Thetownend.com

In response to Vic Morgans blog on the subject, I wrote something for The Washbag about fan representation, it's here, so please feel free to read it, comment, call me a cunt, or just ignore this

http://thewashbag.com/2013/12/09/nows-the-right-time-to-embrace-the-fans-power/

I don't disagree with the substantive argument...but there are some nits to pick.

Ritchie, it's Ritchie.  Our last owner who was a Town fan....Sir Seton Wills, didn't get us very far; last Chairman... Cliff Puffett, both regimes took us to administration.

Most of the 20th Century the club was not run by captains of industry but by small time purveyors of swine and dough boys, like Eric Lane and Wilf Castle.

It was the catastrophic decision taken in 83/84 when we finished a historical low in Div 4, that the decision was taken to dispense with the traditional 1 share 1 vote....Co-Op model, which had served the club for near on a century.

The idea was to enable rich individuals to put money in return for having the clout to make decisions without recourse to the small shareholders....which has brought us to the current model, whereby owners have carte blanche to do exactly as they see fit without any checks or balances, save the kind of direct action which eventually removed the Wills and Diamandis.

We now have a model where a chancer like McCrory, can pick up the club for a £....mess about a bit for a few months, then sell it on for presumably a tidy sum as thanks for his "efforts"  Not exactly what was perceived back in the 80's.

Nice idea but most Town fans are fucking idiots.

So are most people generally, would you abolish parliamentary democracy on that basis? Never heard of the "wisdom of crowds"?

I'd like to think, in the model I'd suggested, that 'fucking idiots' wouldn't get very far in any vote for a fan rep.

Fucking idiot, though is such a relative concept, that even Boris Johnson might have difficulty quantifying.

After all one man's candidate for fan rep is another man's Tory MP (ergo an FI)

We're stuck with what we've got....if Power fucks about then our only recourse is direct action.

A big opportunity was missed when Black decided to sell. If the fans had been organised and getting ready for a takeover the possibility would have been there and I reckon it would have been Black's preferred choice.

Problem is that everyone talks about it and no one does anything. Form a single fan body, get rid of the various groups that exist at present, and start organising so we're ready the next time the opportunity presents.

Before anyone asks, I'm not doing anything as I can't be arsed.

There you are then. Easy to carp.

Won't someone think of the carp, Eastern Europeans eat them on Christmas Eve.

Re Regs nits, apologies for the Ritchie slip, terrible really.

As for the 'Captains of Regional Industry' I wasn't talking about Town at that point, but more the game in general, how it's gone from prominent local chairs, to opaque foreign ownership models when no one, including the Club staff in many cases, has a clue who really pulls the strings.

I'll bow to your superior knowledge of Towns ownership, prior to the lat 80s when I started going, maybe you should write a piece on it for The Washbag, if you could be arsed. I'd be interested to know more.

I thought it was a good, sensible article making a number of reasonable points in a coherent way.

There is no market for thinking of this kind.

The idea mooted in the article is about as far from parliamentary democracy as you can get while still being a democracy.

Parliamentary democracy isn't really a democracy is it? Did you or I get to vote on the recent MP pay rise?

I like this idea. Ex mos posters opinions. Reg this week, leroy next maybe?

Kingston Robin after that please.

Perhaps Riddle could resurrect his away day match reports, keeping the tradition of barely mentioning the game, whilst having paragraph upon paragraph of drinking and stripper chat. I'd read it.

Yeah, but I'm not the one moaning about us needing fan ownership.

Have they been spotted recently? Last time I saw them was at Crewe away, when leroy dropped his guts and cleared out the pub post game.

I completely lack the discipline to write seriously these days....used to do the odd bit back in the early fanzine mid to late 80's, but then I kind of took a lot of things seriously...whereas now I don't.

Perhaps not, but you were happy enough to criticise the efforts of those who had been trying to bring it about. Easy to say, not so easy to do

Did you have a hand in the 69er (so to speak)

Reg would be more of a BTN man, I'm sure.

I saw Leroy at the CG before the Carlise game, I nodded, he blanked me.

The MOS way.

Where's Townfish these days? Used to see him around loads, but not seen him for ages. Although that might be due to my own change in habits - tend to just go to the game then go home these days rather than go to the pub before/after. Ah, the joys of parenthood!

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MOS messageboard was great craic.

Leroy and Riddle used to basically talk about Millie Clode and meatball marinara subway sandwiches and very little about football.

Millie Clode was amazing though.

You do the site a disservice though, there was also  the forensic post match analysis.............................




Of that weeks MasterChef.

