Thetownend.com

5 year contract then. 5 years... blimey.

Knowing how things have been going, and Swindon Town generally, I expected to open this and find that he had resigned!

Linkage... http://www.swindontownfc.co.uk/news/article/williams-announced-as-head-coach-2998379.aspx

 Excellent....means if someone wants to poach him they'll need to pay. 

And a manager of the month nomination.

that's it we're doomed.

Shows how integral Williams is to Power's (personal) business plan

Without Williams, you can't polish up prem rejects or non-leaguers for cash

Imagine Williams will cut a cut of transfers too

Great news for the Club & fans though

And if you're being less cynical, you'd say the appointment and Powers statement are seriously impressive.

Looks like Power will be sticking around for a while then.

At face value, that statement is one of the most positive and refreshing things I've read from this club in a long time.

Sure, you can load it with cynicism, doubt and cries of "where's the all the money gone though", but I'll leave that for others.

It is a show of confidence in Luke Williams from the board of Swindon (Power).

Williams has always been unsackable and even with this length of contract is a no brainer from the club.

If we carry on doing well then his stock continues to rise and any compensation offer would be large, if we go into a slump then we appoint a manager above him then he is still employed as head coach.

Makes sense all round.

That's almost like an old skool Friday statement....except it's good to read. OK it might well turn to shit, but at least it looks like we have some sort of coherent policy for the medium term future.

Seems like a sensible decision for me. The guy has done a fantastic job here for a few years now and deserves his shot. 5 years though... blimey. That is a huge show of faith.

Really pleased about that. A good read.

Apart from the fucking white text on a black background hurting my eyes.

Not just me then that finds that horrible to read!

When was the last time we kept a manager for 5 (or more) years?

Andy King  :)

Don't think so...

Pitched up in 2000, left in 2005. Was still on the payroll during the Evans interregnum.

Wasn't our manager that whole time though.

But we still kept him for 5 years.

5 years???! wonder if someone else was sniffing around. mind you it's a two way thing, if it all goes south then ???.

I guess power is ruthless enough to cover that

His stock as a coach is high.

The improvements in some of the players this season (Barry springs to mind immediately and Iandolo looks a player too apparently) certainly suggest that LW has the ability to polish turds.

Positive move by the club.

Byrne & Gladwin are another two who improved massively.

More than happy with this.
As long as he doesn't grow a beard again.

Perfect examples really and we sold them for big profits. Hopefully we'll see something similarly with Hylton and Jordan Stewart and some of the other youngsters next season.

Provisionally delighted.

Same here. Great news. Onwards...

Five years seems steep but hopefully it will mean we will get millions when he leaves after back to back promos...

Happy enough..         

Not sure what the going rate is for a manager. Not much is it? I see the length as more a statement of intent.

It's a statement from Williams as well I reckon.

Good stuff. Powers jigsaw is clicking into place by the looks of it.

I wonder who the 4 are that will come in as soon as the window opens?

Jordan turnbull, louis thompson, jack stephens and ben gladwin

If it's not ex-players then it'll be from the usual contacts.

Not that this is a bad thing.

I imagine Turnbull and Vigouroux are strong targets, Stephens would also be a huge plus but can't see it.

What's this all about then?

I can see us signing Turnbull, Vigeroux and Doughty permanently.

I thought Power said during the phone-in that he had 2 deals agreed in principle for when the summer window opens.  I don't know where the figure 4 has come from.

Edit: The statement on the OS today mentions that the nucleus of the current squad plus "3 or 4" additions to be completed early in the window should see us challenging next season. 

Doughty I very much doubt but does rate Williams highly? That I do know. It's the power of the dosh?

Doughty would be most important signing if we can complete it. He has given the team a lot of balance and can't think of what he's lacking in his game tbh.

 Power mentioned two deals as good as sorted and two more that we're being discussed.

Doughty and Vigoroux permanents would be a great start. Been very impressed with Doughty, think he's class at league 1 level.

It's an odd one, but I like it.  Statement of intent from the owner.  It gives us direction.  And, until recently, it felt as if we had started to drift.

Good luck, Luke.  You've certainly earned your chance.  Backing you all the way to take it.

Discipline? Picks up a lot of bookings but that's really being nit-picking!

If that's the worst trait, we can't complain

Agreed, it needed someone to take the pitch by the scruff of the neck and he's done that.

I thought Williams had already been appointed on a permanent basis

We didn't keep him as manager for 5 years. He had two spells as here as manager.
When was the last time we kept a manager (as manager) consecutively for 5 years?

Lou Macari then 1984-1989, he did OK didn't he!

Your question was "when was the last time we kept a manager for 5 years"....clearly King was a manager and we kept him for 5 years.

According to DV's criteria Lou doesn't qualify as he was sacked and then reinstated in April 85. You'd have to go back to Bert Head.

We didn't because we sacked him and had another manager inbetween his two spells.

Careful DV. Reg has all the time in the world to argue the toss. As I know to my cost.

Admittedly I have done zero research into this claim but I am going to say it anyway: This is the second longest managerial contract EVER, behind only PARDS and his 8 year Newcastle deal.

To put it in perspective, do you know how many managers have managed the same club for over 5 years?

