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... what with Federer, it's amazing how in some sports where alot comes down to biomechanics and technique, how can one man be so so far ahead of anyone else?

Which in turn got me wondering who people on here think was clearly the greatest in their sport, a genuinely undisputed no 1?

The only 3 I can think of out there currently would be Usian Bolt, Federer and Tiger Woods; maybe Bradman when he was cricketing, although I suppose it's harder to distinguish in a team sport. I'm half tempted to say Phil Taylor and Ronnie O'Sullivan but they're not really sports.

Discuss.

O'Sullivan self destructs too regularly to be considered dominant anyway, miles ahead on his day but not regularly enough.

Valentino Rossi?

If Golf is a sport then I don't see why Snooker and Darts shouldn't be.

Are you on about the sport at this current time Dave?

If so,

Kobe Bryant

Michael Phelps,although he was caught with a bong it wasn't an enhancing drug,the guy is a machine.

i agree.so taylor has to get a shout

Cos it's outdoors and actually involves some physical exertion

From a few years ago (and maybe again soon) Michael Schumacher.

Weather its a sport or not, you have to admire Phil Taylor for being that bloody good at it, must take some skill.

Lewis Hamilton. Schumacher definitely wasn't one. Snooker and darts are sports, I don'e see any real reason why they wouldn't be.

Why not? He won the World championships of anyone (7)

Are you having a laugh?  Hamilton is nowhere near a true number one, dominant in Formula One.  He's a great driver, and won his Championship well, but last year admittedly in a poor car he wasn't competitive.  I wouldn't even say Hamilton is the best driver in Formula One...  In Formula One, it'd have to be Schumacher, although I'm dubious as to whether motor-racing is really relevant to a thread on dominance, as too much of it is down to the machinary at the driver's disposal.

I think you must be joking. Hamilton is easily the best driver in Formula One at the moment, it's not even at all close. No-one would have been competitive in his car last year but he still won races in it which is incredibly impressive. He didn't even have the best car the season he won the championship, which Schumacher always did.

In a thread about undisputed number ones I cannot believe 12 posts have been made without mentioning Muhammed Ali ???

Probably because it's been pretty much about current Champions bar the Schumacher debate. Right now, I reckon Audley Harrison might scrape a draw against Ali.

Well, Don Bradman was mentioned in the oiriginal post so that did rather sugges it was from all eras.

Hamilton is far too early in his sports career to be considered a great, and Formula One drivers are very difficult to compare...  they should just all bung them in the Lacetti and whoever gets the quickest lap is crowned world champion...  but then Martin Brundle would harp on about changing wind conditions or tyre wear.

Georgie Best has got to be another contender surely?  Especially given his off-the-field antics.

the hamilton shout is laughable

O'Sullivan clearly shows all the talent to be considered in the same class as Woods and Federer, but like someone else mentioned, mentally he appears to have all the strength of wet 1 ply tissue, so rules himself out.

Schumacher as well, he clearly owned the sport for years and was undisputed number 1.

I doubt anyone will mention him, but i will because my Dad used to talk about him alot when i was younger, Tomba la Bomba (Alberto Tomba). He was a god.

ugh. Schumacher was not undisputed number one when in the sport. I don't think he was better than Hakkinen or Alonso, obviously not Senna and probably not Button and saying the Hamilton shout is laughable is so stupid, he may not have been in the sport long but it's already obvious he is going to be an all time great, just wait and see.

ifs, buts, maybes.he by no means dominates his sport, so his mention is a joke.

Wayne Rooney!

How does he not dominate the sport? He has been in it 3 years and already won the championship once, came close a second time and been incredibly impressive last season in a terrible car. Before that he won Formula A, Formula 3, Formula Renault and GP2. He has been dominant in every form of motor racing he's ever been in. We have an incredibly talented English driver who looks capable of being the greatest ever and people don't even realise it. Such a shame.

