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no.  last season is a benchmark for this season.  why wouldn't football fans discuss how their team is progressing or nor progressing

Agreed

Perhaps I should have rephrased it as "Please can we stop assuming that we are the same side this season than last and stop with the ridiculous claims that because we did so and so last season we will do the same again this"

We are shit this season. We've got rid of our two best players and haven't adequetly replaced them, wilson has no fucking clue what our best formation is.

I await the happy clappers with their high and fucking mighty patronising comments towards me. Fuck it. I'd love to be proven wrong and see us top 6, but from what i've seen this season it isn't going to happen.

We are shit this season?  Have a word with yourself you dozy cunt.

We've beaten saints twice and huddersfield. We got a draw at Carlisle when they were flying and have also beaten rovers (Something we couldn't manage last season). Doesn't look to me like a shit team.

Inconsistent? Yes, just like nearly all the teams in the league (Which is why it's so tight).

Sense of perspective is missing somewhere.

We're not shit you fool. Nothing more needs to be said, alright buddy?

Does this forum not like people called Dave?

Heaven forbid people ever have their own opinion!

Our problem is we haven't been able to put out the same team week in week out like last season, once we can do that we'll settle down. And as for having an opinion, that's fine, just if people keep on banging out the same old shite post after post they'll irritate people and get stick.

They have their opinion and I have mine. That's what a forum is about isn't it? Get off that high horse Sam, you'll get a nosebleed.

That was more in response to Benny's "I'm right, you're wrong" reply. But yeah, fuck off.

That's hurtful.

No, they're arseholes

Ooh, goody, the "opinion" thing again. Like that justifies all manner of being wrong. In this case, it is my strong opinion that the claim that "We are shit this season" is dribbling shite of the worst order and dave in question should administer himself a good hard slap. But that's just my opinion so no-one's allowed to criticise it

::)

Here we go again.

Well, FFS. The bloke comes on talks a load of shite, people rightly point that out and then they're in the wrong because it's his opinion? Fuck that

I think we are playing rubbish football this season and don't really buy into the 'we're nearly there' claptrap.

That's my opinion, it is mine and belongs to me and i own it

[url width=144 height=256]http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/uncyclopedia/images/e/e2/Anne_elk.jpg[/url]

My opinion is we are not shit. Thus in my opinion, making Dave a fool for thinking so.

we aint shit.we are not progressing though and have gone backwards.we look a mid table side and have looked one from the start of the season.
the players aint looked comfortable with the change in formations.some of them aint at it like last year too.
it can be addressed but will cost money.i can't see that becoming available in the sums we need to progress from last year.
get used to a season of frustration.

Last season we started off slow but took off at the start of November when Charlie signed. Our form from then untill March must have kept us in the top 3 of the forum charts for months.

Keeping track of points this season to points last season makes it seem like we are only a win or two away from being as good as, points wise at least as last season - however, its highly unlikely (but not impossible I suppose) that we'll take off again in a similar fashion.

So comparing last seasons average start to this season average start to me at least, doesnt indicate that we are anyway close to last season.

Which is what I thought Daves point was going to be. I dont see how we arent going to compare to last season, as it was last season, much of the same players. What shall we compare with 2005? 2000? 1982?

When we play bad we are shit, no doubt. When we play well, we look pretty good - which I guess brings us to the word inconsistent.

i cant really articulate myself very well. it's the people that say 'we did good last season so we'll do the same again this' that annoy me. of course we're going to compare to last season, it's the nearest frame of reference

Its a dave thing, I know!

Too many people called Dave on this forum....

In that case I agree to a point. Missed a massive opportunity last year, but this year isn't dead yet!

Me too I'm afraid

I'm Dave and so's my wife.

I'm Luther Blissett.....

Did anyone ever work out why Luther Blissett was chosen as the name of the project. It was all a bit odd!

This isn't a real opinion, surely? This is a gag, right?

unbelievable.

??

Games I've seen this season:

Brighton - we played shit
Brentford - we played shit
southampton - we played alright
huddersfield - we played good
plymouth - we played shit
bristol rovers - we played well for about half an hour in the second half

But of course this is negative and is ultimatly WRONG ::)

Look deeper than summing the games up in 3 words. You've seen NOTHING, not one single thing from each game that can suggest there is more to come?

Or is 'we are shit this season' going to be it?

We played alright against Plymouth on balance.

Negative = Wrong

Delusion is where its at, play offs here we come...

