Thetownend.com

I'm having a cunt of a time lately with my landline and broadband and need some advice.

My broadband is up and down like fuck. It drops several times a day and often i have shit as fuck speeds, like sometimes as low as 500kbps and not very often above 1mb. If i plug my phone in, it gets worse, so have to remain completely phoneless. I have tried numerous microfilters and several routers. Nothing changes.

My main issue now is that TalkTalk have spent a lot of time trying to help, but have now said i need an engineer. They have gone on to say that if it's the internal wiring in my property i get charged a minimum of £120. If it's tested and found faultless, the same applies. The only way i don't get charged is if the problem is beyond the boundaries of my property.

Now, if o2 fuck up the mobile network i don't pay to repair it, so why do i if it's a phone line? I wonder whether it's a TalkTalk thing because they have to get BT in to fix it, as from what i understand BT OWN all wiring and even the boxes in my house. It's in fact against the law for anyone who's not a BT engineer to touch them aparently. Well if that's the case, why do i pay? They fucking own it?

If i move providers will it change anything? I imagine it wouldn't. Or perhaps moving to the ripoff that is BT would solve it? It seems logical that any provider is going to be using everything the same, therefore nothing changes. Is this right?

So, can i tell them to fuck off if they charge me? Should i move providers? Should i make do and not risk the charges?

I want to smash something because i'm properly frustrated.

I thought if it was your own equipment fault you have to pay, but this means the router etc.

I've had connection issues in 2 houses and both times the fault was on the outside and one was an old house. BT are the ones who impose the charge, so Talk Talk will recharge it to you.

Just make sure you've tried the master socket first.

Forgot to say, I never paid as it was outside issues.

I had similar problems a few years ago. Using the phone would cause the ADSL to disconnect. I tried everything. New router, new filters, changed the internal wiring. Mine turned out to be a problem in one of the junction boxes down the street.

The £120 charge is standard BT charge for any fault caused by your own wiring that they fix. BT's liability ends at the master socket. Anything after that is yours, everything before it (including the master socket itself) is BT's property.

As for troubleshooting, have you tried the quiet line test? Make sure your phone is plugged into the master socket (or preferably the test socket if you have a NT5 faceplate). Dial 17070 and select option 2. Should be completely silent. If there's any kind of hiss/crackle/pops/buzz/anything then it's more than likely there's a fault on the line.

This site is useful: http://www.kitz.co.uk/adsl/connectionprobs.htm

It think that the £120 charge if there's nothing wrong is pretty much the same wherever you go, although might be different on BT themselves.

We're with tesco (both internet and phones) and when our phone line went down at the weekend they said exactly the same thing. I'd already tried two different phones in the test socket so figured we were pretty safe. Our phones actually ended up fixing themselves by monday, I guess it was something to do with the bad weather and it had been fixed through another complaint, they didn't mind us cancelling the engineer.

I really do need to change my internet from Tesco though, I think it's still the same 512kbp shit that I set my mum up with when I was at uni. I'm not really much of a speed freak, pretty patient with downloads and stuff, but it would be nice to be able to reliably stream iPlayer and 4OD.

Sorry I would have posted that straight away but the TEF Spazzed. Sort it out barry.

i had problems with o2, massive latency and slow speeds during peak times. they insisted i need to get an engineer to investigate the line.

i changed ISP and have had no problems since.

Thanks everyone, that clarifies everything. I did manage a small amount of research and discovered what you lot said about the charges thing. I think i may just find an Open Reach engineer on the street and offer him £50 to check it out.

@Sam, the master socket thing has always been an issue for me because i can't tell where the line comes in and all my sockets are identical. (He says about to contradict himself.) I did achieve a slightly higher connection speed on one and it has a strange coaxial looking plate below it, so will try the silent test on that. I presume i need my router disconnected when i try that?

