Thetownend.com

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/politics/5293147/MPs-expenses-Telegraph-investigation-exposes-allowances.html (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/politics/5293147/MPs-expenses-Telegraph-investigation-exposes-allowances.html)

That's my fucking hard earned money you are troughing, you stealing cunts.

Shock horror-MPs claim dodgy expenses!

that's about 1/200th of a penny each that cost us the bastard.

shock horror MPs claim what we allow them to

I don't think it cost you anything Ben  ;)

:D

This is has been going on for years!

*yawn*

Can some clever fucker please open up a Politics section so that us folks that dont even remotely give a fuck dont have to read it


Many thanks

No, they claim what they allow themselves to - they make the expenses rules then exploit them.

Nope. No more sections. It would end up like that horrible mess which is the lnp forum. Can't go on there. Gives me a headache.

well then can who ever starts a political thread make it clear in the subject what its about please

One of them claimed for tampons, that's just taking the bloody piss.

you made me chuckle!

very naughty indeed.you can bet the tories have been at it too.

They're all it Arriba, just at the moment the Daily Torygraph have chosen to highlight the enemy only!

eh?

Torygraph is only going to be exposiing Labour MPs arriba


It was a bloke who claimed too.

You don't give a fuck that all that tax you are paying is being stolen? Wouldn't you prefer to pay less tax? Hmmmm...

With the greatest of respect there are more things for me to worry about in this world other than if a minute % of the tax I am paying is lining someone elses pocket.

"all that tax" is a very sweeping statement and you are wrong.

And I bet you never used to pinch black jacks from the corner shop when you were a kid either.



Let me put a scenario to you and I ask you to answer honestly .....................

You start a job and part of your T's & C's you get a car allowance of say £500.00 per month, it quickly transpires that all your work is based in London so you have agreement to commute every day by train and claim back the weekly travel (£190) on your expenses.

Would you ............

a) approach your employer and offer to forfeit the £500 car allowance as you solely commute by train, therefore negating the need of a car

OR

b) say nothing as your terms state you are entitled to the car allowance



The vast majority I pay in tax is put to extremely good use.

As a lot of people are aware I have had my fair share of time spent with the NHS and the care that I received and am still receiving is second to none.

Nobody is whiter than white and we hardly live in a corrupt infrastructure.

For those people who dont like it they can always fuck off to another country and see what goes on there.

See you in 6 months when you all come back with your tails between your legs.

 

HA HA HA HA HA HA HA, that's the funniest thing I have ever read on here.


That's a good call and my plan.


Nope, I would never come back. This country is fucked and it's because the majority of people sit and happily take the shit that is heaped upon them by corrupt politicians.

Want a hand packing ?


I really really hope you never have to call on our welfare state for anything more serious than a filling Alan.

Lord forbid you require anything more serious than that, otherwise it will make you look a bit of a hypocritical twat

Very patriotic Frederick, I can see exactly where you are coming from.  Like yourself I have had occasion to be very grateful to the NHS.  Some people need a reality check, went to Jamaica last autumn, poverty everywhere - do you here them moaning about their lot though?

I am patriotic Ronnie and extremely grateful for the care I have received over the past 5 years

The Labourgraph, as it's apparently known by its readers, as highlighted by this (http://www.independent.co.uk/news/media/opinion/stephen-glover/stephen-glover-too-close-for-comfort-how-the-telegraph-mishandled-mcbride-1674698.html) and this (http://www.order-order.com/2009/04/can-brogan-really-restore-the-telegraphsreputation-for-political-reporting/), is doing the Shadow Cabinet next, rumoured to be tomorrow, then followed by Lib Dems

the welfare system in this country is tremendous, but that can never have enough funding to do everything we'd like for people that genuinely need it - in part because of fraudulent claims or weaknesses in the system that allow waste fo those resources.

and all the time we've had this, the cunts that are supposed to be improving the system, for the good of the electorate, have been exploiting a different system to line their own pockets - in the smae way that all those nasty benefit cheats do.