Three. Wenger (Arsenal, 3 millennia), Tisdale (Exeter, 9 years, 257 days), Robinson (Franchise, 5 yrs, 304 days) . There are 3 more on 4+ years and 8 further on 3+ years.

I think the length of contract merely protects both parties. Not really a reflection of expectation he'll still be here in 5 years - odds are he won't - hopefully because he's been poached after taking us to the championship.

Power handing out a 5 year contract and stating he wants to move away from the loan market and doing deals early...

Did he bump his head or something? This seems very un-Power like...

As has been said, yes it's unlikely that he'll stay for 5 years; he'll either do well and move to a bigger club or do badly and get sacked.

The great thing about a 5 year deal (a huge length by current standards whether 2nd longest or whatever) is that Power, who doesn't chuck away money carelessly, is clearly convinced that it will be the former not the latter.

The most positive I've felt about the future of the club for a long time.

I wouldn't write off the Doughty deal just yet.QPR owe us a bit of money still I would imagine so imagine theres room to negotiate what they owe in exchange for Doughty.

Firstly I'm happy that he's got the job full time, he seems to have done a pretty good job so far.

Secondly the length of contract gives both parties a level of security & shows that maybe there is a long term plan, but if either party should want to end it early it simply strengthens the bargaining position of the other party for any potential compensation

I think it was reported by many that Pards was actually a rolling single year deal and 8 years was just its full possible lenghth.

We also gave McMahon a five year deal. There is a link from here http://thewashbag.com/2016/03/10/luke-williams-the-hip-klopp-or-beardielsa/

Hoepfully this will entice some of the lost sheep back to watch some games coupled with how we're playing at the moment and maybe even some extra renewals from those that had doubts.

Nice piece. The last bit is my only worry about this appointment - that at some point all football managers get sacked, and we shouldn't be sacking someone so integral to 'the project'.

But I think it's fair to say Power is not one to be easily swayed by external pressures (on anything!) so after giving him a five-year contract I'm confident he will stand by his man when an inevitable bad run surfaces.

I was only a boy at the time, but I seem to remember Rikki Hunt absolutely worshipped Steve McMahon... so that doesn't seem surprising he gave him a 5 year deal!

LW is the only person at the club that would have been considered for a 5 year contract because as Power has stated "he is the Goose that lays the Golden egg".  he is the one that will be generating the transfer fees, whether he is managing the team or not.

It's a no brainer with limited risk, because as Venks pointed out, if it doesn't work out for him as manager, we still want him to carry on his head coaching duties anyway..  Good move all round for everyone involved.

With regards to moving away from the loan system, he is being forced to do that anyway because of the rule changes next season, so this is less of a change for Power more of a re-direction of strategy due to the changing environment.

Two of the biggest complaints from fans have been the managerial situation and the fact that we have too many loans and therefore have to rebuild every season.  Both of these complaints have been addressed in the last 24 hours..

So, back to the important stuff.  When are they going to start selling Yorkshire tea?

Both scousers - they worship their own!   Ultimately both failures (wi-fi Rikki?)!

That was a common theme at Swindon at one time.  Bert Head and the then chairmen were live-in lovers which was why he remained as manager for so long despite achieving nothing for the club.

Listening to Power earlier, it was quite clearly that he is a tad frustrated.

I'm not saying it's necessarily the right or wrong thing to do, but I think that Power might be looking for a manager soon. I'm guessing he'd still want Williams to stay on as head coach (which is his job title)

That's not necessarily what I want, just what I think might happen.

I don't think it's looking good for LW. Not a great deal to feel optimistic about supporting Swindon at the moment.

Wasn't at the game tonight because been at uni since Sunday. Problem is downto the STYLE of football -not sure if that comes from LW or Power but the whole possession football does not always work (particularly for a club of L1 ability). The defence has beeen an absolute shambles for last few seasons too, drop looking inevitable.

Sherwood lurking in the wings wont make Williams confident.

I think he's had enough time to prove that managing isn't his thing

Williams won't leave the club, he'll either move sideways and work alongside someone or back to an assistant/coaching role. Unfortunately, Power will almost certainly stick with him for a good few months yet.

Williams ain't a manager unfortunately so something really needs to change. Quite often good coaches don't make good managers.

I think rookie managers need strong mentors. Our entire coaching set-up are products of development football which, I imagine, is a different environment in comparison to the senior set-up.

Williams had Mark Cooper.........

Another thing I've noticed is that Williams seems to close to the players, he's too friendly with them with some of them often seen out for meals together. It makes it very hard to rock the apple cart and make hard decisions when they are your friends.

Lee Power needs to entirely shoulder the blame for this.

I agree Williams isn't a manager but with Power running the show who are we going to get?

We have won 4 in the last 20. If we do go down the tippy tappy stuff will be steamrollered in L2.

Time for Mr Power to go. Enough is enough were going backwards

Can't see that happening.

Ditch the 3/5 at the back and we'll improve massively...

One assumes that our "way of playing" comes from above Williams.
We have no spare budget for new players.
It leads to the question, what's the point of replacing him if the new man is so restricted.

I suppose you could argue that Ling had a positive effect in the same circumstances, which is fair enough.

