Thetownend.com

I have been going for 30 years, was once rather stupidly made supporter of the year and was on the trust board.

 Im fed up with swindon town and have lost all enthuisasm for it. Havent been for ages not going next week - I have a season ticket- my dads going in my place, 

This isnt my usual mid term blues, really cant be arsed, im not going to renew my season ticket next year. Im going VIP v southend then that will be it for a while.

All Im saying is Mr. Fitton if this is how I feel, then Im sure im not alone and Im afraid to say I think unless you get things sorted on the pitch you are going to have serious problems.

sorry fella.

your not alone mex. I have realy cut down on how much i have been to see town, im just losing the love for it

Its a letter most of us could write Red...it seems worse than ever,problem is most of us set our sights alot higher this year...mistake.

Count me in. Another two season tickets not being renewed, and indeed will probably give it a miss completely.
We watched a game on a local park last Saturday and it was so refreshing to see a proper game of football.
The standard was not great but the effort & commitment was spot on.
How many times have you seen that at the CG this season?

You lot are lightweight pussies. I'm loving it so much i'm considering going to the reserve match tonight which is free for season ticket holders by the way.

If you want to support a succesful team, Liverpool are doing quite well at the moment. x x x

You must really be a sad git if you enjoy watching the tripe being dished up this season.
My expectations are set higher.

I have 2 small children, a house that needs a number of DIY jobs carrying out and a garden that requires attention.As a result I don't really have the time or finances to get to many games this year. I think it's great that we're shite because I don't feel like I'm missing much. If Mr Fitton could keep it so we're shit for another couple of years that'd be great.

I think Si Pie summed it up in another thread

Seen us alot worse than this year so I will keep going, things can only get better.

Once you've stopped for a while, it's much harder to get that urge and desire to go back again.

i'm sure the bandwagon will be up and rolling again once we win a few games

[/ tounge in cheek]

I know where you are coming from Mex, but it's not like we haven't put up with shit like this in the past.  The difference being that we are putting up with shit like this whilst having a financially stable club.

Maybe as fans we have taken our eyes off the ball in recent years and put up with shit because of the financial situation we were in.  Now that we are out of that shit our focus has shifted and there in not that excuse anymore so it seems even more so now that we aren't getting what we expect.

I am happy to write off this season, mainly down to the mistake that AF made of employing Malpas, but will probably look at it more critically next year if things don't improve.  New manager, some fresh new players and a full pre season under everyones belts will mean even less excuses to start moving in the right direction.

I still think we will pull away from the relegation zone this season and finish just short of midtable, maybe i'm dilusional in thinking that, but at this moment in time I really do.  I still think it too early to expect miracles bearing in mind the mistakes that have been made over the last 12 months.

Get a grip people. Sounds a bit feminine in here.

I'm actually enjoying this year, not the football being offered, just a slightly less engaged approach to watching the team (which comes from having no expectation) plus knowing it was cheap as chips allowing me to have a few drinks before a game without worrying about the bank balance all the time.

I believe I am odd

Each to their own, but no football? Fuck that.

Maybe if I lived in Brighton and had to travel I'd feel different. Don't think so though.

I'm debating renewing, in fact if I don't see more ambition in signing some decent players rather than non league cast off shit then I won't bother.  I might not be as super a fan as some people but Im fed up of "our target is reaching the Championship in 3 years" when we dont seem to be moving forward at all on the pitch - in fact getting worse.

I'll be re-newing. Like someone already said, it can only get better. Onwards and upwards!!!!!  :beers:

Each to their own.

The football's not been the best, but the crack's still there! I would miss it if I didn't go.

Last Saturday's a good example. Did we play shit? Yes. Was I pissed off about the result? Yes.

Did I enjoy the day? Fuck yeah!

Don't get me wrong, I don't consider myself a 'super fan', I missed a large chunk of the nineties (Due in part to distance, divorce and skintness) and the longer I didn't go the easier it got.

But I would rather go to watch Swindon on a cold, wet Saturday than anything I could do.

And there's also the belief that the next time will be the game we turn it on. (Deluded I know!)

i've lost all interest in going to games as the atmosphere around the ground - or lack thereof - irritate me. it sounds petty but i got sick and tried of hearing the same moaners every week regardless of where i sat.

the performances worsened and my interest waned further. i still follow what's happening and listen intently on the radio but given current circumstances, i can't really be bothered squandering £20 on something which will just make me angry, frustrated and disappointed.

i'm going to the walsall game as someone else is insistent on going but i sincerely doubt i'll go to any other games this season. hopefully a positive pre-season will re-ignite the interest i once had...

i can't really put my finger on it but as ben says, once you get out of the habit of going it's difficult to motivate yourself to go again.

I am renewing my season ticket. Ups and downs are part of football. Yes we are rubbish now... Our day will come :)

Dear Mr. Fitton,

  I would also like to throw my toys out of the pram.

Im with Mex - I just find it soooooooo BOOORRRING!

I found myself getting annoyed that the Stockport match got re-arranged from the Sat to the Tuesday as it meant I had to go (I was busy on the Sat!)

Having to buy magazines to read during the match is adding extra costs

For what its worth I will be renewing my season ticket next year.

nah - I'll keep going that's what it's all about and I've never seen anything other than poo - I think you were lucky that you saw premiership matches at he County Ground.

I'd like a player who everyone presumed was shit to come in and be decent. Everyone got carried away with the Marshall signing as he hasn't worked his way anywhere near to the first team.

I also remember quite a few getting excited by Casal, based on highlights of one match on youtube. He's been nothing but rubbish for us.

Marshall won us the game at Franchise.

I said before the season started he'd be the token non league player we sign who stays a season (if that) and ends up back in non league because we seem to have one of those every season

but he did play well when he came on against Franchise and really hasnt featured since.

Not that I'd jump for joy or anything if he did play, I'd rather we gave Macklin a run out

I have 2 small children, a house that needs a number of DIY jobs carrying out, a garden that requires attention and a missus who seemingly never tires of reminding me of the above. As a result anything that gets me out of the house and away from all this shit is fine by me. Decent football would be a bonus but as long as the CG provides me some sanctuary from all this shit, I'm happy.

Swindon til I die I'm afraid-nothing I can do about it.Intend to go to 7 more away games this season

I'll probablly renew.  I'm a bit thick like that

I probably wont renew because i don't even know where i'll be living next year, not for football matters though

Jesus H fucking Christ this place gets more and more like this is every day.

Fuck off back to L&P or wherever else you post then!

Nah.

