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25% => The Boardroom => Topic started by: yeo on Monday, May 16, 2005, 19:15:47



Title: The Attendence short fall this year
Post by: yeo on Monday, May 16, 2005, 19:15:47
http://www.truststfc.co.uk/pdf/gates.pdf

(From the Trust site)

Old ground I know but makes for shocking reading .

All bar 2 games home figures down by loads.I knew it was bad but this really brings it home.Now tell me its not at least in part the prices.


Title: The Attendence short fall this year
Post by: Whits on Monday, May 16, 2005, 19:18:18
looking at it the QPR/Plymouth and Brighton going up was a bit of a mare but even city brought half what they did the previous season. We're getting a bad rep for the ticket prices now  :?


Title: The Attendence short fall this year
Post by: yeo on Monday, May 16, 2005, 19:19:57
Not the point Whits its down 1000 plus on HOME figures alone.


Title: The Attendence short fall this year
Post by: reeves4england on Monday, May 16, 2005, 19:32:50
But you do have to take note of the away fans.

The fact that we haven't played many local teams has severely affected attendances.

Not only are the away ticket sales down, but home fans are often encouraged to turn up if there is a derby game and we haven't had one recently. Hopefull next season Yeovil, Swansea and Gillingham atleast will be fruitful attendances, and hopefully we can take loads to their places!


Title: The Attendence short fall this year
Post by: yeo on Monday, May 16, 2005, 19:36:54
No you dont! it has home and away figures listed.Yes the away figures are down but the HOME figures are down by 1000+


Title: The Attendence short fall this year
Post by: yeo on Monday, May 16, 2005, 19:45:52
[/b]HOME FAN AVERAGE last season - 6946.13


HOME FAN AVERAGE this season - 5351.26


Title: The Attendence short fall this year
Post by: Reg Smeeton on Monday, May 16, 2005, 20:01:01
Quote from: "Yeovil Red"
[/b]HOME FAN AVERAGE last season - 6946.13


HOME FAN AVERAGE this season - 5351.26


 But those figures were skewed by the 24, 000 Wendys fans who infiltrated the home areas when we playeed them last season.


Title: The Attendence short fall this year
Post by: DiV on Monday, May 16, 2005, 22:58:54
Shows that success brings in more fans....

Well I hope this decrease was what the board were trying to achieve when they raised prices last season :roll:


Title: The Attendence short fall this year
Post by: Ben Wah Balls on Monday, May 16, 2005, 23:08:21
It's all very well comparing this season with last season but as last seasons average was a near 50% rise on the year before ticket prices clearly aren't the only factor and being in the playoffs for the second half of the season accounts for the majority of that difference.

If the trust want to do a proper comparison they should look at the average attendances of the last 4 years or so and base there calculations on that.

I agree that ticket prices are too high but looking at the accounts that have just been published the last time prices were put up there was a significant increase in ticket revenue from £1,101,351 to £1,247,830 despite a fall in the average attendance of around 500.

Although a decrease in ticket prices would please the fans and may bring some back it's not necessarily going to lead to higher revenues and we can't afford to assume that.

In assuming that the fall in attendances is basically all down to ticket prices the trust are being as unrealistic as the board, if there's any chance of the board taking them seriously they need to consider how much of the drop is down to ticket prices and how much is for other reasons.

I'd estimate without the other factors a £2 increase probably causes a drop of around 400 or so but there's also the bad PR having so many fans complaining of the prices and decreased revenues from merchandising to consider.

I'd like to see the trust do a much wider study into the ticket price issue to get a truer estimate of the costs and benefits of changing ticket prices and work out what's realistically our best option.


