Thetownend.com

Ok I will get the ball rolling, do you believe non - white people should be allowed to live in England.

I do


well..................everybody apart from Mexicans of course

Mex is a racist ... ban him!!!

This is an honest question mex, not having a pop, but what do you plan on achiving form this question? Like i said, its an honest question, not fishing for a bite or anything.

Ironside said he wanted a debate, he has dodged questions before and asked to put all debate in one thread so as not to fuck up the forum, so here you are....

Yes but with caveats.

i did'nt read the thread properly, i read it as being an open question to the whole forum, im understand now, cool.

what caveats?

 We could have saved all this fuss, if my suggestion from 3 years ago had been taken up.

 http://thetownend.com/index.php/topic,9024.0.html

In terms of getting in, I would say these would be appropriate:

1) You apply through the proper channels and don't turn up in the back of a lorry.
2) You are not a criminal.
3) You have a specified, required skill that cannot be filled within the UK. We don't need more unskilled labour.

Oh when you say "non white", do you mean "black"?

Should be the same for any immigrant to any country, as it is with uk citizens applying for NZ or OZ. And the proper channels should include proper vetting, not the target driven shambles that has been rife through the home office for years. (And yes i do have first hand knowledge)

Ok my question to Ironside - was it your dad who told you beating up women was funny?

What the fuck are you talking about?

Only as long as they promise to support the England Cricket team.






Actually, on the basis of recent events in the WIndies that could be classed as torture so we probably can't make that stipulation.

Oh Fuck, that's too hard a question

Well this is going well...

You've got to stay here all night as well to be available to answer questions.

 It's nearly as exciting as the Dave Byrne Q and A session. :)

I have nothing better to do than indulge you lot this evening.

What are you wearing

Well I'm off out, any random TEFers in OT?

If you had a time machine and you went back in time and bummed yourself would that make you gay?

DRS, I'm wearing speedo's and a gimp mask.

Spacey, probably.

I'd still like Red Socks to answer the question: What the fuck are you talking about?

Sorry i posted that on the wrong site

hahaha!

Also having a erm debate with becky2hot 19 from islington

Picture?

 You know that's really Tony Blair?

Of course i do. Ironside no photo i am afraid

Ironside - would you like to repatriate the non whites already in the UK? 

Yes if:

1) They arrived in the back of a lorry. They are illigal (the clue is in the name)
2) They are criminals (either before or since they have arrived)
3) They haven't got a fucking job or they are unskilled. We have too many unskilled people sat on their arses already.

Edit:

3) They haven't got a fucking job or they are unskilled. We have too many unskilled people who were born here sat on their arses already.

I assume that "non whites" is the PC code for "black" then?

I'm not particularly PC so lets say black then for arguments sake. On the basis we accept your 1,2,3 then how about dependents? If a second generation black committed a serious crime would you still accept them in this country or would you want them out?

I'd imagine it also includes Asians oriental and subcontinental, hispanics and anyone else who, as the name suggests, isn't white.

They've got the passport. They get the protection of the law AND the punishment for their crimes.

I'm nipping out for a quick pint and to grab a take-away from the muslim owned take-away over the road but I'll be back in an hour.

Don't go mental in my absence gentlemen.

There is talk of an amnesty for illegals living here to stop them being exploited. Would you agree with this as a one off measure or would you just say tough shit?
Also the Muslim demonstrators in Luton earlier this week - acceptable or not? What action would you have taken, if any?

They have a  right to protest just the are targeting the wrong people. Sorry you wanted ironsides answer

It was during our last "discussion" where you called me a "poofter" and made a "joke" about giving women black eyes, wound me up big time,  tell you what admit you were wrong, that your an ignorant cunt and I'll give £25 to comic relief  - oh, but that goes to black african kids and i guess you want them to all die of AIDS or malaria anyway?  

Right, quickly.

1) The clue is in the name. Illegal, therefore criminal. Deport.

2) Freedon of speech is sacrosanct. It should have been managed better. My head says they should have been able to have their "demo" but they should have been kept well away from the Soldiers.  Their placards should have got them arrested for inciting racial hatred before they started though. I find it ironic that that when the public (which was great to see) told them to fuck off, they hid behind the police.  My heart say's that the CO of 2nd Royal Anglian should have told the lads to fix bayonets and charge.

Back in a bit.

Arm wrestle anyone?

If your not going to be sensible, you can fuck off.

is that your immigration policy?
 

From a previous response, I presume your dividing line for foreign and British (therefore acceptable as I'm also assuming you appear to be ok with a racial difference, just not a nationality difference) is birth.  What happens if the parent (non british immigrant) of a British born child commits a crime, would you deport them?

Also, do you accept a difference between the following:

Immigration - controlled on the basis of at the very least jobs etc
Assylum
Illegal assylum - i.e no real evidence of such

And if you do, do you accept the 1st one will happen in varying numbers both ways dependent on the economy here and elsewhere (we also have migration to other countries), the 2nd can often be a matter of life and death and provding proper EU quotas are used this is acceptable, and the 3rd is the only reason to "send people home".

Redsocks are you a poofter though

Poofter? Is it the 1970's or something?

Do you partake in your own ass being penetrated by men

isn't this all a bit tedious now?

i know all i want/need to know about ironside's political opinions from years of these arguments and all that ever happens is that it descends into personal abuse as people become increasingly inebriated through a combination of blind rage and blind drunkenness

while i'm here - what's your favourite cheese?

Cathedral chedder 2 for 3 quid fucking bargain

Manchego

No, apart from one time in customs.

red socks must have thing for men in uniform

No he was crap, really quick, and he didn't call me after  :eek:

I'd suggest it's probably along these lines:


That's from the BNP constitution - the section on who's allowed to be a member.

So my question is: if you're not a racist, why are you a member of a party who's very constitution is explicitly racist? And was founded by, and for is still led by convicted racists?

If you work on the basis that "blacks" can legally enter the country as they come thruogh the front door etc and that the next generation have the same rights as the average "English" citizen then if you or your kin were attacked by a second generation "black" would you feel any different than if you or your kin were attacked by an "English" person? Shoud the punishments be the same or diffrent?

So Paul, if you are a Communist, do you have to slavishly worship every word in the Communist manifesto? If you are a Swindon fan do you have to slavishly worship everything STFC related. I'm left wing, voted Labour all my life but there are policies they've adopted that I fucking hate but overall I'm Labour. I dare say if you showed that list to your average Communist or BNP member they wouldn't have a fucking clue who most of them were.

I'm not, whatever Ironside may think, but I'd have thought you would generally agree with the core principles of a party you go to the extent of actually joining. And this is a core principle of theirs, the division on grounds of race. And come on, would you join a political party who's leader was a known convicted racist, founded by a convicted violent racist, and who's core leadership included numerous other violent criminals, including terrorists? Wouldn't that give you pause for thought?

Paul, first of all i wasn't calling you a Communist as I realise you are left leaning like I am. What I was trying to say clumsilly is that yes you general beliefs swing that way but you don't have to be 100% that way. Given options 1-5, then your leaning are towards one of the numbers in that they are more representative of your views than the others.
The Labour Party have made a rod for their own back in that it seems the average "white, working  hetersosexual" person is being butt fucked all over the place and is a "cash cow" to all and sundry. The perception of fairness has gone from the average working man to someone who can dsiplay a minority badge of some sort and because we're all too frightened to offend we go along with it to sohw how inclusive we are

Okay I'm just back now and going through these one by one so apologise if I end up repeating myself.

Res Cocks.

See previous posts for on overview on "immigration policy", then go and fuck yourself. You're quite obviously a fucking retard.

You seem to forget that apparantly my knuckles drag along the floor, You have no chance in an arm wrestle.

BINGO! Thats homophobia, violence against women, racism and now the disabled you've had a pop at - you mate are a fucking moron,

look through the posts on these forums and you'll find at least one of those in 90% of posts

I know I said a quick pint and a take-away but it turned out to be 4 pints and 4 chasers and a take-away, so you'll forgive me if it takes a while to digest you question...

1) They are are an imiigrant and they've commited a crime if I read your through some slightly hazey eyes and therefore, they should be deported, We have enoughh of our own criminals without taking on other countries criminals.

2) As I think you're aware, there is no legal requirement under the relavent conventions for the UK to take on "asylum seekers" from anywhere other than the neighbouring countries. Asylum seekers should "seek asylum in the NEAREST safe country" On a practical level however, I accept that we should accept SOME, but not all, "Asylum seekers". They should be made to work however and spend their time doing an fb and dossing on benefits. I will also add that I don't give care if they are a rocket scientist or a bog cleaner, they pay their way or they fuck off.

I don't accept EU jursitication over UK immigration policy if that was the final part of your question (it may or may not be but I got bored with it).

Because if you put their perceived racism aside, they are the party that most closely reflects my views on a great many of the improtant issues that this country faces.

I should also add that I'm a former member and I simply couldn't be arsed to renew my membership.

yeah thats true - most of it light hearted though, i think ironside is more committed to being offensive

I prefer the tasty blue cheeses. There's a good Danish one down the Co-Op, I forget the name.

That's because you're fucking ugly and he was off his face sweetheart.

All British citizens should be afforded the full protection of the law. "race" does not come into it the equation.

Yes, but I'm talking here about your feeling as an individual not the way the legal system handles it. Would you feel wors if a "black" caused harm to you or yor kin than if an "English" person dod so?

I think Ironside's stance is to be applauded to be honest.

Although you may think differently, everybody is allowed their own thoughts, political allegiances and party memberships (even is lapsed) under law.

Even if I, you or next door's dog disagree with him, there's no place for shouting him down just because of what he believes.

The BNP is not illegal and nor should it be made so. When we get to that we surely will be in a true communitarian state.

In my view its not be applauded nor derided. I'd like to understand rather than just slag off because he holds a different view to me. The TEF mafiosa seem quite willing to gang up and shout down anything they dont' agree with and the majority go along with it whilst accusing those who want to try and understand as being receptive to the victim card they perceive as Ironside playing. .

Talk talk - can I say that to fit into the mindset of the TEF I think you are a cunt even though I've never spoken to you or met you.

I would say that is a fair assessment of the ethos.

 :D

That's not to say you are not indeed a cunt but that I can make no objective statement.

Do you think a British Citizen shouldn't be allowed to live overseas, say if they are retiring?

