Thetownend.com

The dust has only recently settled after we were celebrating a 3-0 Ashes series win back at the end of August, but that was then and this is now...we've entered Winter, and whilst back to back Ashes series may seem something of an overkill, my buzz is coming back and the 1st test in Brisbane is only 16 days away (21st November), so my anticipation of what's to come starts now (as well as preparing my sleeping pattern for the next 10 weeks or so!!!).

We've already had 1 warm up game, a drawn 3 day match against a Western Australian Chairman's XI in Perth and now we have a 4 day game (shown on Sky) against Australia 'A' in Hobart. Incidentally Australia weren't even in the country while the game was taking place, as they were completing a (losing) ODI tour of India (all be it not many of the expected Ashes squad were there).

There are still a couple of questions for England, who bats where and which of the tall quicks gets the nod, and the team selection for the Australia 'A' game may give its strongest indication yet: Carberry to Open, Root in the middle order at 5 or 6, Ballance gets another go after his 1st baller last week and Tremlett gets the nod ahead of Rankin & Finn. Ian Bell is rested.

The Aussies are yet to name their squad, but expect Mitchell Johnson to return after he bowled pretty well in the ODI series here and in India.

Series Predictions: Is it too early to make one? At present, I fancy England to retain The Ashes but I think the Aussies will run us very close. We won't see 'spinning' pitches that we saw here in the Summer to suit Swanny, I think they'll prepare hard, bouncy wickets for the likes of Johnson, Harris and others to hit the deck. I don't think it will be the same 3-1 scoreline as the 10/11 Ashes series, so I'm going to say 2-1 England.

Here's to a great series ahead, and I look forward to sharing many late nights with you all over the coming weeks!  Hopefully it'll be more celebrations come the end of the Sydney test in January!!! :beers:
 

I've got TMS on for the Australia A game- Carberry opening, Root at 5, Ballance at 6 (Bell rested) and Tremlett as 4th bowler. Curious side.

Time to start changing my sleeping pattern!

I'm looking forward to struggling to stay awake at work

Flying out for Christmas, the Melbourne test and the Sydney test. Fair to say I'm looking forward to this series....

Good day for the openers today. Cook and Carberry both make centuries and England 318-0

Can't fucking wait.

We'll pump them.

Take Harris out and we've got the better seamers by miles anyway.

Nice to wake up to that scoreline this morning! Thought the Aus A bowlers were fodder when I was watching last night, but you still have to score against what is put in front of you! Carberry has to be be favourite now for the 1st test to open, and Root to slot in at 6? Think England will probably bat most, if not all, of Day 2 to give the batsmen some time at the crease.

An encouraging start!

So 1 day of cricket left before the first test and for England only 2 selection issues really remain.

Bairstow made 48 and kept tidily enough so showed a modecum of form if Prior fails to make the first test.

The muckier picture is the battle for the third seamer.

I thought when Tremlett was left out of the latest tour game it was probably a bowl off between Finn and Rankin but with neither having fully grasped their chance it appears Tremlett is in the box seat to snap up the 11th spot at the G!

Finn has taken wickets but has gone for plenty at a fair lick.  But it sounds like in his latest spell he moved the ball and at pace which could be valuable. But England do prefer to go ror the bowl dry option so might over look his wicket taking with Tremlett's ability to keep it tight.

I would pick Finn and attack.  I think England are hoping for Tremlett to magically find his form of the last ashes series down under that we have seen anything close to for 3 years!!!

Agree about Finn, but good 'old Cap'n Cook has a negative outlook and will go for the bowler less likely to leak runs.

Tremlett it is

Pick Finn and just tell him to bowl wheels.

I fucking love it that Mitchell Johnson is the great hope for Aus. I'd be fucking terrified if I was sat at fine leg with that clown bowling.

Loved that first ball of his in the summer which went for 4 wides!

Mind you, Ryan Harris is a real good bowler

but as fragile as Ryan Mason

So am I Digby.  Look out for a town flag

Always sad to see a sporting legend retire, but what a nice send off for Sachin Tendulkar.

(didn't realise this was an Ashes thread, just saw the 'winter cricket thread' title)

We'll allow that. Sachin should have gone a few years ago but you can't blame him for that, I'd carry on until I could no longer stand up if I was that popular, well paid and talented.

None out of three ain't bad.

Great career, will be interesting to see how India reacts. Hope they don't lose interest in Tests altogether.


As for the Ashes, looks like the top 6 are sorted now, Bairstow may need to sub in for Prior for the first test which worries me and the third bowler is a bit up in the air. Could be an interesting series all in all, I think momentum might be quite important as both sides have talent but a bit of fragility.

England 11/10 to win the series with Paddy Power. Massive price. Big stake on.

Does Mitchell Johnson bat for the other side?

He does look mega  :gay:

I think he looks a bit like he has GRID

What is GRID?

One of the least likely answers to Jeopardy you'll hear.

Alternate acronym for AIDS

Gay Related Immune Disease.

That makes that game a whole lot less enjoyable now.

Good luck DMR...not so sure that is a massive price though,bit skinny if you ask me.

Big price in a 2 horse race when we've got a proverbial stone in hand...

Only if the top and middle order batsman are out.

So it's here...The Ashes Down Under officially begins tonight (UK time)...what is everyone's plans for watching it? Personally I'll be up watching the 1st session and then to bed, before waking up at 7.30 to catch the last hour of play! It will be strange not being able to watch it as I was a tax dodging student in 10/11, so late nights weren't an issue!

A good article on the bbc by Simon Hughes on where he believes The Ashes will be won and lost (http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/cricket/24961171).

Major's prediction: A lot has been made of the make up of the sides, I think England will go Cook (c), Carberry, Trott, KP (100th test match), Bell, Root, Prior (wk) (Bairstow if Prior doesn't make it), Broad, Swann, Anderson, Tremlett...lets hope Tremlett picks up where he left off 3 years ago in Australia. Australia on the other hand I think will go Rogers, Warner, Watson, Clarke, Smith, Bailey, Haddin (wk), Johnson, Siddle, Harris, Lyon.

I think we'll see Cook and Trott return to form with the bat, and I'd really like to see The Barmy Army tuck into Mitchell Johnson early, especially as it seems the Aussies have placed a massive importance on him being the difference maker. I think KP will be top run scorer for England, followed closely by Cook, and Anderson will be the top wicket taker.

Selected odds (SkyBet): Series winner - Australia 6/4, Draw 9/2, England 11/10. Most runs - KP 100/30, Cook 11/4, Bell/Trott 4/1. Most Wickets - Anderson 15/8, Broad 11/4, Swann 3/1. Specials: Wide or no ball 1st ball of the series 16/1, Root to take Warner's wicket 50/1 and England to win Ashes 3-1 again 8/1.

Series prediction: Have to go with England to win out there, I think Australia will pose a tougher opposition than 3 years ago over there but England should have enough to bring the urn home once more...England 2-1 Australia!!!

A draw makes it a three horse race betting wise...reckon we will retain the Ashes after a drawn series though believe me i will be cheering your bet on.

My viewing plans are similar to yours, Major.  Will see how it's going after the first session before deciding whether to go to bed. 

Me to,good write up Majors by the way.

Cheers leefer! Just watching The home 2013 series review...blimey The Oval seems a long time ago now! I've 3 mates out there for the first 3 tests, lucky sods! Wicket apparently a road, which means England will need to do a lot better in the 1st innings of the 1st test away from home this time!

As always winning the toss will be a big thing in Australia

Incidentally, as a not too fussed by cricket person, can someone explain why this series series is so bleedin close to the last one?

Scheduled this year so as not to interfere with the World Cup preparation in Australia in '15 I think.

Settling down for 2hrs kip. Alarm set for 11.50pm. Live it.

Never realised it was 31-31 in series, thought they would be well ahead.

Makes sense to me now
 

Okay, I'm up for this now.

Got a few hours sleep after dinner. Plan to watch the first session at least.

Aussies win the toss and will bat then... Prior fit and Tremlett in too.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KRCwWrpEZ1k

let's go.

Not too worried about losing the toss, as should be good for first 3 or so days...early wickets for England is key I think!

Boom, Broad strikes...take some of that you boo-ing Aussie bastads!!!

Stayed up to listen to the coverage and "Unfortunately, due to rights restrictions, this programme is not available in your territory." Yeah, 'cos the BBC got outbid by all those French radio stations to cover the Ashes. The joys of digital. Fuckers.

So how am I supposed to follow the series now?

Worried about the Tremlett choice.

Ball hasn't swung at all, bit of bounce but Warner looking dangerous and need him out!

Morning all. Dog got me up at 88-4.

Good boy!!

Yeah just woke too and saw the score. Very impressive on a good pitch. Have to watch for a while now!

Here we go again!

get in there, Jimmy!

Yay!

Weather could be a problem

heard thunderstorms are forecast for the next couple of days

Love to dick 'em in their fortress in the First Test

http://www.couriermail.com.au/sport/cricket/allan-border-calls-on-aussie-fans-to-give-ashes-nemesis-stuart-broad-the-silent-treatment/story-fnii0bxd-1226764606673

Looks like the silent treatment didn't work then  :hmmm:
The local rag won't name Broad!

Stopped for tea. Decision time - sleep or stay up for last session?

Happy sleep for me.  :)

Damn work. Got up at tea and pleasantly surprised with that score. Shame have to leave for work in a mo. Last session shaping up nicely. Nice to see Broad in the wickets, take that you whingeing aussie barstards.

We need a breakthrough here

Needing the new ball

Fifth wicket of the day for Broad - new ball did the trick

Fairly happy with that TBH, considering our recent record in first Tests, and that we are playing this one in their fortress. 

Less happy about my own 'form', though.  I only managed to watch the first hour (started falling asleep) and the last hour on TV but also listened to the radio commentary for a while in between.  I've become a 'lightweight'!

PS - Thought at one point that Geoffrey Boycott was going to have a seizure when he got so angry with Swann's tactics after the Tea Interval.  What a knob!

England's day for sure, would have been nice to knock them over for less than 200 when they were 132-6 but I'll take 8 wickets for less than 300 on Day 1...Broad bowled very well, and a great way to silence those Aussie bandits! If England can snick the tail early and put runs on the board then we'll control this test match (the word of course being 'IF'). Managed the first session until 2am, feeling surprisingly good at work today!

Game not coming at the right time for me, which means that I have to record the highlights and watch later. Managed to catch first day with only a hint that the Aussies were batting and we were down as far as Haddin.

Can never judge until both sides have batted, but I was surprised at how there didn't appear much playing and missing by the Aussies. Seem to be all thwacking and batsmen getting themselves out - Although there were a couple of jaffas in there.

Hopefully we can polish them off in the morning and discover the wicket is as much of a belter as they kept saying in commentary. Would like to see Carberry get himself in and whack it around with Cook for a 'daddy ton' as Mr Gooch likes to call it.

 Anyone else staying up to watch the morning session of Day 2?  How many overs do you think it will take to get those last two Aussie wickets?  I'm going for 10 overs (but I hope it's only 2 or 3).

Suffered from watching the first day from 1.30 onwards this morning, but I guess I will be here for the second day. I'm back to work Friday night, so won't see the rest of the match. Might as well stay in night shift mode. It really looked like we would bowl them out for under 200 - still happy with the score though

Still need to take the last 2 for under the 300 total, so no more that 10 overs

Hope the Aussies get to at least 350 and make a game of it. Nothing more boring than a one sided Test Match and Test Match series.

Be nice to see them win the first test and apply some pressure on England and Wales.

There is nothing boring about stuffing the Aussies...let's start now.

This

We can complain about it being one-sided when we are 2-0 up

Hopefully we get the final 2 wickets in the first half hour.  If we can then see off the new ball and bat for the rest of the day we will be in a very strong position.

http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2013/nov/21/ashes-pig-brisbane-first-test

And in more important news.

Big first half hour this morning; ideal situation England snick these last 2 out and start batting!

Felt fine at work today on 6 hours sleep; planning same again tonight! Least it's the weekend for days 3-4!

Broad gets his 6th, good start!

Great start, Harris can hang around and be a nuisance...lets hope this is done in the next couple of overs!

Jimmy nearly does a Simon Jones there

Suicidal that! :D

Over to you Mr Cook and Mr Carberry!!! A solid 1st session until lunch will put us on platform for a big score here!

Lucky Pieterson, dropped catch by Siddle

Big, big trouble here, really need to dig in

4 wickets, for 5 runs from 40 balls!  :no:

Got up in time to see last wicket. Bloody awful!

WTF!
Brisbane effect?

Great stuff, we have ourselves a competitive test match. Hopefully the Aussies can put a decent total on. Brilliant start to the series.

Hopefully the Barmy Army kjs can pipe down a bit now.

Do we? Looks to me like the Aussies are tonking us.

Care to make any further comments?

It looks like we have 'under-prepared' yet again, both in terms of tactics and mindset.  Either that or we're just being generous and giving them a one-zip start and lulling them into a false state of security.  ;)

Go to bed after the first session with England going along nicely.  WTF happened?

He's fucking dump and we're better than them.

