Thetownend.com

Go to Sheryl wont it?

Did a cracking job for those he represented.

Go to Sheryl wont it?

Sad when anyone dies. Can't stand his unions viewpoints though.

Good riddance

why?

I don't really have an opinion regarding this at the moment, I will wait until someone with a left leaning chip on their shoulder tells me what to think via social media, supported by a link to a Guardian story confirming that if I don't agree I must be the right wing devil.

I consider myself left leaning, but the left (or at least those I engage with) seem to be becoming ever more tedious in their approach at the moment!

I will miss Bob Crow if only for his comedy interviews with Peter Allen on Fivelive...

He was a fucking cock, strike this strike that, surprised noone striked him in the face

And Boris fake grief is a piss take, he hated him

The irony of some of you having a pop at Union leaders, without them standing up for your ancestors you'd still be chewing straw in a barn eating raw potatoes and being buggered by the local squire. Ignorant Peasants.

The irony of some of you having a pop at Union leaders, without them standing up for your ancestors you'd still be chewing straw in a barn eating raw potatoes and being buggered by the local squire. Ignorant Peasants.

Erm, you mean we're NOT supposed to still be doing that? Damn.

What sort of bollocks is that ? How can 30% voting to strike be any kind of representative majority ?

Says the leftie......

In my opinion we need to kill off the unions - the faster the better.....

Fuck the unions and their bollocks (I know, well reasoned) -- for the last tube strike only 40% of members bothered to even return their ballot papers - 40% !!!

As an overall organisation 30% of members voted to strike - 70% did not

Apparently according to the unions this is some sort of majority and therefore the strike became legal !

What sort of bollocks is that ? How can 30% voting to strike be any kind of representative majority ?

In most unions, there'll be people who happily take the benefits, but won't back what is happening. I've seen a few down the years...cunts.

Says the leftie......

In my opinion we need to kill off the unions - the faster the better.....

Fuck the unions and their bollocks (I know, well reasoned) -- for the last tube strike only 40% of members bothered to even return their ballot papers - 40% !!!

As an overall organisation 30% of members voted to strike - 70% did not

Apparently according to the unions this is some sort of majority and therefore the strike became legal !

What sort of bollocks is that ? How can 30% voting to strike be any kind of representative majority ?

Yeah zero hours contracts for all. Zero pay rises for people in The public sector, and million pound bonuses for bankers paid for by the public sector. Who needs unions they are so out of date and pointless. ::)

Yeah zero hours contracts for all. Zero pay rises for people in The public sector, and million pound bonuses for bankers paid for by the public sector. Who needs unions they are so out of date and pointless. ::)

And yeah the bankers -- it was ALL their fault that we took more credit than we could afford - fuck me personal responsibility went right out of the window in the Blair/Brown Bust years didn't it......

Well, to some extent, yes, yes it was. I'm no expert, but it seems to me that lending money to people who can't afford to ever pay it back is not a great way to do business. Especially when the money involved is, at the end of the day, someone else's.

Spending more than the GDP of a small country on bonuses wouldn't exactly help either.

Fucking hell really ?

You mean that public sector who have been propped up by the private sector for donkey's years ?

That public sector with unrealistic pensions paid out of the private sector ?

Zero pay rises - ahhhhh poor public sector workers ! They should try living in the real world like the rest of us - I would LOVE a pay rise but unfortunately I also understand that when things are bad in the economy I have to suck it up and wait until things improve

Fucking hell really ?

You mean that public sector who have been propped up by the private sector for donkey's years ?

That public sector with unrealistic pensions paid out of the private sector ?

Zero pay rises - ahhhhh poor public sector workers ! They should try living in the real world like the rest of us - I would LOVE a pay rise but unfortunately I also understand that when things are bad in the economy I have to suck it up and wait until things improve

And yeah the bankers -- it was ALL their fault that we took more credit than we could afford - fuck me personal responsibility went right out of the window in the Blair/Brown Bust years didn't it......

Glad you're so very sympathetic !  ::)

I work in the public sector and last year had my first rise 1% for 3 years (before that 5 years of low rises all below inflation rate), arguably not  a rise in real terms, looks like 1% this year (whoopee) and bonus related earnings irrespective of how well personally I have performed do not exist in my area.
I knew this when I started working in the public sector and have not winged or ever gone on strike as a result but I would like to think I 'live in the real world' along with you. I know I also have to 'suck it up' as have some friends that are now out of work due to cuts. Not all people that are members of a union are Bob Crow clones.

Chalkie I get that, but how much of that advice is ultimately for their own devices ?