Schumacher didn't win the title every year either, it's not possible unless you have the best car every year, you only have to compare Hamilton's record to his team-mate last year to see just how well he really did.

A worthwhile shout. I'm one of his biggest fans, but wouldn't say he is dominating the sport. Yes he's won plenty of world championships, but there's always been someone else running him close. He's undoubtedly a gifted motorcyclist and a complete mentalist to go with it, but he's done very well in a sport where winning has a lot to do with the machinery you're given.

John McGuinness would be my suggestion for his domination of TT racing.

I think you answered you're own question.

1 Championship win in 3 seasons isnt dominant.

O'Sullivan is very talented, but he's to darts what Gascoigne was to football.  If he better knew how to manage his emotions and apply his talent, he would be right up there with Davis and Hendry.  But he doesn't, and he's not.

And darts is a game, not a sport.

If you think that, you don't understand formula one. Senna, the greatest up till now, only won 3 championships in 11 seasons too. It does not mean he wasn't dominant.

but this is about undisputed no1s in their sport.hamilton is arguably the best driver but it's not cut and dried.

I really think it is. I don't even know who else you could argue for being the best.
Alonso? Hamilton beat him in the same car, in his first season in the sport. Button? Has has too many average seasons and not won enough races, even if not entirely his fault. Schumacher? He cannot have a claim to be the best when he's not raced for 4 years. Massa? Hamilton beat him in an inferior car and he doesn't look anything special unless he has the best car. Who else? I don't see how he can be anything other than the undisputed number one.

 button would argue he's better i reckon.
we will find out soon enough.

Do you seriously believe that the Benetton that he won the championship in was the best car, if you do you are deluded.

And don't forget that when he went to Ferrari they were a joke, and it was him that developed the car into the best.

There is no doubt that at the end of his time in F1 that Schumacher was the dominant force, and for all his achievements in motor sport Hamilton hasn't (yet) been that dominant.

As much as I like Button, I think he's almost the only one who would. Although he's had some awful cars, he's not really outshone his team-mates every season. It will be interesting to see how he does this season but I can't see him finishing ahead of Hamilton. It will be a great achievement if he does though.

If darts and snooker are sports, so's shove ha'penny and Aunt Sally. We should lobby for Aunt Sally to be included in the 2012 Olympics, to be competed between teams of bearded men with bells strapped to their knees

In 1994 he should have been disqualified anyway, so I wouldn't even consider that a real win. 1995 is about the only season you could argue he didn't have the best car but the Benetton was actually very good that year and designed to suit Schumacher's driving style, with the best engine and his car was very reliable so even then there wasn't much in it.

Do you seriously think it was Schumacher who developed Ferrari into the best team and nothing to do with their billion pound budget which dwarfed all the other teams? That is laughable.

Of course there was doubt and Hamilton's certainly been far more dominant in his first three seasons than Schumacher was in his first three, give him some time and you'll see just how good he is.

hehe BWB really really hates Schumacher

Well... BWB, I think the debate shows Hamilton is not universally considered the pinnacle of his sport, regardless of what you and doubtless plenty of others say... so as the starter of the thread I rule him out :)

AP McCoy anyone?

Nope

you cant have a Jockey because its partly(mostly) the Horse.McCoy gets better rides and more rides than other Jockeys.For the same reason you shouldnt include any Car Drivers or Players from team games.

Yeah but he's had to earn getting the good rides, and he certainly doesn't ride for the 2 biggest NH yards either. Of course the horse matters but he's won on some right dogs... he's certainly the man you'd want on a shitty afternoon at Plumpton over Ruby who's always going to be your Saturday man.

And in that case... Kauto Star

Probably because he wasn't even the greatest heavyweight of all time, let alone the greatest boxer.

Oh, and Michael Jordan.

Id say yes to Kauto Star,hes a Horse version of Usain Bolt.

Ferrari had a massive budget before Schumacher, but still had a crap car.

One of the things they lacked was a driver who could feedback the relevant information to the technicians so that they could improve it, and this was one of the things that he was very good at.

