Title: Help stop the Government spying on our every move Post by: stfcinbmth on Tuesday, April 3, 2012, 14:52:36 The government has just announced a plan to spy on us all, to be pushed through “as soon as Parliamentary time allows”. [1] They want to see details of who we call, text and email, and which websites we visit - without any kind of warrant or reason. They want to force phone and internet companies to install special devices to provide all this data on each and every one of us.
Petition here https://secure.38degrees.org.uk/stop-the-snooping-plan Title: Re: Help stop the Government spying on our every move Post by: Bob's Orange on Tuesday, April 3, 2012, 14:55:09 Its fine by me. I have nothing to hide.
Title: Re: Help stop the Government spying on our every move Post by: Flashheart on Tuesday, April 3, 2012, 14:57:33 Its fine by me. I have nothing to hide. Same here. I don't like hats of the tin foil variety. Title: Re: Help stop the Government spying on our every move Post by: Ardiles on Tuesday, April 3, 2012, 15:02:43 Signed it.
Government exists to serve the people, not the other way around. The state does not own me, and I have not given permission for my private conversations to be accessed by people working for the state. The state can fucking do one, so far as I'm concerned. It should know its place. Title: Re: Help stop the Government spying on our every move Post by: stfcinbmth on Tuesday, April 3, 2012, 15:05:35 Its fine by me. I have nothing to hide. Supporter of the nanny state then Title: Re: Help stop the Government spying on our every move Post by: LucienSanchez on Tuesday, April 3, 2012, 15:07:07 I have nothing to hide, but this does seem a step too far...
Title: Re: Help stop the Government spying on our every move Post by: WR5 on Tuesday, April 3, 2012, 15:09:21 what Ardiles said, apart from the signing it bit as you you may as well piss in the wind than sign a petition
a Title: Re: Help stop the Government spying on our every move Post by: Bob's Orange on Tuesday, April 3, 2012, 15:10:20 Supporter of the nanny state then More of a dangling of the fishing rod really as I am bored! Title: Re: Help stop the Government spying on our every move Post by: Ginginho on Tuesday, April 3, 2012, 15:12:31 Its fine by me. I have nothing to hide. That's fine, but still doesn't make it right. Billions in debt, huge unemployment and their priorities are to spy on us and tax cornish pasties, what a bunch of tosspots. Title: Re: Help stop the Government spying on our every move Post by: Samdy Gray on Tuesday, April 3, 2012, 15:13:08 They can already access all of this information retrospectively if they wanted to, the only difference is this allows them to see it in real-time.
Title: Re: Help stop the Government spying on our every move Post by: Bewster on Tuesday, April 3, 2012, 15:20:20 Can they access my browsing history ?? :wink:
Title: Re: Help stop the Government spying on our every move Post by: 4D on Tuesday, April 3, 2012, 15:29:42 Hope they can see this :moon:
Title: Re: Help stop the Government spying on our every move Post by: stfcinbmth on Tuesday, April 3, 2012, 15:31:10 They can already access all of this information retrospectively if they wanted to, With a court order or warrant Sam How many millions is this going to cost us? Is it really necessary? Quote apart from the signing it bit as you you may as well piss in the wind than sign a petition Possibly WR5, but how else do we get our thoughts across, by the time the next elections get here it will be too late Title: Re: Help stop the Government spying on our every move Post by: Batch on Tuesday, April 3, 2012, 15:33:00 Same here. I don't like hats of the tin foil variety. I don't think this applies to Bangkok, MI6 do that already ;) Another waste of time, money and effort by the Government. They can already ask to monitor anybody they like. Title: Re: Help stop the Government spying on our every move Post by: @MacPhlea on Tuesday, April 3, 2012, 15:34:29 With a court order or warrant Sam How many millions is this going to cost us? Is it really necessary? To look at it another - how many lives is it going to save? Will people complain we should have been doing more to prevent terrorism when a UK 911 strikes? Seriously, this ain't going to used for spying on TEF members wanting sessions over a bit of porn or to grass you up to your boss for slagging you off... Title: Re: Help stop the Government spying on our every move Post by: stfcinbmth on Tuesday, April 3, 2012, 15:36:25 To look at it another - how many lives is it going to save? Will people complain we should have been doing more to prevent terrorism when a UK 911 strikes? Seriously, this ain't going to used for spying on TEF members wanting sessions over a bit of porn or to grass you up to your boss for slagging you off... How many more lives would it save if the cash went to the NHS? Title: Re: Help stop the Government spying on our every move Post by: 4D on Tuesday, April 3, 2012, 15:38:04 Have they said why? I think their time could be better spent, maybe trying to boost the economy of the country - or something like that.