I've got one of those supposedly magic pensions. I started paying my pension 26 years ago at 11% of my salary. It slowly went up to 13.75%. I am about to start paying 14% of my salary for the privilege. Thats 14% of my hard earned before I even get a sniff of it. Then the Gubbinsment take a not insignificant slice. The rises in my pension contributions have outpaced my pay increase so I am actually worse off than before the crash. Just like everyone else but the Bankers and the Grand High Fucky Mucks so, fuck off with all your bitter bollocks about public sector pensions. The teachers final salaray pension- what final salary is that based on then? Head Teachers and the like may have a good final salary but, your average teachers isn't paid a shitload.

Your average public sector worker spends their life being paid not a fantastic wage but contributing a good proportion of their income for a pension so that they can be comfortable in retirement. What the fuck is wrong with that?

Nothing wrong with it at all Fuzzy, and fair play to you and anyone else who has that luxury.  I'm not bitter at all about it - traditionally public sector workers choose to be paid a little less than private sector in real cash, which is made up by decent pensions/benefits etc.....

I have no problem with any of that

I have a problem when the whinging starts and the strikes happen and fuck everyone else around when it is completely unnecessary and in my opinion greedy.  Teachers are paid better in the uk than most other European countries, and also have better pensions than most, not to mention fucking long holidays etc..... Again I have no problem with that and would happily pay a little more income tax in order to pay for the best teachers we can get, thereby giving our next generation a better chance in life - what I don't like is as I said before, the unnecessary strikes and hypocrites

The strikes aren't always about pay and conditions though are they? Teachers sometimes strike as the only way to protest about the next big fuckwit generated edict from Gubbinsment. All those smart ideas about making your foetus sit an exam to see just how wekll it is learning to shit on a potty instead of a nappy. Ideas spawned by 'experts' who have been about as close to teaching as I have to being an astronaut. They are striking to try and protect the future of their chatges.

Many a public sector job was easy to do before Gubbinsment started sticking their oar in and fucking thisng up. Unions have a place and it isn't always to call a strike to get their members better pay.

You are essentially tarring everyone with the same brush. Is it our collective responsibility to ensure the banks don't give that bloke just above the poverty line a loan? Everyone is within their rights to ask for a loan, and it's the bank's duty to tell them 'no, you can't afford it.'

By that reasoning it's the individual's fault for the economic crisis occuring- whether they took out a sub-prime loan or not. Which is obviously patent bollocks, no offence. Institutional atmospheres of an obsession with income over sustainability and stability, and, frankly, the general selfishness of people, is the main cause.

Absolving the cunts at the top of blame because Joe Average wants a house is utterly wrong.

Unions are great. Strikes are supposed to cause annoyance. That is, after all their purpose.

Asking people to strike on their days off is one of the most ridiculous things I've ever read.
Teachers work very hard and under pressure. Those who strike do not make the rules on taking kids out during term time either. Those rules come from above.

I needed my union when somebody fell from my lorry. I was blameless and followed correct procedure yet an attempt was made to make me the scapegoat. Without my unions help they may have got away with it.

The striking teachers are not telling you you can't take your child on holiday in term time. They are enforcing rules foisted on them by the Department for Education.

I didn't say they were ?  I am not talking about holidays in term time

I am talking about them telling me it is imperative that my child attends EVERY DAY during years 10 and 11, and that even 1 day out can cause problems with their GCSE's - a point made very clear to all parents of my child's school by the head, the year head and the tutor on separate occasions

Wouldn't you say it was fucking hypocritical to say this and then go on strike during term time, exactly the opposite of what they are telling parents is SO important ?

If your child misses a day in years 10 and/ or 11 whilst the others are in lessons, only YOUR child will be disadvantaged. If ALL children miss a day during years 10/ 11 then the teaching staff will structure things so the class as a whole makes up the missed study.

No, what they are supposed to do is get on with their job, and do what they signed up to do !

Unfortunately the government unilaterally changed the goalposts on what teachers signed up for without asking....I'm sure all teachers would happily get on with doing what they signed up for...

I know this is a thread about unions rather than pensions, but this argument of "it's not what I signed up for" often crops up when discussing public sector pensions.

Yes it's unfortunate that you and everyone else in the public & civil service have to pay more into your pensions to get the same, or less, income at the end of it. But it's really not a lot different from the private sector.

Annuity rates have bombed due to falling gilt yields and improved mortality, which means we all have to pay more into pensions to get the same income at the end because statistics show we're much more likely to be paid that pension for an extra 5 or 10 years than was expected when you started contributing to it. That extra 5 or 10 years worth of income has to be paid for somewhere, or you have to accept a lower income in retirement.

