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in Amsterdam in Ajax ground which holds over 50,000. The game is on BBC 1 at 6.50. 7pm kick off. Micah Richards is starting at RB. The Strikeforce for Engalnd will be Andy Johnson and Wayne Rooney. I hope Huntelaar plays for Holland because he is a quality striker. I am going for a 1-1 draw.

We will probably get spanked!

Millom

we really need to get a decent result here. most are already starting to doubt Steve McClaren.

I personnally can't wait to see Andy Johnson in an england shirt, I think he's an ace player

I'm betting on 1-1. AJ to score 1st

26-13 Rooney (12) Johnson (3) Richards (10) Terry (1)
Kuyt (13)

 Without being pedantic I think its Andrew Johnson....I think it rather shows the level to which we've sunk that Johnson is seen as the solution.   Good diver, mind

because you have said that reg im now gonna place £10 on him scoring 1st goal.its sods law that it will happen after you said that.

i dont rate him either tbh

Oh bloody hell thought kick off was 8pm!!!  Im playing footy till 7, shit!

bushey do u play for the manor?

yeah when they are desperate!?!?! why?

Not going to watch it

England are wank !

who were you playing for on sunday though, in a very weird dark blue and purple kit.... :shock:

I cannot comment due to legal reasons.

and DV where you there? you really need to elarn to say hello!

I hate to say it but the way they played recently, they'd have a push to beat the scum the way things are going!!

Blasphemy I know - I'll fetch my gun.....  :disapprove:

well I was on the other pitch playing football, and I dont think the team would have appreiacted thier centre back(!!)leaving the pitch walking across to the other one to say hello to a midget!!

The Mail Coach  :fag:

at least they werent in tracksuits eh!

I'm playing footy from 7:30 until 8:30. So I will miss the whole game. Can't say I'm too bothered.

What kind of inference is that ?

It was a long time ago !!!!!

 :?

1-0 Wayne Rooney. typical friendly really

So Ultra was right with a 1-1 draw prediction.

Typical friendly, utter shite for 88 minutes, good last two and stoppage time.

Think the defenders should have dealt with the throw in for the cloggies goal. Too easy to blame th keeper.

na it was the keepers fault. like lawrenson says, if Robinson comes out and gets the slightest touch it changes the path of the ball. Hes got no hope rooted on his line

Johnson is just not international class, it's a sad day when he's starting for England.

I thought Micah Richards played really well at RB. I thought for Holland Van der Vaart played well and lasted 90 mins after being out for 3 months with an ankle injury. A right prediction from me. That is a first.

Blue socks with orange shirts just don't go together  :gay:

DV if you had come over we would of battered you for having such girlie hair!!!!

it is sad when he's stuck out on the left wing.

What is it with England managers and playing Johnson out of position.

The ex-Town boy was Man of the Match for me.Gerrard and Lampard completely anonymous.And what is it with Chelsea players-diving twats?Cole and Robben-fucking disgraceful!

 Do you recall the Porto side of about 4 years ago that beat Celtic in the UEFA Cup.....think there may be a link.

it only looked like a propper game for the last five minutes.

Johnson shouldn't be playing in any position.

Of course he should be, ok his form of late has been shite but he's scored a fair few this year and deserves a place upfront not out on the fucking wing.  :evil:

It would make sense to play everyone in their rightful position... gives them a fair chance to show what they've got. Of course, knowing that Terry and Ferdinand are the 1st choice centre backs, it also makes perfect sense to never try anyone else there in friendlies.

Steve MacLaren frustrates me just as much as Sven, but has done it in only 4 games or so.

Note to Lampard: Put some fucking effort in!

I watched this half-heartedly last night and was totally fucking under-whelmed by what I was watching.

The goal we scored was from a glorious pass by Cole and finished by Rooney (luckily) almost facing our own goal.

What a shit goal to give away.  Sweden in WC06 again - except different centre backs.
Lampard crap.  Johnson was a waste of space.

Lets finally bury this fucking idea that we are a world class football side - we aren't.  FACT.

Yep agreed.

Andy Johnson will be filed with the likes of Andy Cole, Kevin Phillips and James Beattie in strikers that didn't make the grade at international level.

Micah Richards did okay - inexperience showed but nothing that can't be sorted out as he's only 18.