Spot on...

We have to many different supporter groups already imo. Just have one big one and make clear what and why you are doing things.

This statement for example

Strengthen the bonds between the club and community through regular, open and honest Q&A sessions between the board, Trust STFC and Swindon Town Supporters’ Club.

The moment they allowed Jeremy Wray to speak at a meeting but not go on record done it for me.Personally I would like to see the supporters club and the Trust start from scratch as a new entity.Now with th the right PR etc I think they could actually get a lot more people on board and get bigger numbers

Also on the trust site do they have a forum?

The idea of fan representation is a noble one and worth pursuing I think. Stumbling block is to hold any say over decisions at the club (or even to really be involved in discussions) any fan group would need some kind of financial weight behind it as well as just goodwill and intent.

With the best will in the world, don't see where that money is coming from.

No, I criticised people just talking about it and not doing anything about it.

I haven't seen any actual efforts to bring fan ownership about, just a lot of people talking about it.

First problem is having the Trust and a Supporters Club. Probably some others. We're too small to have multiple groups.

"The moment they allowed Jeremy Wray to speak at a meeting but not go on record done it for me."

Oh good, this one again.

It was a public meeting, are you honestly saying if you'd been there (I wasn't incidentally) and Jezza had turned up and said 'look, there's things I want to say, but due to non disclosure agreements (or what ever it was) they can't be minuted' you'd have said 'No Jeremy, keep stum, that's against the basic principle of a trust'?

Bollocks, you'd have been baying for gossip, just like any of us.


"Personally I would like to see the supporters club and the Trust start from scratch as a new entity.Now with th the right PR etc I think they could actually get a lot more people on board and get bigger numbers"


I agree with this, a better, more official link up between Trust and Supporters Club, maybe even one membership for both, would, imo, be a very positive step.

The NDA is over now,is he prepared to go on record so you can say them now. You are right about wanting gossip but this a trust,a group who want to be taken seriously,if like you say that is the case someone on the board should have made it clear it is either minuted or nothing said at all.

Ha ha. If he was under an NDA he couldn't discuss any of it at a Trust meeting.

And if I'd been there I'd have said bollocks to that, I'm recording it and putting it on YouTube.

I don't disagree, BUT the make up of the trust has changed since then, and I think it's a bit harsh to constantly use this to bash them every time the topic of fan ownership comes up.

I wasn't there and don't know what was said, but am happy to email those who were and see if he's happy for it to go on record now.

If only so we don't have to have this discussion every time the word 'Trust' is mentioned.

I was at that trust meeting, everything JW said in that meeting has now been disclosed by the man himself on this very forum.

That is fine but it is a gripe I have

So I've noticed. ;-)

I agree it's not ideal, but I think we should be able to move on from it.

Also, how often did Jed hide behind NDAs when asked questions he didn't want to answer? Jeremy is hardly unique here, and I feel the fault lies with him, not the Trust.

Disagree. The problem was not with the non-disclosure per se, but allowing it in a meeting that was supposed to be open and minuted. DRS is right, it goes against the Trust's ethos. You're also right though that while it was certainly a bollock dropped, the Trust should be able to move on from it.

I'd suggest getting a plant going to the next Trust meeting and offering to reveal stuff so long as you don't minute it, just so you can go "No. That would be wrong. We have made that mistake before and now we have learned from it". Then stand there looking all square-jawed and integrity-ful. Maybe with a slight wind ruffling your hair a bit.

Not on the board, so I can't do that, it's a fine idea though, even if the person I'm thinking who'd be ideal to do it, would need a wig or possibly hair plugs to pull it off.

By the way is there a forum on the trust site?

Not currently no

The forum on the old Trust site ended up with Stilton talking to himself....it's a shame he couldn't have lured Dosser in there, they could have had hours of fun.

Gerry Stilton and Dosser finally getting to post on a forum together would be like the movie HEAT. Two behemoths of the internet finally on the same thread. Make it happen.

MOS was a classic back in the day, Lerot, Riddler and KingstonRobin used to take up far too much of my Saturdays  :Ride On Fatbury's Lovestick:

Kr lurks on here. I expect Leroy and riddel, do but they are probably too busy bumming each other  to post ;)

You make the occasional contribution ;)

I see what Sutton tried to do there, do you know he's also hired some actor to turn up to games and London Reds meets occasionally, pretending to be KR.

He thinks he's thrown us off the scent, but we're onto him.

I think there are only about 6 posters on this site, the rest are Sutton's alter egos.

At least talking to myself I get a bit of sense..







Sometimes.