Public sector pensions are unfunded, there is no pot of money, the government effectively dips directly into the public purse to pay them. And for the same reason of everybody living longer, you can't expect the promise of more income for longer without contributing something toward it.

I know this is a thread about unions rather than pensions, but this argument of "it's not what I signed up for" often crops up when discussing public sector pensions.

Yes it's unfortunate that you and everyone else in the public & civil service have to pay more into your pensions to get the same, or less, income at the end of it. But it's really not a lot different from the private sector.

Annuity rates have bombed due to falling gilt yields and improved mortality, which means we all have to pay more into pensions to get the same income at the end because statistics show we're much more likely to be paid that pension for an extra 5 or 10 years than was expected when you started contributing to it. That extra 5 or 10 years worth of income has to be paid for somewhere, or you have to accept a lower income in retirement.

Public sector pensions are unfunded, there is no pot of money, the government effectively dips directly into the public purse to pay them. And for the same reason of everybody living longer, you can't expect the promise of more income for longer without contributing something toward it.

Fucking hell really ?

You mean that public sector who have been propped up by the private sector for donkey's years ?

That public sector with unrealistic pensions paid out of the private sector ?

Zero pay rises - ahhhhh poor public sector workers ! They should try living in the real world like the rest of us - I would LOVE a pay rise but unfortunately I also understand that when things are bad in the economy I have to suck it up and wait until things improve

And yeah the bankers -- it was ALL their fault that we took more credit than we could afford - fuck me personal responsibility went right out of the window in the Blair/Brown Bust years didn't it......

I guess you'd prefer to live in a world without the public sector, so no doctors, teachers, firemen, ambulance drivers or armed forces but a nation of double glazing salesmen and photo copier engineers. Unbelievable.

Asking people to strike on their days off is one of the most ridiculous things I've ever read.
Teachers work very hard and under pressure. Those who strike do not make the rules on taking kids out during term time either. Those rules come from above.

I needed my union when somebody fell from my lorry. I was blameless and followed correct procedure yet an attempt was made to make me the scapegoat. Without my unions help they may have got away with it.

So if you sign a legal contract stating you pay in x and they pay in y and then y decide to change the ratios you just accept it? Fuck that.

I guess you'd prefer to live in a world without the public sector, so no doctors, teachers, firemen, ambulance drivers or armed forces but a nation of double glazing salesmen and photo copier engineers. Unbelievable.

So if you sign a legal contract stating you pay in x and they pay in y and then y decide to change the ratios you just accept it? Fuck that.

I just can't resist.

And before I get all of the bollocks about "what about the poor, the sick, the starving" and so on, they were more than adequately looked after by charity and the benevolence of the better off before the state decided to fuck it all up.

What utter bollocks. Look at the US for an example of how well the poor, sick & starving are 'looked after' without a welfare state.

I'd not heard of this fella until it was posted on here. Not interested in politics,  not interested in watching the news as it's mostly depressing.

Teachers in the UK are amongst the highest paid teachers in Europe - full stop !

Pretty much, yes.

There's not much difference between that and, say, me putting £200 per month into my pension expecting a future annuity of £10,000 per year only to then have to put my contribution up to £400 per month to get that same £10,000 per year.

It's still a contract, if you want to get pedantic about it...

have a look at he OECD report from 2012 - they're not that well paid
http://www.oecd-ilibrary.org/education/teachers-salaries_teachsal-table-en

Numeracy test 16 to 24-year-olds

Netherlands
Finland
Japan
Flanders (Belgium)
South Korea
Austria
Estonia
Sweden
Czech Republic
Slovak Republic
Germany
Denmark
Norway
Australia
Poland
Canada
Cyprus
Northern Ireland
France
Ireland
England
Spain
Italy
United States
Source: OECD Survey of Adult Skills 2013

I wonder how that correlates with the recent OECD literacy and numeracy tables for young adults, where England is in the relegation zone...

It doesn't. League table figures for 15 year service primary school teachers in equivalent US dollars.

Netherlands           52,292    1
Finland      37,886    2
Japan              45,741    3
Belgium (Fr.)   44,407    4
Korea              48,251    5
Austria      41,633    6
Estonia      12,306    7
Sweden      34,387    8
Czech Republic   20,185    9
Slovak Republic   12,858    10
Germany      58,662    11
Denmark      50,332    12
Norway      37,585    13
Australia           48,522    14
Poland      16,506    15
Canada      56,349    16
France      33,152    19
Ireland      54,954    20
England      44,269    21
Spain              41,339    22
Italy              32,969    23
United States   46,130    24

The average of those 22 countries is $39,578 so English teachers are paid 12% above that and are still in the bottom four.

