Thetownend.com

Rovers away and Scum at home. Two big games, genuinely nervous about both given our squad and lack of quality.  Posted on here previously highlighting my concerns of Power, unfortunately those concerns- awful singings, dwindling crowds have unfortunately proved right. At what point do those constantly defending Power become concerned? Lifelong supporters patience tested to the maximum and refusing to part with hard earned cash for season tickets again until there is a positive change.  For me, lose the next two games and even the most optimistic had to surely question Power. Personally, never felt so depressed supporting Swindon.

I've never been part of the Power out brigade, but Saturday has me questioning whether I can justify the time & money to go and watch them any more.

A loss to the Gas & even worse a humiliation at home to the Scum may just be the straw.

I understand the arguments of sustainability, and fundamentally we have no choice unless we can find someone who is willing to piss away money for nothing on us.

However, the lack of entertainment & enjoyment from going to games with little prospect of any improvement is getting to the point where I'm having second thoughts.

Football used to be the time we spent together as a family, but with my son away at University & my wife having passed away last year it's a lonely trek down to be made even more depressed, but it's the feeling that this is our lot until something changes in the boardroom.

Short answer: Not that happy, but no real options. Got to suck it in and hope. The alternative is to proactively pressure him - which will go one of three way (in order of likelihood) - ignored, badly, luck out on an unexpectedly good new owner.

Long answer:
I'm not defending Power. I think the current policy of youth approach is too extreme. For me the aim has to be more to look forward to than "develop a few Prem academy flops, flog em on, try and stay in the league". Its only ever worked when tactics Tim leant/sold us the Spurs lot - so far anyway

However...without the benefit of actual detailed accounts (and the accountants to interpret them) Its hard to see if sustainability can be done another way. Powers way may actually be the safest way financially.

Alternatively, if he's taking the club for a ride then he's not going to give it up.

I've done my share of protesting at more clear cut dodgy regimes. I think we'll have to sit this period out and hope the next owner is richer.

Also...
1.
If the number of people that say they aren't renewing don't, then we may see some change to the approach.

2. Want to see how the transfer Window finishes before commenting on whether TS is totally useless.

The more people stay away the more the budget will be cut and the more shit signings we'll get. Vicious cycle but people are daft if they think people staying away will change anything for the better.

I'm not saying don't stay away, just expect it to get worse if you do.

And its posts like this that sadden me most, we always have transient fans, but when the most committed feel like this .....

That's not a dig Posh, totally understand. I live in Swindon and take my boys - if they weren't going I'd feeling the same (then probably renew anyway). And that's without travel.

For sustainability to be accepted, albeit reluctantly, by fans, they need to see the figures backing it up. Otherwise more and more fans will equate Power's version of sustainability as a shroud to line his own pockets - a view held by more than a few 'excitable' fans since his arrival.

Personally, I think the biggest danger of the present system is the total apathy permeating the fanbase.

I don't think people are staying away in the expectation that it changes things. At least *most* that I've talked to (not that many) have been about the enjoyment being sucked out of it all. Maybe my sample size isn't large enough.

But if the model becomes unworkable then things will change. Can this mode work in league 2, or the conference?

Fair replies. You are right Talis. I still go to home games but do not enjoy it and do it because I support Swindon. However, numbers are at all time low, for me defeat to Oxford again will be bitter, bitter pill to swallow so just hope we avoid at all costs. I have said from day one that I do not grist power, however as a poster points out, unless we have a wealthy benefactor what is the alternative. For me, I think the only way he will consider going is when crowds really do fall, carry on with policy and this will be soon., financially will cost him, hopefully then we can see if and a big if there is anyone out there who will give us a team to be proud of. Live in hope.

Good job the internet wasn't around in the early/mid eighties when we truly were awful. Half the fan base would have topped themselves. Today isn't anything compared to then boy's and girls. At least after a shit performance you don't get a knuckle sandwich to help you on the way home.

No they're not. You've made some good points, but don't make things up to strengthen your opinion.

Sutton's right. Most of us have known it worse than this, but the grumblings by the average fan are heard louder and by more people.

Bit harsh to have a go at him for his singing. We're not all blessed with a good voice.

Fucking hell....so much this. We used to be REALLY fucking shit and played in front of crowds of under 2,500 week in week out.

WTF? What kind of fucking weirdo would line their pockets with a shroud? Jesus.

Dunno, scum away back in September was lively, fuckers stitch up right up in the fact we have to get from train station to ground in tiny groups.  Scum then relish picking on small numbers of Swindon, not so keen after though when numbers are more even.  I digress! Back to the subject matter, unless Power has a sudden change of heart we are going to have to put up with this dross until he realises fans will not part with hard earned cash to watch substandard players no one else wants. Very depressing.  Only 18 months or so ago we had a squad to be proud of, now we have a squad who may take us into league 2.

Harking back to All Our Yesterdays is a valid point.

When we were crap in the 80s it was virtually accepted as just being 'our turn'. As far as we knew every similar club ebbed and flowed just the same. Budgets were unheard of or thought about. We were all about the same, weren't we? We'll be back in a few seasons when it's our turn again, won't we?