There's a reason Williams didn't want the job the couple of times he was offered it after Cooper.

Bit knee jerk to think about shifting now... but we need something to sort out the mentality issues we have. Poor discipline and they're caving to pressure too easily.

We've got some good players who could and should be doing better. Id give Williams a bit more time and even if we were to get someone in I would keep Williams as a coach.

Right not necessarily just aimed at you but these statements fucking do my head in. If Power goes who the fuck runs the club?!

Our history of interested parties/owners includes Ricky Hunt, Terry Brady, Danny Donegan, Diamandis, Jim Little, Jed etc. Where exactly are these miraculous new owners going to come from, we have zero assets and a shit load of baggage when it comes to our finandial history. And don't say something like the Trust as we'd be in exactly the same position of breaking even but minus Powers contacts and probably a load of fans arguing with each other.

Power chooses the style of play.
Power signs all the players.
The buck stops with Power. His decision making is currently looking very poor.
Never mind the off-field PR and ticketing fiascos.
He still has to be held to account, no matter how bad the past has been at times.

I think it's fair to say that I am among the least knee-jerky among us here and I bumped this thread.

A stat that Reg bought up the other day got me thinking... 4 wins in 19/20?

I think its fair to say I'm a glass half empty kind of guy, and that was far worse than I thought!

Hard to pin too much of the blame on Williams here. Starting to get really fucked off with Power now. His methods are not working. For the first time in a long time I have very little desire to go to games and my interest in STFC is dwindling rapidly. Fucking bullshit tonight. The worst part of it was that I wasn't even angry at the end which is a reflection of the lost interest.

Any scout for other clubs watching tonight is just going to say "play 3 up front and you'll rip them to pieces" so unless Williams does change our style we are in a lot of trouble tactically as we've been well and truly found out. We can't play a back 3 with Branco and Thompson in it, one is a liability full stop and the other is a liability as he's playing out of position.

I said tonight was a big game for Luke....Power now has a decision to make, if he's serious about his prospects of making some money from player development, then he needs a new man. By all means restore Luke to his former role, if he's happy with that...I'm assuming the terms of the 5 year contract allow for this.

Genuine question to everyone saying Power should go.... What happens next?

Not go... But be prepared to adapt the playing system.

Wow knees are jerking here - I am amazed Power wants to stay at our little club - poorly supported even when we do moderately well - expectations have always been over stated by our fans and to be honest Power whether you like him or not is the best option unless some lunatic thinks buying the club makes sense. Williams will hopefully be given a bit of time to sort this lot out - we so nearly hung on but in typical Swindon style blew it - Rovers were much better and yet we almost had the game - at this level we should be use to this sort of standard - early days get behind the team when it is needed the most and stop whinging on constantly.

That Arab billionaire that has been sniffing around will take over obviously, or more likely another penniless chancer like Jed - people need to be careful what they wish for - we might be doing shit on the field but I cannot say I miss the monthly embargo's and administrations.

Its the lack of any sort of plan B which strangles us, even Andy Townsend (for gods sake) said on the radio the other night (when talking about Leatherhead I recall) that if you are not winning playing 'good' football you have to think why is it not happening and react, tighten things up and play to win for a while to get the mentality and then reassess when in a safer position.

Plus it appears that much like Roberto Matinez, Williams and Power just cannot put together nor coach a defence.

Spot on with all of that.

We are trying to be a bit more Plan B. For example Vigs now mostly kicks long, we've got a bit of aerial presence at both offensive and defensive corners and a bit of pace up front looking for the channels. Yesterday we tried to spoil the game after about an hour by time wasting, niggly fouls etc. it was embarrassing.

One of our main problems atm is that a large number of players just aren't fit....of last night's starting XI Furlong looks the only one with 2 games in a week in his legs. Some like Raffa, are operating on about 75%.  Now I don't know if this will improve or that fellas like Connor Thomas, have just been so reduced by injury, that it's then best they'll be.

I kind of agree with Reg, a lot of them were shattered towards the end.

I don't think it's helped we haven't been able to really play with a settle squad of players yet either.

Sadly, I don't think Luke Williams/Ross Embleton can improve from here. This is a great opportunity for them but we need more. I'm not sure Tim Sherwood represents 'more' though.

The squad is, for whatever the reason, getting weaker and weaker. I'm quite disappointed as we always seem quite close to the right formula without ever achieving success. We shouldn't strive to be League One fodder and, despite impressive soundbites, that's all we've been post-PNE.

Power appeared to work around the clock to secure the services of Nicky Ajose and sold him off for a frankly derogatory fee less than a year later (a laughable fee when compared to what other clubs in that position could command for a contracted player).  Whether or not this was Power/Williams' intention but the decision to sell Ajose and bring in a squad player from Gillingham and a spiralling former PL prospect has so far had the outcome of what would happen if you sell a 20+ goalscoring centre forward and replace him with a squad player from Gillingham and a former PL prospect dropping down the divisions. Funny that. I expect Zamora to rock up sooner rather than later to complete the holy trinity and that would go one of two ways.

I'm not calling for Power's departure but a rethink of philosophy across the board. It worked with the assistance of Tottenham Hotspur and other assorted contacts but a development based coaching staff and a couple of favours from QPR are not going to improve us.

