Thetownend.com

Luton have got a 10 point deduction for their dodgy dealings, The club could also get a 15 point deduction for leaving administration without a CVA like Leeds did... They are fucked if so...

http://www.lutontown.co.uk/page/NewsDetail/0,,10372~1323675,00.html

buy super sam please maurice.

So does this penalty apply next season then?

Poor Luton. Shows what happens when a team gets promoted before the club is ready.

:cry:

How about the fact the club get a 50k fine when there is noone involved left, and the ex directors behind it get 15k max? where's the reasoning behind that?

Points deduction takes effect start of 2008/09 season

I feel sorry for the Hatters fans and the implications a possible 25 penalty would bring.

But at the end of the dayy they did wrong as a club.

feel for the fan's as they are really the ones being punished, the directors are not at the club now, they could have given them a suspended points deduction.

We should all know what happens when the fa want to make an example of clubs

It was the main story on our local news tonight.

They were talking to the main person who has taken over the club who said how unfair it was, and he readily accepts the football league will give them another 15 point punishment next week so they will be starting next season on -25 points.

He basically asked the fans to rally round the club and give the club their full backing next season.

Is it wrong of me that all I can think of is the County Ground singing Suuuuuuuuuper Super Sam, Super Super Sam, Super Super Sam, Super Sammy Parkin....

Didn't they already have 15 points deducted?

Not yet, that will come next week from the football league.

Although, maybe they did this season as well, if they did then 40 points must be a gutter for the fans!

No they are minus 10 at the moment, the 15 hasn't yet happened

I don't particularly like Luton. Its a shithole with a shithole ground. I@m getting sick and bloody tired though of the average fan paying their hard earned money and being penalised for something they have no control over. Leeds, Rotherham, Bournemouth etc. The bastards in charge at the time should pay very severely for fucking around with peoples lives. Yet they get away pretty scot free. The piece of shit that is Bates is a classic example - slimy teflon fucker. But why should Leeds fans pay for it. To be honest cuts like bates should be hunted down like war criminals and never be allowed to rest until they're cold.

Well said, my sentiments exactly.

What a fantastic post Chalkster!!

Apparently Sam is being touted around the Lge 1 clubs by his agent.  Millwall have been approached.  His preferred destination is the South East apparently.

My sentiments entirely. I dont like Luton in the slightest. But weve had some ding dongs with them in the past. They are good opponents, sort of team you want to beat.

-25 is just pure victiminisation of the supporters. They have nothing to look forward to this season. Points deductions should be capped at -15. Anything more serious a relegation.

Finally. RESIGN SAM PARKIN!

No I'm not, I don't even have an agent!

He played on loan at Millwall before if I remember correctly?
I'd have thought that Fitton would have the sense to see that signing Sam Parkin would sell season tickets. I agree with those who've said not many players can do that, but SSP would be an exception. If he doesn;t get into the team then so be it - once people have bought their tickets they're stuck with them

super sam ain't coming back. fact.

Millwall, as someone else stated.

So let me get this right...you can play an illegal player in the Premiershit, keeping you up, making you £30m in the process,and get away with it, whilst if you pay agents via a holding company you get a 10 point penalty.

Can anyone explain the logic in that?

Luton have been well and truly screwed by the FA, but then again they are not the only small club been screwed this way.

Looks like they are going to end up with minus 30 !!!

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/teams/l/luton_town/7500435.stm

I know they broke the rules but thats a fucking huge amount of points to be deducted, I feel for them and their fans.

wow, harsh.

Holy crap, that's ridiculous. Can see some court action a coming.

That is just madness, they would be better off accepting relegation to BSP now and swap with the team that got beat in the BSP play off final and have a tilt at the bsp this year.

makes me think back to 1990 ,that was a s--t judgement by the football league then and it seems the current lot aren,t much better---w-----s.

Just how would you motivate players/fans if your club starts on -30? That is a club killing deduction - 10 straight wins to get to 0 points... They're haven't the resources of Leeds or the squad.

Parkin, Bell, Spring et al would surely flee as far as humanly possible.

