Let's Get Political!

[jayohaitchenn]

I'm really not so sure.

Agreed. Clearly, for some, winning takes precedence over everything else. And that includes honesty and integrity.

[RedRag]

Ah our fearless crusading impartial media...

https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1200328947420008448.html

A very interesting angle on the print media by a junior doctor.

I read some of that doctor's other tweets and, being more pro Remain than pro any particular party, I was interested in his perspective on how a US trade deal will likely operate on the NHS.

We all know (even those who deny it) that the NHS will be paying more for drugs post US trade deal.

Believe me, not Johnson ffs, that parts (the lucrative, easy parts) of the NHS will be "for sale" and there will be cases where the NHS and local authorities are sued by disappointed US health service suppliers.  UK taxpayers to cough up.

The UK will not be in any position to walk away from a US trade deal inc. US demands for Pharma and healthcare etc.  It will go through and we will be lied to again.  Obviously.

[RedRag]

(Sort of) on the topic of journalism and politics, I thought this a fascinating and depressing piece from George Monbiot - https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/dec/10/break-embargo-expose-press-lies-labour

the tl;dr is that he's breaking an embargo to disclose that IPSO (press complaints) have found against the Daily Mail but aren't allowing that to be published until after the election. The particular case in question is interesting, but the key part for me is this: "The rewards for political lying are massive: they include winning referendums and elections. The penalties are either nonexistent or tiny."

And that's the rub. You basically have to be stupid, or stupidly honourable, to not lie and misrepresent your opponents in politics under the current systems. It's not even a just-the-right-wing thing, although the print press being RW dominant means they're a whole lot more effective, plenty of Corbynite online press have got the hang of this.

Just about everyone will say we want truth and honest from our politicians and journalists, whatever our political position, but the incentives seem to be stacked so far the other way that I can't really say I'm surprised by any individuals wanting to be the first to get a story out or the most RTs, rather than really getting to the true story.

All a bit depressing really.

It's as if political debate based on differing interpretations of facts is now pointless.  It's simply about lying, lying and lying again and more effectively and widely than the opposition.

It may be your job to win referenda and elections but the ultimate responsibility has to "lie" with the people who accept being lied to and who continue to support the liars.

You are correctly fair and objective, in pointing out that there is lying on all sides.  But "fair" and "objective" have become  as valuable as the Venezuelan peso. 

[The Artist Formerly Known as Audrey]

Now, I’m reading that that pic of the lad on the floor at Leeds Hospital was ‘staged’ by his mother who is a Labour activist.

Puts into sharp focus all the truths, half-truths and downright lies people are being asked to fathom out for themselves.

Most people end up believing what they want to believe - irrespective of the truth.

[Ardiles]

Now, I’m reading that that pic of the lad on the floor at Leeds Hospital was ‘staged’ by his mother who is a Labour activist.

Puts into sharp focus all the truths, half-truths and downright lies people are being asked to fathom out for themselves.

Most people end up believing what they want to believe - irrespective of the truth.

You were reading a fake story.

https://www.theguardian.com/media/2019/dec/10/woman-says-account-hacked-to-post-fake-story-about-hospital-boy

[Arriba]

Reminds me of when they said Corbyn sitting on a train floor was staged. Lies of course...

[pauld]

Now, I’m reading that that pic of the lad on the floor at Leeds Hospital was ‘staged’ by his mother who is a Labour activist.

That's just outright lies. See my post from earlier (quoted below to save you scrolling back through several pages)

The fact that the Tories seek to respond to this story not by doing everything they can to put things right, but by smearing the Mum with lies perpetrated by spambots shows the depths to which they've sunk

Yes, it's from the CCHQ spambots on Twitter. Apparently dozens of people not only have the same friend at "Leeds Hospital" (it's Leeds General Infirmary which a "good friend" would know), but also chose to post about it on Twitter at the same time using exactly the same words. Surprised you fell for that

[horlock07]

Now, I’m reading that that pic of the lad on the floor at Leeds Hospital was ‘staged’ by his mother who is a Labour activist.

