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The Archive => Cheltenham Festival => Topic started by: Sippo on Monday, April 4, 2011, 12:31:00



Title: Grand National
Post by: Sippo on Monday, April 4, 2011, 12:31:00
Not Cheltenham, but horsey related....

Any tips for the grand national on saturday?


Title: Re: Grand National
Post by: Arriba on Monday, April 4, 2011, 12:35:35
aint had a serious look yet but it's a bugger to get the winner in this race.will have a couple of e/w value bets which i will up later in the week.


Title: Re: Grand National
Post by: Ginginho on Monday, April 4, 2011, 13:03:16
Here's (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/horseracing/8425075/Grand-National-2011-Silver-By-Nature-ticks-all-the-right-boxes-for-Aintrees-big-race.html) a good article.


Title: Re: Grand National
Post by: DMR on Monday, April 4, 2011, 13:28:23
Last year was the first time I'd done well with the National, had 2nd, 3rd and 4th all e/w.

Big Fella Thanks seems to love it round there so I'll be backing him and a couple of others come the day.

Big trixie for me as well with Albertas Run, Peddlers Cross and Big Bucks.


Title: Re: Grand National
Post by: Ginginho on Monday, April 4, 2011, 14:29:12
Thanks, Big Fella.
Let's hope I win some Big Bucks!


Title: Re: Grand National
Post by: Arriba on Wednesday, April 6, 2011, 22:05:28
plenty of chance to bag some money tomorrow i think in the run up to the national.
most look like 2 horse races to me.


Title: Re: Grand National
Post by: Dazzza on Wednesday, April 6, 2011, 22:18:36
1st         Silver By Nature
2nd        Character Building
3rd         Quinz

From someone that has picked the winner two years on the trot.

Definately worth a punt E/W.  I'm attending on Saturday, it's usually a great day out but its a 06:30 start followed by beers on the ferry across the Irish sea at 07:30.  This year I'm hoping to avoid the 9am turbo shandys followed by champagne at 9am, which made for a hazy day last year.



Title: Re: Grand National
Post by: Arriba on Thursday, April 7, 2011, 08:17:54
my tips for today.
2.00-(grands cruz) big bucks.would have gone for big bucks but he's been off his food earlier in the week.
2.30 (grandouet) zarkander.would have gone for zarkander but has had an abcess so i dont think it will be 100%
3.05 nacarat(nap) denman
3.40 baby run
4.50 (medermit) wishfull thinking
 those in brakets are where my money is.the others mentioned are bound to go close


Title: Re: Grand National
Post by: Rustle on Thursday, April 7, 2011, 10:10:11
I've gone for a placepot aswell


2.00 Big Bucks
2.30 Grandouet
3.05 Caroles Legacy E/W
3.40 Moncadou   E/W  
4.15 I'm Delilah   E/W
4.40 Wishfull Thinking  

It looks so easy to pick those favs to win the first races but i think the outcome will be a lot different, It can't be that easy surely.  


Title: Re: Grand National
Post by: DMR on Thursday, April 7, 2011, 14:30:35
Why people keep taking Big Bucks on is absolutely mental, landed the Walsh/Nicholls double which has given me a good old pot to play with, think that's the last we'll see of Denman though.


Title: Re: Grand National
Post by: DMR on Thursday, April 7, 2011, 14:32:15
Been tipped Offshore Account for the amateur race now, backed it at 40/1 ew this morning


Title: Re: Grand National
Post by: LucienSanchez on Thursday, April 7, 2011, 14:39:02
I'll trust you, Dave...


Title: Re: Grand National
Post by: LucienSanchez on Thursday, April 7, 2011, 14:49:17
My faith was well placed


Title: Re: Grand National
Post by: DMR on Thursday, April 7, 2011, 14:53:41
Having a bit of a blinder today, god help me tomorrow when I hand it all back


Title: Re: Grand National
Post by: LucienSanchez on Thursday, April 7, 2011, 15:00:16
Arriba would have been having a blinder, if he'd bet on the choices above not in brackets...


Title: Re: Grand National
Post by: Arriba on Thursday, April 7, 2011, 15:19:41
my nap won.baby run won,and second in the first
i'm doing ok thanks
granduet would have won too i reckon if not brought down.
i used brackets in the races where i fancied 2 horses but picked 1.all the others i was on.


Title: Re: Grand National
Post by: DMR on Thursday, April 7, 2011, 15:28:02
my nap won.baby run won,and second in the first
i'm doing ok thanks
granduet would have won too i reckon if not brought down.

Might be the pocket talking but disagree, it came travelling like that to the last at Cheltenham and found precisely fuck all


Title: Re: Grand National
Post by: Arriba on Thursday, April 7, 2011, 15:36:17
thought it was going better today.would have run the zarkander closer today at least i'm sure.


Title: Re: Grand National
Post by: Arriba on Thursday, April 7, 2011, 15:37:03
have work to do but going for bothy e/w in the last


Title: Re: Grand National
Post by: steptoe41 on Thursday, April 7, 2011, 16:57:09
Have not even looked at a race card today, to bastard busy. Tomorrow looks the same as well, so I think I will save my dough for a day at Cheltenham next Wednesday.

I might just have 50p E/W on West End Rocker in the National though.


Title: Re: Grand National
Post by: STFC4LIFE on Thursday, April 7, 2011, 17:00:26
Been to busy myself today, and like above haven't looked at tomorrow's race card.
Probably better off though, iv'e not had a decent winner lately, i'm only just getting over Cheltenham, so tips are welcome.


Title: Re: Grand National
Post by: Rustle on Thursday, April 7, 2011, 17:19:03
I've gone for a placepot aswell


2.00 Big Bucks
2.30 Grandouet
3.05 Caroles Legacy E/W
3.40 Moncadou   E/W  
4.15 I'm Delilah   E/W
4.40 Wishfull Thinking  



That was a bit rough with Grandouet & Moncadou both being brought down.


Title: Re: Grand National
Post by: BelfastRobin on Thursday, April 7, 2011, 18:29:26
Stuck my last £15 to my name before my student loan on Big Bucks, Zarkander, Caroles Legacy and Baby Run so a cracking day for me. Saved my bacon, literally!



Title: Re: Grand National
Post by: nochee on Thursday, April 7, 2011, 19:28:51
Not as classy as Cheltenham, at all.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-1374468/The-good-bad-downright-tacky-It-Liverpool-Day-Aintree-kicks-off.html


Title: Re: Grand National
Post by: steptoe41 on Thursday, April 7, 2011, 19:42:54
Not as classy as Cheltenham, at all.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-1374468/The-good-bad-downright-tacky-It-Liverpool-Day-Aintree-kicks-off.html

A couple of jockey's I know reckon the Aintree meeting is the best of the year for some of the sights on show.
One lad almost put his horse through the rails on the way down to the start last year as the silly sod was too busy looking at some half dressed fat scouse bird, rather than looking where he was going.


Title: Re: Grand National
Post by: Arriba on Thursday, April 7, 2011, 22:14:28
fridays selections.

2.00 sire de grugy
2.30 quito de la roque
3.05 alberta's run
4.15 sparky may



Title: Re: Grand National
Post by: Chubbs on Friday, April 8, 2011, 06:40:29
how many horses are people backing for the grand national? is it common to back more than one?


Title: Re: Grand National
Post by: Rustle on Friday, April 8, 2011, 08:34:49
Todays placepot and Lucky 15

2.00 A Media Luz  (E/W Lucky 15)
2.30 Wayward Prince
3.05 Albertas Run
3.40 Mon Parrain (E/W Lucky 15)
4.15 Sparky May (E/W Lucky 15)
4.50 Kilcrea Kim  (E/W Lucky 15)


Title: Re: Grand National
Post by: Arriba on Friday, April 8, 2011, 08:49:10

2.00 sire de grugy
2.30 quito de la roque
3.05 alberta's run
3.40 alfa beat
4.15 sparky may

meant to update my earlier post.unable to delete this for some reason?


Title: Re: Grand National
Post by: LucienSanchez on Friday, April 8, 2011, 09:53:37
I have

2.30 Wayward Prince
3.05 Albertas Run
4.15 Sparky May

and one in the 5.15 at Newcastle which has been recommended to me. lets hope for some beer tokens


Title: Re: Grand National
Post by: Ginginho on Friday, April 8, 2011, 10:00:27
Ooh what's the tip for the 5.15 at Newcastle?


Title: Re: Grand National
Post by: LucienSanchez on Friday, April 8, 2011, 10:03:20
Las Verglas Star... it's favourite, but i've been 'guaranteed' it can't lose, haha


Title: Re: Grand National
Post by: Ginginho on Friday, April 8, 2011, 10:05:32
Cheers, might have a look!


Title: Re: Grand National
Post by: STFC4LIFE on Friday, April 8, 2011, 11:23:26
I have Alberta's Run in a single, and Alberta's Run, Alfa Beat and Sparky May in a treble. Here's hoping.


Title: Re: Grand National
Post by: RJack on Friday, April 8, 2011, 12:36:07
In 3 different Sweepstakes at work i got the following so i'll stick a few quid on them tomorrow regardless of the odds

Ballabriggs
The Midnight Club
Vic Venturi


Title: Re: Grand National
Post by: MichaelPook on Friday, April 8, 2011, 12:39:41
Ballabriggs for me this year


Title: Re: Grand National
Post by: Arriba on Friday, April 8, 2011, 15:31:00
i'm having another great day today.could get even better after the 4.50


Title: Re: Grand National
Post by: DMR on Friday, April 8, 2011, 15:52:58
Master Minded Albertas Run reverse forecast thankyooooooooooou


Title: Re: Grand National
Post by: Arriba on Saturday, April 9, 2011, 08:46:35
hoping to continue a fine couple fo days with these.......

13.45- sam winner
14.15- finnians rainbow
14.50- peddlers cross
15.25- great endevour
14.15- what a friend, silver by nature, quinz, state of play
17.00- plan a
17.75- montbazon.

good luck all.....


Title: Re: Grand National
Post by: leefer on Saturday, April 9, 2011, 09:01:43
Silver By Nature for the National.


Title: Re: Grand National
Post by: Rustle on Saturday, April 9, 2011, 09:23:37
1.45 Rock On Ruby
2.15 Ghizao
2.50 Peddlers Cross
3.25 Great Endavour
4.15 What a Friend,becauseicouldtsee,Quinz  all E/W
5.00 Nearby

Racing is where it's at sod the football, Have a good day folks  :)

 


Title: Re: Grand National
Post by: Luci on Saturday, April 9, 2011, 09:40:12
Because I haven't won anything on the National in years, I've bet on 14 horses e/w (really small amounts mind).  Couldn't tell you what they were though - just picked a load because I liked their names!


