Thetownend.com

Two in a week. Three young adults killed in two seperate accidents. Sad state of affairs but you have to ask why? Both around 5am, both groups in their 20's.

Final Destination

todays were teenagers and its very sad to hear of such things, but the truth is, young drivers seem to think they are invincible, i was the same at that age, but lucky enough not to get into any accidents.
I sometimes wonder how i got away with some of the things i did.

I dont mean to sound insensitive by the way.

I think of the stupid shit I did when I started driving and its a wonder nothing serious happened. Pure dumb luck.

The statistics of fatalities and accidents with young drivers is alarming. No wonder insurance premiums are so high. 2 fatal accidents and an 18 year old jailed in a week in swindon alone.

Even when bad drivers are caught, they're given a little telling off.

http://www.swindonadvertiser.co.uk/news/10428353.Mum___s_anguish_as_crash_driver_is_given_21_month_jail_term/?ref=mr

"Earlier, prosecutor Hannah Squire told a packed courtroom how just hours before the crash, Cowley, who had only passed his driving test four months earlier, had been warned about his erratic driving by police."

Warned? Just start banning them for their own safety aswell as others.

Bad driving doesn't get the punishment it deserves. I think the laws need to be considerably harsher.

Most of us are tucked up in bed at that time of the morning. I'll not be surprised if one of drugs, alcohol and tiredness are factors in both accidents.

Sad loss of life, a waste infact but you can legislate all you like. You have to catch 'em first. If you don't or can't then cases like this though infrequent are the worst case scenario.   

The standard of driving these days is appalling, what do you have to do to pass your test these days :hmmm:

The test is a lot more thorough though. :hmmm:

Should there be a restriction on the number of passengers a young or inexperienced can have? There were 5 people in this recent crash. I know when I was a teenager, I drove like a twat but particularly when egged on by my mates. Saying that, it was rare for girls to have accidents at 17/18 - nearly all lads in my experience.

The advent of mobiles and texting wont be helping though.

The only way we will stop young people dying on our roads .....is to make sure they are not young when they are driving.

21 minimum age unless accompanied by an adult.

It's hard enough for 18-21 year olds to find a job already without forcing people to reply on a useless public transport system.

Sadly I don't think there is a lot that can be done, new drivers will always be more dangerous on the roads by virtue of inexperience and adding youth to the mix is just adding naivety.

Zero tolerance to drink driving as opposed to a low level of tolerance would make a difference IMO

Hate to say it but at 5am it would almost certainly be drink or drugs with 20 something's. yes it maybe being presumptious but you don't come off the road for no reason. Two people were killed, and could have been a lot lot worse.

So you are saying a youngster would take more notice of zero tolerance :hmmm:

The family of any dead young person would just love to have there kids alive and struggling to find work.

If trying to find jobs are tougher then so be it if it keeps our young people alive.

Its not anti young people..its common sense.

No, I'm suggesting that the current system isn't suitable because alcohol effects different people in different ways. Most people are (arguably) unhindered by one or two units, others can be and that can lead to accidents.

A very good point.....there is no easy solution sadly.

The bigger problem is at the other end of the age scale.

It's frightening how long some old folks go on driving when they lost all sense of awareness on the road and have zero reaction speeds.

With any accident involving drink, drugs or driving recklessly I always wonder why the fuck any passengers got in to the car in the first place. I wouldn't and if I couldn't stop them driving I'd call the Police and grass them up.

The reason we don't have a zero limit for drink driving is because some things (other than drink) can really distort the results.

Its easy to be judgmental when you're older.As a young man i've been in cars with drivers that have been pissed,stoned, taken double figure pills even acid.When you are young you are invincible..its hard wired into your brain to feel that way.

So it aint judgemental then really ....just stating facts....nothing to judge really....your post states the reasons so many youngsters die if that is indeed the case.

As i say our laws and a democratic society make it hard to be tough on young drivers....and of course the youngsters would say rightly so.

Not trying to make out that this is the main factor here, but I do wonder about the safety of that section of the A419 (ie the bit around Swindon).  Since the junctions have been grade-separated at Commonhead and Blunsdon, you almost have a motorway in all but name now from Swindon to the outskirts of Cheltenham.

Which is great in many ways, and saves a lot of time & money for people.  But when you hit Swindon, there are a lot of closely spaced junctions with tight turns...and no reduction in speed limit etc.  The character of the road changes.  It's still a long distance route, but it's also an urban road carrying short distance traffic from one part of Swindon to another - and that will only get worse if the plans to expand Swindon out to the east of the A419 go ahead.  I would not be at all surprised to see a 60 mph limit applied from Blunsdon down to the M4 some time soon.

