Let's Get Political!

[Reg Smeeton]

Has she, you struggle to find a majority in parliament or the country as a whole who think her deal would be good for the UK?

Only because of cake and eat it syndrome... Brexiteers assume the EU will do as it's told, in the same way they assume, Johnny Foreigner will do as he's told when it comes to replacing the trade deals lost by leaving the EU.

[pauld]

Perhaps "good for the UK and EU" might be overegging it - "as best as you can expect given the circumstances for the UK and EU" might put it better?

[jayohaitchenn]

I see our very own Robert Buckland decided to vote against all of the amendments last night. Presumably he is still backing Theresa's deal.

Tomlinson voted for no deal and the 2 year extension, so basically "do nothing."

Pair of shyters.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-47726787

[Reg Smeeton]

I see our very own Robert Buckland decided to vote against all of the amendments last night. Presumably he is still backing Theresa's deal.

Tomlinson voted for no deal and the 2 year extension, so basically "do nothing."

Pair of shyters.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-47726787

Re Buckland that's the assimption... you can't vote for options when May's deal is still theoretically on the table.  Tomlinson, probably hopes that voting for no deal, will find favour with a new Brexit leader, and assume that his constituents won't notice or care, given the perilous situation around the automotive industry likely to happen with no deal.

[pauld]

Tomlinson voted for no deal and the 2 year extension, so basically "do nothing."

Aren't they mutually contradictory?

[RobertT]

The holw point of this was to return control to the UK Parliament, not to make it somehow a bastion of democracies worldwide.  You get what you vote for - we voted to tell them to leave, we voted for our MP''s to represent us.  If they can't decide what to vote FOR then the default is a hard Brexit, just let it happen.  They can then get on with making new laws as they see fit and the electorate can vote for replacements at the next GE if they think they've made a mess of it.

[pauld]

The holw point of this was to return control to the UK Parliament, not to make it somehow a bastion of democracies worldwide.  You get what you vote for - we voted to tell them to leave, we voted for our MP''s to represent us.  If they can't decide what to vote FOR then the default is a hard Brexit, just let it happen.  They can then get on with making new laws as they see fit and the electorate can vote for replacements at the next GE if they think they've made a mess of it.

Yup.

[Batch]

Nope.

[pauld]

It's what we as a nation voted for, even if it is a fucking mess created by liars and self-regarding cretins, it's what we voted for. Caveat emptor.

[pauld]

How the fuck is Chris Grayling still in a job? Not just a cabinet job, but any kind of job. You wouldn't trust him as a junior intern, he'd be the one who accidentally stapled his cock to the desk while doing some filing

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-47728948

[Ardiles]

The holw point of this was to return control to the UK Parliament, not to make it somehow a bastion of democracies worldwide.  You get what you vote for - we voted to tell them to leave, we voted for our MP''s to represent us.  If they can't decide what to vote FOR then the default is a hard Brexit, just let it happen.  They can then get on with making new laws as they see fit and the electorate can vote for replacements at the next GE if they think they've made a mess of it.

It may be heretical to suggest this, but if the result of our democracy is an extended period during which our elected representatives focus on little else other than how best to make ourselves poorer and to weaken our partnerships - then maybe our democracy isn't as great as we thought it was.  I'm not saying do away with it all together - but radical reform is a must.  The 'unwritten constitution' bollocks has to go, for a start.  Our friends over the water have their heads in their hands at the moment, not quite able to understand how we got ourselves in to this mess.  Because in their countries, they have properly written constitutions that set out how these things work - and, as a result, would never have found themselves in this position.  We need to learn from this, and them.

[Ardiles]

...and (returning to an old chestnut, sorry), FPTP has to go as well.  It's precisely because of this archaic and deeply unfair voting system that we end up with an adversarial parliament with no experience or incentive to find consensus.  In countries that use PR or a variant of it (which is, more or less, every other country) May would not have drawn her ridiculous red lines in 2016/17 and would not have had to pander to the absurd and frankly delusional leanings of the hard right ERG faction in her party.  She would have started to seek consensus across parliament nearly 3 years ago.  UK democracy is a miserable shadow of what it could & should be.  We only have ourselves to blame as a country for this mess when we persist with an outdated voting system that just about every other modern democracy has rejected.

[jayohaitchenn]

Aren't they mutually contradictory?

I never said it made sense!

[pauld]

Our friends over the water have their heads in their hands at the moment, not quite able to understand how we got ourselves in to this mess. 

I share an office with a French guy in a workplace that is roughly 50-50 Brits and Europeans (it's an international science centre, funded by 30+ European govts but outside the EU, before any of the knuckledraggers kick in about "taking our jobs"). Every morning I get in and just say to him "No, don't ask me, I have no idea what they're doing either". He, and the other Europeans on site, look at us with a mixture of horror, bemusement and pity. We are an international laughing stock. #takingbackcontrol

[swindonmaniac]

The holw point of this was to return control to the UK Parliament, not to make it somehow a bastion of democracies worldwide.  You get what you vote for - we voted to tell them to leave, we voted for our MP''s to represent us.  If they can't decide what to vote FOR then the default is a hard Brexit, just let it happen.  They can then get on with making new laws as they see fit and the electorate can vote for replacements at the next GE if they think they've made a mess of it.

Exactly,  100% correct.  This whole affair is fucking doing my head in.  
Fuck the million+ people that have signed a petition to stop Brexit.   17.4 MILLION people voted to get out, don't they have any rights ?.
How many people vote for a certain government in the general elections,  then find they are not the party they thought they were. Don't ever recall such backlash when the voters decide they didn't know what they were voting for.
I voted to get out,   I don't give a fuck how we get out,  let's just do it.    And before anyone starts on about the economics,  how much money has been wasted in the last three years ?.   Ok, so life maybe harder initially,  and it may take a few years but I'm sure as a country we would bounce back.   In the meantime we would be able to make our own laws and fuck of all non-british murderers/rapists/ muggers/multi offenders who shelter under the big soft Britain umbrella.  Sorry, but IMO the time has come to do what the majority voted for,  stop bowing down to Brussels, Bercow and the rest of the whinging remainers.