Title: Re: Grand National
Post by: Nemo on Saturday, April 9, 2011, 10:02:35
Silver by Nature to win and each way, Vic Venturi each way.

Could do with a win to soften the bank balance a bit.


Title: Re: Grand National
Post by: RJack on Saturday, April 9, 2011, 15:34:12
Ballabriggs you beauty £5 to win woohoo!!!!!!!!!!!!


Title: Re: Grand National
Post by: Don Rogers Shop on Saturday, April 9, 2011, 15:35:15
Haha same here Jack also had don't push it e/w and my daughter had the 2nd


Title: Re: Grand National
Post by: leefer on Saturday, April 9, 2011, 15:38:48
 
Haha same here Jack also had don't push it e/w and my daughter had the 2nd

No tricast :headhurts:

Well done DRS,though the ban the national brigade will be out in force with the carnage on course.


Title: Re: Grand National
Post by: RJack on Saturday, April 9, 2011, 15:39:26
Gratz DRS 1st & 2nd & 3rd is very respectable


Title: Re: Grand National
Post by: Don Rogers Shop on Saturday, April 9, 2011, 15:45:05
Was more pot luck than anything. Had a bit of a lucky week this week to be fair


Title: Re: Grand National
Post by: Arriba on Saturday, April 9, 2011, 16:01:40
had state of play e/w at a decent price so happy with that.


Title: Re: Grand National
Post by: DMR on Saturday, April 9, 2011, 16:19:27
Couldnt pick a winner today at Aintree if my life depended on it but a good festival all in all


Title: Re: Grand National
Post by: Chubbs on Saturday, April 9, 2011, 16:51:17
had state of play e/w at a decent price so happy with that.
thats was my only cash too, 10-er up. better than nothing


Title: Re: Grand National
Post by: Arriba on Saturday, April 9, 2011, 16:53:06
the form book went out of the window for most of the races today.a bit down today after tidy profits thurs and fri.


Title: Re: Grand National
Post by: chalkies_shorts on Saturday, April 9, 2011, 17:23:18
As usual had 5 E/W bets including Ballabegs so still £50 up. Its all been downhill after £10 E/W on Mon Mom a couple of years ago


Title: Re: Grand National
Post by: leefer on Saturday, April 9, 2011, 17:27:46
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1375210/Grand-National-2011-Ballabriggs-winsl-day-drama-Aintree.html

Great pics here,though very,very sad about the two fatalities......that horse in the pic who died had no chance.

Thats sport though.


Title: Re: Grand National
Post by: sonicyouth on Saturday, April 9, 2011, 18:05:49
Thats sport though.

What is? Death?


Title: Re: Grand National
Post by: Don Rogers Shop on Saturday, April 9, 2011, 18:07:55
What is? Death?
In horse racing unfortunatly so.


Title: Re: Grand National
Post by: sonicyouth on Saturday, April 9, 2011, 18:26:43
Fair enough. I don't really understand the Grand National, the fact that fatalities are to be expected just seems weird to me.


Title: Re: Grand National
Post by: Arriba on Saturday, April 9, 2011, 18:53:49
i must admit, i feel guilty about betting on races when fatalities occur.
after all,they are only running to make people money,and are just tools of the trade.



Title: Re: Grand National
Post by: DMR on Saturday, April 9, 2011, 19:02:33
Fair enough. I don't really understand the Grand National, the fact that fatalities are to be expected just seems weird to me.

Horses break down in dressage, point to pointing, flat racing and even cantering at home, the knives will always be out for national hunt racing when there's a fatality in a high profile race, but it's hardly like it's the only scenario where horses can get injured.


Title: Re: Grand National
Post by: sonicyouth on Saturday, April 9, 2011, 19:13:32
Horses break down in dressage, point to pointing, flat racing and even cantering at home, the knives will always be out for national hunt racing when there's a fatality in a high profile race, but it's hardly like it's the only scenario where horses can get injured.
Not denying that, same as you get the occasional death in any sport - even in football you hear about an increasing number of players dying in matches. But the national is an annual event and there's a death every year which is why it stands out from the rest.



Title: Re: Grand National
Post by: Arriba on Saturday, April 9, 2011, 19:14:49
i think it asks to much of the horses.the fences are huge and relentless.only 19 finished out of 40 which says it all


Title: Re: Grand National
Post by: stfcinbmth on Saturday, April 9, 2011, 19:34:42
i think it asks to much of the horses.the fences are huge and relentless.only 19 finished out of 40 which says it all

Much like bull fighting in Spain I guess, bit of a tradition


Title: Re: Grand National
Post by: steptoe41 on Saturday, April 9, 2011, 19:42:19
Not denying that, same as you get the occasional death in any sport - even in football you hear about an increasing number of players dying in matches. But the national is an annual event and there's a death every year which is why it stands out from the rest.



The only reason that it stands out is the fact that it's just about the only major horserace that the BBC broadcast live. If you were to watch dedicated racing channels such as ATR and Racing UK, you would see that fatalities are not uncommon.

I personally love the sport of National Hunt racing, but some of the scenes today were unacceptable, and I do think that something needs to be done regarding the way the fences at Aintree are built (take the spruce away and it's like jumping into a line of upright telegraph poles. Hit that at 35 mph and you stop stone dead and are cartwheeled straight over the top).
It's also worth remembering that horses are a herd animal and running and jumping is what they do naturally. Horses can and do refuse to race and jump, but as a rule, most racehorses love doing what they do.

There have been more equine casualities over the years at the Cheltenham festival than the Grand National, but you never hear the same outcry calling for the festival to be banned.



Title: Re: Grand National
Post by: DMR on Saturday, April 9, 2011, 20:16:23
Exactly, at the end of the day, these horses love it and are bred to do it, they want for nothing whilst they're in training nor in retirement, that's just one of the risks I'm afraid.

If you want it banned, where do we draw the line? F1 by the same logic shouldn't exist after Senna, football after the likes of Foe etc, fuck me I remember some cricket club league game in Wales last season, an umpire got killed when he got hit in the head by a throw from the boundary, should we knock it all on the head?


Title: Re: Grand National
Post by: Arriba on Saturday, April 9, 2011, 20:22:09
Much like bull fighting in Spain I guess, bit of a tradition

nothing like bull fighting.
those poor animals are sent out to die,horses racing are not.


Title: Re: Grand National
Post by: steptoe41 on Saturday, April 9, 2011, 20:39:43
Don't know if anybody on here has seen this, but I am sure the likes of Arriba and DMR will join me in wishing Peter a speedy recovery.
It's guys like this that put a bunch of overpaid, under achieving wankers (most professional footballers) to shame.

http://www.racingpost.com/news/horse-racing/aintree-aintree-grand-national-jockey-peter-toole-in-critical-condition-in-hospital/839567/top/


Title: Re: Grand National
Post by: stfcinbmth on Saturday, April 9, 2011, 20:44:06
nothing like bull fighting,horses racing are not.


But they do die, just a comparison arriba regards the tradition nothing more. Can't stand horse racing myself, I would maybe more interested if they got shot of the jockies and had an electric carrot going round the side of the track ala greyhound racing. Lot's of it is fixed anyhow



Title: Re: Grand National
Post by: Sussex on Saturday, April 9, 2011, 21:24:16
ala greyhound racing

...where 6000+ dogs retire every year, many of which aren't lucky enough to be re-homed and end up in the hands of the meat man.

They all live and love their lives, unfortunately not all come through with happy endings.



Title: Re: Grand National
Post by: stfcinbmth on Saturday, April 9, 2011, 21:47:54
...where 6000+ dogs retire every year, many of which aren't lucky enough to be re-homed and end up in the hands of the meat man.

They all live and love their lives, unfortunately not all come through with happy endings.



Not interested in greyhound racing either, just in the electric rabbit or carrot. Though it is a shame that animals lose their lives because people like to gamble on certain outcomes



Title: Re: Grand National
Post by: sonicyouth on Saturday, April 9, 2011, 21:49:32
Exactly, at the end of the day, these horses love it and are bred to do it, they want for nothing whilst they're in training nor in retirement, that's just one of the risks I'm afraid.

If you want it banned, where do we draw the line? F1 by the same logic shouldn't exist after Senna, football after the likes of Foe etc, fuck me I remember some cricket club league game in Wales last season, an umpire got killed when he got hit in the head by a throw from the boundary, should we knock it all on the head?
I never said it should be banned. All I said was that I didn't understand it.


Title: Re: Grand National
Post by: spacey on Sunday, April 10, 2011, 23:51:51
Oh, but they love it....

I feel reasonably confident that if you could communicate to a horse that they could die within the next 15 mins they'd be like "yeah, fuck you and your carrots! I'm going nowhere."

The kindest thing would be to destroy them all before the race.


Title: Re: Grand National
Post by: BANGKOK RED on Monday, April 11, 2011, 09:29:19
If the horses love it so much, why do they have to be broken in, whipped and spurred?

Sounds like great fun!


Title: Re: Grand National
Post by: Peter Venkman on Monday, April 11, 2011, 09:38:23
If the horses love it so much, why do they have to be broken in, whipped and spurred?

Sounds like great fun!

And then shot!


Title: Re: Grand National
Post by: Benzel on Monday, April 11, 2011, 09:41:10
Oops I've broken your leg. Time to kill you.


Title: Re: Grand National
Post by: Arriba on Monday, April 11, 2011, 09:48:45
horses love to run,but they have to be trained to do the jobs they do.
i'm not convinced they enjoy it at all,but it becomes normal for them.

animals are abused killed for all manner of reasons,food,racing,killing for fun,fishing,fighting each other to amuse humans etc,etc.
we all just have differing levels of guilt,and the decisions that guilt causes see how animals are used in our personal lives.


Title: Re: Grand National
Post by: Ginginho on Monday, April 11, 2011, 09:52:23
Did anyone see that Bill Bailey programme earlier in the week about baboons in South Africa.
The pink arsed bastards were working in groups nicking food and bags from cars.
We should have a Baboon Grand National and ride them around a field jumping trenches, they'll think twice about stealing from us again, little fuckers.


