Thetownend.com

Just got back (too my computer) from the San Siro. What a fantastic stadium that is. Mind you,, my ticket cost €235 (face value!) so it ought to be good.

Just a shame they were playing ManUre, rather than Inter.

and what the hell was Carrick sent off for? It haopened right in front of me and I haven't got a  clue.

Kicking the ball away.

I went to the San Siro in April 2000 to see Inter play Reggiana (sp) and it cost me about £7.  ???

Wokingham RED, who were you supporting?

My ex-girlfriend who used to live in Milan was showing me some old photos once and pulled out a load of her watching Milan. I commented on how ace the photos were, she was completely indifferent and just shrugged explaining she didn't like football... I'd love to watch a match there. It's probably my favourite stadium.

I did enjoy the experience Bazza. You walk about a mile from the metro to the stadium, and it just appears into view, with its "cylinder" walkways that makes it stand out from other grounds.

cracking ground been there twice, looks so impressive when you walk up to it, its like a spaceship.

It's ace. We went for the last home game of the season a few years back (v Roma) and whilst all the 'normal' fans got a pat down on the way in, the hardcore Ultras were being waved in with massive fireworks under their arms.

I was hoping this was about a new stadium for you lot.

The San Siro is a great stadium, but the only thing that lets it down and a lot of the other Italian stadia is that they are all (or mostly all) owned by the local councils, and therefore the grounds don't get much money spent on them in terms of facilities, CCTV... Where as over here, most clubs own their ground and it's in their best interest to putting money into it and reep the profits from doing so.

Is there anything in the pipeline regarding a move from the County Ground?

It looks like we are staying where we are but the ground is going to be redeveloped because of the good location it's in,IE train station,town centre etc..

I think the problem is we haven't got a rubbish tip to build one on  ;)

:soapy tit wank: Can't argue with that. I'd have prefered we redeveloped Elm Park, as many of us do.

If you guys are going to build on the County Ground, I think it's the best option. It's your home. You lose that sense of belonging when you move. I still don't overly like the pastic bowl we play in, but without it our attendances wouldn't have grown as they have.

An example of that is when we were bouncing about in what is now League 1, we were averaging 15,000 and hitting a few 20,000's when the bigger games against the likes of Bristol City/Rovers, Brighton, Stoke, Wigan... came to play.

The same will happen to Swindon. As much as I hate the so called friendly family atmospheres created these days, it does add bums on seats with the home comforts of a nice stand, view, hot dogs and chips at your seat with a coke... (I fecking hate seeing this btw!) It's fecking football, not the theatre. Stand and sing, don't sit and eat!!

But that's the game of today - sadly.

The stadium development will do your club the world of good. Just don't settle for 3 stands.

L :soapy tit wank: L

I don't mind the Madejski as a stadium.  I was there quite recently for a London Irish game and remember thinking that even after 10+ years it still looked quite smart.  There are also a few nice touches there like the Maurice Evans plaque that establishes a link with the Elm Park days.  My only problem with the Madejski is its location...in a pretty soulless part of Reading that really does nothing for me at all.

We went to the Hobgoblin in the centre of Reading before the game (cracking little pub, if anyone is in the area).  Good day out, but I think I prefer being able to walk from the station to the pub to the ground and back again without having to resort to buses & taxis etc.

excuse me but what season did you average 15,000 in league 1?!?! closer to 5,000.

KoT - there was a recent thread covering this.  Take a read from here...

http://thetownend.com/index.php/topic,37373.msg780039.html#msg780039

Look it up. The promotion season from Division 2/League 1 I believe was higher than that as well.

As for your poor fishing attempt with 5000; I've watched us since 93 and our averages were never that low in that time. Years previous, sure.

Someone posted a link up on our forum, I'll try and find it, but it shows a steady increase in our attendances from 99/00 to the present, where you'll see there's a hardcore home attendance of around 14k (home support), and then dependant on the away attendance, the gates fluctuate between 15-19k.

This is a bad season for us and we're still heading for 16k average. You're in play-off contention and averaging what, sorry? If you want to mock, always be prepared to be mocked.

PS - find a site with out attendances from 2000 to the present.

oh no king isnt good at reading Ride On Fatbury's Lovestick soapy tit wank

Im off to see Hamburger SV this weekend, cant wait gonna be ace!

Agreed. The repetative bowl design is tiresome and boring now, but at least the Madejski has a unique design in the way it links the stands, rather than it being just round. A small thing, but you look at Coventry, Leicester, Cardiff, MK, Southampton... boring.