We play like a bunch of strangers who've met each other on the morning of the game. My main gripe with wilson isn't that he hasn't replaced greer or paynter, it's that we're now well into the season and he doesn't appear to know what his best team is, and what formation to play. I understand some of this is down to injurys/suspensions, but not all of it.

We also lack so much more defensive solidity this season compared to last, which again stems from the system we play and the players that play it. In this case the players have to take a lot of the blame. Only Morrison, pericard and maybe austin can be proud of their efforts this season compared to last.

I'm not saying we're going to be shit all season, of course I'm not. But i'm also a realist who doesn't expect things to magically get better of their own accord. I'm judging my opinion on what i've seen so far this season, which is that unless something changes mid-table mediocrity is the best we're looking at come may

Surely what we're lacking is consistency. We have played well in some games & then virtually the same players have played less well the next game.  If we can get a system that utilises the current player's strengths and abilities, put a few good wins together so that the team's self belief increases then we could still surprise a few people.  Lest we forget we've also had key players out with injuries, International call ups & suspensions and the season is still comparatively early.  If (and it is an if) we can address the errors, get players playing to their strengths consistently then we could still make the frame for promotion or play-offs.

Yes, because there are only those two points of view. It's the failure to be able to take on board more nuanced points of view and simply characterising everything in the most simplistic of terms that annoys people. And frankly makes those who post such as this look a bit simple

Point out where I've said such.

Something that is constructive and informative would be more than welcome.

Instead it's that same old drivel repeated ad finitum by the same old people. The fickleness is also a fucking joke.

"We haven't replaced Greer" blah blah blah. What the fuck was the "42 reasons morrison is better than Greer" thread about.

I'm not being argumentative Dave, I just wonder why you bother going if you think it's been so shit. I can't understand the negativity, or if you feel so negative why do you bother turning up each saturday. I just don't get it.

Am I frustrated we're not top six? Yes. But there are reason, and I'm realistic.

So we haven't replaced Paynter and Greer - I'm so tired of this argument. You think Wilson isn't trying?! Every manager in the league, in the other leagues wants a 30-goal a season striker, a solid defender with captain material. What do think wilson and shirtliff spent most of their time doing? There simply aren't these players out there, or they don't want to join us.

This argument has to end. We haven't replaced them so we deal with what we have. Have they been as consistent? No. But we've had new players, new systems, injuries, suspensions.

Some people moan we're changing things too much. Are these the same people who moaned we only had one system last season, no alternative, the same 11 players?

Some people will never be happy.

I've seen enough this season to think we'll be alright. We've played very well at times, shit in others - so have most teams in this league. At some stage we'll have a purple patch, I'm sure. Last season was incredible, cherish it. At times we'll match those highs, others we won't. But I believe manager and players are doing eveything to match those highs - that's what everyone is working towards.

You take the good with the bad.

Life's too short.

Ignoring the main point of your post -  but is Wilson actively trying to get a goal scorer and defender in? I assumed we will continue with what we have (unless injuries force the hand).

I would imagine it's what he wanted all summer and still wants now. He's not an idiot. But as we know with wilson, he's not going to bring in any old shit. We only see the players he signs, not the many he speaks to who turn us down.

come on, do you honestly think he sits there after training and doesn't identify and speak to potential targets?

He know what's missing, but getting it isn't easy. Just ask every manager in league football.

Of course, because i'm not cock-a-hoop with things I shouldn't bother turning up. Terrific

ha, I thought his post was aimed at me.

Bloody Dave and his stupid name. Can we start calling him ginger dave to avoid confusion because you know, he's ginger and stuff.

Why don't you change yours back to DV?

Good post Juddie..........but it is very argumentative!
I like Dave....he says what a lot of fans are thinking if in a very angry way...and for me why the TEF can be very compelling at times.

It's not that I disagree with what the Dave's are saying, I just don't seem to be that worried about it. Like I've already said, I've seen enough to suggest that we'll keep within touching distance. Just look at the other teams dropping points too.. I think that's going to be the trend this season and one or two astute signings will really sort us out.

I'm not saying that Dave, and it wasn't supposed to come across as argumentative leefer, but there seems to be some real negativity around this season and I just don't get it. Last season was incredible, one of the best since I've followed Town, and the same thing could happen again. In some areas the squad is far stronger, in others weaker, so it's inevitable there will be some inconsistency. When we've been good we've been very good, when we've been bad it's been because we're inconsistent, which is down to wilson trying to find a way of making the team as hard to beat as last season, and as dangerous going forward while without one half of a potent partnership.