The Tef spazzed out Ben because i'm now hosting it from my laptop, so you can blame TalkTalk.

http://www.wppltd.demon.co.uk/WPP/Wiring/UK_telephone/uk_telephone.html

I'm such a fucking spanner. I remember looking at a picture like that a while back (with the capacitor thing on the inside) but remembered it looking like an NT5 socket thing, so somehow completely overlooked the actual master socket. Obviously i do have one and it was/is the one i'm using. :D

And you've tried removing the front plate and sticking the router straight into the socket behind it (if there is one)?

Also what is call quality like on phone calls. Crackly or normal/good (may not be indicative of fault ))

--

Generally if the master NT5 socket behind the faceplate still gives poor results it is likely to be a BT problem as their line terminates here. But it can be a bit of a  grey area when a third party gets involved (like talk talk) as to what is chargeable these days.

That said BT openreach fixed my fault and replaced my very old master socket FOC, as they should.

Same with me. I didn't have an NT5 faceplate and they installed a new one FOC. I wonder if they'd give you one of the new filtered NT5 faceplates now?

I don't have an NT5, just somehow presumed that's what a master socket looked like, as i completely forgot about the capacitor thing.  :-[ So no, no other socket in the thing.

I haven't plugged my phone in for months because it either kills the connection or ruins it to less than 100kbps. I remember the quality being crackly at best and full of quiet white noise at worst.

I'm gonna disconnect the router and try the silent test Sam says and see how it goes.

the quiet line test thing doesn't work anymore. It gets answered and all it says is, "This circuit is designed as 01793xxxxxx" twice and then hangs up. There is no options or anything. :(

yup

Strange one. I had to unplug my router to make a phone call, so did and when i reconnected my router it jumped to 3503kbps, when it was only 700kbps before. I wonder if an engineer has been in that moment? Although saying that it's done that once before so i expect <1000kbps within the next couple of hours.

It might train down. Even if it doesn't it may  take up to 3 days to get throughput near to synch speed. Also, you had do have filters on every  in use socket don't you?

I only use the router and just one socket, because the phone fucks everything up. But yeah, i do have a microfilter on the socket my router goes into.

do you have a filter on all sockets in the house?

And also the one he phone goes into, unless you are saying they are one and the same. If not it explains why the phone knackers the ADSL.

Probably have and I'm teaching you how to suck eggs mind.

The phone isn't plugged in at all. If it goes in another socket, even with a microfilter, it crashes the connection. If it's in the same Microfilter as the router it seems ok, but then goes pear shaped.

There's nothing plugged in anywhere, apart from the router, just to clarify! :D

And Bo, i think what i said clears up the microfilter issue, unless of course you mean putting microfilters into unused sockets? :)

http://www.cable.co.uk/news/swindon-announces-free-broadband-project-19465497/

Interesting...

I conclude your phone wiring is gay. I realised you don't normally have the phone in, just wanted to check that when you did you had the filter on. Which you do.

One last question. How do the "extension sockets" run from the main socket. Can they easily be disconnected or are they plumbed in?

They're kinda plumbed in. I can't see much cable kicking about. Certainly no evidence of cabling leaving the master and can only see cable going into/leaving one of my extensions.

Barry's Adventures in Broadband continue....

Lost line totally in December, engineer came out and got it back within about 2 weeks. Once fixed the BB is shockingly unstable. It remained online for a few minutes every few days at shocking speeds, not that it mattered because you couldn't do anything with it for just those few minutes anyway!

Had another engineer, again a "talk" Openreach engineer, despite me explaining the first "talk" engineer said i needed a BB engineer. (The use of the phone crashed connection bigtime. Sometimes dialing 1471, allowed the router to find adsl again!)

Anyway,he came out said i needed a BB engineer. TT eventually get a BB engineer, he fiddles with equipment, finds a problem, BB seems fine. Within a hour, no BB.

TT have now pretty much stopped dealing with me. They explain that there is no problem with my line... All that does is make me want to kill them, because clearly there is a problem.

TalkTalk "support" have changed my BB profile, again, and it does at last seem stable and online. However, the max i get is about 700kbps, and using the phone fucks everything up. Even when unplugged if i get called (i believe).