my experience of the health service has always been excellent, once its possible to get seen and as long as you expect you might need to buy a pot of paracetamol to use afterwards as they can't afford to dishe them out to everyone

the example of a filling is quite a good one - how many of you have an NHS dentist ?   even if you do, you could get a lot of 48 pound filling charges for the same cost as employing your husband to watch mucky vids on the taxpayer's expense.

i certainly don't think mps that have constituencies in luton, but claim for a house in southampton (because its got dry rot and needs fixing) shouldn't be hounded out of office, or at the very least made to pay capital gains tax when they flog that bloody house off for a profit ? or that shin fein shouldn't be able to claim half a million quid when they don't even turn up to paliament out of principal.

whatever it is, it certainly isn't leading by example - i hope some of these bastards get hounded out of office.

mind you though, tiny-tiny hazel blears in motorcycle leathers...  is that doing it for anyone ?

There are enough lamposts surrounding parliament square to accomodate the hanging of all 646.

If there was ever a reason to vote for a party that isn't one of the Lib/Lab/Con triumvirate, this has got to be it.

Hang them, hang them all.

Please answer honestly

Ditto Fred!

clearly its a, i wouldn't want to get audited by HMRC and for them to ask where all that went and if it was taxable especially if i was also claiming expenses.

What if you had tax deducted at source on it Genf ?

MP's expenses are tax exempt.

Quote from: Fred Elliot on Today at 12:55:04
What if you had tax deducted at source on it Genf ?

then i don't see a problem with it, its a taxable part of your pay - doesn't matter if they call it a 'car allowance' or a 'special brew, tabs and porn fund'. but i'd be surprised that the employer didn't ask for receipts - it might turn out that that changes when all this is over.  i assume you aren't paid from the public purse either.

i have no problem with mps claiming expenses to stay in london when at parliament or travelling there, but waht i do have a problem with is them pretending they live in a room with their sister whilst claiming mortgage payments on a mansion elsewhere.  or getting expenses to do up a house, then flog it on at a profit before moving on smewhere else - and evading tax on that by pretending its their primary residence to HMRC, but their second home to parliament.

MPs get a decent wack too about 70grand i thought - its not like they are struggling through on 20k a year.  if they didn't like those terms they should fuck off, frankly and get a job in the real world.

Expenses yes

Car allowances as part of your remuneration package no

Its an allowance as part of my remuneration package and albeit not from the public purse, we still have shareholders that we have to account to.

The main part of my analagy is that I would suspect to a man, that if we all answered honestly, we would all accept the payment as its legal,and rightly or wrongly we are entitled to it.

The rules that state that it is right are a different matter

I don't know nearly enough to make a proper comment, but surely those benefiting are those that make the rules in the first place?

So what exactly is your point then?

These "honourable" gentlemen are milking the system of expenses and allowances for every last penny they can get out of it, while exempting themselves from the burdens of the tax system you and I are subjected to, while simultaneously putting there hand in your pocket and taking your hard earned.

Do you not see anything that is morally wrong here?

I see, you're doing a "Cameron" as in not criticising this lot because you know you've got your hands in the till yourself.

Fred's on the make.

Shame on you.

We're all on the make.

Not on the make at all

My contract of employment states that I am entitled to it so why shouldn't I claim it ?

Like I said, whether my contract is morally wrong is another issue

I think I clearly stated my point 2 post previous to yours Ironside, oh great whiter than white one

The big difference with MP's is that they should be setting an example for the rest of the population, rather than abusing the system which they themselves put in place. They don't just claim for reasonable expenses, most claim every single penny they want and take it for as much as possible.

There is a very simple solution though. Provide shared housing near Parliament, a few blocks of apartments would do the trick, where they can stay when they need to with everything provided and then give them all a rail pass.

The simple solution would be to increase the salary abit...and have NO expenses..end of any contoversy.

and if your shareholders decided the car allowance was inappropriate, i'm sure they would put a stop to it - they haven't, and the fact its part of your salary and you pay tax on it too, means you can do waht you want with it anyway - I wasn't accusing you of being on the make ! 

however, i, as a stakeholder i suppose the term is now, taxpayer, am saying the mps use of their expenses and allowances is wholly inappropriate - it may be a necessary part of the job, but they've abused it, profited from it and in some case seem to have been involved in fraud, tax evasion and all sorts.