Good luck to them - they might need it!

Yesterday we saw Rooney's agent Paul Stretford given a massive fine and a banned period
from football.It's about time the FA and Football League did this to guilty directors.

I feel sorry for the fans of every club who are dealt with harshly in this manner.It's my
understanding that Bournemouth are going to be hit with minus 15 very shortly.FL just
waiting for the paperwork.

Luton will probably suffer with attendances as well,because some fans won't go considering
relegation a foregone conlusion.So they're hit financially as well.

The reason that this all came about, isn't actually because of Leeds,although Bates contributed
massively to the harder line.It came about because of Leicester and Ipswich clearing all debts
20 - 30 million in an instant.

It just shows how close to the mark we came last year.

Shit, wankers.
We can swear.

I really feel for their fans, but the punishment is only partially for the dodgy money deals (which were worth more than any dodgy deals we did), the rest is for the same reason as Leeds, basically getting around the league insolvency rules.  Football is a priveleged business.  In other walks of life a company up shit creak loses it's customers so it's much more risky and painful to recreate the business from scratch but taking on the name.  In football the customers stay loyal and you get the benefit of Liquidation and trading under a new company without the pain - hence the reason for the rules to stop another Leicester.  It's a fairness issue.  Why should clubs who stick to budgets have no advantage over those who don't.  If we'd been deducted points, it would not be the League fault, it would have been our owners.

this is disgraceful victimisation of a club in no position to defend itself.

Its all gone far too far.

http://photos-h.ak.facebook.com/photos-ak-sf2p/v283/49/99/512030051/n512030051_3497079_6507.jpg

It just makes you appreciate Andrew Fitton and the Consortium so much more.

How come they got done 20 points whereas leeds only got 15 then?

What were you clicking on Bradford and Darlington for? Traitor.

Yes... Traitor. I look at most articles to be honest.

Crazy punishment, 30 pts down barely makes it worth Luton turning up next season.  Wonder how the people who have bought season tickets feel.  Yet again board room shenanigans fuck over the fans. 

except Shrewsbury, no-one reads that.

3 times in administration and breaking football league regulations regarding agents which is effectively cheating was always going to result in severe sanctions. Yes its unfair on the fans but any other business would have been liquidated long before 3 periods of administration, they'll live to fight again so in a way they are lucky............whereas we are extremely lucky that we got sorted out when we did.

I think what will grate with a lot of people regarding this judgment is that perpetrators of the crimes are effectively getting away unpunished. Clearly Luton are guilty of breaking the rules on two counts, for which they have been severely punished, but that punishment will only impact their supporters, their new owners and the players, all of whom are innocent parties in the matter.

It is about time that the FA and FL look long and hard about ways to punish such perpetrators who fuck off and leave the clubs in shit street in their wake.

I shall be watching Luton's season with interest, and I really hope from a football perspective, that they save themselves on the field, despite the stupidly tall order they have.

As Gazza said above, thank fuck for Mr Fitton's intervention. This could so easily have been us.

And who stands to benefit most from it all?

MKfuckingDons.

what odds can you get on Luton staying up?

ps. lets sign Parkin

Whatever they are it might be worth a punt, Bournemouth are likely to get points deducted too.

Are Rotherham flirting with a punishment aswell?

Bournemouth will get penalised - If both Bournemouth and Luton left the Football League, it would be odd.

The last i heard was that Rotherham aren't playing at Millmoor this season.Instead they're

having to play at Sheffield's Don Valley Stadium.This has come about because of their former

chairman still owning Millmoor and a disupute between himself, the club and the current board.

Shades of Brighton and the problems they've had.

So they have been told to accept the 20 point deduction without appeal to be allowed into the FL next season, they have also been told to pay unsecured creditors 16p in the £.

Surely it is not the FL's place to get involved in financial matters, I can understand them being punished for exiting admin without a CVA, but a 30 point deduction...as has been said they may as well put them in the conf where at least they will have a chance to get back, as it stands it wil lbe at least 2 years until they are able to compete properly in the FL.