Not normally so down on Swindon so early in the season but we're seeing the hallmarks of a standard shitty season.

Fitness does seem to be a major issue in the last couple of seasons, more injuries at any one time than I have known in the 40+ years I have been watching Swindon.

Players don't seem to be able to keep going for 90+ minutes and so many injuries picked up in training and in games, is it the general fitness of the players or our training regime? who knows but it is getting silly.

Yes some injuries can be put down to bad luck...Doughty with his appendix and JSW with his ACL but some, like yesterday Brophy went off after "feeling a bit woozy" that isn't right.

If I remember rightly Brophy got a whack in the back of the head and was down for a minute or 2 getting treatment not long before half time I think the wovers player got booked for it so I suspect it was concussion.

The tactics were wrong last night. Save a couple of 5 minute spells we looked like an away team going for a point. 1 men behind the ball for the most of the game and we started playing long.

We could do with a larger squad but I got the impression this was Williams trying something different and failing miserably.

The "feeling a bit woozy" quote came from Ross Embleton at half time.

Agree that fitness is a big issue... just read a stat that Man City and Liverpool have covered the most ground this year - which 2 teams are looking the best in the prem?

Just heard a rumour of local businessmen Jez Webb (webbs timber) and current supermarine chairman & James Phipps (Excalibur) interested in a takeover at SN1.

If we only had 1 man behind the ball, that might explain our defensive troubles.

Don't get our hopes up  >:(

James is a fan, and relative of a friend, I haven't heard this rumour...

In the present circumstances, there's bound to be plenty of rumours flying around.

James not a fan of power or his current running of the club. He and Jez are good friends and have business dealings already
Perhaps almost like a trust ownership . .  . . .

I think Phipps would come in under the trust rather than as a private individual wouldn't he. He's certainly talked of fan ownership in the long term..

Surely the Trust cannot afford to buy the club off Power though?

Would Power be willing to sell now? I don't think he would unless someone comes in with silly money which with no offence to these individuals would they be able to stump up the amount?

I think Power will hold out for something like £10m+ if he did sell and there is also the "sell on" fee to be paid to Black when Power does eventually sell up, which was £7m or £10m (depending on sources) which was deferred when Jed/Power took over to be paid when Power/Jed sell the club. The details on this were a bit sketchy at the time.

Possibly for tax reasons and with Jez on board to ensure the trust have the financial backing with the two of them.

I don't see Lee Power leaving Swindon any time soon.

I'm sure Power would sell for the right sort of money....which is hard to see being there atm, but who knows... what attracted a Jordanian billionaire banker to Rovers?

A good thing relative to past years, is that the Trust does seem to have some bright people involved, and there isn't something like the CVA hanging over the club, as was the case in the Diamond Mike era, so if Power does get out, the Trust could probably get in.

However, I don't think it has yet come to orange time for Power, whereby he is persuaded to sell up by fan protest.

Which means a change of manager would be a complete waste of time.

...unless there's a rethink of philosophy. Which I doubt will happen either.

Thats an easy one....."Property development"......the sale of the Memorial Ground with the possibility of investment in the new ground.

Their owner has showed he is not there to invest in the team, he is there for the planning knock ons from selling the ground and moving to the UWE stadium.

Something of a lure that we do not have with our lovely council owning the CG.

Am I the only one that thinking Power isn't THAT bad? Certainly not the villain he's made out to be (Swindon fans melodramatic, who knew)

He's the only owner I can think of in recent times that hasn't a) got us relegated (yet!) or b) nearly bankrupt us. Also the only one I can think of that has run us sustainably and produced a sensible model (its too early to judge this season despite knee jerks).

The only thing he has really struggled at is engaging with the local community... and he's pissed a lot of fans of. But then that's not exactly hard!

I think a fan run club would be a disaster. Imagine if our fans had their way! We'd have used up all our subs by half time and our game plan would be FORWARRDDDDDDDD.

I didn't mean to suggest he would sell, or that the Trust were definitely looking to take it on.

I have no opinion on whether he is that bad or not. Impossible to know if he's trying to fleece the club of revenue streams, or is doing the very best he can whilst trying to keep us competitive and sustainable at the same time.

The former won't be known until its after the fact.

The latter is something very hard to pull off, and is commendable in theory. But a very difficult hard sell to the fans - "look we've balanced the books and scraped survival" - nobody is going to rejoice too much even if that is actually a minor miracle.

--

I do however have no sympathy for the (reasonable) type of criticism he gets from running a closed 'my way or the highway' type shop. I'm not talking about unsubstantiated rumours type criticism, that's too much.

I also don't see how we go forward as a club. We seem further from the Championship now than we've ever seemed. Just hoping it all clicks and a look like a (bigger) dick come May.

No, you're not, and to be frank a lot of out fans are fucking idiots. OK, so he's bad at PR but if that's the only fault of his that is demonstrable then he's not doing a bad job.

It's been what, 3 years now? Something like that. Yet still nobody has offered anything of substance to show that he is whatever it is he is accused of being. Nothing, just some credulous fuck-wits on the interweb agreeing that others are correct for no other reasons than they agree with them.

