Thetownend.com

old news that he was fuck all to do with terrorists; he was an electrician

loads of people are expressing sympathy for the policeman in question

it's emerged that he shot him 5 times- and that makes me very angry

that's excessive, terrorist or not, and there were 3 policemen there, why shoot him at all, 3 on 1 for fucks sake, no need to shoot

send him down

He was down at the time according to eye witness reports.

Must have considered at the time that he was high risk especially legging it onto the underground.

Don't think it was a copper either more than likely security forces.  

They where shooting to kill no doubt about it.

can't shoot at his body if you think he's got a bomb strapped to his chest can you?

And 3 on 1's no good if one of them is nuts enough to blow themselves to kingdom come.

if they think hes going to blow himself up theres not a lot of good arresting him is there? if he runs away onto a train and was looking dodgy shooting him dead is better than blowing up a train

nonsense

there wouldn't be any chav's left unslaughtered if this is the case

i'm totally behind the police on this.
Like they say you can't shoot them in the body cos they could still detonate the bomb. You can't restrain them cos they could still detonate the bomb so the only thing to do is shoot in the head.
Ok 5 times maybe abit excesive but they needed to kill him.

Apparently now though some reports have said the police didn't tell him they were police and that he was running cos all he saw was 5 men (plain clothed police) with guns. Personally i don't believe that. They must have told him they were police yet he still chose to run.

Anyone could chase you and shout police, i know many people wouldn't! But if he had people after him or something for some other reason, he would just run to be on the safe side if you get what i mean. i'm not saying the police were in the wrong i think they had a lot of reason's to believe he had a bomb. But i don't think they went the right way about approaching him, not that there is a right way to approach someone you think is carrying a bomb!!! so a pointless post, but i hope you get what i'm trying to say!!! :oops:

Also completely with the police and authorities as well. Given the prevailing atmosphere in London, you would have to be insane to run away from anybody who shouted "Police - STOP", particularly in a tube station. There's a Beeb report today which says he had overstayed his Student Visa and was working as an electrician, which might account for the fleeing.

So you only run away if you are guilty of something perhaps? How about:

"Lord Ahmed said some sections of the Muslim community were afraid they could also become a victim of mistaken identity.

"I've been to Bradford, Birmingham and Sheffield during the weekend and people are very concerned," he said.

Lord Ahmed also said it was possible illegal immigrants would run if challenged by the police.

"We know that there are many thousands or hundreds of thousands of illegal immigrants and if they're challenged by the police, they're not going to stand there and produce their ID, they obviously will try and run.

"And whilst we need to catch those illegal immigrants or asylum seekers, nevertheless we can't shoot them because they're not terrorists.

Anyone with dark skin who was running for a bus or Tube could be thought to be about to detonate a bomb, he said."

(From http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4714027.stm )

i know what you mean there stfc11, .
waiting until he got to the tube to stop him when they could have done so back at his house where they first started following him. Plus there would be less people there to harm if he did have a bomb.

If the police had suspicions and the public was at risk then surely they have to act, and the only way they were going to save 'innocent' people was to take action. The only action you can take is to shoot him in the head. I guarantee that if he was a terrorist none of these doubts/accusations in error would be brought up.

this is bollocks. if armed police tell you to stop then you stop -unless you're some retarded brazillian aparantly

Im with piemonte!

Definitely.  In the current climate, you do not run away from armed police officers.  He must have had something to hide, and had the police officer not done his job and the Brazillian had killed many innocent civillians there'd have been uproar.  The public need to get behind the people trying to protect us from terrorists rather than questioning their every action.

Fuck me walrus that is practically teh first post from you I have agreed with
! Im shocked

He ran therefore he automatically deserved to have his fucking brains spread out?

Yeah that's top logic

I think it's pointless speculating on why he ran and what happened because I imagine the police/government aren't being completely honest here. It wouldn't surprise me if this is a bit of a cover up for a complete fuck up on their behalf, hiding behind a case of mistaken identity and preying upon the paranoia of a nation just to get off the hook.

However, I do support the police to an extent although five bullets to the head seems a little harsh :/

No, he deserved to have his brains spread out because there was substantial reason to believe he was a terrorist.  He knew what the armed police were for.  In the current climate all stops must be pulled out to stop people who are fighting a war and are not afraid to die - this is what differentiates this war from anything else.

If we fight this war typical British fashion, football on Christmas Day, playing fair etc. more and more innocent people would have died.  Put it this way.  If the police had had the opportunity to kill him, but merely tried to slap handcuffs on him, and he'd blown himself up along with 50 people in a carriageway, one of which was special to you in some way, how would you feel?

