Thetownend.com

Sorry but this just makes my fucking blood boil.  It's about time Britain grew some bollocks and told the EU to fuck off

http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/news/article.html?in_article_id=526839&in_page_id=2

Er...well yes quite, but unfortunately our political classes are great lovers of the EU project - telling the EU to 'fuck off' is not an option for them. Nevermind, a bailout of Spain is impending, so we can get our wallets out again.

I'd love to leave the EU... doesn't do the likes of Switzerland much harm.

The problem is if Britain had the same Crisis as Portugal the EU wouldn't be so forthing in supporting us because we didn't opt for the Euro. 

Whilst it's not nice to see another Country hit crisis the EU don't care that we have our own problems and I just can't help feel that as a country we get shafted by the EU time & time again.

I didn't read the news item above because the european question just makes me angry.
The first vote I was eligible for was the referendum on the COMMON MARKET.  I duly listened to the pros and cons and asked my Dad for his views.
Having fought the Germans on the Dutch border, his main concern was peace in Europe, as you could imagine. 
Off i tootled and voted YES. Not the first mistake I made in my then short life and I'm sure I'll make a few more before I peg it.
It was the COMMON MARKET that i voted for not the present mission creep it as become.  You can see why people don't believe their politicians and why they are held in such low esteem.  Only above Solicitors, Accountants and the wide boys in the banking industry.

 Another thing. Any business that flies the european flag never gets my patronage

I was too young to vote (being only 1 year old) but of those that did nearly everyone I speak to regrets the 'yes' vote, like you do - "If I knew then what I know now" etc is a common theme.

Sadly it was never just a 'common market' - that was only ever a 'side effect' - the EU today is largely what was originally envisaged albeit still incomplete, as the 1957 treaties of Rome make clear and also this 1971 Government document shows (released under the 30 year rule)

http://www.sovereignty.org.uk/features/eucon/fcosov.html

In essence Ted Heath lied .

but swiss banks are full of dirty money. Morally, I'd rather we didn't pander to criminal activity by offering secrecy.

The problem with getting out of the EU is that no major party will adopt that as a policy. UKIP are the only option if that is what you want, but there are too many other issues that concern voters for it to make a difference. The only time they do really well is when the result of the election is not seen as importance ie Euro elections

 I think the EU is great especially for younger people....all sorts of opportunities opened up.

 Personally I've got involved with several clever women who've come to Britain for work, solely because of the EU. We need more breaking down of barriers between people not less.

On the face of it I for one would be quite happy if we got out of the EU and pulled the forces out of Iraq, Afghanistan and Libya as well. I also suspect that if I was prime minister I would be strongly advised that there are lots of reasons (future trade relations etc.) that would mean it wouldn't be a good idea to go ahead? There must be reasons why none of the major parties are in favour other than they are all wankers?

It's greed. Think about it. The big EU super state that they will want it to become. They all want a piece of it. It's all about their egos that's why they are all for it rather than against it. I do agree that we should pull out of it all together and bring all of our troops back as well. Let's be honest the country is a mess and the home front needs sorting more than anything else. It beggars belief that we have gone into Libya. If the reasons stated for going in are true then why didn't we go into Zimbabwe a few years back as well? The answer is simple. Oil. I'm not normally one for big political debate but what i'm basically saying here is that politics is mostly corrupt.

Portugal can fuck off.

Cunts.

well said, sort this fucking not so great britain out first, rant over

It's actually more to do with trade than anything else.  The majority of our business is done with other EU countries so it makes sense to be part of it to ensure free trade, plus the bargaining power it gives us with other parts of the World mainly in relation to trade agreements also.  Freedom of labour movement is another positive in most respects, although Reg may have other reason for his belief in that one.

My problem with the EU has always been it's undemocratic nature, although that's not really what's being discussed here.  The Euro was always going to be a difficult tightrope to walk, and it's unfortunate that we are dragged into the mess somewhat, when in hindsight we made the correct decision to stay out.

has or can someone find out how much money other countries are giving to bail out the potugeezers, as it always seems to be us giving more,

Well i see Mr Cameron agreed to give Pakistan £650 million in aid to build schools over the next five years on his little face saving jaunt the other day,now it being Pakistan isn't the issue,could be Norway for what it is worth,my gripe is that we can't fund our own local services but at a drop of a hat we can pledge astronomical money to a country who has just spent over a billion on new warships from China!

You couldn't make it up.

Osbourne has got us out of it, but only from 2013.

E: The bailout fund that is.

Would you continue to give money to a company if that company won't have their accounts signed off due to fraud?

No....Well we still give money due to the EU despite them not having their accounts signed off due to fraud. In fact, if it was a company there would've been a criminal investigation by now.

The sooner we get out the better, but there is too many politicians on the gravy train.

Most people did when Mick the Greek was in charge.

Probably a bad example for STFC fans that one SO69!

Where's TalkTalk when you need him?

My mrs had her income support stopped (she was Ill) because I earn too much...now the government decides to sponsor Portugal, fucking africa and the rest of them in loans/aid.

Half these countries wouldn't do it to us if we needed the help.
Politicians are all cunts in my view, I may appear ignorant saying the above comment but it makes my fucking blood boil.

I paid 600 quid in tax last month, I'm the main earner in my house, I pay full rent etc and the fucking council offered me 10 quid a month in housing benefit.

Fucking jokers.

Then gringo or ackmed from Somalia comes over and gets everything fucking paid for.

Rant over.

Ill lend you the £10 ;)

Fuck off

Is your tax code right? I dont pay that much and i bring home 2k a month

Yeah it is
I'm taking home just over 1400 at the moment, despite the fact I'm expected to bring in 300,000 quids worth of business a year. Fucking wankers

Just a point about us 'bailing out' Portugal. I'm not arguing about the morality of our government making cuts at home, then suddenly finding cash to send abroad. If that were true, I'd be as pissed off as everyone else. Problem is, it's bollocks.