Their "perceived racism" is their sole point. Do you agree with the following statement (again taken from the constitution, in the section headed "Statement of Principles" - ie this is the very core of what the party you wish to be in government stands for):


And from the same section, this is the BNP's policy on immigration. Is it a fair summary of yours?

Oh, cunt it is for sure.

Grade A. Premier, First Class, Top Drawer, erm surprisingly I have run out of superlatives...

He he

My computer fucked up so had to re-start, now eveything is in small writing.

My "feelings" would be exactly the same, irrelivent of the ethnic origin of the perpetrator of the crime.  They are scum who deserve to punished. End of.

That's an interesting get out. As I'm sure you're aware at the last election, the BNP stood on a manifesto of stripping those non-whites that it could not deport of their citizenship - they would be allowed to remain in the country only as "guests". Hence as they would not be citizens they would not be afforded the full protection of the law, under your terms

So not only are you a cunt by your own piss taking definition , but a pretty good one. I am a drunken one.

Provided they are allowed to live there by the local government, are not criminals, illegally living there, can support themselves without drawing on the resources of their host nation and population, there shouldn't be problem should there?

What like all the thugs like Nick griffin employed by hte BNP?

Hope you enjoyed your takeaway, they would be a thing of the past if your mates in the BNP get their way

Hey pretty good cunt or drunken one, they all look and feel good to me.

So by the same token there's no problem with legal immigration to the UK, even for retirees from foreign countries.

I wouldn't feel good to you and I'm a drunken cunt

You can't be that drunk, you have posted some coherent questions and comments.

Can you walk down this straight line?

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

If you are asking me whether the fact that they like their supporters and members to be of a certain "racial" group, is problem then the answer is no.  I don't have a problem with that. It is after all a sign of a multi-cultural society that people of all different races and religions and political viewpoints etc etc are able to come together as a group and are able to fight for their common objectives.  It is absolutely no different to the massive number of organisations that would turn me away away for being a white English christian male,should I try to join them.  So are you suggesting that because the BNP wish to represent a particlar section of the "community" they should be banned? If you are then you should support the banning of ALL organisation that repsresent a particlar race or releigion surely? If not, you are not better than those you condemn.

They are not indiginous, that is fact. That doesn't mean that they shouldn't be here or affordeed the full protection of the law.

Now are you asking me what my opinion is or are you asking what the opinion of the BNP is?

Whitewash, you've completely ducked the section taken from the core principles set out in the party constitution that says the BNP "is wholly opposed to any form of racial
integration between British and non-European peoples." Is that your view?

And I ask again, does the party's stated policy on immigration "It is therefore committed
to stemming and reversing the tide of non-white immigration and to restoring, by
legal changes, negotiation and consent, the overwhelmingly white makeup of the
British population that existed in Britain prior to 1948." represent your view?

This is a bit more than a chum club for nice white lads isn't it?

Coherent - oh bollox - my evenings objectives have not been achieved. I'm off to bed. Cunt - thinking I'm coherrent. Cunt again. And oh yes, to fit in with the TEF mafiosi Ironside you are a cunt also althuogh I will make no attempt to understand you as you are not worrthy of it as I'v e got you prejudged just like we pereceive you to prejudge the "blacks".
I'm fucked.

A serious question - where do you sit with regards to that?

Do you fully support BNP policy or are you on the margins and would like it modified to fit your personal thoughts?

Are you mentally retarded or just born to be a fucking prick?

That's not the party policy though is it? BNP policy is to strip non-whites of citizenship. Do you intend to actually answer any of these questions directly or are you going to duck them all?

You vote for them, you were until recently a member of them and still would be if "you could be arsed", you clearly know a lot about the party and are a strong supporter and advocate of it. So I'm assuming you agree with stated party policy and that you want to see these policies enacted.

oooh the lefties are fighting amongst themselves!

I'm off to be "multi-cultural" with my Carribean neighbours, see you soon....

Good night CS. I will be round with the Panadol at 11:00am.

I think your objectives were achieved admirably  :D

I hope you weren't referring to me as a leftie honey...

xxx

Right so you don't intend to actually answer the questions directly at all and never did. Ducking out with half a dozen vague and evasive answers, ignoring half the questions put, same old duck and weave Nazi as you were last time round when you were asked difficult questions. As I said in the takeaway thread. You threw down the gauntlet and bottled it.

In broad terms I don't have a problem with that OPINION.  It is not a realistic aim though is it? I've already stated that ALL "citizens" should have the full protection of the law irrispective of race.  Is that clear?  I've also stated that I support the BNP because they have a large numebr of policy that most CLOSELY reflect my views on big issues.   Do you see any other party out there proposing any kind of immigration policy, whatsoever?  Do you consider the Tories to be an OPPOSITION?

I've said it before, if the party that most repsresnetd my views was in existence, it would be bearing my name.

This thread is about my personal opinions. Start a thread about the BNP and ask their representatives what their opiniions aree.  I merely agree with a large number of their opnions.

Fair enough, good answer.

Im a little drunk, but can i just put it on the record that my family over the last 10 years has dealt with asylum seekers in swindon, Now on a personal level i have met and befriended these people and have seen and heard first hand the stories they tell me about there lives. stories of persecution, torture and murder of their families and friends. These are good people who when my mother was seriously ill were at the great western, waiting and caring for her. these are good people, end of.

to not allow these people slavation within our shores, a fucking lifeline, is fucking inhumane. its totally fucking unacceptable, fuck economics,. fuck whatever. if people starting giving a shit about their fellow man regardless of skin colour/language/religion. the fucking world would be a happier place.

and i will fight any cunt who disagrees with me :)

ironside, i despise your political views. i think your a poisonous cunt. and no i wouldnt fucking run from you if i met you, i would fucking stand, like ive stood before. ignorance is not a cool thing to be proud of and as the world gets smaller and smaller im hoping above everything that people with views like yours are part of fucking history.

fuck me i just read that back and i sound like a right hippy cunt :)

And everyone was getting on so well!

Thanks for that.  go and plug yourself back in.

Edit:  That's part of teh problem as well. Cunts like that. Believe every fucking sob story that comes their way.  You do realise that the vast majority of "asylum seekers" are fucking lying?

thats a bit harsh

no its not.  If you're going to give it out, you can fucking well take it as well.

No it's not. It's a fucking cop-out. He's actively advocated the BNP for years on here, has in effect acted as their de facto representative, including pushing them on the basis of their policies on race. Then when he's questioned on their core policies on race, he ducks out. In Ironside's ideal world, this rag bag of criminals racists and terrorists would be running this country and enacting these policies, he's either in favour of those policies being enacted, with mass deportations, non-whites being stripped of citizenship and so denied the "full protection of the law" (and God knows what would happen to any non-white stripped of that protection in a BNP Reich) or he's not. This isn't like "I vote Labour/Liberal/Tory but I'm not wild about their child tax credit policy", this is a core part of the BNP platform - they are a fundamentally racist party. And he keeps ducking that question to try and portray them as just like any other political party.

No. That's not true is it. I haven't "actively advocated" them. You are trying to make it appear as if every fucking post of mine has been some kind of fucking propoganda for them. It hasn't. If you think it has then you've got a fucking problem.

Idon't care if they are a fucking "racist party". I couldn't give a fuck. That's not why they get my vote.  People vote for political parties for many different reasons.  They ARE just like any other political party.

Tell me oh righteous one :notworthy: Which party did you vote for at the last election?

It's long been a strategy of neo-Nazis to deny or downplay the Holocaust, the idea being that if they can gain some kind of credence to the idea that the "Holocaust was a myth" they can then somehow rehabilitate the reputation of the Nazis and openly come out to garner support for full-on neo-Nazi movements (as opposed to the kind of "Wolf in sheep's clothing" approach of the BNP). What are your thoughts on Holocaust deniers such as David Irving?

WHO DID YOU VOTE FOR AT THE LAST ELECTION?

That's real life for you. You can't allow every person in the world who's be persecuted or hard done by into this country. It's obvious at current levels the system is already about to burst or burst.

Hopefully PD didn't vote for me at the last General Election. Otherwise Ironside will be after me with a sharpened aubergine.

 Oooh that's me that is...TEF mafiosa, bags I be the Godfather.

 Thing is CS...this stuff goes back a long way, did you see the link to 3 years ago that I posted.

 TBF to Ironside he doesn't push his beliefs in the way he used to on the old thisis, when it was evident he was hoping to do a bit of recruiting to the BNP.

 Back in that 3 year old post, Yeovil got it spot on, there are a number of racists on this site, but they're tolerated, nevertheless it means others will at times wish to put a counter argument.

 

so what do you do? let them die? let them get tortured? I for one could not stand by and let that happen?

I might have been pissed but i stand by my drunken ramblings.

Well people do die oppressed, they do get tortured and being frank it's on such a scale you can't actually do anything about it. The majority of the people over here who claim asylum, I doubt would ever suffer such circumstances anyhow based on the EU definition given to agent of persecution, which is open to much abuse by those who claim refugee status.

With regards to the UK I can see the whole welfare state collapsing in a few years, especially with the economy sinking fast, and the resentment these people will receive will probably be just the same as if they were being persecuted in their own lands.

Nobody want's that to happen. Unfortunately, the system is so weak, dis-jointed and easy to take advantage of that the few genuine ones are joinind by the large majority of piss taking scum who wouldn't get through the door unless the uttered the magic words "asylum".

It's the sytem that is fucked and responsibility falls squarely on the shoulders of the the government, in this case, Labour.  There are no other "mainstream" parties out there that, as far as I know, are proposing any kind of change to the system to strengthen it.  If people think there is too much immigration (of any kind), where do they put their crosses on election day?

I'm off to the boozer.

Feel free to answer the fucking question oh righteous one :notworthy:

You dont have a clue do you? Im hungover as a fucknut so i cant be arsed to argue this, maybe go and watch hotel rwanda and then say the above again?

To be fair, ironside came out of this pretty well

What has that got to do with anything? I doubt there are many Rwandan refugees in this country.

The crust of the matter is that many legitimate refugees will seek a safe haven in the nearest safe country. The majority of claimants we have in this country are economic migrants, who actually damage the claims of legitimate refugees who decide for whatever reason to come to this country over others. It is these economic migrants who I was referring to who will end up being resented when the welfare system goes down and the persecution they receive will be worse as if in there own country, as i doubt they ever got persecuted in the first place.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/manchester/7943556.stm

Davis....?

