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Title: This is worrying... Post by: Tails on Thursday, June 7, 2007, 10:34:09 http://www.gazetteandherald.co.uk/display.var.1454063.0..php
Quote THE FANS consortium takeover of Swindon Town could be on the verge of collapse over the £1.2 million "loan" Bill Power invested last year. The group and the League One club are at a crucial stage in the negotiations but neither will back down in their views over the cash. Town insist Power's money was for shares in the club, but he says it was a loan to pay off some existing debts. The Robins have now been given a deadline by the consortium and 53-year-old is prepared to go to court to claim his money back. Power said: "They have got one option, either agree it is a loan, or the club will go bankrupt. "They know what the deadline is and if they don't meet it or come up with a reasonable answer then we will quickly take other action. advertisement"If we go to court it is over and I will be wanting the money back as well as interest. The club would be having to pay for lawyers, which would take more money from them." Power invested the cash last May but denies they are shares, and believes it would be in the best interests of the club to agree to his terms. He said: "The money will be going back into buying the club anyway. I have never signed anything. "All I want them to say is that it was a loan and then we can carry on. "It is the 11th hour, they have got to make a decision. Once they say it is A then it will be plan B for me." Power says he is prepared to walk away unless the club give him assurances they are receptive to the takeover bid. He said: "I get calls from QPR (where he was chairman) every day asking me to help and if they don't want me I will go somewhere else. "We have got to come to an agreement and once we do, we can move forward." The club were contacted but claimed they were unable to comment on the issue. Title: This is worrying... Post by: Richard4acre on Thursday, June 7, 2007, 10:36:11 One wuld assume Mr Power's patience is waring thin?
Title: This is worrying... Post by: dogs on Thursday, June 7, 2007, 10:37:54 Seems as if they are just forcing the clubs hand after the club taking the piss over the amount time to get a response. Power must know that he would win the case if it went to court, and presumably the board know this and couldn't afford to risk losing.
Title: This is worrying... Post by: Bob's Orange on Thursday, June 7, 2007, 10:38:04 Quote from: "Richard4acre" One wuld assume Mr Power's patience is waring thin? And with good reason, this has dragged on for ages! If I had invested 1.2 million of my hard earned I would be the same! Title: This is worrying... Post by: Batch on Thursday, June 7, 2007, 10:38:30 I'd say that the impasse can't go on forever and that if they won't play ball then there isn't much option.
Applying this pressure will bring it to a head. Title: This is worrying... Post by: Richard4acre on Thursday, June 7, 2007, 10:40:40 £1.2 million worth of Share capital, regardless of the premium attatched would surely be a large proportion of a club our size?!? How much would he need to gaurentee a compulsory takeover Glazer style? So regardless of whether its loan or share capital one would assume the board of STFC are fucked?
Come to think of it, anyone know who our shareholders are, and what their stakes are? Title: This is worrying... Post by: Ardiles on Thursday, June 7, 2007, 10:43:08 It also means that if the 'mystery investor’ does exist (let’s indulge them for a second) and produces £x million to invest, Bill is effectively claiming the first £1.2m of that cash. Puts a serious dampener on the board’s ‘it’s all OK, we have an investor’ line. Very clever timing, if you ask me.
The club does not have the resources to fight this. I’m sure they will try to portray this as Big Bad Bill is only in it for the money, but I’m delighted that, at last, things are coming to a head. Title: This is worrying... Post by: Batch on Thursday, June 7, 2007, 10:43:19 I'm not 100% but I don't think compulsory takeovers can happen to a private limited company.
Title: This is worrying... Post by: STFC Bart on Thursday, June 7, 2007, 10:44:04 Dont blame BP. This messing around has gone on long enough
Title: This is worrying... Post by: Panda Paws on Thursday, June 7, 2007, 10:44:20 Quote from: "Richard4acre" £1.2 million worth of Share capital, regardless of the premium attatched would surely be a large proportion of a club our size?!? How much would he need to gaurentee a compulsory takeover Glazer style? So regardless of whether its loan or share capital one would assume the board of STFC are fucked? Come to think of it, anyone know who our shareholders are, and what their stakes are? If it were a PLC the trigger is 75% ... but we're not, Swindon's a limited company meaning it's not governed by the same rules and, IIRC, a takeover cannot be triggered in this way. Title: This is worrying... Post by: Richard4acre on Thursday, June 7, 2007, 10:45:08 I'm not that far advanced in my accounting training and don't even know where that falls in it, so i like to picj up what i can from you guys, granted i need to take some things with a pinch of salt or maybe sauce ha ha
Title: This is worrying... Post by: Give us an S on Thursday, June 7, 2007, 10:57:53 I look forward to another club statement shortly. Perhaps tomorrow on statement Friday?