He had the option of charging ST holders for last night's match. He chose not to, yet still he is accused of being greedy! The poor cunt just cannot win. There was a time that I would day-dream about winning gazillions and buying the club. Not any more, seems more of a nightmare.

Which is why I said it isn't yet time for orange hats. Power does have some credit in the bank (perhaps not the best metaphor), however his model now seems to have run its course.  So logic dictates, he either changes course namely get in a proper manager, or sells up.

This current management set up will get us back to Div 4.

Ever since Jed left the club our league position has deteriorated

 ;D

The same could be said about John Gorman!

While Williams may be a good coach, he is not a manager and that is what we need

That's not how Trust-run clubs operate, it's not like everyone votes on every decision in the running of the club. But then I think you know that already don't you?

Oh, fucking cheers :)

Exactly....it was worth a punt, but I think we've seen enough now to know it isn't working. 

Talk of change of ownership has elements of knee-jerking but our on-the-field plight, however, is not.

Yes, that part of my post was tongue in cheek.

I still think it'd be a disaster, and the people moaning about Power now will be complaining just as much with a fan run board. Unless the fan run board contains 2 billionaires willing to bankroll us to the Premier League.

But any manager will have to work under constraints that the current custodian does and with the current crop of players at his disposal. A very tough task.

No problem, despite all your good work, it was still a time when the Trust Board, tried to get Justin Tomlinson in as a figure head....I rest case milord.

4 wins in 20 is not knee-jerk by any stretch of the imagination. I've tried to look for reasons that might explain it but have failed to convince even myself.

I hope Luke makes it click, I really do, but his record so far does not give me much confidence. What's more important is what Power thinks about it and hearing him speak yesterday, even before the defeat, I think he was getting more than a little frustrated.

Erm, we worked with the local council and Justin was very helpful in that, which we acknowledged, and rightly so. We also worked closely with Anne Snelgrove, one of the local MPs at the time, and Rod Bluh, council leader at the time. We didn't use any of them as figure heads. I think your Tory-phobia is selectively effecting your memory.

My memory is of a cringeworthy meeting, whereby JT was introduced as someone who the Trust Board wished to rubber stamp into a role of El Presidente, or Chairman or something. Still a long time ago now, but it was fairly obvious that JT just saw STFC as a vehicle for his lifetime ambition of being publicly humiliated in the House of Commons.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nV7wgJ-VTDc

Jez.... Jed just coincidental? We all remember that he couldn't spell his own name  :hmmm:

Jeremy [Wray] also abbreviates to Jez. Has anyone seen any of the three of them in the same room together?

Exactly, people seem to forget when considering the value of the club (and also its availability for asset stripping) the cub own essentially fuck all, there is nothing to strip quietly, the only way anyone could make cash would to be publicly sell all the players and possibly a few cones.

Indeed although why should I listen to you, you failed the Trust previously, I blame Thatcher!

Agree with this, I used to be pro fan ownership but I don't think it would end well with us as too many of our 'fans' are idiots. The Trust would have no money either so would have to operate a self sustaining model similar to Power anyway. Also don't think fans would be capable of making the difficult business decisions and their willingness to waste £500k on polishing the turd that is the Stratton Bank suggests the use of money wouldn't always be wise.

1 of 2 things need to happen for anything to change which is either a sugar daddy that will throw money at the club or a proper redevelopment of the ground. Swapping Power for the Trust would solve nothing.

Ling's appointment looked quite promising in that short spell as manager, it's a shame it didn't work out.
Probably had a knock on effect into Williams' caretaker spell which he couldn't sustain.

It's questionable to suggest Power is picking the tactics this season.

This old argument was put about by  the Jed apologists on here, even when others flagged up the multitude of ways money can be taken from a club with a little, perfectly legal creativity, some didn't get it.....and still don't seemingly.

That's exactly what people said when rubbishing the idea that Jed could possibly be an asset-stripper. Shortly before he flogged off the catering for the next decade (not that I'm suggesting that should be seen as asset-stripping, but the point is that people always forget about forward selling unrealised profits when blithely declaring "we've got nothing to sell anyway so we're OK"). Similar to Ridsdale's mortgaging Cardiff's future season ticket sales a few years back. Don't underestimate the imaginative ability of some of these chancers to find stuff to flog off.

We could find our level, as a sustainable club....personally I'd rather be in the shit as  a fan owned club, than, as now heading for the shit as Power's plaything.

Which is exactly what we're doing right now, while at the same time building a training ground and developing our own young players.

On the pitch there is, arguably, a minor issue developing (but not one that we haven't seen before under with a team 3 times more expensive). We'll still finish mid table though I reckon.

Off the pitch, however....

I just don't get what everyone moaning actually wants (board wise)? Do they want us to spend more money than we have? Do they want us to continue the shambles of our training arrangements?

But what we got to forward sell, season ticket sales are going down the shitter and Power is pissing people off left right and centre, if he had any aspirations of stripping (god forbid) or selling the club for an inflated fee based on future revenues he is making a shitty job of doing it.

We have a team that needs investment, a stadium that needs investment which we don't own and only makes cash 23 days a year, a training ground which is presently a golf course and needs investment, a number of leased Mercedes, even the burger sales go to a 3rd party. We are a financial black hole. Christ if I was going to buy something to strip there are much better options out there, in purely financial terms I imagine certain national League or below clubs would be more attractive than we are.