So there shouldn't be a problem with a foreigner whose retired moving to Britain?

The leeds lads are a tad intelligent arent they..

http://www.network54.com/Forum/283664/message/1236712048/PAKI+CUNTS+DOWN+LUTON

Well I'm sorry Paul, it was fair enough and a good answer. He replied to what I asked him.

I am coming to this thread cold, I haven't read anything Ironside has posted before and I have no preconceived ideas about his opinions. I thought that is what this was about?

Don't shout people down just because you want to put your point over.

And I'm inclined to agree with STFC Dave, he has come out of this rather well tbh, whether you agree with him or not.

Now that I've sobered up with the intention of getting pissed again let me ask three more questions. If any of the main stream parties would implement your proposals around immigration, would you vote for them? Just to try and see if the stereotype works, if someone met you would they describe you as a shaven headed thug? Lastly, do you work -if so without giving too many details away - is your work manual or are you in the Services?
Apoloigies if it seems I'm going on a bit, but instead of just shouting you down, I'd rather establish the actual facts instead of a load of assumptions.

What, only just sobered up?

Fucking feels like it. I can't believe my spelling was OK last night. I was pissed even by my high standards. Started on the Merrydown an hour ago so its getting better.

 

I am shaven headed. Thayt;s because hair doesn't suit me and I'm a tiht cunt. I paid £40  about 10 years ago and have saved myself a grand or more on haircuts.

I would vote conveservative if they impelemented a decent immigration policy and withdrew from the EU now. It's not going to happen though is it. It hasn't looked like it would happen for a decade. They're three strands of the same party. I want the opposition to OPPOSE, not agree with the ruling party.

Oh righteous one :notworthy: you still haven't told the forum where your vote wentat the last general election. Are you avoiding the question incase someone wants to disect YOUR fucking opinion?

Oh, and I'm involved in corporate sales, nationally and internationally Chalkie.

I claimed the dole for about 6 weeks when I was seventeen, other than that, I've paid my dues.

and mex is a fucking blinkered cuntstain. In the nicest possible way...

Lumpy? was that you you?

scum.

So, are these 2 single issues ( immigration , EU ) more important than membership of any political party? Why not UKIP? Also, to answer Pauls question what are you views on Holocaust deniers? Maybe PaulD will answer your question at some stage.  

To be fair to Paul he may well be on his way back from Leeds - which is why he might not have answered....

I have to say in fairness to Ironside I think he has been honest enough on this topic.  He knows I disagree with most of his opinions - and usually tell him so - however I deliberately stayed away from this debate to see what was written - and I have to say fair play....

Although I do have a bit of a problem with your little bit of German - I am not sure "We must Exterminate the Liberals"  is entirely necessary .....

That was me. I thought it sums up a lot of his posts pretty well.

 :-[- fair enough - Apologies from me to Ironside on that then....

Chalkie, a few months ago, the righteous one and his spasctic friends were having a pop at Israel. I defended Israel and Israel's rights. You can look that up. In that thread I said, in response to the same question, that anyone who denies the holocaust happened is deluded.

To put the claims of "holocaust denial" into some kind of context, the people who are being vilified are not questioning the fact that it happened, they are putting forward OPINIONS as to the extent of it.  THey are questioning the readily accepted figure of 6m Jews murdered.  From what I've read of these "holocaust deniers", they seem to be suggesting that 6m people were arbitrarily murdered but they question whether they were all Jews. They seem to be suggesting that several million of the 6m were not Jews but simply enemies of the regime.  I don't know whether they are right or wrong, they're entitled to their opinion, just like the muslim scum who mocked the2nd Royal Anglians.  You have the right to challenge that opinion. They should not be criminalised for that OPINION.  Unfortunately, like the muslims and others, thye Jews are a protected and designat victim group in modern Britain and are therefore afforded "protection" that is above and beyond what is due.

SECTION 2: MEMBERSHIP

       2) The indigenous British ethnic groups deriving from the class of ‘Indigenous Caucasian’ consist of members of: i) The Anglo-Saxon Folk Community; ii) The Celtic Scottish Folk Community; iii) The Scots-Northern Irish Folk Community; iv) The Celtic Welsh Folk Community; v) The Celtic Irish Folk Community; vi) The Celtic Cornish Folk Community; vii) The Anglo-Saxon-Celtic Folk Community; viii) The Celtic-Norse Folk Community; ix) The Anglo-Saxon-Norse Folk Community; x) The Anglo-Saxon-Indigenous European Folk Community; xi) Members of these ethnic groups who reside either within or outside Europe but ethnically derive from them.

I wasn't going to contribute anything to this thread as its just giving a raciest a platform I'm not really interested in providing but I have to say that quote is THE funniest thing I've read this week.

That's got to be THE most long winded way to say "white people" that I've ever seen. What a shame most of the actual definitions would make the average anthropologist or ethnologist piss themselves laughing. "The Celtic Norse folk community" for fuck sake!

Whilst I'm here, interesting that Miss Marple's justification for the racial membership restriction is absolutely fucking identical to that used on the BNP's website, which lists a few dozen BEM organisations and pressure groups, and compares itself to them.

Obviously it skips lightly over the fact that none of those organisations are political parties seeking to elect representatives into local and national seats of government and clearly assumes that it's readership is too stupid to make that distinction for itself. I'm sure the point wasn't lost on you lot though.

The rest of the argument is a bit pointless. The BNP man refuses to defend the most controversial BNP policies, and even talks about "a good multiracial society", the very thing that the party was established to oppose, so I'm not really sure what the purpose of the debate is. I can see the point of taking apart the policies of a political party that has the potential to be a really unpleasant influence on British politics, but I'm not really that interested in just arguing the toss with some sad, lonely, middle-aged racist.

The only thing I can say is that if you don't support the idea of the repatriation of all non-white people living in the UK perhaps it's not a good idea to vote for a party that has that as one of its major policies. (Yes it is still on the website under immigration policy, and Griffin has refused to rule out compulsory repatriation on about half a dozen occasions in the last few years). If you don't want to be described as a nazi then don't join a party who's entire leadership is drawn from people with long histories of involvement in British fascism, and was founded by a bloke who was the deputy leader of Spearhead, a fascist "private army" modelled on the brownshirts.

If you're only going to run away from arguments with the excuse that you don't necessarily agree with party policy then don't mention the shitbags on here again or post any more  links to their fucking website eh?

If you can manage that, I'll accept that you're not an active member of a fascist party, I'll stop making all references to them, stop asking you to justify the more mental master race delusions of that movement and start treating your posts like I do those of the other small minded racists that post on here; i.e. argue the toss when I can be arsed or just call you a racist twat when I can't.

That sound fair enough?

Why do you think that saying something is an OPINION gives it a greater weight as an argument?

Well thank you Sheepshagger. I appreciate the post.

I have been honest from the very start. I asked for this thread. The forum was becoming ridiculous so something had to be done to get it out in the open.  

The German is courtesy of fb and I wouldn't know how to change it.

It simply means that unless you want to get into the realms of vetting peoples thoughts, which I think you'll agree is a severe infringement on anyones civil liberties, it's just that, an opinion. You can agree or disagree but ultimately, it's just an opinion.

Oi, cunt chops, fuck off, you've already said you don't want to fucking "debate" anything with people like me so you're opinion is not welcome here.

I haven't read your post and nor will I.

Ironside, would I be right in saying that you are in fact a traditional right wing conservative (with a small c) - as in the 1960's version - and that with the drift to the centre/left of today's Conservative party you have had no alternative but to tend towards the BNP, even though they may be far right?

I can understand that and I think that is what has pushed a lot of people in their direction. However, I think the chasm between the 60's Conservative party and the BNP is a huge one.

Sorry, three last questions then I'll leave you alone. So, are these 2 single issues ( immigration , EU ) more important than membership of any political party? Why not UKIP? Those 2 I asked previously. The majority of your friends / drinknig buddies, do they hold similar views.
I remember the Israel thread.
I realise I'm doing all the asking here so I'm quite happy to answer any of your questions as well.

But why point out it's an opinion? of course it is, unless someones on a wind up then it goes without saying. Not all opinions are equally valid though, and they're in no way immune to being questioned, shouted down or explained point by point why they're bollocks. So what is the OPINION thing for?

It might be my OPINION that apples are made of cheese, but if that's the case then my OPINION is bollocks in comparison to somebody who knows about biochemistry and the difference in molecular structure of the two substances.

i think how people dfine the words racist or racism is mile apart in alot of cases

Sorry Chalkie, UKIP is a dead duck. They've achieved nothing but seem to be part of the EU gravy train.  I don't even know what they stand for these days.

Politics should be about policy and the implementation of that policy. People will follow the policies that they agree with.

I've bumped into random foreigners (I live in London) and got chatting to them as do when your down the boozer and THEY have said TO ME that they think this country is fucked and then they've proceeded to tell me why.  Low and behold, they have the same opinions as me.  I guess they're just fucking racists.

The point of the thread has been to dispell the myths perpetuated by the righteous one :notworthy: the soon to be cadaver and left wing thug. Ask away.

Because having a fucking opinion is not a fucking crime you fucking dossing, timewasting cunt.

I'm not sure that argument is applicable here Ben.

Opinions are such things like 'I prefer apples to cheese'. 'Apples are made of cheese' is clearly inaccurate. Facts are facts and the two are exclusive.

Politics is very much about opinions. If it was factual then we wouldn't need political parties, MPs or a Government (I'm all for that!)

But why do you need to point out it's an opinion? What fucking else is it going to be?

The whole opinion thing is a pet hate, people seem to love wheeling it out when people disagree with them. There's no law that people can't question your opinion, or even plain state out why they think it's wrong.

Ironside - you've answered the UKIP one and kind of answered the other 2 but in a very general way. Can I pin you down to specific answers?

Okay dosser, your right. David Irvine has a fucking opinion. 99% of people think he's fucking wrong, that's their fucking opinion. Challeng it, question it, don't throw the fucking cunt in prison for for it.

Does it make sense or do you need to get off your lazy fat arse and enter the real fucking world?

I wish - haven't seen 25 in a fucking while.