So TEF, here's my issue, i can only get ADSL where i live, and personally believe that changing provdiers will change nothing as it's all the same cable innit?

Anyway, do i pay to have my flat recabled, which apparently isn't needed?

Pay for a completely brand new line on a new number and get BB through that?

Move provider, signing a 18 month contract with whoever and hope my BB rights itself with a new ISP?

Commit various terrorist atrocities against Charles Dunstone and TalkTalk?

EDIT: I've several routers, cables, microfilters and what not. Also gone to the trouble of testing everything on another line. Equipment is all sound as a pound. I do now have one of those NTE5 or whatever they're called and run the router through the test socket 24/7. :)

Barry, my ISP is good at sorting problems like this. If you want his direct line to talk directly to the boss drop me a pm, beware tho he's not cheap cheap

Barry.

Kill talk talk.  They're cunts.  I've had similar problems which have resulted in me buying new routers etc etc.  They also told me Id have to get a engineer for £160 in.  I kind of solved it myself but it isn't stable at all.  I don't have the spare cash to get the wiring checked so Im just putting up with it.

I was moved from person to person with talk talk and nearly went round and firebombed there offices when someone concluded it was a problem with my computer.  Despite the fact Id used the computer on the previous 3 days in 3 different offices both wired and unwired.

I've had the same problem.  Moved to TalkTalk in the middle of December and only had broadband connection for about 25% of the time despite telling them it was vital to have a reliable service 'cos I work from home.
The telephone line from was even worse - it NEVER rang out, and I only ever recieved 3 incoming calls (and 2 of them were calling someone else and were connected through to me), so over the Christmas/New Year period, I had to use my mobile for everything and it cost me a fortune.

Thier customer service is shit, the technical team never called me back despite several times promising they would, so I am now in the process of taking them to small claims court to reclaim all costs back from them (I was only with them for a month and with thier setup and cancellation charges are over £150 alone.

My advice, drop TalkTalk and move back to BT.  They aren't the cheapest, but I would take reliability over a couple of quid saving anytime!

I was with AOL then Talk Talk and I too can confirm the quality of service and speeds with them were crap, the customer service too is appalling.

I switched to BT and have had no problems since with a steady 6.5MB connection all day every day compaired to 500k to 1.5MB variable with the other two....but with exactly the same line, no extra work has been done on the line since BT took over the broadband yet the speed had mulitplied by 6x to 8x.

BT are expensive but they own the lines and seem to have a monopoly on getting the best possible speed from that line, my brother in law is a BT broadband installation engineer and has stated that some suppliers have their speeds capped by BT.... and..... if the draw of BT customers is high then the BT customers get the priority of higher line speed compaired to the leased out lines to AOL/Talk Talk/Orange etc etc.

It is denied at BT but it does happen.

I can't seem to get on SamKnows at the moment, but IIRC Barry you're on the Blunsdon exchange? I think TalkTalk have LLU at that exchange [EDIT: Just checked, yes they do] so you'll be going through their own hardware rather than BT's. If you switch ISP to someone who uses BT's IPStream rather than their own LLU it could cure your problems (assuming the problem is with TalkTalk's hardware).

I had similar problems to you in the past with Tiscali. Line kept dropping out and using the phone made it worse. In the end they arranged for an Openreach engineer to come out and test the line. He checked all my internal wiring and found nothing, then started tracing the line back to the exchange. Turned out it was a faulty connection in a junction box at the end of my street. The engineer said he'd seen nothing like it before. If that's the same case with you then changing ISP won't help. Have the engineer's that have been out to you done the same test?

Another problem with LLU is that Openreach engineers can only test so much of your line (i.e. between your house and the exchange) and TalkTalk's engineers will have to test the rest (the actual connection at the exchange hardware). So getting your problem resolved relies a lot on the two companies talking to each other properly.

Thanks for all of your wonderful replies. To back up others comments on TalkTalk, i'd love to firebomb the cunts and their customer service. I actually use their web forums now because you don't have to constantly plugin and unplug your router (on almost every fucking phone call) to confirm which lights are on and off...