Title: The Attendence short fall this year
Post by: Piemonte on Tuesday, May 17, 2005, 08:59:59
fair points there BWB


Title: The Attendence short fall this year
Post by: le god cuervo on Tuesday, May 17, 2005, 09:13:00
yep, its not just to do with ticket prices, play-offs had a massive effect last season


Title: The Attendence short fall this year
Post by: Batch on Tuesday, May 17, 2005, 09:23:13
Quote from: "Yeovil Red"
[/b]HOME FAN AVERAGE last season - 6946.13


HOME FAN AVERAGE this season - 5351.26


Easy, less 'casual' (pay on the day) support since season ticket sales were up.

As said, when we are in the top 6 consistantly people will begrudgingly pay £21/£23. Flirt just outside/mid table then they won't, or rather they become more selective in choosing games. Unfortunately those people may conclude there are better ways to spend money on a Saturday and come less and less often.

The problem we have now is I can't see us matching last years season ticket sales which were inflated due to good insentives and a successful campaign. Couple that with a mediocre campaign, high match day ticket prices and the prospect of a completely new squad we'll be lucky to hold on to a 5351 average next year.

Now I realise this is gloomy, but I can't see anything else.


Title: The Attendence short fall this year
Post by: Reg Smeeton on Tuesday, May 17, 2005, 09:43:00
I'm sure you'll be right there Batch.......we do have the prospect of a few better away followings this year.....with Forest, Yeovil and Swansea.....would be good to lose H/pool and keep Wednesday.


Title: The Attendence short fall this year
Post by: adje on Tuesday, May 17, 2005, 13:04:35
The Bristol City debacle didn't help.


Title: The Attendence short fall this year
Post by: Reg Smeeton on Tuesday, May 17, 2005, 13:08:19
Nor the Sheff Wednesday....next season it may well be us getting the international call ups :shock:


Title: The Attendence short fall this year
Post by: DiV on Tuesday, May 17, 2005, 13:14:37
Quote from: "Reg Smeeton"
Nor the Sheff Wednesday....next season it may well be us getting the international call ups :shock:


for who exactly?!?!


Title: The Attendence short fall this year
Post by: yeo on Tuesday, May 17, 2005, 13:34:12
Get your heads out of the clouds,we've been in in or just off the play off all of this season bar the last 2-3 weeks.Yes the Bristol and Wednesday games had an effect but check out the attendence year for year on for all the other teams.

the attendence are down primarily because of prices

and partly because of King (who I support)

AND IF 1 MORE OF YOU THICK CUNTS SAYS ITS GOT SOMETHING TO DO WITH AWAY SUPPORT IM GOING TO GET SONIC YOUTH TO FUCKING BAN YOU!!!





































 :wink:


Title: The Attendence short fall this year
Post by: Reg Smeeton on Tuesday, May 17, 2005, 13:51:06
Quote from: "Yeovil Red"
Get your heads out of the clouds,we've been in in or just off the play off all of this season bar the last 2-3 weeks.Yes the Bristol and Wednesday games had an effect but check out the attendence year for year on for all the other teams.

the attendence are down primarily because of prices

and partly because of King (who I support)

AND IF 1 MORE OF YOU THICK CUNTS SAYS ITS GOT SOMETHING TO DO WITH AWAY SUPPORT IM GOING TO GET SONIC YOUTH TO FUCKING BAN YOU!!!





































 :wink:


 Even the most basic of observations would tell you that last season the TE was more or less full for a number of matches at 15....and this season it hasn't been also at 15......how come the missing hundreds were deterred?


Title: The Attendence short fall this year
Post by: Reg Smeeton on Tuesday, May 17, 2005, 13:55:14
Quote from: "DV85"
Quote from: "Reg Smeeton"
Nor the Sheff Wednesday....next season it may well be us getting the international call ups :shock:


for who exactly?!?!


 Fallon...... NZ
 Shakes....Trinidad and Tobago
 Roberts....Wales.