You said something about being prepared to take it if you dish it out? Well:

A number of prominent members of the BNP have been reported as:
having been convicted of a wide range of offences, including assault, inciting racial hatred, and offences under the Explosives Act (see Tony Lecomber); or  having had previous connections with Ulster loyalist paramilitary organisations, extremist or neo-Nazi groups, or with football violence.

The BNP dismisses these instances as past misdemeanours, however, there are present day criminal charges brought against BNP members, including for assault, racism, and other activities.

While they claim any individuals involved with criminality would be immediately expelled from the BNP, Brian Turner, a Burnley local authority BNP councillor found guilty of attacking his wife and a police officer – has recently been told he will keep his job. Turner was arrested on February 5, 2005 at Cuthbert Street in Burnley, after reports of a domestic violence incident at a house in St Cuthbert Street, Burnley. The court was told at a previous hearing how Turner, who has eleven previous convictions, was aggressive towards the police officer who tried to restrain him, and kicked him in the leg. The party has said it is supporting him and his place on Burnley Borough Council, while opposition councillors repeatedly called for his resignation.

The BNP emphasises that over 20% of the working population has some criminal record or another: however the percentage of elected politicians with criminal records belonging to mainstream political parties, is much lower and many of the offences committed by the BNP are substantially more serious than the offences typically committed by the general population of minor criminals, and that the people named are "leading members" of the BNP.

Tony Lecomber, is a convicted bomber and racist attacker, almost killing a man on the London Underground. He was never expelled from the party, and is now the BNP's national development officer.

Jason Douglas took 10% of the poll on the sprawling Hainault estate in the London Borough of Redbridge on a "law and order" platform, despite the revelation during the campaign that he has football hooligan convictions going back fourteen years.

The BNP argues that it does not and cannot completely vet every single member and that it is impossible to know the proportion of members with a criminal conviction in any party.

Joe Owens, a BNP candidate in Merseyside in 2004, was a close associate of Nick Griffin and acted as his personal bodyguard. Owens was convicted of sending razor-blades to Jewish people in the post during the 1980s, and also had a well-established history of participating in non-political gangland violence in Liverpool over the past three decades, resulting in several convictions. More recently he and BNP youth leader Tony Wentworth were convicted of assaulting several demonstrators at an anti-BNP event in 2003.  Owens quit the party in 2004 after a dispute with Nick Griffin, though Wentworth remains a member, and the leader of the BNP youth movement.

BNP member Simon Sheppard was sentenced to nine months imprisonment at Hull Crown Court on Wednesday 14 June 2000 for the crime of "Publishing or Distributing racially inflammatory material." Sheppard produced and still produces a website entitled "Heretical Press" which dwells at length on his hatred of both Jews and women. Whilst misogyny is the prevalent theme of his website, it was the Holocaust Denial of the site which led to his prosecution. The page remains in existence, containing gloating pictures of Jews in death camps with mocking captions. Sheppard was expelled from the party following his prosecution. He was still a party member however when he helped set up the Redwatch website.

In December, 2004, police arrested Griffin after he was secretly filmed calling Islam "a wicked, vicious faith". In 2005, he was charged with two further charges of incitement to racial hatred, subsequent to secret filming of BNP meetings.

The BNP has throughout its short and bitter history glorified racist attacks. In 1991, the BNP newspaper gloated after several BNP supporters stabbed an African immigrant at London Bridge station. The victim had his “kidney surgically removed”, the paper boasted. In the same year, the BNP leadership whipped up a racist riot in Bermondsey, London, and led an attack on anti-racist protestors against the BNP headquarters in Welling. Thirteen people needed hospital treatment.
In recent times, a member of the BNP, Mark Collett, has been implicated in involvement with the Redwatch website, run by self-identified neo-Nazis linked to Combat eighteen and the National Front, (though Simon Sheppard (see above) was instrumental in setting up the site while still a BNP member.) Redwatch prints the addresses and pictures of left-wing activists and invites its readers to make them "pay for their crimes". Many people featured on the site have been threatened or attacked. One such individual was Liverpool TUC organiser Alec McFadden, who received death threats shortly after his details appeared onsite. At precisely the same time Joe Owens, an offical Merseyside BNP candidate with several convictions for violent offences (see above) began sending him e-mails gloating that he had photographic details of his house, car, and family. The BNP leadership, aware of the damage caused by association of the party with Redwatch, proscribes use of the website by BNP members. Despite this, Collett was seen advocating use of the site in the BBC's The Secret Agent documentary. He remains a BNP member.

In September 2003 the party's annual "Red, White and Blue" social event was marred with violence when recently elected BNP Burnley councillor Luke Smith smashed a bottle in the face of fellow party member Martin Reynolds. Reynolds had to be admitted to casualty and required several stitches. Smith was forced to resign as a councillor.

In August 2005, Ben Boylen, a member of the BNP, was arrested at Dover in Kent for smuggling an Albanian woman and her two children into England. He is thought to have told fellow BNP members that he was arrested for drug smuggling.

BNP member Stuart Kerr was sentenced to twelve years' imprisonment for firebombing an Asian shop in Chichester, Sussex.

Other organisers and candidates for the party with criminal records include Kevin Scott, BNP North-Eastern organiser (assault and threatening behaviour), Warren Bennett, BNP chief steward (football hooliganism), Colin Smith, BNP south-east London organiser (17 convictions for burglary, theft, stealing cars, possession of drugs and assaulting a police officer), and Paul Bennett, BNP council candidate for Barnsley (assaulting a pensioner). All are still currently active in the party.

Your lot seem to dish it out alright, but fuck me you moan when someone gives it back don't you?

Be more specific with your questions please Chalkie. 1), 2) etc.
Ta.

So you admit that your no better than those you condemn that Lumpy?

Edit: And stop copy/paste bullshit from other websites. This is about individuals opinions.

Do you think throwing insults about at people who disagree helps you get your point across better?

I've just read back to see what you were referring to and I getcha.

Wrt to the Holocaust, the numbers of Jews slaughtered must be verifiable in some way or another, i.e. it is a fact. Therefore opinions are just that in this case. As to whether the numbers are accurate or not is another matter, which is more difficult to confirm. It's the same with something like 9/11 I guess and to whether the conspiracy theories (read opinions) are true or not.

Do you think being an arguementative, ignorant little fuckwit makes you sound clever?

Ironside?

Oh, yeah that's about right Al.

That is bollocks

Whether several million people from various "undesirable" groups were exterminated by the nazi's is not the fucking same as a preference for dairy products over fruit!

It's not a question of political opinion it's a question of historical fact.

One opinion is a LIE designed specifically to excuse the nazi's, and the other has the weight of a fucking shit load of historical evidence and eye witness testimony.

Ironside. On a previous thread you said that Abu Qatada should be "tortured to death"
do you mean that? I mean REALY mean that? or was that bullshit?

You also said the same about Jacqui Smith. Do you mean that also?

Who's denying the fucking holocaust here?

Nobody. So what's your fucking point? are you just digging up any old shit you can fucking find, lobbing it in my direction and hoping some of sticks?

And you didn't fucking answer, my fucking question.

1) So, are these 2 single issues ( immigration , EU ) more important than membership of any political party / BNP?
2) The majority of your friends / drinknig buddies, do they hold similar views?

I hate both of them.

No. Although I do like to at least come across as informed. Unless I'm just having a drunken late night fightfight with someone.

How much do your political views define who you are as a person? Could you see yourself being friends with someone who'd be considered as equally far left on the other side of the spectrum?

1) No. These are serious issues that affect every single person living in this country and they deserve to be discussed in a sensible manner without the name calling.

2) No. Some do, some don't. Some agree with certain points, some don't. Some are black, some are white. Some are Christian, some aren't. Some are men, some are women.

Whoa, hold on mate. Calm down.

You have said the same thing that I did. As in discussing the difference between opinion and fact. See my subsequent post.

And to think that I get worked up, eh?

There'd be a lot of red shift to get on the opposite end to Ironside on the spectrum

I've just read through the entire thread and it seems to me both sides are completely avoiding answering each others questions directly, if anything Ironside's trying but he's definitely dodging the ones he doesn't like as well.

Just like proper politicians :)

Shouldn't you all have something more boozy to do on a Saturday?

The night is yet young...with the late opening of many places, there's no real need to go out too early.  Unless you want to get completely lashed up, which believe it or not isn't necessarily the aim of every session.

I wasn't planning to drink having had a fairly consecutive session whilst in Brizzle. But I did have yesterday off, and I'm starting to feel like a few glasses of wine.

Hmmm.

Yes it is Reg.

I'm having a night in with a few Tuborgs after last nights glorious efforts.

I'm only ignoring the ones that don't ask me a direct question about my personal opinion DMR.  

Oh yeah, got any crack?

Loads, want some?

What does she look like?

You have not answered the question. Would you want them REALY "tortured to death"?

I'm no expert but she's a right fitty.

I wouldn't mind seeing Jacqui Smith tortured and I err left of centre...

ironside,i dont think you are racist(well noy in how i'd define the word anyway)
also i think over the next few years more people will come to agree with the majority of your views on what you have posted in this thread.

my question is.do you think you have been misinterpreted on this forum

I would like to see them both dipped in acid to strip the outer layers of skin from their bodies, pushed into a vat of salt and then slowly battered to death with 12 inch rubber cocks.

A stupid question gets a stupid answer.

Ironside:

Do you believe that 2pac is alive as the urban myth goes, or is he actually dead?

You need to make up you fucking mind, because at the moment you're changing the rules every other page and the other dozy fuckers are letting you.

You say you're looking to "dispel some myths" about the BNP one minute, and link to stories about BNP activists, but then you refuse to answer uncomfortable questions about BNP policy and it's fascist leadership and thuggish membership, and claim it's just about your personal opinion.

Either you're a nazi without the balls to stand up for your beliefs, or you're just a sad lonely middle aged racist on an ego trip. Either eway I'm not interested in indulging you any fucking longer, and fuck knows why anybody else is.

My opinion on whether I've been mis-interpreted on this forum is irrelivent Arriba.  

Whether I think that is the case or not, the opinions I've expressed will not be changed by the pathetic attacks I've been subjected to by the righteous brothers.

You can form your own own opinion.

Not exactly endearing yourself to the masses there Lumpy. Just cos people are asking questions doesn't necessarily mean Ironside is being "indulged." Would you like your own thread cos you're a lefty nutjob?