Same, i've been periodically using a BT network thing, which costs an arm and a leg, as well as having to use other peoples constantly. It's fucking ridiculous. I was thinking about going back with BT, but i have to pay them for the privilege and they're still using that fucking hideous practice of having 18 month rolling contracts i believe. That alone makes me want to avoid them. :)


Yeah Blunsdon exchange, that's right. Thanks Sam. The engineers have been out 3 times (as sent by TT) and twice from sweet talking a couple off the street, so 5 times in all. The line, as far as all are concerned is sweet. There was originally an error between my flat and the box where the line comes in, but he swapped pairs a few times and all was them well on according to his equipment.

It's weird. Just after they leave, i get over 3mb. It then drops within 5 minutes and settles back down to 200-600kbps. That happens everytime an engineer comes round!?!

According to TT, everything is well between them and the exchange. And according to BT everything's well between me and the exchange. The other thing is router stats are al over the place in a big way. Margins of between 0 and 4,000,000,000db. Yes, you read that right. :)

I think i may have to speak to BT and bite the bullet. But i suppose it's better than being in a constant state of internet cold turkey.

You haven't got a neighbour running a radio transmitter do you? Could be radio interference.

How about switching to Virgin adsl broadband?

Never heard of any problems with them sending out engineers to fix problems and they will have plenty of their own people in Swindon. They sent out a team of 5 engineers to convert me to digital a while back.

Not that i know of. I've cancelled now. It's been down twice today already and it's driving me insane. Fuck it. It might cost more with BT but at least it will work. [he says not knowing whether or not it will.]


I've moved to BT now and with all the problems i've had, i think that with the lines being BT's I'd like to think if problems still persist, once moving, they can sort their shit out. :)

AARRRRRGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

SOMEONE. MUST. DIE.

My adventures in cunting broadband almost drew tears today. This is a fucking joke, bigtime.

To cut a story down a bit. TalkTalk fucked up my cancellation so lost my number, so when bt was due live in early marcg nothing happened. They also didn't tell me it was fucked for a week with phoning them everyday. When someone eventually explains that the line was disconnected by TT, i have to pay BT £130 for the privilege of paying them more than any other provider and get a new line.

With the temperature of my blood wwaaaayyyyyyyy past boiling at this point, fuck you was my reaction. I then discover Virgin, phew... £30 for new line and about a third less per month than BT. Game on.

Well Virgin told me an engineer was coming out today. I waited all day, they didn't come. Checked my telephone line and it was live, plugged in my router and showing as <600kbps.

So i left home because that speed is a FUCKING JOKE and phoned Virgin because i presumed there was still work to be done, i don't know, i think i was just living in hope!

Turns out the best i can get with them is 500kbps. (After they sold it to me at 1500kbps, when i used to get 3500kbps.)

The smarmy customer service cunt was offended by my use of the word shit (when used to describe talktalk) and threatened to terminate the call, despite me not even being slightly irate with him. This then got my back right up, but i remained pleasant. He explained it doesn't matter what sales told me, i have 500kbps and that's a fact; the proof is in the pudding.

I now have to put up with 12 months more of total cunt service. 1 of the routers (the one Virgin sent me) even tells me ADSL doesn't exist. One of my other routers says it does exist, but that the speed is way down the scale of crap.

I should of just paid BT the £130 new line and £35 a month or whatever, although i suspect i'd have the same problems albeit with larger bills.

Fucking hell i could not possibly be angrier at the moment. Just thought i'd share how my wonderful experience has evolved.

If they are not providing a service that they said they would then you can cancel the contract.

Talk Talk offered me a 1.5mbps service, but in truth it was about 200kbps. I told them and although it took an age on the phone numerous times, I eventually got out of it.

Persistance is the key.

I'm getting the following with Virgin Media in West Swindon:

Date 23/03/10 17:11:04
Speed Down 3772.96 Kbps ( 3.7 Mbps )
Speed Up 456.28 Kbps ( 0.4 Mbps )
Port 8095
Server speedtest1.thinkbroadband.com

However that's on cable. Have you got cable access Barry? Might be easier to swap over than keep fucking about with ADSL.