If MP's are following the rules and still taking the piss then the rules are wrong.

My missus got the Daily Mail yesterday ..........you would think its only Labour that take the piss out of expenses!!  Right wing arse rag!

The truth is ....the rules are wrong and all the parties take the piss!!

And this is the issue that MPs have failed to grasp (generally).  They seem to think that by breaking no law they've done no wrong.  It doesn't work that way.  Good work, Fred, you understand this point.

That's because the Telegraph thus far has only released details of Labour, which the Mail is using for its own reports, but make no mistake all parties are going to get both both barrels from every paper.

The Telegraph is doing the Tories tomorrow

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/mps-expenses/5304821/MPs-expenses-Telegraph-investigation-shifts-to-Conservatives.html

Fred + perception of the British state =

[url width=292 height=400]http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_v2tO9US4pME/SK6IKH8UUQI/AAAAAAAADZI/zKd4nRZzK9Y/s400/blinkers.JPG[/url]

Alan + general persona =

[url width=577 height=576]http://www.manbottle.com/pictures/man_with_a_very_big_cock.jpg[/url]

Thats one hell of a cock hes got there!

So Fred, just because "it's in the rules" within your PRIVATE comapany that makes it "OK" fair enough, you ripp off your employer. Sooner or later, that little perk will come to an end pal, more than likely in the next few months. That's because there is a recession. Manage to keep it? fair play, but then you work for a private company, in the small, and ever decreasing sector of the economy that actually creates wealth. I'd personally be suprisedif you manage to keep that scam up for another 12mths.

Unfortunately for our MP's, they happen to be employed in the public sector.   That'll be the public sector that I pay for through my taxes. That's the public sector that currently makes up more that 80% of the GDP of the UK. That's right, 80 fucking percent.

Are you telling me that THEY, the cunt's who make the fucking rules for themselves and change these fucking rules for themselves deserve any fucking sympathy?

Lets have it right Freddy boy, they, the establishment, are fucking you and me rioyally up the arse and then turning around and shitting in your face and then asking you to vote for them again next year. And their excuse for it is because "it was within the rules".

Your, and anyone elses, NHS treatment has got absolutely jack shit to do with the point in question.

I am so glad that I have better things to do than get so wound up about this stuff.

for one of the first times ever im 100% behind ironside in this one, well said fella.

Great aim Ironside.

Nail - head - hit.

Exactly my perspective.

The storm surrounding MPs' expenses has flared up simply because successive governments (starting, I think, during Thatcher's time) have agreed to having a lax expenses policy as an alternative to ramping up MPs' salaries.  The basic salary for an MP is less than £70,000 - and while that may sound like a fair whack to many, it is nothing like enough to compensate an individual for performing a job of that nature.

Ideally, we would not have gone down this route.  MPs should have received proper pay reviews and expenses would not have been used to bolster overall remuneration.  I think a lot of people are going to be in for a nasty shock when the dust settles on this because, yes, the expenses culture is likely to be severely curtailed - but I would also expect to the see the basic salary rise by at least 50% to compensate.  The way in which MPs will be paid will be much more transparent and appear less grubby, but the overall package will be broadly the same.

One of the problems is that there are too many MP's who are career politicians. ie. They've studied politics etc, but never worked for a living so are living in a bubble & many are in it just for the money.  IMHO MP's need to have experience of the life that we lead if they are supposed to represent us.
What I would call a conviction politician is becoming a very rare thing. But I believe we need more MP's who are in it becaause they BELIEVE in what they are doing, & want to make a difference. eople like Tony Benn & Margaret Thatcher (Agree or disagree with their policies).
Of course we need Mp's to be paid, but that shouldn't be the main attraction of the job. (Although, the one thing about MP's who have been successful before elected is that they probably aren't in it so much for the money & are probably better qualified to run the country)
The second sticking point for me is that as they have signed over most of the law making for this country to the European Commision they are less needed than they were.
Thirdly what hasn't been signed over to Brussels is devolved to Scotland & Wales where as in England, but all MPs' dexcide on English undevolved bits.
Why don't they stop all expenses & just put them up in a Halls of residence or similar. If they don't want to use it that is up to them, but they should pay.