You really are fucking goon aren't you?

Did you read the title of the thread?  Where have I added a fucking link to a fucking story about a fucking BNP activist?  You've fuckiong copied and pasted bollocks from from the UAF fucking website. That's the UAF that are so fucking coinfident that they're fucking right in their OPINIONS that they're fucking willing to stand up and let the fucking public judge their fucking opinions, at the fucking ballot box. ::)

I'm fucking indulging you here you fucking lunatic ranting  cunt. I put myself out to fucking set the fucking record straight and stop you and the rest of the musketeers cock wobblers ruining the fucking forum!

 :flaccid:

And I'll ask you straight you fucking cunt. DMR posted a link to a story which detailed the violent assault inflicted on a member of an opposition political party. Is it right or is it wrong that it happened? It's a ONE WORD ANSWER.

Do you have a problem with interracial relationships?

more or less what i was about to post

Do you think that same sex couples should have the same rights as straight couples?

It's a matter of personal preference.

What rights are you talking about?

Marriage and or the benefits that come with it.



You say this...


But then you've ignored a few people who've been asking you direct questions about the BNP's membership policy amongst other things. Is that because you disagree with these BNP policies?

Homo's should be given the same legal rights as married people in relation to wills, inheritence etc.

You should read the subsequent posts to the one you've highlighted.

Do you think that are circumstances where a British citizen should have his citizenship removed?

Yes. When they came by that citizenship by any method other than birth.

Edit: And have commited a crime, obviously.

What about those who are citizen's by birth but who's parents are immigrants?

If there was such citizenship revoking, then should there be considerations such as length of time they've been a citizen, what their original nationality was and severity of the crime, or would it just be a blanket thing?

Is there any situation where you think a citizenship should be revoked if the person hasn't committed a crime?

I've already answered both of those points in previous posts.

I must have missed them. Can you just do quick answers or quote?

this thread would actually make interesting reading - in fact it has done at times - but the personal abuse is getting dull.

ironside knows my views on the bnp and my wider political opinions as well as i know his, so i'm not going to get involved. it's nice to see some constructive arguments on here for once though.

what about someone who earned citizenship through contributing to the country via a profession over the course of a number of years?

I was just going to post exactly the same!  I am not going to go as far as to give an opinion on my views because I would probably be chewed up and spat out!  But considering the potential volatile nature of the discussion I think there is some constructive stuff on here!

Ironside has obviously got some controversial views but at least his responses are very constructive and precise and for that I congratulate you sir, and all those that are offering the controlled responses!  Just no need for the abuse in between guys!  Everyone surely has their own right to an opinion and it doesn't need the occasional spat of venom.

Just as everybody has a right to say why they think that opinion is rubbish - which is why I get annoyed when people start going "opinion opinion" everywhere as if it makes a difference.

I wouldn't want to get rid of all the abuse. Some are more imaginative than others though.

Good thread.  When I saw it ran to 13 pages, I was expecting something else.  But there's some good constructive posts in here.  I enjoyed reading them.

Like many others on here, I'm no fan of Ironside's politics.  No secret there.  But fair play to him for the way he's handled himself here (mostly).  He's avoided answering a few questions, but he's not the only one to have done that.

There are so many other thoughts that this thread has prompted, but I'm going to wimp out and not post them here because it's Saturday night, Match of the Day is on and I don't want to get in to it.  Night all.

Fair play to the bloke for the thread. Interesting indeed.

I think that he is very restrained. If I was sat behind his keyboard answering questions on my views on the eco-nazis, global warming loonies, supporters of the welfare state, proponents of this government or europhiles I think I would have lost it badly by now.

Well, you know what I am like  :D

Fair enough you cunt! (Not imaginative I know but meh...)

No, as sheepshagger correctly surmised (and I'd have thought a man of your obvious intellect would have worked it out too) on a matchday, I was at the game. Got in around 10.30.

And in answer, to your question. None of your fucking business.

Nick Griffin, the man you think is fit to run the country. That's why I asked. And also why I threw in the reference to David Irving - most would accept he's a Nazi apologist thinly disguised as a historian (including several courts in several different countries, including the UK). Nick Griffin, however, described him as being soft on the question of Holocaust denial for being prepared to accept that as many as a million Jews may have died. Not one for backsliding on his Nazi revisionism is Nick.

So we're agreed it's not me saying it then? Thank fuck about fucking time.  Why has it taken you so fucking long to work out that you'r fucking quoting things at me that other people have said, not things I have said?

And provide some fucking links or should we assume that this is all in your head?

Assuming you're referring to me there as righteous one seems to have become your standard name for me (which is a shame, I quite miss "princess" or whatever it was), you may remember I wasn't having a pop at Israel. In fact, much to my chagrin, you congratulated me for my "sensible views" (or some such) in defending the Israelis' right to defend themselves against the Hamas psychos. I was quite perturbed by it, nearly made me completely change my opinion on Israel altogether.
I'd wholly agree. The difference being I'd tend to regard someone that deluded as not fit to lead a cow to market, much less lead a country. You're voting for his party and advocating that others should do so. Which is where this thread came from.

Because Griffin leads the party you want to vote into government. You want this nutjob to run our country. And the various collection of loons, criminals and terrorists he has around him to be the fucking cabinet. That's the point

Oh....I get it now  ::)

i know this thread is about ironside,but i'm intrigued as to who others would vote for if an election was tomorrow?

I probably wouldn't bother. Got things to do tomorrow.


Edit: If you're really interested in having a discussion about why people will vote for who, then it might be best to start a new thread arriba. It's a bit of a big derail.

I won't vote in a general election again.

1) It's only a sham that we have 'democracy'. We don't. We are just tax farming livestock. Elections are an illusion that we have some sort of influence on the ruling elite. Naaat.
2) The three major parties are three different shades of the same parrot.
3) The state is evil, violent, corrupt and steals from the people in this country who generate the wealth.
4) It makes absolutely zero difference if you vote or not.
5) We are headed for the collapse of society in the west, I will give it about another five years max and that is inevitable, history tells us so.

There is no way that they will ever get elected Paul. I don't know why you get so het up about it?

I'm interested in indulging him as he's been vilified on here. I'd rather find out what he actually believes than what others tell me to believe about him. By giving him a forum then people can make their own minds up rather than be sheep following thsoe who shout loudest. That is unless, of course, people on here are regarded as less intellectual than others and are totally incapable of independent thuoght.
To be totally frank Lumps your attitude and the attitide of certain others is downright dismissive of anyone who does not agree with you. I'm equally sure that when you post your Q&As to Ironside, there are right wing equivalents.
As to Arriba - I'll probably vote Labour again but this will be the hardest choice in my lifetime. At thism oment they are cunts but I could never vote Tory.

ben surely the best thing about this forum is the way topics develop? but as ironside requested this thread specifically to not churn up other  threads your point is valid.

talk talk,nice to see you posting again.i think you are right to a point but cannot help thinking of david icke fromm your post.

It is a problem.

If you listen to any arguments outside of the mainstream, or alternatives that stand up to logical tests, morality and reason and you then take them on board you find that they are horribly offensive to most people who have a vested interest in maintaining their position.

Icke is a step way too far but there are alternatives to the shit we find ourselves in.

Don't be too harsh on lumps. In previous threads which have gone onto a big argument with ironside he's been pretty consistent in his efforts to not only disagree with him, but do a good job of putting some reasoning into why some of Ironey's more offensive opinions are stood in rather flawed ground.

In that vein this thread isn't really ever going to achieve anything, there's no way people should just ignore Ironside's little far right comments he sometimes makes if they disagree with him. I imagine people will stop calling him names when he stops calling everybody who disagrees with him a cunt, "liberal" cunt, :randomsmilie: cunt, or telling reg he hopes that he dies soon.

yeah. Normally I agree. But it's sort of a big question, and probably one which will come up again sooner or later, so seems silly to bury it 15 pages in again.

Hmm, 10 years ago, plenty of equally complacent people would have laughed at the idea of them getting council seats etc. And the German establishment were so complacent that "that ridiculous little man" could ever be anything other than their tool that they gave him the levers of power. They're a poisonous bunch of Nazis and the prospect of them gaining any ground whatever, be it at council level, the Euros is one we ignore at our peril. We each have our own things we choose to get "het up" about - yours is petty squabbles on internet forums, mine is the prospect (however remote) of Nazis making serious headway in this country.

So what about the communist who are in charge now ?

Fuck me Paul that is very dismissive of your average Joe. We live in a democracy. Are you implying that people are so fucking stupid that we're sleepwalking into a nationalist state. If so, then you're making the assumption that the average Joe has lower intellect than you.

yeah, god forgive us for bothering to look after those unable to find a job in these difficult economic times. i'll cancel my jobseekers allowance immediately

“The best argument against democracy is a five minute conversation with the average voter.”

Good point. Statistics are brilliant for large populations but crap for individuals but overall you get the message.

A couple of council seats or a handful of MPs does not make a government majority.

UKIP has exactly one MP and they have been feted for years as being the replacement for traditional conservatism.

55% of the workers in this country are employed by the government. Socialism (whether Labour, Liberal or new Conservative) feeds itself and grows. These people have a vested interest in keeping their jobs and the status quo. They won't vote for the BNP.

Hitler's rise to power was aided and abetted by the conditions that the allies put on Germany after the First World War. That is a completely different situation to the economy and the political landscape in this country.

And please don't belittle my thoughts Paul, it doesn't become you and is not helpful.

This is confusing. It's the lefties rounding on the general public rather than Ironside and co, and Alan seems to be a mish mash of liberalism and facism.

It is like what Johnny Rotten said:

"I have met the man on the street, and he is a cunt"

Carry on.

wasn't that sid vicious?

That's ok, feel free.

Why do you think I should be forced to pay for your benefits under threat of violence if I don't (as in I will end up in prison if I don't pay my taxes)? If that's a moral argument and it is true for all people then there's no reason why if I am out of work I can't come round your parent's house and demand money from them under force of the law.

There are alternatives to the welfare state that involve voluntary action and charity. In fact you might get an inkling of how that works from the Sonic Youth tickets that you probably still have somewhere.

Have you had to eat the SY tickets yet youth?