Now we know the ins and outs of most clubs and comparisons are easily made.

Fair point panda paws re attendances, I stand corrected. What I meant was in regards to lads I go with and have been for years, the interest in attending is all time low. Early 80's (a few years before my time) crowds were a lot lower.

Not even close as recently as the early 2000's we had a sub 3.5k home league gate against Cambridge and many around the 4.5k mark. It was only when Fitton rocked up the: http://www.swindon-town-fc.co.uk/Results.asp?Season=2000-2001 that the average rose above the 4.5/5k mark.

We get you don't like Power but don't just make stuff up!

We really don't. People just assume they do on the basis of some half-arsed shite they've read on Facebook/another forum etc etc. Most of the figures claimed and comparisons based on them are utter drivel.

But they are FACTS, aren't they?

The problem GL5 that team were too good for this league, we got very lucky picking up players like Luongo, Pritchard, Mason, Stephens and Bryne, looks where P, M and S are now? Prem regulars.

It feels like a big step back but that's the life of Swindon, we have a good season and then dross for a while, while the owner tries to rebuild the squad to go again. Only 7 (ish) years ago, Danny Wilson got us to the play offs then relegated the next season, that's Swindon for you.

The accounts for 2014-2015 should be out very soon so we will know some of the finances in regards to the club, which the main questions are:

 - are we profitable
 - how much money is Power making from the club

He has unfortunately burnt too many bridges with his approach to the fans I am afraid, he could have easily got the fans on side at the start and is now paying the price as a minority don't trust him as he hasn't been as open with them as he should have.

This, I can tell you almost every club is loss making, how much and who owns the debt......... but when these clubs are spending money and Power ain't, they will get on his back as they want what the others have.

I think they may be alternative facts, a la Trump

This is true, and maybe it was the naivety of youth, but at that time I actually thought things were going to get better at some point.

With where we are now I can't see any way out.
At the end of this season most of the team will be gone & we will have to rebuild again, in comes another stream of kids that find it hard to cope physically with League 1 or (god forbid) league two and we struggle again turn it around just enough to stay up and then the cycle starts again.

We may get lucky that the new faces all gel and we have a decent season, but if we do and don't get promoted (which history shows is quite likely) we are probably back to square one for the season after

Name a club, I can tell you how much money they lost in their last financial record (which will be 2014-15) as it's all public information  :beers:

Fuck off you can. You can say what was in some club's accounts from a couple of years ago, assuming they've actually filed on time, which doesn't tell half the story and says precisely fuck all about how the club was actually being run then, much less now.

And, as I said above, that will tell you precisely fuck all about how the club was being run then, much less now

I can tell you what their recorded profit / loss was, this is public information available to anyone.......... Oxford lost 2.5m last time they filed their records, Colchester lost £2m on sales of £3.5m  ;)

I understand that there were around 7.5m supporters at the County Ground on Saturday!

That beats the attendance at the Dallas Stars games, which was officially announced as only 1.5m in response to Trump's decleration :)

Presumably also means there's more money available for transfers now

Actually the only thing that is fairly clear is that Power was looking to make money out of the club its all going down the shitter and his ability to make cash will be further eroded if we get relegated.

I do wonder whether he has just lost interest....

Yeah, lovely. That tells you what the business declared as profit/loss 2-3 years ago, and a little bit about their turnover back then, if they filed on time. It tells you little or sod all about how the club was actually being run even back then, and nothing about how they're being run now, which was the original point made. And you have fuck all idea about who really owns club's debts, you just know what is in the accounts.

Only English ones obviously!

Nah, bet he's still charging interest on the loans :)

At the end of the day, Power has alienated fans with his approach on the field...... that's what most fans give a shit about, he may have secured the club financially but how many fans actually care that much, the fans pay for entertainment and that's been lacking for the last 2 seasons due to the way him / Luke decided they wanted the players too play (slow and boring is used a lot).

I believe we have the quality to beat most teams in this poor league but due to the way they are told to play we never get the best out of the players and end up losing because we just don't take the game to the opposition and we are strict in our play, there is no flexibility especially when teams come here and sit everyone behind the ball. We only seem to win when teams come at us as we can then get behind them. P'boro was the same, they sat back and soaked up the pressure and made it seem easy, we didn't do enough to put them under much pressure.

Predictions for next two games?? I will go defeat to Rovers and beat scum (somehow). 11k optimistic for scum at home? (Given they have sold 2,800).

This gets pushed about but no one has ever been really been able to make money from the club, Power would have had to perform miracles (or do illegal things) to make the numbers which some fans believe has been made. The club has always been loss making (Black / Fitton wiped off £9m of historic debt) and then still wrote off another £3m when they left. Power came in with the club losing £4m a year so had to "sort the shit out" which he has said is now done (will be seen in the new accounts).

Once you take out wages, bills, player fees etc....... there isn't a lot left in the pot to take, he is here for to make money for himself (and the club hopefully) but how much he has been able to make is anyones guess).

Yes I think it was more so that we were young (I was 16 in 1982) and having only watched us for about 6 or 7 years I was still full of optimism so things felt good.