One swallow doesn't make a summer etc etc

Just our standard awful first test. We always fuck up our first innings with the bat.

Last 5 away test series we have failed to get beyond 200 in the first innings.

That is pathetic, really

This really is an ongoing concern! Yes the bowling was pretty good, but you should know and expect that at test match level. It's really pathetic by every England batsman (I'm talking 1-7) that they haven't sorted this out. IMO 1-0 Australia, we've virtually given them the test match and it's a hole, again, we need to dig ourselves out of...one too many times this time though?!


Same as me Slinky! Not sure I'll watch tonight; we'll see if my mood improves throughout the course of the day!

We've gone into this too arrogant and complacent based on the summer series - which wasn't as easy as the final score suggested.

Never underestimate the Australians, or Germans for that matter (in non cricket sports)

I watched up until tea so here goes .....

While the collapse was shocking it can't have been a huge surprise to anyone. England last 4 or 5 first inning abroad have been poor and in recent years on harder and quicker bouncy pitches England have been found wanting badly such as Perth in the last series.

England didn't pass 400 in the series in the summer and don't look like they will any time soon here.

Johnson was far to hot to handle and the job he did on Trott was even more alarming than the job that was done on Clarke by Broad. Trott was always on the move never still trying to flick and nurdle Johnson which was always going to end badly.  Carberry played well on debut and left the ball particularly well but I think during that middle session Aus managed to totally bottle up the runs and England virtually suffocated.

Even an average spinner like Lyon was able to completely bottle England up and take 2 for nothing! 

A saving grace for England could be the fact the next test is in Adelaide and not Perth. I'd be ordering the groundsman to get some grass on that track pronto.

Good post FCB...As I mentioned on my Twitter page, Trott was all over the place and it was poor from England to allow that last over to be bowled before the lunch break...we all knew what was going to happen! I've never seen Trott so fidgety at the crease during an innings for England. I know he shuffles around a bit, but he was busy as soon as Johnson bowled that first ball at him. How many do we think Aus will lead by? I think they'll bat 2 sessions and get England back in sometime in the evening session with a lead of around 500 (224?? for 0 effectively at the minute!)

I reckon Clarke will look to give England an hour maybe?

If Warner gets in and he can almost to go into one day mode. Cook pushes the field back and with singles available almost at will the scoreboard should tick over easily at around 4+ an over.

The Aussie line up is full of players who score quickly where as a lot of the England players over the last 6 months seem to have slowed down to a complete crawl.

That's mainly because they haven't got many "test" batsmen so have had to pick half their one day side. We're still better than them, we just have to prove it now. Again!

While Warner and Smith as examples may not be traditional test batsmen what they do is at least look to rotate strike and keep the scoreboard moving. England were far too passive just allowing Harris and Siddle to block an end and leaving Johnson free to be used is short sharp burst where wicket taking was the name of the game.

Between lunch and tea England didn't score 40 runs I don't think.

At home England could doctor the pitches and make them low and slow to aid the attritional game. In Aus with harder quicker pitches I don't see the same game plan being anywhere near as effective.

I'm not going to argue that we didn't fuck up because we did but one innings doesn't make us a worse batting line up than the Aussies. I was expecting a tough series as both bowling attacks are decent (including Lyon who can do a job without being dynamic). We won in England because our bowlers out performed theirs.

Losing wickets tends to stem the run flow no matter who you are. If we got out playing shots then they would be labelled "daft" by all and sundry.

And oh it's the Aussies who have doctored their pitches to be hard and fast not the other way round. :-)

I'm not saying the batsmen should try going over the top every other ball.

For example in their short stay Carberry and Cook played well. Didn't hit boundaries but 1's and 2's and got the scoreboard ticking strike rotating and gave the Aus bowlers something different to think about.

It was the hour after lunch where the rot set in. KP was dropped and frustrated at being tied down. Bell and Prior will be disappointed at their dismissals and Roots in the circumstances was a shocker!

Warner I think is key in how many Australia get. Yes Clarke is classy, but if Warner is still there at lunch on Day 3 I think as you say FCB he'll be in 1 day mode! England almost need to do what Australia did, and better, stem the runs, take the wickets and then assess the batting. Another Brisbane rearguard action will definitely be required, whether lighting strikes twice is another story (although think Macclesfield + FA Cup  ;) - Very optimistic shout from me there!)

Fell asleep with us about 20/0 and settling in nicely.

Woke up to the words "And Harris runs in, bowls to Tremlett"

Not a great start to the day that.

Not sure what to expect from watching tonight...I've come round to the idea of watching it, but for how long I don't know! Early wickets will mean I stay up longer; if after 30 mins there's nothing I'll go to bed!

We made 517-1 in the second innings here last time round. I'd take that.

In other news, Test Match Sofa signed off their show last night with this...if this doesn't make you smile you really aren't happy with life!

http://writers.thecricketer.com/MP3/Funeral_March_Scorecard.wav


Rogers out to Broad, WE'RE BACK IN THIS!

Shit gets wickets...Watson out...could we have a chance at getting them out for a low total?!

The manner of Carberry's wicket says it all really.  Really feel for him.  :doh:

Now it's a time for lions, not chihuahuas.  Which will it be? 

Who thinks we'll reach 300+ in this innings?  Cook and Trott aren't filling me with confidence.  That's for sure.

Fuck off, Trott!

#trottsfault

Gutless.  I don't mind losing, but I do expect a contest.

I think the 2nd one SP, and I think less than 150 all out... :(

 :Ride On Fatbury's Lovestick:

Typical England. Spineless.

Oh dear, at least they'll probably get an extra days rest.

"Typical" England? Do you have any idea what you're talking about? That would be the same England who have only lost 2 of their last 17 series, and won the last 3 Ashes on the spin?

Go back to bed you clown

It's always the same with you Dave, if anyone disagrees you have to go offensive.

Its in reference to the over hyped, over confident and arrogant approach that our fans and media have to this series as opposed to the form of the team.

Do I know what I'm talking about? Yep and I don't need to justify myself to you so fuck off you little weasel.

I will reiterate. 2 series losses in nearly 5 years. You are a clown.

I know the form Dave so you don't have to tell me. You are a weasel.

It's all over the press this morning...how the tell tale signs of a decline in form were there in plain view by the end of the summer series, and how (sadly) the present situation is possibly a continuation of that.  Yes, we won the previous series 3-0, but the score does not tell the full story.  There was no swagger.  We just got across the line comfortably against a side that performed poorly.  I understand the point Bewster was making, as I expect others did too.

Dave - calm down a little.  You're too angry.  Not good for you.

The voice of reason as ever Ardiles. Cheers.

Dave does come across angry at times but I have to say I agree totally with his point. It's hardly a typical England performance these days is it?!

I'm hoping its a one off. The press are full of "I told you so's" no doubt. They didn't though!

I agree with a bit of DRS. It isn't the first time in recent memory England first test performance has collapsed in a heap as for Mr Trott. I am beyond words ...

Warner has just called him scared and weak. It's difficult to argue with either right now.

England have got to make a fist of this chase if they get knocked over for 150 again the consequences could be dire.

I fancied making a more general point ... The Aussies took Swamn at 5 an over meaning Broad and Anderson had to almost over work really which in a 5 match series will be suicidal with a 4 man bowling attack. If Swann can't hold an end at around 2.5 or 3 an over then England would have a balance problem and the only real 5th bowling option would be Stokes.

i think you'll find that a first innings total of under 250 has been a typical score over the last few years. They have generally pulled out a rescue act after the collapse.

Also they have tended to struggle on fast pitches.

DMR is right. He's just not got any tact.

This is an excellent point and spot on.

And this is why England are very, very keen for Timmeh Bresnan to be fit.

We'd still be a 4 man attack. Bresnan will replace Tremlett.

Sorry, I wasn't suggesting Bresnan would come in at 6/7, just that he'd offer the control that Swann and Tremlett haven't. Not the biggest wicket taking threat but he does bowl economically, and when Broad is in form that's enough- when Broad isn't in form, you need a Finn type wicket hunter.

Bowling isn't our biggest problem at the moment. Big problem is that the batsman aren't performing. Saying that, when Bresnan comes back he will give us a bit more strength in the batting as well as his ability to tie an end down.

Or money at this rate  :D
Always thought 11/10 was tight  but it could still be a winner.

I found it utterly hilarious  :beers: :beers: :beers: :pint: :pint: :clap:


I might pull out a few nostril hairs in celebration

I'll be going in again at a better price once this fisting is final

If it goes over 2s I'll be piling in I should think.

Well what do we think lies ahead tonight? I think Aus will win by tea on Day 4 personally...this test is a write off and it's a bloody shame IMO! We have some fantastic batsman who haven't applied themselves yet again in the 1st innings. Yes Australia have bowled well but it's pathetic how bad England have become in the 1st test of an away series...stand up and be counted!

Ala Ahmedabad England have to show some fight in defeat. Getting roled again could be disastrous.

More over I want to see England play with more intent against Lyon. I'm not saying go crazy but they can't just sit on the crease and block. Boycott made a good point about how when the England players use their feet it is to bunt the spinners into the stand but they need to look at how Aus and Clarke in particular used his feet to get down the pitch and drive down the ground for singles almost at will.

Useless batsmen like KP? Fucking hell, he'd walk in to every side on earth. Name me a national side that wouldn't take him and I'll name you a liar.

IOB is back on the cricket thread. We must be losing. Now where has that panic button gone?

What concerns me is the people I'm seeing saying we can't play that bad again. The battings been shit for ages, particularly trott and prior, who should both be worried about their place in the squad

Well I can't remember the last time we got bowled out for less than 200 twice in a match. Trotty is a worry but has enough class to pull through. The squad's been picked for this series so I doubt either of them are too worried short term.

Agree Bogus Dave, but the sad thing is from the current squad we only have Bairstow (minimal test experience), Ballance and Stokes (no test experience) waiting to come in who can hold a bat. All be it lower down the order too. I think if England do get beat in this series, and despite the result of the first test and what I've said previous, there are still 4 more tests to go now what remains to be seen is whether we'll see a trouncing by the Aussies or an England fight back...if it's the former I can see changes being made for the future with the likes of Vince at Hampshire, Taylor at Notts and others of that Lions team mould being given a chance in the not so near future if Trott, Prior etc form with the bat doesn't pick up during the series.

Where to begin!

Well that Warner and Bailey are a bunch of cocky twats and both in need of firm kicks in the cunt!

Problems:

I discussed the Swann being unable to hold up an end and pressure that creates on the rest of a 4 man bowling attack problem.  At least now there is a break of 10 days before Adelaide but the 2nd and 3rd, and 4th and 5th tests are back to back.
Trott is all over the place especially against Johnson. England do have a 2 day game but the opposition will be sub standard and that rapid left arm over is tricky to replicate.
Prior .... 150 runs in his last 8 matches at an average of 18!  Since that match saving ton in New Zealand he has struggled to locate the middle of his bat and his second innings dismissal turning the ball straight to leg gully stank of a man so out of form it wasn't funny.
KP/Trott ..... Being caught out hooking in the second innings of a test which you are trying to save is not a good look.
The Tail .... Bringing Bresnan in will strengthen it slightly, however whoever it is will undergo a bumper barrage so intense you cant see them lasting to long.

Within similar and quicker conditions expected in Perth. I think Adelaide is must win for England. However will a low slow pitch expected yes it will negate Johnson but it will be trickier to force a result.

Completely agree, whether it happens is another thing after what the 1st test gave us!

Bailey is a cunt!

Hahahahaha useless like KP. Good one IOB. Keep taking the meds you weirdo.

As bad as we've been in this test it's worth keeping things in perspective and noting that the Australians played exceptionally well from the very first ball on Thursday morning.

England moaning about the sledging and comments from Warner is just going to encourage them further and makes us look ridiculous.

As for KP being 'useless' and 'shite'... of greater concern is Prior's failure since a superb previous winter.

I disagree with the comments that Bresnan might hold an end down where Tremlett didn't. Tremlett had a good economy rate with naturally much of the old ball and played that role reasonably well, especially in the first innings. 

Tremlett's loss of pace however makes him less penetrative and as a result perhaps less likely to take wickets.  I would go for Bresnan, if fit, at Adelaide but wouldn't like to see him breakdown in a 4 man attack.  The Aussie's aren't going to prepare Swann-conducive pitches but his failure to stem the tide of runs or take any wickets  didn't help the cause.

If the top 6 don't sort themselves out however they will be looking for miracles from the bowlers.

I'm no cricket expert at all but from my reading on the subject I thought Adelaide is a decent fit for Swann, and even possibly Panesar?

Perth's going to be even quicker than Brisbane, so 2nd test is huge for England and Wales Cricket Board.

Fantastic start to the series though, fascinating stuff.

Bring Boycott back.

That Yorkshire cunt seems to know everything

Trott's flown home with the Trescothick phrased 'stress related illness'.

That'll cause a lot of cultish things to be said over the next few days. Hope the man makes a full recovery, cricket's record on mental illness is not enviable.

From a completely on field point of view, that fucks our batting order mightily. Need a top order batsman on a plane ASAP, Compton?

I don't think Compton is good enough. I don't think Balance is good enough either. I don't even think Taylor is good enough.

