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If you think back to the 60s and 70s (and even further back) you could make a list of exceptional talented singer songwriters, and bands. The Beatles, The Rolling Stones, Led Zeppelin, Neil Young, you could go on and on.

In say 50 years, are the youth of today going to look back with fond memories of Justin Bieber and Michelle McManus and the rest of automatic millionaire X Factor Winners?

Of course the answer is no. Where did it all go wrong?

SIMON COWELL

When record labels started manufacturing bands. The zombie like public swallowed it hook, line and sinker and now wouldn't know true musical talent if it smacked them around the face.

Manufactured bands are nothing new - The Monkees were one.

I think there has always been an element of manufactured bands etc. There were exceptional bands in the 80s and 90s and still are today  - though I think the dominance of certain styles of 'music' keeps these out of the limelight.

I think that is fair. I forgot my Ipod the other day and had to listen to the radio. Unfortunately Mika came on and I decided that silence was golden!

....and the Sex Pistols

When you take Robert Rafelson and Bert Schneider (Monkees) with Malcolm Maclaren (Sex Pistols) and then Stock Aitken and Waterman then you have a recipe for music manufacture that even Simon Cowell would be jealous of.

There is shit in every era.  You may have to look harder for the quality these days but thats because the media perpetuating the shit is so all pervasive.

Make the effort and you can find brilliant songwriting and brilliant musicianships even in the era of cowell, bieber etc etc.

Alot went wrong when people starting looking down their noses at people who are not squeeky clean.

Talking of Bieber

http://lesbianswholooklikejustinbieber.tumblr.com/
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Isn't it tradition for the previous generation to moan about what the current generation call music.

I mean look at the difference in trends: from 60s love and peace hippy fest->70's punk rebellion->80's lame/new romantic/electro/pill popping -> 90s Britpop->2000's whatever.

That said I don't think I'll ever "get" going to a gig to see somebody mime because they are too busy dancing to sing. Or not play their own instruments. Or whatever. 

In the 60's, there was a considerable amount of talent, brought together (mostly by drugs) that could have cared less whether or not the public liked them.  In the 70's, bands continued the tradition, but worked to achieve commercial success (thus, disco).  It wasn't until the 80's that money became the motivation to make music.  The talent has been diluted by money.

Diluted Peoples you could say ;)

dunno about anyone else? but the shit modern day music(and boy is it shit) just gives me the chance to go back in time and discover the real gems that passed me by when i was younger.

There is plenty of good music around arriba.....just not in the charts so us older fuckwits dont hear/see it......a lot of the old stuff is shit................we think it is good because it reminds us of happy/funny times.

There is still great music being written and performed.  The X Factor is simply this generation's equivalent of the Edwardian music hall.  It's low-brow, cheap & cheerful entertainment for the masses.  Nothing more than that.  It exists alongside a thriving quality music industry, just as it always has done.

In future, I don't think Justin Bieber will any more be compared to the Beetles than George Formby is now compared to Mozart.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=om7O0MFkmpw

American? sorry (skipast the ads) :)

It's total bollocks to say manufactured artists have fucked up music. Sure they might have taken over the charts but there is still plenty of decent stuff out there. If anything it is better than ever as music is more accessible than it ever has been before due to the internet, so there's a far bigger range within reach and it ain't all crap.

Not even sure there is more manufactured artists than before, it's just than Cowell has perfected the form on TV. It's also helped in some ways, as song writers who can write great songs but can't sing now have a better outlet for their wares.

Plus you can't have a discussion about manufactured artists without including Motown who did it to levels that even Cowell will never reach. You don't hear anyone criticizing them for it, why single out Cowell?

Anyone that thinks we've reached some kind of nadir for popular music wants to have a look at

http://www.wwwk.co.uk/music/hit-singles/70s.htm

1972's a cracker, with classics from Chicory Tip, Lieutenant Pigeon, David Cassidy, Gilbert O'Sullivan, Little Jimmy Osmond, Donny Osmond, New Seekers, and The Pipes & Drums & Military Band of The Royal Scots Dragoon Guards.

Fuck even the Chuck Berry No.1 from that year was "My ding a ling"!

Leave our Gilbert out of it. One of Swindon's finest from Frobisher Drive.

I also think it is easier to look back on music from other eras and cherry pick the best music, perhaps unwittingly so. People forget the shit in time, or at least it is easily ignored.

That was kind of what I was driving at.

Yeah I didn't want to quote myself though.