Maybe it was Sid Vicious then. I really don't know what I know anymore.

errr... i'm not even going to try to respond to that. my new years resolution was to not get angry.

ben - no, i had to burn them to keep warm during the sub zero temperatures earlier this year.

Ha ha ha hahahhah

Funny fucker

That's a shame. You could have used Alan's tax money to make a delicious creamy white wine sauce and had them with bacon and pasta.

Cheers, I try.

Have you checked out Me and Spacey's blog yet Alan? www.dawnofthejed.com

I know you love us.

nah, i prefer to squander his tax money on frivolous things such as car insurance, diesel and various methods of communication which are quite important in being able to look for work and keep in touch with the missus

I need to sort out signing on.

get a fucking job you timewasting cunt...

boooooo, i don't get ironside abuse anymore.

God no. Not fascism.

None of the state methods work very well at all. Mainly because the state is involved and it fucks up everything it touches. Nazism, fascism, communism, socialism. All proved (by history) to be hopeless. The only one that has ever been relatively successful is state capitalism. It's a model that the Chinese have realised provides more tax income - and hence wealthier leaders - than communism, so that's where they are headed.

I'm a libertarian, or to be more precise on the flavour, an anarcho-capitalist. A stateless society and a truly free market is my aim.

Anyway. Enough. See ya, it's been a good day apart from the result at Elland Road.

Haha ace. I wrote out a post saying that Alan is probably a Libertarian with some anarchism, but didn't want to belittle his views.

I did of course go on to say that he probably would like a bit of a strong government to do away with things that he doesn't like so it's probably more Alantarianism. It was that point I decided it was a better idea not to hit submit.

Not this time though!

No, it's dismissive of Alan's complacency. And pointing out that such complacency can be potentially dangerous

by the way, if anyone would like to help me bypass the state welfare system i will accept all financial donations. it'll take me a while to save up to buy another plane ticket

Just responding to your patronising in kind, dearie. Are you going to go all denim rage on me now? :)

hehe denim rage.

I cant believe some people think ironside has come out of this well when he takes the piss out of me for having no kidneys? each to their own though.

Ironside, how do you feel about the eu and its open market policy? Freedom to work and travel in any country within its boundaries?

Fuck me that was some heavy reading for a Sunday morning!

Probably not as heavy as the sessions that fuelled it

We should withdraw from th EU. It's no longer about a common market but is about federalsim. I'm opposed to that.  I could expand but I can't be arsed because that is what it boils down to.

And the kidneys?

I've not once had pop at Mex, insulted him or called him a name.  He's attacked my on many occassions.  Did I hurt his feelings? Well there's only so far you can push someone before they turn around and slap you back. I agree it was harsh, but I'm not going to apologise for it. Perhaps he can view it as an educational experience.

I have read all 17 pages of this and have to say I really enjoyed it. The fact is that nothing is this country will ever really change as those in power be they left or right wing will never take a big step as that would allinate all the middle ground people so things will just rumble on as they have for the past 20 years or so. What really has changes since 1980?

As for Ironsides abuse of Mex that is bang out of order, mex is a really nice bloke. Vile personal abuse has no place I think in a debate whatever the subject. An aplogy would be in order.

As for right wing left wing. My views have changed in the past few months and I have come to the conculsion that it is all bollocks the fact is the world is fucked and we need to worry less about who's in power who's in the cuntry etc and worry more about the fact that soon the world will not be able to support us.

Spot on there GFM....

I can't see if you've answered my question. It may have sounded a bit rhetorical but it wasn't supposed to be.

James, if I wasn't forced to give 70% of my income to the state in income tax, employee's NI, employer's NI, petrol duty, road tax, alcohol duty, tobacco duty, VAT, council tax, insurance purchase tax, etc, etc, for them to piss up against the wall in funding illegal middle east wars, arms manufacturers, countless made up job bureaucrats, a hugely inefficient and wasteful NHS, state indoctrination factories (aka public schools and universities), lining the pockets of corrupt MPs and officials and so on...

...I would happily buy you that plane ticket tomorrow.

i wouldn't

Do you pay employer's NI?

I just want to be mildly pedantic.

I wouldn't worry about it Reg, it's not like you'll be here to see it anyway...

Of course you didn't  you said "go and plug yourself back in" - you thought that he needed extra dialysis, as he'd been on the piss - that's quite caring, sweet in a way.

I don't think there is complacency when it is not a credible outcome. There are far too many vested interests in the powers that be for the lablibcon to ever be ousted. They just won't let it happen and will legislate to keep it that way if necessary, along with whatever dirty tricks they need to back it up. Ye gods, we have the Civil Contingencies Act in place already.

I personally think there is complete complacency about where we are now in terms of sliding into a communitarian society which is much more of a worry. Nobody has really noticed the 3,000 extra laws that have come in over the last ten years, that 80% of our legislation now comes directly from Brussels, that organisations such as Common Purpose are rampant within the public sector and so on.

Yes, as I work as a contractor under an umbrella company I do. It is offset to some extent by tax relief on expenses but I still pay it.

Not mildly pedantic at all  :)

was it Alan who said 55% of workers are employed by the government (I know the BNP think there are too many). I thought there were about 600 thousand (out of a total of about 6 million in the public sector). Oh plus 1.4 million NHS staff

Fair enough. Here's a serious question though - do you think a change in government will change anything?

I don't.

Well that's just a piss poor attitude to have though, isn't it?

What you're effectively saying is that because you don't think anything will change, there's no point in trying.  Might as well just let the cunts carry on fucking up peoples lives and driving the country in to dirt.

To certain extent I can sympathise with that view, but only if you're the type that thinks there's no alternative to voting for LibLabCon.  The fact of the matter is that there are alternatives.

I also PM'd the righteous one to see if he would like to answer any of my questions when I saw him posting earlier this morning. He's posted since I sent that message so guess he genuinely hasn't got pair.

I was referring to taxes. The government, under whichever guise, even BNP, will still tax the bollocks off everything. So don't give me that shit about an alternative to LibLabCon because it's nothing to do with that.

And you still haven't answered my question. Maybe because it's going to make you hypocritical, or perhaps you just haven't seen it.

You didn't mention taxes though, did you.

Some political parties don't actually believe in "big government" like the LibLabCon, so yes its exactly fucking relevant.

The one about foreigners retiring here? I've already answered that question my prvious posts relating to immigration. Maybe should go and read them.

Ironside will be up to 1,000 posts by the end of the day at this rate. I think he is doing a good job to shut most up as well his points are pretty valid as far as I'm concerned. :clap: That is not meant in a nasty way to anyone else.

Should have a separate section on the forum 'Ironisides Question Time'

Ok you dont like The EU because of its federalism but the fact of the matter is we now are now tied economically to it. Therefore as to the second part of the question which you seemed to have dodged under the "dont like any of it" umbrella, what do you think of the freedom of movement and right to work in any country within the union?

The second part of the question has already been answered though, hasn't it.  I talked about "immigration policy" previously. The answer is in there.

where have you talked about freedom of movement within the EU?

Yes to border controls.

You can't have people wandering in anytime they like with no checks in place.

Does it make sense yet?

ok, but does that go for the other way round? there is 750,000 british citizens now living in Spain alone, should they have to come home?

I was replying to and quoting a post about taxes, I thought it was quite clear, I apologise for confusing you. My point regarding political parties is that every Government from hereon will be expected to at least maintain the current levels of service to the general public (which often leaves a lot to be desired according to many). How will the Governement generate this funding? Through the taxation system. Taxes will always be there in some form or guise. Where one falls another one rises.

Regarding your immigration policy, it didn't really mention specifics about retirees. The only reason I was interested is because a lot of Britains decide to move abroad upon retirement, I just wondered if your views afforded this freedom to other foreigners who may wish to retire to the UK.

In terms of what I could find on your views I highlight the following:


and regarding who shouldn't be allowed in:


So it seems on this basis, a retiree, who would not have a job, would not be able to live here, if applying your caveats.

On retired UK ex-pats you gave the following answer:


However, what concerned me was that given your caveats, it appears your views on retired migrants does not tie in with your views of retired ex-pat Britians. I was offering you a chance for you to change my view that you're a hypocrite, a view I have derived from reading this entire thread. Seeing as you keep repeating you've already answered that in previous posts, I assume you are, because I can't see a post to suggest otherwise.

I didn't get a chance to ask the question about Britains who move abroad without a job set up. For instance those who buy a property in Spain and move there on a whim. I assume you'd be ok with this to?

If I have missed a post which may change that viewpoint, please point it out.

For fuck's sake.
That would be matter for the Spanish government quite obviously.

This is true. For example the UK Libertarian party, who are campaigning for a minarchist state (the state is only there for national defence and the police/law and order). They aim for zero income tax/duty/NI and no VAT, just a local sales tax to fund defence and law and order. They don't unfortunately stand a chance of getting into power for the same reasons I gave about the BNP with respect to the lablibcon.

It's a fine idea to aim for low taxes. However, it is somewhat akin to the proposition that if I were a slave owner and fifty years ago I was allowed to beat my slaves once a week but now the accepted situation was that I can beat them once a day you could campaign for going back to the once a week situation. But the slaves are still getting beaten.

The reality is that taxes and governments never get smaller, they always grow to the point that they go bust and collapse. The Greeks, the Romans, the Egyptians, the Ottoman Empire, the Soviet Union and so on. Have you ever heard of a national debt getting smaller? The same laws of bankruptcy apply to states as they do to individuals like you and me. It is inevitable and the west will be next. This global financial crisis is the first major indicator that it is not far away now.

Exatly right Alan and I'm actually quite keen on their (Libertarian) approach to civil liberties too.

Edit: Funninly enough, you mention them. Devil's Kitchen has an interesting post up on his blog.  I don't agree with all his opinions but he does raise some interesting points.

If I find two rats under my garden shed, it's also not a credible outcome that they would completely overrun my house. However between two rats and a whole nest of the fuckers which will eventually intrude into my house, if not overrun it (because I'll get the exterminators out by then) they can cause a lot of damage and nuisance. So I choose to deal with them when there's just the two. If you want to wait until they're running round your lounge, that's your choice. But that's what I'd call complacent - vermin are best culled early before they cause too many problems

As far as I'm aware, you've only asked me one question, on how I voted at the last election. Which I've answered: none of your business

What's your opinion of this oh righteous one:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/manchester/7943556.stm

Come on righteous one, if you've got nothing to hide, you've got nothing to fear right?  You're oh so vocal when someone else is being discussed but silent when asked yourself. Hmmm, maybe you do have something to hide?

