Thetownend.com

I rarely find myself in the centre of Swindon these days - but sometimes walk through on my way from the pub to home games.  What strikes me is how little the place has changed since I left Swindon for the last time nearly 10 years ago.

And this is what I don't understand.  The last 10 years have seen something of an economic boom (albeit one fulled by excessive levels of credit), and neighbouring towns and cities have forged ahead with development plans of their own.  Bristol and Reading, in particular, have improved their centres immeasurably.  Even though I live nearly 20 miles away from Reading, we frequently make the trip there for shopping etc., and I have to say it's rather good.

But Swindon, a similar sized place, isn't even on the same page - and can't understand why.  Why has Swindon stagnated?  How did the boom town of the 1980s become an 'also ran'?  I don't live there any more, but have many friends who do and still have a great affection for the place (not to mention STFC).  So I find it very sad to see the town failing when, surely, it should have moved on so much more than it has.

I am just about to take me and my disposable income off to the new shopping precinct in Bristol to buy myself some new shoes and other tangible goods.

My carbon footprint is bigger than Jesus.

Its in 'progress'. They're developing the town centre.

Look at the massive 'waste of money' screen they've whacked up on the side of a car park.

Really?!

But this is my point.  I know there's some sort of plan to do something in Swindon, but nothing seems to be happening.  In the time it's taken the authorities in Swindon to put a screen up on the side of a car park, other places have built shopping centres, link roads, bars, restaurants.  Why is it that Swindon's plans remain 'in progress' while other places have gone on to complete their projects?  Like I said, I don't get it.

I think part of the problem is that generally the people of Swindon aren't bothered. They'll agree that the town centre is shit, but whenever anybody suggests something a bit different then the negativity sets in and it's all a waste of money and there's no point.

This is why the people of Swindon should be ignored and someone should be allowed to go mental, or all we'll ever end up with is identikit shopping zones.

I quite like the screen. And the canal idea.

Agreed Ardiles, if Basingstoke can manage it, Swindon should have. You have to wonder if they have left it all too late now the economy is ruined.

there are big plans to redevelop the whole of the town centre. http://www.newswindon.co.uk/regenerationAreas/

A deal was signed last month to redevelop Regent Place (morley street car park) for retail, leisure and residential use and the college at Regent circus will be replaced with bars, cafe's, hotel and a cinema.

the library is almost finished

Would that be the library I remember being talked about when I was a child in the 1980s?

It is a disgrace, I mean why hasn't that college been knocked down at the bottom of Vic Hill?  It's an eye sore of the highest order, why keep a empty derelict building standing in the centre of town like that.

I also like the canal idea, but am struggling to see why they don't use the old original route and seem to be hell bent on running it down Faringdon Road - one of the main roads into the town. There is probably a reason, but i've yet to find it.

The biggest problem imo, is Swindon is ran by a bunch of village idiots. The town progressed and grew, but the town was still being run and poorly managed by people stuck in the past, with a village mentality opposing progression.

Inevitably, growth isn't going to happen when we have a council that doesn't have a scrap of foresight or inspired thought between them. Once i get my assassin licence...

There are no builders doing any work in today's climate

Bloody global warming.

I know

its cold as fuck here this morning

Freezing i tell thee

Well i've seen tree buildings in and around the town centre that have just sprung up out of nowhere. They still ain't finished, but there's one opposite Sir Daniels Arms, one behind Brunel Shopping Centre and one where the old Ford garage used to be. Now i don't see any of them being flats, maybe shops or even a new club (the first one).

Anyone know when the Brunel Centre is being extended?

The one opposite Sir dan Arms has nowt to do with the redevelopment though does it.  The one on the old ford garage site probably is, and I'm not sure about the other one.

Hasn't work started already? Where the car wash place used to be?

Oh is that what it is, just looks like a seperate building to me. Would make sense if it was, right by it. I'm just hoping the one of them is a Carling Academy, won't happen though.

The old Ford Garage development is another Hotel - Jurys Inn I believe

Do we honestly need that many hotel rooms?!

no way??? The jurys rep said that was due to open this month????

I heard that as well, it's got about 200 rooms so must be fairly big. Thing is it's preety much right by menzies and travel lodge so will be a struggle for them.

I like it also how the developers have said the old college was going to be knocked down by Summer 2008 and the shops, cafe's etc were going to be completed by Spring 09.
That target was never going to be reached...

It's always pretty difficult to get visitors booked in during the week LS.

No chance of it being open this month, either that or the guests are gonna have to use a ladder to get to there rooms and gonna be a bit chilly with the lack of windows etc.

Be lucky to be open before Christmas i'd say

The Jury's out on this one then ?

ahhh Hartwell Swindon - I used to work at the Chippenham branch - that too is now houses

I stand corrected, said the man (me) in the orthopaedic shoes...

We can but dream!

Apologies for bumping this thread, but I find the news in today's Adver quite depressing.

http://www.swindonadvertiser.co.uk/news/4415540.Small_is_the_new_big_idea_for_town_centre/

Sounds like they've thrown the towel in with the admission that Swindon should not now even try to compete with the towns and cities that neighbour it.  It's as good as an admission of failed planning policies during the last few decades.

it's a fucking disgrace.they dont even want to compete with reading and bristol.
this towns only saving grace is that we are only a few mins drive from the countryside

It's also home to by far the greatest team the world has ever seen...but otherwise, I agree (& despair).

and thats been shit since the mid ninetees

Good news about a possible music venue though. In fact i'd rather that than loads of shops anyway.

As long as there is some kind of quality control I think looking at moving towards a Town Centre with lots small independant shops would make it a more interesting place than the identikit enourmous shopping Malls like those in Bristol and Reading.

A bit unfortunate regarding the developer, nothing could be done about that and I don't think they'll get much interest from others in this climate. Maybe best to put it on hold for a couple of years. And I can see what they're getting at in a way, we need to cater for the people of Swindon first and foremost and not simply build a shopping centre to be the biggest.

We certainly need more restaurants but I'm unsure whether the people of Swindon will go for expensive chain restaurants. A dediated music venue is needed. I don't know why they just don't buy the bingo hall and use that though, or turn the old railway museum into a music venue. I'd much prefer it if Swindon was more culturally diverse (or at least accessible) to ages groups than having a multiple of generic high street stores with the same stock.

A supermarket development? Got to be having a laugh about that hasn't he? That's the last thing we need, besides the site actually has an Iceland on it already.

The redevelopment of the Brunel Centre (including the Granville Street car park) has been on / off for about 8 years or so. The original plans were immense to say the least when Westfield owned it, they were on about a John Lewis going in as a flagship store opposite Woolworths. It looked good on paper but anyone who saw the plans would agree it was complete bollocks and doomed to fail - at the time they couldn't even rent out shops in the Brunel Centre despite practically giving them away (about £6k a year for the units above Virgin).

Pretty certain the bingo hall at Regent Circus is owned by the council and they won't grant long term leases as they're planning to redevelop it - which is why the bingo company walked away. Never been in there but I'd imagine it would make a good music venue which the town desperately needs but the council don't seem to show much interest in the idea.

The big problem I see is that whilst they say to the contrary, there doesn't seem to be a big plan in place - just individual piecemeal developments, most of which never come off. I was working in Basingstoke when they started their redevelopment and they had the right idea. They put together a plan and funding for a complete rebuild and then did it - pretty much demolishing the entire city centre in the process.

The biggest problem though is that no one really gives a fuck about any of it, especially the residents of Swindon - me included. I hardly ever go in to the town centre to shop, everything you need is available in out of town retail parks without the hassle of traffic and extortionate car parking charges. If you want something better you've got Bath, Reading, Oxford, Bristol all within a 30 minute or so drive.

There's been numerous rumours of SBC blocking the use of the bingo hall for a music venue. The latest thing I heard was it was actually down to some sort of structural assessment and the hold up around that but the council were actually keen.  Who knows? But I get the feeling SBC don't want it and especially because they feel they've got a good thing going at the Oasis now, but it's really a sports hall.