Title: Re: Help stop the Government spying on our every move Post by: WR5 on Tuesday, April 3, 2012, 15:38:11 @MacPhlea that's just what "they" want you to think Title: Re: Help stop the Government spying on our every move Post by: Batch on Tuesday, April 3, 2012, 15:39:50 Seriously, this ain't going to used for spying on TEF members wanting sessions over a bit of porn or to grass you up to your boss for slagging you off... GCHQ are already all over social networking. Its the next logical step, they'll get their terrorist leads from the TEF in the same way the Adver get their scoops. PS Shouldn't you be out fixing the corner between the DRS and Town End? Title: Re: Help stop the Government spying on our every move Post by: Samdy Gray on Tuesday, April 3, 2012, 15:40:50 Google have been doing this sort of thing for years and nobody seems to give a fuck about that.
Title: Re: Help stop the Government spying on our every move Post by: reeves4england on Tuesday, April 3, 2012, 15:43:09 Have they said why? I think their time could be better spent, maybe trying to boost the economy of the country - or something like that. Finally, somebody asks a sensible question! Interesting that everybody's first thought is "how dare they do this to me" rather than asking what the purpose is and what it'll be used for. MacPhlea is spot on - the reality is it'll have next to no impact on any of our lives, as it's not supposed to be a measure to abuse the rights of your average TEF member. As Samdy mentioned, Google are doing this and they ARE targeting at you, yet nobody makes a fuss. Title: Re: Help stop the Government spying on our every move Post by: stfcinbmth on Tuesday, April 3, 2012, 15:53:43 Google have been doing this sort of thing for years and nobody seems to give a fuck about that. Google aren't using our taxes to do it Title: Re: Help stop the Government spying on our every move Post by: calumscott on Tuesday, April 3, 2012, 15:55:06 As one in the industry...
1) they're not going to be able to monitor your actual communications in real time, just what/who you interact with. So if you are busy pinging DMs on twitter to Abu Hamza they might raise an eyebrow. Berating Vincent Pericard for being shit at football, not so likely. 2) to get to the "what you actually said" level of detail they'll still need a warrant just as they do now. 3) it's not just Google. Microsoft and a dozen other massive media players know more about you than any government will ever know about you. They have the cash and the ability to use that data to get more cash. Governments don't have that driver. 4) it's not just the media outfits. Every company of any size that you've ever bought something from, got an insurance quote from etc etc know everything down to your inside leg measurement. Well... nearly... That said, they really do want to be a bit more open about what exactly it means to your average joe. So explain the process as it would apply to you and me. Rather than just banging on about catching terrorists - we *know* they want to catch bloody terrorists - explain the new law to the people who pay their wages, explain what they can and can't do in real terms that mean something, relate it to twatter, facebook, the TEF... Title: Re: Help stop the Government spying on our every move Post by: Samdy Gray on Tuesday, April 3, 2012, 15:55:34 Given the thread title, I thought you were more concerned about the spying than the wasting of your tax money.
Title: Re: Help stop the Government spying on our every move Post by: Batch on Tuesday, April 3, 2012, 15:59:47 So Google are searching through my emails and keeping track of which web sites I visit (as in me personally not some browser somewhere in Swindon)? What bastards.