We had a couple of good seasons like 79/80 but in the main we were pretty shit, and we knew we were shit but we made the most of it, football was fun (in the main) and anybody could beat anybody else, it was like some said "our time to be shit" other seasons we did ok but there was none of the saturation of football on TV back then.

It was Soccer Saturday/Saint & Greavsie or it was Football Focus/Match of the day....that was it for football on TV week in week out.

Now fans EXPECT success and quickly because some clubs have done it, we have done it.... but have settled at our natural level again...flitting between Div 3 and Div 4.....we will get some good...some bad seasons.....thats how football is.

There is so much money in football that all fans of all clubs want a piece of that success.

Not every club can have a rich owner, most in the lower leagues live hand to mouth season to season unless they have a rich owner in the background or have a massive following otherwise we are all the in the same boat.

Sometimes you get lucky with players sometimes you don't.....currently we don't.

Sometimes the players click and play well together...sometimes they don't.

Sometimes the manager has fans backing.....etc etc

Shit seasons happen, good seasons happen...we can't all be Arsenal/Man Utd/Man City or even Boremuff with their silly spending.

Power would love nothing more than get the formula right, get the players performing well, going up the league....dare I say even promotion....because a club in the Championship is a hugely better proposition to sell than a club in League 1 and again League 2.....why would he deliberately get the club relegated which will cost him money if it goes tits up?

He wants us in a higher division so we make more money and would be a better prospect for a new buyer.....its not brain surgery.

At the moment there is no alternative to Power, he puts the club up for sale what will that acheive? absolutely nothing.....if someone has money and will pay what Power wants (what paid for the club plus a bit extra) then they will come and buy the club or at least make a bid.

Where are they? where were they when we were looking for a new owner previously? wake up and smell the coffee....they arent out there.

Exactly, but don't say that on the FB group as we are a premier league team stuck in L1  :D


Exactly, we have always been a yo-yo club, never been consistent


Exacto mundo, how many came forward when Black put us up for sale? 2 if I remember and we got left with Jed and how did that turn out? He didn't have a pot to piss in and tried to get a fraudster to finance him (http://www.thisiswiltshire.co.uk/news/10513407.Swindon_Town_investor_Greg_Hall_was_part_of_rogue_firm/).

Again, go on the FB group as they think if we are put up for sale, a millionair from Italy is willing to buy us or some shit  ???

No, we were in Div 3S or Div 3 from 1920 to 1963.

There's nothing intrinsically wrong with the model. It just needs to be operated better. It's failing in Power's terms as we're not adding value to the scraps we're picking up from the heap.

This means it's failing in our terms as we're having to watch sub Div 3 standard football, but pay good money for it.

This can't go on. Something will give and and the next 10 days or so will settle it.

One rumour keeps popping up on the FB group is that Ian wright is buying the club with a consortium  ::)

Lose both and the coaching staff, whoever they may be, are dead to me.

Lose both and don't think I can stomach anymore this season. Not knee jerk but costs, time etc and the return from this simply not good enough. We owe scum and the thought of losing to them again doesn't bare thinking about. Fingers crossed the players are up for it and we pay them back.

RE: attendances, I think the true impact of stay aways won't be accounted for until next season because most people having their last straw with Power seems to have happened this season.

We sold a reasonable number of season tickets in the early birds last season and these are accounted for if they turn up or not. Wait and see the numbers next year if things keep on with this trend. If Power has the gal to up the prices even nominally, we could be looking at Cambridge at home under King type attendances again.

Great points Chalkey. Of the lads I go/drink with I can only think of one who is renewing, the rest will not tolerate anymore under Power. In my opinion as pretty obvious by my threads, sooner he goes the better.

yes but seriously....who will replace him? there is nobody out there...at all.

No sugar daddy, no trust with enough money....who do you suggest?

The sad injury suffered by Ryan Mason yesterday made me recall his display away at Wolves in the 13/14 season. As a result I spent most of my lunch watching highlights from that season and realising that my memory hadn't been rose tinted, we really did play some exciting football that year.

All I want is to get that back. Amusingly, that side were highly criticised at the time but I found it entertaining to watch.

Put the club for sale and we can see. He is the current owner who is therfore responsible for this squad and responsible for why more and more loyal supporters are voting with their feet. How long can he continue to charge £25 and field as team consisting mainly of players taken because they are therfore cheapest option? Even those i speak to now who had previously supported him have zero faith in him and concede so long as he is at the helm the product on the pitch will be substandard.

For who?

Unless he can find another owner willing to buy the club, he ain't going anywhere and football club owners are a dying breed especially with what "fans" expect of them.

You have 2 types of owners:

fans - they are genuine fans of the club but have made a lot of money so willing to put it into the club and if they lose a few mil then it's fine. The problem is they soon get bored and hand over to someone else

investors - they are people wanting to make money from the club, they will come in, initially spenf a bit of cash to try and get promoted (Black) and when it doesn't happen for whatever reason they get bored and cost cut to try and get the club balanced so it doesn't lose them anymore money (SISU at Coventry).