I also agree with the rest of your post. That's the reason the library took so long to do (it looks great but why so long?!!) and the fact we're 10 years behind the schedule for the rest of the redevelopment.

I get the feeling most people in Swindon don't really care, but like to have a moan all the same. For the amount of moaning I here about the shopping/nightlife/lack of things to do/chavs/crumby town centre you'd think they'd just move away to a nearby town which is prettier and more culturally diverse (Reading hahaha!). The ones that don't care and get on with it don't annoy me at all.

I agree with that, why follow the blue print of huge souless centres, Reading used to be great before the oracle, now it's just somewhere like Bluewater, to avoid at all costs. Some thought put into it properly would give everyone a decent alternative, and there are lots who would do anything to avoid the current concrete consumer crapholes.

Living just outside MK and seeing new developments all over the place catering for all sorts of tastes does make me wonder what SBC have been up to, Swindon was the richest town in the country and should have done more to make the place desirable, that for me includes backing STFC.

The centre in MK, while it has everything you need really, is like all the other indoor centres in the UK, if you look at places like Leeds and Nottingham where most of the shopping is outside you see how to really go about creating a place people enjoy, the music scene in both these places is good too and there are plenty of restaurants around.

I like alfresco.

Probably the biggest problem with the town centre at present is the amount of out of town retail developments that have been allowed to go ahead over the last 10 years - I'm not sure the town centre will ever recover from the amount of footfall its lost as a result. The first thing they need to do is to put an immediate stop to any further out of town retail development and concentrate on building the town centre back up.

Getting Ikea in to the town centre would be a good first move, worth the council doing everything they can to make it happen. That would pull a massive number of people in to the town centre and lead to other retailers following suit.

Cavendish square will be complete soon.What you all moaning at.

I haven't lived in the Swindon area for years,so i'm not up to date with things,but from some things
that i've heard, the town centre really needs something that is the epicentre and focus for visitors
and shoppers.

I'd love to see an indoor market in Swindon,other towns and cities in the country have them and they
bring a real focus to their centres.From what i understand there's a farmers market at the Outlet Village,
why not bring that into the town centre either during the week or at  weekends eg.Sunday or even
encourage a two centre farmers market and expand it?

Apparently, it only has up to 20 stalls,which is pathetic,the one at Winchester which i like to go to,has
up to 120 stalls,so it can be done over a period of time,believe me.Shoppers don't just use the markets
they also go into other shops and retail outlets,so it can be a win win situation all around.

I've done some browsing and found this in the Adver from march 09.

http://www.thisiswiltshire.co.uk/news/4163681.Swindon_Market_could_be_re_opened/

To be fair, the bit around house of fraser don't look too shabby, especially with the massive tv screen

It's definitely improved since Maccy D's changed from red to black.

The tented market which has no market is a travesty though.

I didn't even know it had been closed. I'd say good riddance though, that place was a shit hole.

Not sure if they're still doing it but they used to have farmer / french markets in the town centre all the time.

Havelock St should be pushed towards getting a few decent cafe's, it's got the makings of a decent little alfresco dining option for the Town Centre.

Replace the old Bingo hall with a music venue as has been mentioned, and link up Theatre Sq & Regent Circus with a few decent restaurants and you've got somewhere worth making a trip to past 5pm (Foxies may need relocating mind).

Encourage specialist independents into the shops from H&M up towards the Savoy.

Pedestrianise the bit infronf of the Town Hall and create a sort of plaza feel - the Dance Studios would no doubt love to have a little outside space dedicated to giving shows in good weather.

Sort out a replacement for the Bus Terminal, linking it to the train station with a few shops and the like.

See if a Cinema would like the car park below the Wyvern along with a few restaurants.

Sorted for the next few years I wuld guess, and most of it wouldn't cost a fortune.  Give it a few years and a developer will go for the College site, especially with a 6 storey building already there and planning permission granted for one 17 stroey's high.

Everyone says this, but how would you do it in practice?

Lower business rates isn't an option as they're not controlled at local government level. I can't see anything happening with lowering rents either, who would take the hit and how would you decide who got them?

Even if you did manage to sort out rates and rents its still unlikely to make any difference as what you really need is footfall - if the shoppers are there the independents will open up.

What do we want, Nandos, when do we want it. Now. Subject to SBC planning permission, dithering and other delaying tactics.

When even Basingstoke town centre takes the piss out of Swindons, you know things are bad.

They need to get the college building demolished. Now.

Agreed. Even if they can't afford to build anything there just yet, at least knock it down.

Knocking it down would be risky. At the moment it makes the rest of the town look nice in comparison.

Not really. Not with the new library across the road now.

I think the new library looks quite nice.

It's a tough one for sure, which is why I'm not in charge of a massive commercial property portfolio I suppose.  What is controllable is the environment around it, the parking costs, transport links etc.  At the moment it has an ideal bus entry point but no other reason to pull you back up that way.  Converting the current car turning circle at the Town Hall into something worthy of drawing attraction, improving the visitor attractions in that area by opening a concert hall (in addition to the Dance studios and Theatre) and a couple of chain restaurants to beign with should help.   Then you have to find a way of imposing some sort of restrictions on the are itself to ensure the right tenants are brought in when they feel like taking the plunge - i.e not an Offy, not a Fruit machine den, not Poundland etc.

It's the key area of the Town for me, it's the point where it dies and it allows the cheap and tacky to spread (there is room for these shops but not concentrated in one area).  Get that right and the top of town starts to bridge with the much nicer Old Town area, and all of a sudden you get a decent days trekking up and down the hill joining the two.  It's probably more important than solving the pub issue around Bridge St, which can be solved by preventing anymore and waiting for an improvement in the economy to drag in a few shops to fill out the area.

Ha ha I think what I was getting at is that now with the new library it actually doesn't make the rest of that area look nice.

It's still there though, albeit empty. It's like a turd burgler had his way with the tented market.

You've lost me there - what the fuck is that supposed to mean?

So not much to do then?

Apologies for continually resurrecting this thread, but I've lived out of town for some years now and I've just seen this...

http://www.swindon.gov.uk/j51312_supplementary_planning_document.indd.pdf

Has anyone else seen the sheer scale of the development planned for east Swindon?!  I'm gobsmacked that - with massive developments planned in the south and east of town (to complement those already built in the north and west) - there's so little ambition for the centre.

Planners need to think very carefully what they're creating.  Swindon will cover a huge area in 20 years from now and, if they're not careful, will have no discernable centre or heart.  If the suburban developments do go ahead, the centre needs a massive overhaul.  Talk of market stalls and local shops for local people doesn't really cut it.

Agreed Ardiles...my way of thinking is that Town Centres will soon be a thing of the past....these areas ware massive building projects are occuring need there own identitys and shops etc.....its how it used to work..and i feel it was better for communitys,i live in Stratton and really with the state the Town centre is in i dont really want to or need to go to Swindon centre...yes a civic area..a nice hotel and something cultural like a venue for art and music....but more trashy shops pubs or takeaways...not for me.

That plan suggests that the retail development will be more like Old Town and Gorse Hill, rather than West Swindon or North Swindon (Orbital). It also specifically states it mustn't compete with the Town Centre. I guess we're a bit fortunate in Swindon, as with all the future expansion it gives us a chance to re-generate the Town Centre (with increased usage) provided we stop the out of town developments.

Though I quite like the idea of demolishing large chunks of the houses in the Town Centre and replacing them with apartment blocks. It will increase the population in the Town Centre and reduce some of the need to expand outwards. Plus it would mean we can get rid of all the shit houses and areas.

The point I was making, though, was that with all these developments, I'm amazed that no one seems to think that a vastly improved town/city centre is viable.  Apart from a little tinkering around the edges, the current town centre is not vastly different in scale or style from the way it was in the early 1980s.  It was built for the needs of a town that extended as far west as Rodbourne and as far north as Greenmeadow.

Since then, there have been massive developments in North Swindon and West Swindon and now there are further plans in the south and east.  When those are built, the urban area will be roughly on a par with Reading's...but the town centre will be nothing like Reading's in terms of either its built environment or the facilities it will offer.  It doesn't add up.