Title: This is worrying... Post by: Frigby Daser on Thursday, June 7, 2007, 11:08:33 The interest alone will be more than the entire Kingwood donation over the next 5 years.
The board are buggered. They've nowhere to turn. Any 'investor' will only put money into the cub on the basis that there isn't any pending litigation - and that any that is is fully disclosed - full details. If nothing was ever signed, then the investor cannot be sure that the club won't have to give the money back, and would be plain stupid to invest to cover cost in a loss-making business. Of course the board will no doubt use the claim that BP hasn't got the interests of the club at heart to sway opinion against him. Legally, thats irrelevant. But hopefully Mr Cryer will remember back to a very similar scenario when Messrs Carson, Wills et al jumped back in, threatening legal action in order to reclaim their monies. I'm sure Peter Rowe will fill us in. For the first time, I honestly cannot see what option the club has. BP has an axe over their head, and thousands of fans behind him. Title: This is worrying... Post by: Arriba on Thursday, June 7, 2007, 11:21:30 if power walks away like he has threatend,and demands his money as he seems entititled to.then stfc will be fucked!
there will be no consortium,and another massive debt to add to the others for the current board. hope the board fuck off sharpish(though unlikely)or it could get alot nastier yet Title: This is worrying... Post by: sonic youth on Thursday, June 7, 2007, 11:29:16 if it's going to get legal, then get the fuck on with it and cut out the media bullshit - this will be countered by a statement from the board and the consortium are probably going to look like mugs. again.
slightly concerned at his threat to pull out - why would the board be worried if he pulled out? Title: This is worrying... Post by: RobertT on Thursday, June 7, 2007, 11:32:34 By threatening to pull out he essentially puts an end date on everything. It says that if they do continue to stall then the only option he'll give them is to pay him £1.2m on demand. The club clearly will not have £1.2m plus £900k for the CVA now due in 3 weeks just sitting around in a bank account. So they now have a quick series of decisions to make as opposed to continuing the current strategy.
It mentions in the article about a deadline being given to the club, I;m guessing the bit in the paper is just reporting on what has already happened behind the scenes. Title: This is worrying... Post by: Arriba on Thursday, June 7, 2007, 11:32:49 dunno sonic.but i and everyone backing the consortium would.hope its just threats as he'd make the consortium look like cunts if he did
Title: This is worrying... Post by: Dazzza on Thursday, June 7, 2007, 11:33:54 Another property company on the scene and another debenture on the horizon.
It reminds me of that Scotch video tape commercial. Title: This is worrying... Post by: sonic youth on Thursday, June 7, 2007, 11:37:39 Quote from: "RobertT" By threatening to pull out he essentially puts an end date on everything. It says that if they do continue to stall then the only option he'll give them is to pay him £1.2m on demand. The club clearly will not have £1.2m plus £900k for the CVA now due in 3 weeks just sitting around in a bank account. So they now have a quick series of decisions to make as opposed to continuing the current strategy. It mentions in the article about a deadline being given to the club, I;m guessing the bit in the paper is just reporting on what has already happened behind the scenes. diamandis has more or less admitted that he'll take the club down with him, so what is this going to achieve? it's blatantly obvious that the board aren't going to think 'shit, he's got us over a barrel here - time to bail out' and suddenly start negotiating. Title: This is worrying... Post by: Sippo on Thursday, June 7, 2007, 11:38:38 I'm confused...
If he demands the money back, the club struggle then surely the board will need to sell or the cub become non-existant? Or am I completely on the wrong track? :? :? Title: This is worrying... Post by: RobertT on Thursday, June 7, 2007, 11:40:23 The Board become a non entity with this next stage. It's the Wills family who stand to lose the money. The club going under means £6m of loan notes vanishing, even Diamandis would be hard pressed to advise that course of action. He may be a big influence, but it's not his money at risk.
Title: This is worrying... Post by: herthab on Thursday, June 7, 2007, 11:40:47 Ever since Bill Power jumped into bed with the Fans Consortium I have been slightly uneasy with the 'hero worship' bestowed on him by some people.