Title: Re: Grand National
Post by: BANGKOK RED on Monday, April 11, 2011, 10:12:17
horses love to run,but they have to be trained to do the jobs they do.

Trained?

Causing excruciating pain to force them to obey out of sheer terror is training?

Surely 'tortuous conditioning' would be a more appropriate term.



Title: Re: Grand National
Post by: jayohaitchenn on Monday, April 11, 2011, 11:03:26
Trained?

Causing excruciating pain to force them to obey out of sheer terror is training?

Surely 'tortuous conditioning' would be a more appropriate term.



Yeah, a bit like bringing up a kid.


Title: Re: Grand National
Post by: Simon Pieman on Monday, April 11, 2011, 11:10:11
Or teaching the wife to be obedient


Title: Re: Grand National
Post by: Don Rogers Shop on Monday, April 11, 2011, 11:47:39
Trained?

Causing excruciating pain to force them to obey out of sheer terror is training?

Surely 'tortuous conditioning' would be a more appropriate term.


I'm assuming all these lot complaining are fully fledged vegetarians and fully aware how what they eat is killed. I also hope you don't participate  in any type of gambling when it comes to horse racing.



Title: Re: Grand National
Post by: BANGKOK RED on Monday, April 11, 2011, 12:11:54
I'm assuming all these lot complaining are fully fledged vegetarians and fully aware how what they eat is killed. I also hope you don't participate  in any type of gambling when it comes to horse racing.



I'm actually not objecting to the races as such, it's not something I lose any sleep over. And I've never gambled on the horses, although that's not on moral grounds.

But when somebody comes out and says that the horses actually 'love it', it's likely to evoke a reaction.


Title: Re: Grand National
Post by: china red on Monday, April 11, 2011, 12:18:36
I'm actually not objecting to the races as such, it's not something I lose any sleep over. And I've never gambled on the horses, although that's not on moral grounds.

But when somebody comes out and says that the horses actually 'love it', it's likely to evoke a reaction.

But can't you see the huge grins on their faces as they run down the race course?

Have a good friend who is vegetarian, won't wear leather but loves the horse.


Title: Re: Grand National
Post by: pauld on Monday, April 11, 2011, 12:30:22
But when somebody comes out and says that the horses actually 'love it', it's likely to evoke a reaction.
Course they do, parading around the place in their short skirts and high hoofs, just asking someone to slap a saddle on them


Title: Re: Grand National
Post by: Don Rogers Shop on Monday, April 11, 2011, 12:31:05
Dick teases the lot of them


Title: Re: Grand National
Post by: flammableBen on Monday, April 11, 2011, 12:41:06
Paying to watch a midget whip a horse is fine, but if you suck one off whilst wanking into a kumquat then apparently I'm weird and could be locked up. Society can fuck off.


Title: Re: Grand National
Post by: DMR on Monday, April 11, 2011, 12:54:55
Trained?

Causing excruciating pain to force them to obey out of sheer terror is training?

Surely 'tortuous conditioning' would be a more appropriate term.



Excruciating pain? Sheer terror?

Mate if you don't know what you're talking about probably best to leave the debate alone eh? x


Title: Re: Grand National
Post by: BANGKOK RED on Monday, April 11, 2011, 13:10:27
I'be already made it clear that I am indifferent on the subject and was just responding to a daft comment.

But considering you wan't to take it further, are horses not broken in using extreme pain to make them obedient?

And to put it into context of my comment, would they go anywhere near a race course if it was not for this 'breaking in'?


Title: Re: Grand National
Post by: DMR on Monday, April 11, 2011, 13:16:16
No and yes respectively.

You seem to assume horse racing is some ungoverned animal beatdown with with no regulations.


Title: Re: Grand National
Post by: jayohaitchenn on Monday, April 11, 2011, 13:58:33
You seem to assume horse racing is some ungoverned animal beatdown with with no regulations.

THAT, I would watch.


Title: Re: Grand National
Post by: BANGKOK RED on Monday, April 11, 2011, 14:22:21
No and yes respectively.

You seem to assume horse racing is some ungoverned animal beatdown with with no regulations.

Right

I was sure that there was a breaking in treatment which involved causing a great deal of pain to the horses highly sensitive nose. I can't find it on the web though so perhaps I was mistaken, although I'm sure I remember it from somewhere.

Still

What I did find is that many consider the training of horses to be cruel. Horses do not want people sat on their backs, they don't like it. Training often involves punishments to make the horse feel very tired or uncomfortable to make them more obedient in the future. They are not entirely happy to give people a ride, they are made to. I actually got that from horsey forums, it's all more or less the same. Their spirit is broken so that they no longer resist to something they don't enjoy.

Now the race course.

Putting aside the fact that they don't want somebody on their back in the first place, why would any animal want to knowingly put their life at risk without good reason (except for us). They simply just don't, they are being made to do something that they simply do not want to be doing and that thing is putting their lives at risk.

Now you seem to think that I have a thing against it, I'm not that fussed. I eat meat, wear leather shoes, and I'm aware of what a hypocrite is. The only reason I popped into this thread was in the hope of reading daft drinking stories.

But to but it into context, again, I was just responding to somebody's daft comment that the horses love it which is clearly absolute bollocks. Why would any animal 'love' doing something that they have been made to do unwillingly from a young age AND puts their life at risk?

It's just a shallow and weak excuse in an attempt to justify the deaths that occur?


Title: Re: Grand National
Post by: Arriba on Monday, April 11, 2011, 14:56:59
maybe if you read my "daft comment" properly you would see that i didn't say that at all.


Title: Re: Grand National
Post by: BANGKOK RED on Monday, April 11, 2011, 14:59:35
It wasn't your comment I originally replied to arriba


Title: Re: Grand National
Post by: Arriba on Monday, April 11, 2011, 15:04:49
as you quoted my post and then went into your arguement, i assumed you were refering to me.
apologies if i got it wrong


Title: Re: Grand National
Post by: Don Rogers Shop on Monday, April 11, 2011, 15:16:23
You are always fucking wrong. Get used to it Arriba


Title: Re: Grand National
Post by: Arriba on Monday, April 11, 2011, 15:21:00
fuck off you.
on the very rare occasions i get it wrong i'll hold my hands up.
its that cunt bangkoks fault anyway for quoting my post.


Title: Re: Grand National
Post by: BANGKOK RED on Monday, April 11, 2011, 15:21:56
fuck off you.
on the very rare occasions i get it wrong i'll hold my hands up.
its that cunt bangkoks fault anyway for quoting my post.

Guilty as charged :)


Title: Re: Grand National
Post by: Don Rogers Shop on Monday, April 11, 2011, 15:23:18
Both thick as pigshit wrong cunts then.


Title: Re: Grand National
Post by: Arriba on Monday, April 11, 2011, 15:24:42
that's more like it.

i'm taking the mrs to newbury races saturday.
flat racing, so no deaths hopefully.


Title: Re: Grand National
Post by: Sussex on Monday, April 11, 2011, 16:23:21
They all live and love their lives

If you're referring to my comment, I stand by it.

Carry on.



Title: Re: Grand National
Post by: pauld on Monday, April 11, 2011, 16:59:24
that's more like it.

i'm taking the mrs to newbury races saturday.
flat racing, so no deaths hopefully.
Bollocks you're clearly trying to get rid of her with this transparent ploy. Watch out, arriba's missus, he's after you!


Title: Re: Grand National
Post by: spacey on Monday, April 11, 2011, 22:34:20
I read in a book called 'Horse Facts Proven by Science' that if a horse pricks its ears then it is as happy as a horse can be. Ask anyone who makes money out of horse racing and I guarantee they'll say the same.


Title: Re: Grand National
Post by: Simon Pieman on Tuesday, April 12, 2011, 01:02:10
I want to know how Bangkok Red knows that horses don't love it :)


Title: Re: Grand National
Post by: Batch on Tuesday, April 12, 2011, 06:42:30
I want to know how Bangkok Red knows that horses don't love it :)

A horse is a horse, of course, of course,
And no one can talk to a horse of course
That is, of course, unless the horse is the famous Mr. Ed.

Go right to the source and ask the horse
He'll give you the answer that you'll endorse.
He's always on a steady course.
Talk to Mr. Ed.

People yakkity yak a streak and waste your time of day
But Mister Ed will never speak unless he has something to say.

A horse is a horse, of course, of course,
And this one'll talk 'til his voice is hoarse.
You never heard of a talking horse?

;)


Title: Re: Grand National
Post by: Ardiles on Tuesday, April 12, 2011, 09:11:30
One of my sweepstake horses died on Saturday.  Must admit, I'm starting to have a little more sympathy with those who are calling the National a barbaric race.


Title: Re: Grand National
Post by: Arriba on Tuesday, April 12, 2011, 09:35:36
i think they should make the fences smaller and keep the distance as it is.
would still be a test of stamina and endurance


Title: Re: Grand National
Post by: Don Rogers Shop on Tuesday, April 12, 2011, 09:42:37
They should make the fences higher


Title: Re: Grand National
Post by: König on Tuesday, April 12, 2011, 10:09:22
making the fences smaller encourages higher speeds, and its going too fast that causes the accidents. make the jumps bigger and the horses will hit them slower. can't they just reduce the number of horses running aswell to stop all the congestion and whatnot


Title: Re: Grand National
Post by: BANGKOK RED on Tuesday, April 12, 2011, 10:19:35
I think it's making the animals do things they aren't designed to do that causes the accidents


Title: Re: Grand National
Post by: Don Rogers Shop on Tuesday, April 12, 2011, 10:20:52
What were they designed to do though? Just live in a field


Title: Re: Grand National
Post by: ghanimah on Tuesday, April 12, 2011, 10:24:03
I think it's making the animals do things they aren't designed to do that causes the accidents

Are you suggesting that horses are not designed to run, gallop and jump over stuff?


Title: Re: Grand National
Post by: König on Tuesday, April 12, 2011, 10:25:05
in the wild don't they all run about happy as larry in their herds, effectively what they're doing when they race


Title: Re: Grand National
Post by: BANGKOK RED on Tuesday, April 12, 2011, 10:28:06
Are you suggesting that horses are not designed to run, gallop and jump over stuff?

40 horses

3 die in a single 10 minute event. Yeah, they're really engineered for it aren't they? Do that in nature and they'd be extinct in weeks.