Ive said this before, until they get strippers in the winners before games (not Iris) they can fuck right off if theyre having anymore of my money :)

Seriously though, i shall keep going as often as i can. 3 more games this season then!

I wont be renewing primarily because I dont think they will be the same price next season as they were this year, at least I can then pick and choose my games. The kids are completely bored of it and have not used there ST for a couple of months and I work away so all these midweek re-arranged games are being missed, I reckon if we get a couple more postponed then I would of been better paying on the day instead of the family ST. I get more enjoyment out of watching my sons U8 games on a sunday morning and I am finding the whole Saturday matchday completely un-enjoyable with no atmosphere and surrounded by moaning old bastards.

I've contemplated not renewing but I anticipate I'll go to most, if not all home games anyway. Given that, a renewal is probably still a good option for me.

Plus I'd like to stay in the same place in the town end.

Do you sit in DRS stand?

No Arkells about halfway between Town end and half way line. Looks like the moaning old bastards are all over, I even had two 60 plus guys going to have a fight one week over booing Phil Smith

Awaits the launching of the www.thedonrogersstand.com - I fear a case of history repeating.

Has a ring to it.

I just don't understand the huge amount of negativity that seems to have all come from one game when we were shit. We've been shit all season!! We're still not even in the relegation zone! If we go down and have endure another season in League Two then yeah I'd understand but we've got plenty of games left. I don't see why this topic is addressed to Fitton, I think people are becoming a bit short minded after the debacle that was the last regime. Things haven't gone right on the pitch but it's only been a year! Malpas was a huge mistake and he admitted that, Wilson is an experienced manager and I think he'll steady the ship.

People are entitled to opinions of course and I always value Mex's opinions but it seems ridiculously early to throw in the towell.

Sounds rough! Have you considered alcoholism? Going to see Swindon play to get out of the house is a bit like stabbing yourself in the leg to take away the pain of toothache.

i agree with mex 100% it's not a post i would have expected him to write, but it sums up my feelings too.i haven't been to the last 3 home games and i aint missing it.i cannot remember the last time prior to now that i've missed more than one home game on the trot, as it's been years.
we have a shambolic team(the goals conceeded on saturday are truly awful for a catalogue of reasons) and a being a financiall ystable club on the brink of relegation isn't anything like i imagined it would be this season.gates will be dismal along with season ticket renews next season unless fitton does something drastic to win fans back

Why was there not this reaction in the 05/06 season?

I wouldn't know what to do on a Sat afternoon if I couldn't have my football fix, yes the football may not be good at the mo, but blimey how many seasons has this happened that we have been crap, and what was things like under the old board ?

I'm sure given time DW will turn things around.

I guess because being shit when you're struggling to just keep the club afloat is one thing, whereas being shit and looking a bit lacking in ambition when you've a couple of board members in the top 30 richest men in football is a bit of a pisser.

I think that's the case too. The unfortunate thing is, I think if our players were playing to anything near their capabilities we'd have greater form this season than we did in that.

It's going to take both greater effort from the players and the fans (which I think we did have in 05/06) to get us out of trouble. I don't think the players can wait for the fans to start getting behind them and I don't think the fans can wait for something to happen on the pitch.

As a club we've forgotten how to play and as a set of fans we've forgotten how to support. Something has to give.

But what can he do?? At the end of the day whilst it his job to appoint the managers etc it's not him that puts out the team, chooses tactics etc. We are a small club and sometimes I wish more of our fans realised that, we can't afford to keep getting big names in as we've done in the past because it almost fucked us over completely. You could say it's lacking in ambition, or maybe it's sensible for a board who have spent shitloads just getting us out of debt and investing in two decent players (McNamee and Cox). If this is how our fans support our club then honestly we don't deserve any success.

A good performance and a win next week and everyone's all smiles again.

Each to their own and all that. It's peoples money and they can do what they want.

However, if the opinions of Mex are voice of the majority - then we're in long term trouble.

People stuck with Swindon through the worst kind of football regimes, it's sad that when stability arrives we ditch the club because there hasn't been instant progress.

At this point in time we've certainly taken a step backwards on the pitch - if we go down history will see it as a disaster for the club (and rightly so), if we survive it's a lesson learned - a lesson we can work on, I hope.

This isn't happy clapping or blind optimism - we're in trouble. However I've never bought into 3/5/10 year plans in football, I always expected turning our fortunes around to be a long drawn affair.

he and his fellow board members could spend some more of their vast fortunes on stfc.
i dont expect that,but i'd like it and money works.

i think like alot of fans i see that stfc could have potential.i've seen the good days,and endured the last few years of shit.fitton coming in raised all our hopes,but it's not really going how i thought it would.i have dreams of us doing a reading,wigan,hull,fulham etc.we could be a side like that if things were done similarly.i think others see us that way too tails.i wont turn my back on stfc,and it will always be my club.but at the moment i am not motivated enough to go and sit through the shite that it has been this season, when i can do other things that are more enjoyable.

It's quite sad reading some of the posts on here. Like RP says, each to their own, and I can understand that money and family can prevent you from going to games, but for those who simply can't be arsed, you have to take the rough with the smooth.

Yes we're shit now, but we won't be shit forever and when we have a successful season again, I'll appreciate it because I will recall how shite I feel now.

But you can't turn your back on it, can you? Really? Saturdays aren't the same without football, and until I have a son old enough to play and watch instead, I'll still go.

And all those asking Fitton to throw money at the club, surely you must realise that it's counter-productive, that it's actions like that that has put  us in this shitter of a situation in the first place? We've been chasing our tail since 1992.

We'd all love to spend millions but we haven't got it. And why would they throw their own personal money at us, given that they're successful businessman?

Danny Wilson will improve us, but it won't happen overnight.

When he does, I'll be there.

Juddie your post sums up my own sentiments exactly.

This.

I naively had high hopes for this year, based on some encouraging performances towards the end of last season, but it hasn't worked out. I'm disappointed about it, but there you go. From the amount of effort that was put into saving the club last season, I thought it meant more to people.

I'm not saying Fitton and co are beyond criticism because we're now financially stable. Far from it. Malpas was an awful decision and our signings have been bad, but I'd like to give fitton the chance to make up for it and let wilson do what he does best. Like DW has stated, we're not at the top of the food chain when it comes to signings, that's the nature of where we are. We're a shit league one club, so any clubs we're dealing with are going to want to see what they can do in the transfer market first before releasing players.

We are going to have to be patient when it comes to new signings.

I'm sure our transfer policy goes beyond giving two supposed clowns a trial, but if one of them turns out to be half decent, and cheap, then why not take a punt?