I can't believe that he's become involved for purely altruistic reasons and find it incredibly naive of others to do so. He's a businessman and as such must have other motives for his interest in us. Saying that, I'd still rather give him a chance than the current incumbents. Maybe I've just mislaid my rose tinted specs :? Title: This is worrying... Post by: Arriba on Thursday, June 7, 2007, 11:42:20 what if powers threats to walk away actually happen?
Title: This is worrying... Post by: yeo on Thursday, June 7, 2007, 11:42:53 Great News 8)
Now something might happen, legal action has been needed for a while now. Title: This is worrying... Post by: RobertT on Thursday, June 7, 2007, 11:46:42 Quote from: "herthab" Ever since Bill Power jumped into bed with the Fans Consortium I have been slightly uneasy with the 'hero worship' bestowed on him by some people. I can't believe that he's become involved for purely altruistic reasons and find it incredibly naive of others to do so. He's a businessman and as such must have other motives for his interest in us. Saying that, I'd still rather give him a chance than the current incumbents. Maybe I've just mislaid my rose tinted specs :? I don't think you are wrong Herthab. I've had the pleasure of meeting him, and he really does want to be involved in STFC, he really does want to help the club. But you are right, he is a businessman. He may not be in it to make millions (def not) he is also not in it to lose a fortune. If push comes to shove though, and he's put in a position where the club start playing the French knights from the Holy Grail, then he would as a businessman and person by entirley likely to say - "fuck you". I'm not stupid enough to confuse a desire to be involved and help with something altgoether more rose pettled of being a Benefactor. Title: This is worrying... Post by: RobertT on Thursday, June 7, 2007, 11:51:25 Quote from: "arriba" what if powers threats to walk away actually happen? If the club have no way of showing a share transfer or paperwork to show a donation, then they owe £1.2m payable on demand (which is the state of play with any loan that has no terms). The club do not have £1.2m handy so would need to very quickly get on bended knees and plead for repayment terms, or face being forced to wind-up the business. By doing so all the current ties to STFC of Mr Wills and family would be wiped out in an instant (St Modwen getting first dibs as they hold the debenture). Power would probably get very little actual money back this way, but the Wills family would lose a shit load of security. So, it would be up to Wills what to do. Nothing, or let the shares go and get a little something. If you don't threaten the end game then there is not point in making the threat at all. You have to suggest you'd go all the way. Title: This is worrying... Post by: Arriba on Thursday, June 7, 2007, 11:53:57 thanks rob.i'm a little less worried after reading your post.
Title: This is worrying... Post by: herthab on Thursday, June 7, 2007, 11:57:59 Yeah, cheers Rob for making things a little clearer!
Is there anyway we can have a special avatar for people who actually know what they're on about, like Rob, Paul D and Fred (Sometimes :wink: ) It would save time reading bullshit by people who don't know a fucking thing but think they do :D Title: This is worrying... Post by: red macca on Thursday, June 7, 2007, 11:58:52 So in reality power could have done this to start with ?
Title: This is worrying... Post by: Samdy Gray on Thursday, June 7, 2007, 11:59:54 Well if it does get legal then I'd imagine it could go one of two ways:
a) the club can't afford to pay back the 1.2 million therefore we go bankrupt b) Power gets ownership of the club as part of a settlement Title: This is worrying... Post by: janaage on Thursday, June 7, 2007, 12:00:05 Quote from: "Yeovil Red" Great News 8) Now something might happen, legal action has been needed for a while now. I'm with Yeovil, this really isn't worrying news, PD stated many months ago that if negotiations cam eot nothing that this would most probably be the only course of action available to BP and co. He is effectively trying to force the hand of the board. Don't start losing your bottle now, this is when BP and co need the support the most. Bring it on!!! Title: This is worrying... Post by: sonic youth on Thursday, June 7, 2007, 12:01:53 Quote from: "RobertT" The club do not have £1.2m handy so would need to very quickly get on bended knees and plead for repayment terms, or face being forced to wind-up the business. perhaps i'm being too cynical but i can imagine diamandis saying "fuck it" and just winding-up the club. do you really think he has the capacity and honesty to admit defeat? Title: This is worrying... Post by: ghanimah on Thursday, June 7, 2007, 12:03:31 Quote from: "red macca" So in reality power could have done this to start with ? He could but this would leave him open to accusations of not having the club's best interests at heart. This way BP can say I'm trying to help the club but they're being slow & awkward so I'm forced down this path Title: This is worrying... Post by: herthab on Thursday, June 7, 2007, 12:03:35 Quote from: "sonic youth" Quote from: "RobertT" The club do not have £1.2m handy so would need to very quickly get on bended knees and plead for repayment terms, or face being forced to wind-up the business. perhaps i'm being too cynical but i can imagine diamandis saying "fuck it" and just winding-up the club. do you really think he has the capacity and honesty to admit defeat? Surely MD can't do that? His signature's worth fuck all.............. Title: This is worrying... Post by: sonic youth on Thursday, June 7, 2007, 12:06:05 you'd have thought not but it's abundantly clear who calls the shots.