Personally I think we are stuck with Power for a long time, there isn't many people out there with the money needed to turn this club around (hence why we have budgets under Power) and we have had our fair share of fan owners over the years so there isn't many others out there to ask so will be a football investor who will want to make money.

Well if he is a so called businessman (bone of contention) then we will see how long he puts up with losing money each week as loyal fans will not part with cash to watch dross on the pitch. Previously he sold all the stars but now aside from the keeper no other player is worth anything.

You must be from the Facebook group, such a doom monger........... if not, you will fit right in there.......

We are in the harsh realities, we are s small L1 club with little income, unless we have a sugar daddy, we aren't going to have a team of 20k a week pro's....... we go through stages of good pros and poorer pro's, that's lower league football for you

Pretty much this, not sure about the last statement saying we will have Power for a long time, as I am certain one good offer for the club and he will leave......but....and its a massive but...there are no offers on the table.

Look what happened last time the club was put up for sale.....we were 3rd in the league 1 (I think) with a great chance of promotion and who came along as THE ONLY BIDDER? Jed Mcrory, having him and his band of merry theives as the only interested party should tell you all you need to know about how viable we are for any buyer.

Exactly, but "it's so different now"  ???

No Facebook group Gareth. You must be one of those that claps at any old shit.  Probably clap the players off after losing at scum away back in September. Agree to disagree.

The biggest challenge in finding new owners is what you have to offer- outside of the fun of chucking your hard earned cash down the drain for the fun of football.

We don't own our own ground.
We don't own any other significant assets
We are in L1 so TV revenue is minimal

Essentially, even SISU wouldn't have purchased us, and they look to be far worse than anything Power could muster.

We got lucky with Black - a bunch of mates with some cash who fancied a flutter - low chance of that happening again.  Jed and Power are the likely types you get - people with minimal personal wealth who fancy themselves as having a magic way of running a club on a break even approach - Jed a complete chancer, Power thinking that having insider knowledge would mean he could try something different and it would work.

If he were to sell, I reckon somebody would buy us, but it would be more likely we get another Jed than a Black.  The Trust should be doing everything it can to build the alternative model - they get very little buy in from Power anyway, so they may as well burn those bridges and work on the exit strategy for him, building roofs is clearly not working for them.

Oh, and we'd still be mediocre with a new owner - it's the way of things since money flooded in at the higher levels.  Bournemouth are actually ruining it for the rest of us - a public image of poor boys done well, when in reality it's a highly leveraged business gamble that paid off when usually you get Bury as your result.

Exactly but the trust do have some wealthy individuals on their board but one of them said he wouldn't be interested in buying the club, he has sponsored both STFC and the speedway but just can't see himself owning the club. Can't see anyone buying Power out as it's going to cost a few bob, once you add on paying off Black and giving the manager (and replacing the current one) funds to buy players, it's not going to be in the realms of many.

The saddest thing from our past 20 years, well one of them, was not being able to disentangle SSW from Diamandis.  The other was the wasted opportunity of the Black money - a bit like how Swindon managed to go through 13 years of financial boom and still not manage a Town Centre redevelopment.  Having spunked all that money to just get us back to where we were I probably a cautionary enough tale to anyone thinking of buying us, which explains how we get people like Jed interested.

:D

All this business about Power in it to make money is probably true - in the long term.  He wanted a self-sustainable club that he could sell on and recoup all of the money he had ploughed in - and it must have been a fair bit as we have not had a whisper of administration since he has been here.  Let us not forget that Fitton was responsible for getting Austin to the club and got a tidy whack out of it when he was sold - even though he had relinquished control by then (I think!).

No you are wrong, he is taking every penny out of the club at the moment and spending it all on Lamborghini's and Waterford.....  :D

Because Power said he was in it for money, that's all the Facebook group go on, if Power wasn't milking the club we would have money to buy players blah blah blah but forget we spent £600k this summer on players and Power has spent in the region 1.6m on players on 4 years, most of them have moved on and has tried to replace them but when you have players like Luongo you can't just find a similar player waiting for a club to snap them up and they command a high fee, most of our players that we sell on come in as kids with potential and then get sold for big bux in 2/3 years, seems the current crop aren't as good as Power hoped though.

I didn't see anyone clap after that shit.

In one post you show your true colours yet again.... every couple of months you pop up on here with your usual doom and gloom and as soon as people start offering a different opinion or ask you to suggest alternatives your posts deteriorate to petty insults and ignoring people's questions to you.

Every thread you have posted is the same, have you ever posted anything remotely positive?

Theakston, oh the irony. Aren't you doing exactly what you are accusing me of? Because you don't agree you are saying I am showing my true colours.  Do you want me to apologise for being concerned that we have a team who are incapable of entertaining the fans? I find it strange yes how people are not concerned with Power. Also, if you read the threads someone actually makes a valid point about attendees which I acknowledge I was wrong and take on board what they say. Unlucky sunshine.

Oh, but there will be. There always is. It just might not be the insane sugar daddy the fantasists are after. Far more likely the HK con artist that Birmingham got, the asset-stripping Thais at Reading or the likes of Cellino at Leeds. Be very very careful what you wish for. The grass isn't always greener. But some fans are.