As a fully qualified oldie I guess, (who was convinced I would never last beyond 40), I've got to say that every era has it's classics & dross. If you think back to crap like the birdy song, in the past.
I've got to say that I have only in the last decade "discovered" glastonbury, & love nothing better than listening to a lot of todays music there as well as some of the past greats like Neil Young, Roger Walters etc etc.
I do not dislike X factor. At least some of them can sing. Some manufactured acts in the past couldn't. What does amuse me tho is the protest groups who vote for someone who can't sing, in order to spite simon Cowell, seemingly not realising that every vote is money into his pocket. Then there is the rage against the machine which in my opinion was dross itself, & then that idiotic 4 mins of silence.

What annoys me is that a crap cover of a good song got to number one, whilst the original was only number 4 or 5. That tells me all I need to know about the record buying public - most of them are a bunch of window licking retards.

What do we do when we run out of songs to cover? X-factor will die on its arse

There has always been shit music, but Simon fucking Cowell does not help the situation.  Odorous git.  We need a new John Peel.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9KiLeUV98nY

 If music be the food of love.... play on.

If music be the food of love...stand by for a good rogering.

Deadmau5 will go down as one of the modern great entertainers. I'll look back on plenty of metal bands too.

For fucks sake B3nny.  We get it.  You like Deadmau5.

I don't give a fuck whether or not you get it. It's relevant to the thread and I'm still buzzing like fuck off the gig.

You want to hear good music then look out for anything produced by Fraser T Smith in 2011

That'll be the e's and whizz mate

In years to come Benny and STFC Gazza will be the founders and sole members of the deadmouse appreciation society

Clearly you are still buzzing.  You're not back to fucking reality anyway are you.

If Deadmau5, proves to be one of the great modern entertainers and not just a very highly regarded dance music act, then I will eat my cock.

The thread is about the music industry in general, not a 'isn't my favourite act great' thread.  As such I didn't think it was relevant.

The question in the opening post put to us, in 50 years time will youngsters looks back... blah blah blah..

So in 50 years time we'll be able to look back on acts - such as Deadmau5 - and see whether he strikes a chord with the youth of the future.
I know he didn't start the whole playing dance music live thing but I think it's heading more and more that way.
Sadly guitar music will become redundant imo. and more acts like this geezer will come to the fore.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UiInBOVHpO8

This one's a little old now but you get the idea. Music is gonna get weird.

and of course people aren't going to look back and find fucking X-factor contestants. If people are trying to sell the music of the past to new generations on the strength of that then we don't stand a chance. Which is why they'll need steering in the right direction.

feck e's. Mandy is soo much better.

I'm pretty sure in the 1950s the electric guitar and rock n roll was labelled as a fad. I can't see it.

Hey man, I love rock and metal etc. but I'm getting bored of it to be honest. How much more can  be done? Maybe I'm missing something but I haven't found a new band that I've really wanted to get my teeth into for quite a while now.

They obviously weren't ready for it yet, but I bet their kids loved it!

The whole of music history has been about fads, and moving with trends. It's nothing new

Cheers for reminding me Sam, someone has had my Back to the Future boxset for about 2 years and I need to go get it back from them.

I think youngsters will always look back and some of them think oh it was shit, some will look further and find the wheat from the chaff.  There's an awful lot of chaff in every era in my opinion.  Im not disagreeing that deadmau5 is a very good artist, you wont find many more open minded to music than me.

Anyway, I like the Dub Fx track.  The loop thing is being done widely and has been done for a few years now.  David Ford, Feist, Martina Topley Bird, Joseph Arthur are all more conventional singer songwriters who have been using this for quite a few years.  This one is from 2006 I believe.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4VtZfRDEvdg

I fucking love "dance music" and have S or so Deadmau5 records, but I'm inclined to agree with you. His music is just very hooky. It's seriously bland though. If you listen to any of his tunes as much as you listen to a normal tune, you tire very quickly. For instance, the first 5 minutes or so of "Not Exactly" is superb. But then the following 5 (10 minutes on a impossibly repetitive tune?!) are almost identical and it's progression towards the end is like a tagged on after thought.

Deadmau5, as a live act and producer, will no longer be by this time next year.

'Guitar Music' will always be around, in various stages of rock/Indie, There is a scene that its not mainstream but it buzzing so much, so much good music being produced its really refreshing.

In terms of Deadmau5, I dont think he will be looked back in the same way as say Prodigy, and the Live thing was pioneered by Daft Punk. And he really didnt set Ibiza alive this year as he was expected too. Seen him 3 times at Amnesia this year and it was all a bit Meh!!

Saying that, I know what its like to come back from a gig buzzing your tits off Class 'A's!, even if Mandy and E is the same thing pretty much

music industry has become a closed shop, even the independants have closed ranks, anything you get to hear comes from the majors or the same 5 or 6 indies.

saying that im digging steve mason and field musics albums from this year, great songwriting.