If you continue building out in to the countryside and fail to address the failing core of the town, in time you will simply create the slum of the future.

There are quite a few re-developments either planned or talked about for the town centre which will happen at some point, such as re-development of the shopping centre, new bus / train station, Regent Circus, a new theatre / arts centre. Plus there are a few large chunks of land with things planned.

The biggest problem is all the out of town development which keeps people away from the town centre. Stop that and as the population increases more and more people will go to the town centre, once they are there the investment will follow. From what I've read this is the way forward for councils, as opposed to some years ago when they were doing the opposite.

Jonny you have hit the nail right on the head "talked about - will happen at some time"  "things planned"  - just when we will see it start to happen?  Now everyb ody is blaming the recession, but these things were planned and the land made available long before we had heard of Icelandic banks!

They should build an O2 Academy (nee Carling Academy) type music venue :)

They should knock the whole thing down and turn it into an IKEA

AMG (who run the academies) are opening a new birmingham academy to replace the current one and also opening a brighton academy sometime soon (its been a long running saga with that one).  After that I reckon there quite a few towns they'll go for before Swindon(unfortunately).

I'd love them to open one.  Itll be a few years though!

When the money is available I'd imagine - the vast majority of it won't come from the council so they are reliant upon others coming up with it. The Regent Circus and main shopping centre developments have fallen through as the developers have gone bust and the cash isn't there anymore. I'd imagine the rail / bus station re-development will be largely financed by the government and they'd need some convincing.

Getting a university would be a big boost, but I can't see that happening any time soon thanks to all the fucking tree huggers we seem to attract.

Oakfield would be ideal for a uni.

 :soapy tit wank:

Jonny, we missed out in the 2002-2007 property boom, where other town centres really kicked on and got investment.

I think it will be another 10 years before anyone has the confidence to implement the sort of plans that they were talking about for Swindon.

Missed the boat. (again).

Their latest one is to build new house is the likes of Park, Liden, Penhill etc

Where the hell are they going to find space in these areas for new houses unless they start building on the green land.

At the moment Swindon Council seem to be able to talk the talk but seem to be struggling to walk the walk...all talk no action.

It's the Tory PR machine in action again, it starts at the top with Cameron and comes down to dear old Rod Bluh - did he go to Eton as well?

There was talk of 10,000 new houses aroung Convingham and Wanborough.

My major criticism of SBC, Tory or Labour led, is that it seems hellbent on building houses yet the amenities need to be so much better in order to justify the extra population. At least when West Swindon was built they gave us the Link Centre, but the overall town needs something more.

It's incredible the library only just got sorted out. Why Swindon College was left to rot instead of being knocked down straight away is a mystery. Wouldn't surprise me if vandals set the whole place alight before 2010.

well that's got me thinking.

Vandalism and fire are close friends and also a great laugh. I'm sure a few pints of both beer and petrol could make for a seriously ace night around a pretty spectacular fire.

SBC has little to no say in the number of houses that have to be built, it all comes from central government. By the time it gets to local planning the ship has sailed for complaints - the houses have to go somewhere.

I reckon there is plenty of scope for them to put more housing in existing residential areas, by bulldozing what is already there and rebuilding better - especially more apartment blocks. If they're talking about squeezing more houses in they are on another planet.

But where are the extra amenities to go with the housing?

Its not just amenities, the whole basic infrastructure of the town hasn't changed with the increase in population.

I think you're missing the point, Jonny.  The extra 10,000 houses (or 12,000. the last I heard) are not going to be built in Covingham or Wanborough, but on land between the two.  The development being discussed covers a huge area to the east of the A419 and would extend Swindon a long way out to the east.  Areas like Covingham and Nythe would no longer border countryside as they do now, but would be surrounded on all sides by other suburbs - much like Gorse Hill and Greenmeadow are now.  Follow the link for more detail.

http://www.swindon.gov.uk/j51312_supplementary_planning_document.indd.pdf


I couldn't agree with you more on that point.  One of the reasons that the centre of Swindon is failing so badly at the moment is that it has not grown with the town.  The town centre is tiny and not able to support the needs of the present population of Swindon (let alone the future population following further expansion).

I am not holding up the IDR in Reading as a masterpiece of urban design, but in terms of infrastructure something on a similar scale was required in Swindon decades ago, and it never happened.  As a result, Swindon continues to shamble along and lose out to its neighbours.  It's such a shame.

I may have not read the article in the Adver this week properly but my understanding was that there are now two options for the 10,000 new houses; the eastern development (which you refer to) or squeezing them in with existing developments (primarily in the east - Park, Liden, Covingham etc).

OK, thanks.  Didn't know that.

I don't see why we need to compare ourselves to neighbouring towns, just need to concentrate on getting it right in our place.

Why not just bulldoze Penhill & Pinehurst and build some "apartments" there, I'm sure some of the more unsavory characters that live there will love them

swindon is already too big.

I reckon bulldozing and replacing with apartments / houses is the way forward, especially in the town centre. It should help improve the dodgy areas plus all the infrastructure is already in place so the money can be spent on upgrading and improving it. Plus there should be some money left over to help renovate the town centre more.

Makes a lot more sense than continually expanding outwards.

Ah yes,
Ah yes, a nice big apartment block and lets call it the project to give that really classy feel... West Baltimore mkII...

Economic growth theories suggest otherwise. And that's the kind of theory that the local council will be following. More people = more economic activity = more activity = 'better town'

Yeah, but there are hundreds of abandoned/unsold/reposessed houses in the north swindon development.

They need to have people living in those before they build another 10,000 in the east.

Im a first time buyer. Took a look at a 3 story, 3 bedroom, 2 toilet house in Redhouse. Reposessed, on the market for £136,000. But I wouldnt want a house up there. The infrastructure isnt right, thamesdown drive is a pain. Just difficult to get anywhere. Looking in west Swindon, a much better development.

I like it - having an area called "The Projects". Plus to be fair, when "The Projects" were first built I'd imagine they weren't that bad - they just deteriorated over time, much like the bad areas in Swindon. 

The projects were the cheapest type of housing the american government could get away with building.

Redhouse is quite a good area i'd have thought. Good transport links by road and good stuff near by

we should just build one of these. Government get their housing and Swindon keeps their green space. everybody wins.  :)


[url width=900 height=675]http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3321/3657121986_a4a74c33d6_b.jpg[/url]

Only if we build two smaller ones on either side so it looks like Swindon is flipping the bird at Oxford.

[url width=125 height=220]http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d35/flammableben/ArcoB.jpg[/url]

hahaha awesome ben. i do love SimCity

Blimey, you are right......must be all of two miles away!

I think its either end of Thamesdown Drive that is the problem. If you head down it towards West Swindon during rush hour its a nightmare, massive tail backs once you leave it. Not a problem with Thamesdown Drive, just the fucking stupid excuse for traffic management and road planning that comes after it - primarily roundabouts where there should be traffic lights.

Abbey Meads is the worst. You never know where the fuck your going up there. All looks the same and the layout is truly awful. In fact most parts of the Northern development are pretty poorly planned.

Say what you want about the USA, but having all your roads running horizontally and vertically makes it a piece of piss to get to where you want to with a minimum of fuss. Especially when you number them as well. Its nigh on impossible to get lost, even for women.

The Bridgemead roundabout (with traffic light system) is where the tailbacks are in West Swindon which backs it up to Thamesdown Drive. I don't think it's the roundabouts it's the volume of traffic.

The only thing that pisses me off about Thamesdown Drive, aside from it looking the same either side for the entire stretch, is the endless sets of lights. Very Southampton-like in that respect.

My biggest bug bear with North Swindon is that it's just so poorly connected with the rest of town.  Thamesdown Drive effectively forms an arc across the top of what used to be the outskirts of town and the only way you can go anywhere is to go east or west on the dual carriageway before making your way in to town from there.

The plans for 'East Swindon' (™ Ardiles 2009 - you heard it first here) when it eventually gets built look like having the same problem.  Massive development, miles from the centre of town and with no direct through route between the two.

Designed to slow the traffic down.