Therefore it will either be a fan (brilliant although as Fitton proved can often go tits up - Swansea seems the best example of how it can work - did they own the Vetch Field though?)) or someone like Jed/Pa Agombar who like the perceived prestige it brings), the Trust had an opportunity when they only needed a quid to buy the club (they probably had more money in the bank than Jed did) so won't hold my breath.

Exactly Tel  ;)

I think a lot of fans remember the positives of the PDC era and possibly forget the financial shit storm that followed (I think the subsequent trials and tribulations of Jed led to a lot of the mess overspending caused being brushed under the carpet in peoples mammaries), the foundations of which had little to do with Jed and more to do with a structure being left that would have bankrupted us.

I wouldn't. For example say some idiot from that Facebook group got voted in I dread to imagine where the club would end up and there's enough of them for that to be a possibility. Too many of our fans would moan regardless, I would go as far to say that the worst thing about the club (and the only thing that would see me stop going) is a section of our fanbase revel in it when things go wrong.

This. Blimey, even the borderline normal on here seem to be heading for the cliffs on the back of a couple of dodgy results, such as there have been many over the last century and a half. Sustainable, actually earning money for players, developing a training ground, it's all the things people have been crying out for for years. But when it turns out it doesn't all improve on an exponential upward curve, everyone's lip starts wobbling.

C'mon fellas, get a grip.

I'll tell you what I want - and it isn't guaranteed promotion flirting every season. I want to go and watch my team without always having the gnawing dread that a monumental cock-up isn't right around the corner.

I don't expect to win every game but I do expect those responsible for putting the team on the pitch to accept what the vast majority of fans already know - the system we play week in week out just doesn't work and never will at L1 level where the squad is built on youth for youth's sake.

Let's not kid ourselves, our budget is decent enough at this level to enable at least a couple of experienced players who wont have a cash value to the club but who could shepherd the promising youngsters we do have.

Inexperienced players led by an inexperienced manager/coach was always going to be a huge punt. It hasn't worked.

Time for a change of direction as the players we do have are, by and large, good enough. They just need to be led properly.

The players are not being developed(apart from the odd exception). They've been that already. The football Swindon play is what they will have been brought up on in their respective academies.
What they lack is experience and that is what the club offer. It's an opportunity to play league football for players who probably wouldn't get the chance at the clubs we get them from. You can get lucky that way with some gems, likewise you can suffer for it. The trouble is they need to hit the ground running and that is hard. Especially when you're surrounded by players in the same situation. No old heads to guide them etc.

Wasn't suggesting Power was about to start asset stripping, just warning it's dangerous to be blase that we're somehow immune from being attractive to the Agombars of this world.

Apart from maybe 1 or 2 seasons this has never been the case. And this is true for 95% of football teams too.

We tried that with Black and what happened there exposes the deficiencies of the sugar daddy model - when he gets bored, you're fucked and even more vulnerable to chancers because sugar daddies don't bother to build in sustainability so all too often the club's left with big debts to the sugar daddy, a massive wage bill it can't sustain without the "golden teat", and running costs likewise. We actually got lucky with Black in that he gave us a relatively soft landing in terms of the debt, albeit it was also a soft landing because he dropped us in the shit.

So you reckon 95% of clubs make the kind of cock-ups on the same scale we do, game in game out?

I haven't noticed.

You'd be surprised mate. They may not occur as regularly as ours do but no fan of any club goes into a game knowing they won't make a mistake.

Bit different from knowing that you will, though.

Of course, every player makes mistakes and I'm not pointing the finger specifically at any of ours.

It's the system we play that is the breeding ground for our howlers. I have no faith in Williams being able to fashion an effective method of play.

20-odd games surely proves that.

Most attending fans go to mostly home games......last season, we had home form which was historically poor for our many seasons in Div 3.....damn near got us relegated but with Ajose's goals we managed to dig ourselves out of holes v notably Crewe, Blackpool, and Sarfend. Crewe and Blackpool both went down. It was close, probably turning those 3 round was key.

I agree with what you say, you'd hope that we might have learned something from that, and tightened up the home form, but the last 2 games shows we haven't. Rovers who are a very moderate outfit could easily have had 4 or 5, without really doing much.

Rovers themselves, like our other recent conquerors Oxford, have vividly demonstrated if poor standards are accepted you end up in the Conference.

With Oldham coming upon Sat, Luke has an opportunity to show he can fashion an effective method.  A draw would be something....consider that since he's been involved we've played Oldham 6 times. lost 5 and had the one draw. Lost all 3 at Boundary Park.

It was pretty obvious, back in that 2-2 draw at the CG that Lee Johnson had our tactical measure, and the 5 defeats have shown that even though Johnson left....think it was Sheridan who did the same sort of job. However he's gone now.

I can't get this vision out of my head of you riding round on a unicycle blowing a party streamer whilst writing these posts Reg ;)

Nathan Thompson fucked up again at the back for their goal. Can Luke Williams really be blamed for that? Can he be blamed for Branco's clumsiness for the first?