Title: Re: Grand National
Post by: Don Rogers Shop on Tuesday, April 12, 2011, 10:28:58
Dogs dont live in houses birds dont hve fucking mirrors in front of them and donkeys dont live on the beach. Where do we stop then


Title: Re: Grand National
Post by: Ardiles on Tuesday, April 12, 2011, 10:30:15
Something I read this morning is that a horse's heartrate can increase 10 fold during a race.  Not sure if this is true, but the article did imply that the horse was not really designed for this and was a major factor in the high instance of heart attacks in the minutes following a race.  I shouldn't really put stuff like this forward, I know, without checking it out first.  But it's made me think, that's for sure.


Title: Re: Grand National
Post by: BANGKOK RED on Tuesday, April 12, 2011, 10:31:11
Something I read this morning is that a horse's heartrate can increase 10 fold during a race.  Not sure if this is true, but the article did imply that the horse was not really designed for this and was a major factor in the high instance of heart attacks in the minutes following a race.  I shouldn't really put stuff like this forward, I know, without checking it out first.  But it's made me think, that's for sure.

Apparently the winner was in critical condition after the race due to exhaustion.


Title: Re: Grand National
Post by: König on Tuesday, April 12, 2011, 10:38:52
does anyone else find it funny how these days people seem to be more appalled by injuries to animals then they are for human death and suffering, i suppose people see animals as being unable to defend themselves or make a choice about what they are doing. Theres a jockey in critical condition after a race on saturday, but he's hardly been mentioned by the press because of the deaths of the horses, though you could argue he chose to ride and knew the risks, whereas the horses are made to run  :no:


Title: Re: Grand National
Post by: ghanimah on Tuesday, April 12, 2011, 10:40:13
40 horses


I didn't realise that horses in the wild were solitary animals, I always assumed that they were social animals who formed large groups better known as herds.


Title: Re: Grand National
Post by: BANGKOK RED on Tuesday, April 12, 2011, 10:43:23
I didn't realise that horses in the wild were solitary animals, I always assumed that they were social animals who formed large groups better known as herds.

Did you deliberately miss the point?


Title: Re: Grand National
Post by: yeo on Tuesday, April 12, 2011, 10:44:24
Monkeys on Shetlands jumping people,problem solved.


Title: Re: Grand National
Post by: flammableBen on Tuesday, April 12, 2011, 12:08:44
I think it's making the animals do things they aren't designed to do that causes the accidents

Designed?

Wasn't the modern domesticated horse bred entirely for work? I'm sure it must be quite different from the wild horses of whatever BC.





Title: Re: Grand National
Post by: STFCBird on Tuesday, April 12, 2011, 12:29:47
Designed?

Wasn't the modern domesticated horse bred entirely for work? I'm sure it must be quite different from the wild horses of whatever BC.





Most sensible post in this thread comes from Flammable fucking Ben (no offence sweetcheeks)

I was bought up in and around the racing industry and have been riding horses since the age of 4 and I have had my own horse for 10 years.  I know and understand a horses body language and animal instinct.  If any of you cunts want to get on my horse and try and make it do something it really does not want to do, be my guest because if he does not want to do it, he fucking won't end of. 

Domesticated horses were bred for work and the best attributes from the wild horse have been harnessed for our benefit.  The thoroughbred was bred for agility and speed.

The horse that won the grand national, was bred for the race.  His owner bought him to win the race.  The horse jumped from fence to fence and when you know horses and understand horses you would see that horse was enjoying his job.  Yes he finished very tired but you could see that all of the jockeys that had fallen or failed to complete the course were rushing to the horses that finished with buckets of water for them all and to cool them down.  The welfare of the horses is paramount.  Yes two horses died, I was very sad, it upset me, but I do not want to ban jump racing or the grandnational. Those horses would not have felt pain and would of been seen to instantly by vets. They were born to run and they died doing a job that they were bought into this world to do and enjoyed doing.


How horseracing lives with the spectre of death

 By Alastair Down 11:05AM 12 APR 2011

IT IS simple to attack jump racing, infinitely more complex and challenging to defend it.

Saturday’s Grand National has provoked a veritable storm of protest. Some of the outrage has been from the usual suspects marching under the banner of ‘animal rights’ – whatever they may be. But a large chunk of the disgust has come from the everyday man and woman in the street, and their legitimate concerns have to be taken seriously by the racing industry, because in the final analysis we continue to ply our trade with the consent and tolerance of the general public.

And it is no use jump racing holding its nose and ducking the stark realities. Since 1988the Grand National has killed 20 horses and the spectacle of two of them quite literally laid out for eight million people to see on Saturday has stuck broadside in the craw of many people, not least certain newspaper editors or TV and radio stations hungry for controversy.

Every single argument about the legitimacy and morality of jump racing can be boiled down to one extremely uncomfortable, even disturbing, question and that is: Are you prepared to accept the death of horses as part of your sport?

We will take as read all the usual caveats and qualifications about constantly doing our damnedest to prevent horses being killed, and please let’s dispense with our customary refuge in expressions such as ‘casualties’ or horses ‘paying the ultimate
price’.

I can play with fancy words better than most but this is not the time – on Saturday some people were revolted by the sight of dead horses and they are levelling the potentially fatal charge that the Grand National in particular and, therefore, jump racing in general is cruel past the point of acceptability.

Nor is it any use to rail against the cheap sensationalism of the coverage or the twisted logic of critics for whom regard for the truth is an easily avoided inconvenience. There is no point trying to have a sane debate with someone who compares jump racing with bullfighting except to make the small point that on the racecourse everything humanly possible is done to avoid death whereas in the bullring it is fully intended to bring it about.

So we must address the burning question. If your answer is, “No, I am not prepared toaccept the death of horses as part of my sport”, then jump racing is not for you because it is a high-risk, physically dangerous activity in which fatalities are inevitable.

A lot of the problemis that jump racing’s deaths are extremely high profile. As a society we hide death away. We kill hundreds of millions of animals every year and I could show you certain modern farming methods, or the most scrupulously run abattoir, and have you puking in revulsion within minutes.

But such horrors are all hidden from view with the result that someone apparently outraged by Aintree would make no connection with their own contribution to animal carnage on a colossal scale whensitting down later with a chicken sandwich or a juicy steak.

And of course I am as upset as the next man by confronting death. A stricken animal up close is a terrible sight to behold and I couldn’t put my hand on my heart and say that if I had to face it time and again there might not come a tipping point when I could take it no more.

But I am prepared to accept the death of horses as part of my sport. The worst part for sure and the one that serves up jumping’s vilest moments. And is my conscience clear?
Yes. Is it untroubled? Most assuredly not.

Everybody loathes the death of a horse. But fatalities are just a fraction of what jump racing is about and I would behonest enough to argue that, in an increasingly sanitised, risk-denuded society, the omnipresence of danger lies at the very kernel of its appeal.

I have no argument with those who disapprove of jump racing. But with those who seek toemasculate it beyond recognition or ban it entirely I am implacably at odds.

Those who love jump racing hail from every geographical corner and inhabit all social strata of these islands. They are Everyman and they are legion.

When they make their way to Cheltenham or to Aintree it is not without trepidation of what they may see. But, taken in the round, they find something about the sight, sound and spectacle of jump racing that is spiritually uplifting and nourishing to the soul in a way that no other sport comes close to providing.

And, of course, ‘a little learning is a dangerous thing’. How many of those currently howling at jumping’s gate have ever set foot ona racecourse or tried even to begin to understand it before condemning it? There is no tyranny as great as ignorance.

I know many folk, the young in particular, who despite not being ardent racing fans try never to miss the festival because as a feast of very human joy they have found no other occasion in their year to match it.

And that joy is nurtured, raised and rammed tumultuously home into the human breast by an almost primal passion for the jumps horse in full cry. And when one is killed, is it merely marked by some flitting note of regret, or an uncaring shoulder shrug?

Not a bit of it, it is the stuff of genuine remorse, yet still a price worth the paying. The truth is that jump racing gives ordinary people avenues into zones of emotional experience that are increasingly hard to replicate elsewhere. That may render it unfashionable and sometimes uncomfortable, but it doesn’t erode my conviction that it is utterly defensible andalmost wholly admirable.



Title: Re: Grand National
Post by: BANGKOK RED on Tuesday, April 12, 2011, 12:32:23
What were they designed to do though? Just live in a field

Pretty much yes, big fields (plains)

Horses are not sprint animals, they are a prey animal and prey animals tend to be good runners but their main predators are not short burst runners like lions and cheetahs. The horses natural predators are wolves and wolves hunt differently.

Wolves hunt in packs and their intention is not so much to outrun their prey but push it to exhaustion. It is not a battle of speed but a battle of stamina. A horse sprinting at high speed in the wild would be pointless because they will just tire quickly and slow down, allowing the wolves to close in. Instead the horse has evolved to run at a sustained speed over a long distance in hope that the wolves tire before they do.

Yes a horse can sprint fast, after all they are big animals with large powerful legs. Elephants can also shift but it doesn't mean they are made for racing. By making the horse run as fast as possible over a sustained period of time, you are making them do something that they simply are not built to do which is clearly evidenced by the fact that many suffer from heart attacks and often run themselves to the brink of death (if jumps don't kill them).

If horse races were endurance events rather than speed events there would be far fewer casualties. You could say that it's a case of horses for courses.


Title: Re: Grand National
Post by: BANGKOK RED on Tuesday, April 12, 2011, 12:35:07
Designed?

Wasn't the modern domesticated horse bred entirely for work? I'm sure it must be quite different from the wild horses of whatever BC.





Designed/bred/whatever.

The fatalities clearly show that they are not made to be doing what they are doing. They really are just not very good at it.


Title: Re: Grand National
Post by: flammableBen on Tuesday, April 12, 2011, 12:37:28
Designed/bred/whatever.

The fatalities clearly show that they are not made to be doing what they are doing. They really are just not very good at it.

Well that's ok. The deaths of the ones that can't handle it mean that future generations will be better.


Title: Re: Grand National
Post by: BANGKOK RED on Tuesday, April 12, 2011, 12:44:22

The horse that won the grand national, was bred for the race. 


So why did it nearly die from exhaustion?


Title: Re: Grand National
Post by: Ardiles on Tuesday, April 12, 2011, 12:44:23
The welfare of the horses is paramount.

In recent years, the three day Grand National meeting at Aintree has seen an average of three equine deaths.  Another stat from this article (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-13034474) puts the chances of equine death at the start of a steeplechase at 6 in 1,000.