There's a difference between rational concern and making unstantiated accusations. You do realise that if Power put the club up for sale as you want and there was no takers then outcome could be catastrophic?

(https://i.redd.it/q9yc69e82b8y.gif)

Exactly but "anything is better than Power"  ???

I suppose the next 7 days will reveal if he has any real interest in progressing the club. If this window consists of the 4 loanees and nobody else I think it would be safe to say he aint.

The Chelsea 3, irrespective of their ability, are exactly the sort of player we didn't need in this predicament.

I still don't understand this "he doesn't care if we get relegated" stuff. He's in it for money, not for love (like 99% of owners, I'd add) and regardless of whether his 'system' is working or not surely he'd make more money in L1 than the conference?

The Tim Sherwood fiasco doesn't help either.

If, as we are led to believe, he decides on the formation & picks the team where is he on match days.
He doesn't appear on the sidelines, doesn't come out and explain what went wrong & more importantly what he is going to do to change it.
We are left with Williams who appears to have run out of ideas, and doesn't really want the job.

The problem is, not many clubs are willing to sell at the moment...... especially the calibre of players the fans think we should be signing...... It's a busy window and not many are going to let their gems go unless you spend over the odds (Lookman to Everton) because clubs either want promotion or survive relegation.

I am hoping we get 2 in this week, a defender and an attacker

Sherwood was only announced as DOF to keep the fans onside and to make it look like they were arsed about the whole shambles IMO

I suppose that if his model is to tie income to budget then margins stay similar and only the product on the pitch is likely to suffer.

Perfect storm.

I agree with this but Sherwood is supposedly refuses to be the face of the team while it isn't his so leaves it down to Williams as he put the team together with Power.

Now the question is, will that change in the summer when the clear out starts and Sherwood can bring in some permanent recruits or has this all been a big soap drama and he has no intention of being the face of the club.

How many DOF's are on the touchline though? not many, Dof's normally have hands on from the side and let the coaches do the day to do day stuff so can't see him suddenly coming out and talking to the media. We don't have the normal system here, we don't have a manager, we have coaches and a DoF but the fans don't seem to grasp that and see Williams as the manager, Williams only does the media duties as there is no one else (apart from Embleton).

If we were winning, no one would bat an eyelid at this but because we aren't, Williams gets the flack for not being "assertive with the players".

We'll know one way or the other at the end of this window.

Would help if the head coach actually got off his arse from the bench and geed the players up from time to time mind

Out of interest who are the wealthy owners you refer to? & what context are you putting wealthy in? Wealthy as in compared to the average man or what I would call 'football wealthy', as in they could actually afford to invest in/run the club if they wanted to?

I wouldnt say they are football wealthy but probably on same level as Power, runs a successful company in Swindon (not hard to guess which, sponsored the club and speedway), they would be the right fit as they are a STFC fan, has a season ticket and has money but probably not enough to burn into a club, maybe they would come in as a consortium?

I don't wanna say names but they are on the Trust board and run a successful Swindon based company  :beers:

Would it make a difference? The players know the game plan, what is a coach going to achieve by throwing his toys out of the pram on the touchline? There are two ways to manage, Luke prefers the relaxed approach

Isn't this the second home game in which the ref has been brought over to have a word with Williams and/or Embleton?

No idea but the last thing we need is him getting sent off considering the FA already kick our asses everytime our players approach the referee, but do f all about other teams doing it.......... I am not one for conspiracy theories but ....  ;)

James Phipps I see more of someone who could help run a trust led club, not someone to take it on himself.

I'm working on a plan, and on an unrelated note anyone got 6 numbers. must wait until a quadruple euro rollover

 :clap:

it's not a secret. the trust publicly announced him in December 2015 (not 2025, add as previously stated) and he's talked about not wanting/being able to take over on Twitter before.

There may be no club left by 2025  :)

I know that but how many fans are aware of him being on the TRust? I only know because he gets on the FB group answering questions from time to time

He may still make a profit but that's not the same as saying he doesn't care - who wouldn't want to make as much as possible?


Well, it worked for Newport!
..for a bit...

I don't think anyone is saying we should, are they?

I guessed that Phipps was one but couldn't think of his name. Who are the others? Don't think there's an issue in naming them as it will be public knowledge if they're a trust member. How much are The Mail paying Morshead these days?  :hmmm:...........

You are being charitable, we have some seriously ..damaged fans you know

I wouldn't say wouldn't care if we got relegated, but I could see a strong case for wouldn't care for us going up. Promotion would bring calls for increases to the budget and transfers. Complications that IF he simply has the club running break even whilst also taking two or three hundred grand for himself every year he could do without.

one name mentioned on the FB group ......... Ricky Lambert  ???

fackin phone

Fair one.

http://www.truststfc.com/trust-stfc-board

If the club can make enough to pay him 300k a year then fair play to him considering we couldn't string 2 pennies together when he took over. He makes his cut from transfers, when we sell a player he will take a fee (he is basically the agent), how much no one knows but I don't think he would be taking money from the "club funds" which would be money used to pay the rent and bills.

entirely possible he could make money it the club. no evidence he is , but it's possible.

for example, he lent the club money. hell want a return on that. fair enough IMO, but is the return at a reasonable rate.

is he supplying stewarding? If so is he charging fmv?

same with the transfer dealings as you said.
-------
don't get me wrong , who knows the reality could be he's personally loss making in order to set the club up long term for sale.

just pointing out it's not impossible.