The England batting line up has flattered to deceive for a few years. Trouble is, the potential replacements aren't at a high enough standard.

I agree there's nobody obvious to step in. Flower says no replacement, so Bairstow or Ballance, probably at six with Bell flipping to three.  Ballance is a decent player, not sure he's ready yet but the numbers are there.

I'd go Compton. Straight swap. He's the closest fit to Trott and proper bloody-minded, he'll get stuck in and battle.

Ballance hasn't hit the ball off the square all tour. Bairstow got found by the Windies with the short ball so I should imagine Johnson and Harris would kill him.

The only other option would be to bat Stokes at 7 and hope Prior sorts his life out.

Adelaide will be low and slow rather than a sub continent type rager!

I imagine Bairstow and his test experience might win the day but Stokes would give England a fifth bowler. So obviously it will be Ballance.

I apologize unreservedly for the above post that I made on Saturday morning after watching the way that Trott gave away his wicket, given the position we were in at that time.  I hope he makes a quick recovery to full health.

One Jonny Trott..! Hope he comes back stronger, we could all see something wasn't right in his game these past few series v Aus but put it down to poor form. Such a shame as I'll never forget his knock at The Oval on test debut in 2009 - pretty much won us The Ashes with that ton, along with his 100s in the 2010/11 Ashes series away.

I think Bell or Root will move to 3 and the other will be at 5, that's been the whispers today, with Bairstow or Ballance coming in at 6.

It makes sense now why they took Ballance and left Onions at home. Obviously taking Trott was a gamble that backfired.

Right 2nd Ashes Test match starts tonight, can England bounce back or was Brisbane a sign of things to come in this series?

Since we last met: Well Jonathan Trott has flown home with a stress related illness, good to see both sides wish him well, Michael Clarke fined 20% of his match fee for telling Jimmy Anderson to 'get ready for a broken fucking arm', Australia adamant the sledging won't stop where as England want it to calm down (a meeting happened yesterday between Cook, Clarke and match referee Jeff Crowe), England struggled with the bat again against the Aussie Chairmans XI but performed well with the ball, and my favourite Tim Bresnan has been added to the test squad after he performed well for the England Performance Squad XI - All this in the space of less than 2 weeks! It certainly makes it an interesting series.

Major's prediction: Australia will name the same XI, although I expect Mitchell Johnson to struggle on a slower 'dropped in' wicket, and England will make 2 changes - it looks like Root will move to 3 and I think Gary Ballance will make his test debut at 6, and I think Tim Bresnan will come in for Tremlett. England cannot afford to lose at Adelaide in my opinion and they have a track record of bouncing back the longer the series goes on, but with Perth and another fast/bouncy wicket expected it looks like they'll need to win the 2nd test looking further ahead in the series!

What the bookies say: England are 3/1 to win this test match, Australia at 7/4 and the draw (with bad weather expected throughout the test) at 11/8.

Here we go again...

3/1 on us on a slower pitch is very tempting. We need to win the test, I'd be tempted to bring Panesar in but obviously someone closer to the pitch will make that call.

Think there is a whisper that Stokes is playing.

Stokes and Panesar according to journos, although that's not exactly nailed on. Would be a brave choice but by god are we then reliant on KP, Cook or Bell having a monster game.

Stokes would very much be an interesting choice...Panesar I wouldn't be surprised at, looking at tweets from Michael Vaughan who says the wicket is looking very dry!

If we play Stokes and Panesar, we are extremely weak in the batting.
I reckon bowled out for under 250 both innings and Aus to win by 8 wickets.

Some smart arse on Twitter pointing out that Panesar might be in for his batting- he's got plenty of experience facing bouncers

Looks like Stokes plays - Strauss handing him his 1st test cap! Fair enough, hope he does well! Panesar also looks like he plays based on that selection!

With two spinners and with no recognised 3rd seamer this is a huge toss!

Win it and rack up 500 another collapse would be fatal!!

Aus win toss and bat!

Fuck's sake! Could have done with winning that toss!

Come on lads. About time we got that fat brawling fuck early.

We're doomed!

Road. Draw. Bring on Perth.

Shit shot, fuck off Warner!

174 for 4 at tea. Good session for England that. Wickets for everyone bar Stokes .
Have to leave for work just as they resume play ffs  :crash:

Carbs! What have you done?!

Nice first days play, sets up the test nicely. Game on!

Yeah in the balance. Aussies day but only just I'd say and mainly because of their tail rather than what's on the board.

Just Aussie's day agreed but that was pretty much secured on winning the toss.

First hour tomorrow should be interesting and then, for those of us who get some sleep, what will we wake up to?

Best days for batting suggested to be days 2 and 3 - hopefully we can be batting early afternoon session tomorrow! Getting Clarke out will be key first thing, along with Haddin who has a knack of getting in and hanging around with the tail!

Betfair have England to win at 19/5. At one point during the opening day's play they drifted to 6/1  ???

Today could conceivably shape the rest of the series. Big day. Come on lads. Need to be in control come 7am 

Clarke streaky 1st ball against Panesar, could have been caught on another day!

Australia are coasting here.

If there was any fielder Haddin wanted that to go to, it was Monty!

All Australia here in 1st hour, England's body language looks shocking here! Flat pitch...Australia could get a sizeable 1st innings score. Big effort needed before lunch.

Australia's session there, and all these dropped catches are going to cost us. Aus in control now.

So 570 - 9 dec. preceded by Lyon smashing Swann for 6.

Only 2 results left now

Oh dear.

Bailey dropped on 10. Clarke dropped on 18 and Haddin dropped on 5.

Just cost England a cool 286!! Ouch

England's only big of luck came off the last ball when the Aussies failed to review a shout against Carberry which would have been given out lbw.

What strikes me again is how Aus were able to move the scoreboard on at will where as England plodded along to 35 off 21 overs. Whilst in this situation run rate isn't imperative if England are to get back into the series they do need to play a more aggressive brand of cricket.

Oh dear indeed, England getting totally outplayed here - please, please, pleeeeease show some fight with the bat the next couple of days!

The converse of "catches win matches"

Those drops have certainly cost us any hope of a win and will have given Clarke a lovely margin in which he will feel comfortable to attack rather than contain.

With Captain Cook already back in the Pavilion, I pray that I don't wake up as last time to see him batting again in the morning when I wake up.

Wank.

I've done my bollocks yaaaaay

Fight indeed. When England are good, they are good, but when they are getting beaten they seem to fold like a house of cards. Even a shite aussie team will have two or three fighters.
Where is the England batsman that will stand up and say,
"No,  fcuk you, you aint having my wicket without a fight"

I'm hoping that Carberry can ride his luck like he did in the warm up games and go big again. He can certainly crunch the ball!

Cook looked scared of Johnson in what I saw of the highlights. Also think that Root was desperate to get off strike too!

Whatever is happening in the England dressing room right now, I hope it involves the boys lining up to take turns to kick Root and KP in the head

Gooodbye England, you will never beat us #Belgrade

Everyone hates you

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3BgnbsgnBes

Never forgive the bombing # cowardly western engineered cunts

Fair play to the Aussies for regaining the Ashes. Mitchell Johnson tearing England a new one.

Is this some sort of alternate universe? Prior is a bunny, Johnson is the second coming and England collapse in a heap if someone so much as sneezes in their direction.

Fucking hell. Could be one long tour if someone doesn't step up and soon. Never mind 400, would be fucking nice if we reached 200 occasionally

If that was a deliberate tactic by Broad then he's massive idiot.

Jesus Herbert Chapman Christ.

You can't put your best batsman in at 5 with a debutant at 6, a hollow shell at 7 and a tail that wags once in a blue moon.

Well done Mitchell Johnson,  you sent the middle stump of a number 11 batsman flying. Perfectly reasonable to get in his face.

Classless

This is brilliant.

Mitchell Johnson is my new hero.

Get it right up you CUNTS.

##bye bye Ashes

soapy tit wank, wooooooah, loving it massive

Nothing personal TEF but what a night, just getting over the World Cup draw and now this  :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :beers: :beers: :beers: :beers: :beers: :beers: :I'm a complete mofleakin Deak :I'm a complete mofleakin Deak :I'm a complete mofleakin Deak :I'm a complete mofleakin Deak :I'm a complete mofleakin Deak :bye: :bye: :bye: :pint: :pint: :pint: :pint:

Lovely jubbly  :D :D :D :D

 :beers: :beers: :beers:

What a day and a half  :pint: :pint: :pint: :pint: :pint:

Love that guy with a moustache. He's your nemesis England and does he love it, oh yes he does! Making a mockery of you all. What a quality pantomime villain!

Bye bye, bye bye, England  :I'm a complete mofleakin Deak :I'm a complete mofleakin Deak :I'm a complete mofleakin Deak :I'm a complete mofleakin Deak :beers: :beers: :beers: :beers: :beers: :clap: :clap: :clap: :Ride On Fatbury's Lovestick: :Ride On Fatbury's Lovestick: :Ride On Fatbury's Lovestick: :Ride On Fatbury's Lovestick: :Ride On Fatbury's Lovestick:

Boooo Hooooh, Aussies make nasty comments, that's not darts  :doh: :doh: :doh: :doh: :doh:

Monty Panesaar  :cry: :cry: :cry: :bye: :bye: :bye: :smugfu: :smugfu: :smugfu: :smugfu:


 :Ride On Fatbury's Lovestick: :Ride On Fatbury's Lovestick: :Ride On Fatbury's Lovestick: :Ride On Fatbury's Lovestick: :Ride On Fatbury's Lovestick: :Ride On Fatbury's Lovestick:

Blahhy blah blah

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3BgnbsgnBes

 :pint: :pint: :pint: :pint:

Going to get whitewashed again i reckon. 06/07 all over again.

Just listening to the highlights now. Fucking brilliant  :beers: :beers: :beers: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:

Mitchell Johnson  :beers: :beers: :beers: :beers: :beers: :beers: :beers: :beers: :beers: :beers: :beers: :beers: :beers: :beers: :beers: :beers: :beers: :beers: :beers: :beers: :beers: :beers: :beers: :beers: :beers: :beers: :beers: :beers:

Stick it up 'em Mitchell. This series gets better and better.

someone is happy this morning!

I'm on the beer mate. Did I tell you I snucked into Tynecastle when the Jam Tarts were training and got kicked out of the gound by the then manager. Well I've told you now. Keep drinking  :beers: :beers: :beers: :beers: :beers:

Bollocks, that bloke has been put through the ringer by England fair play to him for giving some back.

Completely brilliant to see the recovery of the man. He bowls to the left... GIRUY barmy army bellends.

Back to the actual cricket, I wonder how long the Aussies will bat for? Another session, get 600+ ahead then 5 sessions to bowl England out again?

If England could dig in there, it'd set up a monumental test at the WACA.

Aussies declare overnight. 530 with rain forecast.

5 years ago England lost to New Zealand in Hamilton, NZ. After that game, England dropped two of the 2005 legends and senior players in Hoggard and Harmison. The former would never play again, the latter would never be a regular. They were replaced by an inconsistent talent and a young kid of 21.

Their names were James Anderson and Stuart Broad. Not a bad decision in hindsight.

I wonder if we'll do anything that radical? Is it just easier to drop a bowler? Certainly seems far more frequent. Prior looks like he needs to come out of the firing line, although Bairstow isn't a Test keeper. Get Steve Davies on a plane.

Cook hooks and is caught at long leg 1/1. Captain's innings.

I shouldn't have bothered making coffee

As Vaughan's just said, something is very wrong. KP occasionally plays a daft shot on 1. Cook does not.

At least Dosser will be happy.

Unbelievable

Australia to win 5-0 still available at 5/1

Terrible odds, you'd have to be mr pessimistic to take that bet at the moment.

I can only assume the England boys are on the wind up

Get back to your tools Carbs you cunt

His tools? What?

I never understand your posts other than the sweary bits

I could live with a bad performance in Brisbane but this takes it to another level. Some of these players shouldnt play for England again and Cook should be stripped of the captaincy if we lose this series. This performance has been beyond a joke.

Safe bet that with Perth up next and our dismal clown batting shows.

Put your house on it then :)

We'll draw the series 2-2. A heroic draw in Perth and two easy wins follow.

David Warner discovers his love for poetry and leaves cricket.

Fucks sake, what a reactionary bullshit attitude. You should get a job with Sky or Talksport, chill out and take the game as it comes.

You win some, you lose some.

Spot on Jan. Reality check!

Least we seem to have showed a bit of fight today. Need to get a foothold in this series. We're better than what we've seen so far that's for sure.

Oh and let's hope it pisses down.

He's an electrician.

 :doh: is all I will say for now!

May as well start it off now... what team would people select for the next test? I try not to post opinions in here for fear of being mocked by DMR, Boeta and others but I'd go for:

Cook, Carberry, Root, KP, Bell, Ballance, Prior/Bairstow*, Broad, Swann, Anderson, Finn

*depending on how Prior plays, I didn't see any of his innings so far but if it seems like he's returning to some form then persevere with him otherwise take him out of the firing line

We showed a bit more fight last night and looked far more respectable as a result. I'd like to think that it's a sign of better things to come...