You have to feel for the fan's though as they are being punished as well, and with no right of appeal as well is just wrong.

The thing is Rich I think this has been on the cards for a while, in terms of well established clubs struggling to keep their football league status.  There are many well run non-league clubs on the up, and many badly run FL clubs on their way down.  Give it 20 years or so and the league could look very different from today.  Which is a shame for traditionalists i suppose but it's survival of the fitness now, not like before when votes could keep you in the league.

For ages the Football League have been looking for a scapegoat to make an example of. They tried it with Leeds but they kicked up a stink so now it looks like they're doing it with Luton. And they'll keep doing it until someone goes bust, just to prove the point.

That could so easily have been us with Diamandis playing russian Roulette with our club. I personally think that the FL should introduce a new rule which is that anyone wishing to be a director of, or run a league club should place a bond with the league, with interest payable. The bond could only be got back after  a year or two of leaving the club. Most directors could afford this particularly if interest were paid on the bond, but the main thing would be that the FL would have the means to punish those who commit the crimes/ breaches not the fans. It would also discourage chancers like our previous esteemed financial genius from dipping their snout into football.

I think if I was a Luton director I might be tempted to have a chat with the BSP and see if they'd look favourably on giving the club a place if they resigned from the league. A season in non-league fighting for a title is bound to be better for attendances than a season of scrapping for survival with a huge deficit to make up

How would they do that though? A team would have to be kicked out of the BSP to make room, which won't happen.

its is a bit funny seing how different peoples reactions are to lutons deduction as opposed to leeds'

Cause if they resigned from the 4th either one of the relegated teams would be retained or the 3rd placed side in the BSP would get promoted to fill the space. Dingbat.

That's because Ken Bates tried to get away with any point deduction except for the 10 points which they got when they were already relegated, but thanks to HMRC, they had to accept a 15 point penalty (eventually), despite offering originally only 1p in the £.

Luton were on the verge on going bust, and now they've got a bigger penalty than Leeds, which to me is a joke.

totally agree.

as soon as i saw this story i thought to myself that this could quite easily have been us - terrifying isn't it?

the FL are punishing the fans not the individual's responsible for the mess they left behind. it appears that accountability is an irrelevence, drag a club into the mire then walk away when the shit hits the fan(s).

and yes let's sign sammy

The FL have told them they have to put up a £750,000 bond to play at the new ground next season, not sure why, assume it is to ensure they complete the season there, have they go that sort of spare cash though, can't see many teams having it

Hmmm - I wouldn't know, that's a lot of dosh, it would have buggered us and I know they had problems behind-the-scenes. Although that's the reason they've had to go to Sheffield in the first place.

Would this be the "Golden share" that all clubs have to have to assure that they can play
each season?

Such a close escape for us.

Chris Perry thinks it will be a miracle for them to stay up and i totally agree. Not sure about signing Sammy P but would take Sol back.

Anyhow itll be interesting playing this on FM next season when its released. That will be a challenge..

What about Matthew Spring? Central midfielder with loads of experience

Luton have some players that could do well at Swindon - Lewis Emmanuel is a left sided defender isn't he? He's a players who's young but has almost 200 league games. Then, of course, there's Parkin, Spring, Bell, Davis and Keane.

Can they afford these players or will Luton be trying to get the biggest possible fees for them.

They're not gunna do that now are they...with the fixtures already released, and the new season about to start. Dingbat.

I thought Bell had left?

Keane is a good player on FM so lets sign him up!

Good call Rich,they definately have some players worth looking at.

No I don't think it is anything to do with that, more details here:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/teams/r/rotherham_utd/7502283.stm

Looks like it is payable only if they don't move back to Rotherham within 4 years, although when it has to be paid they don't know, I assume it is to stop them doing a Franchise (although different situation) - but they may have points deducted yet though as well....

Some of League Two's perennial strugglers must be sleeping well at the moment. Until there time comes.

