EU Referendum

[Barry Scott]

For me, the vast bulk of the blame lies with the politicians who've ignored and abused a whole class of people for 20-30 years. But we'll all pay the price for that.

Well put. But I'd go so far as to say it's not so much a class of people they've ignored and abused, but the majority of the tax-paying populace. I think of the country more as the political class, their mates, the super-rich and big business and then everyone else (predominately distracted, distanced and largely ignorant).

[RobertT]

So basically shame on anyone who didn't agree with you? Brilliant

FWIW It's worth i voted remain but i totally get why other people didn't. The last few months the media the in/out campaigners have been nothing but a joke. The way the majority have looked down their noses and belittled anyone who disagrees with what they think is an absolute fucking joke.

I know it's not solely the EU fault but you tell me hand on heart that you can't relate to someone who has had to resort to using foodbanks or has had their disabilty allowance cut or had to pay taxes on a spare bedroom that all of a sudden they should believe the very people who put them in that position in the first place?

Cameron bought this on with his own in party bollocks and it's backfired but don't blame the people who have been royally fucked over by this lot for not wanting to trust them again.

EDIT.Seen your post a few down

The oddity being that all those things you mention are down to the incumbent Govt. decisions on legislation that was never impacted by the EU membership, so won't change.

I do think it was right to vote out, simply because a far bigger majority actually don't believe in the EU Project, they keep thinking it was something it's not.  It was never due to be a trade block, it was always supposed to be a Super State.  I'm sad we are leaving, but better to get out when that majority exists - democracy must have it's day to avoid further moves to frustration.

[pauld]

I was just quoting the same sentence as 4D, but Paul's now replied.

I always respect your political posts, Paul, because you seem quite balanced, but I was quite surprised to see such a sweeping generalisation from you and had just wrote 1000 words of vitriol to ask you to explain that statement - 4D put it better!

Hopefully I've explained it a bit. It was too sweeping and I'm sorry for that (so shame on me) - I think there are a lot of very genuine reasons why people have voted the way they have and their votes have to be respected. The worst thing that could happen now is for parliament to try to resist/bend the result. It is what it is. However, I think a lot of people are going to be quite horrified at the consequences of what they've voted for - we'll be hearing a lot of "I didn't vote for that" in coming weeks/months. Well, yes actually you did, and the fault for that lies with the politicians of all sides and the media who have run a disgraceful campaign based on lies, fears and prejudice rather than actually trying to inform people what the possible consequences were

[RobertT]

Well put. But I'd go so far as to say it's not so much a class of people they've ignored and abused, but the majority of the tax-paying populace. I think of the country more as the political class, their mates, the super-rich and big business and then everyone else (predominately distracted, distanced and largely ignorant).

I'm not sure how this vote helps the working and under class though?  Scotland will leave the Union and the remaining UK will overwhelmingly vote Right wing at general elections giving the Conservative party a bigger majority most of the time.

[pauld]

So basically shame on anyone who didn't agree with you? Brilliant

No not at all

FWIW It's worth i voted remain but i totally get why other people didn't. The last few months the media the in/out campaigners have been nothing but a joke. The way the majority have looked down their noses and belittled anyone who disagrees with what they think is an absolute fucking joke

Totally agree and I said that, in so many words.

I know it's not solely the EU fault but you tell me hand on heart that you can't relate to someone who has had to resort to using foodbanks or has had their disabilty allowance cut or had to pay taxes on a spare bedroom that all of a sudden they should believe the very people who put them in that position in the first place?

Cameron bought this on with his own in party bollocks and it's backfired but don't blame the people who have been royally fucked over by this lot for not wanting to trust them again.

Again, completely agree and that's what I meant by "Shame on our entire political class for ignoring the very real concerns that lie behind this vote - every election they say they've heard what people are saying and this time they really will listen. They've done that for the past 20-30 years, and now they are reaping the consequences"

[Don Rogers Sock]

The oddity being that all those things you mention are down to the incumbent Govt. decisions on legislation that was never impacted by the EU membership, so won't change.

I do think it was right to vote out, simply because a far bigger majority actually don't believe in the EU Project, they keep thinking it was something it's not.  It was never due to be a trade block, it was always supposed to be a Super State.  I'm sad we are leaving, but better to get out when that majority exists - democracy must have it's day to avoid further moves to frustration.

I did say it's not the EU fault about thoses things. My gripe it appears that people can't accept that maybe these people had genuine reasons for wanting out

[pauld]

I did say it's not the EU fault about thoses things. My gripe it appears that people can't accept that maybe these people had genuine reasons for wanting out

That's fine. I'm not one of them

[Don Rogers Sock]

That's fine. I'm not one of them

I know you are not mate.Think my post is out of frustration at the amount of shite i am seeing on social media.

[pauld]

I know you are not mate.Think my post is out of frustration at the amount of shite i am seeing on social media.

Oh Christ, I haven't dared go near Facebook or Twitter today

[DarloSTFC84]

The number of "If you voted for x then unfriend me" comments I've seen from otherwise rational people on FB has been fucking embarrassing. I didn't vote either way but felt like unfriending these people anyway, I chose instead to rise above it and ignore such crap.

It's so difficult to ignore when some of them are fit as fuck. Especially when they've just come back from girls holidays and the picture albums go up...

[pauld]

Here's one of those unintended consequences people didn't realise they were voting for, already:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-36618796

"I hope the formula of co-sovereignty - to be clear, the Spanish flag on the Rock - is much closer than before."

[horlock07]

Interesting that this appeared in a Murdoch rag?

http://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/comment/it-will-take-an-age-to-recover-from-this-victory-for-the-exit-fantasists-zzfpxsc66

[Wobbly Bob]

Feel as if figuratively the country has just been diminished and dumped a few hundred miles further into the mid Atlantic, off the beaten track on the road to insignificant little island status.

Good luck to the negotiators, the exit article needs to be triggered as soon as possible, but sounds as if Leave are in no rush.
Hopefully it will be borne in mind that the mandate to leave was by no means overwhelming.
Europe could also play hardball in an effort to discourage a domino effect,
and all will be played out against a background of Tory leadership maneuvering.
Not good.

Oh and Corbyn has to go. Far too little and too late in terms of providing any sort of guidance for Labour's core support.

Still, at least cucumber curvature will no longer be an issue.
Finding the people to pick them might be a problem though.

[horlock07]

Shame on the selfish older voters for saddling the young with the consequences of a protest vote that won't affect them

Interesting to see the breakdown by ages:

(YouGov poll)
18-24: 75% Remain
25-49: 56% Remain
50-64: 44% Remain
65+: 39% Remain

[suttonred]

Feel as if figuratively the country has just been diminished and dumped a few hundred miles further into the mid Atlantic, off the beaten track on the road to insignificant little island status.

Good luck to the negotiators, the exit article needs to be triggered as soon as possible, but sounds as if Leave are in no rush.
Hopefully it will be borne in mind that the mandate to leave was by no means overwhelming.
Europe could also play hardball in an effort to discourage a domino effect,
and all will be played out against a background of Tory leadership maneuvering.
Not good.

Oh and Corbyn has to go. Far too little and too late in terms of providing any sort of guidance for Labour's core support.

Still, at least cucumber curvature will no longer be an issue.
Finding the people to pick them might be a problem though.

Well seeing as the city types will be out of work I'd suggest they make themselves useful