Fitton and co have invested their time and money in this club and while they haven't got it all right yet, I'm prepared to reserve judgement, hoping we stay up this year and improve when wilson builds his own side in the summer.

so life's on pause for a year, could be worse...

I think we've all seen a lot, lot worse than this.

The Chairman made a terrible decision with the Malpas appointment, but I think I'm going to give him a little longer than 12 months to sort things out.

Likewise, I think I'll give the manager a little longer than 1 month to sort things out on the pitch.

I think Juddie echoed my opinions.

However, Swindon Town is part of an entertainment industry where crowd size plays a massive part in future progress and at the moment the people are not entertained so why should they go?

We cannot afford to lose more fans so the board need to think short term aswell as long term at the moment.

your spot on rich! its just not entertaining and at the moment it becomes harder and harder to drag myself to games! im litterally going because i always have not really because i want to!

I have cut back on away games this season due to our performances but will never miss a home game. This forum has made me realise how much I love this club really. Things have been piss poor so far but atleast we have a club and if we had the same board we did last season we wouldn’t have a club now, we would be AFC Swindon or something else. We have no divine right at success. Yes AF and crew should throw some money at it to stay up and then push on next season but I don;’t see it happening. We don’t want to pay agents fees so players will likely go somewhere else, Our time will come, Probably not for another 2 or 3 years admittedly but if we are in L2 next season and it goes as well as it did last time we will all be happy again so…

 I think in 2005/06 we were more tolerant because we knew we were rubbish but the players worked their asses off and did try to their credit, where as the team this season arguably is a lot better talent wise but they are not playing to their strengths and half the time don’t look bothered.  The team that got relegated before were proud to wear the shirt (except Cureton) whilst almost everyone in this team looks as if they would rather be somewhere else.

I have no real big points to make, but i feel like i'm falling out of love with football right now. I don't enjoy watching the Town (especially at home) and i don't really enjoy watching it on TV/reading about it. I can't put my finger on it.

I must be quite sadistic in that I enjoy going to football, even with the crap performances we've had lately. I'm certainly under-enthused with the football on the pitch (having 4 or 5 pints before the game certainly helps), but I'm not yet at the stage where I can say I don't want to go to games anymore or won't be getting a season ticket next term.

People have their own prerogative for not attending games whilst we're not playing so well, be it travelling distance, financial reasons, family commitments etc. which I don't have a problem with, but for me the whole being a fan thing means you stick with your team through thick or thin and don't give it up at the drop of a hat.

DW needs time to make his influence on the team. So far he's only had 3 league games in which he's had to use players a previous manager has brought in. I really believe that if DW is allowed to bring in his own players that we will turn things around on the pitch and will see an improvement in both results and league position.

One thing that does intrigue me is why Mex's post is aimed at Fitton? Apart from transfers, what else can he be expected to do to influence our performances and results.

With regards to transfers and without knowing the transfer goings on at the club i.e. who we're targeting, how much we're paying, why they rejected us etc. it's really hard for me to judge Fitton and criticise him for seemingly sitting on his hands and not getting everything done yesterday. It is frustrating that we haven't got anyone in yet and that players are rejecting us in favour of other club's who will pay more money and/or deal with agents, but I accept that's the way Fitton wants the club ran.

We've still got 21 league fixtures before I make my decision about next season, although I'll probably buy another season ticket regardless because like others have said - I just can't imagine Saturday's without football.

If you have read the Lou Macari autobiography you would understand why some of us older folk are dissolusioned with the present day team.
Even though most of his players lacked talent they all made up for it by working and training hard. In a word passion.
There is none of that to be found in this team.

I hear you Lucien. Especially working in football, I find myself becoming increasingly disllusioned with it all. I think it's money, well for me it is anyway. I often feel disillusioned with the amount of money football costs, how much players earn, how much money is need to earn success these days... it's so far removed from reality it's a joke. Eveything's commercial; read an interview and it's because a player has been launching a boot or something. That, and so many players just seem like dreadful, hateful people. Jermain Defoe, Craig Bellamy, John Terry, the list is endless... arrogant, spineless cnuts with no loyalty and little semblance of intelligence.

At least with Swindon, even if we are cack at the moment, we're living to our means and keeping it slightly real. If only the lads would put in the effort we did every weekend, we'd be alright! But I don't think it's cos they don't to, I just think it's years of playing for an average team, often with off-field drama, the pressures of making a living at the lower end - knowing it could end any day - and the constant change we've had at the club.

I bitch and moan but I'll go most home games and some aways because it's what me and my dad have always done. We don't know any different. We could be in the conference like Oxford and I'd hate it, but probably still go. The day you don't travel to a game wondering 'what if, this could be the day we play really well and win 3-0' is the day I'll knock it on the head.

"If you have read the Lou Macari autobiography you would understand why some of us older folk are dissolusioned with the present day team.
Even though most of his players lacked talent they all made up for it by working and training hard. In a word passion.
There is none of that to be found in this team."

That's still not enough reason to not go. I started watching town in the late 80s so I had it pretty good for a few years, but we won't be this shit forever. You have to endure the bad to appreciate the good. If you go away and come back when it's good then that makes us as plastic as Reading and everyone else we slag off on here.

I get all that... i still go, and will go next year, i just don't like it feeling like a chore. I think that's why i enjoy the away days still, as it's largely a great way to spend the day/weekend, with usually just a 90 minute poor spell somewhere in the middle.

Maybe we wont come back at all

People who have enough interest to go on Swindon Town related internet forums will go back.

My old man still makes a couple of games a season (if Chippenham aren't playing), he stopped like many others during the Rikki Hunt era.

Until we are a in the Championship or even until we are a Wigan or a Reading, we'll always have people having an excuse to not go. Success = Higher gates.

Juddie,

I don't think anyone is asking the board to go out and spend masses of money,but to take the club
forward,we need some sustained investment into the squad.

Samdy in a post yesterday, said that the board won't spend except on "exceptional players" a la Coxy,
but we'll be relying on loans and freebies.We don't even offer competitive wages to attract players.
Anyone decent who's available on a free, will have other clubs interested.I don't want the club paying
silly wages,but i do expect them to be competitive,when trying to sign anyone decent.The board
can't have it both ways - not paying fees or decent wages to attract any quality players.How is
DW supposed to attract players,now or in the summer?

Last summer, the board to their credit were willing to pay 150K for Mulgrew.When he didn't sign,MM was
left with looking at a guy from Belgium and John Hills.We were so desperate for a left back we ended
up with Yinka! We were also crying out for a right winger.Surely the board could have loosened the purse
strings a bit?

