The Winter Cricket Thread 2013/14 - The Ashes Down Under

[sonicyouth]

I'm sure I'll be in a minority of 1 but I really don't think MJ has bowled as well as 37 at 14 apiece.

Apparently something like 7% of his deliveries would have hit the stumps. He hasn't really swung it or seamed it. He's bowled absolute gas but that shouldn't be enought to get test players out. We've made him look good.

Haddin should have been man of the series.

He's bowled well but we've made him look invincible. Our batsmen just couldn't handle his pace and that's where we've been at our weakest throughout the series, he's constantly sparked collapses because we've emptied our bowels at the sight of him

Completely agree about Haddin, he's played the role that Prior has in the past and won/saved matches for us.

[RedRag]

I don't think losing a series should mean knee jerk reactions usually, but I feel Cook needs to give up the captaincy, if only to release him from the burden which seems to be weighing down on his batting.  He does seem to have dragged the team into a very dour way of playing, which has not caused as many problems as it might do because we had a good team that took a year or two to finally lose all semblance of form when approaching the game this way.  Both series against New Zealand were awful in terms of how we played vs. how we should have been able to play, and then individual performances took games away from Australia in the summer.  At no point have we looked like a team who believe in what we are doing in the past year.

Agreed.

I may be more knee jerk though and wouldn't like to see some seamy pitches cover up 5 consecutive spineless Tests.

Cook and Flower should both stand down.

We were lucky to lose 5-0.  None of the tests were even close unless you count the 8 wicket defeat as close.  This remember was not against South Africa or India for example.

It's not for Cook and Flower who led and selected the squad to turn round and say "I was wrong about you, him and him also" and "you, him and also you are responsible for nearly losing me my job"

We need a replacement for Flower, who should be free to enthuse and motivate a new squad of players he chooses to pick (and if that includes Cook as skipper  that would be his choice, so fine)

[Nomoreheroes]

So, where do we go from here?

Do we make changes at the top? Is it the end for Flower, Gooch and Saker?

Do we bring in the likes of Bopara (who I don't think is good enough), Alex Hales (who seems to have become a slash and bash merchant), Taylor (who is too short) as batting contenders? Are any better than Bell & Pietersen?

What do we do at wicketkeeper? Do we go back to Prior or look forward to Kieswetter, Buttler or Bairstow? None of whom are good enough keepers nor improve the batting.

Are Carberry or Root really answers to who to open with Cook? Does captaincy weigh heavy on Cook and affect his batting?

Do we persist with Anderson, who seems to have lost the ability to move the ball? Whats the future of the giant drinks waiters?

What do we do about spin? Tredwell, Borthwick, Monty or Patel? I think Rory Hamilton-Brown was being groomed as a future England captain (sort of in the Brearley mould) who could bat and bowl a bit of spin, but he seems to have lost it since Tom Maynard's death.

I think at the moment we only have 3 positions nailed down:

Cook (but not necessarily as captain)
Broad (but I'd ideally like him at 1st change)
Stokes (batting at 6/7 and 2nd change would be ideal)

Interesting to see what happens next?

[Nemo]

I think Gooch probably has to go, 25 innings or something ridiculous since 400 scored. Saker should be fine, the bowlers have largely done well and been let down - although someone needs to be hired as a specialist Steven Finn coach to work out what the hell they've done to him.

For me Prior and Trott come back presuming both want to and both start alright in County Cricket. If Trott isn't coming back it complicates things severely. If we need a new keeper I'd look at Davies or Kieswetter, Buttler is a supreme talent but doesn't play the long game well yet.

Root is a big part of England's future but probably not an opener yet- I think Simon Katich is a good example, took a long time to mature into a top order player. KP needs to feel loved to play his best, I've seen Vaughan suggest the vice captaincy- certainly something needs to be done.

Very difficult decisons and very interesting all round. Gun to my head to pick a side for Sri Lanka at home?

Cook, Chopra, Trott, KP, Bell, Stokes, Prior, Broad, Onions, Kerrigan, Anderson

Still think Kerrigan is a better spinner, nerves aside, than anyone else bar Monty and it's clear that Monty isn't in favour. If Finn is fixed then he should be in the team but I'm not expecting him to be. If Trott doesn't play again Root at 5 Bell to 3.

We should resist going all out youth- Aussies have done very well bringing in experienced pros (Johnson, Harris, Rogers...Bailey not so much) and we shouldn't pick a player just because they're young. If they're good enough, fine, but none of the young bowlers are better than Onions and none of the batsmen better than Trott/KP/Bell


Of the touring squad I'd be surprised if Rankin, Monty, Carberry, Tremlett, Swann (obviously) and Trott (pleasantly) ever pull on an England shirt again. That's a whole lot of change.

[fittons_coaching_badge]

So, where do we go from here?

Do we make changes at the top? Is it the end for Flower, Gooch and Saker?

Do we bring in the likes of Bopara (who I don't think is good enough), Alex Hales (who seems to have become a slash and bash merchant), Taylor (who is too short) as batting contenders? Are any better than Bell & Pietersen?

What do we do at wicketkeeper? Do we go back to Prior or look forward to Kieswetter, Buttler or Bairstow? None of whom are good enough keepers nor improve the batting.

Are Carberry or Root really answers to who to open with Cook? Does captaincy weigh heavy on Cook and affect his batting?

Do we persist with Anderson, who seems to have lost the ability to move the ball? Whats the future of the giant drinks waiters?

What do we do about spin? Tredwell, Borthwick, Monty or Patel? I think Rory Hamilton-Brown was being groomed as a future England captain (sort of in the Brearley mould) who could bat and bowl a bit of spin, but he seems to have lost it since Tom Maynard's death.