Lampard seems to get worse but as I read somewhere - anyone would look world class with Makelele, Essien, Ballack in your midfield.

We woke up when Holland scored which isn't new for us. I've seen no significant improvement under McClaren... Has he had enough games now to make such a judgement?

For a friendly like that I would have liked to see some new faces other than Richards in the squad/starting line-up - Foster, Dawson, Reo-Coker, maybe Baines... We need to look at other options without throwing them into the deep end.

Good final point Rich but consider the rest.

Ball retention - poor
Passing - poor
Final ball (except J Cole for goal) - poor
Set piece defending (mostly) - poor

Our keeper's confidence is shot away, Ferdinand and Terry looked like strangers at times, no service to the front 1/2/3 (depending on what we play)

These are supposedly world class players.

Mind you, Holland weren't much better except Robben didn't dive so much

We were far from great but Holland were worse. Frankly compared to the Croatia perfomance we looked like 1970 Brazil last night :wink:

Pushing it!  Point taken tho'

Joe Cole's cross may have been good but he was falling over at the time which was the only reason it was.

The rest of the game he ran around with effort (more so than any of the others can say) but he was a diving little shit - I've never before wanted one of our own to be booked for being such a diver, but I almost did last night.

The simple way of putting it is that we as a team do not play to our strengths and I said this to my friends when Mclaren took over and dropped Beckham in an act of desperation for individuality!

we play dull, slow football, so why drop the man who is slowest and can deliver the best cross in the game???

If he was wanting to chance things to be more creative and pacey then dropping him was the right move but I certainly havent seen an ounce of difference in play since then other than some useless formations and rubbish results - this to me suggests one thing, McClaren is not the man for the job - end of.

And I dont see why he should be given years to prove himself, all he is going to do is dig our team further into the ground until its too late to repair it, he simply cant cut the grade i'm afraid!

I beg to differ on Johnson, he's played 5 matches mostly as a sub and nearly always out of position, a pretty auspicious start to any international career.  Last night was a chance to see him in his favoured position against decent international opposition, yet we wasted it.  I feel he shouldn't be written off yet, if you look at many players 5 caps is hardly career defining, if I remember correctly Steve Stone scored 2 in his first couple of matches, but IMHO he was never exactly a superstar.

Johnson's main advantage is that we have a lack of WORLD CLASS strikers at the moment so he has a good chance of staying in the England set-up.

He's not had the best of luck but you can be sure that when the next "Rooney" shows up he'll be gone and forgotten.

To be fair on the Dutch, that was practically their 2nd side, whereas we had 8 or 9 of our (supposedly) strongest 11 out there.

Well looks like I was wrong about Johnson, completely anonymous last night, along with our midfield. Micah Richards impressed me, definately one for the future.

Not very exciting though, I feel quite apathetic about the whole international thing now.

It was to risky, 4 or 5 players between him and the ball for the flick on. Second ball, maybe, but a) the first flick should have been cut out, b) we should still have dealt with the second ball.  Shit defending.

I love the fact the biggest Johnson knocker is a Crouch fan.

He is not top international class, but he should at least be given a chance to play in his position.

Lampard should be given the Beckham treatment.  The only thing he ever offered was an ability to turn up on the edge of the box and out away a goal every few games.  it did enough to just about justify his selection but now that's vanishing he offers absolutely nothing.

England sat back at 1-0... Something we do all the time... It was only a matter of time before the Dutch equalised.

We were lucky we were playing a team just as lethargic as ourselves!

Oh and if Rooney ever attempts to head the ball at the goal like he did last night in an important match instead of volleying/half-volleying/bringing it down and shooting/popping collar, saying au revoir a blasting the ball into the net....

I won't be happy.

Well any england fan with a brain would have to say Crouch is the best we have at this minute in time based on ability to ACTUALLY SCORE GOALS - I mean Rooney's record is hardly amazing, there are strikers considered much less talented in the world game that have a better ratio than his (especially seeing as it was 1 year and 3 days since his last goal until last night!)

At least when Crouch plays he plays with passion AND scores, Rooney has the passion and not the goals in him at international level yet and Johnson is never going to get anywhere if he isnt played in his best position! IMO

Do we miss Michael Owen? Yes, largely ineffective in his last caps but at least there was a chance he'd put the ball in the net.

http://www.thefa.com/England/SeniorTeam/Archive/default.htm?i=5197&pf=p&searchname=Owen&ap=p&t=m

Bring back Beckham!