I know quite a few people within the game and have asked on numerous occasions what their perception
of STFC is.Some are unaware of our new owners,whilst others who are more aware of the lower leagues,
say that we come accross as a club which isn't ambitious or progressive in any way, shape or form.

The board have worked very hard off the pitch, to make us a much more professional and well run club,
but you have to be 2 steps ahead of the game.I hope that they've learnt a lot over the last the 12 months.
The last few years have really worn us down.We as fans need a sense of optimism about STFC,but we
aren't getting that both on or off the pitch.Nick Watkins at the Trust AGM, said that they wouldn't allow us
to go down.I hope that he and Fitton are true to his word and that they give DW every help this month
and in the summer.

Come on you Reds!

One of the best aspects of watching lower league football, even down to the occasional non league
games,is the honest endeavour.It's something that we as fans can appreciate.

I'll be getting a season ticket...subject to still having a job !!!

I can certainly feel for Mex and co. and in some respects I feel slightly similar. The adrenalin fix of getting the old board out has gone, and bar the on field performances, everything is running smoothly off the field. Anyway, I'd rather be having a go at the ref at the CG, then watching plastic football on the tele.

One thing I look forward to every home game now, the football special at the Frying Fish...top value !!!

I agree with you AM, all I'm saying is that we might have to wait until the end of jan before we sign players, for the simple reason that clubs are unwilling to release players until they've sorted themselves out. As a league one club we have to wait until bigger clubs make their moves, that's just the way it works.

Everyone wants new players now, but they might have to wait a week or 10 days.

And while we do want to become a better prospect, teh facts are we're at the wrong end of league one. If it's a choice between us and someone in mid-table, then who do you think a player will join?

Ive lost interest,I now consider my self a casual fan that goes when he can be arsed.Once you get over the guilt of missing a home match for no real reason it then turns to two and before you know it you've not been for a few months.Its really quite liberating.

Incidently ive only scanned this thread,has anyone said "we must get behind the lads" ?

I appreciate that most of the deals are done in the last week of the january window.However,
i do feel that it's the "perception" of the club that needs to be addressed.To attract players
Fitton and Danny Wilson need to sell the club to players and yes agents,that we're a go ahead
and progressive club and wanting to improve.

we must get behind the lads

I miss the odd home match, it's nothing to feel guilty about, but I do then find myself looking forward to the next one because I haven't been "for ages".

Reading some of the posts here you'd think Swindon had never had a shit team before.

I've been not going for ages. Fucking bandwagon jumpers.

The problem with the "Saturday isn't the same without football" thing, is that actually it can be better. I like the afternoon out, meeting people in the pub. But you can do that and not go to the game, have your cake and eat it too.

Yeovil yesterday you wanted to become a Citeh fan!  :soapy tit wank:

Actually, i also heard 606 on sunday and the plans that City have for a new hotel complex and
factory for manufacturing merchandise.They've offered 400 million for Eastlands and the area to
Manchester council.

Did you also hear on 606,Steve from Swindon who's a Palace fan? Swindon accent yet he supports
Palarse? What the feck is that about? At least he isn't a Premiershit fan.

Just the same as Wiltshire folk support all the other clubs other than Swindon. It's because they don't want to.

It's amazing that Teams who are really shit have any supporters.

It could be worse, you could have been a Rochdale fan for the last twenty years.

I like doing that other stuff, too, every now and again. I don't go to every town game so it's nice when I do. I was talking more to those who were saying they wouldn't come back at all.

As for DW and Fitton trying to sell the club... how do they go about doing that? You can't polish a turd; we've been shit for ages and financially unstable for ages, just because they say it's better might not be enough for some people - I'm sure that's what previous boards and managers have said! It's how it must have felt trying to get Kaka, or Kar-kar s some now call him, to go to City!

One thing I'm confident of, Wilson will be more of a draw than Malpas.

To all those people who dont go now because the "football is shit" or "they're not being entertained" tell me how to obtain that mindset,'cause I 've never supported Town for the great scintillating football or to enjoy myself and if I did,I could save myself a shit-load of money?

Quite, but it's what they'll hide behind isn't it.

I'm like you in that respect adje. Sometimes you go knowing it'll be shit, but not being able to stop yourself.

I think it's a mental illness.

Steve the Palace fan with the Swindon accent,gave an embarassed laugh when he said he was
from Swindon, yet supports Palace.He also winged about spending 60 quid on travel and ticket
to go to Selhurst Park.

I'll renew with my daughter. I'm not enjoying my football any more but if its a choice between getting away from the Mrs for a coupel of hours or having her nag me for a couple of hours then its a non brainer.
A divorce is more expensive than a season ticket so financially it makes sense.

Obsessive Compulsive Disorder in my case !

"It doesn't happen overnight. Confidence that has been eroded in 18 months can't be repaired in a week or two. We have got to slowly work at it and try to get a few results."

That's Nigel Clough talking about Derby, but it's true of our team and Danny Wilson as well. And if you look at the club as a whole, you could argue that confidence that has been eroded in 13 years can't be repaired in 12 months either.

I certainly hope so and believe that he will be,but the Anyinsah bid was worrying.Here was a player
Wilson knew as a youngster at Bristol City,has family in Bristol, but still we couldn't get.It was probably wages and i know he was on loan at Carlisle last season,so he knew the club.It's really
a vision of the club that they need to sell,but i suppose it'll be wages at the end of the day at
this level  ::)

Let's hope for a big clearout in the summer,a new start and that we're still in League 1.

the key is staying in league one, then we can consign this season to the history books. It's been one to forget so far, shame as I'd bought my first season ticket in ages, and judging by comments on here, many won't be renewing like me?!

Most posters on this thread have tried to be constructive and have shown how football still matters
deep down inside.Hope and optimism in this day and age are at a low ebb,maybe just maybe,STFC
can reinvigorate us once again.I really hope so  :)

on that, we are agreed!

I'll renew, and go to away games, as someone else said, I enjoy it even if we lose, especially the away days.

Few wins would go down well though.

I can understand people who travel a hundred miles just to see the game and go home straight after getting hacked off if the players put in no effort.

FWIW I believe that Mr Fitton and co have removed the fantasy from our football club...by which I mean they're thoroughly grounded in reality.  As fans of a shit lower league FC, we need a bit of fantasy from time to time. Years back when we were struggling in Div 4 in front of 2000 odd crowds...I knew we'd make the top flight and we did; this fantasy though was only achieved by cooking the books.

 I believe SSW understood this basic premise, which is why he used Diamond Mike, who didn't worry too much about reality, so when we went down in 05/06, we could have Wise and a shed load of staff and players even though we couldn't pay them...similarly Sturrock.