Hmmm tough one SY, but imagine Perth will be quicker and bouncier than Adelaide so I'd bring Steve Finn in for Monty. We know he goes around the park a bit, but he takes wickets and bowls 90mph...he's the only quick bowler we have the rivals Mitchell Johnson, as for the rest of the team I'd go Cook, Carberry, Root, KP, Bell, Ballance, Prior, Broad, Swann, Finn, Anderson.

There's no way Captain Cook will be left out - no matter how poor his form is.

If you meant my post, that was a typo, although it would be useful to clone Bell

I think a slight change will be needed for the Mitchell Johnson song :

He bowls it to the left,
He bowls it to the right,
When Mitchell Johnson bowls it straight,
The England batting goes to shite !!

Not with that many syllables

Right here we go again tonight, will it be another test of pure Aussie dominance and in doing so reclaiming The Ashes for the first time since 06/07 OR will England make good on their promise to shake things up and come out fighting? They couldn't have picked a harder ground to do it at: Perth. Winning only 1 test match their, and even that was against a below par Aussie side in 79/80 (top Aussies were playing for Packer in the 'World Series').

It's anyone's guess what England turns up, but the likes of Cook, KP, Bell and Prior have to score runs if England are to have a chance, along with Joe Root at 3 and whoever bats at 6. Big rumours on the net suggest Ballance will come in, but don't count out Jonny Bairstow returning after scoring a 100 for the EPP.

My team: Cook (c), Carberry, Root, KP, Bell, Ballance, Prior, Broad, Swann, Finn, Anderson.

What the bookies say: SkyBet have England at 5/2 to win, Australia (expected favourites) at 4/6 with the draw at 9/2.

Major Prediction: Expect a shock...whether that's England winning and getting themselves back in the series, or the Aussies completing a dramatic turn around from the Summer here to go 3-0 up and win The Ashes.

I'll be swapping my sleep pattern around with the start time of 2.30am in Perth, I'll wake up at 6.30 to watch the final session.

Appetite coming back but as Fergie might have said "Perth, bloody hell!"

Good tip about getting up early for the final session.

Opening session on the sofa at  2.30 would be a nightmare.

116 for 3 as I type. Slow over rate despite swann operating very early on day one but its paid off. Warner is playing well but Skith looks like he is ready to give his wicket away v the seamers. Oh well off to work . 121 for 3 now

Woke up to 164-5

excellent!

265-5.  Not looking so good now.  A very similar Aus 1st innings as the first test.  Hope this one doesn't go the same way!

Knock them over for 320, go big 450-500 and we're in. Come on lads.

I appreciate the 450-500 part will be difficult with our bunch of clowns.

We're still in this. We've lost three pretty big tosses in a row, which is a bit shit.

At 140odd-5 we had them on the ropes again, but Smith/Haddin and now Smith/Johnson appear to be taking Aus towards 400. Woke up at 7am to watch, was pitch black but by time I left for work at 8.45 it was light...incidentally the last ball was the Haddin wicket. Looking forward to seeing if England can bat and get themselves in with a chance of winning the game! btw Cook is a useless tosser!

Not sure why Cook is a useless tosser? Think he is the best batsman in the team. Not a great captain, but then he doesn't have a lot of options around him.

Surprised not to see Finn, Rankin or Tremlett playing. Think Perth is the only place I would consider them all seriously.

Who would I have dropped for them? Well, for me, Broad & Stokes should be fighting for the all rounder spot. On current form, I would take Stokes in that position.  Swann & Anderson shouldn't be immune to being left out. Neither has bowled particularly well. At Perth I think I might have rested Swann (I know he took 2 wickets!). Bresnan is a negative choice. Workhorse bowler who can (allegedly) bat. But I think we need to take 20 wickets. Bressie aint gonna do that.

I think it was a reference to heads or tails...

I'd also interpret your post to imply that you are advocating dropping Broad. In which case, you are mental.

Hmmm ... Where to start ...

Id have gone Finn instead of Bres but no surprise England opted to strengthen the tail.

The pace is an issue. On wickets that do nothing you need an X factor. I hope England take note here. This is a bang average Aussie side and well .... England aren't much better. In fact really the standard of test cricket isn't very good at all ATM.

Watching Smith and Johnson was like watching Prior/Broad/Swann a while back when they come in and take games away from the opposition and for England to totals of 400+

I think Prior has to bat above Stokes.

I also find it utterly bizarre that neither Finn, Tremlett or Rankin played in this EPP game that Ballance and Bairstow played in. A terrific chance to give them some time in the middle up the swanny. Leads me to believe we won't be seeing them again this tour and if we do how unfair on Finn or Rankin who wouldn't have had any middle time for the best part of a month.

The problem isn't the bowlers. Even if the Aussies were bundled out for 250-300 we look so fragile batting anything above 200 heaps pressure on the batsmen.

It's like role reversal in the Ashes.

Can see a number of players having their last hurrah on this tour

Not the major concern but a concern nonetheless.

In all 3 tests England have had the Aussies 4/5 down relatively cheaply but have been unable to force home the advantage.

Wanky catching explains that!

We've hammered them in all other departments, eh!

Lets hope we can get back into it with a win,could be a bit tasty as well

Did you watch 'The Verdict' tonight?

What they said is that England don't have a bowler with 'X Factor'. The bowlers they picked were all very samey. They also talked about 'grouping' and the fact that Broad was lucky not to have sore toes from pitching it so short. Also, what Saker intimated was that they should have selected from the 3 giants - but if the bowlers selected had done what they were told they would have done better. What they also discussed was that Anderson has been ineffective for a while and that Swann's effectiveness is diminishing.

That was what I was trying to get across in my post. So, if I am mental, then so are all the pundits on Sky 2 ! (Maybe not the best of people to compare against admittedly ! :-) )

I think we've thoroughly wiped the floor with them in the wild hooking, comedic collapses and forlorn looks categories :)

unlucky for Root but it was bloody close so can't blame the umpire. Cook and Peiterson, time to turn this series around now boys.

That turned out to be wishful thinking.

KP really is a jerk, sometimes. Almost out in the previous over to Johnson and then goes and plays the exact shot against Siddle and gets caught.

Numbnut

Hmm. Good opportunity for Stokes, to be positive.

Wish we would bin off KP. He's a fucking useless idiot. Has been for a long time now. Once again it's left to Bell to dig us out of the shite. At least the convicts didnt reach 400 this time. Only positive i can think of right now.

One more positive than you can usually think of so that's nice.

Very very slow batting. Only will be positive IF we can survive the last 20 minutes. 

You did make a good point about losing 3 tosses on the trot.  It may have helped to have had the opportunity at least to set the tone and put a bit of pressure on the Aussies

Wild pulling and forlorn looks now and the comedic collapse still a possibility.  Our score is still better thatn how the Aussies had started, so let's see.

Difference is that they have a tail, while we don't.  Sadly.

Trouble is he probably still less of a fucking useless idiot than the competition. 

We probably need to send some more scouts out to South Africa.

Yep, really fucking useless:

overall average: 47.66
v Australia: 46.13   
in Australia: 48.50
year 2011: 73.10
year 2012: 43.87
year 2013: 32.94

He's had a shit year. So have most of our batsmen. (http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/stats/index.html?class=1;filter=advanced;orderby=runs;spanmax1=31+Dec+2013;spanmin1=01+Jan+2013;spanval1=span;team=1;template=results;type=batting)

It's lucky we can select from such a big pool of experienced, talented batsmen with a proven record.

Think it was an awful decision by the umpire. You are supposed to give the benefit of doubt to the batsman. I couldn't see a deflection and I couldn't hear a noise. I know there was a noise on snicko, but that seemed after the ball had gone past and not the same sort of profile as an edge noise.

Big innings this now for England - could go one way or the other now - 180-4, with Bell and Stokes in. I think Bell has to score the ton in a similar way to what Steve Smith did for Aus, and get the lower order/tail to bat with him. Hopefully we can at least match the Aus score. I thought Carbs/Cook were going nicely, Joe Root to me looked unlucky but hey-ho and KP well gave it away...now's the time for a fightback boys!

Don't know why, but I honestly think we will get past the 385 today.

Just as I was convinced we'd win 3-1 today ...... DOH!

England's scoring rates in the series have gone to pot!!

Only got 180 and there's a new ball due in 10 overs. If the Aussies nip a couple out before that we have all seem what Johnson can do to the tail.

How on earth on a non spinning deck Lyon is allowed to get away with going at 2 an over!!

Definite lack of confidence and so frustrating/boring to watch. In comparison, the Aussies are oozing confidence, shown by the fact they were well up and around the 4 an over mark for much of the 1st day!

Am so glad not had the opportunity to watch a lot of this series live, we lose 6 wickets for 70 odd and the aussies pile on 123 for no loss with Warner scoring at nearly a run a ball.
Broad not bowling ?

Oh well off to work and will avoid the highlights later

Edit

Broad hit on the foot by MJ when out lbw and off to hospital for an xray

Just gets better

Officially more embarrassing than 06/07. At least we were just outclassed that time.

I was there to see us outclassed in Sydney :-[

It's times like this when I'm glad that I know fuck all about cricket.

Well, that's the Ashes gone and another landslide victory on the cards for the Aussies.

Interesting to see what England do for the remaining matches. I would like to see some of the fringe members of the squad given a go to give them some international experience.

Rest Broad's foot and brink in Finn, Tremlett or Rankin. If Anderson wants a rest, let him have one too.

Prior's keeping looked pretty poor today. Added with his batting, I wouldn't be adverse to bringing in Bairstow - Although I don't think he keeping is good enough.

I'd also consider giving Ballance a game at the expense of Pietersen. Not because he is better, but more in order to see how he does at international level.

Whats the worst that can happen? We could get thoroughly dicked like we have in the rest of the series!

Dropping players to rest them for 2 matches in a 5 match series because we've lost it is pathetic. It's insulting. Losing 3-2, 3-1 or even 3-0 is nowhere near as bad as losing 5-0 because we've given up and are treating the next two tests as trial matches for fringe players.

What a complete fucking embarrassment this England team have become! No fight, guts or resistance. Outbowled, outbatted and outplayed. Only 3 test matches in and it looks like The Ashes will be lost tonight or failing that tomorrow. I just can't see England batting for effectively 5 sessions (Aussies will probably bat until lunch to take the lead to 450+, not that they'll need it) to 'save' the test match. I was quite confident of a series victory less than 3 weeks ago, but this is far worse than the 06/07 series. Some of those players need to take a long, hard look at themselves! Feel sorry for the fans as this is only going to get worse and worse! (Apologies on the rant/glum outlook)

The 'Barmy Army' - self proclaimed saviours of Test Match cricket - are the one bunch of people I have no sympathy for at all. Never met such an irritating bunch of boring bellends in all my days, although in fairness I've never met the England 'band', that could be a close run thing.  Thinking about it I've not been to Hull either so they could easily take the no1 slot here.

As for the non-Barmy Army cricket loving followers again they've seen enough success in the last few years to withstand this battering, it's what sport's all about.

OK. Fair point. Lets do what the Aussies did then. They were dominant for a decade or so but then their team all retired at the same time, which left them in the doldrums for the next decade. Its only the fact that they are beating a team on the decline that is making them look good.

Its really sad when top players come to the end of the road, I remember it well with heroes such as Boycott, Gooch, Willis, Botham, Knott and Gower. But, unfortunately time marches on and you have to have a decent succession plan in any team. At the moment, I don't see too many players knocking on the door.

Time to build around Cook and Root methinks. Not necessarily with wholesale changes, but we have to blood some more batsmen and find an X factor bowler.

Watson is absolutely on one. And he's dump. Dear oh dear.

134 in 17 overs. What the fuck?

England 0 for 1  :clap: :D :D :D :D
This is so embarrassing it's hillarious

Australia absolutely hammering 7 shades of shit out of England.

Talk about revenge is sweet for the Ozzies. This is carnage

Test cricket has its plusses, but surely the length of the series in a series like this has to be a weakness.  Yes, it is carnage.  And there is very little prospect of the rest of the series being any different.  It's like having a boxer out on his feet and the ref telling him 'OK, son, only a few more weeks of this now.  We'll think about calling an end to it some time in the New Year.'  At least in football you can walk away after 90 mins if your team is getting battered.

Ahead of the next test series, absolutely. During an Ashes tour in which we've been demolished and humiliated in every way possible? Not the right time to start blooding youth.

Fortunately we don't have another Test match until June.

253 more runs to win...Yeah right! Ben Stokes batting dreamy, the kid has a big future in test match cricket and deserves to go on and get 3 figures.

Now you're talking...I'm really looking forward to the Indians being here in the summer. 

As I said previously, I've had no interest in this Ashes, it shouldn't have been played for another year...the one good thing about such a mistimed series though, is it's very easy to take no notice.

Forget about the wickets being down...then 253 sounds gettable :D

We'll chase it piece of piss!

It's a dead rubber now and we are once again playing "friendlies".

Winning the Sydney or Melbourne Test wouldn't change anything now.

If they followed Paolo's Samurai code, there's still a chance they could earn a little respect.  I'd exclude Stokes and possibly Carbs.

