Thetownend.com

Short but sweet

http://www.swindontownfc.premiumtv.co.uk/page/News/NewsDetail/0,,10341~908418,00.html

:piemonte:   feel the love

politically correct

indeed

worst. statement. ever.

 FACT

I second that fact. how lame.

Yes but lets face it we'll moan about it no matter how long it is

Said the pope to the butcher.

Is there going to be published minutes or is that it?

Sometimes less is more folks !

Lets see how things shape up from here shall we ?

I am sure if things had gone really badly then a stronger statement would have been forthcoming.

 :wink:

I expect a statement on the fans websites asap as to what was said these people are supposed to be representing us not climbing up their own arses.

and all this 'less is more' 'wink wink' crap is getting on my tits as well.

Agree.

I wasn't there either but even the vaguest detail would be of some illumination to everybody who didn't go.

As in:

"We decided that the Wills family should pull the plug" or

"We decided that there is a way forward between the Wills family and the supporters' groups" or

"We decided that the fans should buy the club and the Wills family will back any bid" or

"The meeting was a complete fucking failure and Paul Davis lamped James Wills a good 'un"

Alternatively if there are reasons for not giving any detail then it would have been kinder to have a statement saying as much.

"The meeting had an agreed outcome which will become public over the next few days/weeks/months*"

*delete as applicable

What a naff statement.

Not even a "more to follow" or " further details on the Trust site by noon Monday".

Another PR coup there.

What shall we fill the void with?  I know, lets have some speculation and rumour. Here goes:

" You are the true supporter reps. Those idiots on the forums are not the real fans. They are the problem. Tell them nothing!"

Whose agenda is served by this lack of info?


Can I borrow your bucket of sand?

Spot on I thought it would only be me.

I appreciate that people have lives but a simple "more to follow ASAP"  would have done.Rob T and Fred Elliots "we know more than you" attitude has seriously got my goat.Own goal supporters groups let not forget who you represent  :x

OK, broadly, the meeting was very positive, with a genuine desire on all sides to move on from the public slanging matches and find a way forward. There was an "airing of grievances" but it became apparent there was little to be gained from recriminations over who said what to whom when and the discussion moved on. For our part (ie the Trust) we reiterated our great respect for the Wills family and that the concept of the fans' consortium was a positive response to recent events, not something that the Wills family should regard as a threat. I hope we were successful in conveying that latter point (ie that the fans' consortium concept can only bring good to the club if it succeeds).

I think it's fair to say all parties accepted that the recent bout of statement and counter-statement had been harmful to the club, and I say this without getting into "who started it" or whose fault it's all been, which, again, isn't a terribly useful debate to be having at this time. The fact is it has been harmful to the club, unsettling for the team and in turns annoying or boring for many fans. And we need, as a club, and as fans' groups to move on from that - certainly for the Trust, we've said what we had to say, and have been told by fans how they want us to respond to that, in terms of investigating the options with regards to a fans' consortium/new investors etc. Likewise, I think it's fair to say the club have had their say. And all parties at the meeting tonight keenly wanted to move on from that phase.

To some extent, this post in itself could be viewed as being a "breaking of ranks" on the joint statement - I hope not. I've tried to give a decent overview of the tone of the meeting and keep fans informed without treading on anyone's toes.

As I said at the outset, I was personally very impressed with how positive the meeting was and the determination of all participants to move on and work in the best interests of the club.

Attendees:
Club/Board: Sir Seton Wills, James Wills, Martyn Starnes, Ben Lambert, Sandy Gray, Chris Tanner
Fans: Andy Ratcliffe, Paul Davis (TrustSTFC), Nigel Bennett, Roger Bunce (Supporters' Club), Rob "Who ate all the sandwiches?" Tuck (L&P)
Referee: Cliff Puffett

I'm sorry not to have posted something sooner - Yeovil, I fully accept the point and I'd intended to put some more flesh on the bones earlier in the evening, but couldn't as I got home to a maelstrom of kids and ill missus, who promptly went to bed. Since then the youngest has been up and down all night cos he ain't feeling too crash-hot either. Which is completely immaterial in terms of people wanting more details etc but in all honesty I'd have posted sooner if I could. Shit happens sometimes.

Oh, and lighten up on Fred and Rob - there's been a lot of crap flying about over the past few weeks and I don't think either have tried to pull the "I know more than you do" card so much as being keenly aware of the very difficult balance between wanting to share information with fans but not either fan the flames of rumour or post stuff they're not 100% confident of. A lot of people have had that dilemma over the past couple of weeks and few, if any (including me), have got the balance right.