How that squares with 'the welfare of the horses is paramount' is beyond me.  Sorry.


Title: Re: Grand National
Post by: Don Rogers Shop on Tuesday, April 12, 2011, 12:45:13
So why did it nearly die from exhaustion?

Same reason paula radcliffe did


Title: Re: Grand National
Post by: Don Rogers Shop on Tuesday, April 12, 2011, 12:46:21
In recent years, the three day Grand National meeting at Aintree has seen an average of three equine deaths.  Another stat from this article (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-13034474) puts the chances of equine death at the start of a steeplechase at 6 in 1,000.

How that squares with 'the welfare of the horses is paramount' is beyond me.  Sorry.
More people have died from playing football in the last 5 years than horses have in jump racing.


Title: Re: Grand National
Post by: BANGKOK RED on Tuesday, April 12, 2011, 12:48:04
Same reason paula radcliffe did

Heat exhaustion due to the high temperatures.

She was doing something she wasn't designed to do.


Title: Re: Grand National
Post by: Ardiles on Tuesday, April 12, 2011, 12:50:04
More people have died from playing football in the last 5 years than horses have in jump racing.

Which means fuck all...because the number of players turning out every week to play football massively exceeds the number of horses racing.

If you knew that there was a 1 in 167 (or 6 in 1,000) chance you would die every time you played for your Sunday league side, football would die as a sport immediately.


Title: Re: Grand National
Post by: BANGKOK RED on Tuesday, April 12, 2011, 12:50:54
More people have died from playing football in the last 5 years than horses have in jump racing.

How many people play football though?



Title: Re: Grand National
Post by: Simon Pieman on Tuesday, April 12, 2011, 12:51:04
Just to follow on from Birdy's post, horses are trained very early from when they are foaled. The 'breaking' of a horse follows this training - the training is essentially to trust humans and get on with them not to punish them etc. Training a horse for a human to ride is not a massively traumatic experience if done right.

It is rather sad that horses are raced for human amusement and could die as a result. It's not just something which happens in the National but in different meets all year. I guess the National brings it home to more people but why focus on just this race eh? Apart from Bangkok Red I reckon most people have bet on a horse race in their lifetime. Whilst this doesn't make them a hypocrite for past actions it would suggest most people enjoy the racing before they think of a horse's welfare.


Title: Re: Grand National
Post by: Don Rogers Shop on Tuesday, April 12, 2011, 13:01:35
How many people play football though?


22 excluding subs


Title: Re: Grand National
Post by: BANGKOK RED on Tuesday, April 12, 2011, 13:06:26

Those horses would not have felt pain and would of been seen to instantly by vets.


Really?

Dooneys gate didn't die straight away did he? Did the horse not lay there with a broken back before being shot?



Title: Re: Grand National
Post by: ghanimah on Tuesday, April 12, 2011, 13:22:01
Did you deliberately miss the point?

No in the same way you did not answer the question how horses, or race horses, are not designed to race, gallop, run or jump fences even in a herd.

My wife worked for Dick Hern (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dick_Hern) for over 10 years (the circumstances of which are the reason for my log-on name here) and Jenny Pitman, and my wife can assure you that racehorses are very intelligent yet temperamental aka stubborn bastards - if they don't want to do something they don't do it. She could relate plenty of examples of racehorses finding that training is too cold on a January morning so they throw off their jockey and return back to stables to eat hay with a; "don't even try to move me motherfucker" look on their face.

Anyone who works with animals, or owns them, knows when they are sulking, sad, angry or happy. The same is true with racehorses. They race because they want to - for example many horses who fall, pick themselves back up and carry on without their jockey. Conversely some when faced with a fence they don't like say to themselves “bugger this for a game of soldiers" and refuse to continue – that’s what “pulled up” in the statistics means.

Of course it's tragic when horses lose their life, no-one wants to see that - but that's the risk inherent in any sport that relies on speed and agility - ask Ayrton Senna or Nodar Kumaritashvili.

There's too much sentimentally regarding animals, it reminds me of the notorious IRA bomb in 1982 (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/1694928.stm) - it's always remembered as the one that "killed all those horses"; the four Guardsmen who died are always an afterthought.

The horses that raced on Saturday loved doing it, and chose to do it; sadly some fell victim to the risk.


Title: Re: Grand National
Post by: BANGKOK RED on Tuesday, April 12, 2011, 13:29:07

No in the same way you did not answer the question how horses, or race horses, are not designed to race, gallop, run or jump fences even in a herd.


Post number 121

I know they move in herds. Everybody knows they move in herds

40 was a statistic. If it was 2-3 deaths in 4,000 little would be said. 2-3 deaths in 40 is quite some statement,


Title: Re: Grand National
Post by: steptoe41 on Tuesday, April 12, 2011, 14:42:47
I'm off to Cheltenham tomorrow to watch a bunch of mad uncaring midgets weilding whips, flog unwilling racehorses over obstacles they clearly don't want to jump.

So whilst half of you lot are still banging on about how cruel a sport it is, I for one will be enjoying myself with a pint of guinness watching and marvelling as some of these equine superstars do what they do best.

Stand next to a steeplechase fence as a dozen or so thoroughbreds fly over the top at 35mph as one,  and you will see what I mean.


Title: Re: Grand National
Post by: STFCBird on Tuesday, April 12, 2011, 14:48:31
So why did it nearly die from exhaustion?

It didn't nearly fucking die, the horse was given water and oxygen the minute he crossed the line.


Title: Re: Grand National
Post by: steptoe41 on Tuesday, April 12, 2011, 14:50:43
It didn't nearly fucking die, the horse was given water and oxygen the minute he crossed the line.

And he was as right as fucking ninepence the following morning.



Title: Re: Grand National
Post by: STFCBird on Tuesday, April 12, 2011, 14:53:59
T
Really?

Dooneys gate didn't die straight away did he? Did the horse not lay there with a broken back before being shot?



The vets follow the horses in a horse ambulance. But those that do not know the sport would not see or know that.

I do not want to be one of those cunts who thinks their opinion is the right one but I am not getting into arguments with people that do not understand the sport or take time to research their arguments.


Title: Re: Grand National
Post by: BANGKOK RED on Tuesday, April 12, 2011, 15:04:52
Just going by the press birdie.

Quote
A horse named Ornais died instantly when he broke his neck after a fall at the fourth fence. Dooneys Gate, who broke his back in a fall at the sixth fence, Becher’s, received treatment but was later euthanised.

Read more: http://www.digitaljournal.com/article/305533#ixzz1JJzWeg3G

Surely the horse must have been suffering before being shot? I don't think anybody needs to know about horse racing to know that a horse with a broken back will be suffering a tad!

And what would have happened to the two exhausted horses if they were not given oxygen? We may never know, but it is definitely fair to say the horse was not in a good way!


Title: Re: Grand National
Post by: BANGKOK RED on Tuesday, April 12, 2011, 15:06:21
Just going by the press birdie.

Read more: http://www.digitaljournal.com/article/305533#ixzz1JJzWeg3G

Surely the horse must have been suffering before being shot? I don't think anybody needs to know about horse racing to know that a horse with a broken back will be suffering a tad!

And what would have happened to the two exhausted horses if they were not given oxygen? We will probably never know, but it is definitely fair to say the horse was not in a good way!


Title: Re: Grand National
Post by: Samdy Gray on Tuesday, April 12, 2011, 15:13:26
This is just one of those debates that will go on and on. What ever your opinion is, it can be backed up by any range of quotes, articles or statistics.

Nice to see that nobody's given thought to the jockeys who also put their necks on the block every time they saddle up.


Title: Re: Grand National
Post by: ghanimah on Tuesday, April 12, 2011, 15:19:20

Nice to see that nobody's given thought to the jockeys who also put their necks on the block every time they saddle up.

Exactly


Title: Re: Grand National
Post by: BANGKOK RED on Tuesday, April 12, 2011, 15:20:14
The jockeys make their own decision samdy.

And another little nugget I have just found. Jason Maguire, the jockey who rode the winner, has received a ban for using the whip too much. The horse must have loved that.


Title: Re: Grand National
Post by: steptoe41 on Tuesday, April 12, 2011, 15:20:54
This is just one of those debates that will go on and on. What ever your opinion is, it can be backed up by any range of quotes, articles or statistics.

Nice to see that nobody's given thought to the jockeys who also put their necks on the block every time they saddle up.

Posted Saturday. And just for the record, Peter woke up last night so hopefully he is on the long road to a full recovery.

Don't know if anybody on here has seen this, but I am sure the likes of Arriba and DMR will join me in wishing Peter a speedy recovery.
It's guys like this that put a bunch of overpaid, under achieving wankers (most professional footballers) to shame.

http://www.racingpost.com/news/horse-racing/aintree-aintree-grand-national-jockey-peter-toole-in-critical-condition-in-hospital/839567/top/


Title: Re: Grand National
Post by: spacey on Tuesday, April 12, 2011, 15:27:58
It's those poor jockeys that put their necks on the block every time they ride a horse that I feel sorry for!

I read a book called 'The Shockingly Shocking Truth About Jockeys' that revealed that they are forced to ride horses completely against their will for lots of cash.


Title: Re: Grand National
Post by: Arriba on Tuesday, April 12, 2011, 15:30:58
so we're nowhere nearer ending this debate then?
good read mind.

i think deep down i know it's wrong to bet on the national.it is clearly excessive to the extreme.
the fences are huge and the distance is long.a race where only half of the horses finish when they have specifically been prepared for it says it all really.i think it does need to change.


Title: Re: Grand National
Post by: ghanimah on Tuesday, April 12, 2011, 15:31:28
The jockeys make their own decision samdy.

And so do horses make their own decisions, which you conveniently ignored from my previous post. If a horse doesn't want to run it doesn't


Title: Re: Grand National
Post by: Ardiles on Tuesday, April 12, 2011, 15:36:28
And so do horses make their own decisions, which you conveniently ignored from my previous post. If a horse doesn't want to run it doesn't

Do you think all 40 of the horses lining up at the start of Saturday's race were fully aware of the mortality statistics associated with steeplechase racing, though?


Title: Re: Grand National
Post by: BANGKOK RED on Tuesday, April 12, 2011, 15:36:53
And so do horses make their own decisions, which you conveniently ignored from my previous post. If a horse doesn't want to run it doesn't

Oh, so you say that's the way it is, that's that then?

Why are they whipped?