Title: This is worrying... Post by: Tails on Thursday, June 7, 2007, 12:08:17 Maybe I am being naive here but surely SSW wouldn't allow that? After he is supposedly a Swindon fan. I can't see him cutting off his nose to spite his own face.
Title: This is worrying... Post by: red macca on Thursday, June 7, 2007, 12:09:24 Legally if there is someone willing to takeover they would not be able to let the club fold anyway surely.
Title: This is worrying... Post by: pauld on Thursday, June 7, 2007, 12:18:27 Quote from: "red macca" So in reality power could have done this to start with ? Yes, absolutely. If as the various Adver forum aliases suggest all Bill P is interested in is getting his money back, he'd have sued them in October. Statutory demand, 28 days, money back or that's it. Title: This is worrying... Post by: RobertT on Thursday, June 7, 2007, 12:19:42 The owner can if they wanted to. Diamandis has no direct say in the matter and for once Wills may have to make his own decision. BY winding-up the business he is protected from paying off the creditors, but he also loses all his own investment over the years.
Whether other creditors could pursue any actions against those at the club is something I'd have no clue about, but don't think they can stop a winding-up. Title: This is worrying... Post by: pauld on Thursday, June 7, 2007, 12:20:28 Quote from: "Tails" Maybe I am being naive here but surely SSW wouldn't allow that? After he is supposedly a Swindon fan. I can't see him cutting off his nose to spite his own face. I'd certainly hope not. Push comes to shove, while MD may have a lot of clout, he has no legal power to force the club down the tubes rather than accept an offer - the Wills family own the majority shareholding in both the club and the holding co, so legally it's their shout. Title: This is worrying... Post by: Iffy's Onion Bhaji on Thursday, June 7, 2007, 12:20:48 well this is big news! we cold go down the pan or get taken over at last! it's just what the doctor ordered though! no more Mr nice guy from BP and it's about time the board (who must be shitting themselves) stepped aside. lets see what happens....
Title: This is worrying... Post by: Power to people on Thursday, June 7, 2007, 12:53:59 If this is how it has to be then so be it, this is how the current incumbents got the club from Donnegan & Blatchley wouldn't it be dejavu if this is how the current lot lost control..the same way they gained control
What goes around comes around... Go now while there is still some dignity. Title: This is worrying... Post by: Phil_S on Thursday, June 7, 2007, 13:21:24 Even on the Adver board most are behind bill Power
Title: This is worrying... Post by: Iffy's Onion Bhaji on Thursday, June 7, 2007, 13:22:17 yup. it's time for the board to step aside! surely they dont want to pay the money for a legal battle?
Title: This is worrying... Post by: Power to people on Thursday, June 7, 2007, 14:17:20 Would they have the money for a legal battle more to the point, it must be costing them enough for their solicitors that are dealing with the NDA let alone having to fund a court case.
Title: This is worrying... Post by: red macca on Thursday, June 7, 2007, 14:57:04 So there are 3 possibilitys then
we go down the pan we get taken over or the new investor just happens to have £2.1 million that will pay power and the cva leaving us no better off Title: This is worrying... Post by: Iffy's Onion Bhaji on Thursday, June 7, 2007, 14:59:44 yes and what worries me most is the last option. yes we could go bust but i doubt that would happen with BP waiting in the wings to take over. or we just get stuck at square 1 again! not what i and probably many other people want
Title: This is worrying... Post by: Give us an S on Thursday, June 7, 2007, 17:32:10 Im expecting a statement tomorrow.