I heard someone say "it's Williams' fault really though" after the OG.

They had at least a dozen good chances. The game could have been over at half time.

This is my biggest gripe with our system, we're a good season away from being in one of Europe's top 5 divisions - attendance wise - surely we can find room for one CB between 26 and 32 years old and one other in either a CM or CF role with the necessary know-how to get through games like last night when it is obvious what we're doing wrong.

I believe Power is doing what he feels best for the club, he's not going to make money unless he does, but successful teams breed bigger transfer deals, we reaped that off the back of our last play off season but we got very lucky that season in terms of our goals against column. 

We could really do with an age appropriate Darren Ward or in an absolutely ideal world an Ian Culverhouse to talk our promising younger players through the game.  It just makes sense to allow for this in our setup to allow said younger players to get out there and do what they're good at in order for us to either move up a division or for them to at least be worth a decent fee individually.

As an aside, I'm starting to get seriously fed up with what i consider to be a poisonous fan base at the club, this may be my last season of a reasonable attendance rate as I'm looking to extend my 6 winter months in France to full time as I'm seriously looking into buying a bar in the Alps which would require a 12 month commitment. 

What upsets me is that I might not care about not being active anymore, the last 12 years I've been away from November onward I've missed going hugely but the last couple of months have been horrible. 

I can stand poor results here and there but things like that FB group I cannot.  For them to be up in arms that the club stopped people live streaming games  - which is absolutely illegal - and encouraging other people to be equally up in arms is disgusting and I'm starting to feel embarrassed that I associate myself, although loosely, with people like this. 

(http://i.imgur.com/y9I8672.gif)

/thread

I'm not shutting up from a fucking wrestling gif.

(https://media4.giphy.com/media/l2JedkFZeP8u2jG0g/giphy.gif)

This. The worst thing about the club is a element of our fan base!

Yeah because Thompson is 'one of our own' and thus blameless.

Agree with all that but.....

Don't know what Power has to invest to get us over the line into the Championship but there are no guarantees with such investment and he may think its not worth the risk, especially if we do get promoted he will just be battered by the fan base for making a profit and get accused of being a crook more vociferously by all and sundry.

It's not just me then ;)

Branco IS 26, disappointing that he's the elder statesman.


Seriously? I steer clear of that group, they were lucky not to be chucked out. Might have to re-join to troll.
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There is bound to be a negativity around the same shit happening when it happens against our local rivals in the the space of a couple of weeks. Anyone thinking this wouldn't be the same from the fans at almost every other club is a bit special themselves (not at you KT)

I'm not that interested in the Championship. I'm not that interested in Power. The fact I'm not interested in Power is progress itself. It is right, however, that he comes under scrutiny - but in the right way. I don't like every thing he does and he's his own worst enemy when it comes to people adding 2+2 and making 67 or possibly 4.
All I want is a team that competes and doesn't self destruct. If we lose I want it to be by better teams playing decent football, not by our continual ineptitude at the back. We are so predictable and downright stupid. Bury played solid banks of 4, Rovers went 3 up. Both opposition managers done a job on us tactically and we did a job on ourselves with our gross, perpetual incompetence. Neither team will be anywhere near the top at the end.
Luke Williams may be a great coach but I haven't seen much evidence of it. I've seen even less ability as a manager. Its nowhere near time to press the button but it is time to sort the defence out and I agree about Thompson. that goal Tuesday really sums up where we're at.  No doubt on Saturday we'll have other examples and some more Tuesday.   

I doubt teams even scout us any more, no need when we have been exactly the same for close to 3 seasons.

Therein lies the problem, we play rigidly to a system, not the abilities of our players. Since way beyond Williams we have played tippy tappy out from the back with defenders who don't have the passing ability to play it, just because John Stones could potentially play our system does not mean a level 3 player can, if they could consistently they would be playing at a higher level than we are (hence why Kasim and Thompson are still here, great in patches but consistently no, I used to watch northern league a lot and Lancaster City had players who once a season could put national players to shame but the rest of the time were mediocre hence the level they settled at).

Its easy, put pressure on defenders who are not that comfortable on the ball and they will make mistakes and give it away, even if your strikers just do it for the first 10 minutes of the game it will always be on their mind and lead to errors, add to that certain midfielders apparent inability to concentrate for an entire game and give the ball away and its hardly surprising we lose it a lot, add in limited pace to recover and we are knackered - easy to read and not rocket science to counter tactically as managers have realised.

It's not the system. An 8th place and our highest finish in 15(?) years is testament to that. Lingy made it work also.

It is the system if you don't have the players with the ability to play it!

It's the rigidity of the system and seeming refusal to evolve said system that is the issue, not necessarily the system itself.

We have steadily declined since first adopting the so-called tippy tappy system and problems such as defensive frailties have always been there, we've just been more dominant in the past due to our quality in midfield/attack that we haven't come under so much pressure at the back.

Teams have us figured out, they know our weaknesses and how easy they are to exploit. We stubbornly refuse to respond and sometimes it works, more often it does not.

Personally I think one of our biggest problems this season is that the squad just doesn't seem right, it's a disparate bunch of mismatched players who never look like they understand one another. There are no partnerships and we are overly reliant on a spine containing two incredibly inconsistent players in Thompson and Kasim. In the games I've seen we've lacked energy and desire yet have been stupid and indisciplined.

