Thetownend.com

http://www.thisisstfc.co.uk/news_headlines_Story.asp?NewsID=5541

BWB's won't be happy

:mrgreen:

 :thumbs:

http://www.thedugout.tv/community/images/smilies_final/hail.gif CCP

:soapy tit wank:

“The damage was already done here when Andy King was in charge. Iffy has done nothing wrong, he had so much to do because Andy King had already cocked it up.


AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH :mrgreen:  :Ride On Fatbury's Lovestick:

CCP is a legend!

It's been said by many behind closed doors so to speak, but this is the first real public comdenation.  And from a player who King brought in just a few months before he was sacked, so he's hardly had years to build up some angst with the guy.

Evans hinted at a shitly prepared pre season last week as well.

Quality. very good of him to come out and be honest.

Did you see him at the gay bar, gar bar, gay bar?

I used to like Charlie hes clearly a cunt now though.

Whys that then?.

Cos he speaks the truth.

Sniff Sniff

It was the boards fault they tied Kings hands.

King didnt arrange a concert at the County ground leaving us with an ineffective pre season neither did he slash his own wage budget.

But what ever im cant be arsed getting into all this about our  previous manager but 1.

“The damage was already done here when Andy King was in charge. Iffy has done nothing wrong, he had so much to do because Andy King had already cocked it up.

No manager would have kept us up period because of Andy Kings mistakes.

I expect Charlie has some sympathy for Iffy because he played him regularly. Of course he's talking crap, King would've kept us up, Iffy took us down. I don't think anyone can seriously claim that Iffy was an improvement over King - history proves the opposite.

I'm sure CCP knows fucking better than you do Ben, shut up.

Incidentally I think CCP is a silly boy to say these things, practically burning his bridges before Wise is even here.

He's just sticking up for a mate Dave.

King brought him to the club you clown. He probably feels a bit of gratitude about that. King had clearly lost the dressing room, this confirms it.

CCP plays for Swindon and presumably spoke to AK on a daily basis, unless you did, hush hush.

All it shows is that Comyn-Platt liked Iffy and think's he's been treated harshly. King is merely a convenient scapegoat.

Ben.

What does he gain by saying that exactly?

Like I said Dave he's sticking up for a manager he liked and who he thinks has been treated harshly.

i've got this horrible feeling of deja vu

No, don't dodge it.

What does he have to gain by slaggin off AK if he's lying?

Ffs dave if he's not going to blame iffy he has to blame someone, I can't really be arsed to get into a lengthy argument about this. Comyn-Platt can say what he likes, end of the day Iffy only lasted a few months for a reason.

Why can't he blame Iffy? Iffy's been chopped if you hadn't noticed.

Clearly they got on well, Iffy did seem popular with the players and I'm sure he was more popular with some of them than King and not with others but results are what matters. I'm not trying to claim that King was more popular with every player than Iffy but management isn't a popularity contest.

bwb being purposefully inflamatory?

Being inflamatory is not the same thing as just having a different opinion to most people. I'm not being inflamatory, Wise is our manager now and I'm happy to move on with him at the helm but if you want to discuss the past then I'll give my opinion.

BWB  clearly has the more coherent points in this debate....if you deconstruct CCP's words they do not confirm the prejudices of the KOB,  they are just misinterpreting them.

Fucking matrix glitch again

CCp should keep is opinions to himself. First thing Wise is going to think is 'Gobby shite'

The last players I remember gobbing off about managment soon departed from Newcastle and Birmingham and are now both playing reugular football for an up and coming manager and will play in Europe next year.

Hang on, I think I lost that somewhere. Still point well made. Players shouldn't make their feelings known.

So which part of 'King cocked up' are the KOB 'misinterpreting then Reg?

he is saying what 90% of us already know

CCP has clearly stated that he wants to play under the new management and has praised Wise and Poyet. It was pretty damn obvious that the train had come off the rails under King so stating that he cocked it up is no revelation. I think for these reasons Wise and Poyet will keep him on providing they like what they see on the pitch. That said they might be afraid if it goes even more tits up that CCP will blab.