I got a joke about two pakistanis going off a bridge in a bmw and the police said it was a shame as its a nice car and actually had 3 spare seats. I laughed a bit, am i racist?

We live in a democracy and if enough people want to vote BNP, Raving Loony Party or Simon Cowell in then they will get in. Regarding people who diometrically oppose your own views as vermin makes you no better than those you oppose. Dismissing their views makes you appear arrogant and assuming the mantle of saving us from ourselves because you know better than anyone else.
I've listend to Ironside's views and opinions and I don't share them. It is very easy to understand, however, that people are increasingly fucked off at the perceived unfairness where the system appears to favour minority groups and middle England is overlooked. People are looking for someone to stand up to them and the mainstream parties are frightened to even raise debates in case they are perceived as racist, homophobic etc.
Thne challenge is not call them vermin and absuse and shout them down at every opportunity - most people left that behind in the playground. It is to understand what they stand for and win the argument. 

i completely agree with you CS.

Calling people vermin who have the free will to join whatever party they choose and to hold whatever opinions they think right is akin to being a Nazi in my book.

What are you going to do with all of the BNP members then Paul? Gas them?

I wonder if there is a greater level of sponging off the state from British born people? I bet there is.

I will add a caveat in that it is perfectly OK to call Scummers and Margaret Thatcher vermin - I know the latter contradicts what I said earlier and is hypocritical.  

Pauld - "I'm right I'm right" shout shout shout "Left wing left wing good good, right wing bad bad bad"

Pauld you haven't come out of this very well. You are in need of a spin doctor. Anyone got max cliffords number?

Max is a bit busy at the moment

he won't be soon

Alan - civil service numbers - what source did you use?
Iron - has Mex plugged himself back in?
GFM - where is your proof that Paul has not come out very well?
fB - I'm happy to fund your 6 months JSA as long as you make me laugh - discuss?

In my experience if you want something changing then get on with it that's why we have elections - union, parish council, local council, national. european even quangos if you can get on them. Yes, you can make a difference if you really want to but it takes a lot of effort. If you don't like it change it, I personally am a libertarian I hate rules - but anarchists would never get in. I abide by the choice of the majority - if something pissed me off enough I'd fight it. That's why we have the political system we have - it's what we want.

I can't remember exactly Ron. It's not civil service as such, rather more the percentage of the working population who are directly reliant upon the state for income or funding (e.g. companies who are solely contracted to the government or their agencies). As in only 45% of people work in the "free" market.

I will have a dig and see if I can find it.

ok doke

Bullshit. Go back and read what I've posted. I've nowhere advocated an explicitly left-wing position, certainly not in this thread, and I'm pretty sure not generally as I don't hold or advocate such views. What I have done is what the purpose of the thread is - to explain why I (and many others) feel the BNP are an inherently racist, Nazi party.

met⋅a⋅phor
 
 /ˈmɛtəˌfɔr, -fər/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [met-uh-fawr, -fer] Show IPA
–noun
1.    a figure of speech in which a term or phrase is applied to something to which it is not literally applicable in order to suggest a resemblance, as in “A mighty fortress is our God.” Compare mixed metaphor, simile (def. 1).
2.    something used, or regarded as being used, to represent something else; emblem; symbol.

No, just not relevant and none of your business. The thread arose because you have chosen repeatedly to reveal your voting preference and that you have gone further and joined the BNP. And I and others have pointed out that someone who actively supports, advocates and joins a Nazi party is fair game to be called a Nazi. You objected to being called a Nazi, hence the thread.

So back on track, in a nutshell, you vote for and joined the BNP even though you know they're racist, even though you think their leader's views are deluded, even though you know that many of their top leaders (who would form the government if they were elected) are racist criminals. But you're not racist because it wasn't the racist aspect that attracted you, it was their policies on immigration which are, erm, explicitly racist. Come on, Ironside, you're obviously reasonably bright, you knew all this, you knew you were backing, joining and actively supporting a racist party - do you really think the rest of us are that thick?

that wasn't the purpose of the thread was it? i tthought it was for ironside to debate and explain his beliefs and opinions

Which arose from a discussion where he got all narked because people were calling him a Nazi. And the fact he's very open about being BNP, and the nature of that party, is more than a little germane to the discussion

Of ffs, you can vote for a party without believing everythnig they say, if what they are saying hits the tick boxes more than the others. Voting BNP does not = Nazi - it may well do but not necessarily. The world has moved on from the 70s when the average NF voter was a nutjob. Because mainsteam politicians continually bottle immigration etc it drives people to seek more radical solutions like the BNP and therin lies the problem. They are no longer excusively nutjobs - some are, some aren't but the main paries are driving relatively sensible people into their hands.
And as for voting for a party with a criminal element then you'd never vote for anyone. Aitken, Archer, Harvey Proctor, Jeremy Thorpe, the labour lord who killed someone whilst engagned in the very important work of texting.

Oh dear, Oh righteous one....

If anyone appears to have a chip on their shoulder, it appears to be you. 

You suond exactly like I imagine a real life Nazi would sound.  Always trying to shout down any opposition.  Always accusing, always attempting be on the moral high ground.

I've actually done my best here to be open and honest about my opinions on what are obviously extremely important issues. People, like Chalkies Shorts, for example have asked questions, I've answered them.  He doesn't agree with them it would appear.  Hey ho, fair enough.

You on the other hand, along with the rest of the Righteous Brothers (Reg the soon to be Cadaver, Lumpy the left wing thug nut job, and Mex bandit) have actually said anything consructive which could well be the reason why you haven't received constructive answers.

What I find most amusing about this is your little absession with the BNP.  It's almost as if you've got a secret fetish for them.  What would you do if the weren't in existince?  Who would be your next target of hatred? Would you be attacking the Green Party for their environmental zealotry?

At best, you're nothing more than hypocrite, at worst you're as bad as the Nazi's ever were.

I think this thread has run it's course so thanks to all the contibutors (well most of you anyway).

Edit: Fair enough Bankok...duly noted.

You have some good arguments Ironside.

But some of your jokes are in very bad taste, we all know the one that I am referring to.

If you want people to listen to your arguments then tone it down a bit, there is a difference between satire and disrespect.

what about me - you fucking cuntbag -I want to be insulted as well - you couldn't answer a question , even if it removed your butt plug and lidocained your rectum

I can confirm I don't agree with you but fair play for putting your views across. I disagree with you but thats as far as it goes. I do not think you are vermin and I don't hate you - I just disagree with you. I have different views and probably always will.

Hmm, pointing out the BNP are Nazis = orchestrated genocide. Think your moral compass needs looking at there. And I still think you're a Nazi.

EDIT: I wasn't trying to be constructive. I'm not looking for some sort of lovey-dovey halfway house with you. I think you're a cunt because of your opinions and I joined the thread to demonstrate why, not to be "constructive".

 One thing's for sure....You've lost That Loving Feeling.

Ironside I have never insulted you personally, i think your views are poisonous as ive stated before, and i took what you said to me earlier in this thread with a pinch of salt all be it pretty vindictive.

I have tried to ask you straight forward questions in this thread, yes i am left wing, however i believe in freedom of speech, something i think you believe in strongly, however my fear is if the BNP got into power that basic freedom of speech for all would be taken away. There is a fear and a well founded fear that when far right parties gain power the shit hits the fan. Im sure you can see that?

The question about the english living abroad, i was wondering how you feel about it personally, i wasnt trying to trap you or anything, im actually quite intrigued. We talk about tougher immigration policies yet there are countless bloody programmes on tv showing us how to live abroad, it seems to me the average person who wants tougher immigration laws wouldnt think twice about living in spain. if you see what im getting at..

Half of them want to move though mex due to our immigration issue

and isnt that the most hypocritical thing fucking ever! we left to become immigrants because we dont like immigrants.

Thats what the EU allows - freedom to live and / or work within its boundaries - hypocricy or not. .

i reckon most people leave because they want warmer weather, is this a more valid reason to move countries than wanting a better standard of living?

Ohhhhh. Warmer weather...

[url width=96 height=110]http://tbn0.google.com/images?q=tbn:cXm845qCXPcK7M:http://www.geekzone.co.nz/imagessubs/a4d5ed9f4988b3692a5ce940b516f57d.jpg[/url]

I've only just understood that.

Brilliant.

Slightly less so if you're 27 and about to die of cancer, I'd have thought.

At least you got a laugh though.  That's the main thing.

Of course you can. I do, so does everyone else. Very few people agree with everything a party they vote for says. But in this instance, we're talking about a party who's core statement of principles as defined by their constitution is racist, whose membership is defined on explicitly racist lines and who's leader (and most of the top officers) are, in your words, "racist nutjobs". Now, for Joe Average who feels let down by the mainstream parties, for precisely the reasons you've outlined, I can see that yeah, sure they might not be aware of that. And so, no I wouldn't call them all Nazis. But Ironside is aware of all that, has defended it in the past, and in this thread, and has said he's not bothered by it?

There's a bit of difference isn't there between the few and far between examples you quote and both the scale and nature of the kind of criminals that are prevalent throughout the BNP. The leader's got a conviction for inciting racial hatred, his former number 2 (who was a paid employee of the party until a couple of years ago when they had to take him off the official payroll due to some embarassment over him being caught out apparently trying to secure "hits" on leading politicians/public figures he regarded as "race traitors" and is still in the inner circle) has a conviction for possesion of explosives, the guy who runs their website is a former(?) terrorist who did time for trying to blow up a black school in South Africa. I could go on - Lumps has already posted plenty of other examples, as have I in other threads discussing this. That's a bit different from Archer, Aitken, Proctor et al. Don't see the Tories letting an ex-terrorist who tried to murder school kids run their website, do you?

Been reading searchlight again Oh Righteous one? That bastion of honesty and trufhfulness run by a convicted criminal and funded by the Labour Party? Not exactly impartial are they and they make it clear what their agenda is.

I wasn't going to comment further but you're just repeating the same old stuff. Carry on Oh Righteous one.  You've come out of this far worse than I could have possibly imagined. Good work!