 This grounding in reality means it might take us a while to get out of L2  from next season.

So teams like Hull, Wigan, Reading, etc have all achieved success by being dodgy?

What a load of rubbish!

That;s only temporary though Reg.

The buzz/fantasy will come back once things get on track.

expectation levels

 To a realist, things are on track....

I think I'm also part of this minority that go knowing full well it's gunna be shit half the time, but love it anyway. Football is so much more than just the match. I remember travelling up to places like Oldham and Chesterfield in 05/06 knowing that we were garbage but not caring, and every now again you get a day like Orient away where the craic off the pitch is matched by the result on the pitch, resulting in a top day all round!

Biggest load of tosh I've read on here in a while.

In what way? Try a bit of deconstruction rather than a blanket write off.

 Nowhere in there does fantasy equate with being dodgy...my basic premise is that the fantasy element is essential in football, some are able to achieve it by backing it with money....the likes of Hull, Wigan etc.

 In our case it was partially achieved by dodgy dealing...which is why it wasn't sustainable. 

 We wont achieve anything without money in some degree being thrown at it, which the Board have stated they wont do.

 This isn't a criticism of the Board, rather an acceptance, that we will need to operate at a lower level to maintain financial satbility.

Stabilising the club finances leaves us at a disadvantage over those which spend more than they can afford, or which just generate more cash than us. Add the hangover from the previous board and we're at even more of a disadvantage. Oh well. At least we won't go out of business.

Of course long term, as the infinite credit financial fiddling game drops out of football, more and more clubs will find that they have to run themselves in a more sustainable manner. This might give us an advantage as they sort themselves out and we're a bit ahead of the game compared to some others. Or maybe not, we'll have to wait and see.

Hopefully running as a stable club would see us eventually averaging around our natural league position. Which I suppose is high-mid league one with the occasional adventuring season up or down. Could live with that.

As for this season compared to others when we've been shit. This year the "we're shit who cares", almost fun resignation to the shitness, doesn't seem to be there this year. Everybody seems more frustrated than accepting that it's part of supporting Swindon.

I didn't see much of our last relegation, but when Kingy kept us up 00/01 I remember much more of a collective excitement, even if we were shit. You can talk about the expectations, but that was off the back of Brady's going to buy us a super stadium empty promises, so I don't think it can be completely down to that.

 Of course the fiscal fallout of other clubs may see us in a position of strength in the future, but that is very difficult to predict, in terms of time scale.

I am pretty sure if we had a healthy league position say 8th now, Fitton and co likely would have chucked a few quid at it to get us over the final hurdle so to speak. Same in the Championship. If we got there there is no way we could survive up there now doing as we are now. I think any success is around a Stadium development so we are looking at League One (or lower) probably around 2013/14. A new stadium that is self funding would give us additional funds to throw at players until that time we carry on as we are. IMO. Our biggest lack is a "football man" on the board I think. Paying agents fees etc is all part of the game really and any decent player we agree a deal with and the agent wants their cut will say "thats fair enough, we will go elsewhere" and that agent gets his cut so if Swindon dont pay agent fees I applaud them however unless every club takes this stance we will always lose out on the better players unless we have a good league position/chance at promotion or genuinly want to play for Swindon Town. We are probably looking at around 5 years of bouncing betweens Leagues One and Two until a Stadium is in place etc. to get the balance sheet right and then have some spare cash to spend on players.

Panda Paws - what you say is so right, there is nothing like a good match day out, home or away, just remember the 7-1 drubbing at Forest, who didn't enjoy that day. Terrible result, but the fans supported the team more than they really deserved, we played our part as supporters.

Going completely off at a tangent here: Reg, you have been a supporter longer than myself which is a flipping long time, I want to ask you this, do you still enjoy match days?
Do you get like me totally demoralised by the performances of many players who do not give a shit about the shirt they pull over their necks? We as supporters deserve so much more.

At the end of the day we support a little side who could be big, we have a catchment area like Norwich, and like Norwich we should fill our ground, so why dont we?

Just look back to the heydays, and they are not so long ago ...
Under Ardilles, we played sensational football, others might believe Hoddle or Macari.
But the Ardilles area was the best for me, win or lose my God you came to the ground with great atmosphere and for the most you left feeling you had your moneys worth.

We need passion in the Swindon shirt, we need passion from the seats, get that back and Swindon will be back. We need to play our part again, if we do then maybe results will start turning around on the pitch.

Now that is probably the most senseless post of the year, so I apologise in advance, but I want to be proud to be a Swindon supporter again.

We are indeed at a disadvantage right now as others have continued to spend beyond their means.  3 Teams faced the consequences this year, others are beginning to publicly complain about hardship - a certain club like Stockport making it known players are for sale, imagine how we'd feel right now if we had to advertise our best players for sale when the play offs could be a possibility.  As Reg says, it's all down to how long this may take, we're one of a few lower league clubs finally accepting we have to live within our means.

FWIW, crowds are pretty good still, better than 05/06, thanks to the Boards Season ticket deal.  There aren't any missing thousands, certainly not over the past 30 years ish anyway.  I managed a very patchy attendance record in 03/04, go figure.  In fact, the old Board have been the only ones to cause a major dip in attendances to some extent, following big increases in prices combined with a collapsing of the squad.  A close to last effort at balancing the books and avoiding having to sell up before they could a ground development deal through.

I started watching in the early 80's, so everything's been rosey since then really, even now!!!

Question:

Do you lot think that the current owners would have been able to unravel the total financial mess that they took on from Mick the Bubble and his gang of crooks in 12 months?

I personally think it'll be another 12 months before the club is in a stable enough position to seriously look at moving forward in a meaningful way.

I don't think Malpas was a "mistake".  I think it was a calculated risk that was designed to keep things ticking over until such a time where the club is stable financially off the pitch and the owners have dealt with all the financial issues, including the Bill Power situation.

Until that situation arises, the owners may be considered to be a little foolhardy to throw immense amounts of cash at the playing squad and bearing in mind our finishing position last season, perhaps they felt that although there were shortcomings in the squad, significant investment at this time wouldn't be necessary to keep us in the division.

I said in the Huddersfield match day thread that we are as good as relegated. I still thank that will be case. I think that Wilson will be able to take this club to the championship. I think the board will invest cash into the playing squad. I don't think it will be this season and when they do, I think it will be in the 4th Division.

I guess my point is that you should keep your chin's up and remember, we're playing the long game. We are not Man City.

Oh blimey I agree with an Ironside post. Apart from the "as good as relegated" bit. We're bad, but we're not the only ones.