Also agree entirely about the stadium in a crap location. Hence my comment in support of you redeveloping TCG. Older grounds still have a soul, charachter, spirit. Also the four stand design, and not looking like lego (Wigan) is a dying breed now. I'm looking forward to seeing a smartened up CG.

King of Tonga

Go to www.royals.org ---> Previous Seasons, and knock yourself out.

All i can remember is going to elm park loads in the eighties and it always being half empty.

But maybe i had arrived late and most of your lot had already run away.

 :D

The decade we almost went bust when the then chairman, and a corrupt chairman, tried to create Thames Valley Royals by mergind Reading and Oxford and building a stadium in Didcot.

As I said earlier, new stadiums make football family friendly, and although I don't find that appealing as it has ruining much of the atmoshere you used to get at games, it does bring in new supporters.

You'd do well to try and justify your poor attendances this season? The football you're playing and a sniff of promotion, you should be getting 13,000's at the very least!

For what's his face, see - http://www.european-football-statistics.co.uk/attnclub/read.htm

Apart from the near relegation under Tommy Burns (RIP) when we were in the now League 1, attendances steadily increased ever since.

Silly arguement really when you can't even fill a 15k capacity in your position.  ::)

And the above answer is why i fucking hate Reading.

We have 7,000 proper fans.

Not 20,000 plastic day trippers.

I wonder how your gates will fare when you get relegated this season?

This is the decade we nearly went bust too. We have the 7th highest average in a division which has norwich leeds and charlton in. We still have rovers and norwich to come so i can see our season average attendance being about the 9000 mark. Look down the average attendances in this division we are more than holding our own.

Plus Readings support was always traditionally shit. You know it, we all know it. You are a small club that got lucky. Your day in the sun has come and gone and it wont be long before your wallowing in the lower leagues playing in a half empty stadium whilst all your daytrippers have fucked off back to chelsea. Milk it while you can.

Fucking Reading. Wankers.

The problem we have is a lot of the fans that were here back in the glory days of the early 90s have now drifted away and lost interest through poor management and ownership and not to mention for the best oart poor football. The club built a little bit of a bad rep around the town and only now is it starting to turn around in the other direction. A new CG will increase crowds for sure as will CCC football. The same happened for you. You may have a decent average gate now but if you continue to slide (going down this season would be a start to that) crowds and interest will soon drop. It'll be interesting to see what you would get in mid table L1.

reading progressed really well in a short time.this would have attracted many new fans and they have seemed to keep hold of most of them.if that lasts only time will tell.

Well you were both a lot more polite than me :)

Ha true. I guess if he was looking for a bite he failed.

Summed it up quite nicley!

I actually know a fair few who used to watch us, but now watch Reading. I dont talk to them anymore as a rule, well not without lots of laughing and piss taking.

 :soapy tit wank:

How does that sum it up nicely? Our support in 94 eclipses your current support now, let alone the fact that our attendances have improved consistantly ever since.

Largely it comes down to a nice ground, yes, but also the catchment area. Before 2 seasons in the Premiership, we were still getting 18,000 average ish and climbing.

In the Premiership we sold out to home fans every week, so much so we have planning permission to increase to 38,000. The demand is there, albeit in the top flight when everyone gets the fair weather fans.

Our support will go up, and yes it will go down. But the hardcore 14,000 - 15,000 is there and has been the case for almost 10 years now. They're not likely to go anywhere.

Now, to a more lolz worthy point - You getting (maybe) 9000 averages this season and it being good for that league. Just   :soapy tit wank:

Sorry, but you knock us and ethe excuse we have fairweathers, yet in League 1 when we were promoted as runners up, our average attendance was about 15000, with a fair few 18000's and a couple 20,000's too.

9000 you say?  :soapy tit wank:

* for the record, I've never gone fishing on here. But if you're going to flirt with me...  ;)

My Reading supporting brother (a real fan who spent most of the seventies and eighties watching cack at Elm Park) hasn't been since the move. Not that he has stopped supporting Reading, he just doesn't see it as the same thing.

So you're wrong and plastic.

Am I?

I've missed only a handful of home games since I started watching Reading in 93 (Old 2nd Division, and Champions that season)

I moved to Leeds for 4 years back in 04, and I still drove down for every home game bar one. Sometimes twice a week, there and back the same day.

How on earth am I plastic?

Lots of love,
Boobies x

The smell of polythene?

I'd like to see Reading's attendances at Elm Park before they moved. That would interesting. When you left EP am I right in saying you were at the same level you are now?