The road is dangerous yes, very dangerous in fact but both these accidents I hate to say, aren't traffic related. Both at silly times where there would hardly be anything on the road. One where the driver went into the back of a Hgv on a slip road and the other happened on a fairly straight part.

ive read that 3 times and I don't think it makes sense..

I am a bottle of wine down though ,so it could be me?

I thought I was highlander when I was that age.....smashed into a Metal fence as a passenger which came through into the car and I just got out laughing!   Fucking idiot......

I was lucky.

At that sort of age with a car full of mates you think you're invincible and don't think about danger.  I remember coming back from Golddiggas one night, my friend (female) was driving, the car was full to the point one of our male friends was in the boot.  She went past Junction 16, everyone started shouting she'd missed it, so she slammed on the brakes and reversed slightly and went up the sliproad.  Absolute lunacy and we were incredibly lucky that the M4 was deserted otherwise I dread to think of the consequences. 

We used to pull handbrake turns down country roads and fire crow scarers out of the sunroof whilst doing 50 mph.

Fucking stupid i know

On my 19th birthday in 1983 I was involved in a horrific accident on the A419 - our car crossed the central reservation at 70mph backwards, hit a car coming in the opposite direction, split the fuel tank flipped up in the air and exploded - the only saving grace that day is that neither me or the driver were wearing seat belts and were thrown clear as it flipped... All the emergency service we spoke to afterwards could not believe we had got out alive... Aside from a few broken bones and burns we had a lucky escape.  

Thoughts are with the families today... Could have easily be any one of us.

Absolute bullshit - I was a cock when I was 17 and a cock when I was 21 (Cue you're a cock now DMR etc hahahaha zzzz)....

My driving had calmed down a bit but all you would do is postpone young lads driving like oils for 4yrs, not eradicate it. Inexperience is the problem not the starting age but that's jut life. You've got to start sometime and can't have hand-holding forever.

statistics prove age is a factor. You are right to a point though.

This is a good point - I was a cock until I was 26 and to make matters worse I was given a car with blue lights and sirens...

Of course 17yr olds are going to be worse drivers generally, they've barely had a chance to experience the full extent of British roads. It's like any activity, a bit of experience goes a long way. I passed my test 4 years ago and I'm a much better driver than I was then. But I would happily say I've never been a bad driver (least not since the early days of learning), because I fucking love it so put in the effort. Some of my mates who have been driving longer than I have are fucking nutters, and I've refused lifts from some because of it.

I've dobbed in a mate to the police once, after warning him several times about his driving (He's lucky to be alive/not have killed anyone) . He's just got round to taking a retest and passed, and he's a better driver now. I'm still worried about him/his victims if he gets worse later on though.

Saying all young people are shit, however, is just like saying all old people are shit or all middle-aged people are shit. There are people who shouldn't be behind the wheel and that's that. It's unlikely they'll improve massively over their lifespan.

Extending the driving test to include motorways would be a sensible idea. I'm lucky enough that I got a taste of the A303 when I was learning to drive, but fuck was I still terrified the first time I was between two lorries on the m4. There's too much beuracracy and not enough common sense in the test as well. You have to tick certain boxes as opposed to demonstrating your aptitude at controlling a vehicle and understanding, properly, the laws of the road. It's stupid.

Definitely agree about motorway driving; it's a completely different beast to any other driving (speed, number of lanes, slip roads) and should be covered as standard.

Not doing it in lessons with a qualified instructor has also limited my idiot sister from ever attempting it - she relies on trains and buses if she ever wants to leave Swindon, which is pretty sad/pathetic.

I had a few lessons on the A419 whilst I was learning. The idea is to give you a sense of the higher speed and national speed limit and also multiple lanes as well the use of mirrors and checking the blind spot before you change lanes.

The trouble is a lot of youngsters can't wait to get on the high speed roads and show off their speed. I didn't learn to drive until I was 21 and that certainly helped me in terms of understanding the dangers and acting a bit more mature behind the wheel.

It's all well and good having lessons on motorways or dual carriageways, but you can't stop people drink or drug driving. It's one of those awful that someone somewhere will always do.

We don't know the circumstances of the latest accident but it applies to anyone.

The age thing boils down to risk.  Both being able to assess risk and also your affinity or aversion to it.  At 16/17, kids are not that many years beyond when they couldn't cross a road safely on foot, because they had not yet learned how to properly assess the risks.
At 38 now, I can't get on a plane without a good drink inside me, too much knowledge on the potential risks, even if they are small.  As a kid I loved planes.
Same for driving with drink/drugs inside you - the younger you are, the more likely you will assess the risk badly.  That's not to say older people won't do it, just that life experience and exposure to the risks gradually grind your desire to be risky down a little.

Same applies to driving without care or attention and/or speeding which you can witness a greater deal of every single day.

DMR is right, the delaying things until 21 won't help.