What the lights? Surely they're just at every junction Sipps?

Yeah the lights were put in to slow traffic. We lived in burghley park before the road was built, and that was put to us at the planning meetings. I know they're annoying to fuck, but that was the reason.

I don't think I've ever seen a tailback from Bridgemead to Thamesdown Drive. From what I see all the queues are caused by the roundabouts and the smaller roads that feed on to them - these have priority, so a small trickle of traffic from them slows the main road down. I see it every evening at the Total garage, I join the road from Shaw and get straight on to it whilst there is a massive tailback on the left. Same thing happens a couple of roundabouts down.

Roundabouts only really work if you have a similar traffic flow from each road, if you don't then things can get real fucked up.

I work on Westmead Drive, there are tailbacks every day, usually in the morning though. It's all the people trying to get onto the dual carriageway.

The roads around those parts really aren't built for traffic, a major flaw with the Shaw Tip stadium plan in my opinion.

I remember seeing a plan years ago, before North Swindon was built, for the road links that would need to be built to support the expansion.  The road that would become Thamesdown Drive was clearly shown.

BUT, only half of the originally planned road has been built.  The original plan would have seen Thamesdown Drive continue past the point where it currently stops near Burghley Park/Moredon and continue in a south-easterly direction to meet the roundabout next to the railway bridge where Rodbourne Road meets the Great Western Way.

If this dual carriageway had been completed as actually planned, I doubt you would now be having anything like as many problems as you are now having in the Westlea area.  Mead Way has now become a main route from North Swindon in to the middle of town (as a result of the failure to complete the North Swindon link), but it was never designed for this purpose...hence the problems.

They need to either finish the road they never built or turn Mead Way in to a dual carriageway (which should just about be possible). This is typical of the problem with expansion in Swindon, they don't bother upgrading the existing infrastructure to handle the increased traffic.

Nearly as bad as the infamous Swindon "ring road", no one really knows what or where it is except for the few random mentions on a number of road signs.

I remember seeing those plans.

They could at least improve the god damn traffic light sequencing off peak to ensure I don't have to stop at every frakking traffic light to give priority to non-existent cars joining Thamesdown Drive

It's like London, Batch. I doesn't matter if there's no cars on the road, you're still stopping at every single set of lights.

You realise that is done deliberately?

The logic at the time was that it made you stop and start more often, so burning more petrol and raising more income via duty for the government. So they banned local councils from sequencing lights for a straight drive. I believe they have now removed this rule (or were talking of removing it) but I don't think anything has happened in Swindon yet.

I'm still in disbelief that they did this in the first place when they go on about their green credentials all the time.

I had heard that, I've always assumed that to be urban legend.

Regardless, there is no excuse not to change it.

Slightly off the thread, but not by much - obviously Swindon Council made headlines a while back by announcing they would remove speed cameras - I don't come back much now, has this happened and has it made a difference to traffic flow?

They have been saying for a couple of years that Swindon has been majorly neglected in terms of transport infrastructure.

But then its our council's/politicians fault for not shouting loud enough.

No, my ol dear got caught doing 38mph on Oxford road last week by the camera at the Toys r us end.

Bump (again).

Today's news...town centre managers are to advertise Swindon to residents of Bristol and other nearby places.

http://www.swindonadvertiser.co.uk/news/4550688.Billboard_battle_for_shoppers/

Apparently, this isn't a wind up either.

Meh

So how much money will be wasted on that instead used for actually getting this regeneration going?

I was down there earlier. Pretty lively.

Swindon Town Centre has turned into a sh1t hole over the past few years, and now all the shops there that are standing empty make it even worse.

Wopuld it not be good for the council to reduce the rents to get shops in until this regeneration get's underway (probably in 2090 knowing Swindon Council) and the town get's made better and they are able to attract decent chains.

At this rate the Town will be empty of more shops soon as customers will be going elsewhere ot find some better shops.

Swindon Council need to seriously pull their finger out.

Were you down there looking for Soton fans? 

The properties are privately owned and rents vary quite significantly depending on exact location in town.

Yeah was out fighting.

Nah, went down to the story time reading thing under 5's. The library is pretty ace.

what storys did they read? did you curl up and go to sleep?

I thought you had more sophisticated reading habits than that mate.

I'm off to the library in a minute, those little tackers can get quite nasty.

I'll make a hasty passage through the ground floor.

Dear Zoo is probably the greatest literary work of the last 30 years.

Story time is ace  :) The summer reading challenge is on at the moment [aka Questseekers].Amazing how much kids still even in this modern age love getting stickers!

The Gruffalo is paying a visit in Spetember Ben  8)

September? They said he was coming next week!

Oh,his visiting was mentioned in the meeting Saturday,all i heard was the 3rd of september,but it must have been another thing  :-[

I do tend to faze out,the meetings happen at 9am on a saturday morning for gods sake  ;)

I saw the advert for film version of Where the wild things are.Looked suitable mad i thought  :)

Maybe he's coming twice. Or I misheard. Who knows.

FFS, Can the Swindon Council get any more stupid? Why the fuck would anyone travel from Reading, Oxford, Bristol, or Bath to shop in Poundland and have a Greggs for lunch?

I'm on my way.

The Gruffalo sure loves Swindon!

The Gruffalo would

Welcome to Swindon home to the highest rate of teenage pregnancies & unemployment in britain.

Our town centre is one of the worst run down shit holes in the whole of britain, in fact Springburn is Glasgow probably looks more appealing than Swindon.

This town has become a souless heap of steaming poo and the catalyst was the closure of the rail works.  There's jsut been no re-investment into it.

Let's be honest who in their right mind would be attracted to our town centre business wise or personal that has nothing to offer them?

You can't even go into the town centre at night of a weekend without get your head stoved in just because you walked home on your own.

SBC even hired a bunch of cowboys to handle the redevelopment of the town centre because they were the cheaper option.

Bulldoze the lot and start over IMO

Whenever i've walked home on a night out i've never encountered any trouble.

Nor me, Swindon is no worse or no better than any other Town/City in Britain.

Most of that is bullshit...just like the stuff this fella posts on thisis.

Haha i did wonder how the closure of the rail works was the death knell for the town, what with it attracting global businesses ever since.

The towns fine, its only really the square mile in the middle that looks a bit shabby. The exact opposit of slough.

I think this person sums up our town centre perfectly

Burke Shelley, Near Swindon says...
6:00pm Tue 18 Aug 09

I really hope that inSwindon and Swindon Borough Council really, in their heart of hearts realise this: there is nothing in Swindon town centre whatsoever to attract shoppers from the likes of Bath, Bristol, Oxford, Reading etc. These places already have the range of shops Swindon has, and more. Also, each of these places offers a more attractive environment, both in terms of architecture, culture, sight-seeing and a less tangible aspect - atmosphere. Swindon town centre is, as so many agree on here, a dump. It is dirty, litter-strewn and depressing to be in. Hordes of youths congregate shouting and swearing outside Debenhams (the only quality shop in the town besides M&S) whilst bored office workers (what's left of them) gossip outside Zurich smoking, making it impossible to get from the bus station to The Parade without copping a lungful. Once you get there you get accosted by someone begging money, by way of a guitar and a hungry dog, and then someone in a fleece from either a utility company or a no-win no-fee mob will try to fleece you. If your will to live lasts as long as getting to the crossroads of Canal Walk and Regent Street someone will either (depending on the day) try to trust a bible into your hand, or you will be 'serenaded' by a godawful Jim Reeves C&W cabaret act or the Peruvian band from The Fast Show - if only they were as funny.

You then look up to the Jubilee Clock and think, oh my, is it only 09:08?

Please, inSwindon and Swindon Borough Council, do not waste money on advertising this town centre. You cannot pretend that it is anything other than what it really is - shabby and unattractive, full of boarded-up units, pound shops and the identikit outlets to be found on any high street in the country.

You get youths/religious nutters hanging around town centres in most places. Reading is no different to Swindon in that respect.