The safeguards that this information can only be used by the intelligence services for reasons of counter terrorism need to be water tight. My concern isn't that they'll see anything of interest because they won't, but that the information will eventually be given third parties - perspective employers, for direct marketing, police, etc. Far-fetched and ridiculous, maybe, but having seen the national identity card fiasco I'm not 100% convinced it is. Title: Re: Help stop the Government spying on our every move Post by: Ardiles on Tuesday, April 3, 2012, 16:01:30 Finally, somebody asks a sensible question! Interesting that everybody's first thought is "how dare they do this to me" rather than asking what the purpose is and what it'll be used for. But I don't care why. Even if there was a cast iron rationale being provided (and there isn't), I'd still have grave reservations about this. It's initiatives like this that change relationship between the individual and the state. Sounds waffly, but I think it's an important point. If you look the other way when initiatives like this go through, you can't complain when years down the line you realise you are effectively owned by the state...which is basically a collection of other blokes and women who are appointed by politicians who seek re-election every so often. All a bit tenuous. If these blokes/women want to have a look at my private correspondence, I'll want a look at theirs. Fair's fair. Title: Re: Help stop the Government spying on our every move Post by: stfcinbmth on Tuesday, April 3, 2012, 16:02:52 Given the thread title, I thought you were more concerned about the spying than the wasting of your tax money. Bit of both Sam Bearing in mind the shit state of the economy, should they really be wasting money on daft schemes likes this @calum, thanks for the info Title: Re: Help stop the Government spying on our every move Post by: Saxondale on Tuesday, April 3, 2012, 16:07:04 Saves me going to london and telling david cameron that I think he's a cunt. I can just do it here. And michael gove. He's a cunt too. The list could get a bit long though.
They are given a mandate to govern by the people, the people can take that mandate away. Ive signed it. Title: Re: Help stop the Government spying on our every move Post by: stfcinbmth on Tuesday, April 3, 2012, 16:12:05 Far-fetched and ridiculous, maybe, but having seen the national identity card fiasco I'm not 100% convinced it is. Wasn't there another one, with an NHS computer system? Title: Re: Help stop the Government spying on our every move Post by: Nomoreheroes on Tuesday, April 3, 2012, 16:13:28 How many more lives would it save if the cash went to the NHS? 1000 terrorists lives no doubt!Title: Re: Help stop the Government spying on our every move Post by: ghanimah on Tuesday, April 3, 2012, 16:14:08 Its fine by me. I have nothing to hide. What makes you think having nothing to hide makes you immune from the government abusing its power? Title: Re: Help stop the Government spying on our every move Post by: yeo on Tuesday, April 3, 2012, 16:16:11 I thought there was already a key word thing that detected words like bomb.
Maybe that was just on Spooks Title: Re: Help stop the Government spying on our every move Post by: Bob's Orange on Tuesday, April 3, 2012, 16:16:13 What makes you think having nothing to hide makes you immune from the government abusing its power? apart from not living in the UK, probably nothing. Title: Re: Help stop the Government spying on our every move Post by: Spencer_White on Tuesday, April 3, 2012, 17:27:06 I think they are doing all this already. They just want to be able to put it to the courts.