For some it justs seems to be so black and white. We lose we're shit, we win we're going up. Just enjoy the highs and lows and see what happens. We're not strong enough to expect to be at the top - we haven't spent like udders and we're not as big as saints.

It's not as those the players/manager/board want to be in the bottom half!! They're trying FFS!

Just frustrates me - our fans are fickle fuckers.

Fuckle Fickers............know you wasn't Juddie ;D

How long do we go on this season being optimistic because of last season?

I'm not optimistic because of last season. I'm optimistic because of what we can do going forward THIS SEASON. Once we sort the back out and hopefully secure Ritchie at least until the end of the season then we've got a lot to look forward to come New Years.

If we can play more often like we did against huddersfield and for 30 minutes against bristol rovers then yes, I can see us being up there. However, that leaves a lot more times i've seen us where we've looked mid-table fodder. The way I see it i'm just backing the favourite.

I don't doubt for one minute wilson and fitton are doing their damndest to improve us, but so far this season it hasn't worked - 16th in the table tells you that - and in most years, for most football clubs you tend to base future judgement on past performance. I'd love to share the same faith and opimism as everyone else, but i'm just looking at it logically

Spot on Dave. So far, our mid table performances have been more frequent than our play-off ones.

Yeah, but we went on a run last season. So it could happen again this season.

Oh Dave your sarcasm and cynacism put a great big smile on my face. 2 results drastically change the face of this league and if we still languising in the bottom half come new years, I'm going to keep my sunny disposition if it's all the same to you.

do whatever the fuck you like mate :)

I think thus far its disappointment rather than sustained negativity. Having gone so close last season we wanted to kick on and get promoted this season. History should have taught us otherwise!

Of course this season is far from dead yet. Its also interesting to note fancied teams Southampton and Charlton are performing similarly to us. And in the Championship Leicester and Forest were playoff semi finalists and are having a bad time of it this year. We are not unique in that regard.

I wouldn't say I'm optimistic because of last season, I'd say I'm optimistic because teams historically tend to stat sluggishly after failing in a play-off final and get better (and like batch says, we're not the only ones), but I also believe I've seen enough this season in glimpses to suggest we can have another good season.

The only difference is consistency, and that's because Wilson hasn't found a formula that works yet. If Ritchie stays he could play the role Ward played last season, then it's a case of one of the strikers stepping up and us sorting it out at the back.

We're not far away IMO. And even if this season is mid-table, then with the squad we have and the lessons we might learn learn, we'll have a strong base to be even better next year.

Not necessarily true Juddie, because we'll likely lose key players such as Austin and Cuthbert and then the whole rebuilding starts again.

That's the biggest concern. If we don't at least hit the same heights as last season, we will lose those 2 and more.

I accept that, but even if we lost two this summer the squad - as a base - would still shit all over what we had under Malpas/sturrock. Wilson is always building and he has shown he can get good players consistently. First Dougie/Greer/Lucas, then Prutton/Ferry and his loan players have been good as well. Ward/Darby and co were ace, and Ritchie and Ball are now looking good, too. After the summer of 2009 we have a base of decent players regardless of whether we lose one or two each summer.

Okay, so he hasn't replaced Paynter and Greer... Greer was a bombshell dropped just b4 the season started and didn't give him much time to deal with - captains are hard to come by, while Dossevi and Pericard could have done what austin did last year - we didn't know austin or paynter were gonna score loads and wilson probably saw enough in the other two to think he'd be ok.

It's a fine line between success and failure. Wilson isn't far from beng where he wants to be, he's just been unlucky with injuries and having to change things here and there.

I bet you if anyone is frustrated with things at the mo, it's wilson...

of course wilson is frustrated,it's not going to plan.
he's been unlucky with the signings not pulling up trees but that's the way it goes.
he signed them,and he picks the formation.

Has shit been upgraded in language terms?  Mid table = average I would have thought.

Last season we had a worse attack, and conceeded close to the same amount.  We had a few more points but lost a couple of the next games.  We were lacking firepower and had a bad habit of conceeding goals (remember those debates about the last 10 mins).  I think it's fair to say we started "ok" but not showing we'd maintain a consistent attack on the very top spots.  I think it's fair to say this season we can't say whether we'll get the impetus to match that run, so there is a fair chance mid table may be the limit if the inconsistency continues.

None of that harks at being "shit", certainly not shit in a way that excludes the option of someone being non plussed by the season so far.