Enough said  :thumbs:

If Beckham and Owen where in the team, at least you'd know you were going to get 110% - The same can not be said for messrs Lampard and dare I say it, Carrick, who for the best part of last night (baring one almost cracking shot) looked at best OK.

Damn right.

How can anyone take McClaren seriously when he says he wants to drop the old guard to allow new faces... Only to ask Paul Scholes to come out of international retirement!

Beckham can provide that one moment of quality that can change the game, the Los Angeles Galaxy will discover this in time  :wink:

But in Crouch's first 5 matches and I think his record hardly set the world alight! Only in his last few games has Crouchster actually regained the ability to hit a barn door, after his first few caps I seem to think most people didn't hugely rate his performances.

On another point how does Richardson justify selection, as on the criteria that stopped Beckham being picked he isn't in good form or playing very often, neither is Wright-Phillips?  Contradictions from Mclaren methinks.

There is a simple resolution to all England worries....
Mclaren OUT!!!

Unfortunately the FA will never have the balls to get rid of him until he fails to get us qualified, by which point he will have wasted another tournament and potentially the good coaching of some promising youngsters that need guidance.

I agree completely mattboy, Johnson will do well, but only if played through the middle or as a front partnership, not on the wing or dropping off behind like idiot face McClaren did last night

In fairness Richardson was drafted in because of injuries... Ferguson wasn't happy with K.R after the Crewe game too so I don't know why he can walk into the set-up.

I remember Crouch being booed against Austria... Hargreaves went on to better things after being booed by the England fans. From what I hear alot of people STILL don't like Crouch despite his scoring exploits... Mind you his Dreadlock pulling goal against T&T and his goal in Macedonia are his only important goals for England thus far. He's scored 12!

Rooney has only scored 13 now in 37 games, somehow I have a bad feeling Rooney is never going to reach the world potential he had and still shows at times in his build up play.

At the minute though he just doesnt have that killer instinct he had when he was coming through the ranks - I blame Colleen.

On a different point, if we thought McClaren was thick in some of his team selections, how the hell did the dutch not pick Van Donkey up front, he's playing like there is no tomorrow for Real at the minute - only not picked on personal grounds with the manager apparently? how ridiculous

Am I missing something or are these comments from Mclaren completely wrong?? -
"We looked fluid in midfield, we had penetration up front and I'm very pleased with the performance, although we conceded from a set-play which is disappointing.

That is the one disappointment from the night.
Obviously, we don't like conceding goals and we have to find reasons for that."

I tought it was pretty poo in the middle to be fair? although having penetration up front I suppose is OK, we did creat some chances, just didnt have anyone who could actually score them up front!

There were no problems when Rooney was visiting those old women!!!!

Exactly, he's getting too settled - I say someone should ruin their relationship so that he becomes the true goal hunting dog that he is again!!  :twisted:

hehehe, penetration.

Rooney is a great supporting striker, not a goal scorer. Thats why we need Michael Owen back, a little nippy goalscorer. they balance each other well.

The same can be said of the balance in the middle. You need a central player who will go forwards to support the attack like Gerrard OR Lampard (Gerrard for me every time) and a central player who sits a little deeper like Hargreaves. I don't rate Carrick at all but he sort of fits into that mold as well.

The team we put out against Netherlands has no balance at all.

And one more thing. Why play Steven Gerrard on the right? surely you play your best players in their best positions, It's tantamount to playing Rooney at right back. doesn't make any sense to me at all.

I really cant see how Supermac thinks we were the better side-for the most part we were chasing shadows as Holland Reserves kept the ball far better than we did.

Richards looked good, and can improve - while Phil Neville the other option can only get worse.

Andrew johnson, what a pile of... Neither he nor Carrick should where the 3 lions again.

Where was Bambi - surely he should've played?

Good to see Joe Cole back, what a cross for the goal

Crouch is way way better than Johnson and it's not even close. Lets see, 11 goals in 16 England games or 0 in 5. Crouch has scored 4 in the champions league this season, Johnson has never even played in Europe. Most of the English strikers in the premiership are also better than Johnson. I'd rather have Defoe, Darren Bent, or even Walcott, at least he has the potential to get better.