So if Luton now went bust before the season begins you're trying to tell me that the BSP would say "no you're alright none of our clubs can possibly fill that available position in the league 'cause we've already printed out the fixture list"

Besides it wasn't meant to be a practical suggested course of action, I'm assuming the Luton Board have better things to do than trawl through this bollocks. I just couldn't understand how someone couldn't grasp that if a club left D4 to join the BSP then there'd be a place in D4 for a BSP club, rather than an overcrowded BSP league table.

The people who run the BSP and BSS/BSN divisions are even harsher on clubs than the FL - if Luton had been in the BSP when all this happened then they'd have been kicked out of the league (ala Halifax etc) so even with a 30 point deduction, at least they have a season to try and get their accounts in order before the inevitable fall out of the league!  If they don't, then next season they could be playing in the Rymans League Premier!

As someone posted further up - it makes you realise how lucky we were with Mr Fitton coming along when he did!

This is the latest explanation from Mawhinney.According to Pleat they've got an appeal
lodged for tuesday.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/football/article4319270.ece

This is being reported today(tues) in the media.

The last para is interesting, because it makes you feel that appeals panel minds are already made up.



Luton whistle-blower was not club official

Governing body will spell out why League Two club were shown no leniency when appeal hearing gets under way.
The FA will argue that it was right to deny Luton Town leniency when it charged the Coca-Cola League Two club with misconduct and imposed a ten-point penalty because the whistle-blower on their illegal payments to agents was not a club official.

At an appeal hearing that begins today, the governing body will also suggest that the ten-point deduction should be viewed separately from the 20-point penalty handed out to Luton by the Football League.

Cherry Newbery, the club secretary at the time, was the employee who drew attention to the directors who were paying agents through a holding company, rather than from the club's bank account. Luton adopted this method because Mike Newell, the manager at the time, did not like paying agents for deals.

The club had expected that the FA would take this, and their full co-operation during the inquiry, into account when it passed judgment. The FA, however, will argue that the club broke its rules and that Newbery, as a secretary, cannot be viewed as a club official.


FA asked to rethink Luton penalty

At today's appeal, Luton will counter that this is not relevant because she was an employee at the club. Some in the game feel that the FA's decision could deter whistle-blowers in future.

The FA will claim that Luton's punishment should be viewed in isolation from the 20-point deduction by the Football League for not being able to meet the League's insolvency rules to exit administration. The FA will contend that its penalty was known when the Football League adjudicated on Luton last week, and that the League could have taken into account the cumulative effect of the two points deductions. As it stands, Luton will start next season on minus 30 points.

Luton have received the written support of several former high-ranking FA officials, but the governing body has said that these letters will not be taken into account by the panel today, which will be made up of a QC, an FA councillor and someone formerly associated with the game. The panel is expected to announce its decision today.

http://www.rotherhamunited-mad.co.uk/news/loadnews.asp?cid=TMNW&id=397754 (http://www.rotherhamunited-mad.co.uk/news/loadnews.asp?cid=TMNW&id=397754)

Not sure how accurate this is, but Rotherham's attempt to agree a CVA has been rejected.

Seems likely that they'll suffer a penalty too.

No news on Bournemouth yet.

Kind of takes your breath away doesn't it?

Very easily could have been us.

The think the 23 other members of League 2 should back Lu'on here and ask the FL to reduce their punishment, this is a sport after all, and the FL's treatment of Lu'on is very sportsmanlike.

I think at last Vote the CVA was deferred for Bournemouth as it was voted against by the FL & a small creditor as they hadn't filled in all the paperwork for the FL...or something simular to this, can't remember where I read it now

Shame Luton failed in their appeal over the 10 points. Are they appealing the 20 as well?

---
Also, and yes I didn't dream it, Arsenal are charging £925, apparently it is "good value" despite being £200 more than the next most expensive (Liverpool).

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/teams/a/arsenal/7506193.stm

They are not allowed to appeal the 20 points deduction, accept it and the fine or be kicked out of the FL basically

That's what they said to Leeds too, in fact it was said that Leeds signed an agreement not to take further acation.

But then they threatened court action before accepting an independent review.

I guess in view of the result of the Leeds review the only options for Luton are to bend over and take it up the shitter or to bring a court case against the FL.