RJack - that is pretty accurate I would say.  I grew up in Swindon and lived there for a long time, but when I come back and have a mooch around the town centre I do find it hopefully depressing.  Its such a shame because geographically and economically the town is pretty well off.  The number of years that the main library spent in a portacabin spoke volumes.  

I've lived in Town 30 odd years and it's still stuck in the 70's. Years have gone by and nothing has materialised other than empty promises and let downs with regards to making it a better place.

Todays article in the adver just shows how deluded Simon Jackson of inSwindon is  :(

I would rather the money was spent on the town centre than advertising. I guess there's a bit of a catch 22 when it comes to the shops which occupy the units in town - cheapo stores won't attract outsiders in but the types of stores that will do not generally do very well. House of Fraser is a good example, it's now an outlet store which is not in the outlet village. Add to that Matalan Clearance, I guess the people of Swindon favour a bargain rather than spending more for better choice and quality.

Same as restaurants really, people value cheaper food with bigger portions over expensive high quality, Cosmos being a recent example.

I stopped off at Cabots Circus yesterday with the family. It was very impressive. Loads of places to eat and the bogs were superb.  
If Swindon thinks it can compete with Brizzle then its seriuosly deluded. In fact their advertising could well have the reverse affect as if somebody does come to Swindon town centre then they will tell all their mates what a soulles shit hole it is.  
I'm Swindon born and bred but we've got the shittiest town centre I have seen.

Very true.  I think (and I've not lived in Swindon for 7 years, so please correct me if I am wrong) that the town shouldn't be trying to compete with Bristol.  What Swindon really lacks is a "hook".  Bristol has its size and therefore the best shops.  Bath has its culture, architecture and history.  Ditto for, dare I say it, Oxford.  Swindon as present just doesn't offer anything different.

Don't get me wrong, I always pride myself as a Swindonian and love the town, but the town centre is pretty poor.  I've always had a soft spot for the pubs of Old Town though.

And with New Look pulling out of the town to go to North Swindon that will be another big shop borded up and gone out of town

Does it really matter...much of the Town Centre was originally housing, a number of streets being bulldozed and lost like Catherine Street, Mill Street, Carr Street, Brunel Street, Oriel Street....while other truncated like Turl Street, Byron Street.  If the economy can't sustain shopping through the traditional outlets, then build houses.

New look is moving out.Bloody hell  :(

Thats where i have to shop i'm too poor to go anywhere else.And they do nice size nine shoes.

Worst.News.Ever.

Completely agree.  As I said in the very first post in this thread (back in October) I left Swindon 10 years ago and what really strikes me is that during those 10 years practically nothing has changed.  Yes - there have been a few new flats and some cosmetic work has been done here and there.  But nothing substantial.

The town centre as it stands should have been given a major overhaul as long as 15 years ago.  It didn't happen, and Swindon is now paying the price...now so far off the pace that even the chap charged with overseeing the development has admitted that emulating places like Reading is no longer an option.

When I was a kid living in Swindon in the 1980s, no one that I knew went to Bristol or Reading to spend their cash.  Not any more.  There has been catastrophic mismanagement over a long period of time and, to be honest, I am surprised there is not more of an outcry.

On the plus side there are still 2 Matalan stores, one even cheaper than the other.

Ardiles your post sums it up to perfection, I love swindon but its laughable. How the fuck did it think it could compete for city staus a few years ago with the likes of Brighton is beyond me.

Exactly, we would never have got the gay vote!

I know - I just assumed they would stay in town as well as be by ASDA since they have not long been in that new shop??

Oh well at least I have Nam New Look

Was going to go to The Oracle to do some Christmas shopping tonight until a colleague pointed out that Festival Place (Basingstoke) is only 10 miles down the road from our offices.

I'm not usually one to put Swindon down but the difference is night and day. Aside from one small corner of the shopping centre every unit was occupied. A good couple of hundred shops and a decent variety.

It's pitiful how a town half the size of ours puts us to shame. I've always know Swindon was behind on the shopping front but this highlights how far behind we are.

I lived in Basingstoke when they built that. They basically knocked down 60-70% of the town centre and started again, done over the course of a couple of years.

The old Basingstoke town centre was much worse than Swindon is now. Their council recognised this and did something. Ours did nothing and now the financial landscape has changed detrimentally.

That said, the new Morrisons/Cinema development seems to be a small step in the right direction.

Its not all good in Basingstoke, we may have a shit fountain, but they have the Wote Street willy:

[url width=333 height=500]http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3218/3144639539_14eb2a9f6c.jpg[/url]

I would agree with this, but it's interesting that the planners in Leeds have taken the opposite view in the intervening years since your post.  This will be finished in the Spring:

[url width=500 height=421]http://www.thedrum.com/uploads/drum_basic_article/92229/main_images/TrinityLeeds.jpg[/url]

Still think I rate Reading over Basingstoke, Si (both within 20 to 30 mins for us) - but take your point.  How does somewhere like Basingstoke - half the size of Swindon and with roughly the same kind of demographic - manage to develop a decent town centre, while Swindon is still sitting there with its civic thumb up its arse looking gormless?

The sad thing is that this thread is now 3 or 4 years old.  Go back to the first few pages and read the comments from 2008 & 2009.  Other than the demolition of the old College building, nothing seems even to have changed since then.  OK, recession, I know.  But even still.

Hey, the Jury's Inn mentioned on Page 2 opened as well. Their food is a bit average though, wish someone had mentioned that in 2008.

I wonder if the 'old college project' will actually finish? Wonder how long it will actually take.

The council have wasted money in our town centre - the TV and the water fountain just to mention those.

I agree about the town centre....although it has changed a lot since I left in 1973!!!  Coming back now, it comes across as a mess; but it seems to me it is a classic case (whatever the Council have or have not done) of the centre being killed off by developments on the edges, whether its the Outlet Centre - which is as good a design as any I know - or the Orbital District centre, or any of the other smaller centres, they make it less and less attractive to come into the centre, and if people are not spending money in the centre, no-one will put much effort into developing it, particularly now when local authorities are having to cut, cut and cut again.

SBC have been far, far too slow with commercial & retail development but all too quick, with the help of central government, to grant permission for housing development. It's surprising that the council have racked up £92m worth of borrowing when there must have been a whole heap of developer cash sloshing around from the North Swindon development. Where's that gone?

I guess they blame lack of cash for the lack of action. The only developments that have taken place have been superficial asthetic improvements like the train station, which I suppose is because they are cheap but really are just a waste of money.

I think I read somewhere last week that the first brick for the Regent Circus development is due to be laid next year. That'll be nearly seven years since the college closed.

The first developments on Union Square should be complete next year too. Well, a car park and apartment block at least. They still need to demolish the bus station and Carfax Street area. All too often we see ultra ambitous plans from the council that never come to fruition. Brunel expansion anyone?

Of course we've now got plans for the Oasis/North Star development too which also look promising. One advantage here is that it's already in private ownership, but I wonder how long this will take to get off the ground too.

The problem with most of the town centre shopping area is that it isn't council owned and therefore they cannot define how the space is utilised (other than by blocking a specific type of development I guess).

All the new proposed developments are on council owned land. The big idea is to connect the Carfax Street/Zurich builing side with the Debenhams side and have a nice shiny new walkway all through it all (hence why the outside of the train station has been done). Oh and add a bit of height to the buldings too. If it does happen, I think the Zurich side could look pretty good but I'm unsure about all the new apartments they're proposing to build.

It's a nice idea, but I reckon by the time it's finished, the older parts which have been built or are being built now are going to look a bit shit :)

It's a good start, I suppose.  That area of town is probably the area most needing attention.  It's been a bit of a bombsite for years and, if it had been left neglected for a few more, you have to wonder how much longer the likes of Zurich would choose to stay in the area.  The shabbier the area becomes, the more likely a relocation to a shiny new out of town complex becomes.  Lose the lunchtime footfall from offices like these and you might as well shut the town centre down for good.