Shame we didn't have a couple of extra wickets...i would fancy us with that outfield

3 down and I'd fancy us to at least keep the series alive with a draw, shame there's 5 down! Was hosting an 'MCG Boxing Day BBQ' at mine - not sure if I'll still go ahead with it or cancel it!

Class

... at 3 o'clock in the morning?

That's correct RedRag, get some shrimp on the barbie so to speak at a ridiculous hour followed by a fry up during the last session! I'll probably still do it - daft idea, but could be fun to do - just a shame it'll probably be 3-0 to the Aussies by then and the series will be over!

Oi Oi Ben Stokes!

Oh, for a couple of the other batsmen to have some bollocks and we'd win this.

328-6 - 176 more!

It is 3-0 now and Stokes has shown the others way

I guess lunchtime at after the first session at about say 2am would be ideal in fact.

Daft idea?  You're right!

At last a silver lining emerges in the shape of Stokes. Unfortunately there's quite a lot of cloud.

Two games left, not truly dead rubbers as avoiding 5-0 is very important but experimentation likely- Broad may not play because of his foot, Rankin or Finn deserve a game, and is Ballance for Pietersen out of the question? Probably but an interesting decision to make.

I've decided despite the humiliating scoreline that it will still be going ahead! Stokes extremely well played in that, and a shame we didn't have 2 more senior players stand up, score runs and we'd have been in with a shout at firstly, drawing the test match and secondly, having a chance to win it! 2 big tests still to play - avoiding a 5-0 thrashing - but I imagine we'll see some changes. Who knows, fresh blood may do England the world of good, it can hardly get much worse except the scoreline front! I'd really like to see Steve Finn play in one of these last two tests!

The most disappointing thing about that debacle was this Aussie team are bang average!

They will return in 18 months to defend the Ashes here and England should get them back. When they do return there will probably be no Rogers, Harris, Haddin and to an extent both teams will have gone through re modelling.

England need to look into playing a more aggressive brand of cricket.  This one dimensional dry cricket has been taken apart and some.  The thing is England will go into a home series with SL and India which they will win both easily and I worry that batsmen will fill there boots and in more helpful conditions Broad/Anderson/Bresnan will revert to type helped by more helpful conditions and effectively just paper over cracks!

The Aussies go to South Africa for a 3 test series in Feb/Mar and they will get turned over and some. In many ways it underlines how poor test cricket is at the moment.  After South Africa there are some right bang average sides out there.

Bit bored of the way the media over react to off the cuff comments on fb. Not Graham Swann's biggest fan but what he said (comparing losing the ashes to be done up the chuffer) is hardly crime of the century. Move on, nothing to see here.

They were dumb comments to make and he should know better but he's apologised so time to move on.

Yeah the media is so appalled by the offensive comments that they all reprinted them, taking the viewership from 300 to 5 million.

Greame Swann retires with immediate effect so not available for last 2 tests.
Planned to retire at end of series apparently

I guess that it had been decided that he would be left out for the Boxing Day test and has therefore been given the opportunity to leave on his own terms.

Must admit that I didn't see that one coming.

From what just saw on SSN the ECB were last to know and were expecting it end of the tour. Swann himself said if there had been a chance of saving or winning the ashes in the last test he would have played.
Guess that starts the hunt early for a new spinner as cant see monty as the long term replacement

Great bowler...and we've nothing around as good as him. Nevertheless, it took him some years to work it out, so we had Richard Dawson and Martin Ball kicking about.

Think we have to go withn Monty...of the young guns Ravi Patel at Middlesex shows promise.

We're in for one of those periods when loads get a game, because they deserve a chance rather than they're any good.

I'm stunned.

Pick Scott Borthwick.

Shit. Don't think any of the young guys are ready, Panesar for 18 months or so I think.

We're really going to miss Swann.

Borthwick, like Rashid has worked last season on becoming a batsman who bowls a bit. 

Kerrigan, if not mentally scarred by The Oval, will be looked at again.  I like Tredders, but he barely got a first class wicket last season.  I've mentioned Rayner before as one maybe maturing.

Complete shock to me, a great bowler for England taking 250+ wickets in 60odd test matches and as Michael Vaughan said, probably the hardest player for England to replace over last 20 years. Batsman/Bowlers come and go, but specialist spinners are hard to find (Look at Aus/Warne when he retired - they're still looking. Lyon isn't a Warne or even a Swann in my opinion, but he's outbowled our spinners this series). Panesar gets the nod from me until the end of the series, see if he takes a few wickets and makes the spinners spot his own. I liked the look of Ollie Rayner last year as well Reg, Kerrigan probably needs a year or 2 before he returns to the test match stage and Borthwick has become a batsman who can bowl (similar to Steve Smith for Aus). No mention of Danny Briggs anywhere online this morning? He could have some potential but if I remember struggled to make the championship side last season? Big decision to be made going forward! I don't think Swann will be the last name to retire/leave during this series.

Great player for England of the last few years - however this is not the way to go...goes to show you never know a sportsman`s real personality from the short interviews you see on the TV or in the papers....reckon it is totally selfish and not in the spirit of the team especially in the position they are in....strange how nobody ever retires when leading in the series......what a way to be remembered - best spinner England have had for years - throwing in the towel half way through an overseas tour because we were losing - Cheers Graham  :pint:

More or less pre Swann, we had the King of Spain, who was a steady bowler, but it worked as Flintoff allowed it to be 4 quicks. Giles could keep it tight and get a few wickets....Stokes just might enable a return to that strategy, with Monty in place. The old Wheelie Bin could bat a bit though which is a help in your spinner....

Swann had a chronic elbow injury that required surgery earlier in the year and required constant management. I don't think he felt he was as effective as he could have been.

Timing will always raise questions but I feel that he owes us very little really.

I have a feeling he won't be the last England player to retire in the next few weeks.

I think that this is probably right. Bowing out with 2 games to go sounds more selfless than selfish to me.

As for who will be his successor: I think that it has been touched upon earlier, but the King of Spain was a defensive bowler and someone to bring on to dry up runs and rattle through a few overs. Swann was used as an attacking wicket taker.

I think you modify your strategy to suit your available options. If its not a big turner, I wouldn't be surprised to see England bolster the batting with Ballance instead of playing Swann in the next test. Then they can rely on Root and Pietersen for a spin option. Maybe Prior will then make way for Bairstow, but I doubt it.

I think that battling to get your team back to respectability is incredibly selfless, it's like all those players who turn out in a team of eight so that they don't let their mates down, sometimes you just have to do what you can.  If they can get a couple of draws it won't be disastrous, as tours go, if we lose 5 - 0 with Trott going, Swann retiring it turns into one of the worst for a long time, it looks like a shambles.

Just met up with a couple of mates who got back from Aus on Thursday (they watched the first 3 tests - said there was no coverage over there until the Aussies went 1-0 up, then it went a bit mental!) and said they'd heard Boyd Rankin will be given a chance before the series is out. Finn must really be out of confidence!

Finny's not been the same bowler since they bought in 'the Finn' rule, and he's changed his run-up to try and stop hitting the stumps.

Borthwick and Tredwell added to ashes squad for last 2 tests.

England need to get another 2 years out of Panesar because that spin cupboard really does look frighteningly bare.

Agree about Monty but he's as close as any team is going to get to a decent replacement for a player who not that long ago was the best spinner in the world. No team is going to be able to replace that overnight. To say the spin cupboard is bare is a bit mental as there seems to be quite a few coming through from what I can gather. Yes none of them are anywhere near the finished article but who is without playing a test?!

What are the chance of Swann appearing in the IPL anytime soon ??  ;D

He'd have a ready answer, I'm sure

Who can forget that it was Swanny who when charged with drink driving (begore getting off) came up with the excuse that he had been on a mercy dash to buy a screwdriver to loosen a floorboard fixing to free his cat who had become trapped beneath the floor?

A short-ish test career and he has surpassed all England's spinners bar Derek Underwood in terms of test wickets taken, so too damned right, he WILL be difficult to replace but there are a number of interesting possibilities.

On a separate note, I think England has shown itself a little weak mentally and have indeed been to ready to see themselves as world beaters for winning the Ashes against an Australian team in transition. 

A dedicated team would not see winning the Ashes as bigger than India or South Africa (regardless of the special Ashes atmosphere) and for me the Nasser Hussain legacy and some talented individuals have contributed more to England's success than the likes of Strauss or Cook or even Vaughan as captains.

If anyone has dipped into South Africa against India they will have seen a fantastic test match with South Africa just 8 runs short of a record winning total in a second innings

You'd have seen the Saffas need 16 off 13 balls at one stage, for a world record, and then shut up shop with 3 wickets in hand. That's more of an embarrassment than any of the tripe England have produced this winter.

Standard SA bottle.

Of course The Ashes is the pinnacle for both us and the Aussies.

Yeah, I enjoy Tests against all the cricketing nations - but The Ashes is different altogether.

And how you can think England are not dedicated when we won 3 Ashes series in a row (prior to this one).

Continuous England Test matches is taking its toll on the players and there is far too much cricket played when you throw in all the limited overs games.

We will come again!

I think you're right about the volume of matches.

Having said that it seems a long gap till boxing day.  Can't wait to get back at 'em.

Bairstow, Rankin and Panesar rumoured to be playing tonight. Bairstow taking the gloves. Not sure I'm comfortable with that but perhaps his keeping has been coming on while England have been taking him around the world to carry drinks.

I'm a bi hammered already - so fuck them a.l

Don't mind about Bairstow - he's dump but so is Prior - but Boyd Rankin is fucking shit!

Is this shit still going on?

Trescothick said he was the best quick in County Cricket and he's a decent judge, and he's done alright in the one day stuff. Not like any of our other bowlers are pulling up trees bar Broad who's 50:50 to play so give him a go.

Plus it might get Bresnan out of the team and you don't like him much either.

Which means Tresco has ignored Onions, which means he's wrong.

In fairness I think the quote was from when Onions hadn't played for two years as his back essentially had to be surgically rebuilt. I'd agree that Onions should be on this tour though.

Happy enough with the changes - I like Bairstow and he deserves a go - he can't be much worse than what Prior's current form is so fair play! Please, please, please Santa as an extra pressie...can we win this one?!?!

Bairstow cant be any worse than Prior. England need to give him a go for a few games and see if he is up to it and if not look to someone else in the summer.

67-1 at present, Carberry looking alright and Root is hanging in there although Siddle is giving him problems. Bit of grit being shown which is progress

Don't rate Carbs at all I'm afraid.

Grinding away admirably as he has done all series - but that's the problem. It looks like it takes absolutely everything he's got to muster up 40 or 50. Not quite enough class

I like Carbs, he's having a good series compared to a lot of our batsmen...needs a big score though!

Happy enough at lunch, will watch the next session and hopefully not too many will fall (Root looks very scratchy - needs a few boundaries and he'll be away)

Ryan Harris bowling really well - could have easily been one of the leading wicket takers in the world had it not been for injuries/wrong side of 30.

One of our number, Frigby Daser, was at the MCG today.  'Buzzing' would be a fair description of the messages that were coming through.  And a crowd of 91,000 for day 1 of a cricket match...you have to be impressed with that, don't you?

Be difficult to make Brentford for 12.30 won't it?

Bairstow running away to square leg against Johnson! Absolutely farcical. Get rid.

What's your team DMR? We have to field 11 players, you've dropped everyone and their replacements. It's easy enough to say everyone is shit, and we clearly don't have 11 world class players at the moment but we need to field the best we can. I don't believe that's Bairstow either but clearly management rate him. There aren't hundreds of quality players in County Cricket who are being kept out of the team, there's a lot like Carberry who are quite good but probably not international standard, and a few who might get there in time. We've already lost Swann, Trott and Prior in a series, there's only so much change that can happen at once.

Cook, Compton, Root, KP, Bell, Stokes, Prior (or Butler), Broad, Anderson, Finn. Couldn't give a toss who they pick as a spinner as nobody is top drawer. Probably go Monty for the time being but I'd like to see Borthwick get a go soon, get him and Root bowling 10 a day each and maybe even a bit of KP.

Wouldn't differ too much. Big fan of Compton but suffers from similar problem as Carberry in getting bogged down not scoring. Marginally better in my view but clearly Compton didn't fit in with the England set up for some reason.

I'd give Davies a go with the gloves, Buttler was frankly poor in FC cricket for Somerset. Prior is the best option but is horribly out of form- same thing with Finn for third seamer, England seem to be fucking him up like they did with Anderson early in his career.

Think Bell at 3, Root at 5 is better for balance but there you go.

A key first half hour at the MCG for me tonight...we could be blown away for less than 250 but keep KP and Bresnan in, and we COULD get up to 300+. We're due some luck so hopefully we can get past and bat for the session! Here's hoping anyway!

Good start!

 :facepalm:

I've got so much time for KP trying to murder Johnson like a county trundler. The fact he missed it is almost irrelevant.

I question what the fuck these tail Enders do in the nets or get told by the coaches. Is ducking the short stuff not an option instead of waving their gloves around like a Mumbai traffic cop?