We moved into the Madstad in League 1 (then Div2).

Attendances around the final season at Elm Park was 9676 and then the first season at the Madejski (a very bad season) saw an increase to 11,262.

So basically your crowds at EP were not much better than our current ones at the same level?

The move to the new stadium, as said, brings with it families and new fans who like dry new surroundings. Also, from 2000, we were always chasing a promotion, right up until this season.

That's where the continuity of growth in attendances comes from, and many of the then new fans, stay.

Previous comment about the 80's is spot on, we averages up and down 5-6000 for most of the decade. But it was also an awful decade for Reading Football Club.

Many are also mistaken when they think John Madejski has thrown his wealth at the club. He hasn't. We have had numerous interest free loans from him, and this last year and a bit he has been openly cashing them in to balance the books and bring the debt back under control since relegation from the money league.

He bought the stadium, but again the football club have paid for that, or are paying for it.

He's just a shrewd business man. It's frustrating at times, but he runs the club in the right manner, and you can see in the success we had from 2000 to 2009 that building piece by piece was the right way to do it, and now we find ourselves doing it all over again.

Income from sponsorship, leasing the stadium to London Irish, attendances... means we usually make one 'big' signing a summer, and a few clever buys also. That's been our way for 10 years and will remain so until a new buyer comes in, wether that's for the better or now we shall see, but it isn't far off.

I sincerley hope you get promoted this season. It'll be good for your club, your fans and finances. And if it hurries the redevelopment of TCG then all the better. It will stand you in good stead when it happens.

Almost 13 years ago, yes.

Swindons average attendances

1996 10,040
 
1995 9,408

1994  15,011

1993 10,576

1992 9,654

1991 9,613
 
1990  9,444

1989  8,645
 
1988  9,542
 
Readings average attendances:

1996  8,917

1995  9,350

1994  6,951

1993  4,781

1992  3,858

1991   4,073

1990   4,076

1989  5,106

1988  6,945

now fuck off back to stamford bridge

I'm not bothered to be honest. I would rather we played great football, got the gate up because of it and failed in the play offs every year. Redevelopment is a meh. I love our ground as it is. After the Leeds match experience I want to be able to buy a beer easily in the County Ground Hotel.

Parochial? Yep. Definitely.

:D

Exactly the same sort of thing is happening for us now. You talk about the 80s being an awful decade for Reading well the naughties was certainly one for us. We're just 20 years behind you in that respect.

http://www.european-football-statistics.co.uk/attnclub/read.htm


Season '93 and '94

Finishing 8th and 1st in League 1

Averages of 4,700 and 6,900.

So, it would appear that we are somewhere between those two season.

So based on that in your old school ground, non family firendly atmosphere if you were in our position your average
would be 5,800.

Run run run run reading






Premiership? That was soooo 90s
Been there, got the T Shirt.
Reading FC will always be a poxy club, whether it be a shit club playing at Elm Park or a Plastic club playing in a lego ground on a tip near the M4, where the fans come from wonderful settlements, like Slough, to watch a decent standard of football (Away Clubs now).
Swindon Town however, are a proper community football club. We have real hardcore fans.

cut the fella some slack. he aint plastic and is basicly sticking up for his team like any of us would.
i for one respect reading for what they did, and i look at them in hope of doing the same.
for all the tit for tat put downs we really aint far apart.

I'm so hardcore, I pay on the day even though I have a season ticket

But that's just your Manchester Road floozie, Si..?

Agreed....its been an incredible turnaround for Reading FC....City,Rovers,Swindon,Oxford Reading...they used to be the minnows..the laughing stock...at present they are the biggest of the five...hate to say it.
We can get there if the local authority show inatiative and back Fitton and co...its about time they started backing the club abit more...get the youngsters in for free etc.
Swindon fans like us are loyal but more needs to be done to bring in the thousands that have never been to see the Town ever play.

Im not cutting him any slack, until madjeski Reading were fuck all. Plus hes come on to  a rivals message board he deserves whatever he gets.

I was enjoying it - then KOT posted the attendances and the boob disappeared.

The Reading experience and reaction to success, is what Andrew Fitton, the rest of the board and Nick Watkins, would be looking at to achieve with Swindon. The demographics are the same big towns with no significant football competition nearby and that is a huge potential (there are 193,000 people living in the Swindon Council area).

We almost had our success late 80's and early 90's a bit too soon in that we weren't really set up for the Premier League as football took off in the mid 1990's we were coming off the peak and went downhill rapidly. The antagonism around McMahon and Hunt also put off the support for a long time. Had we got in the Premier in say 2003 instead of 1993 we may well have gained that long term increase in the supporter base.