I think at the moment we only have 3 positions nailed down:

Cook (but not necessarily as captain)
Broad (but I'd ideally like him at 1st change)
Stokes (batting at 6/7 and 2nd change would be ideal)

Interesting to see what happens next?

This is a good post.  I shall expand with my opinions.

The sad truth is the best of what is out there went on tour to Australia.  There isn't much out there.

Yes Flower, Gooch and Saker stay but the game plan needs to change.  There was a sea change from the 3rd test back in England. Aus would have own the 3rd test but for rain. England only won the 4th because of a Broad magic spell and England only had a sniff in the 5th because of a generous Clarke declaration.  Even at 2 and 3 nil up England were impotent with the bat in terms of run rates and pitches doctored to kingdom come to get Swann in the game. England need to be active, not necesarily putting every other ball to the ropes but even finding 1's and 2's and rotating the strike. Too often were the Aussies allowed to settle into a spell almost unchallenged.

I expect we have seen the last of Carberry, think Root will shift up to open in the summer. Bell at 3, KP at 4, Ballance at 5 and Stokes at 6.

I would be stunned if Prior wasnt given the chance to re-establish himself with the gloves and bat at 7.

Anderson didnt move the ball a jot but that will change in the summer. Last year pitches were deliberately left dry, next year they will practically start underwater and with sub continental opposition will move from the off.

You could argue and I would subscribe to the theory that, that approach will just put a sticky plaster over the problems.

I would go with Anderson and Broad as certs.  This is a massive summer in the life of Steve Finn. I personally would leave him out the one day games and send him on the A tour to Sri Lanka in March and tell him to bowl. Hopefully he would have some confidence and get the first crack in the summer.

That leaves a spot for the spinner ... Panesar is the best spinner in England but clearly Cook/Flower don't trust him. This is complicated by the fact SL and India who come in the summer are traditionally good players of spin. Borthwick took 4 wickets in the 5th test but 2 were caught in New Zealand and Haddin dragged on a full toss.  There was a long hop or full toss every over and he would get taken apart. But he would add to the batting which Flower/Cook like.

I would go Panesar but think we wont see him again in an England shirt and Borthwick with get first go.

The upside for England is the standard of test cricket is that poor the next half decent side they will play will be the Aussies again in 2015  .

[fittons_coaching_badge]

I'm sure I'll be in a minority of 1 but I really don't think MJ has bowled as well as 37 at 14 apiece.

Apparently something like 7% of his deliveries would have hit the stumps. He hasn't really swung it or seamed it. He's bowled absolute gas but that shouldn't be enought to get test players out. We've made him look good.

Haddin should have been man of the series.

Truth of the matter is the best batsmen rarely get out bowled unless the ball moves. Johnson didn't move a ball. It was quick, straight and intimidating.

I heard a stat half asleep on TMS that against numbers 8-11 he had taken 17/38 or something similar.

[sonicyouth]

Why don't Flower/Cook trust Panesar? I don't understand it myself.

[fittons_coaching_badge]

Why don't Flower/Cook trust Panesar? I don't understand it myself.

Doesnt bat and his catching is scandelous.

[TheMajorSTFC]

Why don't Flower/Cook trust Panesar? I don't understand it myself.

Things like this SY - http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2534148/Just-HOURS-Englands-Ashes-humiliation-cricketer-using-dating-app-tempt-blonde-hotel-room.html

Panesar known to have off field issues and has for the past few years, whether he's sorted them out I'm not sure.

[leefer]

Doesnt bat and his catching is scandelous.

Strange that...i seem to remember him batting out a draw on a dodgy pitch in Wales which was a massive contribution to us gaining the Ashes a few years back....he is our best spinner by miles,batting and catching is nothing to do with it really.
Sadly by the time we thought of using him it was to late.,,,even Swan said it was a great chance for Monty,very strange he didn't play.

[chalkies_shorts]

He'd piss all over the opposition

[Nemo]

Talk (From the Telegraph, so not just made up shit) that Pietersen and Flower have fallen out the point where Flower will resign if he's selected again.

Joy.

[DMR]

If Flower would rather sack it off because he can't be bothered to deal with 1 individual then good riddance.

KP is a world class player and shouldn't be the scapegoat for this debacle of a tour.

[Nomoreheroes]

I don't think Pietersen should be the ONLY scapegoat from the tour.

If he, or any of the other senior players, are not pulling their weight or gelling as part of a team then they should be out - Just as many people have stated on here about Nile Ranger.

I found the Telegraph article interesting. I'd thought that England didn't look to be a happy team, but I hadn't put it down to Flower and Pietersen.

Anyone got a link for the squad for the ODIs ? Not sure how different it is?

[TheMajorSTFC]

Interesting article on the KP subject, with rumours of Flower not wanting him, Michael Vaughan recommending him to become test vice-captain and Pietersen himself, injuries and goals before retiring: http://www.espncricinfo.com/the-ashes-2013-14/content/current/story/707677.html

ODI Squad: England ODI squad: Alastair Cook (captain), Gary Ballance, Ian Bell, Ravi Bopara, Tim Bresnan, Danny Briggs, Stuart Broad, Jos Buttler, Michael Carberry, Steve Finn, Chris Jordan, Eoin Morgan, Boyd Rankin, Joe Root, Ben Stokes, James Tredwell

T20 Squad: Stuart Broad (captain), Ravi Bopara, Tim Bresnan, Danny Briggs, Jos Buttler, Jade Dernbach, Steve Finn, Alex Hales, Michael Lumb, Eoin Morgan, Boyd Rankin, Joe Root, Ben Stokes, James Tredwell, Luke Wright.