What, David, would you suggest the police do?  Tackle the man and ask him what the bomb-looking device strapped to his waste his for?

the guy who identified the body (his cousin?brother?) said he'd been shot though the back and out the jaw - what!
I don't think you ever find out what happened - even witnesses get it wrong.
I remember watching a TV program about this and not noticing a bloke dressed as a gorilla walking across the fucking screen!
It's sad he got killed - now we move on -  there will be more.

Of course this is all speculation but if in the current climate you here police shout stop or are shoot wouldn't your first reaction to be to get out of the way weather or not you were guilty of anything. Personally I think if I heard 'stop or we'll shoot' shouted then my first reaction would to be to leg it for some cover.

I don't like the police being able to shoot people dead with no reason and 'he might have been a terrorist' is a ridiculous excuse

Ride On Fatbury's Lovestick twat

1. just re-read that point, idiot

2. he had NOTHING on him except clothes

I think that the point here is that the police have to be pretty sure before they use deadly force.

Its not good enough if they have a 'Constable Savage' type attitude e.g. Wearing a loud shirt in a built up area, being in possession of an offensive wife..etc etc.

However, if they have good evidence that proves beyond a reasonable doubt that the person is a terrorist then deadly force is legitimate imho.

That is what has, for years, made our country (imho) a better place to live than the US.

Gawd help us if we decent into the shoot first think later attitude.

NMH

If you know they're police - according to eyewitnesses, they didn't identify themselves as police, they just shouted "Stop! Get on the floor". The bloke's been followed by a gang of dodgy geezers in plainclothes three of who then come up to him, whip out guns and shout at him. OK, I'd like to think in the same circumstances I'd be bright enough to cotton on they were coppers, but I can understand why he might have thought he was being attacked and ran. He may even have thought they were terrorists. I have a lot of sympathy for the coppers in question though, but I think any inquiry should look at the officers commanding the surveillance operation and the nature of the intelligence they were working off and the briefing they were given.

Oh, and on the 5 shots being excessive thing - apparently that's standard. They've taken advice from the Israelis and the Sri Lankans (both of whom have a fair bit of experience in dealing with  suicide bombers) and the idea is that if you only do one head shot you run the risk of missing (like one of the eight shots that was actually fired at the guy hit him in the shoulder) so the advice is at least 5 shots - remember if you've got to the stage of shooting at the bloke, you're assuming he is a suicide bomber so the objective is to kill and kill quickly before he can set anything off.

The man in early reports was rumoured to be an electrician, and had wires eminating from his belt?  I haven't seen recent news reports on this, but has this account been altered?

The police were using low velocity 9mm bullets to minimise the danger to the public and that is why he was shot 8 times,the officers are fully trained to deal with this situation and acted accordingly.IMHO they did the right thing and although i sympathise with the dead mans family ,i fully back our policemen/women,these people are specialists who train for years.They will now be suspended prior to an enquiry and im sure that this incident will haunt them for years to come.Like them or hate them ,they are trying to protect us from the scum called Terrorists.

We will never know why he ran as he is now dead. I expect he had something to hide. However, when it is a state of national security the police will not take a chance. Personaly I don't see what all the fuss is about. I feel sorry for the officer who pulled the trigger as he is being made a scapegoat yet at the end of the day if his last direct order was " Shoot to kill" then surely he was only doing his job?

We will know why he ran.  His visa had expired.  Worth dying for...

Brazillian police shoot 30 people a day.


Perspective lefties eh?

Well, if you want to play that game, they have a suicide bombing on the scale of the London attacks somwhere in Iraq every day. None of which minimises the tragic impact on the families of the victims - sorry but you can't do "perspective" on awful events like this.

No, you really can. I dont think its a tragedy, its entirley his own fault he's dead.

I dont know him or his family and I dont feel the slightest sadness towards what happend. The police made a split second decision which I believe was correct given the information they had at the time.  end of.

To use perspective-  whats better?  one idiots life or the 50 lifes that would have been taken if he had been a suicde bomber

well i read in the news paper that police found details on him in one of the bags that were going to be blown up.

So police were in survaillance on his house for 24hrs and followed him out of his house.

By this time aparantly he was wearing a jacket and they thought he was wearing a bomb under neath this so there direct orders were shoot to kill.

By this time they has shouted "police, STOP!" and the man started running and then what happened, happened!!!