Reading, whether we like it or not, we're well set up for getting in the Prem, couple of misses in the play offs and then won the Championship so built the momentum in the supporter base. We haven't really done that yet, despite the season ticket offers and various offers, wonder what the take up on the 2 for £25 will be. Sure our gates will pick up about the 10k mark for the Rovers and Norwich games but we need to get the belief going in the local population and sustain the success over a longer period. Swindon is a big place and if we can tap into the locals then we could get the 25,000 if we hit the big time Prem again. Maybe a Wembley play off might be the trigger to get more in on a regular/perm basis.

Fond memories of Elm Park, we always did quite well there most of the time

Swindon Borough Council have absolutely zero remit when it comes to a private business like STFC. Sorry.

I don't buy that, the council do plenty of things to help private businesses - reducing town centre car parking charges to encourage shoppers for example. They use it as an excuse for doing nothing when I'm sure there are things they could do to help. Plus the club does get involved in community projects which is giving something back.

Surely the real issue is that the club has been a joke for a long time, maybe things have changed a bit now?

the council have been a joke more like.

Maybe there's a bit of an opportunity with the state of public finances for the board to try and buy the freehold to the County Ground. A Conservative council are probably more open to flogging off a few assets to kick off some of the town centre redevelopment. Fitton and Co might view a few million investment as an opportunity as it gives them a huge asset to secure their investment or loans against.

If the Goddard covenant is still seen as a problem, maybe a 50/50 ownership of the ground with the council and some long term tie into with community sports facilities at the CG. A 50/50 ground partnership with the council would also reduce the risk of a Kassam situation.

We can only hope

We can only hope

I'm not aware of the council ever being opposed to selling the freehold back to the club. They've just refused to sell it for peanuts and want the true market value - which would be a lot of money if the land was redeveloped (as part of the ground redevelopment, or if the club moved to a new ground).

Uh - they get more revenue because of the increased number of tickets sold to more shoppers. Seriously, SBC don't give a shit about any businesses. If they did they would abolish car park charges and make the buses in to town free (and subsidised by council tax), cut the business rate to ribbons and offer subsidies to new start ups. But none of that is going to happen as they are fucked up the arse by the minimal contribution back from Central Government.


They don't make any excuses. They are just not involved and don't need to be. Quote me an Adver article where they have said this.


All I am aware of is that there might be some positive attitude from SBC on either selling the ground back to the club or some sort of partnering arrangement on that side of things because our new board are reasonable business men rather than the unrealistic fucktards who we used to have who hadn't got a clue.

Excellent post and agree totally, with the exception of Archie Lovell running rings around McMahon for his hattrick and the Jan Arga Fjorotff (sp?) arms out celebration with full cheeky grin   :soapy tit wank:

Good post.

So are you not following the conversation?

I've said already the 80's were poor for us, as we the times the club were going through, and it picked up slowly with the change of chairman.

The move to the Madejski made all the differece. If you took 5 minutes to actually read the thread, you'd see why they picked up (Families started to attend, nicer facilities etc)

Now post up your attendances and ours from 1998 to the present day please? Oh.

Show us your (.)Boobies(.)

Erm, he posted mainly the 90's me old polystyrene.

Talk Talk are you trying to tell me that the years 1990, 1991, 1992, 1993, 1994, 1995 and 1996 didn't take place during the 1980's?

Pfft, don't believe it for a second :)

You sound fit, what you wearing?

Denim.

http://thetownend.com/index.php/topic,37722.0.html (http://thetownend.com/index.php/topic,37722.0.html)

And as said, the move to the Madejski was a big factor in consistant growth in attendances. We moved into the Madstad 12 years ago (1998 as you clearly can't do numbers, my old polystyrene)

So, if you want to go down this route, please post up yours and our attendances from 1998 to 2009.

Have you got plastic titties?

Whatever you say about the reading's fans being plastic,It's something i would like to see here if it generates the cash to be able to do what reading have done like build an academy etc,so they can bring young talent through.

We need the support to keep the club stable,whether it's plastic or not we all know times have changed and football has changed.Im afraid some of the old school can't accept that tho.Im kind of envious of what reading has done even tho it kills me to say that,and i hope one day we can achieve what they have done.

Im afraid the days of the true hardcore fan's keeping the clubs alive are dead along with a lot of the old traditional grounds.

So in reality like it or not plastic fans are needed.