Warne needs muting

250 up..........

255 all out. That didnt last long.
Need some quick aussie wickets now

66/3 decent start, Anderson bowling well but Bres looks as threatening as a Labradoodle.

Didn't expect to wake up to that.

Finally won a days play! Need to pick Lyon up early then stick on at least 300. Need to prove we're not as bad as we've looked so far.

Great score to wake up to, and the Labradoodle took 2-24 so fair play. Sounds like both his wickets were batsman errors but he does usually bowl economically enough to cause them.

In other news, I could watch this all day: Brett Lee bowling an over at Piers Morgan. http://www.cricket.com.au/video/Piers-shown-no-mercy-from-Lee

I guess its because I'm not much of a cricket fan, but to me these last two games are a bit like the World Cup third place playoff or Rugby League. Largely irrelevant.

Would be good not to be whitewashed I suppose.

Totally shocked at the score when I woke up - who knows, get the last wicket early with a lead of 70+, bang out the normal 250ao and 325 would be a bit of an ask on a wear and tear drop in pitch!

England have a 51 run first innings lead. Do not adjust your sets.

Now, let's drive home the advantage. 300 runs today and we're laughing. 250 as long as we have a few wickets in hand.

Time for some proper runs Carbs you goat

Cook's just passed 8000 test runs, youngest to that milestone- three weeks younger than Tendulkar. Decent. Batting very decently at the moment too, looks several leagues ahead of Carberry but both still there.

Cook not letting the spinner settle. About time that tactic employed.
Carbs slow scoring
Looks a steady start
Might be worth having a real late one tonight

I'm sat at my PC (no sky) playing Mahjong and watching the scorecard alternately

Good to see Cooky opening up a bit

Both openers have now faced 35 balls.

Cook has 35. Carberry has 1.

Interesting contrast.

Carbs 1* of 40 odd nuts. And KP gets slated. Hilarious.

I was once involved in a 50 partnership in which I scored one run.

Admittedly I play third team village cricket and not opening up in tests, but there you go.

The sign of a good opener - the other guy is making the strokes, and he is keeping one end

I think together they are going at 4 an over

No, it's putting all the pressure on one man. Not the sign of a good opener at all

Certainly not my view

Cook isn't scoring just because Carberry isn't !

Cook has hit a bit of form, and Carberry has seen that he can play second fiddle untill things change

Tis ok Carbs crawling along as long as Cook isnt
IF Cook gets out I dont think he can up the rate playing as he is.

Dont think he is adding pressure to Cook tho but may well do to the next one in

Cook gone for 51 to MJ lbw so now Carbs needs to up his game with Root coming in.
65 for 1

Root given out caught behind to Johnson but overturned on review
Phew close call that but no hotspot and nothing on snicko so god knows what umpiresawor h

Edit

65 for 1 to 87 for 4 ffs
1 run for 3 wickets in.6 balls
Carberry went lbw. Root ran out by Johnson then Bell out golden duck caught by Johnson
Can't keep.him out the game

174-8. If Aussies can restrict them to 200 it will make for an interesting chase.

179 all out. Going to be a good chase.

Well that optimism was short lived

Normal service resumed.  :badmood:

Eh, that's a decent chase. Should have been much, much more but it would be the biggest fourth innins chase here by 60 runs or so.

That was absolutely awful!

- England's bowling at the end of the Aussie's 1st innings was shameful.
- The only batsmen to come out of the match with any credit are Cook and Pietersen (both of whom look out of touch)

Not to be too pessimistic, however that was a very depressing days' cricket that outlined how far we have fallen in 12-18 months. KP looked visibly pissed off when he came out to field this evening, clearly unimpressed with the contributions made by others, including the senior pros in the side.

We had to bat for the rest of the day - not only for runs but to allow respite for our bowlers who had put us in a dominant position - but we looked inept and defensive in our approach. Carberry hung around and was stagnant, even with captain cook at his side - yet there was no alteration in his approach until after lunch when Flower/Gooch must've been in his ear. If your captain, who has scored 8000 test runs, can't offer reasonable advice what chance have the rest of the side got?! Cook is a fantastic player but he must have seen how dominant the Aussies were over Carberry.

Root hasn't convinced (up his own arse/believes his own hype), neither has Bairstow whilst I do think Bresnan has been rushed back. Stokes reminds me of a batting all rounder version of Freddie and has shown the quality to become a better player in time, but as with Flintoff it took time.

Personally, I don't think there is the strength in depth in English cricket to warrant the hype and bluster that surrounds the team. Players who have recently stepped up (Root/Carberry/Bairstow) have been found wanting whilst for the majority of time the senior members haven't made contributions that we expect.

This may sound knee jerk from today's play, however the writing was on the wall this summer, even against the kiwi's. The performances in this series have been atrocious and it can't be expected that the public will accept this. I hope Flower commits long term, yet this is increasingly unlikely, which in a way may offer a clean slate from which we can build in the future. The side will need to evolve over the next 18 months if we are to have a realistic chance in the home ashes series, or it may be longer than 8 years that we held them before we have them back again.

N.B. This isn't a Flower/Cook out campaign more the ramblings of a fan of English cricket spoilt by recent success.

All that, even if we manage to skittle them to win tomorrow, which would again "paper over the cracks" that Cook alluded to this week.

(http://i934.photobucket.com/albums/ad185/swindon123/cricket_zps2505d085.jpg)

For those people trying to understand a bit more about cricket.

Just saw someone in a Swindon shirt (& pint in hand) on the TV coverage.

Courtesy of Mr M's twitter account:
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BcnANCvIYAA4d99.jpg)

Is that your tweet Posh?

Well left Bairstow you fuck

You are kidding me. Retire Cook you buffoon.

Dolly dropped. Cheers Cook

Not me.

And another catch goes down. I'm not sure they could catch a cold at the moment.
Schoolboy fielding

Can we forfeit the next test?

This team is a joke. They have to be binned or retire after this series.

Cook is a waste of space. If he doesnt resign the captaincy after this series then it will be a travesty.

Mind those jerky knees gentlemen.

If we have to lose a rest to the Aussies, I'm glad it's Rogers and not Warner scoring the runs. Really good bloke who's served his time and done it the right way.

That said, England clearly want to be on the plane home. 5-0 looks all but definite.

MADE MY MIND UP...GOING TO TRY AND CHANGE MY BERKSHIRE ACCENT.  :crash:

BEING BEATEN BY THE ALL BLACKS IS ONE THING.....BUT THE AUSTRALIANS IS TOTALLY SHIT.   :cry:  :doh: :badmood:

Here's a little ditty about an even worse test series, just to cheer you up


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XT3XcmGGqtI

At least when we were pissing all over the Aussies they showed some fight.

Our useless bunch of limp- wristed tossers couldn't muster a fucking thing.

The majority of the senior players must have totally gone, confidence wise. Time to get rid and start again.

The turnaround from a winning team in the summer to a rubbish one in the winter reminds me of the turnaround between the 2009/10 Swindon play off team and the 2010/11that got relegated. Just shows that losing a couple of key players, players believing their own hype and losing form can turn the fortunes of a team.

Indeed.

Complete this series and look to rebuild. Not wholesale changes and dropping players who have had one poor series after many excellent performances.

Just woke up and hoped it was all a nightmare but it appears not ....

It patently clear Cook/Flower don't trust Monty so I think his days are numbered. To leave him out the attack for 1hr 45 mins on a 4th day pitch and then bowl Root ahead of him I think I would have walked off, got a cab back to the hotel, grabbed my stuff and gone to the fucking airport.

It's not that long ago Monty bowled England to victory in India.

I expect either Tredwell or Borthwick to play at Sydney which is a shame because in spite of his fielding Monty is second best spinner in England by a distance. Tredwell can do the steady eddie, a bit of everything but nothing that well. Borthwick is talented and bats at 3 for Durham but last time I saw him bowl he served up a series of long hops and full tosses that suggest if he plays and gets it wrong we could have a another Kerrigan on our hands!

In Sydney, I'd drop Carberry, shift Bell to 3. Ballance to 5 (Hasnt played any cricket, but cant get much worse). Anderson looks shot so i'd drop him and bring in Finn and i'd porbably drop Bres and i'd Rankin a burst to.

I would go to Bondi beach or Sydney harbour

For the final test I think smart money is on:

Cook
Root
Bell
Pietersen
Ballance
Stokes
Bairstow
Borthwick
Bresnan
Broad
Rankin/Finn

If the series wasn't all ready a joke before Melbourne, it's completely something else now. I really don't get how we've managed to completely fuck up this test after being in a strong position at lunch on Day 3. Poor batting and good/pressurised bowling is the answer I keep coming up with - and it's been exactly the same now for 4 test matches. There were glimpses of what England COULD have done during the test match, but a truely pathetic effort has seen us a shoe in to lose the series 5-0 now. Anything else will completely shock the pants off me. It's a shame as I like Carberry, but he hasn't got the score he needed to cement his opening spot and therefore I think England should look to the future and the 2015 Ashes series. Cook is on a poor run of form, that will change, but there seems to be no fire behind his captaincy, Root, young and will get better, first tour to Australia and will learn from it, KP, well frustrating but showed what he can do in this test, Bell, after having such a great home series has completely gone the other way, Stokes, as per Root, Bairstow, thought he had a good game with the gloves but batting really needs to improve. Anderson looks drained and running on empty, and has looked so since the 1st test at home where he took 10 wickets in the match, Broad has looked good to me with the ball, Bresnan, I like but looks to have been rushed back, and Monty, I felt a bit sorry for but bowled OK.

I'm rambling now...anyways I'd pick the same team as NMH for Sydney but Finn would deffo be in my XI.

Difficult times ahead as we look to bring in and bring on new, younger players.

Prior's loss of form with the bat has been especially damaging to the whole tail it seems

Think Cook needs to get his snr pros to take responsibility as follows:

1  Cook
2  Carbs
3  Bell (take responsibility!)
4  KP
5  Balance
6  Root
7  Stokes
8  Prior
9  Broad
10 Anderson
11 Monty

Who keeps wicket?

At a guess, Prior.

Oops. I didn't read that far down the order.

/facepalm

Looks like Borthwick will get a debut in the final test.

He bats at 3 for Durham and got over 1000 runs in the CC last year.   But he barely bowled and if he does make it to the summer watching him bowl to the Sri Lankan's and Indian's might need watching from behind the sofa!

Yeah, we're essentially picking a player not unlike Steve Smith as our lead spinner. On the bright side, he's got a decent chance of doing an Agar...

Borthwick a much better batsman than Agar Nemo, he's really come on last few years but his legspin has gone the other way. A definite Steve Smith-type selection here. Ballance and Rankin also tipped to make debuts in final test match in place of Carberry, Bresnan and Panesar. Root back to open, Bell at 3, Borthwick at 5, Ballance at 6 with Rankin taking Jack (or 11).

Personally I can't see anything other than an Australian win, and thus completing one of the most remarkable come backs you'll see - 3-0 series defeat only 4 months ago, lost 3 consecutive Ashes series and now 4-0 up, with a chance to whitewash England!

3 debutants as expected in the form of messers Ballance, Borthwick and Rankin.

Biggest surprise is Root not Carberry dropped.

Didn't see that coming!

Me neither, Joe Root the future - would rather he played than Carberry. Happy with the other changes though, good to see England finally win a toss, some early wickets would be nice!

Bizarre

Clownberry over Root is an absolute joke.

I'm going to bed. What a bunch of cunts.

Good session there from England. My worry is that Haddin and the lower order get runs and England collapse like they have throughout the series.  I guess only time will tell.

We are taking catches too! What the fuck is going on?

Sweet mother of Jesus. From 97-5 to 201-5 and Haddin off and at it again. Rankin has buggered a hammy by the looks of it leaving England with a 4 man attack one of which Borthwick has served up 3 overs of the kind of utter filth has remembering Simon Kerrigan from the summer.

Glad Borthwick bats at 3 and his batting and come on because going into a test with him as your main spinner could be about to backfire badly!

I know, I was just suggesting that he's got a decent chance of top scoring for someone ostensibly picked as a specialist bowler. He's pretty much a like for like swap for Root really, but been picked for completely different reasons.

Good start, poor finish but even now 320 isn't out of reach. Carberry is an odd selection, but then again, Root hasn't really convinced either.

Stokes looked good again, real risk of him ending the series as our best bowler and best batsman.

Brad Haddin is a source of serious frustration, but stop bloody bowling to his strengths.

shitting hell....

Cook gone second ball and Bell dropped next ball. This is could get even more embarrasing, if that's possible.

Decent ball though

they're making us play, but we're not up to it at the moment

Delaying tactics going on!  Keep this up and we might get a draw.  :Ride On Fatbury's Lovestick: :Ride On Fatbury's Lovestick: :Ride On Fatbury's Lovestick: :Ride On Fatbury's Lovestick:

14-3, the difference is (as it has been all series)  that the Aussie Middle/lower order has dug them out of the shit almost every time whereas England just fall apart & collapse.

 :dito:

From bad to worse! 17 for 4

soapy tit wank

Just when I thought it couldn't get any worse. Shameful.