I've still got exactly the same passion as I've always had...however it's dormant, you can't get excited by some of the shit we've seen this season...you're right about needing to reclaim pride in being a Town fan, but we need to see a few performances and results to make it happen.

I can't believe some people on here actually. It's turning into thisis. I'm just happy we actually have a club to support. What's wrong? We have the best owners we have had for years and years and they are more likely to take us forward than the likes of Mike D etc. Besides when have we actually been good for the last 10 years? We haven't really. What do people expect? We are now being run like a football club should be run. We stick to our wage bill and we don't overspend etc etc. The board made a mistake with MM we all know that. I think Wilson will turn things around although it does look bad at the moment. But i was there when we went down to league two last time and if it happens again i'll be there again. Maybe a promotion season from league two, a few decent managers and new owners has raised expectations way too much?

To be honest i think half of them have moved on here

You know I cant remember anyone on here complaining about the management side, its the passion with the players which is the problem.

Sit down, take a drink, you must be in shock...

Which is fair enough and in some cases justified. But i can't remember the last time I saw a Swindon Town 11 all showing passion. Even the 2003/04 team didn't really show great passion they were just bloody good. No one plays for clubs/the passion of the game anymore as such. It's all about money.

A 1-0 defeat vs Reading towards the end of the 90's.  Lots of passion that night, still lost though, so it counts for fuck all.

And that little shit Cureton scored the winner...

Actually, the 4-1 (think they got 1) vs Cambridge back in the Hoddle era was probably the last game I remember seeing us really stoked up and it working a treat as well.  Hoddle got very wound-up by Beck's style and really wanted to rub their noses in it.  I'm sure he eithe megged someone or did a Cruyff turn in our own box rather than just clear it like he should have.

Would the Swansea game on NYD not count as passionate?

This is our second season that has been very dissapointing.

A better manager would have cleared out some of the players that have let us down in the summer. Its been a long drawn out falling out with a lot of the players.

I dont enjoy watching this team. They dont excite me. They dont try hard. Dare I say it but what we need is a Tommy Mooney. Someone who gives 100% and wont accept slacking from other players.

Im only going to Leicester away. Il keep going to home games, but I do what I want. I know Mex has left for games at 6am, got back at midnight, and worked for another 5 hours after. That is not healthy. I dont think many of the current squad would have the dedication to do that for anything!

At the moment I would say just chill out. Take a few games out, its a great time not to go if you are feeling this way. Hopefully we will have a massive clear out in the summer and we can come back and look forward to seeing some players who really do have some desire and effort.

 Game v Wigan under King...when they waltzed the league only losing 4 games, one being at the CG.

 Invincibile played out of his skin...interestingly he's just extended his contract at Killie today until 2011, which will mean an 8 year stint there.  Not many would have predicted that back then.

Next person who says "its just like thisis" gets banned.

When your team is shit it isn't implausible that people should want a bit of a moan and a whinge about it.Nobody thought we'd win the league and we certainly didnt think we'd be this wank.50% of supporting a team like Swindon is enjoying a bloody good moan you sanctamonius happy clappy cunts.

Yeah, but I remmember being so upset about that result. We needed a win so badly and they fluked it.

You cant measure a team trying hard. But 3,000 Swindon fans travelling to Stoke tells you something.

As regards the Swansea game, yes it was passionate. As was Bristol Rovers before that, and Nottingham Forest after that. But what has there been since? This season?

 Leeds could and should have been...ideal opportunity, good conditions, more or less full house...early sending off etc.

 But we imploded spectacularly and set the tone for what was to come.

Few and far between. Rarely this season has anyone written of a good performance, even when we've won!

Many came back after Tranmere on the first day and wrote that a better team would have beaten us.

Think I took my stand against the club when the Stratton Bank faithful were forced to give up their space and stand in the away end when West Ham came to town in the FA Cup years ago. I had a hissy fit and refused to go for a while. By the time I 'forgave' the club they had decided to close the Stratton Bank. That being the case, I stayed away!

Was that the game around 74/75? I recall one around then, when I lived on the South Coast, had been travelling for a bit and hadn't been for a while. Made the effort to get up for the game, went in the turnstiles in Shrivenham Road, to walk up to the TE as usual, to discover a fucking gert fence blocking the way...hadn't been there before, so thought I'd climb over it...got half way up when OB took exception and threw me out.

So had to walk round to the TE and pay again  >:(

26000+ in that night...magic when Trevor Anderson scored.

I think you'll find that the match referred to was the FA CUP 4th round 1989.Remember Fraser
was in unbeatable form - saves from Mark Ward and David Kelly standout.Big publicity for Digby
the following week,especially from Steve Curry in the Express calling him,"The best young keeper
in england".Btw,i was also at the 75 Cup replay against the Hammers.Sadly,we couldn't stop
Brooking that night.Eastoe and Anderson were a good combo.

Excellent thread. This was exactly the sort of debate i hoped would happen and one of the best TEF threads in a while. The reason I adressed this topic to Mr.Fitton is because the people that use this website are some of his most loyal customers, the majority of users on here are season ticket holders or go on a regular basis. Lets face it, he is the one who has the most to lose.

What I wanted to put across was very similar to what lucien was saying. My love for Swindon Town will never die, I will always be proud to say I support them and they are my team for life. However, my enthusiasm for the whole matchday is waning. The only things I look forward to is seeing my mates, popping into my parents place and the pre and post match rituals that I have had for 20/30 years. Quick whiskey in the merlin, a drink in the county, a couple in the winners, buying half time draw tickets off iris, listening to the radio 5 results music as Im driving home. These are the things that keep me going to Swindon. The football doesnt actually come into it at the moment which is fucking criminal.

I have seen fucking awful teams over the years, iffys side were pure shit, when i first started watching in 82-3 we were fucking awful, but the difference now is they really doesnt seem to be any connection with the crowd or any sort of attitude. Others in this thread have alluded to this and I think its vitally important.

I dont think I will be renewing, personal circumstances for me have changed and its getting more and more difficult to justify a 240 mile round trip. but I wont be giving up entirely Im going to leicester and how I would love another crack at the scum.

Take what you will from this I have been rambling and im not as eloquent as some on here, I just find myself in need of a break and maybe Spencer is right a few months off and i will be back full time and spitting blood again.

That's fair enough Mex, and fair play to you for sparking a very good thread.

It's not really much to do with how we've been playing, but I think over the last 12 months I've really come to realise there are a lot more important things than football and other things have to take priority. I can't say I'd travel that far every Saturday to watch us. I can't see my love for the club ever dying, and I still have that blind faith that success is around the corner I had when I was 6. Suppose to you have to believe!