We need a change and I'd dearly love to see Power react for once.

The system has lead us to ship goals (2+ average a season) - very rarely do teams who win stuff/are promoted do they ship goals as frequently as we do.
One of the biggest ways Lingy made it work was by playing 4 at the back.

How long do you give an inexperienced manager to sort things out?

For me, Tuesday night was the bottom line....more or less everything was in our favour, lovely playing conditions, modest opposition not backed by the turn out they might have had, save for Doughty our full squad as stands for the season. Further a decent start, something we've not managed yet, but that was about as good as it got.

Power needs to accept his punt hasn't worked out...and make a change asap and get in a proper manager. We can't afford to let it drift, it was doing that in 05/06, when Kingy lost 6 in a row that we never recovered from. That 6 in a row is the worst run of consecutive league defeats any STFC manager has managed, tells us that Luke is half way there....

Is JSW not in the squad then?  :hmmm:

So in a roundabout convoluted way are you saying after a run of three defeats WILLIAMS OUT - I think we have our first panic button pressed?

People saying a new manager wouldn't make a difference? Ling turned us from fodder to promotion form almost instantly.

By playing four at the back and thus changing the system?

Think we're all in agreement that 3-5-2 has to go

"Full squad as stands for the season"  clearly JSW doesn't stand atm, let alone run.

No I'm saying on the back of 4 wins in 20, including the now 3 defeats in a row, there's no discernible evidence of progress, in fact the opposite we're getting worse.

I normally try and back a manager, and have nothing personal against Luke, but think it would be best all round including for him, if he went back to his coaching role.

He always seemed reluctant to accept the position in the first place - doesn't seem to like being the front man for the playing side of the club.

He does tend to come out with some mindless drivel in his post match interviews. Don't know what sort of ego he has if he was asked to revert to being coach with a manager back in charge.

Attracting the likes of Lluongo, Byrne, Pritchard, Mason and even Swift seems an age ago now. We carry very little threat nowadays and this lets opponents almost disregard us as an attacking force and they just have to go for it and we crumble meekly.

It's not much fun watching us recently.

We had been playing 4-4-2 under Cooper, and then Power himself for a couple of games.....this mainly out of neccessity with Nathan injured.

When Lingy came in he went 3 at the back, remember he's a disciple of St Glenn, but he could pair Obika and Ajose. We shipped 5 at Fleetwood, so went 4 at the back for the next away game at Chesterfield and won 4-0.....we did have Louis and Ben Gladwin running midfield mind

100% , the standard of players we have at the moment is just not good enough to play the system that Power is trying to implement. In my opinion we have downgraded our options in nearly every area since Power took over it is all very depressing but a harsh reality of what happens when you start to become self sufficient unfortunately the old adage "you get what you pay for" has never been truer in football and the gap is getting bigger every season.

Lee got very lucky while Sherwood was at Spurs but without any mates in the business to do him favours he has run out of ideas.

What's Sherwood doing these days, I imagine just living off the payoff from Spurs and then Villa, he would be the obvious candidate to come in even as a DoF or something? (Actually edit that he was only sacked by Villa on the 25th October last year - seems years ago, so may have been prevented working by some manner of clause in his payoff?)

Yes 12 months

Is that actually fact (or should that be FACT ;)) or just a rumour, would explain why Power hasn't tapped him up as yet even just in an advisory role.

Sherwood would be far too expensive. I expect he'd rather wait around scratching his nuts until the right offer comes in.

Depends what the offer is really, 'Tim mate, best buddy, here's 20% of the club for you to come in and be DoF, we can do something special here together resurrect your managerial career and make a few quid (asset stripping  ;))'

Did you hear him when he was at Spurs/Villa?

He genuinely believes he is the best manager around, massive ego.  He wouldn't come here as he waiting for the Real Madrid

Yeah but we play like Barcelona  ;). I suspect he will re-emerge at a failing 'big' club... Stoke may come up shortly!

PdC is at a loose end atm  :)

I know it won't happen, but Steve Evans is the sort of thing we could do with. Turned down Oldham in the summer when Sheridan left, and as far as I know has nothing since.

Really don't get the clamour over Sherwood in a managerial role.

It's even better because Sherwood is the reason we have this model. He advised Power that there was a gap in the market for young Academy players to be developed and sold on. I'm paraphrasing but there is an early Power interview in which he said so.

In the case of Byrne and Luongo, he was right. I've said before that currently the model must be failing in Power's eyes, not becasue we're shit and on for another relegation struggle, but we've nobody worth selling on.

Yep, we're crying out for a universally despised, convicted criminal known for only getting success on a big budget and falling out with everyone along the way.

I love the way you have entirely accurately referred to Steve Evans as a 'thing'  :D

Not just a big budget, there's the cheating and fraud too, don't forget, integral parts of his "success"

Ironically the one player worth selling has probably been shown by our defensive limitations.......Vigs. I'd say he's comfortably the best keeper in this league now.

Power picks the tactics though. He just decided it would be a laugh to give something else a bash when Ling joined and revert back when he left.