Embarrassing!  :(  :( :( :(

Don't worry at least we have some experience at the crease!  :no: :no: :no:

Wouldnt be surprised if theres been some match fixing this tour. Cant think of any other reason we have been so bad.

...what?

that has to be tongue firmly in cheek

Hope not many of these useless fuckers are in the one day squad

I wouldn't expect us to come away from Australia with anything than a whitewash in the ODIs, either.
Can't wait for the summer.  :badmood:

Perhaps we should have a series versus Namibia or Kenya to try and get our confidence back.

Unless . .  . . . .

Oh no. 

I had forgotten about the ODIs and had been consoling myself that this thread would finally be closing tomorrow sometime.

I liked this from the BBC website:

"With a single shot, the 36-year-old short-sighted colour-blind Rogers had scored as many as any of England's first five batsmen managed in their entire innings".  

For some reason was looking forward to watching our new-look team bat, but what a nightmare...sorry at 17-4 I went to sleep, watched I think 29 minutes before deciding that's it and off to bed I went...total utter embarrassment, the Aussies already have way to many!

Was quite shocked to see Borthwick batting that low down the order if he was picked as a batsman who could bowl a few overs! Didn't make much difference anyway  :doh:

Trying to salvage some of the damage with a hearty bet on Bailey to be first man out today at 5/6... Keep going Chrissy R...

Every cloud

Good odds those.

Well I hate to say it but I'm actually glad that's over. Been put out of our misery good and proper and an example of exactly the reason why needed to enjoy every moment of our victories against them the last 3 series. Nothing lasts forever but we'll be back.

After all of that, I still can't get my head around how you go from 3-0 in the summer to 0-5 less than 6 months later.  The embarrassing thing for me was that at no point was there even a contest.  It was a procession.  A long, drawn out formality.  Quite how Jonathan Agnew managed to maintain the enthusiasm to report on this non-event for over a month is beyond me.

Because Aggers gets paid to do it , maybe? Generally somewhere warm and sunny too!

Get the increasing feeling that England were not a happy bunch of "mates". Cricket is a very individualistic game but it also requires a good team spirit which seemed lacking at times. Probably when the autobiographies are eventually written we might get to know where it all went wrong.

Concur.

If you think back to the summer, we won 3-0, but it could have been very different, apart from a few key things which went our way....I said back then we weren't as good as some people thought and the Convicts not as bad.

Similarly I said this series was over egging the pudding....all the cracks revealed in our summer like how to get Trott and Cook out....the creaking knackeredness of Swann and Anderson....Prior's loss of form, muddled selection in Woakes and Kerrigan...and the Aussies effectively widened the cracks until the whole edifice collapsed.

The blame for this debacle lies firmly with the ECB....should never have put this series in straight after the summer.

I don't think losing a series should mean knee jerk reactions usually, but I feel Cook needs to give up the captaincy, if only to release him from the burden which seems to be weighing down on his batting.  He does seem to have dragged the team into a very dour way of playing, which has not caused as many problems as it might do because we had a good team that took a year or two to finally lose all semblance of form when approaching the game this way.  Both series against New Zealand were awful in terms of how we played vs. how we should have been able to play, and then individual performances took games away from Australia in the summer.  At no point have we looked like a team who believe in what we are doing in the past year.

The first six pages of this thread make interesting reading kn hindsight.

Despite our luck in the summer, a 5-0 reversal was never really on the cards.

It's true.  No one saw it coming.  And there needs to be some detailed analysis now as to why.

Not having a pop at DMR (honest), but this quote from the first page of this thread is probably the pick of the bunch...

One or two poster's predicting skills need a bit of work....

Ugh.

That's all I can summon up the spirit to say.

Well I got it wrong ^, this tour has been nothing short of abysmal and a shambles! Lots of players futures up in the air - England have 6 months now to make changes and get it right for that 1st test against Sri Lanka in June and build for the 2015 Ashes series! Not one England top order batsman (1-5) averaged over 30 in the series (KP 29.4) and the highest average was Ben Stokes, who also made the only century for England, at 34.87. Only 1 (?) score over 300 in the series, no score reaching 400 in 20+ innings (not sure if that's correct but feels like it - last one I remember was away to NZ in Feb). The wheels of change are already in motion. Flower/Cook will still be in charge but there needs to be an instalment of passion/pride which has seriously been lacking/missing in this England team.  

England will bounce back and it may take a couple of years (a la the Aussies), so don't be surprised if regain The Urn in the Summer of 2015 - a long way to go, expect a few more defeats before it gets better, but things will come together once again!

FWIW I think we'll get a drubbing in the ODI/t20 series as well if anyone is interested.

In some ways England were the same in this series. Almost in every test we got in a good position with the Aussies 5 down for a 100 or so but managed to fuck it up spectacularly every time.

The problem is the batting, pure and simple.

I wish I had put my house on it now. Damn.

Even a stopped clock is right twice a day.

You seem to have put an extraneous 'l" into your post

(http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/72085000/jpg/_72085726_michael_carberry_getty.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/rv5OCsM.gif)

I'm sure I'll be in a minority of 1 but I really don't think MJ has bowled as well as 37 at 14 apiece.

Apparently something like 7% of his deliveries would have hit the stumps. He hasn't really swung it or seamed it. He's bowled absolute gas but that shouldn't be enought to get test players out. We've made him look good.

Haddin should have been man of the series.

I think he was just picked to give him some international experience rather than to actually deliver in the game itself.

He's bowled well but we've made him look invincible. Our batsmen just couldn't handle his pace and that's where we've been at our weakest throughout the series, he's constantly sparked collapses because we've emptied our bowels at the sight of him

Completely agree about Haddin, he's played the role that Prior has in the past and won/saved matches for us.

Agreed.

I may be more knee jerk though and wouldn't like to see some seamy pitches cover up 5 consecutive spineless Tests.

Cook and Flower should both stand down.

We were lucky to lose 5-0.  None of the tests were even close unless you count the 8 wicket defeat as close.  This remember was not against South Africa or India for example.

It's not for Cook and Flower who led and selected the squad to turn round and say "I was wrong about you, him and him also" and "you, him and also you are responsible for nearly losing me my job"

We need a replacement for Flower, who should be free to enthuse and motivate a new squad of players he chooses to pick (and if that includes Cook as skipper  that would be his choice, so fine)

So, where do we go from here?

Do we make changes at the top? Is it the end for Flower, Gooch and Saker?

Do we bring in the likes of Bopara (who I don't think is good enough), Alex Hales (who seems to have become a slash and bash merchant), Taylor (who is too short) as batting contenders? Are any better than Bell & Pietersen?

What do we do at wicketkeeper? Do we go back to Prior or look forward to Kieswetter, Buttler or Bairstow? None of whom are good enough keepers nor improve the batting.

Are Carberry or Root really answers to who to open with Cook? Does captaincy weigh heavy on Cook and affect his batting?

Do we persist with Anderson, who seems to have lost the ability to move the ball? Whats the future of the giant drinks waiters?

What do we do about spin? Tredwell, Borthwick, Monty or Patel? I think Rory Hamilton-Brown was being groomed as a future England captain (sort of in the Brearley mould) who could bat and bowl a bit of spin, but he seems to have lost it since Tom Maynard's death.

I think at the moment we only have 3 positions nailed down:

Cook (but not necessarily as captain)
Broad (but I'd ideally like him at 1st change)
Stokes (batting at 6/7 and 2nd change would be ideal)

Interesting to see what happens next?

I think Gooch probably has to go, 25 innings or something ridiculous since 400 scored. Saker should be fine, the bowlers have largely done well and been let down - although someone needs to be hired as a specialist Steven Finn coach to work out what the hell they've done to him.

For me Prior and Trott come back presuming both want to and both start alright in County Cricket. If Trott isn't coming back it complicates things severely. If we need a new keeper I'd look at Davies or Kieswetter, Buttler is a supreme talent but doesn't play the long game well yet.

Root is a big part of England's future but probably not an opener yet- I think Simon Katich is a good example, took a long time to mature into a top order player. KP needs to feel loved to play his best, I've seen Vaughan suggest the vice captaincy- certainly something needs to be done.

Very difficult decisons and very interesting all round. Gun to my head to pick a side for Sri Lanka at home?

Cook, Chopra, Trott, KP, Bell, Stokes, Prior, Broad, Onions, Kerrigan, Anderson

Still think Kerrigan is a better spinner, nerves aside, than anyone else bar Monty and it's clear that Monty isn't in favour. If Finn is fixed then he should be in the team but I'm not expecting him to be. If Trott doesn't play again Root at 5 Bell to 3.

We should resist going all out youth- Aussies have done very well bringing in experienced pros (Johnson, Harris, Rogers...Bailey not so much) and we shouldn't pick a player just because they're young. If they're good enough, fine, but none of the young bowlers are better than Onions and none of the batsmen better than Trott/KP/Bell


Of the touring squad I'd be surprised if Rankin, Monty, Carberry, Tremlett, Swann (obviously) and Trott (pleasantly) ever pull on an England shirt again. That's a whole lot of change.

This is a good post.  I shall expand with my opinions.

The sad truth is the best of what is out there went on tour to Australia.  There isn't much out there.

Yes Flower, Gooch and Saker stay but the game plan needs to change.  There was a sea change from the 3rd test back in England. Aus would have own the 3rd test but for rain. England only won the 4th because of a Broad magic spell and England only had a sniff in the 5th because of a generous Clarke declaration.  Even at 2 and 3 nil up England were impotent with the bat in terms of run rates and pitches doctored to kingdom come to get Swann in the game. England need to be active, not necesarily putting every other ball to the ropes but even finding 1's and 2's and rotating the strike. Too often were the Aussies allowed to settle into a spell almost unchallenged.

I expect we have seen the last of Carberry, think Root will shift up to open in the summer. Bell at 3, KP at 4, Ballance at 5 and Stokes at 6.

I would be stunned if Prior wasnt given the chance to re-establish himself with the gloves and bat at 7.

Anderson didnt move the ball a jot but that will change in the summer. Last year pitches were deliberately left dry, next year they will practically start underwater and with sub continental opposition will move from the off.

You could argue and I would subscribe to the theory that, that approach will just put a sticky plaster over the problems.

I would go with Anderson and Broad as certs.  This is a massive summer in the life of Steve Finn. I personally would leave him out the one day games and send him on the A tour to Sri Lanka in March and tell him to bowl. Hopefully he would have some confidence and get the first crack in the summer.

That leaves a spot for the spinner ... Panesar is the best spinner in England but clearly Cook/Flower don't trust him. This is complicated by the fact SL and India who come in the summer are traditionally good players of spin. Borthwick took 4 wickets in the 5th test but 2 were caught in New Zealand and Haddin dragged on a full toss.  There was a long hop or full toss every over and he would get taken apart. But he would add to the batting which Flower/Cook like.

I would go Panesar but think we wont see him again in an England shirt and Borthwick with get first go.

The upside for England is the standard of test cricket is that poor the next half decent side they will play will be the Aussies again in 2015  .

Truth of the matter is the best batsmen rarely get out bowled unless the ball moves. Johnson didn't move a ball. It was quick, straight and intimidating.

I heard a stat half asleep on TMS that against numbers 8-11 he had taken 17/38 or something similar.

Why don't Flower/Cook trust Panesar? I don't understand it myself.

Doesnt bat and his catching is scandelous.

Things like this SY - http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2534148/Just-HOURS-Englands-Ashes-humiliation-cricketer-using-dating-app-tempt-blonde-hotel-room.html

Panesar known to have off field issues and has for the past few years, whether he's sorted them out I'm not sure.

Strange that...i seem to remember him batting out a draw on a dodgy pitch in Wales which was a massive contribution to us gaining the Ashes a few years back....he is our best spinner by miles,batting and catching is nothing to do with it really.
Sadly by the time we thought of using him it was to late.,,,even Swan said it was a great chance for Monty,very strange he didn't play.

He'd piss all over the opposition

Talk (From the Telegraph, so not just made up shit) that Pietersen and Flower have fallen out the point where Flower will resign if he's selected again.

Joy.

If Flower would rather sack it off because he can't be bothered to deal with 1 individual then good riddance.

KP is a world class player and shouldn't be the scapegoat for this debacle of a tour.

I don't think Pietersen should be the ONLY scapegoat from the tour.

If he, or any of the other senior players, are not pulling their weight or gelling as part of a team then they should be out - Just as many people have stated on here about Nile Ranger.

I found the Telegraph article interesting. I'd thought that England didn't look to be a happy team, but I hadn't put it down to Flower and Pietersen.

Anyone got a link for the squad for the ODIs ? Not sure how different it is?

Interesting article on the KP subject, with rumours of Flower not wanting him, Michael Vaughan recommending him to become test vice-captain and Pietersen himself, injuries and goals before retiring: http://www.espncricinfo.com/the-ashes-2013-14/content/current/story/707677.html

ODI Squad: England ODI squad: Alastair Cook (captain), Gary Ballance, Ian Bell, Ravi Bopara, Tim Bresnan, Danny Briggs, Stuart Broad, Jos Buttler, Michael Carberry, Steve Finn, Chris Jordan, Eoin Morgan, Boyd Rankin, Joe Root, Ben Stokes, James Tredwell

T20 Squad: Stuart Broad (captain), Ravi Bopara, Tim Bresnan, Danny Briggs, Jos Buttler, Jade Dernbach, Steve Finn, Alex Hales, Michael Lumb, Eoin Morgan, Boyd Rankin, Joe Root, Ben Stokes, James Tredwell, Luke Wright.

http://www.espncricinfo.com/the-ashes-2013-14/content/story/708055.html

'Jump, Jump, Jump!'

