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so, the general consensus yesterday is that wilson started with the wrong team and/or formation which led to all kinds of nonsense.  we have another game imminent where we can make things right, so what team would you pick?

operating on the assumption we don't get another striker in by tuesday.

4-4-2 with O'brien and macca on the wings and Macklin up front with paynter. Everything else more or less the same as I reckon he just tried a particular system and it didn't work out.

I think we should go with the well known Asymmetrical Inside Out Christmas Tree

How zany.

I think we should try one of the other goalkeepers :)

Up front?

I'd go with that - dropping Cuthbert for Macklin.

What Wilson appeared to be trying to do was accommodate Macca, while at the same cobbling together a couple of strikers.  With 4:4:2, there has to be someone alongside Paynter to hold up play and stop the ball being send straight back from whence it came.

I would play 4:5:1 to minimise hoofball, with Macca on the wing with the extra midfielder slotting in behind Macca when he gets forward to make up for Macca's defensive frailties.  If the alternative is 4:4:2, I think you would have to drop Macca.  

4-4-2

Big Kev at right back for Cuthbert.

O'Brien right wing, Macca left. Paynter and Macklin up front.

I might be tempted for Kennedy in for Lescinel too.

Kennedy behind Macca might be a bit light weight on the left.  4:5:1 going to 4:3:3 when attacking (formation a la King) might be a better option, a midfielder playing in position is probably better than a makeshift striker.

wasn't a lack of pace in defense an issue yesterday?

Lack of pace or half asleep, these players weren't that bad last season.  Shirtliff's supposed to be the defensive guru, maybe they didn't know their jobs.  Would not be surprised to see Ifil in for Morrison.  I have no problem with Kennedy, but don't like the idea of Macca in front of him.

I wouldn't go changing the players too much, even the best players in the league would have struggled with the wrong system and/or mentality.

Keep the more more or less the same but get the system right but maybe consider bringing in Ifil for pace at the back. Having said that the correct positioning and use of the offside trap should counter lack of pace if used properly.

I am doubting it is the players, rather the tactics where all pete tong.

Has everyone forgotten just how shit Ifil was last season and the number of times he was directly responsible for gifting goals to the opposition? Morrison hardly put a foot wrong last season, yet he has one bad game (along with the rest of the team) and everyone is saying he should be dropped for Ifil.

Complete and utter bollocks if you ask me.

And how many people have forgotten just how good Ifil can be when on form?

I don't think that many, if any, are suggesting dropping Morrison because he is crap but because maybe we need a bit more pace at the back.

im always saying this, people annoy me when they say who ever isnt playing should be in the team, when we had zaaboub and roberts, which ever 1 played out of the 2 and was shit u hear fans around u saying that the other 1 is much better and should be playing, but they say the same when its the other way round!!

i'm with jonny.how can people think ifil is the answer to our troubles?
he was dire last season.
my daughter has a better touch.


i'd set up the side with players in their strongest positions on tues.if that mesans 1 upfront,so be it.

only crozzer suggested ifil should play, not everyone!

Ifil with the right defensive partner and when his confidence is up is quality imo.

Ill prob get shot down for saying that 8)

see other threads.not everyone but a few

I'll admit I've only seen Ifil play last season but it wasn't just one bad game, he was consistently shit.

Though I'm not sure why anyone would single Morrison out for lacking pace, from the goals it looks like you could say the same about Jean-Francois and Greer and probably most of the team. They just did what they did throughout last season - go in to "shit mode" for some reason, same team next time is just as likely to go in to "half decent mode".

It was a bad day at the office, changing a few players isn't going to alter that. Wilson needs to figure out what the fuck is happening to get them to play like that - its like the whole team just suddenly turn to shit.

I typed I wouldn't be surprised if Ifil played on Tuesday, that's not to say it's the best idea.  

Greer should be the sort of player that would be able to organise Ifil, Greer isn't as pacy as some.  Ifil did alright with Williams alongside him.  Either get Ifil back to being a decent Div I defender or send him out on loan.

We lost a lot of games by the odd goal with a shit defense including nervy goalkeepers last season, now we have a better defense we ship five, but we did have a strike force that could keep the ball at the other end.

What's the best plan?  This is a new defensive set-up, if I were Shirtliff I would argue that it will take several games for the keeper and back four to develop a really good understanding.  If Cuthbert is match fit, and the bad day at the office argument is made, same back four may well turn out.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/606/A55519310

check this post out some Aberdeen fan reckons Ifil is on trial with them !!

There's an Ifil in their line-up that's for sure.

http://www.afc.premiumtv.co.uk/page/News/clubNewsDetail/0,,10284~1748566,00.html

Ifil spent most of last season being slated by our fans, due to the fact he was shit. Not the answer.