 

Behind Ironside??  You can claim to be his carer!!!!   Just a thought! :nod:

Think Ardiles summed up my perspective in his posts.

Not sure Fred was necessarily arguing that the situation is correct or morally so, more that if we were in the MPs shoes we'd probably act in the same manner. That said, there needs to be accountability because the MPs represent the general public and the majority of our perceptions are that under this system we are not getting value for money.

My last point is food for thought more than anything, what is a fair way of agreeing a remuneration package for MPs?

It's simple, Give them a wage, & pay them a lodging allowance if they represent a constituency outside of a one hour commute distance. Those who comute should get a free BR season ticket from their constituency to Westminster & those who get a lodging allowance should get rail fares paid for journeys to & from their constituency upon production of a receipt.
Researcher/ Secretarys could be provided from a pool of civil servants or a falt rate allowance paid.
All benefits should be taxable the same way as any employee benefit is taxable.

Who decides the wage though Phil?

Talk Talk, Ironside and pauld.  It'd be a laugh to watch the debate. :D

Dunno, Talk Talk and Ironside would probably agree and PaulD would veto  ;D

Politicians being dodgy? It's scandalous!

I dunno about the rest of you, but I'm not standing for it. We must do something! I propose we follow talk talk's lead and start a thread about it on a internet football forum.

That'll fucking show them.....

Fact is i remember saying that i dont vote on account of all politicians being dodgy...obviously lots of em work hard and are not on the make..but for me its a flawed system,/48% voted labour so ware does that leave the other majority who thaught(rightly) that this bunch would mess up.
If you dont vote dont whinge...blah,blah,blah.
I dont intend to be a lemming and vote cos everyone else is.

A tory has claimed to have their "Moat dredged"  :D

No 48% of the 32% who actually got off their arses and voted, voted for labour. Hardly a representative majority is it?

Bearing in mind that it was only the parliamentary labour party (about 300-ish MP's) who voted for our current Prime Minister, do you not think that the alleged "democracy"we live in is nothing but an illusion?

Forget I said that, you just carry on driving your lorry....

Without wishing to be a bore, the Parliamentary labour party didn't even get to vote for Brown, he stood without opposition as nobody else (bar John McDonnell who had no chance) had the balls to stand against him.

 :zzz:

Not terribly exciting I know, but it fits in with the general nitpicking of the thread.

Sorry Nemo, it's not your reply.....it's politics for me  :doh:

so it was a stitch up then, as you confirm.  The PLP could only manage to stand candidates for the deputy.

Democracy in the UK is a fucking illusion...

Well a thread with 5 pages of politics probably isnt one you should bother reading or commenting on then.Didnt you guess it was political after the 1st post?

I'd pay them the average wage. That way they'd have an interest in raising said average wage

Well you should know me better than that Si.

I wouldn't have the fuckers in the first place.

"Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely" - Lord Acton. A quote which is usually taken out of context...what he was aiming at was that power attracts those who are already corrupt. I couldn't agree more. String the cunts up and don't replace them, it can never work.

Actually here's a better version:

To return to the picture theme TT started on Fred yesterday:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/c/ce/Frootloopsbox.jpg

Are you saying that I'm a cereal killer?

I think mainly I was saying I don't know how to post an img rather than a URL. Corrected it now, but the damage is done. I'm crushed by my own incompetence :(

Are you Gordon Brown in disguise?

You mean a one-eyed view of life ?

Perhaps Gordon Brown just "turned a blind eye" to it.

But whoever sign's off the bloody expenses deserves to be sacked as well, surely claiming for swimming pool cleaning, moats, porn films etc they must know it is not right but still pay it.

There should be a independant comittee where MP's have to put their climas into and provide legitimate receipts, to which they will be signig off and paid if the relevant claim is for something that is correct.

And why do these MP's need 2nd houses ? surely a flat would suffice where they can stay in the evenings before travelling back home at the weekend.

How can they server their constituancy if they are never there to talk to the man  / woman on the street about what he feels the big issue is all about.

Where is Brown's constituancy, does he ever live there or see the people that vote for him ?