There are probably as many if not more people learning to drive in their early 20s as those in their teens. Those under 20 have the most accidents so age is a factor.
That said an idiot is an idiot regardless of age. More drivers need banning for longer and for less.

The proportion of drivers which have fatal accidents between the age of 20-24 is very marginally less than the proportion aged 18 or 19 and actually less than those aged 17.

EDIT: actually the statistics are for casualties, including fatalities.

Couple of people I'm friends with had on their Facebooks 'Oh it's really sad, only speaking to you last night in Lava'

If they were out on the piss and drove home, well..

"

The driver wasnt drinking she fell asleep. Its pretty clear from the witness report. The car just drove off the road.

As she was from Swindon and driving in Swindon I think that is unlikely.
Could have been messing about,fiddling with a phone,blowout etc,etc.

Might have been drinking, then fell asleep

In one of the photos you can clearly see skid marks drifting from the 'fast lane' into the inside lane.

Why was she in the outside line. No other cars involved, so no need to be in that lane.

DMR.

Maybe you were a cock at 21....but most people(except you obviously) would  better prepared for the roads at a sensible age....that being 21.

By your own admission you were a cock at 21....many are not.

We all have an opinion on road safety and they're probably mostly flawed or completely wrong.There's also massive hypocrisy when it comes to stuff like this, the thread is a bit Daily Mail already.

Well it was started by me :)

I read on the Adver website earlier that people had been stopping their cars on the 419 to lay flowers at the scene.

:doh: Morons.

Nobody's blamed immigrants yet.

http://www.racfoundation.org/assets/rac_foundation/content/downloadables/road%20accident%20casualty%20comparisons%20-%20box%20-%20110511.pdf

Not the Daily Mail Sie but the Rac....granted it was 2009 but the first few paragraphs tell you that 15 to 19 year olds are at an incredibly higher risk.

The rest is grim



Bear in mind many of the older drivers die because of health problems(heart attack etc) so the figures for young adults between the age of 15 to 19 are shocking.

Its not anti young people,,,,its just facts..

Yeah I was talking more about the theories, particularly the theory of this accident and how to prevent certain things.

I think there are people such as yourself who has openly admitted in the past that getting done for speeding has made you a better drive and others which have just talked about avoiding speeding tickets but being outraged at the little rascals who zoom around high as a kite or drunk as a skunk.

I think we're all hypocrites when it comes to driving and road safety, I really do.

There is no such thing as a a dangerous road.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AsERM8NL_to

Looks like they were over the limit and messing around whilst driving. Youngsters really do need educating.

http://www.swindonadvertiser.co.uk/news/10868163.Swindon_A419_crash_victims_Kerrylee_O___Leary_Staniford_and_Shaya_Leigh_had_been_drinking__inquest_hears/

That sounds fucking horrific.

Not having a go at you posting, but I wish I hadn't read that.

yeah they were being stupid Sippo, but the paid the ultimate price. Thank **** no other vehicles were involved

It is still sad don't get me wrong, and kids will be kids. I think deaths with 'youngsters' behind the wheel has risen. We need to find out why or try and slow it down. You will always get some that think they are invincible unfortunately.

A mate of mine was one of the first on the scene and he said it was horrific, won't go into details but it knocked him for six.

I know that feeling

Go on spill..

This explains why I got a speeding fine the other week from a mobile camera.... 82mph.  

I'd plead my innocence, but I was relieved to see they'd caught me in that direction....

I'm a cock now, was a cock at 21 and a cock at 17.  The best solution is a device I've been testing - telematics.  But not the blackbox that fits in the car, but via an app on your smartfone.  This can penalise people who break the speed limit, fail to anticipate and hard cornering.  It can also be used to impose a curfew.

The mileage would need to reconciled with the car mind to ensure that the app was always in use whilst driving....

Why do people feel the need to rely on devices, what did we all do before mobile phones and computers  ::)

They sorted out their own DIY issues for one thing...

While I see the general point of not wanting smartphones and computers to run your life, this is a debate about the use of cars which are themselves "devices".

hedge porn.

Cars have onboard computers that can adjust braking etc etc. but ultimately it comes down to the driver to be in control.

Before mobile phones, I used to use the phone at home or a call box....before computers, I'd send letters by post rather than e-mail...read books, rather than google...and talk to people at the match or in the pub, rather than go on a forum. Life was bearable.

this, or somebody else's pervy dad

Super serious topic to hedge porn via a wistful look down memory lane. TEF in a nutshell.

Amen.

The number of cars on UK roads has doubled since the invention of the mobile phone.

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/8995/vehicles-summary.pdf

Mobile phones obviously transmitting some form of 'MUST OWN CAR' disease to people. Only logical explanation.

CaRAPp?

Lived in caves.... It's called progress!