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well, i didnt think it was that one sided, i thought we deserved the draw, however a couple of points.

jerel played well and he was man marking bridge-wilkinson, now the problem with this is that he gets dragged out of position and when this happens we dont cover and we go dead crap.

gurney was bloody awful yesterday, im no anti-gurney but he was fuckin useless, off the pace and distribution awful.

shakes lost interest, after about 10 minutes he had to race head to head with their full back to cover defensively, the defender was quicker than him, and ricky is basically a one trick pony and that trick is his pace. he realised at that moment he couldnt beat their defender and was pretty invisible and ineffective for the rest of the game.

one last thing, rhys' goal kicks every time went to shakes, there must have been 25 kicks and shakes did not win one of them, why did he not try and kick it to someone else?

good away point and i feel we can beat the pikeys and the doleites this week and move us closer to safety.

i think we will win our next two games as well. both poor teams away from home and with our recent home record we start as favourites

how did Roberts play mex?

on the radio it sounded like everyone woke up when he came on

I thought it didn't sound that one sided, sounded like a very poor game which sprung to life when Bradfords fans decided to make some noise.

Draw sounded fair to me.

Well to be honest who cares about how good the game is? The fact is we got a good away point and as long as we remain solid we can keep progressing

Yes lets all slate our two best players- Ifil and Shakes- for a not quite so good 70 minutes.

Reality check needed.

Ifil was and will remain a total liability. Just as likely to make a huge mistake as to make a saving tackle.

Shakes was embarrassingly poor yesterday. He has very limited footballing sense. Mexico was right. Take away his pace and he has ... nothing.

We are in deep trouble if those two are our best players.

On current form, I should add.

I don't bother reading your comments on Ifil because they're always- and have always- been total vitriol. As for Shakes, he's young, learning and is getting regualr first team football for the first time in his career.

If you want instant perfection then fuck off and watch Chelsea's wingers.

Dave never assume its vitriol because people see different things to you.  

You weren't there yesterday and so cannot comment about how crap Shakes was.  Everything seemed to go down the right  and NOTHING came of it.

Oh - and your hyphens are in the wrong place.  English students - I've sh?t 'em.

I've never made myself out to be a- Language- student  :wink:

Perhaps lumping everything out to the right wing is making Shakes' task impossible?

I wasnt there yesterday but Ifil has been solid under Iffy and has been out best player in recent weeks.

Maybe so, but the reality is that the effective use of whatever gets there was missing yesterday and Shakes was an embarassment.

Implying that we expect instant success isn't a fair comment.  We hope that someone who is holding down a professional players contract can at least trap/control/distribute sometimes and that was sorely missing yesterday.

Granted, but I'm satisfied that Shakes is doing enough to warrant a contract extension... he's improving, the general consensus from the training staff is that he's learning quickly, by all accounts he's the last one off the training field every day and he seems football mad. He's got a goal to work towards (a potential WC place) and people doing their level best to bring him down winds me up, he tries his nuts off and deserves our support.

You backed Nicholas last season when he frankly couldn't be arsed...

I think that last comment is vapour - a) because I didn't and wouldn't and b) because he didn't play because for some reason that only King (and Banbury Red and his inner-sanctum cronies) know.

Did you bang your head in your accident, because you are definitely slipping!

Rio Ifil under Iffy has been fantastic.  People whinge about his distribution but to be honest if he does the ugly stuff right then I'm not bothered - the tactics should dictate he passes it short to someone with better distribution e.g.: Gurney.  He's quick, an excellent man-marker and has a superb tackle on him (ooh err).  He's also a confidence player, sometimes misplaces passes and gets caught out of position, but at this level he's certainly a top top defender and I would say under Iffy he has been the best player.

Shakes on the other hand I'm less impressed with.  Vs. Doncaster was the first time I've seen him have a good game, and even then he was coming off the wing and shooting woefully when he should have squared it or at least had a better attempt than the one he managed.  The problem is he's the only true right winger at the club, and his pace is an asset, even if it is his only one as some suggest.