Its totally out of order though. Title: Re: Help stop the Government spying on our every move Post by: Bennett on Tuesday, April 3, 2012, 19:13:02 I thought there was already a key word thing that detected words like bomb. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wwHRrb5G-QITitle: Re: Help stop the Government spying on our every move Post by: Nomoreheroes on Wednesday, April 4, 2012, 12:46:04 I don't believe what I read in the paper this morning. Its the truth. There's no smoke without fire. Their reporting never fails. I just can't wait 'til it drops through the box in the morning. Its my treat for the day with my wife. She's still yawning as we read every page. Its the truth no distortion never tales. Stuck in Daily Mail Land, but you don't understand!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u7g2d9mOPuw Title: Re: Help stop the Government spying on our every move Post by: 4D on Wednesday, April 4, 2012, 12:59:08 Do prisoners still get their mail read? I am not a number!!!! :fear:
Title: Re: Help stop the Government spying on our every move Post by: china red on Wednesday, April 4, 2012, 13:11:51 I suppose it means we can blame the government when things go horribly wrong. Terror attacks not stopped etc etc (god forbid they happen)
I used to work for the British government here a few years ago and we were warned that the offices were more than likely bugged. In fact a few people I know claim that our phones, emails and the like are being monitored and I don't care. I do the same things that anyone else would do, I have no intention of murdering or molesting anyone and if someone is really interested in what I look at or download from the internet then good luck to them. Title: Re: Help stop the Government spying on our every move Post by: stfcinbmth on Friday, April 6, 2012, 07:45:30 The Yanks are at it as well, but globally
http://www.avaaz.org/en/stop_cispa/?cl=1705092149&v=13515 Title: Re: Help stop the Government spying on our every move Post by: leefer on Friday, April 6, 2012, 08:24:07 I suppose it means we can blame the government when things go horribly wrong. Terror attacks not stopped etc etc (god forbid they happen) I used to work for the British government here a few years ago and we were warned that the offices were more than likely bugged. In fact a few people I know claim that our phones, emails and the like are being monitored and I don't care. I do the same things that anyone else would do, I have no intention of murdering or molesting anyone and if someone is really interested in what I look at or download from the internet then good luck to them. Agree completly BUT,i think its the scenario when things go wrong,you know like the complete balls up with the Brazilian shot in cold blood for no reason in London the is the worry. With the Met being done for rife racism amongst other things and they work closely with our terror police there is reason to be a little bit curious of how good a job they will do. Of course our secret services and such do a lot of good work we know nothing about and i suppose its a case of us all having to accept that fuck ups will happen in the quest to keep the majority safe. Title: Re: Help stop the Government spying on our every move Post by: Only Me on Friday, April 6, 2012, 08:59:49 The Yanks are at it as well, but globally http://www.avaaz.org/en/stop_cispa/?cl=1705092149&v=13515 Registered with that one as well, cheers. Title: Re: Help stop the Government spying on our every move Post by: Flashheart on Friday, April 6, 2012, 09:04:29 Agree completly BUT,i think its the scenario when things go wrong,you know like the complete balls up with the Brazilian shot in cold blood for no reason in London the is the worry. With the Met being done for rife racism amongst other things and they work closely with our terror police there is reason to be a little bit curious of how good a job they will do. Of course our secret services and such do a lot of good work we know nothing about and i suppose its a case of us all having to accept that fuck ups will happen in the quest to keep the majority safe. I imagine it'd be chilling to know the ways in which they protect us. There's real live Harry Pearces and James Bonds out there saving the country/planet. Granted it won't happen every week as in spooks though Title: Re: Help stop the Government spying on our every move Post by: Iffy's Onion Bhaji on Friday, April 6, 2012, 10:09:14 Saves me going to london and telling david cameron that I think he's a cunt. I can just do it here. And michael gove. He's a cunt too. The list could get a bit long though. They are given a mandate to govern by the people, the people can take that mandate away. Haha my thoughts exactly. Title: Re: Help stop the Government spying on our every move Post by: Spencer_White on Friday, April 6, 2012, 20:02:53 How can the Liberal Democrats even begin to call themselves Liberal if they put this through? Is it the job of every elected party to forget everything they stood for once they get into office?
Didnt Obama pledge to close Guantanamo? Fraud. I dont like George Galloway one bit. But if he could teach our regular politicians that we are sick of inaction and pre election lies, then that could only be a good thing. Title: Re: Help stop the Government spying on our every move Post by: RedRag on Saturday, April 7, 2012, 08:05:47 It's initiatives like this that change relationship between the individual and the state. Sounds waffly, but I think it's an important point. If you look the other way when initiatives like this go through, you can't complain when years down the line you realise you are effectively owned by the state...which is basically a collection of other blokes and women who are appointed by politicians who seek re-election every so often. All a bit tenuous. If these blokes/women want to have a look at my private correspondence, I'll want a look at theirs. Fair's fair. This Read 1984 Actually the Pox forum is a lot more fun Title: Re: Help stop the Government spying on our every move Post by: ron dodgers on Saturday, April 7, 2012, 17:58:10 don't sign it - you'll end up padlocked in a sports bag in Whitehall
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