EU Referendum

[ron dodgers]

yarp, indeed we do. My father-in-law voted out as he doesn't like change, oops.

[jayohaitchenn]

If anyone voted out because of immigration, you have been lied to.

[Arriba]

And the £350 million going into the nhs was also a lie.

[herthab]

I'm 51 (So one of the aged?). I voted remain as I believed (and still do) that there are more positives to being in The EU than out of it. The other reason is that I have absolutely no faith in the 'political elite' in this country, who have proved time and again to be self-serving cunts of the highest order.

Whether I agree with the outcome of the referendum or not, it's done and we all move on.

[Only Me]

And the £350 million going into the nhs was also a lie.

I don't believe they actually said this. I believe they said it could go to the NHS rather than would.

The Remain voters seem to cling on this as a statement (and I am sure we all know why).

Sent from my SM-G935F

[Arriba]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/06/24/nigel-farage-350-million-pledge-to-fund-the-nhs-was-a-mistake/

Never mind, it was only a mistake on the leave campaign's part.

[Bennett]

IDS is now on Andrew Marr claiming he never said about the £350m into the NHS.
Even with a poster up and the bus graffiti raised he stuck to his guns.

[chalkies_shorts]

Politicians lie. It's what they do to get people to vote their way.its nothing new and nobody should be surprised. Now it's up to people to hold them to account. Cameron and Gideon told some whoppers as well. Both parties acted disgracefully.
Remain had absolutely everything in their favour and they fucked up. Leave didn't win,  Remain lost.
Labour and the Tories are now tearing each othercapart and neither are trusted. This referendum has got people interested in politics again but it is an absolute game changer in the UK and the EU, which may well fall apart now.

[pauld]

I don't believe they actually said this. I believe they said it could go to the NHS rather than would.

They did. Repeatedly. Morning after morning, on the Today programme, Gove, Boris and Farage, all made me spit coffee all over my kitchen as I listened to them, all previously stated that they'd dimsantle the NHS/replace it with private healthcare, said we should vote leave so that £350m could be spent on the NHS instead.

Oh and they painted it all over their fucking bus.

CS is right - politicians lie, all the time, on both sides and no-one should be surprised when they're caught out. But on this, the "Oh, no we won't actually be able to reduce immigration after all", and Boris' marked reluctance now to invoke article 50 to actually start the process of getting out. These were core planks of the leave vote and they're publicly ditching them, less than 48 hours after the result. No-one's surprised they lied, but these have to be some of the fastest U turns in political history. And it rather begs the question, if it's not about those core planks, what did the Leave campaign actually stand for?

[RobertT]

The Labour party seems to have lost the plot.  The only way forward seems to be for lots of MP's to resign and allow new candidates to receive the party mandate, given the so many of them are now at odds with the party membership.  The oddity is that they seem to be so personally intertwined with the EU membership that they are missing the point that Corbyn is probably a good match to the new UK perception with the EU.  They seem intent on getting someone in who is pro-EU.

The Conservatiives, as always, likely to forget any sort of personal views subside in the interest of personal gain.  I fully expect someone like Johnson to get the leadership and then they'll just merrily forget they were ever pro-EU.

As for the EU, this will not dent it unless one of the founding countries gets twitchy and has similar thoughts.  They've put up with us for economic reasons alone, the on-going expansion will replace our market in time and they may even recoup our lost net contribution to their budget through more duties on imports/exports.  There is even a chance this makes them move more quickly to a unified version of a state.

[Reg Smeeton]

Whether I agree with the outcome of the referendum or not, it's done and we all move on.

Exactly, however nothng wrong in picking over the bones.  My particular favourite atm is the stories from the Welsh Valleys and places in the NE like Hartlepool, who receive most EU funding due to economic deprivation, having some of the bigger Brexit majorities.

These people must hope that some of our memebership contribution is now going to go their way.....maybe under a Labour government, but it doesn't work like that for free market Brexit. The opportunities seen by the likes of Farage/Gove etc can only be achieved by taking more of an ax to what remains of the post war social democratic settlement.

[pauld]

I think you're right about Labour and horlock is right about the Tories. One of the few positives to come out of this cluster fuck could be for both parties to disintegrate and see a massive realignment of British politics. The reason we are where we are now is that our political class of all shades is utterly discredited and out of touch with the electorate they claim to represent.

[Peter Venkman]

Exactly, however nothng wrong in picking over the bones.  My particular favourite atm is the stories from the Welsh Valleys and places in the NE like Hartlepool, who receive most EU funding due to economic deprivation, having some of the bigger Brexit majorities.

These people must hope that some of our memebership contribution is now going to go their way.....maybe under a Labour government, but it doesn't work like that for free market Brexit. The opportunities seen by the likes of Farage/Gove etc can only be achieved by taking more of an ax to what remains of the post war social democratic settlement.

This story.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2016/jun/25/view-wales-town-showered-eu-cash-votes-leave-ebbw-vale

[RobertT]

what did the Leave campaign actually stand for?

Legislative power.  Choosing where more of the money is spent, choosing which laws to enshrine, choosing how to "control" immigration.  In the long term, protecting the status quo of us as a "country" on our own.

Not that this was ever covered much in the campaign.  Maybe because it just doesn't hit home emotionally enough to outweigh the economic argument in a country dominated by self interest.

Imagine now being out - would we vote to join an organisation who has an aim to absorb your country and eventually diminish it to a sort of devolved organisation like the Welsh Assembly?  In return you get a much better chance of economic growth

[Reg Smeeton]

I think you're right about Labour and horlock is right about the Tories. One of the few positives to come out of this cluster fuck could be for both parties to disintegrate and see a massive realignment of British politics. The reason we are where we are now is that our political class of all shades is utterly discredited and out of touch with the electorate they claim to represent.

Perversely greater problems to come out of this, lie with Labour. I've been saying for a while that a split is inevitable, and we're starting to see that happening now.  An SDP style party could well emerge.

What is likely to happen on the right is more difficult to see....undoubtedly there's going to be plenty of disappointment that Brexit doesn't mean cattle trucks of people heading off to Eastern European gulags, rounded up by brown shirted state police.