A lot to jump for
Having to go back to Cheltenham after watching England get royally shafted

Fair play to them both though why they need a security officer with them in Aus does make you wonder, hardly the subcontinent is it

Obviously because the place is full of criminal!

Yet another thrashing by the Aussies, this time in the 1st ODI by 6 wickets! The comparison between Australia's top order (Finch, Warner & Watson) who give it a bit of a whack/get them off to a flyer (163 for 1st wicket), compared to England's (Cook, Bell & Root) who like the 'slow & steady' approach looks like it'll be a massive difference in this series. 260odd was never going to be enough and I feel another 5-0 hammering is on the cards.

Maybe so.  But like many others, I suspect, I gave up caring some time ago.

Cook just doesn't do it for me. He appears a real boring fuckwit

That pretty much summed up the tour didn't it?

That was shocking, how on earth did we manage to lose that?

Unbelievable!

The best statement about this tour....which I've been harping on about since the summer  :)...comes from Ken Schofield, the man who was charged to look at the reasons for the previous Ashes 5-0.


The blame for the debacle falls at the door of the ECB....asked too much of the players by trying to squeeze extra $, out of the Ashes brand and got a not entirely unpredictable meltdown. They may have succeeded in killing the goose that laid the golden egg

The Aussies seem to be doing ok, and the last time I checked they were involved in both of the Ashes series.  I think SA would have spanked us as well.

Australia had their meltdown early in 2013 in India, used the summer to rebuild, and reaped the benefits in this series. Ideally England could have done with a trip to South Africa to rebuild, of course very difficult, but as playing the world number one who easily beat us in England last time, not really expected to win, so less pressure.

Surprised that nobody has mentioned the miracle this morning of England's men winning a cricket match against Australia

Are they still playing?!

I think most people gave up caring a long time ago.

I see it's going well again today.   ::)

Possibly the most one sided 20-20 international ever?  The last match can't come soon enough, and then the debacle that ECB released on the game can be forgotten about for a bit.  Roll on mid April when the thwack of leather on willow, can start to be heard in field and park, the length and breadth of England's fair land....unless it's snowing/hailing/pissing down with rain, blowing a gale  :badmood:

I think that there have been an awful lot of one sided matches. This one just comes off the back of a season of poor performances by England.

I just don't understand England selection policies. They seem to choose people and stick with them too long.

Dernbach for example seems to offer nothing for me. He blazed onto the scene 3 or 4 years ago with a variety of slower deliveries. He was really effective until people sussed him. Now he just gets carted and gets gobby.

Tredwell is another. The Aussies are big spin whackers. So, it doesn't really matter which spinner you put in (unless we have someone as talented as Warne waiting in the wings - which we dont), they are going to get pummelled.

So, dibbly-doblers who can cart the ball seems to be the order of the day. Why didn't Wright bowl?

Why is Root in the team? He's an authodox batsman. Tests - yes. One dayers- yes. But you don't need one of those in T20. Bopara and Morgan can play that role if necessary.

Oh well. One more to watch then we can get back to the rainl, wind, snow & hail as you say.

I can umderstand the panning Dernbach gets but Bresnan doesnt swing it these days and is equally ineffective.

As for James cunting Tredwell. A spinner who doesn't spin it. Great.

Flower given das boot

Up until these last couple of series, Tredwell's record was very good, so I've no problems with him being picked, it's just that the Aussies have now targeted him and he's been found wanting.  We've taken Rayner on the A tour, no idea how he's going.

Yet may stay with ECB in some some capacity

KP's bum chum?

Think it has something to do with today's figures maybe.

Dernbach 3 overs 0-42
Bres 3 overs 1-11.

Bit of a difference I'd say. Not sure you can do much better from 3 20Twenty overs to be honest.

Sad to see Flower go.  He has done a terrific job and when a coach leaves what he achieved often goes unmentioned but he presided over 3 Ashes series wins, a win in India for the first time god knows how many years, and a 20/20 world cup.

With regards to the new coach it is interesting it has been mentioned they would like one coach for all formats which suggests Ashley Giles will be given first chance.  Other names in frame could include Stephen Fleming, Gary Kirsten (Highly unlikely), Jason Gillespie and other who don't come to mind right now.

Irrespective of Flower going I still think this will spell the end of KP, in the test team at least. After the summer tests v Sri Lanka and India, England don't play another test until April 2015 by which time KP and his creaking knee will be 35.  The next IPL auction is in March so by then KP will know what is what and we will know from the value is put against him.

The only good thing from today is surely we have seen the end of Jade Dernbach's career in an England shirt. The figures were rubbish but that can happen in 20/20 but the gobbing off was ridiculous.

I suspect the opposite, FCB.

Flower demanded the removal of our best player - naturally that's fucking ludicrous - I reckon that probably helped speed up Flower's departure. He issued an ultimatum and the powers that be called his bluff. Maybe.

Long live KP.

The coming summer is going to be massive on the domestic front.....the ECB have binned the 40 over comp, in favour of the 50 over game, having previously binned 50 because no-one watches it anymore. They've also shunted 20-20 to Friday nights, given it a stupid name and will play it throughout the summer.

The ECB must hope this works and so must Sky, because I don't suppose an embarrassing Ashes defeat does much for their viewing figures.

The coming Test series could be wonderful...the Indians have some marvellous young batsmen, but are no more than steady in seam bowling, with as ever some decent spinners available. The best thing about India is that they play with great joy and in the spirit of the game....something sadly lacking this winter.

So it appears that the ECB have decided a player is more important than the coach.

I guess the question then has to be how many of the current squad were on the coaches side, I fear a Leeds Mafia style dressing room split will continue for some time yet.

Great points Reg especially regarding the new 20/20 competition.

I'd look at the competition they have in Aus. I'd move from counties to a city based system. This won't happen but I'd look to move it to a terrestrial channel BBC3 maybe with a guaranteed prime time slot. Finally rather than spreading over a whole summer in needs a dedicated 3 or 4 week slot which would make it easier to attract overseas players than the current format.

Reluctant though I am to resurrect this depressing thread, Jade (stupid name for a man anyway) Dernbach should never ever put on an England shirt again.

I'm refusing to watch it.  It seems reasonable to assume that they are being a complete embarrassment again. 

Just think, they will soon be enjoying the luxury of first class air travel home! There are some who I would not let back in the Country (Dernbach, for one), let alone allow them to be pampered all the way back here.

Best you don't look at the score, pretend we weren't playing is my advice!

J Dernbach 11-0-141-1

Thanks for coming mate. Might as well stay out on holiday for a bit. Ten years should do it

Well it's all finally over - 5-0 Test series defeat, 4-1 ODI defeat and a 3-0 t20 series defeat, utterly humiliating, embarrassing and humbling. Surely now the only way is up! Flower has gone which gives the new man a chance to build his own team and legacy right from the bottom up. Flower was just a casualty of time - he had a great 5 year spell in charge, winning 3x Ashes Series, t20 World Cup, took us to #1 in the test, odi and t20 rankings and won away in India - nobody can and should ever take that away from him. All good things come to an end and now it's time for someone else to raise this England team (in all formats) and prepare for what is a key few years (t20 WC in April, 50 over WC next year and a home Ashes series in 2015) and get us firing again. I'm looking forward to the Summer already, think and hope we'll see some youngsters given a chance in all formats. As some have said, it may get worse before it gets better, but for me it can't get any worse, so here's to a new era in English cricket!

KP binned then, as the fallout continues....

How the fuck can you bin off your only genuine match winner, with 14,000 England runs, because of a personality problem? He's a bell end but he's also world class. What ever happened to professionalism? Wankers.

Well at least KP can go and play and make his money in the IPL, which he's wanted to do for years.

Reminds me a bit of when Somerset skipper Peter Roebuck, binned Sir Viv and Joel Garner because he couldn't manage them...so Botham left the club in protest....that the Oxford born Roebuck was later shown to be a toff with a penchant for spanking young men's bottoms, being neither here or there...

If England get an improvement from not having KP around then, I suppose the decision is vindicated...

Erm... If we draw a test match in the summer that would be an improvement Reg. I'm not sure that can be attributed to sacking off KP.

Obviously, a little time needs to elapse before the decision can be judged...

An equally spurious argument - with KP leading the way we've won 3 Ashes series, a world T20, won in India... He was arguably our top performer in all bar the first Ashes win in 2005..

Silly decision to get rid of KP, at least in the short term, you need your best players around to help pick you back up. KP is a world class player and whilst he didn't set the series alight in Australia he was still the top run scorer. Personally think he should have been allowed to go out on his own terms and deserved a crack at 2015 World Cup/Ashes!

England are a better side with KP in it, but appears the powers that be think otherwise!

Stupid. Stupid. Stupid.

Genuinely insane. Lucky we have loads of top class batsmen to come in...

But nobody knows what effect KP'S being in the side has n the others.

Obviously something was majorly wrong with the squad in Oz.

One bad apple and all that.

We've seen at first hand how lack of togetherness can affect a team

With KP, Trott and Swann gone I fear we're about to see how a lack of fucking talent can affect a team

The Aussies managed to turn round a squad that regulalry got dicked to an Ashes winners fairly quickly or was that solely down to England's shitness

We'll find that out soon when they're in South Africa..

Considering he is South African, I'm surprised it's taken the ecb this long to get him of out the side.

There may be stuff we don't know about that went on in Aus so my opinion may be premature.

My take is that KPs England career has coincided with an unparalleled era of success and arguably more so than almost any other England player.

A new "Team Ethic"?

How about a "winning ethic" to the spineless mediocrity that were and remain Whitaker, Downton and Giles? 

Even if waning, KP has the talent, and if some less talented players want to be part of a weaker team so that there is a nicey, nicey dressing room, then THEY should be weeded out.  Cricket and batting in particular has always had its selfish, non-team players.  No one says you have to like them. 

This should have been the new team manager's call who I hope would be man enough to make his own decisions.

Look at Busby and Best or Ferguson and Cantona.  They "managed" extreme talent for the good of the team and the success of the club. 

This, for me, is all reminiscent of David Gower. A phenomenal batsman on his day. Total uproar when he was 'retired' by England. But it enabled the emergence of players like Thorpe.

Everyone has their time. The ECB thinks KPs time is over. Remember the good time and move on.

It's not just KP though, is it? Almost to a man England's batsmen have struggled for ages now - only to be dug out of a hole by the bowlers ( until now) .

When a test side can't go beyond 400 in an innings for what seems like an age it is obvious where the blame lies.

And is cricket the only sport where the captain can be absolute gash and yet is still guaranteed his place.

Entertaining twist, Peter Moores apparently is getting the England job (all three formats).

You might remember him getting the boot the last time we sacked KP, who didn't like his methods much either.

The plot doesn't so much thicken as congeal.

I don't think that's 'quite' hows its being reported. Seems paper talk about potential candidates. Moores would be a much better candidate, imho, that the King of Spain.

You have to say that today's debacle in Antigua had a certain panache, a model in how to lose a game from a seeming position if invincibility...we've got this down to a fine art.

Would have pissed that with KP at 3 or 4.

Well done England.

It's going well again.....

As I was saying....... :nod:

This is tense. Ravi's taken 8 off 2 from Malinga.

Standing ovation for Hales in the office.

What a fucking knock. Wow.

 :wotjump: :wotjump: :wotjump: :wotjump:

 :pint:

That was some fightback after a woeful fielding display earlier!

People have got OBEs for less.

That was fucking immense. I never give up but jeez, didn't see that coming!

 You have to wonder why Hales is seen as solely a 20-20 slogger.....if Warner can turn into a test bat, why can't Hales?

Because Hales scored 254 first class runs last season at an average of under 14.

The Aussies threw Warner in when desperate and he paid off. We're not particularly desperate for opening bats at the moment, with Robson and Compton both presenting very good cases and Chopra a decent one with Carberry and Cook in possession.

Doesn't mean he won't jump the queue based on one day performances (after all Morgan did) but lets not pretend management are ignoring his talents.

No idea why he isn't in the ODI team though.

He's too English.

It's a fair point....

Just seen the score - my interest has deteriorated over the past few months in English cricket - but wow what a knock from Hales and a comeback from England, stuck Sky Sports on record at 8, so intend on watching it this evening!!!

Without getting too carried away, what a fucking beast.

Hits the ball off the square too. Not in an England opener's MO.

Just watching the highlights - sorry, why wasn't Lumb's catch given out? Thought he took it perfectly!

Because the umpires realised they had cocked up the previous ball dismissal when giving Perrera out caught when he didn't touch the ball.

Steve Davies - Typical cheating Aussie!

Btw, what a shot from Hales to finish the game!!!