The same used to be said about my comments on Brian Howard. I was right then too. :wink:

Ifil has got better, forming a good partnership with O'Hanlon.

whhhhhhooooooooooo easy tiger, dave calm down mate, i wasnt being vitriolic at all and i like shakes, however yesterday he was up against a defender who had more pace than him and he just gave up, i was only pointing this out, as im sure iffy will too, its no good if one of your players gives up after 10 minutes is it?

and in regards to the goalkicking i was only asking why did evans keep kicking it to shakes when he was getting beaten in the air time and time again? it makes no logical sense to me, surely you would think "maybe i should try kicking it elsewhere?"

and i wasnt criticsing ifil, i was saying when he man marks, a job he does well, he gets dragged out of position and the others in the team dont cover for him well enough. dave you should really read the posts before spouting shit, it makes you sound as if you are some retard from the back of beyond 8)

as for roberts he did ok, he went out on shakes right wing and had a go at the defender and caused some chances, he looks like he needs to lose a few pounds but dont we all!?

Mex - it's Santini he was accusing of pouring vitriol and me too I suppose but don't worry about DMR - he has these moments.

Post traumatic stress is what I would put it down too if I were being charitable.

I find it hard to understand how a discussion about the good and bad points of an away draw against a team much higher than us in the league has turned into personal abuse  :-))(

Can't we just be happy with the fact that we are on a decent run and pushing up towards (and hopefully beyond) the dreadful black line

Angst ridden teenager!

Swapping insults doesn't mean we care what the others say, so don't  lose any sleep.

A goal at the end showed we never gave after Windass scored for the Bantams, shows we have spirt, confidence and a beleif to go into any match and win it.

We drew :wink:

Jim, your point is well made but grossly unfair on the the two ladsl. Dave is right about Shakes, i.e. first time in his career he's had proper first team football etc. Based on that he is bound to have the odd dodgy patch. What he has shown me however is improvement with games played, i.e. pace in the right places, improved crossing, good movement  Were you as critical last weekend when he looked like an absolute world beater?

Likewise with Ifil. We all know he can drop a clanger or two but to go right off the deep end is more than a little harsh. As part of a defensive unit including Jack Smith, Seano and Nicho, Jerel has played a key part in our revival under Iffy.

You are more than entitled to your views but take a look at the bigger picture. As Dave mentioned, albeit it a little too bluntly(?) if you want the polished item, go to the Premiership. We are at this level for a reason, i.e. we can't afford to spend our way out of trouble. However, Iffy is doing an amazing job coaching a batch of raw talents into a solid unit that are all fighting for each other. Based on the improvement I've seen under his reign, I don't envisage us being down here too long - likewise I don't envisage Shakes or Ifil remaining as raw as they are for long either.

What Mr H said.

I would also like to say, Vitriol - great word.

I'm going to try to use it much more in every day life 8)

That's beyond the point. He was just saying that the belief is there

 Oil of vitriol is an old name for sulphuric acid.....spelt with an f by Americans which is just wrong.

Ephing Americans ... tell em to phuck off :wink:

Why unfair?

I was there, saw what transpired and observed accordingly.  Shakes was very poor and lacked basic skills that it isn't unreasonable to expect him to be able to exercise.  The problem was exacerbated because all the balls were delivered down that side and so, the pressure was on and Shakes didn't deliver at all.

I have cheered him just like the rest and I can see improvements but, as Mex said, once his party trick of pace was exposed by an aggressive and fast left back, he had nothing else to offer and seemed to lose heart.

Now, Ifil.  He has been around far longer and still, too often, shows a complete lack of awareness.  Yes he makes saving tackles but have a think about how often that is a result of his mind  wandering and him losing his man.  Watch Sean - see how often he is cajoling Jerel into line.

Now, having said all that, the defence, so often the butt of all the negative comments on here, is looking more solid than it has and that's a good base on which to build.

I would just like to say, that everybody is entitled to their opinion, as I have been told plenty of times on this site,  :D

But I think we can all agree things are looking up, and going well, we cant expect every player to have an outstanding match every week.
As long as they try.

Fair play to mr roberts for working hard to get back into the squad and I hope he can once again play like he did when he first joined us.

Apologies then Jim. I got the impression you were writing him off completely as shite - which would be completely unfair - not just that last performance.

Brilliant! Do you write stand-up?

hahahaha hanrahan and ost backed me up

i found that amusing as i usually get slated  8)

Clutching at straws there DMR, but since you resurrected this ...


 ... I do bother reading your comments on Ifil and Shakes, even when you weren't at the match, despite them being blindly optimistic and reflecting little on their usual performances.

I know what I'm looking for in good defending and I know what I see too often with Ifil. That is the reality my comments reflect. You disagree.

As for Shakes, he is getting too much expectation from fans and, more worryingly, from Iffy such that he is often our only outlet and on recent form completely wastes 95% of all the possession he gets ie our possession as a team. Did you see the reaction of others in the side when nothing came of it again and again and again - a worrying sign.