Title: The Attendence short fall this year
Post by: Ben Wah Balls on Tuesday, May 17, 2005, 14:51:00
Quote from: "Yeovil Red"
Get your heads out of the clouds,we've been in in or just off the play off all of this season bar the last 2-3 weeks.Yes the Bristol and Wednesday games had an effect but check out the attendence year for year on for all the other teams.

the attendence are down primarily because of prices

and partly because of King (who I support)

Sorry can't agree, if you look at last years attendances they rose sharply when we were established in the playoffs towards the end of the season, this year we've only been in the playoffs for one home game and only just. It makes a huge difference.

Two years ago attendances were even lower despite lower prices.


Title: The Attendence short fall this year
Post by: Barry Potter on Tuesday, May 17, 2005, 15:42:52
Quote from: "Ben Wah Balls"
Quote from: "Yeovil Red"
Get your heads out of the clouds,we've been in in or just off the play off all of this season bar the last 2-3 weeks.Yes the Bristol and Wednesday games had an effect but check out the attendence year for year on for all the other teams.

the attendence are down primarily because of prices

and partly because of King (who I support)

Sorry can't agree, if you look at last years attendances they rose sharply when we were established in the playoffs towards the end of the season, this year we've only been in the playoffs for one home game and only just. It makes a huge difference.


Ignoring the 2nd half of the season, the trust also did a comparison earlier on in the season and the general trend was that gates were down by a significant amount (around a 1000) in like for like games on the early months of the previous season. Now as you kept telling us every week we were doing pretty much identically in the league as the season before yet the gates were way down.   :roll:


Title: The Attendence short fall this year
Post by: DiV on Tuesday, May 17, 2005, 15:45:16
Quote from: "Reg Smeeton"
Quote from: "DV85"
Quote from: "Reg Smeeton"
Nor the Sheff Wednesday....next season it may well be us getting the international call ups :shock:


for who exactly?!?!


 Fallon...... NZ
 Shakes....Trinidad and Tobago
 Roberts....Wales.


One them doesnt even play for us yet...

Roberts is shit and isnt even good enough for Wales!!!


Title: The Attendence short fall this year
Post by: Reg Smeeton on Tuesday, May 17, 2005, 15:54:42
Roberts has been in the Welsh squad before....they're not exactly over endowed with talent....a return to form and he will be back in the squad.

 Shakes more or less looks a done deal.


Title: The Attendence short fall this year
Post by: Ben Wah Balls on Tuesday, May 17, 2005, 18:22:44
Quote from: "Barry Potter"
Quote from: "Ben Wah Balls"
Quote from: "Yeovil Red"
Get your heads out of the clouds,we've been in in or just off the play off all of this season bar the last 2-3 weeks.Yes the Bristol and Wednesday games had an effect but check out the attendence year for year on for all the other teams.

the attendence are down primarily because of prices

and partly because of King (who I support)

Sorry can't agree, if you look at last years attendances they rose sharply when we were established in the playoffs towards the end of the season, this year we've only been in the playoffs for one home game and only just. It makes a huge difference.


Ignoring the 2nd half of the season, the trust also did a comparison earlier on in the season and the general trend was that gates were down by a significant amount (around a 1000) in like for like games on the early months of the previous season. Now as you kept telling us every week we were doing pretty much identically in the league as the season before yet the gates were way down.   :roll:

But we were also in the playoffs at the start of last season and when we dropped out gates did drop 5,300 port vale, 5,600 wycombe, compared with 6,700 and 6,300 for the games at the same stage this year, then qpr and plymouth brought a lot of fans and were big games as they were in the top two so that helped to keep the average up as well as brighton at new year  but it was only in 2004 when gates never dropped below 6,000 as we went on an exceptional run and were playing good football.

Yes the ticket prices are a factor but they are definitely not the main factor.


Title: The Attendence short fall this year
Post by: DMR on Tuesday, May 17, 2005, 18:26:48
I don't think the ticket prices made too much difference it's just another moan for the stayaway's to use


Title: The Attendence short fall this year
Post by: yeo on Tuesday, May 17, 2005, 20:25:04
I decided to look through the attendences for the last 5 years to prove Ben wah wrong.Unfortunately they actually seem to have proved him right.