Fair play to him if he is? No, just no. It couldn't be justified as being 'basically the agent' we'll be paying out agents fees as well when we buy in.

We couldn't string two pennies together when he took over becuase the budget was too high, but you seen to think that reducing it down to a shoe string is some sort of magic trick and for doing it he should be entitled to take money from the club?

Gareth, I get the impression that we could suggest anything or Power could do anything and you'd defend him to the end. Its clearly something you're passionate about, but why? What's your motive?

he admitted on a phone-in, he gets paid a fee for the money he has loaned the club but didn't admit to what rate it was (exact words were, I don't know, my accountants deal with it).


Not far off, he is a director of the company that supplies the stewards to the club


He is making money, that's pretty much guaranteed but it's much smaller than what is thought, if it was that easy to make money, none of the previous owners would have given it up so easy.

To be honest I'd defend James Constable against 'suggestions' if there was very little basis to them. Doesn't mean I've got an ulterior motive, just an aversion to bullshit.

We don't use agents, everything goes through Power as far as I am aware, he basically said that on a phone-in


No, did I say that? If the club is making money then surely the owner is in their right to be paid a wage for running that business, it's not his problem the business was badly run before, he came in, made it more reasonable and if he can keep the business afloat and take a wage, that's surely what a business is about, to pay the owner for their hard work, doesn't matter if it's a football club or a takeaway.


I have and will critisize him, he is far from perfect BUT as a fellow business owner, I hope he is doing what he is doing for the benefit of the club and I will be the first to hold my hands up if it comes out he has been ripping the club off BUT I will not just make comments like "he must be making 300k a year from us" without evidence, which I cannot find any so give him the benefit of the doubt.

this  :nod:

Literally not what I said at all. I said IF that is what he is doing (given that a lot of peole believe that is why he is here) then I could understand why he wouldn't even want to get promoted (as opposed to peole who say he wouldn't care if we got relegated). You essentially came back with 'even if he is, fair play to him, no problems there' which I found a bit of a shock even coming from you.

I said:

If the club can make enough to pay him 300k a year then fair play to him

If we can afford is totally different to saying, he can take whatever he likes...... If your business makes £2m profit a year, how much would you value your work in getting the business to that stage? Look at the top pay for the top businessmen, they earn millions for what they do, Power is in business to make money just like everyone else so if he can build a business that can afford to pay him 300k a year then he must have done something right

Considering we were losing £4m a year when he came in, it would have to be a massive swing of a minimum £5m for him to realistically take out 300k a year.

how does anyone know that it's smaller than thought?

all that I am saying is that with a sole owner the position has the potential to be abused, not least by conflicts of interest. there is no accountability and no checks and balances are in place to ensure he acts solely in stfc's best interest. it could be argued of course that he's majority shareholder, so that's tough tits.

if transparency isn't his thing, which is admittedly at his discretion, then of course he's going to be quite rightly questioned on it. Certain people on the Facebook group obviously go far too far on that - that's just stupid.

and yes I an quite aware of his 'i don't know, one for the accountant' answer on BBC rs. I asked the question (indirectly). I'm calling bullshit on the reply too. I'm sure he knew but he wanted it kept private, be that merely on principle or on it not sounding favourable.

I have a very simplistic view of the situation.

- Power buys the club to make money.
- Has his own ideas about how to achieve success on the field and still cut costs
- This plan doesn't work all the time

Anything above that is rumour and gossip.

Is he running the club into the ground to line his own pocket ? Dunno. But there's little evidence for that, other than the fact people are upset - Sherwood was a genius appointment when we beat Charlton, the next dismal loss it was just a smokescreen and a lie to appease the fans apparently.

I often replay that turn NT made/failed to make to let Beckford score the first at Wembley and wonder if people would be saying the same things had the game turned out differently. I suspect they would not.

Basically, the "facts" change according to what happens on the pitch, and the actual facts get lost somewhere in between.

TL;DR I'm Power's wife.

agree with most of that Mrs Power, other than Sherwood. didn't think he was a smokescreen. just a shit appointment.

I've stated to come round to the smokescreen idea mind :)

haha pretty much spot on, what's going on in the club depends on who you ask and who they asked....

You know what they say about opinions, they are like assholes, everyone has one  :D

But why could the club potentially make enough money to make him that figure? It's clearly not because he has used his great business mind to increase revenues so drastically he deserves to take a bit off the top, is it? The answer is because we have a budget that is so wafer thin that gives us essentially fuck all chance of doing anything in this league without tactics Tim gifting him players at Spurs since he has lost his contacts and burned his bridges. So on that basis, no, it wouldn't be a situation of 'fair play' for me at all.