 The bit where the club is about to go to the wall through  an unprecedented two periods of administration, against a back drop of transfer embagoes and unpaid wages...we managen to finish mid table or better , having retrieved the mess created by name manger T*dd.

 Throw in an at least 500K profit on transfer dealing, when the club is faced with a mil bill to continue..then any sane person, like BWB will judge King a success.

 FACT.

 Further it was pointed out by BWB and a couple of others that sacking King would lead to an inexperienced replacement and a likelihood of relegation.

 CCP, for all his youthful endeavour hasn't got the first clue about, the last 4 or so years of STFC history....nor should he...he's a player.

Fair enough. I don't think I'm going to say any more about Andy King. I know what I think of him, other people have their opinion and I don't suppose any of us will change our minds. We might as well have a debate about the merits or otherwise of John Gorman or Jimmy Quinn. They are about as relevant now as Andy King.

Only a complete moron would be unable to see that in the latter stages of King's tenure that he'd obviously lost the confidence of the players and fans alike.
Yes he might have worked miracles on a tight buget previously, but when the end came we were on a downward spiral to oblivion and before anyone says any different, why was Iffy able to turn a crap side heading for relegation into one that nearly escaped ???

I blame Ralphy personally.

He wasn't, in reality he just made sure a side that could have stayed up didn't. We finished 5 points adrift, it wasn't that close.

 Better budget maybe? Players were brought in.

I'm no king fan, ut I think rarely is everything so black and white. All academic now. Onward and upards hopefully

Any one who thought King a success cannot be sane :wink:

:shock:  The real CCP ?

So why was it miraculously suddenly available to Iffy....I don't remember any rich benefactor suddenly pumping money in when Iffy was appointed ?????


My point was which you chose to ignore (as always where King is concerned 'Yawn') that we would have been relegated by Christmas - at least we still had a fighting chance with 2/3 games left....

Reg, everything you say is correct and valid...but...

CCP can be right in saying King cocked-up, even if he knows jack about the club over the past 4 years or so.  King can both have been a success at one point but then also have cocked it up in the last 2-3 months of his tenure (and that is all CCP would have seen),  It is perfectly feasible to be cock-up something after being good at if for a while - success isn't constant and nor is performance.  Other players have already hinted at shambolic pre season arrangements etc.

CCP has no reason to dislike King, he was convinced by the man to come here and spent less than a few months working under him.  I don't see why we have to judge the whole period as one thing or the other, why not judge his recent performance?

I've never been a person who liked King, right from the beginning, but I've always been able to accept results and the like as a measure of his success and then failure.

Same as Nicho then  :o  :wink:

I didn't choose to ignore it, you didn't make that point. It's nonsense anyway, we wouldn't have been down by Christmas had King stayed, all the evidence shows we wouldn't even have been relegated.

what evidence?

We'd been on longer losing runs than 5 games before under King and still finished in the top half, one season even making the playoffs after losing 5 in a row - there's nothing to suggest it couldn't have happened again. The 5 games we lost were all by one goal when King was suffering with Gout, I'm sure we would have turned it around.

I dont think we would have turned it around, because King has lost the dressing room. He hadnt during previous bad spells but he had this time.

Once a manager looses the dressing room, then in my opinion there is no way back.

King had lost the dressing room, the players body language said as much, plus a number of players have said they lost all faith in King....and now CCP has said it publically.

If he hadnt of lost the dressing room maybe he would have turned it around, but this time....no chance!

Other players have said differently though. After King was sacked O'Hanlon said "We were all behind him it’s just that we weren’t getting the results for him". Now he may have changed his tune once Iffy was manager but most players realise that it's best to publically support the current manager but he had no reason to say that if he didn't think it once King had left.

Whatever way you look at it King had to go - he'd lost respect from all quaters, publically slagging off the fans and players plus singling out individual players for criticism - hardly the makings of a manager about to turn the corner as far as results are concerned.