Title: Re: Grand National
Post by: BANGKOK RED on Tuesday, April 12, 2011, 15:39:26
In WWII, the Russians trained dogs to crawl under enemy tanks with explosives strapped to their back.

Apparently, the dogs loved it


Title: Re: Grand National
Post by: spacey on Tuesday, April 12, 2011, 15:41:43
But would the horse still want to run if it knew that it might experience pain and possibly death.

I'm not really that arsed, but a tiny bit curious. It'd be nice to think that horses would still be happy to take part in races like the Grand National despite the risks. They'd be like the equine equivalent of base jumpers.


Title: Re: Grand National
Post by: BANGKOK RED on Tuesday, April 12, 2011, 15:48:08
If the organisers et al would say that there are too many fatalities and that they are going to open an inquiry to look at improving safety, then I for one would STFU!

But, alas, nothing will change and we will see the same old defensiveness when more horses die again next year.


Title: Re: Grand National
Post by: ghanimah on Tuesday, April 12, 2011, 15:48:18
Oh, so you say that's the way it is, that's that then?

Why are they whipped?


I'll ask the question again Bangkok Red, are you suggesting that it's against horses' nature (design) to run and jump?


Title: Re: Grand National
Post by: BANGKOK RED on Tuesday, April 12, 2011, 15:50:27
I'll ask the question again Bangkok Red, are you suggesting that it's against horses' nature (design) to run and jump?

For fucks sake.

I have already told you that I replied to that in post 121. Stop asking the same questions without reading my replies.



Title: Re: Grand National
Post by: BANGKOK RED on Tuesday, April 12, 2011, 15:54:08
I'll ask the question again Bangkok Red, are you suggesting that it's against horses' nature (design) to run and jump?

Oh.

And stop it with the straw man arguments.

If the horses love it so much, why do they have to be whipped?


Title: Re: Grand National
Post by: ghanimah on Tuesday, April 12, 2011, 15:57:12
Oh.

And stop it with the straw man arguments.

If the horses love it so much, why do they have to be whipped?

Not a straw man argument Mr Red, I just look forward to you trying to force a racehorse to do something it doesn't want to do. Can you post footage of that when it happens please. Cheers


Title: Re: Grand National
Post by: spacey on Tuesday, April 12, 2011, 15:58:35
They love getting whipped!

I read it in a book called 'The Truth About How Horses Love Getting Whipped More Than They Love Jumping'


Title: Re: Grand National
Post by: BANGKOK RED on Tuesday, April 12, 2011, 15:58:40
So you don't want to tell us why they are whipped then ghanimah?


Title: Re: Grand National
Post by: Saxondale on Tuesday, April 12, 2011, 16:11:40
They love getting whipped!

I read it in a book called 'The Truth About How Horses Love Getting Whipped More Than They Love Jumping'

Horses are mad for S&M.  Some of them wear blinkers and have a thing in there mouths to bite down on.  They're basically massive meat gimps.


Title: Re: Grand National
Post by: Dazzza on Tuesday, April 12, 2011, 21:30:06
Horses = taller skinny cows.  Good for eating in France and good for giving old and young women alike a cheap jolly that doesn't involve the Hotpoint.

On a serious note we butcher millions of cows each year on a factory conveyor belt of slaughter for cheap burgers and yet we attach sentimentality and mistake instinct as intelligence in horses.  Ok, they are smarter than the average cow but given the choice of being processed like a cheap Chinese ping-pong ball destined for Greggs or living the life of equivalent luxury of a nag with the off chance of taking a tumble I know where my bread is buttered.

On the national I’d like to see some of the jumps changed to make it safer but it is a fine balance.   Make them to low and there is a risk of to much speed which is just as if not more dangerous.  There is a lot that can be done and there’s no excuse for whipping the fucking thing to buggery beast or not.  The punishment on whipping is far too lenient and they should start to get some of these little ball bags and screw them down.


Title: Re: Grand National
Post by: Don Rogers Shop on Tuesday, April 12, 2011, 21:40:44
Changing the subject slightly i do think it's weird how the winning jockey can be banned for 5 rides for the whipping but the result still stands.Maybe if they know they will lose the result due to it this could be some way to stopping the whipping.


Title: Re: Grand National
Post by: Dazzza on Tuesday, April 12, 2011, 21:45:00
Changing the subject slightly i do think it's weird how the winning jockey can be banned for 5 rides for the whipping but the result still stands.Maybe if they know they will lose the result due to it this could be some way to stopping the whipping.

Nail on the head for me.  The sad thing is the jockey will still get a lot of credit for the win and amongst certain circles the ban is far to easily forgotten.



Title: Re: Grand National
Post by: DMR on Tuesday, April 12, 2011, 22:15:06
Changing the subject slightly i do think it's weird how the winning jockey can be banned for 5 rides for the whipping but the result still stands.Maybe if they know they will lose the result due to it this could be some way to stopping the whipping.

The jockey gets a ban because the powers that be are keeping an eye on animal welfare.

The result stands cos the punters shouldnt lose out for their jockey getting the job done.



Title: Re: Grand National
Post by: pauld on Tuesday, April 12, 2011, 22:22:08
Isn't one of the reasons the National is so dangerous because they let too many horses in which creates congestion in the early fences until some of them fall? I'm not asserting this btw, just heard it on the radio so more than happy for those who do know to shoot it down. But if it is the case, it kind of means that horses almost have to fall to allow the race to open up, which seems to make the danger unnecessarily an inherent function of the supposed overcrowding (assuming it is actually true).

Sad to see no-one's mentioned the jockey who's still in a coma from a race earlier on in the day (apologies if you did and I missed it). Hope he recovers


Title: Re: Grand National
Post by: DMR on Tuesday, April 12, 2011, 22:27:22
Peter Toole has already been mentioned mate and I for one wish him well - much more positive news about him this afternoon.

The numbers aren't the biggest problem although you do see the odd horse brought down by a falling horse (although this very rarely does any lasting damage to the horse being impeded as they've already done the hard part and jumped the fence) - it's more the pace they go, they went to quickly particularly for the first 4 or 5 fences, and the fact that with the weather we've had the ground was always going to be on the quick side no matter how much watering they did.

People wonder why horses that regularly win point-to-point races but cant do it under rules in the National, and that is because a national hunt race is run at a much faster pace.


Title: Re: Grand National
Post by: pauld on Tuesday, April 12, 2011, 22:30:47
Fair enough, bloke I heard on the radio was clearly talking bollocks then. Now, there's a shock :)

Glad to hear improved news on the jockey


Title: Re: Grand National
Post by: Arriba on Tuesday, April 12, 2011, 22:37:02
i'm sure the amount of traffic early on was a factor.
likewise the pace of the race and size of the fences


Title: Re: Grand National
Post by: Don Rogers Shop on Wednesday, April 13, 2011, 08:11:38
The jockey gets a ban because the powers that be are keeping an eye on animal welfare.

The result stands cos the punters shouldnt lose out for their jockey getting the job done.


Why shouldn't thepunters lose out though? He has clearly broke the rules


Title: Re: Grand National
Post by: BANGKOK RED on Wednesday, April 13, 2011, 08:25:44
The same guy got a ban earlier this year for the same thing.

He was moaning that they aren't allowed to whip the horses enough. Obviously, the punishments are not deterrent enough.


Title: Re: Grand National
Post by: THE FLASH on Wednesday, April 13, 2011, 08:26:47
please help.

I need a website that gives the full results, finishers etc etc.

Also i placed a bet on Putney bridge....but i dont think it ran....i take it i get my stake back?

Gamblers please advise......i only bet on the footy me.


Title: Re: Grand National
Post by: Arriba on Wednesday, April 13, 2011, 08:43:16
if you bet with an online bookie the return would be automatic.if not go in and ask.


Title: Re: Grand National
Post by: DMR on Wednesday, April 13, 2011, 11:18:47
Yes Flash you shoukd get your stake back with most firms


Title: Re: Grand National
Post by: pericarp on Monday, April 9, 2012, 19:07:34
So anyone got any cheeky tips for next week? :D


Title: Re: Grand National
Post by: tans on Monday, April 9, 2012, 19:11:02
Pick the fastest horse


Title: Re: Grand National
Post by: leefer on Monday, April 9, 2012, 19:13:03
Dont back Dusty Carpet...its bound to get beat.


Title: Re: Grand National
Post by: pericarp on Monday, April 9, 2012, 19:13:30
Any useful tips?


Title: Re: Grand National
Post by: Jamiesfuturewife on Monday, April 9, 2012, 19:35:15
I'm sending out messages to the contacts I made at Cheltenham! :)


Title: Re: Grand National
Post by: pericarp on Monday, April 9, 2012, 19:35:53
I'm sending out messages to the contacts I made at Cheltenham! :)

Woop woop do share!  :D


Title: Re: Grand National
Post by: Saxondale on Monday, April 9, 2012, 19:46:52
Pick the fastest horse

Or the one that is fast and can do that jumping thing as well.


Title: Re: Grand National
Post by: pericarp on Monday, April 9, 2012, 19:48:39
Or the one that is fast and can do that jumping thing as well.

How about a really fast horse with a really heavy load. Physics in action.


Title: Re: Grand National
Post by: Simon Pieman on Monday, April 9, 2012, 22:41:21
Pick a few horses you like the look of and hope you get lucky.


Title: Re: Grand National
Post by: SuggWillSugg MBE on Monday, April 9, 2012, 22:49:12
Pick a few horses you like the look of and hope you get lucky.

Much the same as a night out for myself..


Title: Re: Grand National
Post by: Notts red on Monday, April 9, 2012, 22:49:26
Pick a few horses you like the look of and hope you get lucky.
My kids are good at this, pick nice colours and favourite numbers. They usual win more than me.


Title: Re: Grand National
Post by: Simon Pieman on Monday, April 9, 2012, 23:15:43
Much the same as a night out for myself..

Haha!


Title: Re: Grand National
Post by: pericarp on Monday, April 9, 2012, 23:21:09
Any specific horse tips?  :D


Title: Re: Grand National
Post by: DMR on Tuesday, April 10, 2012, 08:41:04
Killyglen, cos Robbie Power's the boy.


Title: Re: Grand National
Post by: STFC4LIFE on Tuesday, April 10, 2012, 18:22:34
Killyglen, cos Robbie Power's the boy.
:nod:
I will be backing Kilyglen,Shakalakaboomboom and Ballabriggs
Form goes out of the window during the national, when was the last time the favourite won it?