But it has to be just the start.  The main shopping centre was built in the 1970s for a much smaller town and no longer does its job (as demonstrated by the increasing number of Swindon people who now do their shopping in the 'burbs or in other nearby towns/cities).  And when you consider that there is nothing in the Brunel centre and surrounding streets of any particular architectural merit, the wrecking ball (Basingstoke) approach is probably the best way forward.  As Si says though, that area is owned not by SBC but by an investment fund - which appears more than happy to sweat the asset for a while longer, letting it continue as a low cost, low maintenance cash cow.

That's capitalism, I guess.  It's just a shame that one consequence of this is that local Swindon people are having to make do with amenities that are, clearly, well short of what they could be.  The town is still growing so fast and you have to wonder whether, eventually, there will be a tipping point where it becomes a complete no-brainer for the investment funds to start from scratch and build something on a scale that Swindon has never seen before.  Or maybe the boat has already sailed, and Swindon is always going to be somewhere that caters only to the most basic needs of its inhabitants...encouraging people to travel to other nearby places when they want to go to a gig/concert or have a really decent meal.  No way of telling, really.

Zurich are moving out of the UK Life Centre next year (the building on Station Road). They will still have offices in the Tricentres though.

Some of the blame is with the residents of Swindon. Back when Westfield were planning a major redevelopment of the Brunel Centre (which would have been amazing, but was never going to happen) some of the shop owners in Havelock Street got together to block it. Apparently they thought their shops were of more value than a regional shopping centre which would have included a proper John Lewis department store.

Think the biggest issue was none of the plans being pushed forward quickly enough and then the financial crash put and end to most of the plans. Still don't think the town centre is as bad as some make out, especially if you include the outlet shops.

Doesn't help that we're in the middle of Oxford, Reading, Bristol and Bath. If anyone wants decent shops, especially the smaller independents, you've got lots of choice all within a 30 minute or so car journey.

This thread isn't really convincing me to buy a property in Swindon if I'm honest

I like going to Swindon for shopping, then again I live in Calne. Swindon caters for pretty much all your needs, not all shops are in the town centre but they are in other retail parks. The only negative is that the town centre is not exactly pretty.

We don't really want your sort here anyway

You stick to your Croydon ghetto

 :D

Hiiiiiiiiiiii andy :D

I had a slow trawl through the plans for Swindons' growth up until 2026 which without a doubt made for heavy reading at times. Lots of various plans that cover every imaginable scenario apart from people using jet packs to get into town and Londons' fourth runway being put at Wroughton as far as it appears. None of it is really new, just a rehash of every plan that has ever been forwarded for the regeneration/expansion of the town over the last twenty-five years . Some of it is already happening regarding the centre of town and I guess some of it will happen later as housing will be needed when the economy picks up along with the need for new companies to hopefully come in that will employ the people that live in the area.

STFC are mention as being a great asset to Swindon and redevelopment of the County Ground also mentioned but no details.

Job done, then

It shouldn't put you off as long as you're not looking in SN1. Plenty of really good suburbs in Swindon. The outer shell of the town is brilliant and in most cases low on crime and hassle free. Good places to live. It's the town centre which puts the town down.

If we are going all serious then I agree with the above.

As past me stated over three years ago (wow, really? What the fuck am I still doing here)

He's not moving by choice. he's blacklisted in croydon!

The 1970s cancer is hard to remove....look at calne....fuck me....that phelps parade is a shithouse....let's all sit in costa and watch Jeremy Kyle auditionees smerking fags outside Iceland....urgh...

Agreed Flash, but believe me it used to be a lot worse. I quite like a gritty feel about a town or city, Calne used to have the smell of an abatoir years ago along with a lot of derelict buildings. I think experiencing the depressed state of some places makes you appreciate other things.

Oooh, 5 years on they are gradually implementing my blueprint for the tope end of Town.  We'll get there eventually!  Just got the cinema in the wrong location by a few hundred yards.

Sounds a bit fishy.

Sounds more Tope Obadeyi to me...I liked it when we beat Soton early season 09, that night him and Wee Macca tore them a new one. A result as enjoyable as winning at Reading the last time we played at the Madejski....reason the presence of that loathsome old cunt Pardew in the opposition dug out.

Don't want to start a new thread for this, so this one will do.  We're visiting friends in Swindon this weekend and I want to get a new pair of 501s.  Where would be best for this...in town or the Outlet Village?  Thanks.

Outlet village would be your best bet

Thanks.

Yep, in the levis shop.

Back on the subject of the Town Centre....I previously wrote this....


This article....broadly agrees, that the high street is increasingly redundant...therefore would it not make more sense for SBC, to reverse history and bulldoze the Town centre and replace it with affordable housing, as it was originally?

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/jan/16/sickly-shops-high-street-solve-housing-crisis

You might struggle to get 501's in there, lot's of other numbers though, it is a little bit pot luck in there.  As a backup go to Debenhams, though you will pay £70 a pair.

Eurocarparts, Halfords, even Asda do them.

Why don't you pop to primark and get a pair of skinny jeans for around a tenner?

Levis store in the outlet defo have 501's

I got a couple of pairs of 501s there, worn away in the undercarriage after about six months though. Very annoying considering you pay for them to last.

Isnt most of the merchandise sold in outlets,seconds/sub standard?
Vintage denim stall at Wellesbourne meerkat sell some right trendy clobber.

This is what I meant by they might not have 501's.  They sell what they get sent rather than order in what is selling.  You take pot luck with the stock they have in.

A lot of the stuff sold is manufactured specifically for Outlets so when you buy a pair of Hilfiger jeans, you are getting a pair of Hilfiger jeans but a lower quality to that which you'd pay top price for at a normal shop.

If you want decent jeans then it's Diesel you're after.

Actually, saying that, I have got a pair of fake D&G jeans that I bought in Bali for £5 that have lasted years (yours for £2.50)

I've still got the very first pair of levis I bought from the outlet in Swindon. 7 years of hard wear and nothing untoward. I've bought others since and similarly had no problem.

Labels  ::)

I've still got a couple of pairs of Hilfiger jeans kicking about from when I used to work there (about 12 years ago).

I still wear my spliffy jeans.

Nearly a decade after I started this thread, nothing has changed.

Adver: Council Pulls the Plug on Multi-Million Town Centre Development Deal (http://www.swindonadvertiser.co.uk/news/15522514.Council_pulls_the_plug_on_multi_million_pound_town_centre_development_deal/)

I doubt that it ever will.  Something is, clearly, systemically wrong in Swindon.

Come on... Garry Perkins got a new car park. It's ideal for junkies and rough sleepers.

we also got an incomprehensibly stupid road system there too.

One word to describe Town Centre - CRAP!!

It's run by idiots - both on the political side (councillors) and the executive side (council upper management). We have precisely the town, and the town centre, that we deserve given the calibre of dickhead we continue to put in charge. Simple.

True... also Swindon voted for Brexit. A recent think tank report said that Swindon will be one of the urban areas in the UK, hardest hit by Brexit in terms of lost investment.  Swindon is largely a low wage or no wage economy, highly dependent on unskilled migration from the EU.. fund managers are not going to front up mega bucks in the present climate.

This. And the reason me & the Mrs spent diddly squat in the Mall in Florida a few weeks ago. Sadly my son decided that he needed three pairs of trainers. Still fair play to him it was his saved up money.

There are a lot of idiots, trouble is it is probably the same on both sides of the political divide, if this was a private company running this project from start to finish instead of the council (at arms length) then I'm sure something would have happened.

I'd like to see if labour can do any worse though, conservative have had the power for years and systematically screwed everything up they seem to be involved in, I cant recall 1 project being done well, even down to road resurfacing.

Agree entirely with your thoughts, sadly many years ago when there was a labour administration they didn't make a very good job of it either, seem to remember the council leader was a lady called Sue who upset an awful lot of people!!  Regardless of political persuasion the council is run by a bunch of amateurs - that is fact not fiction - anybody can put themselves forward to their political party for nomination!!

