Thetownend.com

Right if the Inland Revenue (HMRC) issue a winding up order then as we all know we are up the creek without a paddle and out of buisness as soon as it get's to court

But to protect the club do they have to enter administration before that is issued or can it be done after ?

I know all the arguments about entering admin an unprecentented 3rd time and question marks over if a court would actually let us due to the CVA failure or just forclose on the club due to there being no hope, or even if the league would sanction this.

Just wondering how it all works, either way at the moment the future is very bleak

75% of the creditors would have to agree to another CVA.

As one of the biggest ones is HMRC, I really can't see that, can you? Seeing as Androniku has in reality spectacularly failed the current one.

If they lodge a Winding Up Petition then they are deadly serious about putting the club into liquidation.

Yes, I think it would be a winding up exercise.. In that senario tho' the creditors would be looking to salvage something so the liquidator could sell the club as a going concern. Not sure if the Fotball League would allow this, but for sure the Wills would lose big tim. The only person I can see who has everything to gain by all of this & nothing to lose is Mikey D

Yep understand that was just trying to get all the scenarios straight in my head

Is that 75% of all the creditors, or are some creditors "worth more" than others.

I think it is worked out on how much money you owe them Dave  :?  Im a bit thick with this thing so someone correct me if im wrong.

Ah ok, thanks, i thought it would be something like that.

We fucked :(

No, he can't. Once the Winding Up Order has been passed by the court then the Official Receiver takes charge. He will appoint the Liquidator who will then investigate and ultimately wind the company up.

A liquidator can keep the company trading if there is any prospect of generating further profit to pay more debts but eventually he will put it out of its misery.

Once the WUO is granted it's all over.

The only opportunity for pulling a business back from the brink is when the Winding Up Petition is with the court for consideration. The judge can stay (postpone) it for further consideration. If there are any offers on the table that might mean that the petitioner could realise their debt then they would be considered. If it is viable then the judge can also deny the WUP.

All creditors on the purchase ledger, plus any balance sheet debts like  government agencies - HMRC etc.

This is a bit more complicated than it looks. Creditors can take the club into administration in two ways:

1. Any creditors who have a secured debt, bank loans etc can probably apply to put the club into Administrative Receivership where THEY get to appoint the administrator with the express intention of recovering THEIR debt.

However, I'm not sure we have any creditors which fall into this category that aren't on the board (apart from possibly St Modwens and their debt isn't due until next year).

2. They can make a court application to take the club into Administration. In this case the Administrators duty is not only to get the best deal for the creditors but to try to get the company trading again. I'm also not sure in this case who gets to appoint the administrators. What I've read suggests it's the courts which means that the creditors risk the appointment of the previous Administrators who they might not have too much confidence in. With that being the case I'm not sure whether there will be much appetite amongst the creditors for this option.

In addition a creditor can apply for a winding up order to liquidate the company. In this case the official receiver will call a creditors meeting to appoint a insolvency practitioner as Liquidator. The liquidator's role is "to realise the company's assets, pay the fees and charges arising from the liquidation and share out any remaining funds to the creditors."

There doesn't seem to be any room for sale as a going concern under this option once the liqidators are appointed.

Looking at that it's a bit scarey.

Admistrative Receivership and court directed administration look like the only optioins that would allow the club to be taken out of the hands of the board and their tame administrators and sold off to the best benefit of the creditors and the club, rather than to line their own pockets. But:

Administrative Receivership seems out because I don't think there's a creditor out there with a secured loan to pull in

Court directed Administration might not look too attractive to the creditors IF they don't get much control over the appointment of the administrator. The likes of the Revenue and the council have been through administration with this lot a couple of times and been screwed each time, I can't see they'll fancy it again.

The only thing that gives me a vague hope is that the creditors will realise there are no substantial assets to be divided up if they go for liquidation.

But the prospects still look a bit shit to me.

No court in the land would allow the club to go into administration under the current board/owners, not least because the judge who granted the last administration order explicitly said (and put it on the record) that it would not be allowed. There is a chance that new owners could put the company into administration, but even then they would have to provide extremely good evidence that they were able to turn the business round to the benefit of creditors and that this wouldn't simply be an excuse to rack up even larger debts for another few years. I wouldn't get your hopes up in that direction tbh.

I don't know much about these things at all, but common sense would say that at some stage a judge or someone would say, hang on, we can get these debts paid, by selling to the fans Consortium & ignoring the "connected creditors" Then order that it is done. The key question to me if that were the case is would the "connected" (Wills) debts be included, or would they be excluded. AND has the money lent to the club actually come from the Wills anyway, or from some third party lender with the Wills just providing the collateral/ security for the loan(s)

If I might add  "by value", rather than numbers of creditors, but I'm sure you meant that anyway Talk Talk

So am I right in thinking that, unless the BEST consortium lot are ompletely  barking mad and go through with this deal, we're fucked?

I can't see a way in which the club can be saved through any other mechanism?

Which Division of the Wiltshire League do you think we might be able to get a place in? Start in Wilts League Div 2 and it's a minimum of 9 years before we can get league status back, assuming nearly a decade of back to back promotions.

Supermarine are starting to look an attractive proposition.

Supermarine could do rather well off the back of this.  Although that would mean indulging Cliff 'Nodding Horse' Puffett.

In a true 'Danger, Danger Will Robinson' Lost in Space style rant who is likely to 'pull the plug' first?

Under the CVA..
HMRC
The Council
Creditor X
or
The Inland Revenue
The football League
St Modwen (due in 2008)
Bill Power (Court Case Pending)

Am I right in thinking if it’s one of the CVA crew that apply for the winding up order then it’s deemed as failed and the whole shebang becomes repayable?

Presumably Bill’s loan was unsecured so the scenario of him putting the club into Administrative Receivership is also out of the question?  

http://msnbcmedia3.msn.com/j/msnbc/Components/Photos/060421/060421_lostinspace_vmed_3p.widec.jpg

There's questions about whether Bill's "loan" is even a loan so there's no frigging way it's secured in any way