 2004-2005 Finished 12th (current ticket price)

Blackpool        5526
Peterborough 5777
Port Vale        4724
Brentford        6875
Bristol City      6977

 2003-2004 Finished 5th(current ticket prices)

Blackpool        6219
Peterborough 6767
Port Vale        5313
Brentford        7649
Bristol City      14540

 2002-2003 Finished 10th(before price rise)

Blackpool        4787
Peterborough 4709
Port Vale        5529
Brentford        6045
Bristol City      8629

 2001-2002 Finished 13th

Blackpool        5085
Peterborough 7934
Port Vale        5867
Brentford        5519
Bristol City      7273

2000-2001 Finished 20th

Blackpool        n/a
Peterborough 8145
Port Vale        5175
Brentford        n/a
Bristol City      10031

The attendences obviously depend on what day and how important the game is i.e the Peterborough 8145 in 2001 and the City 14540( a lovely Sunny Sunday wasnt it?)

The best comparson to this season I guess would be the 2002-2003 season  and the attendences are lower then than they are this year in most cases .It seems to average out in general over all years with last year being the best attended from them all.The only conclusion you can take from this is that league position and how well we are doing IS the main factor in attendences and that I WAS WRONG AND BEN WAS RIGHT


Title: The Attendence short fall this year
Post by: yeo on Wednesday, May 18, 2005, 01:38:31
More figures to back up Ben-

04/05  overall attendence 127235  league position 12th not many local teams

03/04 overall attendence 169713 league position 5th  Plymouth/Qpr/Bristol City/Bournemouth/Luton/Brentford

02/03 overall attendence 125716 league position 10th Bristol city/Qpr/cardiff/plymouth/luton/brentford/cheltenham

01/02 overall attendence 146318 league position 13th reading /cardiff/bristol city/qpr/bournemouth

00/01 overall attendence 142106 league position 20th Oxfor/bristol rovers/brentford/bristol city/bournemouth/reading/milwall


Title: The Attendence short fall this year
Post by: Ben Wah Balls on Wednesday, May 18, 2005, 01:43:05
:D  I knew it.

BTW, I'm not just disagreeing for the sake of it or to defend the board, I don't think the board made the right choice putting up the ticket prices last year and their pricing policies do need to change. I just don't think it's a good idea to assume that decreasing the ticket prices alone will lead to much higher attendances/revenues.

It's a complex issue and I don't think theres really an answer that's going to please everyone and be best for the club. Though it'd be great if someone found one.


Title: The Attendence short fall this year
Post by: yeo on Wednesday, May 18, 2005, 01:45:24
I think you're right.


Title: The Attendence short fall this year
Post by: Dazzza on Wednesday, May 18, 2005, 01:48:29
Think you have to take into account pre-season for each of those years.  They all varied from wildly optomistic times to being down in the doldrums.

Take last summer.  Euro's hangover, Mooney and Devlin departed not to be replaced, stadium fiasco and to cap it all off the Bradley Orr transfer blocked.

In comparison the summer before saw a lot of new faces, several high profile moves and a genuine optomisim about the place.

02/03 King's first full season back and administration.

01/02 Roy "the gent" Evans and hope of a fresh start.

00/01 Bradey's promise of major cash and new stadium.

Not major factors I admit but all play a part in if the casual support are going to follow the club over the coming season or be indifferent.

Results will always play the major part but unless we see some success next season I think the figures are going to start reflecting much more of a comparable downturn.


Title: The Attendence short fall this year
Post by: yeo on Wednesday, May 18, 2005, 01:57:01
Surely that would level off over the season though.

There are many many other factors to take into account like how well your opponents are doing when they play you.

At the end of the day it does prove that 03/04 the attendence was considerably up from past seasons and indeed this one so ticket price is less of a factor than it seems.