 Was that the replay from the 1-1 at upton park? If so we should have won up there, as i think it was Tommy Taylor took anderson clean out when through on goal, and din't even get booked.

That's the one...

I thought we were going to get a good pasting in the stands.
A Hammers fan dismantled the chain securing the food stall after half time and started to swing it around his head. Swindon fans in the area of ground I was in in hit the deck, frightening.

It was the main game featured on 'The Big Match' the following day.Brian Moore was very complimentary on our performance and on some of our players.The great Peter Eastoe scored
a fine equaliser and was interviewed after the game.

  Dont remember that, but then again i was only about 3 foot 3 and couldn't see much of anything!

 Certainly the phrase not fit to clean their boots, is applicable to that side and our present lot...they were however in the same division.  In that side...John Trollope, David Moss, Peter Eastoe, Frank Burrows, Joe Butler, Trevor Anderson.

Eastoe's debut V Carlisle, i think was my first ever home game. Hooked from then on!

 Eastoe did cost us 80K which was fair dollar back then probably the equivalent of us spending 500K on a player now.

I completely understand how you feel Mex and I think it's quite honest of you to not make your excuses elsewhere. LS raised he point that he's lost his love of football. That's very close to how I have felt for most of this season.

Orient away was exactly how things should be at the County Ground - I know away games the crowd is louder but we were getting behind the team before kick off. The team then played their guts out from the off. You could see what it meant to them and you could tell what it meant to the fans. It was more than the three points, it felt as if we'd got our 'old Swindon' back,

The reason I say this is because I believe that small improvements could create a snowball effect. I sure hope so and get the feeling that's what Danny Wilson believes for matters on the pitch.

W
West Ham 1 : Swindon 1

Paddington Station was a sea of red and white, I met people on the tube I hadn't seen in years.

Outside the ground, some West Ham fans asked me what the heck was going on, they said less people showed up for Liverpool the Saturday before.

Taylor's foul on Eastoe would be a straight red today.

Eastoe, not a big fella, received the longer ball and laid it off to Mossy, very accurately throughout the game.  Mossy showed he belonged in the top flight, where he had more success than Eastoe.

Mossy and Eastoe had pace and both of them knew where the goal was. 

Thats the one. (sigh)

That was a great cup tie,as was the replay at the CG.West Ham went onto win the cup that season(1975)

Peter Eastoe is one of my all time favourite Town centre forwards.

Town fans at home and away chanting, "Eastoe, Eastoe, Eastoe", was always great.

Outside the Town End there used to be some graffiti in the 70's, with the words 'Eastoe for England'.

Whilst i wouldn't go that far,he was a very,very good striker for us.1974/75 i think he got 32 league and cup goals.


I went to Upton Park 3 years later and saw us win in the League Cup 2nd round.To think that we had a

forward line that night of Chic Bates and Chris Guthrie! Ian Miller ran the Hammers ragged that night and

we were deserved winners.

I've not commented on this thread yet, but I think I will now.

I think I'm more in Mex's boat that the "til I die" brigade".  As I've said on many occasions football's not all about the winning for me, if we lose we lose, if we win then great.  I want to come to the CG and have a good time, whether that be due to the footie, the atmosphere, the pissed up can't remember a thing about the match, whatever.

The problem I have at the moment is that from the manager to the players I really don't get the vibe that anyone really gives a shit about the club other than us long suffering fans.  As I've just posted on a thisis article, I'd rather turn up and see the likes of Morrison, Kennedy, Allen, and Macklin be given the opportunity to show us what they can do than turn up and watch the same below average "pro's" play like shit week after week.

At least you'd get the impression that they'd be giving it their all.  Look at Stockport a couple of years ago they pretty much had a youth team out representing their club, yeah they went down but they look pretty good for it now.

I'm very much 50/50 re: renewing my ST for next season, down to personal circumtances and the thought of sitting through yet another season of mediocrity.

Bring on the yoof!!!

Stockport are in financial trouble, so not so well off for it.

They have got a fair few decent assets to sell though, that they brought through.

I think some passion would make a world of difference, at the Crewe game the other week I deliberately (as did a lot of the supporters) stayed and clapped the team off, especially Callum Kennedy as he had tried his heart out and looked close to tears at the final whistle - really looked like he cared. But then again there were also supporters walking out saying 'why are you clapping - we lost' so I suppose its 6 and 2 3's in some ways behind the supporters and players.

Oh I don't bloody know, would just be nice to win occassionally though!

What's that got to do with it Rob?  You're saying Stockport are in financial woe because of the youngsters in their team?  I would argue it's probably helped them out if anything.

took a while to catch up to where this thread is now.a cracking read with many differing views.i've already had my say but must add that,how anyone can compare it to thisis should hang their heads in shame.this thread to me proves why this forum is the best stfc one.
good work everyone

I will ruin it Arriba and say i think Stockport would be SHATTTERED if they had to sell Pilkington!

He looks a good player.

I like what you did there!

I think those that are talking about "players having passion for the shirt" are a little wide of the mark.

There have been very few players who actually have a passion for Swindon Town.  Some of those will be local lads, others players from elsewhere who settled here, played well for us for x years, were popular with the fans etc.  but even they will never have the passion for STFC that we do.

Lets have a reality check. We are not Man United.   Outside of a 5-10,000 group of fans, no one dreams about playing for Swindon Town.  They dream about playing for Man United, Liverpool,Arsenal, Real Madrid, England etc.

But this does not mean that our players cannot show passion. It should be a passion to do their best for professional pride, for their manager, to be a winner and achieve something. Most of all perhaps out of respect for the people who pay their wages - i.e. US.  I just dont think that its realistic to expect a group of players from all over the country (and the world to an extent) to genuinley care about the club the size of ours, if you do, you are deluded.

And this is the problem at the moment. Our players, by and large,  are gutless. They get outfought be virtually every team we play.  This has now translated to the fans who feel apathetic about watching a group of players who allow themselves to be bullied and outworked by sometimes technically inferior teams.  Our defence also plays a major part in this for me. 

We as fans dont go into games thinking that if we work hard and keep it tight we could nick a 1-0 here because A. we conceed 2 goals a game on average and B. we have a special ability to wilt under pressure and conceed late equalisers or winners.  again, because a large number of the players are gutless and hide when under pressure.

I know its a subject that has been mentioned loads, but our team seems to lack any kind of leadership whatsoever.  Whoever has been Captain, not just Aljofree, cannot lift the other players.  I've no idea why this is

Most decent teams, even really good ones have a couple of players with an element of thuggishness about them. Our players are like fairies most of the time. I'd be well happy to see us sign a couple of big aggressive skinheads with mediocre ability at the moment, because I do genuinley believe that we have some talenteted players by league 1 standards and getting a couple of hard men would give the players with ability like Macca, Cox & Mcgovern a platform on which to perform. 