Absolutely, that's why I didn't do a Reg-like "Tory council" rant
Erm, that's exactly the set-up they have employed - an arms-length regeneration company. They've done fuck all. They've spent a shit load of cash on fuck all though. Half of what is wrong with public sector projects over the past two decades (i.e. under govts of both persuasions) is the idea that private sector is magically better. It's not - a badly led project implemented by private providers will fuck up every bit as badly (and often a lot more expensively) than one implemented by the public sector. As exhibits A, B and C, I give you G4S, Atos, and Rikki Hunt's Magic Broadband Scheme

The question I keep coming back to is 'What is it about Swindon that makes development uniquely impossible there?'  When the thread started in 2008, Bristol & Reading were listed as examples of local cities in which large projects had been delivered.  They're both sizable places - but in the interim, smaller towns/cities (than Swindon) have also transformed themselves - Basingstoke and, now, Bracknell being the best examples.

There are crap local councillors everywhere.  Why is it Swindon - and only Swindon - that fails so completely to get anything done?

First paragraph in this thread, written 9 yrs ago:


...and everything is still the same.  Except the '10 years ago' has now become '20 years ago'.  Astonishing.

 Simple answer, is that it is the result of Swindon's unique history...and its relationship of the political landscape since the 50's.

 I could go on and expand, but can't be arsed.

I have done some work with Muse up this way they are a good developer...

Me too

There are very few less appealing Town Centre's than Swindon both in terms of the area itself and the general atmosphere of the area. When I head towards Subway and Roosters at lunch time I regularly see pissed up drunks arguing and fighting, I wouldn't ever head in to the Town Centre other than to buy lunch. I guess the 2 go hand in hand with a run down area allowing people to loiter with antisocial behaviour as it's seen as a dump so just accepted.

Never met the bloke but that there Gary Perkins comes across as a frecin twat imo.

Up until the Thatcher government SBC had a massive amount of autonomy, traditionally Labour run, it had planned and overseen the development of the town.

OK not a socialist utopia, but it had achieved a decent number of outcomes.

In 85, Thatcher took the axe to socialist councils, who wanted to raise funds locally and use them for the benefit of the local people. SBC (then TBC) backed by local activists, joined what became known as the Rate Capping Rebellion. Ultimately Councillors threatened with being surcharged by the courts, caved in and local democratic powers were sucked up to Whitehall.

This explains why just about every civic project in Swindon, like Oasis, Brunel, Link,  CG Athletics track, Golf Course occur pre 85, and nothing much has happened since.

The new art gallery would be a good idea.. and at something like 25 mill, good value for money... about the cost of half a Kyle Walker.

I don't think that's exclusive to Swindon or specifically Swindon town centre.

Yep, and one of the areas they demolished years ago to make way for this new development is home to the traveling folk a couple of times a year - guess they are grateful for a bit of free hard standing to do what they wish, and the taxpayers pay to clean up behind them!

Thanks Reg.

It's not an impression that improves up close.

Reg missed blaming the tories for the Stratton bank not having a roof.

You'll have to excuse my ignorance here but what works are being carried out in the Town Centre?
Specifically the roads by the train station & where Debenhams used to be?
Not from Swindon but when I ventured into the TC before the Doncaster game I obviously couldn't help noticing how quiet it was as a result of all the renovation work.
I've read on here about the new bus station but it can't just be that.

The bus boulevard  :Ride On Fatbury's Lovestick:

All the office space in the area looked out of use (admittedly it was the weekend) so I thought there may be some demolition planned.
Is the bus boulevard going to be across a larger area than the current station then?

https://www.swindon.gov.uk/info/20136/transport_strategy/1089/fleming_way_improvements

They’re going knock down all the shops and make half of Swindon town centre a bus station and the other half a pay and display car park… or at least that seems to be the sole town centre regeneration objective of the council

converting shops to flats too.

Empty buses then.

Vodafone announced the closure of their Newbury HQ - given Zurich are consolidating into the single new building, I imagine now is not a good time to be in Commercial Real Estate with office blocks on your hands, or retail for that matter.  Most of them remain empty because they simply retain use to bolster Balance Sheets I guess.

Cheers mate.

I walked through the town centre at Christmas when i visited my dad, The town centre and most of the town has fallen to a state of dystopia, mis managed, lack of investment whatever. its pawn shops and bookies, boarded up windows. Walkabout used to be ok, but its called the liquor lounge?? (I imagine that is shut now)

It's quite bad, a shame 

Most town centres have been on decline for decades and are similarly stocked, although the bottom end of town has been in an appaling state for years.

Replacing the offices with residential means that footfall will increase making it more viable for shops, bars, restaurants etc to locate there.

Yeah I mentioned this the last home game I went to, we walked from the Glue Pot through the town and it was what I imagine a zombie apocolypse might be like. Seemingly the only services available in that part of town were for people that Vape, gamble or drink alcohol. The old Debenhams building looming over the area like a degenerate God.

It sounds like the regeneration is going to take quite a while, that bus bit is slated for completion autumn next year. It's not even remotely comparable for lots of reasons but when we lived in London the Battersea Power Station regeneration seemed to happen almost overnight, it's pretty sad that places outside of the capital seem to take so long to get anything done about them for one reason or another.

Think you may be looking a bit rose tinted.  They only finished the battersea project towards the back end of last year.      Phase 1 completed in 2017 and took 4 years.

Not defending our councils record though, it took them 2 years to remove a roundabout on mead way.

As is pretty much every town centre in England, not sure who you think should be managing it, but with the changes in the PD rules there is even less that Councils can do through the planning system. Ultimately its up to freeholders what they do with their properties and at the moment many seem to be struggling to come up with solutions and are just sitting on their hands hoping for th9ings to miraculously change for the better.

Main issue is people now buy stuff online so bricks and mortar retailing is dying on its arse, I know I bang on about this a lot but its no different to post offices/pubs etc people don't use them, then moan like fuck when they close.

With the changes in PD from office/retail to residential as noted above the big coming change is that town centres are going to become much more residential based, so going back to how they historically were, and whilst there will be a degree of revitalisation of trade/leisure etc to service that, town centres as we grew up with them have pretty much gone.

What the Councils can do is to embrace this and use the radical changes to make towns generally more accessible/attractive/safer for pedestrians/cyclists etc, we need to depend less on cars in this country, other countries have managed it so don't understand why its such a non starter over here.

I moved to Swindon in 2005, and the council published a 50 point plan for the town centre. I moved out of Swindon in 2010.

it's now 2023, how much of that 50 point plan has been done? have no idea but I'm sure it's a pretty low number.

I've never lived in Swindon, but a few years back we came down and stayed for a couple of nights to go to a show at the Wyvern, watch the Town play & go to the Ice Hockey.

My other half, who is originally from Poole, actually thought the |Town centre was ok, in fact she said much nicer than Poole is.

I do wonder if its just a case of people not being able to see beyond the warts of their own Town

We're a decent place to be in the case of a zombie apocalypse apparently...
https://www.swindonadvertiser.co.uk/news/23323522.swindon-ranked-among-best-places-survive-zombie-apocalypse/

That, or Poole is a massive shit hole from hell
--
Swindon's shop offering has declined massively in the last 2-3 years

To be fair, Swindon's problems are far from unique. But at the same time, if I had a choice I'd rather shop at the last place I lived near. Basingstoke.

That feels very telling of how bad Swindon Town centre is. I always found Basingstoke, whilst practical, very uninspiring and soulless; maybe that's the point you are making that you'd rather spend time there than in Swindon. The Anvil is an ok venue though but again, nothing from the outside of it to really wow anybody.

The joys of a nodnoL commuter town ey  ;)

Genuinly just prefer Basingstoke centre to our own - more modern precinct. They used to have a slightly worse shop selection, but they did have a cinema and restaurants which I used to live 10 minutes walk from.

I hoped regents circus would promote a similar vibe and resurgence, but it just died on its arse.

To be fair I've not been back to Basingstoke for 2 or 3 years, it could be barren now too.

Old Basingstoke was a soulless hellhole of shite when we first moved there. They knocked down a massive area of the centre and started again. Festival place was opened in 2002.

Regents circus has the potential to be a good social hub. A few of the restaurants have shut and I think it’s now just Nando’s, cinema and boom battle bar. Anyone know if there are plans for any new restaurants in there?