And that report says Jerel Ifil played confidentally and provided stability to the back four. Must have been one of his random good games.

With Amankwaah dropping to full back, he offers that recovery pace that Greer and Morrison need. Greer was fantastic last season, but alongside Amankwaah. A half fit Cuthbert isnt going to be able to run down the long ball and bail out the centre halves.

I'd go 4-2-3-1, with Easton/Timlin and Douglas playing deep and Mcgovern playing between Macca and O'Brien.

If I could be bothered, I could dig out thread(s) where Ifil's performances where being creamed over on a regular basis. Especially under Sturrock (and in this league).

Maybe it's because I can't get to games that things like this stick in my memory longer, but I just can't see how the same player could go from great to shite.

We all know he is a confidence player and Malpas likely sucked whatever confidence out of him, maybe he will regain it at a different club.

I wonder if Malpas was really one of those soul sucking Demon's from Harry Potter.

Well pretty much the entire team managed it yesterday, so it shouldn't be too big a surprise.

as one of ifils biggest critics on here recently, i'll try to explain it how i see it.

in our promotion year from league 2 ifil was player of the year.forget peacock getting it,ifil was better.
him and williams were exellent together.alot of this was because ifil would sweep up-intercept,then give the ball to williams who would pass it out from the back.wise started sending him up for corners etc,and he really did well.
sturrock came in and his form continued,and after promotion he started the following season really strongly.after a while though his form dipped and he was dropped.

since then he has had some decent games,but he has also had some absolutely awful ones too.
he has never been good with the ball,and last season when we were struggling his obvious flaws really were hilighted.
he is our longest serving player but we cant keep having another player holding his hand to get him through a game

  Difficult to see...Wilson has gone for "quality" rather than numbers, so with a couple of long term injuries we've very few options, other than GK.

 Last season we only stayed up because of Cox, then the addition of Greer, OTJ and HRK.

 Of those key 4, there's only 1 left....we've 3 weeks to add some strength to what is a wafer thin squad.

I didn't go yesterday, however I'm clueless as to who i'd pick after that drubbing. :(

There are no real options up front or at left back highlighting our squad weakneses.. I think Macklin should start, either right wing or up front.

Cuthbert isnt ready and Amankwaah should go to right back.

This is a crucial team sheet for Wilson. He must get things right and fast.

I think we should bring in Rampraka...oh wait.

Yep. Spot on.

I'd imagine that DW will want a much more solid look to the team,with a game plan that all the
players are familiar and comfortable with.

if I had to pick the team for the next game...

Smith

Amankwaah
Greer
Morrison
Lescinel

JPM
Timlin
Douglas
McNamee

Paynter
Macklin

Get kev away from right mid and put JPM in or anyone who looks like they might want the ball. Cuthbert is not ready, stick him in the reserves for two weeks. I'd rather see kennedy at left back than lescinel after saturday.

My concern is keeper changes some have mentioned.  We went wrong last year as we chopped and changed and never let one settle which then in turn knocked the stuffing out of both of them.  I cannot bear to see that happen again.

Confidence wise, they must be pretty shot after Saturday and Cuthbert sounds like he needs a couple of games in the ressies to settle/get back into the swing of things.

On reflection, I'd go Mank, Greer, Morrison and Lescinel - that looked fine before and can't just go from looking pretty solid to utter shite in one game.

The remainder I'd go with same as DV, however possibly give Lucas another chance.

I see your point Luc, I'd rather we stayed with the same keeper. After the end of last season I still think Smith should be number 1.

Lucas didn't do much wrong for any of their goals.

It would be wrong to change the goalkeeper.

Also, Macklin shouldn't be anywhere near the side.

Bring in Easton, pack the midfield, and tell Nature Boy and Douglas to get beyond the striker at every available opportunity.

Well I think Macklin has done enough during pre-season to earn his place, yes he is still young/learning but at least he has a bit of a buzz about him and if he starts popping goals in like he did last year for the youth/reserves then it will be happy days all round.

agreed, if hes given the service this boy can finish

I agree with you on that point, however testament to PS as you never hear him moaning and whinging, just gets on with it and works hard to get his place.  Such a confidence player though and very glad he didn't start this season as a 5-0 drubbing could have had an awful effect on him.

i'd love to see macklin given a chance whilst we're lacking strikers, he might be young and raw but he's better than nowt.

i don't see how we can go into a home game with only one up front...

He did well enough in the friendlies to show he's an adequate stop-gap until we get somebody else in. I was surprised he didn't start on Saturday.