Title: Re: Grand National
Post by: Simon Pieman on Tuesday, April 10, 2012, 18:34:16
Three since 2005 (2010 [JF], 2008 [JF] and 2005 [F]).

You've got to go back to '98, '96 and '82 for the three favourites who have won before that. Go back further and it's even rarer.


Title: Re: Grand National
Post by: Ginginho on Wednesday, April 11, 2012, 10:25:40
I was talking to my brother last night, he fancies According To Pete.

I had an email from a customer this morning and it started by saying "According to Pete...."


IT'S A SIGN I TELLS THEE!


Title: Re: Grand National
Post by: pericarp on Wednesday, April 11, 2012, 11:04:39
I was talking to my brother last night, he fancies According To Pete.

I had an email from a customer this morning and it started by saying "According to Pete...."


IT'S A SIGN I TELLS THEE!

 :D I'll probably take a punt on it then


Title: Re: Grand National
Post by: THE FLASH on Thursday, April 12, 2012, 19:26:41
Worst race to bet on....

My old granddads advice...and he liked a regular flutter


Title: Re: Grand National
Post by: pericarp on Thursday, April 12, 2012, 19:33:03
Worst race to bet on....

My old granddads advice...and he liked a regular flutter

As in, highly unpredictable?


Title: Re: Grand National
Post by: Arriba on Thursday, April 12, 2012, 19:47:32
Treacle and Chicago Grey e/w
Think syncronised and ballabrigs wil be there or thereabouts too


Title: Re: Grand National
Post by: pericarp on Thursday, April 12, 2012, 19:53:02
Treacle and Chicago Grey e/w
Think syncronised and ballabrigs wil be there or thereabouts too

You knowledgeable person you


Title: Re: Grand National
Post by: Arriba on Thursday, April 12, 2012, 20:39:53
You knowledgeable person you

Not really, and certainly not when it comes to the national.


Title: Re: Grand National
Post by: STFC4LIFE on Thursday, April 12, 2012, 21:19:21
I had a fair bit of money on Al Ferof today, luck isn't in at the moment at all.


Title: Re: Grand National
Post by: DRS on Thursday, April 12, 2012, 21:44:56
Al Ferof was fucking awful today


Title: Re: Grand National
Post by: Chubbs on Friday, April 13, 2012, 09:37:31
Got Quiscover Fontain in the sweepstake at work. any chance?


Title: Re: Grand National
Post by: Batch on Friday, April 13, 2012, 10:40:34
Got Quiscover Fontaine in the sweepstake at work. any chance?

Who knows, its the national. Its not fancied at 50-1 but anything can happen. I got the similiarly unfancied State of play.


Title: Re: Grand National
Post by: STFC4LIFE on Friday, April 13, 2012, 11:07:11
Gone for Darlan, Silviniaco Conti and Finian's Rainbow in a treble today.


Title: Re: Grand National
Post by: kerry red on Friday, April 13, 2012, 13:07:59
Fucking typical!

Loaded on Darlan at Cheltenham and he goes and pisses up at Aintree!

Just the same years ago - I lumped on Best Mate when he first went to Cheltenham - came 2nd at 8/1 (to Sausalito Bay, if I remember correctly) and then won 3 Gold Cups in a row after that!


Title: Re: Grand National
Post by: STFC4LIFE on Friday, April 13, 2012, 14:15:57
Gone for Darlan, Silviniaco Conti and Finian's Rainbow in a treble today.
Lovely jubbley


Title: Re: Grand National
Post by: pericarp on Friday, April 13, 2012, 14:26:22
Lovely jubbley

How much did you win?


Title: Re: Grand National
Post by: kerry red on Friday, April 13, 2012, 14:34:25
Fuck it - I've got 72.42 in my Betfair account so it's all going on

Frankie Figg

in the Topham


Title: Re: Grand National
Post by: pericarp on Friday, April 13, 2012, 14:37:08
Fuck it - I've got 72.42 in my Betfair account so it's all going on

Frankie Figg

in the Topham

Good luck :(


Title: Re: Grand National
Post by: kerry red on Friday, April 13, 2012, 14:46:55
Frankie Figg my arse - more like Frankie Pigg


Title: Re: Grand National
Post by: pericarp on Friday, April 13, 2012, 14:57:29
Frankie Figg my arse - more like Frankie Pigg

 :D


Title: Re: Grand National
Post by: Arriba on Friday, April 13, 2012, 19:12:54
Had a good look this evening and gone for 3 horses e/w(could have easily picked 10)
Giles cross,Treacle and Chicago grey.


Title: Re: Grand National
Post by: pericarp on Friday, April 13, 2012, 19:24:55
Had a good look this evening and gone for 3 horses e/w(could have easily picked 10)
Giles cross,Treacle and Chicago grey.


Chicago grey seems nice.


Title: Re: Grand National
Post by: Arriba on Friday, April 13, 2012, 19:26:37
Chicago grey seems nice.

sticking a pin on a name will probably be as useful as any tip i can give.


Title: Re: Grand National
Post by: pericarp on Friday, April 13, 2012, 19:28:26
If I were to go each way, I'd pick...:

Chicago Grey
West End Rocker
Cappa Bleu
Sea Bass
According to Pete.


Title: Re: Grand National
Post by: nochee on Friday, April 13, 2012, 19:43:03
I've gone for:

Synchronised £10 win
On his own £10 win
West end rocker £2.50 e/w
Neptune collinges £2.50 e/w

My tip is, don't choose any of these as I'm an unlucky gambler and now jinxed these horses.



Title: Re: Grand National
Post by: pericarp on Friday, April 13, 2012, 19:43:49
I've gone for:

Synchronised £10 win
On his own £10 win
West end rocker £2.50 e/w
Neptune collinges £2.50 e/w

My tip is, don't choose any of these as I'm an unlucky gambler and now jinxed these horses.



Synchronised seems pretty certain. Did well in Cheltenham too.


Title: Re: Grand National
Post by: Sippo on Friday, April 13, 2012, 19:59:44
Are there any 'free' bets out there?


Title: Re: Grand National
Post by: Arriba on Friday, April 13, 2012, 20:18:16
Think Sycronised could get placed. Top weight though and the price is shit. Can't see it winning and think the same of Ballabriggs. Both will stay hence the short prices.

West end rocker is a good shout and even better if it rains


Title: Re: Grand National
Post by: Bewster on Friday, April 13, 2012, 20:28:00
I was talking to my brother last night, he fancies According To Pete.

I had an email from a customer this morning and it started by saying "According to Pete...."

IT'S A SIGN I TELLS THEE!

Going to have to back this now. Did a similar thing with Bindaree a few years back and won.


Title: Re: Grand National
Post by: Crispy on Friday, April 13, 2012, 20:39:29
I know fuck all about Horse racing, but I've been told to back West End Rocker by family members who love to study the form and all sorts. So there you have it folks, Lump on!


Title: Re: Grand National
Post by: pericarp on Friday, April 13, 2012, 20:51:51
Friend's advice:

Chicago Grey
On his own
According to Pete.

EW


Title: Re: Grand National
Post by: Boy About Town on Friday, April 13, 2012, 21:21:33
Lovely jubbley

Big thanks to you fella, only did £2.50 EW, made £50. Took your advice, my mate took the 11-1 shot after on top of me telling him about backing these three favs and he punted £3 EW. He made £750!


Title: Re: Grand National
Post by: pericarp on Friday, April 13, 2012, 21:23:43
Big thanks to you fella, only did £2.50 EW, made £50. Took your advice, my mate took the 11-1 shot after on top of me telling him about backing these three favs and he punted £3 EW. He made £750!

Nice. For your friend :clap:


Title: Re: Grand National
Post by: Boy About Town on Friday, April 13, 2012, 21:25:48
Nice. For your friend :clap:

Not nice. Hope he sorts me a beer or two tomorrow after the game!


Title: Re: Grand National
Post by: Bogus Dave on Friday, April 13, 2012, 21:28:35
Ballabriggs and shakalakaboomboom

Because i've heard of the first one, and I want to hear more of the second one


Title: Re: Grand National
Post by: STFC4LIFE on Friday, April 13, 2012, 22:13:14
Big thanks to you fella, only did £2.50 EW, made £50. Took your advice, my mate took the 11-1 shot after on top of me telling him about backing these three favs and he punted £3 EW. He made £750!
Good man, nothing really to thank me for mind, all I did was post what I was betting on.
9 times out of 10 you would have lost your money.


Title: Re: Grand National
Post by: Chubbs on Saturday, April 14, 2012, 08:35:10
I know fuck all about Horse racing, but I've been told to back West End Rocker by family members who love to study the form and all sorts. So there you have it folks, Lump on!

ive gone 5-er each way on west end rocker and same again on shakalakaboomboom


Title: Re: Grand National
Post by: dell returns on Saturday, April 14, 2012, 08:46:43
Junior has strong each way claims.

Not risking my normal bundles, just a few quid, on a race I have only backed two winners in 40+ years.


Title: Re: Grand National
Post by: Ginginho on Saturday, April 14, 2012, 08:59:28
Doing According To Pete, Treacle and Killyglen, all E/W.


Title: Re: Grand National
Post by: Bathtime on Saturday, April 14, 2012, 11:12:58
According to Pete, Chicago Grey and Shakalaka all e/w


Title: Re: Grand National
Post by: LucienSanchez on Saturday, April 14, 2012, 11:34:29
West End Rocker
Alfa Beat
According to Pete

All e/w with PP paying 5 places


Title: Re: Grand National
Post by: Sussex on Saturday, April 14, 2012, 11:58:31
Junior - e/w
Seabass - e/w
West End Rocker - e/w

Wierd Al - win
On His Own - win


Title: Re: Grand National
Post by: london_red on Saturday, April 14, 2012, 12:08:52
Gone Sunnyhillboy and Black Appalachi e/w

Got Synchronised in my office sweepstake


Title: Re: Grand National
Post by: Sussex on Saturday, April 14, 2012, 14:22:49
Poor Ruby. Flattened by Zarkander and out for rest of the day.


Title: Re: Grand National
Post by: Kinky Tom on Saturday, April 14, 2012, 14:23:57
i have shakalakaboomboom and according to pete in the sweepstake in the pub.  got a decent chance for once


Title: Re: Grand National
Post by: DMR on Saturday, April 14, 2012, 14:36:35
Poor Ruby. Flattened by Zarkander and out for rest of the day.

