't make us shit and Williams has certainly turned us into a team worth watching again.

Sometimes you just have to take a kicking and get up again.

Denial isn't a river in Egypt!

There's no point in arguing about it all night. I'm hardly in denial, I've said that 6 would have been feasible. But to imply that we were on the verge of losing by a record margin, something which hasn't happened in the football league for decades, suggests that it by was by some margin the most one-sided procession that any of us have ever seen. And it was not.

We were pretty shit. They were pretty decent (as you would expect from a team that was consistently in the Premiership until a couple of years ago). We obviously lacked our "big man" up top up who has been a main outlet recently, leaving two of our midgets to compete with their giants. We've been on a very decent run of late. Am I going to lose any sleep over one humping to a team with a colossal wage budget compared to ours?

No.

We were poor, but we weren't that poor*. It was more a case of them just being too good for us than us actually being really shit.

There'll likely be 1 or 2 teams like that in this league again next season. We'll just have to steal any points from them that we can, but more importantly take as many points off the rest as we can.

*Except for that 10 minutes or so at the start of the 2nd half. That was atrocious.

This is how feel.

I saw the weaknesses, they were stronger, better etc etc.

Was a bit meh rather than livid or gutted after....

I'm just not keen on 'we were unlucky, we played well' posts.

That's why Cooper made my piss boil after shocking displays.

as pointed out on twitter similarities with 4-1 home defeat by Wolves couple of years ago in which Darren Ward played his last ever game for us. Yes we made some defensive howlers but bottom line was they were stronger, better organised and better paid than us (as they no doubt were against pretty much everyone else in League 1 too) WE seemed to get over that mauling ok as we probably will this one - although if Obika and Vigs are still injured, Sendles White is away with Norn Ireland and Nathan T is suspended the cupboard is looking pretty bare for game v Scunny.

My driveway this morning. Rub it in why don't you?

(http://i1268.photobucket.com/albums/jj571/frenchreds/IMG_1744.jpg) (http://s1268.photobucket.com/user/frenchreds/media/IMG_1744.jpg.html)

I'm still relaxed. The players and manager are responsible...

They put together a great run, playing some good football to boot.

50 points....another win and we are there. Hopefully sooner rather than later.

We got totally dicked on Friday, so I hope it doesn't hurt is too badly.

60 points wouldn't be too shabby or out of reach...snapped your arm off for that when we were shit for that.

But it doesn't matter. It gives an opportunity for the youngsters. Blood them for next year. See who is ready and who isn't. Reg has been saying all year that it has all been about 50 points and avoiding relegation. Priorities for the rest of the season aren't to win all the games, but to give people opportunities to shine.

I didn't think the performance was that bad to honest.

Wigan are a good side and are a club still being bankrolled / getting parachute payments from the PL, so it's not surprising they have some decent players. In fact, they remind me of Dicanio's side, the rear guard doesn't get troubled too often due to plenty of aggression and bite in the middle, with quality goal scoring options up top.

Under the circumstances, I think we did OK but got undone by quality.

I'd normally be as optimistic as everyone else for next season as we do look safe now, which is a good achievement given the managerial turmoil we've suffered this season.

However, Power is obviously going flog Ajose and anyone else he can in the summer as he looks to recoup the 'couple of million' that the club allegedly owes him, which will bring us back to where we were at the beginning of this season; lightweight, untried, unproven players mixed with those remaining players that have done OK for us this season, which means Groundhog season all over again.

Not with my money though.

Oh fuck me here we go.
Power's going to flog Ajose as part of his nefarious plan is he? Can you think of an owner you'd approve of who WOULDN'T sell Ajose? He is an asset and we aren't a club that can piss about with the odd million here or there. If we get a decent offer, we will sell him. That's how it works without an oligarch.

It continues to astound me that people think that because Power will sell players he's some sort of villain. It's what we need to do. I can understand people quibbling about his media antagonism, or even his love of loans. But the fact we could lose a guy who is one of the top goal scorers in league one? How do you propose we keep him?

The first half of the post was quite sensible, then obviously the meds failed and you went back to memorabilia in a box man. Tip Keep taking the mongadong..

The first half of the post was quite sensible.