Easy Paul. I suggest that you don't vote for the BNP at any future election.

I don't think you stand a cat in hell's chance of convincing any of their members to change their minds with an argument that just repetitively says that they are all racists, Nazis and completely wrong. It is water off a duck's back and will just reinforce their views that they are right to think you are a dick.

Give an alternative that can be reasoned and debated or please do me a favour and just shut up.

but there are thugs and racists leading the BNP, all paul has been asking is does Ironside think this is ok to elect these people?

Do you think that Arthur Kemp (BNP Website guy) should be sent back to South Africa as he's not born in Britain and has a criminal past?

Well yes, Ironside must. He has stated that he will vote BNP. I don't think he has said any different has he? They represent his views the closest according to him.

What I am getting to is that ranting about how awful the BNP is (in his opinion) is all well and good but it gets you nowhere. It polarises people even more.

Surely reasonable debate and argument is a better way to suggest alternatives that might convince Ironside to look at different places to put his cross on the ballot paper if that is Paul's aim?

Judging by what I've read thus far. There is no way any genuinely reasonable debate will ever occur within these pages :)

Ha ha ha ha ha

It's a fair point Nellup.

This could easily turn into the longest thread ever!

It is just like an Oxford Fan on the magic roundabout!

Not trying to persuade hardcore BNP members, its pointless. And no it's not my aim to persuade Ironside, lost cause. But as chalkie's pointed out, there's plenty who don't know much about them who do fall for their "we're just an ordinary political party with strong views on immigration" shit and I think it's only fair to point out they're not - they're riddled with violent Nazis from top to bottom. If you know about that and still want to vote for them, well, it's a democracy, it's your choice. But don't vote Nazi out of ignorance just because they've started wearing suits.

Tell me paul, when your mrs is doing up the arse with her strap-on, does she dress up as hitler (She probably already has the moustache) and bum whilst listening to the music of the Waffen SS?

Only curious.

Answer my fucking questions.

You really do have issues, don't you?

What like the one above? Sorry, but I don't see you've asked me any actual questions, just torrents of bile.

I'm not sure that is true to be honest. He seems like a reasoning man who is open to debate to me.

I don't think anybody is not open to sensible argument, unless they are psychotic.

Although his last post might just contradict that view  :D

Who did you vote for it the last election?

What is your view on this:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/manchester/7943556.stm

All posted up before.

tbh, I don't find him bringing my family into it very funny. Any more than I found him making jibes about Mex's dialysis funny or responding to every post Reg makes by wishing him dead funny. There's a line. But it seems you're so keen to be all liberal happy clappy "everyone's entitled to a point of view", you'll forgive this shithead anything.

Answered it. Twice. But as you're obviously hard of reading, here you are for a third time:


Hadn't seen that question. I think it's a bad thing to hit anyone with a hammer.

Have you got any teddy's left to launch?

Jeez, calm down. I was noting the fact that I thought he was reasonable and then he went off on one about the Waffen SS and dildos. I think my comment was more in support of you than him..?

I'm not a catholic priest btw, I do not offer forgiveness. What I am interested in where we are all headed as people rather than name calling (e.g. 'vermin' by you and 'righteous' by Ironside) and unless we take a deep breath, stand back and reassess the way the world is we are going down the Dark Ages route.

I think this thread has now at the stage where it is pointless!

I agree. I'm ignoring it from now on.

Good call!

To sum it up then ironside is being racially abused by paul and lumps who keep calling him a black rat and mex is dyslexic and tragicly reg died

And Talk Talk has risen like Lazarus.

Fuck me. 23 pages of "The thoughts of Chairman Ironside" and anyone that might point out that his "totally valid personal opinions" involve electing vicious fascist thugs who would shut down this website and any other forums for free speech within fucking days of coming to power being slagged off for not being "open minded" enough.

"What do you think about this Ironside?" "What's your opinion of that?" What a bag of shite. Why don't you all just go around there and stroke the mans ego in person? He must have wanked himself dry over this the sad old nazi cunt. Fuck the lot of you, you naive fucking twats.

Uh oh - Lumps in "lets do an Ironside" statement......

If experience in Northern Ireland and Israel/Palestine has taught us anything, it is that engagement is key to the solution of any conflict.

There were many who were outraged when the British Government opened channels of communication with Sinn Fein in the early/mid 1990s.  ('Why should we deal with murderers?' etc.)  I think history has shown that the Government of the day was correct to do so.

However much the views of your opponents disgust you, a refusal to recognise or engage with them will simply mean that you can never be a part of the solution.  Dismissing your opponents as 'vermin' will get you nowhere, as I think this thread demonstrates.

Fuck off lumps you are like a kid who mates would not back him up. You want everyone to agree with you. You are the exact type up cunt i love to wind up

And if the experience of the 1930s has taught us anything, it is that you "engage" with Nazis at your peril. "I have in my hand a piece of paper"? I'm with Churchill on this one (or "that druken warmongering slob" as the BNP's tame bomber Lecomber calls him)

Uh, but the BNP are not in government, have no power and never will do. It's a completely different situation to dealing with the Third Reich. Anyway, Chamberlain was about appeasement, not discussion, debate or reason.

Change a couple of words here and there and that post could have been written by Ironside

PS If Cameron has a brain cell in his head (which I am not convinced about), he will have noted the tendency of right wing conservatives like Ironside drifting off to the far right and between now and June next year - the latest the next GE can be held - he will come up with some cockwaffle promising a 'major review of our immigration policy' and the drifters will happily trot back into the fold. It will have the advantage of boosting his majority no end.

The 'major review' won't happen of course. Manifestos are all written by Enid Blyton and conveniently get forgotten after a party get in.

Seems the immigration debate is not going away

http://www.spectator.co.uk/coffeehouse/3444726/the-tension-over-bj4bw-continues.thtml

Haha Enid Blyton the irony. Didnt her book have gollywogs hanging from trees. Hate that slag

I haven't dismissed anyone as anything. I stopped posting on this thread about 15 pages ago because I got completely pissed off with the way the "debate" was structured.

Mex, naively and mistakenly if you ask me, started this thread in order to get Miss Marple to justify his political allegiances. However for some reason you've all ruled that questions about, and criticisms of, the party he's a member of are in some way out of bounds because he only has to defend his "personal opinions" and not the history and actions of that party.

But Ironside continues to refer to the BNP whenever he likes, advocates voting for them and joining them, links to news stories about them to attack me, but then attacks me if I link to stories about them in my own defence.

So what is the fucking point. A small minded racist bigot gets to have his ego stroked for a couple of days as if his opinion mattered more than anyone elses. There's plenty of small minded bigots that post on this site. A number of which openly admit to being racist and or homophobic. Why haven't they each got a thread of their own where you ask them questions about their personal prejudices?

You all know why. Because they haven't chosen to come onto the site as de facto representatives of fascist political parties. His BNP membership is the only reason this thread was started. It's the only reason most of you are interested in his opinions. But as soon as any question about that party get a little uncomfortable you let him off the hook with the "I don't support that particular policy" excuse.

The party he supports is a pathetic little mob of clueless neo-fascists who stagger from one ill conceived "political theory" to the next with only one common denominator, prejudice and racial hatred.

Griffin himself not so long ago was a part of the "political soldier" movement in the National Front developing with that movement into the International Third Position, all the time advocating a viciously anti-semetic brand of racial hatred, and being prepared to align themselves with anyone that shared that hatred of Jews, (one cover of NF news at that time famously had pictures of Louis Farrakhan, Gaddafi and Ayatollah Khomeini and hailed some mad kind of new alliance of racially separatist nationalist leaders). He's now leader of a party that has changed it's focus of hatred to fit with the nations prevailing racial hate figures, so Judaism is no longer the enemy, but Islam is. Those members of that brave new alliance on the NF news cover are now the biggest threat to civilisation in the world and hated jewish capitalist consipiracy that ruled the world in secret is now forgotton. In fact the BNP will even accept jews into membership. And some idiots with the memories of goldfish have even joined.

They're a bunch of opportunists that prey on the worst tendencies in all of us. Our need for a simple answer to our problems, our prejudices and fears. What they're too stupid to realise is that they're never going to be more than a small but nasty irritant in the future. Facism was used in the past as a bulwark against communism. Fascist partys were encouraged and funded by big business and the state in order to smash the "real" threat of bolshevism. After the lessons of the 1940's it's pretty unlikely that tactic will ever get used again, and with precious little bolshevism on the scene it doesn't really look necessary.

Oh I'm sorry I started talking about the BNP again didn't I. How stupid of me I better stop posting and leave you all to your pointless fucking "debate".

(Incidentally perhaps a few of you should get on U-tube or something and actually watch some political debates because you don't seem to have got the hang of it here.)

Yeah, I was just going to say that. Mine was a bit longer though and it touched upon Time Travel and snake puppets that you make out of socks, but the message was similar.

Look! Me and Miss Marple agree on something! Don't say I never give the twat credit where it's due. He might have a screw lose when it comes to ideas of racial / cultural separation but he's got the EU nailed.

You can also see a Cameron 'reassess our relationship with the EU' fictional promise coming on.

Now that sounds a lot more interesting. Tell more more about the snake sock thing...

Well, If you get an old sock and stick some round coloured stickers on it to represent eyes and cut out a fork tongue shape from paper to put in the mouth, you can make yourself a snake puppet. You can then use the sock to attack people that don't agree with you. It's fine because you can blame the puppet like Rod Hull used to do. So far I've beaten up a couple of young conservatives and an Arsenal fan. It's great! The law can't touch me. However the sock snake has been tagged.

Could you give the snake fangs made out of some small knife blades or shards of jagged metal?

Of course. You may find that the sock snake gets sent down for attacking with blades. Sock snake prison is a hard place. 

Fuck it I can always make another one...

Surely the fact that we didn't engage with the Nazi's in the 1930's is the exact reason we ended up with WW2?  Policy of appeasement and "peace in our time" and all that bollock?

Lumpy, you come across as far more a fucking nut-job than I ever have, you've got fucking problems pal...

who asked you fuck face?

I was talking snake sock puppets here FFS!

Fuck off, this thread belongs to ME!

I thought you were ignoring it?

And that does seem a little bit strange to you :shrug:

I must be psychic (and don't change that to psychotic, fB).

Cameron at a press conference yesterday:


Patently wibble, of course.