If you're going to have a go at Rob, tho, you could do worse than start with asking some very tough questions about his "chicken drumstick 'n' sandwiches" habit  :D

Thanks for that pauld. No need for us to guess now.

As for "breaking of ranks", surely there wasn't an agreement to say nothing more than the first statement?!

                  Save money, sack the PR advisers

Still upset the tef didn't get a call up  :D

so what did that statement actually tell us?

sod all .. as most of the fans still want the current board out ...

if that was the case ALOT more people would of attended the trust meeting regarding this

 There was a 100 at the meeting Macca.....if you've ever been involved in anything of a "political" nature you'd know that was a high turnout.

 I've been at open meetings with the club about stuff like ground redevelopment etc when there's been maybe 20.   I think its fair to say most fans want the Board out, but not at the expense of destabilising the club.

Fair enough I suppose though what you have said is just a puffed up version of the original statement. Fred and Rob are guilty of what I said they would have been better off saying nothing at all rather than "less is more" and winking each other in a "I know more than you" way and its still annoying me now and im no longer pissed.

agreed

Well, without going into a line-by-line "he said this, she said that" (which I wouldn't remember all of it anyway), that is a pretty fair summary of what happened. And who you calling puffed-up?

Exactly so Reg - especially given most people had already travelled to the Wycombe game the night before which means two nights out in a row creates problems for those of us with families who have to get "passes", a lot of out-of-towners sent apologies etc. Pretty decent turnout in the circumstances.

I'm sure Fred will PM you his response.

Don't worry though I have formed a splinter group called Silent but Violent. We keep schtum and then go for a bundle in the car park, all you have to do is send me a tenner and I'll drink some lager on your behalf.

ok thats a fair shout.im just saying i dont think the amount of fans want the board out that fatbury suggests

My comments were never intended to be like that.

If that is the way that they came accross then I publicly apologise to everyone

find me one fan, one fan that doesnt want the current board out...

There is a difference between people wanting the board out, and people getting off their arses to do something about it...

I have to say I agree.  Rob T seems a pleasant enough bloke but at the end of the day he's a fella who could be arsed to go to Swindon matches for years, then decide to come back to the fold then proceed to blow his own trumpet and his mates' trumpets for the next few months.  Fred Elliott's "I've pm'ed you mate" attitude stinks too.  Paul D I have enough time for because he's a bloke (though I've never met him) seems to at least answer your concerns.  When you post your concerns.

Gentlemen please remove your heads from your arses and remember you're meant to be the average fan, not a holier than thou do gooder stroke arse licker.

Erm aren't I supposed to be a do gooder/arse licker?  :D

Yeah you are Paul but you do a good job at hiding it!

Class Spacey! I hadn't even read your post before posting mine, glad someone else has....

actually I'll pm you the rest of this post!   :wink:

I wish I hadn't met people now. it's easier to call everybody cunts when you haven't actually met people and liked them. Apart from Doore. He's a cunt.

fuck off you cunt  :D

Not sure whether I'm insulted by that or really pleased!

Even having a meeting with a proper fans group is a step forward.

I never thought Id see the day when the Wills met with the scum of the earth, which we obviously are.

If these meetings are to become more regular which has been hinted at....then an effort should be made to make them more representative.

  With all due respect, Roger, Rob and Paul D...(OK don't) only represent a tiny fraction of the fan base....where's the gay and lesbian faction...ethnic minority....disabled....youth....reformed hooligan , current hooligan, out of town fans, in town fans...women's section.

 Not forgetting the various websites, Silent but Violent and last but not least Quiet and Ashamed.

 I propose a resolution comrades for the next meeting to draw up a fans reps Bill of Rights.

Please don't - they're already talking about a Customers' Charter! Gaaah

 Customer's charter is sooooo90's John Major.

  Something like a Magna Charter....enshrining fan's groups rights Clause IV style would be acceptable to the rank and file.

   The radical genie has been released from the Anglo Italian Cup Winners Cup Trophy in the boardroom cabinet.....it will not be easily replaced by a few half hearted  platitudes.

Clause IV? That's soooooo pre-Blair. Clearly what we need are a series of "empowerment focus groups"  :D (NB to anyone from the club reading this - that was a joke!)

  You could be onto something here....we could get nPower, who have offices in the town, to act as sponsor, so having the nPower empowerment focus groups....now if we can get Bill Power back.....

Brilliant fellas

Millom :beers:

Need to get Phil Taylor involved too !

NMH

Sorry to have offended so many by using a smilie.  It was meant as a response to the bit about it going well (as I was under the impression nothing more would be sain until after the various parties had gone back to their members etc).