Why do some people think new formations like 4-3-2-1 or 4-1-4-1 or whatever is the solution at the moment? The only formations that have been used over the past year are 4-4-2 and 3-5-2 (or 3-4-3). No point fucking about with some crazy formation the team aren't used to, we need to stick with what they know.

The lack of a 2nd striker is obviously an issue but I'd say fuck it - let Macklin have a go alongside Paynter. At least that way the team is in a formation they're used to and I reckon there is a chance Macklin could cut it - he scored a good few goals in the reserve / youth team didn't he?

Same goes for people suggesting McNamee is a liability defensive wise in a 4-4-2. That ain't news and it didn't seem to cause too many problems last season. Plus he seems to work really well with Amankwaah behind him.

Could it be worth trying Lescinel at centre back? He's surely quicker than Morrison/Greer so would add a bit of pace.

Shoot me down though, I have never seen him play and just making random suggestions!

Out of interest have you forgot about last season? You seem to have forgot we nearly went down last year

Pace is one thing but he has the worst positional sense of the back 4 so I would not move him there, after Saturdays display I would be tempted to bring Kennedy in for Lescinel.

Lescinel did well against Peterborough last season. Hopefully that bad performance is not to be repeated, much like the other players.

To be fair to lescinal on saturday he had his own man to mark also had jackson to deal with after greer and morrison let him go and no protection from o'brien once he got injured.

Yes but the way that guy coasted past him on the first goal was embarassing and he kept letting the ball bounce when they hit long which is defensive basics.  Vast majority of problems were down his side and arguably he was at fault for 3 of the goals.

Bit harsh to pin 3 on him !

Does anyone remember the best combination of centre backs this country has ever had - Jack Charlton and Bobby Moore, neither had pace.
Charlton put himself about and Moore read the game so well he didn't need pace

Morrison and Greer are nowhere close to being in the same class, but as professional footballers and with some similarities should in time do a good job for us.

If we start changing the line up at the back after every disaster or defeat then another disaster and defeat will follow. They need time to form a partnership.

I think you're right - last season we never saw Greer getting turned inside out, and Morrison was no mug either. Saturday was a bad day for an overwhelming majority of the team, those two included. Hopefully they can sort it out for tonight.

Charlton and Moore got away with it because Nobby Stiles kicked anything in front of them...you're old enough to remember Don Rogers leaving Bobby Moore hopelessly exposed for pace when Town put 6 on West Ham in the space of 4 days back in 67.

no it isn't.

Everyone has/had a bad day even Bobby Moore!!!

Lawrenson & Hanson - enough medals between them to fill a suitcase - and of course our own Burrows & Harland - none of them greyhounds.

In Douglas we have our cruncher in the middle.

The point is, we are a very average side in Division One,  I was trying to make a case for giving our centre backs time to form a partnership, not the view from most that the problems last weekend came about because of lack of pace with Morrison and Greer.

You are old enough to know if you keep changing formations and individuals after a defeat, another defeat will normally follow, and then another, and another.

He was definitely at fault on the first, the headed goal from the set piece looked like it was his man or that he could of done better and I am pretty sure there was another which he did poorly in. 

Lescinel was very impressive pre-season then Saturday he went back to last seasons form and positionally was poor, didn't win enough headers and wasted possession.  Although don't want to single him out too much as there was at least 9 other players who were dreadful.

Not against Plymouth he wasn't. But again nobody was as the defence looked shakey (with Ifil) and the attack non existent.

To be honest I think the main person mentioned the different funny formations is Wilson himself.

I think most of us when giving our opinion/selection have gone for a basic 4-4-2 or 4-5-1.

It's easy to pick a defender & blame them for goals, but they should work as a unit & cover each other, and that plainly didn't happen.

For instance, if we didn't love Morrison so much we could easily have seen the mistakes a different way


Goal 1, Lescinel gets beaten for pace by Jackson, Greer goes to cover, Morrison covers the guy in the middle, oh except he didn't & was jogging back from half-way.

Goal 2, Long ball over the top, Greer & Morrison beaten for pace (don't see how this can be Lescinels fault).

Goal 3, Free kick, free header. Could just as easily blame either Greer or Morrison as Lescinel.

Goal 4, Morrison made to look stupid on the edge of the box & Jackson scores.

Goal 5, Poor Clearance by Greer, Poor clearance by Lescinel ball back in lands at Jacksons feet. But who's idly wandering about aimlessley in the box, yeah Morrison. So in fact all three can take the blame for that one.

You say it's not harsh to blame Lescinel for three goals, then it is equally as feasible to blame Morrison for all 5 (not that I think they were all his fault).

One of them i'm partially blaming on Marshall... failed to put a challenge in for the loose ball and generally skipped around like a cunt while someone won it and played it back in