Greedy bastards should all be ashamed of themselves, but no they aren't they will just walk away laugh and weather the storm until their next expense claim and do it all over again.

Maybe they should name a few MP's who have completed correct expense claims.

 

'I see no expenses'?

Cameron claimed over £600 "to trim wisteria" on his house.  How fucking big is the house?

Couldn't be bothered to read all of this so it may have already been asked.....but who signs off these expense claims?

I do like Cameron's logic. Its alright to do it and if you're caught then pay it back. And this man wants us to vote for him. in fact, at this moment, they all want us to vote for them.
Voting for any of this lot would make me feel dirty and grubby.

The guy who is in charge of signing off the expenses is a cheating fucktard as well:

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/politics/article3308659.ece (http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/politics/article3308659.ece)

And his boss is...yes, you've guessed...Michael Martin, cunt extraordinaire and the worst Commons Speaker ever known:

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/politics/article6256703.ece (http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/politics/article6256703.ece)

To be fair, I believe his house is "fucking big" based on the fact that he claims £2k a month for the mortgage on it as well.

I somehow doubt the Daily Mail will make this a headline............they are all bastards.

I'm not sure what your point is but if you think the Daily Mail is treating the Tories any differently perhaps you should read this

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1180976/MPs-EXPENSES-Pools-helipads-moats---Tory-squirearchy-welcome-lavish-country-homes.html

Bit different to the Mirror, where surprise surprise it's all Thatcher's fault:

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/columnists/maguire/2009/05/13/expenses-row-house-of-cards-has-collapsed-now-for-a-new-deal-115875-21354914/

Shock horror, it was written by Kevin Maguire, the biggest Labour arse-kisser in the world. And a Northerner to boot. I just want to smash my tv up every time he's on.

MPS.....all robbing bastards.

Daily Mail ....right wing shite.

Mirror...as above but to the left...

I find it sad that people get sucked into the shite they report........my Ex boss could repeat every headline from the Daily Mail for the last 20 years..

At least he was the first to say sorry & tell his party to pay the money back. Labour just kept saying it was within the rules so it's ok.
But if we think this is bad then we shopuld wait for the revelations promised in the next day or two. I suspect this will be Sinn Fein claiming ex's for second homes etc when they don't even attend parliament.
But I suspect even that would pale into insignificance if we ever got to find out about the Brussels gravy train.

In actual fact the whole of the EU budget has for the last god knows how many years been open to & subject to corruption on a massive scale, to the extent that auditors continually refuse to sign the accounts off. Much (48%) of the money disapears into the Common Agricuklrural fund which costs us all.
http://www.democracymovementsurrey.co.uk/dyk_waste.html
My Final rant is about the growth of quangois in the UK under Labour (who promuised in 1997 to cut the number of Quango's). Official figures say the number have risen to just under a thousand a rise of 750 since they got in. The cost to the tax payer is over £80 billion with about the same again coming from levies on industry & business.
Aboltion of this lot would save this country from the national debt crisis!

Yeah, Yeah....

"I know its terrible under the Torys but......under Labour its much much worse!"

All MPs have been ripping off the taxpayer (for years).

How can Cameron be patted on the back for making MPs pay back money.?..if there was no leak he would of done nothing.........

All Parties - All Colours - All Cunts!!

It is the Liberal Democrats who are clearly a disgrace. They can't even fiddle their allowances properly. Biscuits milk, fluffy dusters and chocolate biscuits! DREDGE A FUCKING MOAT YOU AMATEURS.

So what's the solution then  THE FLASH  ?

 :clap: :Ride On Fatbury's Lovestick:

Thats the Question. My options as I see it are:

Don't vote : Not an option for me. Too many have died & in other countries are still doing so, in the past in the fight to get a vote.
Vote Tory : Usually this is what I would vote as their traditional philiosophy most closely matches mine ie. The State should serve the people Not controll the people. Problem is that some of their policies are too much like Labours (eg Europe) & I can't see them being radical enough.
Vote Liberal Dem: After seeing waht they did locally in North Wilts no chance.
Vote UKIP: Is this a wasted vote ? Not for the Euro elections so that will be me I guess, but for Westminster it probably is.
Vote Labour : No chance. They have wrecked this country.