Elm park was a shithole as was the manor but i have to say i loved going to both in the good old day's.

I have  never doubted that since madjeski ploughed in his millions, loads of fans came out of the woodwork, what i was stating was until your new stadium you always had smaller crowds than us. ALWAYS. Historically you're tin pot.

Hopefully, when we come to redevelop the ground we do keep some of the 'character' and history of the current CG. It would be great to think we could still look on the pitch and think that it's the same pitch, location where all the legends of the past paid. This would keep the memories of the hard core loyals but they're down to the 6500 we get for the lower teams in the league at the moment.

Another, advantage of staying at the CG is if we redevelop piecemeal we can gradually ramp up the capacity to match the support we're getting or league we are in, I'm sure for the Leeds game we could have sold a another 1,000 to 1,500 tickerts at least. A new Statton Bank & Townend first and then the Arkells and DRS at a later stage. The disadvantage is you lose the 'Big Bank' that Reading had when they moved (although the gate dropped by about 4 or 5000 the 2nd home game after they moved to the Madejski)

The one thing I suppose is true, build a bigger more comfortable ground and the attendance will go up. It happened at Reading and it happened at Southampton. I do laugh at the arrogance that comes with some "fans" who easily forget the old days, and suddenly think they are a massive club..........you just have a bigger ground than you had before. :bye:

Again, a terrific post.

That's the difference, it's not that any new fans should be labelled plastic, the game has just changed and it's like going to the theatre now. I hate it, many do, but that's football today. Nice shiny stadium, nice facilities, food and drink at your seat..

With new grounds comes new fans. People that were put off by the rough and tumble of what was terracing, and rusty roofs now bring their kids to games. So yes, in one respect we (like everyone) had some plastics as you like to call them, but the attendances have continued to grow from 2000 and to me that says they aren't actually plastic. Plastic for me is fair weather support, and to an extent, we all have that.

As previously said, your crowds should top 10000 soon. But where have they been this last few years? Is that plastic? Fickle? Fair weather?

What ever it is, every club has them!

If being a new fan makes you plastic, then we were all plastic at some point.

I loved Elm Park, it was a shit hole, but it was our shit hole. Like you and TCG  ;)

Thankfully your club seems to be going in the right direction again, and hopefully the redevelopment at your place will spearhead brighter days for your club and once again a stint in the Premiership.

Growing attendances is exciting and playing in a packed out ground is better than playing in a half full one. BUT if I had the choice between staying an old style ground such as the CG with a rowdier atmosphere and sitting down in a brand new stadium with a more sanitised vibe as (.) boobies (.) describes I would choose the old style ground.

Thankfully as some one said the coice is not that clear cut and hopefully we can have our cake and eat it by redeveloping the CG bit by bit, keeping the great location and the old school atmosphere AND increasing the capacity and attendances.  :D :D :D

So, let me get this straight.

Reading, got a new stadium spent a fair bit of money improving their team and then their crowds went up.

Fuck me, astounding that is.

Get relegated, go into administration, spend best part of 10 years in this division and then see what attendances you get :)

On the flip side, we'll get a new stadium, get promoted and see what crowds we can pull in!

I am completely and utterly indifferent to Reading. It's like having a rivalry with Eurodisney.

nah mate we're mates with them cos were twinned or something

It's been both club and council to be fair Arriba. If you saw the last regimes redevelopment plans (and i'm sure you did like many others) they were a total joke. There was no way any council would pass them. I do agree that they haven't really supported the club in recent years though. Some councillers couldn't give a shit about STFC. Hopefully it looks like it may be starting to become water under the bridge. After all there's one thing that could at least kick start this pipe dream of town centre regeneration and that's a new CG.

michael wills has made some pretty strong allegations about the current swindon council.Bluh dodged the issue from the article in the adver.
not stfc related though

blurgh is a cunt mate

Are you on a bet to use the word 'mate' in every post or something, bruv?

Nah mate. just a subconcious way to try and lessen the royston vasey style hostility to someone new

Cunt.

you're a witty one mate.

Following from BS's question - Why do say mate to everyone? From your posts (and replies from other people to your posts) so far it's pretty obvious nobody wants to be your 'mate'.

 :)

Thank you, that means a lot.

i think i answered didnt i mr reading comprehension

I like you harold we should bum.

i call strangers mate quite often.or geezer,fella,chap,etc,etc.

cheers lads. means a lot

I think that our home capacity is only about 11400 so we aint doing bad on attendance

What's capacity got to do with it?