Thetownend.com

RIP

So let me get this right....

She was 12 years old, and her Grandmother is 46 years old? And the 46 year old grandmother has a 37 year old boyfriend with 'previous'. There's no way to say this without sounding heartless, but what a chavtastic life she was bought into, poor girl.

Can't help but think the Nan and BF aren't the only guilty ones in this either.

It's such an awful situation, but when I saw the family holding a candlelight vigil a couple of days ago I couldn't help but cringe at the state of some of them.

The whole thing is very odd.  Her body has been found in the grandmother's house, which has supposedly been searched twice.  Also, how could the grandmother not know her body was in the house?

I doubt we'll ever know what really happened, because he'll top himself before he gets found.

Get Jeremy Kyle in to interview the family, he'll find out the truth.

It's sad, but a suspected murder of a child is normally someone who 'knows' the victim. Sad state of affairs. How can anyone murder a child?

The grandmother knew, there's no escaping that. Yet she lied to protect her boyfriend whom clearly did the dead.

Or..... I have an even more sinister thought that might have led to the grandmother doing it through a jealous rage. (I don't think I need elaborate).

It's inconceivable to me how people can do such things to each other.

Sadly the tragic news is not surprising ...particularly as the step-grandad's story didn't add up from the start...

What I don't get is: How.....when....why....how.....at what point.....

I just don't get it.

The nan's boyfriend has been arrested now.

The boyfriend is an odd looking man!

Only the perpetrator(s) will ever fully know.

I don't think it's right to even begin to speculate. 

Think something like 60% is a good ballpark figure for a victim knowing their murderer.

The story on the BBC website gave the impression the body had been moved, which would explain them not finding it before.

You're right.

And nobody should be 'hung' before the trial.

But, I suspect the grandmother.

5 mins from where I live.

Very sad and shocking, although some serious questions need to be asked of the police if the body was there the whole time.

Whoever carried out this disgusting act, be it the grandmother, the grandmothers boyfriend or some other sick minded fucking weirdo needs to be brought to justice quickly, tried in a court of law and then if found guilty and only if, hung from the nearest fucking lampost.

Let the sick fucker swing. We are far too soft on the sort of scum who did this and before all the fucking do gooders on here start banging on about human rights and such shit, just fuck off as the world really does not need scum like this breathing the same air as decent law abiding human beings.

Why are you a 'do gooder' if you don't happen to believe capital punishment is an appropriate punishment?

What would you prefer then, waste a load of tax payers money trying to rehabilitate them or just be done with it and send them on a skiing holiday?

It's because what the papers say, innit.

And as if to prove my point.

Perfect timing

Stop it with the moral outrage

Such matter deserve a considered debate

You're right.
The electric chair would work just as well.

 :wink:

Yes, because I'm not in favour of killing murderers I believe they should be sent on skiing holidays. S'pose that answers my do gooder question.

Arrested after being found in the house next door to the body. Police are really not doing too well.

can i go skiing if i haven't killed anyone?

What happens if you kill someone whilst you're on a skiing holiday?

hide the body in the snow, no one will know until spring

Then piss on the snow. Everyone knows not to touch yellow snow

Janaage, if you'd like we can put a manual together?

NO SKI FOR YOU

 :Ride On Fatbury's Lovestick:

Random, yet welcome.

BBC news are saying the nans house was searched four times including using sniffer dogs after Tia spent the Thursday evening alone with her nans boyfriend. From an outsiders point of view this tragic case is so much like we've seen to many times before.

[url width=295 height=222]http://i.imgur.com/vx3CG.jpg[/url]

........

And the boyfriend was found next door, and the neighhbours didn't notice anybody hiding in their house or garden for a week?

Thats where I'm thinking the girls body was moved to and from as I can't see how the police and sniffer dogs missed not finding anything four times.

I agree, I think we need capital punishment again in this country.

Nope, nope nope. Wrong wrong wrong.

Capital punishment is the most barbaric thing a state can do.

I haven't really got a problem with capital punishment in theory. The problem is when there's a miscarriage of justice and an innocent person is executed, which has happened before.
Why can't all convicted murderers be put on an island somewhere and left to fend for themselves, like that film with Ray Liotta? The Isle of Wight would be perfect for this, there's fuck all there, apart from Blackgang Chine, which is shit.

 

I would rather kill some of the fuckers than pay £50k or whatever it is a year to keep them in the nick.

The fact that capital punishment doesn't work is the most compelling argument against it.

I don't agree with haging but why do you say it does not work lucien?

They should be used as human guinea pigs for testing medicines on. No more animal cruelty and they are giving something back to society.

History teaches us that its not that effective as a deterrent, and the humanity of judges and juries can hinder the passing of correct verdicts if the resultant punishment is death. The reason this country started moving away from the Bloody Code in the 1800's was because of these two reasons and I think it would be a huge step backwards if we were to undo what we have done since. I don't necessarily think that how we deal with murderers etc. is perfect, but i'm not entirely sure what we could do different.