Of course thats what Sean O'Hanlon told the paper  :wink:

 This circular argument crops up from time to time...on the one hand you have the KOB who see King as the spawn of the Devil, and on the other the rationialsts who see King as a competent manager, who held the line for us at a time when it would have been all too easy, as the Scum have proved to head to the Conference.

 Unfortunately, its a circular argument, because the flat earthers (KOB), insist on backing their opinions with statements like the earth is flat because I heard a rumour to that effect from a 19 year old kid.

 Whereas the rationalists, point to the available evidence that the  Earth is indeed  round.

 The flat earthers, then retrench, waiting for the next opportunity to air their view, happily unaffected by any logic, and so it goes on and on and on and on and on.

so basically your saying your right again then??

No the rationalists have their heads stuck so far in the sand they can't see the blindingly obvious.....

  No BWB is right.

To end the argument here, Kingys best attribute was Sam Parkin. Take Parkin out of the team in all the time King was in charge and what would you have had. Mid-table? Relegation battlers?

Even with Sam we had some poor games, Notts county away in the LDV?

King is an excellent scout and probably an even better salesman if you look at some of the players who have been lured through the CG doors recently.

 I don't think he could have saved us from relegation with the current squad.

well he obviously isnt because im sure ccp and the others have more of a idea what king was like than any of us

Bit like saying vote Tory or the Commies will take over. and irrelevant because he would have been ditched on route unless you presume a direct relegation from Div1 to the Conference.
... just as the irrationalists (sic) like BWB state an opinion "King would have saved us from relegation" as fact and you accept that without evidence because it suits your argument. Where's the logic?

I didn't state it as fact, I just said the evidence suggests we would have stayed up.

well fuck having you represent me in court,because that evidence is bollocks mate

It's far more solid than any evidence to the contrary.

the most underlying fact in my eyes ben is that when things were good king was a good man to work for.when the chips were down he was a wanker.the way he treated some players this year was disgracefull no matter what you say he had lost the players its as simple as that..
1 example is ifill he showed how good he can be but king drained every last bit of confidence that kid had out of him..if he ever gets another job ben i suggest you go watch him in a training session,i seen him at about 20-30 sessions and believe me the players do not like him,,as for your argument that sean o,hanlon spoke out in favour for him who was it who made him captain against everyones advise..andy king

In the immortal words of The Average White Band.

  Let's go round again
Maybe we'll turn back the hands of time
Let's go round again
One more time
Let's go round again
Maybe we'll turn back the hands of time
Let's go round again
One more time, one more time, one more time
One more time

the usuall i see reg..i dont understand why some people will not accept that king done a good job then royally fucked up with his attitude

My sincere apologies to all for starting off this thread and reigniting the KOB Vs KIB's battle. Sorry :(

At the end of the day, despite all this 'evidence' going around, there is no way of knowing how we'd have done had King stayed, so there isn't much point in arguing about it really, I mean if my aunt had bollocks she'd be my uncle.

I like your point at the end there Edinburgh.  :D

its not true though is it.

Say your aunt was mental, ran after some guy cut his balls off and kept them in a jar. Then she would have bollocks....but she wouldnt be your uncle

 :x  :D

Agree with you, King's attitude finished him, but manyother managers are not likeable, unlike Iffy .  I was of the KIB, and King's previous record showed me that he was capable of keeping us up because he could reverse losing runs in to long winning runs as in the past. Iffy had no track record at all, nice bloke though he is, and I had little  faith in him, although I supported his efforts. King had to go eventually because of his attitude, but I always believe that a manager should be given a full season, and he should have been retained to try to keep us up. Then sack him at season's end if necessary. Iffy was inferior to King for tactics and selection in my view, as expected, though he did his best.
It is irrelevant now anyway except for historical purposes, and the new regime is exciting if unproven. Hope everything is swept clean as it were, but with STFC this never seems to happen!
The King is dead, long live the King! ( Not Andy!).