2013 Rank


1       Harvard University    US
2       Massachusetts Institute of Technology    US
3       University of Cambridge    UK
4        University of Oxford    UK
5        University of California, Berkeley    US
6        Stanford University    US
7        Princeton University    US
8        University of California, Los Angeles    US
9        University of Tokyo    Japan
10        Yale University    US
11        California Institute of Technology    US
12        University of Michigan    US
13        Columbia University    US
14        University of Chicago    US
14       Imperial College London    UK
16        University of Toronto    Canada
17        Cornell University    US
18       University of Pennsylvania    US
19        Johns Hopkins University    US
20        University College London    UK
20        Swiss Federal Institute of Technology Zürich    Switzerland
22        National University of Singapore    Singapore
23        Kyoto University    Japan
24        University of Illinois at Urbana Champaign    US
25       London School of Economics and Political Science    UK
26        Carnegie Mellon University    US
27       University of Texas at Austin    US
27        University of Washington    US
29        New York University    US
30        University of Wisconsin-Madison    US
31       University of British Columbia    Canada
31       Duke University    US
31       McGill University    Canada
34        University of California, San Diego    US
35       Tsinghua University    China
36       The University of Hong Kong    Hong Kong
37        Northwestern University    US
38        Georgia Institute of Technology    US
39        University of Melbourne    Australia
40       University of California, San Francisco    US
41       Seoul National University    Korea, Republic Of
42       Australian National University    Australia
42       University of Massachusetts    US
44       Ludwig-Maximilians-Universität München    Germany
45        Peking University    China
46       University of Edinburgh    UK
47       University of Manchester    UK
48        University of California, Davis    US
49       The University of Sydney    Australia
50        Lomonosov Moscow State University    Russian Federation
50        Purdue University    US
51-60        Delft University of Technology    Netherlands
51-60       École Polytechnique Fédérale de Lausanne    Switzerland
51-60        Middle East Technical University    Turkey
51-60       University of Minnesota    US
51-60        University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill    US
51-60        The Ohio State University    US
51-60            Osaka University    Japan
51-60        Pennsylvania State University    US
51-60        University of California, Santa Barbara    US
51-60        National Taiwan University    Taiwan
61-70        The Hong Kong University of Science and Technology    Hong Kong
61-70        Karolinska Institute    Sweden
61-70            King's College London    UK
61-70       Korea Advanced Institute of Science and Technology    Korea, Republic Of
61-70            Leiden University    Netherlands
61-70        University of São Paolo    Brazil
61-70        University of Southern California    US
61-70        Technische Universität München    Germany
61-70        Tohoku University    Japan
61-70            Tokyo Institute of Technology    Japan
71-80        Hebrew University of Jerusalem    Israel
71-80        Humboldt-Universität zu Berlin    Germany
71-80        Katholieke Universiteit Leuven    Belgium
71-80         Michigan State University    US
71-80            Nanyang Technological University    Singapore
71-80        Université Paris-Sorbonne    France
71-80        University of Pittsburgh    US
71-80        The University of Queensland Australia    Australia
71-80        Universität Heidelberg    Germany
81-90        University of Amsterdam    Netherlands
81-90        Boston University    US
81-90        Brown University    US
81-90        The Chinese University of Hong Kong    Hong Kong
81-90        École Polytechnique    France
81-90       University of Florida    US
81-90        The University of New South Wales    Australia
81-90        Université Pierre et Marie Curie    France
81-90        Rutgers, The State University of New Jersey    US
81-90        Utrecht University    Netherlands
81-90        Washington University in St Louis    US
91-100    University of Bristol    UK
91-100    Freie Universität Berlin    Germany
91-100    Lund University    Sweden
91-100    University of Maryland, College Park    US
91-100    Monash University    Australia
91-100   Université Paris-Sud    France
91-100    Texas A&M University    US
91-100    Uppsala University    Sweden
91-100    Wageningen University and Research Center

I was pleased to see my alma mater in the list

Peking University?

So if you sign a legal contract stating you pay in x and they pay in y and then y decide to change the ratios you just accept it? Fuck that.

my pension is pretty gosh darned good so I'm taking it early and becoming a drunk - Nationwide's been a good employer I think they stick in about 21% at the moment to my 7%

More fool you then.

I was pleased to see my alma mater in the list

I'm surprised you had time to go to university in your youth...what, with all that shagging & wenching you had to fit in as well.  Must have been a busy time.

You are, of course, correct.

Which august seat of learning did you study at, Reg?

Yep, more fool me for wanting to be able to afford to retire on a decent income.