I live on the estate where all this happened, if the guy was still in the area he wouldnt have lasted long. Lots of groups of lads in cars all tooled up driving round last night ready to smash the fuck out of him. This incident will make or break the estate I reckon, its got a bit of a bad reputation anyway and shit like this doesnt help.

Yeah, to show it's wrong to kill you go and kill someone.

Brilliant.

Gutted

The people on the news from the estate looked like extras for the Jeremy Kyle show. Most of them should have been sterilised at birth.

So what if it's not a deterrent ?

Still seems the right way to go for anyone guilty of murdering kids - let the fuckers die - they are no good to anyone or anything and to me don't deserve to live

They lose that right as soon as they kill an innocent child in my book

For me its to be used as a punishment and not a deterrent.

Why should anyone who is convicted of raping and murdering a child live to see another dawn?

I oppose the death penalty for many reasons but the main one is I don't want the state to have the power to murder me for something I never did.

Besides the argument for or against is largely immaterial as re-introducing it is a complete non-starter whilst we remain in the EU.

How can death be a punishment? They're dead.

Ian huntley and Ian brady both want to die, why give them what they want?

2 more arreted including a 46 yr old female.

Isnt that the gran?

Surely the grans older than 46!

No, she isn't!

It's called "Capital Punishment'

I don't really know how to answer it any more susinctly. Death under some laws is the ultimate punishment.

Because the earth is better of without them but if you'd rather have these type of offenders walking the streets after their sentence then they can live in yours and not mine.

I would prefer my taxes were spent on other things other than a child rapists breakfast and cigarette allowances.

I couldn't give a flying one what it's called.

If they're dead, how are they being punished? Once dead, people have no feelings, no emotions. They feel no pain or suffering.

Keep them alive and make then suffer. That's punishment, not death.

You could argue that they don't have any feelings or emotions anyway to do the crime. Your point also assumes that prison is indeed a punishment and that they suffer.

They'll never walk the streets. Both's their lives are miserable and i'm glad about that

Of course they have emotions and feelings, they have emotions and feelings for their own well being.

And do you think kiddy killers would have it easy in prison? They'd be spending the rest of their lives in special segments and live every day knowing there's inmates that would severely hurt them if they could.

But oh no, let's give them the easy way out and kill them.

What a load of crap. I'm no expert, but I'd imagine the vast majority of murders in this country are committed by people who can't control their emotions, rather than people who have none.

Ian Brady is held under the Mental Health act and will never be released and Huntley whilst serving a minimum tariff could still be released.

Roy Whiting was convicted of sexually assaulting a child, was subsequently released and then killed Sarah Payne.

I see little point in keeping these people alive and whether they want it or not is irrelevant for me
if they want to top themselves they will.

Think using their bodies for medical research is better than putting them to death personally.

What about those who get wrongly convicted? history shows there have been plenty of people sentenced to death or jailed when innocent

That is the only thing I have against capital punishment. To be honest its quite a big thing, reason enough not to bring it back.

Instead I say put them in a 6x4 cell and leave them there for the rest of their lives. If the state gets it wrong, massive compensation..

Your argument of using their bodies for medical research is then pointless when you then argue that they could actually be innocent.

It's years since I looked into this but death row has released something like 120 odd people in 30 years. With DNA advances there will be less wrongful convictions in the years to come but I see your point of innocence etc and is the biggest argument against CP.

It's not pointless as the two people i mentioned are 100% guilty.
My second point is a seperate issue.

The irony is that Huntley is not a good argument for the death penalty. The death penalty has the unintended consequence of a higher burden of proof among juries who are reluctant to convict.

Huntley was convicted solely on circumstantial evidence - what exactly happened in his house has never been fully established. So it is likely, even probable, that the Jury could have accepted a manslaughter plea instead, knowing that otherwise they would have to make the decision of sending a man to his death based on a lack of evidence.

The average term for manslaughter is six years, so Huntley would have long been free by now.

Says who, the courts? The same courts that you say get it wrong sometimes.

It's clear they didn't have it wrong in those two cases.
They are guilty and you'd have them killed. I personally don't give a shit either way to be honest but prefer the mdical research route as i keep saying. If they died from that, at least it might go someway to cancer cures etc.

In some states in the US the jury decides the decision of the case and the judge passes sentence, death or not and removes that burden from the jury. Often, other factors such as aggravating circumstances aren't stated in court to prevent the jury knowing that they are sentencing a man to death if found guilty.

Finding someone guilty at the first trial is ony the start of the process, people wait around 15-20 years on average on death row before death after appeal and re-trials.

Exactly, which negates the 'hanging is cheaper' argument.

Read somewhere that it actually costs more money to execute someone due to all the costs involved in appeals. That's the US though, i'm this isn't the case in Saudi Arabia and the like.