Bob Holt: "There is no Bill Power" Title: This is worrying... Post by: kevin m on Thursday, June 7, 2007, 17:55:26 About time BP got mean with the board its the only way they might realise that the takeover is actually real.
No doubt there come out with a statement saying its all lies and they have proof its shares not a loan. Aload of bollocks as normal. Lets just hope power can now get control of the club and take us forward Title: This is worrying... Post by: Phil_S on Friday, June 8, 2007, 08:40:44 There is a possible fourth option .... that the mysterious investor (Who I reckon is Chinese BTW :-))( ), is actually in takeover talks. However, perhaps somebody can help me out here.
One thing that I am trying to get my head around is the fact that the board now appear to have gone back on them selves & are now saying again that Bills money was for a shareholding. (I'm sure they acknowledged in the winter that it was a loan). Assuming for a nano second that they are right, given the value of the comapny it would need to be a significant shareholding, say 30% of shares.We already know that the Wills did hold about 65-70% of shares. So if they are right where does Bill's share holding come from? ... Logically the wills family. We have a situation that the board are courting an investor. If it were a "Takeover", then he would need to acquire a Majority of shares. So where will they come from ? Conclusion: Either Bills money was & is a loan or this is NOT a takeover, but more money going into the same blackhole at SN1. Unless there is a serious flaw in my arguement, I can't see any other conclusion. (I'm sure I'll be corrected if I'm wrong here) Title: This is worrying... Post by: horlock07 on Friday, June 8, 2007, 11:27:21 about 4 hours till the Friday statement then, I am going for 4.42pm today!
Title: This is worrying... Post by: STFC Bart on Friday, June 8, 2007, 11:29:08 Shall we have a sweepstake on the release time
Title: This is worrying... Post by: jayohaitchenn on Friday, June 8, 2007, 11:31:33 it'll be after 5 as usual. I never get to see the friday updates until monday :(
Title: This is worrying... Post by: glos_robin on Friday, June 8, 2007, 11:37:29 17.22
Title: This is worrying... Post by: RobertT on Friday, June 8, 2007, 11:46:14 whenever the reporters have all gone home so they don't get asked any questions.
Title: This is worrying... Post by: STFC Bart on Friday, June 8, 2007, 11:54:31 17.38 i reckon
Title: This is worrying... Post by: Iffy's Onion Bhaji on Friday, June 8, 2007, 12:10:20 17:02 just to piss off the people who leave work at 5 and are waiting all day for a statement at their computers
Title: This is worrying... Post by: Batch on Friday, June 8, 2007, 12:13:37 17:57, just in time for the news
Title: This is worrying... Post by: Frigby Daser on Friday, June 8, 2007, 12:14:43 Quote from: "RobertT" The Board become a non entity with this next stage. It's the Wills family who stand to lose the money. The club going under means £6m of loan notes vanishing, even Diamandis would be hard pressed to advise that course of action. He may be a big influence, but it's not his money at risk. If it is true that Wills has mortgaged most of his estate to keep the club running, the club going under (and thus there being no prospect of having those mortgages paid off by someone like BP) could mean him having his estate repossessed? Title: This is worrying... Post by: Frigby Daser on Friday, June 8, 2007, 12:14:57 Statement at 4.37pm.
*Board note with interest Bill Power's comments *Once again, wish not to put this in the public arena *Legal advice to stay quiet *Meanwhile, investment talks are positive and ongoing - when there is news they will keep their beloved fans up to date *Paul Sturrock is fully behind the board *The new shirt will even make fat ugly blokes pull Title: This is worrying... Post by: Batch on Friday, June 8, 2007, 12:35:54 Quote from: "The Moonraker" *The new shirt will even make fat ugly blokes pull Yeeeeesssssssss! Get in. Title: This is worrying... Post by: Sussex on Friday, June 8, 2007, 12:40:06 Quote from: "Batch" Quote from: "The Moonraker" *The new shirt will even make fat ugly blokes pull Yeeeeesssssssss! Get in. Disclaimer: If you read this, he was only joking Mrs Batch. Title: This is worrying... Post by: Batch on Friday, June 8, 2007, 12:46:16 Erm, I was happy for any other fat ugly blokes, yeah, that's what I ment.
Also if you are reading this Mrs Batch shouldn't you be in the kitchen or something... * I'm safe, no chance of her on a footy forum |