Surely part of the 'plan' as it is (whatever you think about it) is to exploit Power's connections as a former player?
It's not a fact that we haven't succeeded just because we haven't got Spurs boys being thrown at us anymore - we've just had 3 Chelsea players come to us who look very capable.

We'll see how they turn out, but the connections were clearly missing over the summer and that seems to be the first decent sign of any again since Sherwood left Spurs. Hopefully the Chelsea three will be of Mason, Luongo quality and we will live to fight another season in League One and see what his contacts can drum up in the summer.

We are never going to be able to increase revenue in the "club" to a level that was sustainable (another £4m a year) so costs had to be cut. As an example, Zurich yesterday announced job cuts to cust costs....... and they are billions, we are small millions. Every business big or small has to cut costs accordingly when times are tough and times were awful for us going from an owner with an open cheque book to having to count the pennies.

As far as budgets go, we are supposedly in the top half of wage budgets and was increased by 500k this summer (Power's words, take from that what you will), you can say what we have on display is poor but it's always going to be against what we had. He could have easily increased prices of tickets as soon as we got to Wembley! Did he? No, he kept prices the same, would you want to pay MORE to keep the old bunch? If we have 6k a gate, 23 home games a season and 4m overspend, it works out at an extra £290 per person to make up that £4m, you up for that?

We are a L1 team of an average 6k gate in a stadium we rent at high cost, stuck in a large £1m a year catering deal (thanks Jed) so increasing revenue isn't easy, I would say we make as much as we can from the resources we have without increasing capacity or selling the ground name (the Power stadium anyone?) (joke at Oxford).

If someone can save a business from going bust and being profitable then damn right they should be paid for it, they keep lets take a rough guess at 60 people employed, lets say 35 non players? (i am taking a guess here, no idea on numbers). The owner could easily shut the business down because revenue is poor compared to outgoings, or you cut the costs and save the business and then make money for that business. If the club is making a profit, then it has more funds to invest in assets / marketing and to pay wages.

The entertainment on the field HAS to improve or we will continue losing fans old and new BUT it has to be done sustainable so that the club is able to be here for the next 100 years.

The recruitment in the summer was poor and the "experienced" players haven't performed...... it was a really poor summer and hopefully the deadwood are moved on quickly and can try and rebuild, we can't get it right everytime.

I understand the budget had to be cut, we were clearly spending too much under Di Canio....but you honestly think that £4.5m down to £500,000 adds up!? (ref http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/22454081) We might have been spending too much before, but we were really spending nine times as much!? Especially when we have received more in transfer fees under him than we have spent.

I know attendances are down from then, but not that drastically and ticket priced remain the same. You can defend Power until you're blue in the face, but you can't tell me that looks all above board because it clearly doesn't and you don't need the accounts to be audited to call bullshit on it.

I feel a lot of people are just unwilling to face up what they're seeing because it would be an uncomfortable truth, far easier to just burry your head in the sand and pretend it isn't happening instead.

Our budget isn't 500k a year, that's damn right stupid if it was true, 500k / 30 players / 52 = £320 a week per player.

Our budget is a lot higher, i may have misinterpreted it but the budget went UP by 500k in the summer. If I had to guess we are probably in the 2.5m-3m a year range. £3m a year wage gives us £2k a week for 30 players, the scholars and "kids" will be on less.

Ajose, williams and Fodders were supposedly on upto 7k a week here, which is £365k a year

Gates are down, that's easy to see but we reaslistically couldn't survive on £4.5m a year wage budget in L1, that doesn't include non-playing staff either. I may be in the minority but I can see the numbers didn't make sense and so did Power, either prices had to rise or costs had to be cut.......

Sorry I missread what you wrote as our budget being half a million a year. Does anyone know what it is currently? I definitely remember them saying it was reduced to £2m and then another report a year later that the budget would again be more than halved. So it must have been £1m a year or less at some point, although it may have risen since then.

£1m a year is £700 a week, no chance in hell in league 1...... £2m would be the least he could get away with to be fair

What's your source on that? Did Power say it on the radio? The reason I ask is the only reference on relative budgets I can recall is that Terry Cooper (Mark's dad) mentioned that we'd have one of the smallest budgets in the league the year after the playofss - wait that was last season wasn't it?

Buggered if I can find that quote now mind. But this is from just after the PO final flop (1.5M):
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-3098095/Swindon-manager-Mark-Cooper-having-sleepless-nights-League-One-play-defeat-expects-club-learn-lesson.html

I'd be amazed if last season was higher than that...

I'm with you in that costs had to be slashed to survive.

Yep, start of season at one of the games

The main problem is that we don't even know. There is no transparency there and it leads to even less trust and more questioning. A quick google search told me what it was under Di Canio as bad as that was.

We do have very little in the way of actual seasoned pros and thats the only way its possible to pay low wages.

People only question as they don't think before they spout rubbish and it then gets around, very few clubs will tell fans what their budgets are, most businesses won't say anything either..... I agree we need transparency but there is a limit of what can be said.