That's the issue though, not enough of them do suffer. We're too soft on convicted murderers because of their human rights, so they end up with a reasonably cushdy little life in prison and being kept out of harms way in solita+
ry confinement when necessary for their own safety.  In the majority of cases they can also rebuild their lives (if they choose to) when they're released.

As far as I'm concerned you should lose your human rights when you make the decision to take someone elses life and it's time a life sentence meant exatly that rather than 17 or 18 years, which seems to be a common tarriff.

Personally I'm in the pro capital punishment camp, particularly in cases against children.  As already pointed out miscarriages of justice are much rarer now than they used to be due to the advances of DNA technology etc.

You could just send them all into space and try and set up a colony on the moon or something. If they die it's no biggie.

no you wouldn't-not really

Why waste money on keeping them alive?

I mean he wouldnt want to kill anyone

No it doesnt Huntley will be in prison for 30 years minimum.

Prisoners now have numerous case and sentence appeals for the first years anyway so that cost remains whether you have CP or not.

If they raped and murdered my child it would be a pleasure and I think the state should do that act on behalf of all victims families.

Presumably then you'll find it a pleasure to be hanged for something you didn't do and for you to see your grief sicken parents to visit you just before you swing...?

If human rights are not applied universally then they are not human rights. They are 'good human' rights. And then you have to find a universally acceptable definition of what makes somebody good enough to have those rights.

There's a huge debate in legal cricles now about so-called human rights not applying to certain groups, such as the disabled and children, thereby implying that they are somehow subhuman. Interesting stuff.

It's reminded me of that woman who went missing in Bristol, the Police arrested the landlord and then the press pronounced him guilty and performed a total character assassination. Except it wasn't him. Even if it was him you have to wonder if he'd ever have received a fair trial given the press coverage and as a result, if they'd have been able to get a guilty conviction without an admission.

So it will be interesting to see how the press behave this time. Have a feeling it will be pretty much the same.

Not saying anyone is innocent (or guilty) but having the press pronounce them as guilty before they're convicted isn't good.

Granted there are loads of immigrants and benefit thieves but not all of us are like that. I didn't have a choice but to move there, when a housing association offers you a property you can't turn it down as you will go back to the bottom of the list. And I live in the nice end with all the coffin dodgers

No but then I don't agree with innocent people being hanged, kind of defeats the objective.

Like a new Australia?

I see what you did there and that's a fair point.

So the grandmother's boyfriend has been charged, but the grandmother has been bailed.  I still can't see how she knew nothing and would be surprised if the rest of the family didn't think the same.  I wonder where she'll go, can't see her being able to go anywhere near that estate?

Shes goe looting at poundland

My mrs sky+'d the programme about Holly Wells parents 10 years after the Soham murders.
As this thread and that got my interest i googled Ian Huntley. There are theories out there that he was set up and is innocent. The main theory being that a US serviceman killed them. Pretty haunting stuff and definately food for thought

But he admitted they both died infront of him 'by accident'

To be released on bail simply means that investigations are continuing, and that the person is not considered to be a risk to anyone in the meantime.  If she skips bail, of course, then that becomes more serious.
Will not make for an easy life for the lady in question however because, regardless of the truth, she will face the revulsion of the people around her - not just for the crime, but for the relationship with her boyfriend.  Public opinion, ably fed by the tabloids hath no control.

I watched that programme and have since read the same theory. Bit weird that certain witnesses weren't used etc.

Interesting read...

I think Huntley did it but the theories are interesting to read.

You only have to look at this page to realise capital punishment doesn't work.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentional_homicide_rate

Yes, but think of the savings!
(Which seems to be the main thrust of some peoples argument).

sorry if its been discussed already, but why the massive delay on announcing it is actually Tia's body that has be discovered. (even though we all know it is)

My theory is that they were both residents of the house where she was allegedly killed.
IF the body was hidden in the attic and IF those attics didn't have dividing walls AND she was hidden in the neighbours portion the Police would be criticised if they weren't seen to be covering all possibilities (albeit very slim) that the grandmother was aware of (or party to) the murder and the neighbour allowed him to put her body in his part of the attic... hence why they were arrested... It may seem OTT but defence barristers are very good at finding fault with poor investigations to get their clients off

Got to be standard practice to arrest somebody on suspicion of murder if a body has been found in their house hasn't it?

It certainly ticks the 'suspicion' box!

:)

Plus presumably it gives the police access to certain procedures during questioning that they can't do unless the suspect is arrested.

Perhaps on of the more dodgy TEFers will know.

But then you could say, 'lets not pay for old people/hospital treatments etc they all cost money lets kill them off, we'll be better off, as we'll save money.' Where do you draw the line?

For me a life sentance you should die in prison, the only things you should have are clean water, clothes and basic sanitation and food. That is it.

One of the main ones it allows Plod to search your house without a warrant

Yes, but they're not allowed to take cricket bats.

If they moon became a new prison colony, would it become shortened just like Oz was?

As in....  Moo?