Lampard should definitely not be dropped, you only had to see his performance against Barcelona to see that he is one of the players who should definitely be in the England side. Players like Kieran Richardson who hardly even gets in the Man United team though definitely shouldn't.

a really boring game ...

I often agree with you Ben, in fact, i usually do 9 times out of 10. But Lampard definitely needs to be dropped. He isn't doing it for England for whatever reason, and so should be dropped.  A 4 man midfield of Cole-Hargreaves-Gerrard-Lennon when all are fit please.

Hmm, lets try Crouch on the left wing and see how he gets on shall we, oh and lets see him score bundles against teams other than Jamaica.

Defoe though has been given chances playing in his preferred position and has been found a little wanting at the top level.  Also note I didn't suggest Johnson could hack it, just that he has potential and should at least have been tried as a striker.  To try him out wide was pointless.

He's already scored bundles against teams other than Jamaica so that's done.



Lampards England form hasn't been great but neither has Gerrards (or most of the rest of the team) but they are two of the best players for 2 of the premierships top teams, we don't have a huge amount of alternatives and I think an England team without Lampard would have to have even more Richardson/Johnson/Wright-Phillips style average players and I don't see how it would be an improvement. Lampard is also once again the premierships top scoring midfielder so he is in good form.

It's a shame Lennon was injured because it would have been good to see him play yesterday.

Crouch has scored against:

Uruguay
Hungary
Jamaica
Trinidad & Tobago
Greece
Andorra
Macedonia

2 teams of average repute but both were friendlies and the Greece team barely managed to get off the coach for their game against us.

Failed to score against:

Colombia
Austria
Argentina
Paraguay
Sweden
Portugal
Croatia

Now, I'm not saying it's still not a good effort to score the goals he has - you still have to beat these teams.  However, it's not suggesting a great record in the tougher games with more organised and professional defenders.  Anyway, it's still a question of him being given that chance to play upfront against these teams and taking it.  johnson hasn't been afforded the chance.  If we are going to try him, better to do it upfront or not at all.

100% agreed.

There is not a lot of difference in the quality of the first list of teams than the second, Portugal and Argentina are the best teams, but Crouch started neither of those games but was still the key factor in us winning the Argentina game. Clearly his record for England is outstanding.

Johnson has never shown anything to suggest he could even come close to that kind of record, he's a good penalty taker but that's about it and he's not even scored in 8 games, Crouch has 3 in the same period and he's scored 7 more than Johnson this season, so why the fuck should Johnson be starting? You have to show you deserve a chance and he hasn't. He scored 16 in the championship last year - we may as well have Cameron Jerome or Dave Kitson playing for England, they both outscored him.  Even Darren Bent has scored 3 more than him this season.

Isn't that what you boys have needed in the last few tournaments??

Ben, read the bit in the quote above - if we play Johnson, then it has to be upfront.  I'm not saying we should or we shouldn't.

Bent would get in ahead of him for me, in order of trying someone out.

Personally I'd ditch half the squad and build a young team for the next 3 years, accepting that shit results will follow from time to time, I'd also go with a blank cheque to someone like Wenger as the entire approach of the team needs to be changed.  i don't see an English Manager with the right credentials to do it.

 :nod:

How long will Dean Ashton be out?
He's worth a look imo.

Millom

I agree that if Johnson does play it should be in his best position but really he shouldn't be playing at all, I mean I don't think the main reason he was poor yesterday was he was out of position, he's just not very good.

My kid reminded me recently that it ws Sturrrock who took Crouch to Soton.

Frank Lampard & Steven Gerrard, always have been and always will be a poor mans Paul Scholes.

Over the last few years its been Lampard this and Gerrard that, yet Scholes is still better than both of them.

England were shite and boring. Pointless passing across the backline, how ghey.

Premier League is played at a high tempo, so why dont we do this at International level?

Johnson out of position was stupid beyond belief

We've changed manager, but we play no different and the subs are generally the same. Its like we still have Sven....

I wanted a high tempoed fast paced premiership style England side and I would like to see Johnson and Rooney given a chance UPFRONT. 4-5-1 is for ghey negative shit teams after a draw.