He's lost it atm, can't present a horse to a flight for money, thought he had an abysmal Cheltenham. Looks like he needs a holiday.


Title: Re: Grand National
Post by: Arriba on Saturday, April 14, 2012, 17:16:18
Clearly not enough has been done to make the race safer. Was brutal again


Title: Re: Re: Grand National
Post by: london_red on Saturday, April 14, 2012, 17:21:02
Indeed, synchronized and another horse put down after the race evidently?


Title: Re: Grand National
Post by: Batch on Saturday, April 14, 2012, 18:06:37
Indeed, synchronized and another horse put down after the race evidently?

According to Pete and Synchronised are at the glue factory.


Title: Re: Grand National
Post by: Arriba on Saturday, April 14, 2012, 18:18:40
I'm such a hypocrite because i love horse racing,but feel so guilty and ashamed when watching the grand national.
It was ridiculous watching that race unfold. Too many runners and the fences are to big imo.


Title: Re: Grand National
Post by: janaage on Saturday, April 14, 2012, 18:48:09
I've surprised myself at how sad I was when I heard the news about Synchronised. Going from Gold Cup winner to being put down inside a month is just wrong.  Especially with what happened pre-race. Almost feels like he didn't want to race, even when McCoy showed him the first fence prior to the race he (the horse) just didn't seem right.

Think they'll be a few questions about this.


Title: Re: Grand National
Post by: Arriba on Saturday, April 14, 2012, 20:24:34
Last years flat Phenom Frankel won't run again due to his recent injury, though is expected to make a full recovery. His spunk is going to be very valuable


Title: Re: Grand National
Post by: nochee on Saturday, April 14, 2012, 20:36:54
I just noticed that I had the winner, happy days. I only got it at 25/1 though. I saw it came in at 33's. Never mind stil the first bet I've won in just under a year


Title: Re: Grand National
Post by: Berniman on Saturday, April 14, 2012, 20:57:10
I'm such a hypocrite because i love horse racing,but feel so guilty and ashamed when watching the grand national.
It was ridiculous watching that race unfold. Too many runners and the fences are to big imo.


I am starting to feel this way, and that's not like me.


Title: Re: Grand National
Post by: Only Me on Sunday, April 15, 2012, 06:55:23
I just noticed that I had the winner, happy days. I only got it at 25/1 though. I saw it came in at 33's. Never mind stil the first bet I've won in just under a year

Nice one.  I put only £2.50 e/w on it at 33/1
 :wotjump: :wotjump: :wotjump:


Title: Re: Grand National
Post by: Jamiesfuturewife on Sunday, April 15, 2012, 08:53:00
I found out when I worked at Cheltenham how the kill the horses too which I suppose I'd never thought of before? Bit Brutal as they are such beautiful creatures


Title: Re: Grand National
Post by: Ralphy on Sunday, April 15, 2012, 08:54:52
Horses scare the crap out of me.

Amazing beasts but I'm buggered if I'd get on one and ride it at speed.


Title: Re: Grand National
Post by: Simon Pieman on Sunday, April 15, 2012, 08:57:48
Well shooting them in the head is probably as humane as you're going to get?


Title: Re: Grand National
Post by: Flashheart on Sunday, April 15, 2012, 09:26:38
Every year horses die at the Grand National
Every year the horsey types shed some tears/express grief for the cameras
Every year there's a debate about too many horses and the jumps are too big
Every year the horsey types say the horses love it but never answer why the horses are whipped
Every year people say how terrible it is and something should be done.....

Every year it's forgotten about in a few weeks and the next national goes ahead in the exact same way as all the others before it. Do bookies take bets on how many horses SURVIVE the race?


Title: Re: Grand National
Post by: janaage on Sunday, April 15, 2012, 09:49:07
Come on FH lets not get carried away. The horses are treated like royalty during their lives. A few sports have sad endings for the competitors, boxing, motorsports, even football and rugby, but you carry on.

I wonder whether they'll make a change to not allow a Gold Cup competitor race in the National in the same year? But to be honest I don't know enough about horses to know if 3/4 weeks is enough rest inbetween the races, when you factor in the training needed for the GN too.

I think I'll leave it to the powers that know more about the sport and horses to make a decision.


Title: Re: Grand National
Post by: Flashheart on Sunday, April 15, 2012, 09:53:56
I'm not getting carried away in the slightest, it's just how it is. Lots of hoo-har about horses dying after each event but nothing ever gets done, and never will.

Animals and people die in terrible conditions throughout the year, I for one and not going to kick up a stink about a particular even just because it happens to be on the telly and stuff. It's just the hypocrisy and weak excuses that I object to.



Title: Re: Grand National
Post by: Flashheart on Sunday, April 15, 2012, 10:17:07
An example of what I mean:

Quote
Professor Tim Morris, horse welfare director at the British Horseracing Authority, said the board were “very sad” about the horses’ deaths.

He admitted the Grand National was a challenging race with “inherent risks” but said everyone involved did all they could to minimise them “while maintaining the unique character of the race”.

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/uk-world-news/2012/04/15/grand-national-champion-s-death-casts-dark-shadow-over-event-86908-23825382/

That's just a lie


Title: Re: Grand National
Post by: Simon Pieman on Sunday, April 15, 2012, 10:29:03
What about the thousands of retired horses which get destroyed? Why do people only get 'angry' or upset at the time of the national.

I'm not criticising their point of view, just that it only seems apparent once a year.


Title: Re: Grand National
Post by: THE FLASH on Sunday, April 15, 2012, 11:56:59
i fucking hate horses.

got bit when i was a kid....bastards.

never trust an animal that you cannot control 100%....if they want to go they go and there is fuck all you can do.

i stick to dogs.


Title: Re: Grand National
Post by: Arriba on Sunday, April 15, 2012, 12:44:02
Deaths within horse racing will happen,but they are not expected like you know there will be in the national.
The national can remain and be a test for the horses but it does have to change.


Title: Re: Grand National
Post by: Bogus Dave on Sunday, April 15, 2012, 12:52:14
How is a broken leg such a catastrophic injury for a horse that it has to be shot in the head?


Title: Re: Grand National
Post by: Samdy Gray on Sunday, April 15, 2012, 12:58:10
Because they can't exactly rest up for 6 weeks.


Title: Re: Grand National
Post by: Bogus Dave on Sunday, April 15, 2012, 12:59:45
Why not? Sure, it may not race again, but It can still be put out to pasture.


Title: Re: Grand National
Post by: Arriba on Sunday, April 15, 2012, 13:01:00
the horses cannot get up and down, to and from sleep with a broken leg even if trying to heal it.


Title: Re: Grand National
Post by: Simon Pieman on Sunday, April 15, 2012, 13:01:41
I think Dave is asking why can't horses use crutches to keep the weight off the leg :D


Title: Re: Grand National
Post by: sonicyouth on Sunday, April 15, 2012, 13:20:56
I think they should start destroying footballers who suffer broken limbs. Sammy Igoe was too stupid to heal properly too :)


Title: Re: Grand National
Post by: Bogus Dave on Sunday, April 15, 2012, 13:45:45
I think Dave is asking why can't horses use crutches to keep the weight off the leg :D


When a dog breaks a leg it gets put on one of those wheely things. Surely it can't be beyond the wit of man to scale that up to horse size.




Title: Re: Grand National
Post by: ghanimah on Sunday, April 15, 2012, 13:48:20
When a dog breaks a leg it gets put on one of those wheely things. Surely it can't be beyond the wit of man to scale that up to horse size.




The blunt answer is it's cheaper - it'll never race again so owners cash in on the insurance.


Title: Re: Grand National
Post by: Arriba on Sunday, April 15, 2012, 13:50:23
Does anyone know what happend to Syncronised? I know he unseated his jockey but he kept running and jumping the fences i thought.


Title: Re: Grand National
Post by: Bogus Dave on Sunday, April 15, 2012, 13:53:53
The blunt answer is it's cheaper - it'll never race again so owners cash in on the insurance.

That's whats wrong with it all then


Title: Re: Grand National
Post by: Arriba on Sunday, April 15, 2012, 14:06:17
Its not down to money in the main as most owners love their horses.(though money is a factor for some i am sure)
Take Syncronised for instance, why put him down when his spunk would be worth a fortune, even if he never ran again?
Broken legs in horses can lead to all sorts of problems and are not treatable like humans or even dogs. Plenty of info available on the net about it.


Title: Re: Grand National
Post by: janaage on Sunday, April 15, 2012, 14:06:40
Does anyone know what happend to Syncronised? I know he unseated his jockey but he kept running and jumping the fences i thought.

Fell at beechers, continued without AP, then fell again at the 11th, and that was it.


Title: Re: Grand National
Post by: janaage on Sunday, April 15, 2012, 14:10:44
This is quite a sad read too, the owner seems genuinely upset about it all. Poor ol' Pete.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-york-north-yorkshire-17719966


Title: Re: Grand National
Post by: Arriba on Sunday, April 15, 2012, 14:12:59
Fell at beechers, continued without AP, then fell again at the 11th, and that was it.

A real shame


Title: Re: Grand National
Post by: joteddyred on Sunday, April 15, 2012, 14:26:06
This is quite a sad read too, the owner seems genuinely upset about it all. Poor ol' Pete.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-york-north-yorkshire-17719966

Seems strange that he was put down without consulting with the owner.  It also can't have looked that bad a fall if they were waiting for him to run in at the end?


Title: Re: Grand National
Post by: Simon Pieman on Sunday, April 15, 2012, 14:29:15
They're still treating two horses aren't they? Does go to show they aren't all killed for the sake of it.


Title: Re: Grand National
Post by: Sussex on Sunday, April 15, 2012, 14:30:43
Something like 40% of a horses bones are in their legs and the front legs take about 60% of their weight. Add to that you would never get the fucker to lay down long enough for it to heal, many sleep standing up anyway and alternate the weight giving each leg a rest, it's all a bit complicated.

Not getting in to a discussion about it. Again.



Title: Re: Grand National
Post by: janaage on Sunday, April 15, 2012, 17:24:01
Seems strange that he was put down without consulting with the owner.  It also can't have looked that bad a fall if they were waiting for him to run in at the end?

The fall at beechers (the one that the owners would have seen on tv) wasn't 'that bad', however as previously stated, the jockey less horse then fell again at the 11th, which they may not have seen, and it was that fall that let to the putting down of a champion. Well that's what I think may have happened.