How many 20 man brawls have we been in this season? Not enough, i'd wager.

I'll get a season ticket when we start averaging 1.6 a game.

Exactly. Someone kicks one of our players and the rest of them dont look bothered 90% of the time. The players might come out with PR guff about "how all the lads get on well and have a good spirit" but we dont see any evidence of that on the pitch.

Dont lie, I see you as the 1.2 sort.

Sorry.

It was in relation to trying to copy a team, Stockport having financial problems would suggest they've spent beyond their means still.  No idea how or why, maybe they paid them all too much to stick around with them.  The only 2 clubs I ever thought it worth us copying are now doing a good impression of clubs in turmoil - Charlton and Crewe.  We'd fit in between the two in terms of size and potential etc and they seemed to be well run businesses while managing to produce teams worth watching.  Crewe seem to be struggling with life after Gradi and Charlton got a little caught up in the whole "lets get a new Manager in every 6 months thing".

We are trailblazers now, we just don't know whether this season is going to symptematic of how things will be for years, or if we are just going to experience a few years of pain before the rest of the league has to adjust itself and we find ourselves ahead of the game.

Managers?

We're getting there.

Oh right I get you, no I wasn't meaning we should copy the Stockport County mantra, all I meant was it's good to see a club playing young'uns and it playing off compared to us this season. 

I work saturdays now and feel sadly like,aside from the pre-match pubbage,i'm not missing out on much.Most of the mid-week games i do make are pretty uninspiring,the players don't seem up for it and the atmosphere has been effected by this knowledge.Hard to get worked up and behind the players if your waiting for them to concede,wonder if the season ticket offer has effected it as well?A lot of Town enders maybe moving to other parts of the ground?
I don't expect the board to pump in a ton of money but we need some new players,need some excitement and some inducement for fans to support the team again.
At the end of the day i'd sooner be a town fan than anything else,sure it'll come good again  :)

Most decent teams, even really good ones have a couple of players with an element of thuggishness about them. Our players are like fairies most of the time. I'd be well happy to see us sign a couple of big aggressive skinheads

I like that theory. i can remember going to Elm Park mid 90's and we nicked a 1-0 win, all the reading fans i know whinged that we were a team of 6 ft skinhead bruisers, and it wasnt football/fair, blah blah blah. One of my favourite ever wins, so maybe we do need that sort of element, that or put in place a no more than grade 2 haircut policy for players when signing.

Easton's got worse since he cut his hair off. I think the trampy look is the way to go.

A-fucking-men to that statement, CT!

I don't think we have one 'nasty fucker' in the squad at the moment. Gurney was the last one I can remember, but he allegedly got moved on by King for a crime against a fellow squad member.

Criticise Gurney all you want, but very few visiting players would fuck with a character like him, and that air of menace that he had about him permeated throughout the squad.

Ditto that for the likes of Ruddock, Mooney, Calderwood and Taylor. All very different players, but none of them took any shit and they all demanded / commanded /expected total commitment and performances of their fellow players. It's almost like having an extra player if the whole team buys into the 'I'll be OK - XYZ will pile in if I'm in the shit' and then lets go of any fear about the opposition and gets on with playing their own game.

The more I think about it, we really could do with a couple of capable hard fuckers in the squad, just to put some backbone into the side and to get some passion back on the terraces. I think most of us want or expect to see a mixture of silky skills, 100% effort and some blood and guts during a match, but some added passion and an element of the unexpected that a hard player brings to the game would be a welcome relief from some of the man-bag wearing PC cunts in the current squad.

 

Someone like Scott Leitch in his prime would be fantastic...

Or Nijholt

Terry Fenwick was our great leg breaker in his hort period here I seem to remember.

Chris Kamara, just ask that bloke from Shrewsbury with the broken jaw.

If only we had one player half as good as Scott Leitch in our midfield today.

Robbie Savage played well for Derby at Old Trafford on Tuesday night. Well enough, unfortunately, to suggest they won't be looking to loan him out to the Third Division again (especially as he seems to get on with the new boss), but he'd be exactly what we need. He'd even look a half-decent footballer at this level. Is there anyone else of his ilk that we could go for?

he was fucking awful at Brighton!!

and he's not exactly a hard man, just a wind up merchant

Yeah, him or Dave Bennett

Terry Fuckwit.

I always considered John Moncur to be a bit of a toughie. He had bags of ability, but also a bit of a mean streak.

For real nastiness though, Gittens took some beating, anyone else remember him standing on an oxford players head at the manor? Right in front of the Town fans! Happy days.

Was he? Fuck him then. I always thought of him as a player who always gave 100 per cent (as long as he gets on with the manager!), but if he didn't while on loan at Brighton then he wouldn't here.

Can you remember Brian (animal)Williams...hard as nails and had a beard that made him look harder.

Gittens for me...

Then its agreed.

We should stop trying to play football and just kick the fuck out of the opposition.  I'm all for it, I really think I'd enjoy us getting beat with 9 men after a few two footed challenges and 20 man brawls than some of the meek capitulations we're endured this season.

Ian Rush rated him as one of the best defenders he played against while Gittens was at Southampton..praise indeed.

Could do with Gittens now........Tim Parkin as well.

...and Lee Collins and Darren Bullock?

i see the points regarding a lack of a hardman-men in our team.i agree,but it's more than that we are missing.we lack leaders full stop.nobody seems to grasp the bull by the horns,so to speak.you dont have to be hard men to win games,but you need to stand up and be counted.

who was our hard man last year?

Comminguess

I'm not sure Monky was all that hard he was just fucking mental.

It was Easton last year but he's turned into a guitar-playing sandal-wearing hippy

And before him Wilf Dixon. Home v Fulham in the Cup took their bloke out straight from the kick off.

The best teams have always had a hard battling midfielder. I'm not supporting a Wimbledon type approach but a more physical approach might add a bit of steel. Too many teams just walk through us without a challenge anywhere near them. Jack Smith for example just sticks himself into reverse when faced with the opposition and Commingues got stuck in, and this is repeated all over the park where we have replaced tough players with shite fairies.

Commingues has only made 9 starts for Cardiff. Still managed to rack up 4 yellow cards and 1 red! Id have him back anyday.

Chris Ramsey ?

Ray McHale, hard as nails and a good player to boot.

"And we will fight forever more , because of Ray McHale!".............