I should really, but this problem has been on-going for over a year. It's kind of at that stage now where i just feel like a beaten man. There's only so many times you can be told, "them's the rules" before you just say fuck it or go apoplectic down the phone at someone.

It's not like i have proof they sold that to me at that speed and it's not like if they did they'd apologise and allow me out of my 1 day old contract. I'll have to go back home and fuck around with the various routers and see what i can achieve. I just think it's going to be like it was, woefully unstable and completely and utterly pointless, as a means of utilising the wonders of Hypertext Transfer Protocol.

@TalkTalk

That's the beauty of this hateful problem. I have shit ADSL or dial-up. No cable, which would be glorious.

Virgin will be using the BT cables to the local exchange won't they? It's unlikely there is any problem at or after the exchange, so if there is a problem its got to be with the BT cables which would be the same with everyone.

I thought most contracts now have a 14 day cancellation period ?

If so I would cut and run from Virgin and go call BT.......

An unlocked BT2700 ADSL Wireless router with SBC firmware is very good on a long line but very rare now, not even one on ebay at the mo as I was looking for one earlier

Have you tried changing the filters?
Have you tried a different phone?

Virgin don't. I tried to cancel when I took mine out (they still hadn't connected me nearly two weeks after my "connection date") but they say they don't have a cooling off period.

Bazza - I found with Virgin that if you try and talk to the CS or technical support monkeys then you won't get anywhere. I spoke to someone within retentions (they don't have a complaints department  ::)) and the girl there was very helpful.

I still reckon you've got a problem with your line somewhere.


And just to get the "my internet penis is bigger than your internet penis" game on the go :)

Also Virgin Media in West Swindon (ADSL).

Date     23/03/10 17:55:41
Speed Down    11939.51 Kbps ( 11.7 Mbps )
Speed Up    735.21 Kbps ( 0.7 Mbps )
Port    8095
Server    speedtest1.thinkbroadband.com

I have put up with shitty Tiscali (now Talk Talk, who have put my subscription up) for ages... this is what i get, despite being off an exchange 600 yards away, and supposedly getting 8Meg

Date     23/03/10 18:05:52
Speed Down    1323.09 Kbps ( 1.3 Mbps )
Speed Up    376.18 Kbps ( 0.4 Mbps )
Port    8095
Server    speedtest1.thinkbroadband.com

After 5pm i can barely watch a youtube video/iplayer program/submityourflicks video...

You're a victim of over contention Lucien ie Pile em high sell it cheap

Just done my test and I'm 1.76km from the exchange

23/03/10 18:37:50
Speed Down   4695.18 Kbps ( 4.6 Mbps )
Speed Up   374.60 Kbps ( 0.4 Mbps )
Port   8095

I've finally finished moving over from TalkTalk and with BT for the phone (100% reliable) and went with O2 for the broadband as I got a good deal because I have a mobile with them.  This is now 99.5% reliable (occasional drop for 30 seconds, but this is very occasional).

TalkTalk cocked up my switch-over date internally, so although I got the telephone connnection on the day I was promised they still kept trying to invoice me for the service (and a disconnection charge!).  In the end I wrote a snotty letter to the chairman (and sent it recorded delivery) and ended getting all costs reimbursed.

Had bit of a pain moving the broadband over though.  No providors (BT, O2, and many more) could switch me on until everything had been switched off by TalkTalk.  This left me with a week-long gap after TalkTalk but before O2 where I had no internet - major pain in the arse!

Anyhow, all is now well and one major lesson learnt - IF IT'S WORKING, DON'T CHANGE!

My Internet penis is really dinky then  8)  I can't be arsed to trawl the VM web site, but I think we have the minimum package from yonks ago. Presumably you pay for 10Mb Sam.

Not that I'm bothered, I remember the days of 2400 baud dial up...  ::)

Why is everybody getting on my back over this? Look, I'm sorry, ok?