This is one reason why I don't think Button is a great, he's quick in a good car, but just useless at developing it. It's no coincidence that as the Brawn developed last year it became better for Barrichello.

As for Lewis, first half of last season apart he has been in one of the two best teams in F1, and in one season he threw away the Championship, and in the second he only just held on by a point, not exactly dominant was it?

As for comaprisons to other drivers first three seasons, how often does a driver get into one of the big teams in their first season in F1, and even if they do they are usually forced to play second fiddle to the teams number 1 driver.

I think this is going to be an interesting year for Lewis, there's no doubting his talent but the new regualtions regarding refueling don't really suit an aggresive driving style. it's more back to the days of Prost when saving your tyres early in the race gave you a chance to pick people off at the end of the race when their's were knackered.

So who was?, in your opinion, which in this case will be wrong.

I'd say Joe Louis.

But it is a highly debatable subject, and the recent crop of "super heavyweights" (including a prime Lewis) would give him, and indeed Ali, fits.

Ferrari started spending a huge amount of money in 1996 when they signed Schumacher for £24m a year and then Ross Brawn and Rory Byrne and also spent a huge amount on their wind tunnel and other staff. That is the reason why they became more competitive and it had fuck all to do with Schumacher. It's absurd to give him the credit for that. He didn't design the car and he didn't pay for it.

Hamilton certainly was dominant, to finish above a team-mate who is the reigning champion in your first season is such a huge achievement, it can't be underestimated. The reason he started with a big team is because his pre F1 record was unmatched by anyone, he earnt that privilege and showed he deserved it by having the best debut season in F1 history. Nobody has come close to matching his achievements since he started in formula one. Some people have said he's not the undisputed number one but they haven't given any realistic alternatives.

I'm not sure his early career (pre-F1) was unmatched by anyone, it was very very good though. Unless you mean early F1 career. But using your own argument he had arguably the best car which he didn't design or develop.

Anyway the reason he signed for a big team was because McLaren had paid for Hamilton to progress through the formula from the age of 13. They had a world champion signed up (Alonso) and took a chance on a rookie along side him. They knew he was good, but I doubt in their wildest dreams (or knighmares) did they think he'd be as competitive.

But to compare his achievements with Schumacher is laughable in the the extreme. He has the potential to be great. But Schumacher has already realised his greatness. Hamilton is but an embryo.

Ed Moses. Pele. Bolt is a good shout. Ali sullied his reputation and was also taken down when he was at his peak.  

Back on topic.

Lance Armstrong dominated the tour for ages.

Its a difficult one. Every decade somebody dominates, Michael Johnson, Pete Sampras, Steve Davis, etc, etc. The general trend is improvement, quicker, stronger, better. Can you compare dominant stars of today from those of say the 70's. Probably not. Sports Science, technology, training methods, professionalism and drugs (I'm thinking of cycling) improves. Man is getting taller and stronger slowly I think.

Probably because there is no UNDISPUTED number 1 at present, however I'd like to see Vettel in the best car.


They finished level on points, race wins & podiums, and if Alonso is believed Lewis was favoured all season by the team. May give some insight into why he was able to match his more illustrious team mate.

Can we not turn this into another thread full of bile about Hamilton vs. Schumacher again. If you want to do that go an ressurect that other thread. Thanks.

booooo

Certainly dominated the Tour, but virtually ignored all Cycling's other big races to do it.

In fact wasn't last season his first time in the Giro?

If you think this is bad, just wait for the first time they shunt each other off the track next season :D.


FWIW, I hope Hamilton beats him anyway

I meant his career before Formula One. Who has a better record pre-F1 then? I'm not sure anyone does. He was in Mclaren's development program but the F1 drive was only an option, if he'd not done so well in F3 and GP2 they wouldn't have signed him. Obviously it's not at all laughable to compare his achievements to Schumacher, that's just silly, he's already been great and will be greater.