Think about it: Sterling is backed by thin air. There are some gold reserves left over, but not nearly enough to protect sterling from a run. Confidence in the currency is all that keeps it afloat, a bit like the Dollar.

Take away confidence - like we saw at the start of this recession (US subprime mortgages ruined confidence among institutions relying on the interest  payments - and all hell breaks loose.

Quantitative Easing (printing more money) then kicked in globally and interest rates dropped rapidly in the hope that confidence would return or that enough time would pass and that people would just move on.

In a fractional reserve, fiat currency system, Banks create money from thin air. Roughly speaking, for every £100 loaned out, they create another £900 to loan out again, and so on.

So, 'Bailing out' Portugal involves the creation of loans, backed by fuck all. The interest charged will make someone a shedload though. 

As I understand it, Portugal can't borrow the money it needs at a reasonable rate, so we and others (as agreed) borrow it at a cheaper rate and lend it back to Portugal on terms - not really worth getting angry about is it?

How the fuck do you take home £2k a month and pay less than £600 in tax? What's your name Sir Philip fucking Green? I net about £2.5k and wave goodbye to twice that. OK some of it's pension and NI, but over half of it is tax.

It's because Osborne hates you and steals all your money.

Depends if its take home (net) or gross pay innit

I think Lumps just wanted to wave his "I earn more than you" cock at tans.

I'd much prefer that we put up 3bn to help a neighbour get funding, than just write off a 6bn vodaphone tax bill. Oh.

We should put the money into education. Specifically, geography.

There is a difference though - as with the Irish, we're loaning Portugal the money at a profitable interest rate. We just gave Vodafone, Top Shop etc the billions they got off their tax. Maybe otanswell could take up his excessive tax bill with his employers?

Technically we're loaning the money, but in reality we're giving it to them. If there was a good chance of getting it back then the markets would have lent it to them instead. There's no way Greece, Ireland or Portugal can afford to pay it back - they're bankrupt and will eventually default.

You're normally well keen on a bit of one-upmanship, is it fair to assume you're on less then? ;)

Obviously I take home double and just didn't want to boast.

You dont understand it,the reason they can't borrow it is because they are broke, people and nations that are broke will not get credit the money we give them ala Ireland wont be paid back,its a bailout,call it a low cost loan if you want but thats just the official line.

Im glad we are not in the Euro, because then we really would be held to ransom by the likes of Ireland, Portugal and Greece. Greece in particular seems completely unable to deal with debt or balance its economy.

When I went to India I had to send my passport off for 6 weeks for a VISA, then you can only get Rupees in India. Obviously it wouldnt be that bad going to France if we were not in the EU, but we do take for granted our freedom of movement in the EU. I think its great and Id do more of it if I could! When you go to Western Germany I would say it becomes clear that they have much more to lose from the EU than us.

As for immigration, I think the problem is the immigration from outside the EU. The ones from inside will integrate.

Hehe, my employer is vodafone actually !

Fuck the EU. The EU needs us more than we need them. Noboody has signed up for what we've got. We signed up for a free trading zone not to be ruled by unelected corrupt fuckwits.
We totally fucked our Commonwealth partners when we joined hence the anomositry towards us from previous partners.
A totally corrupt organisation and flooding Africa with cheap agricultural produce is not helping their economies.
The political equivalane of the cunts down the A420

It's perfectly straightforward - we tell the Portuguese "Sure, you can have £3bn to help you out of the hole you dug for yourselves. You can have the £3bn+ Iceland owes us. Go get it off them" and roll up two bad debts into one.

Indeed, Iceland aren't even in the EU and yet we seem to have bailed them out.

We're just lovely generous people, really aren't we? Any nation in need can simply turn up in a London subway with a suitable size hat (sombrero/viking helmet) and a cardboard sign saying "Please help - bankless and destitute, useless financial system to feed" and we'll shower them in riches we don't have.

God help us when they work out the international finance equivalent of chugging

Iceland have all the benefits of being in the EU (i.e. access to our money) but none of the copious drawbacks - can't blame 'em really.

'Fraid not, we signed up to 'unelected corrupt fuckwits' from the start, the concept of the 'common market' was always a myth - the Treaty of Rome (among other things) made this clear.

Not around. This forum is full of abusive twats when you have an opinion that others don't like.


This. Ghanimah speaketh the truth.

I might grace you with my presence again when the whole fucking system goes tits up and we have petrol bombs in Parliament Square just so I can say that 'I told you so'. I told you so btw.

Thanks for dropping by Talk Talk.

I'll disagree with this. Most voters at the time was voting for or against a free market for separate countries.  No thought was given to mission creep. A term invented in a more cynical age.

Indeed it was spun to the voters as a 'Common Market', nothing to worry about (and by the time the referendum happened we were already in the EEC) but it never was just a 'free market' instead it was the road to full political integration. The Heath Government who took us in knew full well the true nature of what he signed up to. The EU isn't where it is now by mission creep but (largely) by design made clear from the outset.

Really?? Are we just going to let this slide???

[url width=400 height=299]http://ganjataz.com/general-bollocks/images/by-GT/forum-shitz/pot-kettle-black.jpg[/url]

I thought it was fair enough. In fact "sole purpose of forum" wouldn't have been far off the mark. Let's face it, this isn't the first place you think of if it's high-minded intellectual debate you're after. The philosophical considerations of time-travel bum sex though and this is Hot Spot Central

Oh cock off you bumder

Brilliant.

:D superb!