Change the rules on expenses for a start....Cap, cap and cap again...sack a few cunts on the way.

Expose the voting system as the farce that it is...

I will enter a Chimpanzee in my old Manor (Wylye Valley way) as a Tory candidate and piss myself when the fucker wins with a landslide....anything with a Blue Roesette gets the vote there!
"A Labour Chimp would be alot worse!!!!".

This exercise can be repeated in a Labour stronghold with the same result.

Tories will get in next because everybody is pissed off with Labour and need a change (Ala John Major getting the boot) - Tories will claim that everything is in a shit state and will need eight years to put right ( like Labour did) and the whole cycle repeats itself.

Anyone who thinks that they will be better off under a certain banner is fucking deluded.

Give in one hand and taken back with another.......its just the way things are....i accept it...i wish others would.

Flash - that is about the best and truest post on politics that I can ever remember reading on here !!!!

Although it is a shame.........

Not very pro-european union then Phil?

If you think our MP's are bad, the MEP's are worse !!!

Being in the EU costs us billions, yet all it does is bring us more and more red tape. They are the biggest hypocrits also, saying how green they are, but once every fortnight they transfer literally everything from Brussels for a day to Strasbourg, then go back again !!!

The easiest way to save £20bn a year is to get out of the EU !!

And economic output will just completely crash. I know that's not a good analogy at the moment what with a recession and all, but in terms of a stable economy we just wouldn't generate probably half as much GDP if we were to leave the EU.

Absolute rubbish. There is nothing to stop bilateral trade agreements for countries outside of the EU. How do you think the Swiss and Norwegians trade? The amount UK plc would save from binning the massive contributions to a corrupt and wasteful Brussels would be a great boost to the economy.

Ok, maybe not so as dramatic as I put it, but no free movement of labour and more barriers to trade agreements certainly won't help.

And don't get me started on how much we waste on the Common Agricultral Policy which fuels French farmers.

If the current expenses thing has pissed you off then I wouldn't vote for ukip. Didn't they get someone jailed for breaking the law on that?

Our GDP would rise between 2.5% and 3.8% because the trade barriers would go and we would be in the (free) world market. Don't take my word for it, have a long read of this from the Institute of Economic Affairs:

http://www.btinternet.com/~patrick.minford/europe/index.html (http://www.btinternet.com/~patrick.minford/europe/index.html)

Nothing will ever change just getting stressed for fuckall. If you cant change it why bother

This has been flying about.....sums things up nicely....Donuts??

One day a florist goes to a barber for a haircut.   After the cut he asks for his bill and the barber replies, 'I cannot accept money from you.
I am doing community service this week.' The florist is pleased and leaves the shop. When the barber goes to open his shop the next morning there is a 'thank you' card and a dozen roses waiting for him at his door.
Later, a cop comes in for a haircut, and when he tries to pay his bill,the barber again replies, 'I cannot accept money from you. I'm doing community service this week.' The cop is happy and leaves the shop. The next morning when the  barber goes to open up there is a 'thank you' card and a dozen donuts waiting for him at his door.
Later that day, a college professor comes in for a haircut, and when he tries to pay his bill, the barber again says, 'I cannot accept money from you. I'm doing community service this week.' The professor is very happy and leaves the shop. The next morning when the barber opens his shop, there is a 'thank you'  card and a dozen different books, such as 'How to Improve Your Business' and 'Becoming More Successful.'
Then a Member of Parliament comes in for a haircut, and when he goes to pay his bill the barber again replies, 'I cannot accept money from you.  I'm doing community service this week.' The MP is very pleased and leave the shop. The next morning when the barber goes to open up, there are a dozen Members of Parliament  lined up waiting for a free haircut.


 
And that, my friends, illustrates the fundamental difference between the citizens of our country and the Members of Parliament.

Did you not read the thread about cheap booze at the Gorse Hill Somerfield ?

I saw a UKIP ad tonight, what a load of utter shit. I was curious out of ignorance before, but seeing that killed my interest.

Their central argument was the rising cost of landfill. Apparently its a bad thing.