Last word in this thread Samdy, promise.

1 WDC , 14 people have more world drivers championships that Hamilton. He's not dominated anything, which is the point of this thread.

Not in their first three seasons. Not dominated anything other than any form of motorsport he's entered in the last 10 years.

the only way to see who is best is to put drivers in identical cars.

Schumacher will never rank with the true sporting greats for me. He was a cheat, would bend every rule he could to breaking point, relied upon being given preferential treatment over his team mates, would happily put lives at risk through his dangerous driving and basically did anything he could to win no matter what the costs or the method.

True sporting greats don't have to resort to any of the stuff that Schumacher did every day of his career. If he carries on next season from where he left off he'll most likely kill someone as he is well past his best but still thinks he is the best - a dangerous combination in an F1 car.

Plus he's a cunt. And German. And a cunt.

Well ferrari etc have had two cars racing in races for years,,,in theory they should both be the same standard....but in F1 its all about the help you get offtrack....pitstops etc that determine whos best....not driving capabilities.

I agree that it would be fairer if they had identical cars but don't think it would ever happen. Totally agree with Jonny72, all true.

It is said that the greatest test of driving in Formula one is during a wet racing.  Admittedly, Hamilton is good in the wet but not a patch Schumacher.  Indeed, Herr Regenmeister is by far and away the greatest talent in the wet which is a true display of driving ability.

Next season will be very interesting, I only hope Schumacher is given a decent car to show that young pup a lesson.  If not, Hamilton will be pipped by Button as Hamilton is too rash and not as good as handling pressure.

How much money would you like to put on this bit?

To be fair Hamilton does make a lot of silly mistakes.

Speak for yourself - this man is getting slower and fatter at an alarming rate :)

Are the other 4 pages dedicated to a formula one dick waving contest?

Probably 2 and 3!

There are a few who were probably 'greater' boxers. Sugar Ray Robinson, Joe Louis, Rocky Marciano, Floyd Patterson, you could make a decent argument for Mike Tyson too.

When did Ronnie start playing darts?

Chris Hoy anyone? and before him Boardman?

I might agree that Marciano is in with a shout. Robinson wasn't a heavyweight was he (I thought Randolph Turpin beat him ?)

No he won titles in the middle divisions - never heavyweight. I misunderstood the question.

Joe Louis' 11 years, 10 months as champion takes some beating for me.

 Wiltshireman Walter George, from Calne, held the world mile record for 30 years, from 1886.

 That'll do for me.

I reckon Bradman, he's so far ahead of anyone else in his sport.  His average is alarming.  The first time I saw it, I thought it was a misprint.  No-one else can compare.  And Maradona and Cryuff are both better than Pele (to just change the sport and make an unrelated point).

To bring the ice hockey slant, wayne gretsky was fucking ridiculous. Watching old games he played in, he was just head and shoulders above the rest, he could do stuff most other players dreamt about.

The current era of hockey is a good one too, sydney crosby (who plays more of a team game) and alexander ovechkin (more of an out-and-out sniper) are the current 'best in the world'.

Then you've got Patrick Roy, a shit hot netminder in his day, and Marty 'pieboy' Brodeur who's still fairly handy and should break a few more goaltending records before he retires.

Leggett how can you get a girl pregnant and like Ice hockey?

:Ride On Fatbury's Lovestick:

mustve given her a good pucking

There is a plaque to him in the town  :)

Interesting thing about boxers is that it's about the last sport where the drug-testing regime is laughable. Pacquio and Mayweather have fallen out over the testing regime. So 'the greatest' there might not be as fair a comparison as in other sports.

Adding some 'minority sports' onto the list, you've got to consider Ben Ainslie and Steve Redgrave.
John Claude Killy and Hermann Maier in downhill skiing.

A statistician thinks Bradman is the best ever, followed by Pele and Ty Cobb:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donald_Bradman#World_sport_context

Don't argue with BWB's.

His opinion is worth more than anyone else's.