FWIW I asked at the meeting for all further ones to not include me, for the very reasons people have spouted off on here - I don't represent anyone but me, and never have done on here.

PS, I never said I couldn't be arsed to go.  I had a period of 2 seasons or so where I still attended a handfull of games but had to make a decision on how to use my money.  For whatever reason the football didn't pull me as much as it had done in previouos years and my efforts went on reducing debt.  I'm not ashamed of that and never tried to big up myself (always noting that the people who went to games and made their voices heard were the ones to respect).  What the media then do with that is up to them, as the past 3 weeks had shown only too well with other people.

on the meeting, my summary would still be short:

Wills family expressed concern at language used
Trust defended their case
SC & myself expressed reasons why the club's message may fail to be believed at times
Everyone decided they had said everything they had to say (in public as well)
Wills seemed more than happy to listen to offers
Everyone decided now was the time to get on with making stuff happen

Personally, I'll help when needed behinf the scenes but I've become all to aware that being publicly involved is not helping anyone so asked to be removed from the process.  I got invite to the meeting by the club, thought it rude not to go, and don't expect to be needed for any follow ups.

And FWIW, representative or not, Rob made an excellent contribution IMHO. As well as a serious dent in the sandwiches.

i dont.there you go this is my point we have all these supporters meetings and you will find that they are not speaking for the whole of the supporters

My main issue, as with many people, is Diamandis' role and unaccountability - was this talked of at all? and if so, what was the club response?

Also, Martyn Starnes, Ben Lambert....what are there roles and their backgrounds?

macca, The SC have not publicly expressed a desire for the board to go, so them and the Trust together I think does cover a broad amount of the views on offer.

it's all academic anyway, they why and the where fors that is.  The Wills family have made it quite public that they want someone to buy them out as they are stretched on the money now.

i wouldnt know rob would i?i was not present at the meeting and the statement released regarding it didnt reveal anything.can you see my point yet

IMHO people wanting the board to stay need to voice an opinion.  If the various fans groups state something they are voicing the majority opinion of their members (certainly true for the trust). Frankly if people don't make their opinion heard they are bound to be ignored in comparison to those who state opinions.  Personally having seen the accounts such as they are I am concerned, and I am very much inclined to agree with Moonrakers sentiments regarding accountability for those who seem to run the club.

What I've just stated is public record and you would not have needed to attend the meeting to know, it pre dates all the past few weeks stuff.

The meeting itself produced no new information.  It was more a chance for the Trust, SC and owners of STFC to sit in a room together.

My big issue is this:

We are effectively run by someone who

1) Is not even on the board of directors
2) Has no accountability for any of his actions and consistantly hides behind other people (Gray, Holt etc)
3) Basically he is on a win- win situation- if we go down the pan he takes no blame because he is not on the board- he will use the others to take it for him
4) He is also running Dunwoody of which he is also not (on the board (Sandy Gray is).

Dunwoody being a customer and a supplier of STFC, if that is not a conflict of interest i do not know what is.

Also why are the auditors address the same as the Dunwoody group in Newbury- very convenient

I think that's just because they use the same auditors. No need to create conspiracy theories where there are none - there's enough crap flying around as it is at the moment.

The Wills family have been saying they'd love new investors to come forward for some years now so that they're not always the first ones having to dip their hands in their pockets. Most recently in last week's Gazette & Herald, SSW was very welcoming to the idea of a fans' consortium if it meant he and his family didn't have to keep paying for everything (I'm paraphrasing, obviously). So, irrespective of whether you think we're a bunch of cunts, the point is surely the idea of fans working to find new investment in the club and/or fundraising to try to buy a stake in the club isn't a bad thing? Seems to have done Brentford and Lincoln no harm.

Diamandis being a supplier and being on the board wouldn't be a problem so long as shareholders of STFC voted to agree that he could be. This may well be the reason he's not on the board.

There is also the fact that Dunwoody print programmes and other publications for a large chunk of clubs in the football league - Reading, Derby, Brentford, Plymouth, Sheff Wed, QPR....its a long list. He is gaining profit from businesses in the same sector as us - but he is not acting acting on their behalf - whether this amounts to a conflict I'm not sure - its a tough one to pin down.

The shareholders would also need to vote him onto the board, which is unlikely given the fact he's an unknown quantity.

Its pretty obvious the blokes here to stay.

Regrettably with his boss holding the major shareholding I suspect (not certain) he would be able to be added to the board if he so desired.  What worries me is his decision making role and lack of accountability for it.

The directors would need to call put it forward at the AGM or EGM though - doubt they'd even be up for that.