Delfo, Norris, Murray, Thomas, Thompson, Branco, Kasim, Obika........ all experienced pro's not on £700 p/w

Unless I am missing your version of what experienced means

Thanks Batch. So at £1.5m we're looking at three times less than the Di Canio days based on that. Still doesn't add up to me. I can find quotes from Fitton when he took over saying we could have a sustainable wage budget of £2.5m on 7,000 gates. Our average was 7,409 last season and you'd base a budget off that. So why a budget of £1.5 or even £2m?

Can also find another article here stating one of the lowest in the division although doesn't state a figure....

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-3923860/Tim-Sherwood-unveiled-Swindon-Town-director-football.html

I personally would not be happy at Power making 300k a year (random number given I know) for the rapid demise in our squad and performances in the last 2 seasons, whether the club is sustainable/making profit or not.

There would have to be a lot of profit to do that so unlikely........ and if we get to that stage the team would hopefully be performing better than it is currently.

As a business owner though, he is in his right to pay himself what he wants as long as the business can afford it, 300k a year is about the same as a high earner player so isn't that much.

Football is not a business..

If it were the 80's I'd agree with you, but that boat sailed a long time ago.

http://www.swindonadvertiser.co.uk/news/14345620.display/

This was two years ago essentially, before he'd sold players and recouped money (which is what he has referred to when people speak of taking money back out).  By no means will he have got the full lot back yet.  He also then stated he increased the budget for Ajose last year and then again in pre-season this year.  The account sort of back up his statements given the reduction in Operating losses and previously published total wage bills (around the £5m mark a few years ago).  There is a fair chance that we'll have two years of small profits while sustaining around a £2m total player wage bill.

Anyway that's all irrelevant - people are asking that we spend more - the money has to come from somebody because we have no banking lines of credit available since the previous administrations.  Power clearly doesn't have that kind of money or desire to provide it without a way of getting it back.

To change that, somebody else needs to run the club and chuck money at it.  That seems unlikely - I don't that somebody would step forward, but they won't be able to achieve the cash without risking the club.  We need some assets, something that entices investors, we don't have it.

I think everyone connected with the club is in a collective "depression". Nobody really wants to get out of bed but know they have to try - that's management, players and fans. So you get up and go through the motions whilst not enjoying it. As a player, do you make that gut busting run forward, do you make that last ditch tackle or is it just too much effort. As a fan, do you make that trip to Fleetwood or is it just too much effort.
It kind of creeps up on you and you don't know about it until you're in the full grip of it. You have very little energy or buzz.

Pretty much sums me up. I could quite easily do midweek home and away. I have the time and money, but i know i'm highly unlikely to get any enjoyment once there, so I don't. I wont stamp my feet and shout about it, as It is quite refreshing to only have the piss taken because we are useless, not useless, skint, and in the courts again. It will come back, it always does, but by then I might be eating daisies, as it's looking at the moment.

I agree with the last two post totally.

Its good that we aren't constantly on the verge of going bust, going into receivership every 5 minutes or being under a transfer embargo but there seems to be no fun, just going through the motions at the moment.

It won't take much to ignite the flame in most Town fans and get the good feeling back again but it may not happen this season IMO.

Also the more I think about Sherwood though the more I agree with some that he may have been an exercise in smoke and mirrors to appease the fans, which is very very sad. If indeed he isn't then where the hell is he? come out in the press and say whats happening and what your exact role is.....oh wait a minute Swindon no longer operate that way with open regular communication with the fans (unless its Williams on matchdays and that alwats seems under duress) so its as you were.

As I said earlier, for me the proof will be at the end of this window. Disregard their football ability, but if  we are left with Gladwin and the three Chelsea lads then his appointment will have been totally pointless. In short - we'd have got them anyway - so what does he do?


Presumably that's contractual (having to give the interview)

in what planet is a football club not a business? just because you "support" that business doesn't mean it's not a business.....

You pay that "business" for a service, they record their income and they pay taxes on that income, they have staff and they are a registered as a business (limited company legally ....

Just because some owners decide to let their "business" run up millions of losses as they run them as hobbies doesn't mean they aren't a business.

How do you figure?

Maybe I'm wrong, maybe it is a business. Just feel like the more it's treated like a business for running profit, the less engaged the fans feel and therefore increases their apathy. This is the most disillusioned I've seen town fans.

One of the biggest mistakes Power has made was to treat the fans like customers and charge full whack for tickets in the rearranged Rovers game, that 'business decision' has definitely lost money in the long run.

Oh I agree with the sentiment. I've never felt so disconnected, but hey.. it's life I guess.

I wonder how I'd feel if I lived in the town. Other than the frustration of Swindon being currently rubbish on the pitch, my level of support is no different.

I don't give fuck how much Power takes out of the club as long as he produces a competitive team on the pitch - that's his job.

My job is supporting said team - although I'm thinking of resigning!

Ditto, frustrated with the current position but seen it too many times so doesn't bother me as much as it bothers others.

Power was always going to be OK as long as results were steady, but now they're not.  The fuck up has plainly been up front. Whereby we're on the cards for the lowest ever individual goal scoring total of all time as well as, a season where no player has notched a brace or hat-trick or better.