No. So many have been and gone I guess viability is a bit suspect

I thought that may be the case. It’s a shame as with all the units filled it looks like a buzzing, vibrant area. I suppose there are quite a few competing restaurants in the adjacent area.

People I know that used the restaurants complained that they were too expensive but anything nice is always going to be costly it just depends on what you want and can afford.

Anywhere in the € zone or the $ zone is expensive in relative terms. I’m currently in SA. Fuck me, cheap? You’ve no idea unles you’ve been here. Teneriffe in the winter? Benidorm? No way Hose. This is the place to get an air B&B for six months.

What are the going rates like for the staples like beer, food etc?

From memory they were all chains, or at least have online menus...I am always amazed people complain at prices

I think you're right they were all chains.

Really? 50% less on everything. The SA Rand is is currently Just shy of ZAR 22 v £1 a beer in a bar is £2.50
£3.50 which is an imported beer a local beer £2.00- £2.50. In supermarket much less, say £1.00 per pint. Food is in general 50% less than the U.K. A bottle of vino in a lower end restaurant could cost £7.50 a mid range restaurant a bottle of vino £8.50 all prices are plus or minus depending on a location. locally produced ‘Champagrne’ is approximately £15-20 in a restaurant.

@43% proof a bottle of Smirnoff 750ml is £7.50

Graham Beck is a very good SA fizz. We often pick up a bottle when it's on offer (between 10 and 15 notes)

the $ zone:

looking at Vegas for prices. fuck that's got expensive. $45-90 for the top buffets. Last time I went they were $20-30... oh yeah 10 years ago.

then there the mandatory tip culture at most places. Pay your staff a proper wage assholes.  I'm British.  it takes a while to get used to 15-20% tip ffs

Our friends emigrated 15 years ago. I’m not in their financial league but in all fairness to them you wouldn’t know that if you knew them. Which is why we have this year after some cajoling booked flights and joined them for some late winter sunshine. If you’re into stunning scenery, Cape Town offers that in spades.

My parents love SA and have been for 2-3 weeks on 2 or 3 occasions. It’s definitely on the list for when I have the time and money to visit.

I was reading this one with interest and wondering what the fuck it had to do with the Town Centre?  That thread derailment happened quickly!

Not only do they earn their money via Tips, they have to ensure they declare it all correctly when filing their taxes every year.  You do quickly get used to it once you live here though, especially as most food options are not a huge price leap on buying from the supermarket.

The City I live in,, bringing this back to topic via restaurants, puts on lots of events in the Downtown area and brings all the local businesses out onto the central square area and nearly always involves the restaurants providing festival style food offerings or being part of some sort of trail - because people eat!  Something Old Town is much better at it seems.  

The Town Centre in Swindon clearly has an issue with the zoning that has occurred in past years now being outdated vs. retail habits.  The real trick is not going to be converting the perimeter offices, but more convincing the Pension firms that own most of the Retail core that they need to revert to Residential in many cases.  It's still going to be a cultural ring doughnut unless they get people living right in amongst it all.

If restaurants have shut  previously it possibly suggests that there is just not the market for so many outlets within the town, if they are chains rather than bespoke ones the sentiments are not there and its purely a bottom line decision, whereas some privately owned ones will muddle on making jack shit. What with the cost of living issues + energy costs the hospitality market is taking an absolute shoeing at the moment, especially so soon after the Covid kicking.

If people want businesses to survive they will have to pay the increased costs, as everything is going up the businesses have to pass it on to the consumers, we don't eat out that much at the moment, but I notice that Fish and Chips in the chippy in the village has gone through the roof and on discussing with the guy in there its a combination of the raw materials going up + the cost of cooking it. 

One of the issues with Regents Circus is the deals they did at the start with long rent free periods and/or short breaks.   Essentially Morissons was the footfall but broke at the first opportunity when rent incentive ended, at least that is what I heard.
Once it pulled out the other chains quickly followed.  More resi in town is the only real long term solution to footfall.

Morrisons are still paying a million a year lease for that unit which runs for at least another decade…no wonder it remains empty and no one else has taken it on. A shame because that is essentially the ‘focal point’ of the development and drove much of the footfall.

How much were they losing when it was open!

Something that could do there that would have the restaurants around it busy, is a music venue. The Oasis was always a bit shit as just a sports hall but at least we had something that could hold 2,500 to 3,000 people. Now we have nothing.

Look at the footprint of that Morrisons. 49,739 sq ft! That is not insignificant at all. You'd have to estimate you could turn that in to a good 4 to 5k venue.

£24m or whatever they were asking though, just silly......just never going to happen, is it?

You have The MECA 100 yards away, so doubt they would put another music venue in such close proximity.

May have undercooked that actually. For comparison 'Marshall Arena' which is on the side of MK Dongs ground, is 36,800 sq ft and holds 5k, so may even get 6k in there.

Looking at it, it isn't that much smaller than Cardiff International Arena.

Its not just music either. Swindon has a fair boxing tradition for a town of our size, but we only ever get white collar boxing of very low down pro-cards. A venue that size would have even the Eddie Hearns and Frank Warrens of the world considering putting shows in there.

Way too small to attract anyone of note. 600 capacity vs somewhere between 3k and 7k. They'd be in a totally different market.

Its not uncommon to have two rooms even in the same venue with different capacities for different markets. A lot of the o2 academies have two rooms for different capacities, even the o2 arena has the Indigo inside the same venue.

I assume its a Morrisons 'Local' and if less to do with losses of the stores and more so it was a national fuck up on Morrisons part, they were late to the trend (Tesco Express, Sainsburys Local etc) took long leases in high value locations all over the country and after a couple of years strategically decided that they didn't want to be in the sector of the convenience market and shut them all, similarly they are still paying a fortune for probably the prime unit in the centre of Lancaster.

It was a full sized one.  I think the issue was the fact you had to pay for parking then get it refunded if you shopped in there and the access to the car park wasn't exactly inviting (isn't, it is still there of course).

Yep literally ever other supermarket in Swindon has a free car park. Mind you, there aren't any major supermarkets left in the town centre now.

The parking thing is an issue in general with Town Centre. Say I need to get something from Boots, why go pay for parking with a walk in Town Centre and dodge my way around two crackheads, when I can just go to Greenbridge and park right outside?

Retail parks have made a lot of Town Centre shops obsolete in many towns.  

I assume out of town shopping was/is a strategic decision by the council, who therefore have to shoulder the blame for the state of the town centre. Same shitty administration getting in despite managing an impressive levelling down agenda.

Still ongoing in some places too - google "15 minute city" (Oxford, Bristol, Canterbury and Sheffield  are trying to head that way)

MECA has up to an 1800 capacity standing, that's including 300 in the balcony area.
That's big enough to attract some "name" bands, but it seems like only an occasional music venue.
Was hoping for a lot more by way of live music when it first opened but not to be.

Then again the Sausage and Cider Festival next month looks interesting and could yet prove to be a better option than Carlisle at the CG.

Not sure whether it was any sort of strategic decision, just a muddle that planning (which failed to consider the long term) got into in the late 70's and 80's with Swindon being one of the first places to really embrace it, I suspect as much as anything as it coincided with the town growing at a frantic rate, possibly without the benefit of a strategic master plan.

As for shouldering the blame, it can't all be laid at the door of the Council, they might have allowed out of town shopping, but its not compulsory for people to actually use it at the obvious detriment to the town centre. See also, and I'll say it again, pubs and rural post offices.


They really aren't what their detractors are desperately trying to portray them to be,  they have just been grasped as another battle front on the incessant and tedious culture war that some politicians and commentators are peculiarly so keen to perpetuate.

https://www.newstatesman.com/quickfire/2023/02/fifteen-minute-cities-will-be-back-conspiracy-theories-house-commons

I was looking at the wrong capacity then. Would still have much better potential. But yeah, Meca is a complete let down and should get a lot more if they can get 1,800 in there.

On the other hand Marlborough have somehow managed to get one of my favourite bands DMA's to play their town hall in May, in amongst their tour including Wembley Arena.

Beggars belief.