Appology accepted - just don't do it again!

Cheer, i'll have a word tomorrow. I have fucked about and got 700kbps (on some shitty Netgear 'G' router which is annoying when i have a near new 'N' router). Having any BB though, if you've been without BB for as long as i have, is like mainlining a sweet batch of smack. Despite it being fucking slow and shit, being online for longer than a few minutes, is making me properly happy. :D

I also reckon i have a problem with the line, but everybody in almost every industry these days plays pass the buck and trying to get straight answers about this is like speaking japanese.

With regards to waving internet penises about, didn't magicroundabout, as if impersonating an internet Dion Dublin, get something out of his internet pants resembling a pig with no legs? 100MB if i remember correctly.

hahahah

fucking ace Bazza !

Have you had a proper line test done yet Bazzza and been told what distance you are from your serving exchange and the quality of your line?

Like you’ve already sussed your lines fucked somewhere between your master socket and the exchange.  A bog standard line test will tell you the distance from the exchange and the overall quality of your line.

If you fire a phone into the master socket can you hear any noise or clicking on the line?

It’s also worth seeing what the neighbours or getting or if they’ve left routers unsecured have a gander yourself!  That might highlight a wider issue with the area.

Finally, just a stupid one.  Do you see any variation with the weather as it could be a wet joint in the cab?

Yeah, i'm about 4 miles from the exchange. They've also said the line quality is good. I've had 3 Openreach engineers over this year and only one found a problem, which he fixed. He said the line from my flat to the next junction box was problematic. He changed the pairs, twice, and the final pair he said was fine.

He immediately connected at 3mb, as did i on my router. Within an hour, everything was back to as it was. SHIT. AS. FUCK. Adsl just goes missing, the router can't find it, and then it comes back. There's also nothing to suggest the weather has anything to do with it.

Seems last night I was busy counting my chickens. It's barely been able to sustain a connection for longer than a few minutes since last night. So in a rage i decided to phone virgin again, i got through to a properly nice chap, who patiently listened to everything i said, and he said, go in the Yellow pages and get an engineer to recable it, or slip some cash to an Openreach engineer.

He explained that the intermittent problem of adsl disappearing altogether, along with the phone taking it down and the fact the other 2 pairs in the cable are shot, seems to imply the cable is fucked.

I'm glad he suggested yellow pages, because this is a suggestion i like. No waiting for openreach, no fucking about. Bish Bash Bosh. Gingers crossed. :)

What model is the "shitty G Netgear" Barry

Anyhow there is some nice custom tweakable firmware here if your model is compatible. Might be worth a play, especially on a long line like yours

http://dgteam.tk/

Gingers crossed...hee hee

Haha, didn't notice i'd done that. :D

@stfcinbmth - I've no idea, i'm not too worried now because i've no plans to use the Netgear, i'll just sell it on eBay. It's the standard white one that you see everywhere. Not shitty, really, just free and therefore inferior to the one i spent money on. :)

I spoke to Virgin again last night and the another rather nice chap said, don't get an engineer yourself, we'll send one out because we're responsible for the cabling up to the test socket. This is great news, and also a bit fucking annoying, because TalkTalk never provided such useful info, while acknowlegding the cabling seems fucked and it's there responsibility.

Hopefully, give it a week and an engineer who doesn't mind a bit oh hardwork, can fit me some new cable. :D

With that firmware it will be a lot better(if compatable)

Don't flog it Barry, it's always handy to have a spare

I'm happy, it seems the Blunsdon exchange is on for FTTC later this year, should get over 20 meg if I go for that!

My exchange is due for FTTC this summer, just in time for when my 12 month contract ends :)

That'll happen in summer 2012 then

Yay! Although I expect it to be delayed again. I've been following progress on the upgrade like a Hawk, seeing as my BB is always fucked and presumed it was because it needed an upgrade. It has been rescheduled 3 times now i believe (if it's the same upgrade) the first being in March 2008 from recollection.

I bet its the loop from the cabinet to your house that is stuffed though :)