DON'T quote me on this

Oops, sorry. :wink:

Consider yourself quoted :mrgreen:  :wink:

Damn yous Tom   :nono:  :angry:

Beat you for once. :beers:

... well its about time really :wink:

You've missed the point - the comparison I was drawing was between daily suicide bombings in Iraq and one attack (or four, depending on your point of view)  in London, not between the death of the Brazilian guy and the deaths in the London attack. The point being that SW had said that cos Brazilian police shoot 30 people a day this put the bloke being shot in some kind of "perspective" which I don't think it does anymore than the fact that there a lot more of these kind of attacks in Iraq (or for example that there were a lot more deaths in the recent attack in Egypt) puts the deaths in the London attack into "perspective". The tragedies arising from these atrocities are not a numbers game.

Erm, this last bit is clearly bollocks. Of course you can and should try and get a perspective on events such as this. What I meant was that a straight numeric comparison isn't really valid when it comes to loss of innocent life. Apologies for any confusion (mainly confused myself I think)

Yeah youve got suicide attacks in Iraq. So how many are the police shooting over there then? Fucking loads I will bet.

I think its a wonder how more people ARE NOT being shot by police at the present time.

The man was a fool. This was not 'an awful event' its a reality of modern policing against a formidable enemy.

Oh, well that's all right then.

Fuck it pauld, lets leave them all to bomb us, come back when ytour family gets killed and then praise the police for not stopping them.  You knob jock

Mistakes will be made. But its the greater good that counts.

We cant have these bastards taking the piss out of us.

What are you on "pauld". Drugs by judging by the vial crap you are spreading

Get a grip Asher and baconer. I've already said elsewhere that I agree the coppers in the incident had little choice and, faced with an awful decision, acted as they thought best - I'm not criticising the fact that they opened fire on what they genuinely believed to be a suicide bomber. All I said was that Spencer's glib dismissal of the killing of an innocent man on the grounds that the coppers in Brazil are a bunch of brutal bastards didn't make it any less tragic that another innocent bloke died because of a situation created by terrorists. Fuck's sake.

OKAY. Lets settle this. You are an armed police officer, and you are following a suspected terrorist. You follow him through London. He waits for a bus but when one isn't going to come he heads for the tube. You confront him and tell him to stop. He sees/hears you and vaults the barrier at a tube station, running onto a train. He may have a bomb on him, and you don't kow how the bomb could be detonated.

Do you stand there and arrest him taking the risk of you and many others being blown up, or do you shoot him?

His family have said he was given no warning and that he was shot for no apparent reason. How do they know? Were they there?! NO!

post finished, enough said RFE

:wink:

Unfair. It wasnt a dismissal. It wasnt a judgement on the death, more comment on how some people are jumping through hoops about it. People die everyday in far more tragic circumstances. This man had a major major hand in his own death.

Its a serious situation. You need to wake up.

spencer the transit is heading to bristol tomorrow night, if you fancy it shout.  If we dont find a place to kip for free (fatties? I hear you say) then were in the back, me yates and pad........

Sounds good. But work is the destroyer yet again. This will be saturday number 4 and Im thoroughly sick of it.

Still next three saturdays are  :beers: . Oh look the football season has started. Get in.  

As for fatties, id rather kip on the pavement beside the van.

Just got in, found myself lost in scum land and had to sleep outside temple meads under a bench! Not happy

Just got in, found myself lost in scum land and had to sleep outside temple meads under a bench! Not happy

Didnt take the mobile out then?

Never mind.

Just get urself another mobile for going out. Havnt got certain numbers then eh?

Ha ha you know me well, had my moby but its fucked and I couldnt egt hold of the others!

Sorted one for going out now mate so no more ash getting lost and going home (newcastle!)

Don't know what to think on this.

Police say - Wearing heavy overcoat
Family say - Wearing Denim jacket

Police say - Jumped over station barrier
Family say - Went through barrier with a ticket

8 rounds to the head seems a bit excessive to me, but you've got to think that the coppers involved must have really thought he was a serious danger to the public to shoot him that many times. They have to live with the fact that they've killed an innocent man, and his family have to live with the unneccessary death of a loved one.

Both sides are losers, the only winners are the wankers that are prepared to bomb a civilian mass transit system. Apparently the Met Police are receiving hundreds of reports daily of suspicious activity on the tubes and buses, as a result they are overstretched and twitchy. The sooner everyone gives a big :fu:  to the terrorists and gets back to normal the better.

I heard it was 5 shots, and as I said before, what do the family know? They were not there!

And why are the Brazilian authorities moaning?, considering they have one of the most corrupt Police forces in history. :evil:

http://scotlandonsunday.scotsman.com/comment.cfm?id=1707262005

Shot 8 times. Now its the police who are saying he didn't jump the barrier and they definitely were there!

His Visa had ran out and he should have went home...end of.