Puts into sharp focus all the truths, half-truths and downright lies people are being asked to fathom out for themselves.

Most people end up believing what they want to believe - irrespective of the truth.

And before you start, nobody was punched by a Labour activist either!

[Ardiles]

Spare a thought for Jonathan Ashworth.  Until today, he probably had a shot at replacing Corbyn after the election.  Not any more.

Labour's ineptitude - right from the top down - has been astonishing this election.  If/when the Tories win their 4th successive term, they'll need to take a long, hard look at themselves and ask how they allowed it to happen.  If you can't beat a shower like this after a decade in office, you might as well pack up & go home for good.

[The Artist Formerly Known as Audrey]

You were reading a fake story.

https://www.theguardian.com/media/2019/dec/10/woman-says-account-hacked-to-post-fake-story-about-hospital-boy

But that’s my point. It doesn’t really matter whether it was staged or not people will believe whichever side of the story they want to.

You only have to listen to the ‘people in the street’ when asked for an opinion on even the least testing political question. The universal answer is ‘I don’t really know’. People are, generally, too stupid to differentiate between political parties which is why they are swayed by even the most blatant lies.

Why is it that political advertisements are not subject to the same rules as conventional, consumer advertisements?

The truth-in-advertising rule requires advertisers to be honest about their products or services. Online advertising and marketing may not include deception or false claims about what the product or service can provide. This rule also requires that the company advertising the product or service can prove the claims it makes about the product or service. Finally, under this rule, the advertisement or marketing effort cannot be unfair.

[Nemo]

Spare a thought for Jonathan Ashworth.  Until today, he probably had a shot at replacing Corbyn after the election.  Not any more.

I actually feel quite bad for Ashworth - if he really has been friends with the guy for a while and then he's gone and leaked a private chat to Guido then that is spectacularly cunty.

[Flashheart]

That's just outright lies. See my post from earlier (quoted below to save you scrolling back through several pages)

The fact that the Tories seek to respond to this story not by doing everything they can to put things right, but by smearing the Mum with lies perpetrated by spambots shows the depths to which they've sunk

According to a sleuth on twitter, the son of the woman who's account it originated from is friends with Hancock on facebook. (The woman is now claiming her account was hacked).

Make of that what you will. It might be false, or it might be true, and it doesn't necessarily mean a thing if it is true. (Although it would be quite a coincidence).

[Saxondale]

What the picture that was confirmed by the hospital?  

The one that a stream of bots have waged a war against after sending johnson out to talk about it failed.  And sending Hancock failed despite making up a story about an army of paid labour activists ending with a tory being punched was proved not to be the dead cat to get out of it.  Reported as fact then inconvenient stuff like the truth and video of the event proved to be wrong.

But its ok as the big players in the media have repeated it after being told by tory sources it had happened giving it a lovely sheen of veracity.  Obviously it would be stupid to actually check before sending stuff out.  I mean I rewrite stuff several times before sending it, major journalists don't feel they need to.

The one the nurse who was not a nurse has said was not true and she's been hacked?

'I was hacked. I am not a nurse and I certainly don’t know anyone in Leeds,” the woman told the Guardian. “I’ve had to delete everything as I have had death threats to myself and my children.”

The depths that are being plumbed in this election is truly horrific.  And in these last 2 days nothing can be held to account as their isn't time, so carte blanche for the lies, smears and libel chaps.  If its proved that we've been lying grasping venal cunts after the election it doesnt matter, we'll get a slap on the wrist and a fine but its worth it, we can brazen it out.

This is an interesting thread about the trolls and the bots kicking in

https://twitter.com/marcowenjones/status/1204183081009262592

But even then Ive no idea if any of it is true or right.  It appeals to my opinions but I don't know whats truth anymore.  Lets face it thats been the whole point of social media war on reality.

It's so so depressing.  Im fairly sure that at some point people sought positions in government to help people and improve society.  Thats all gone.  Lets just keep pumping the world for our own means until it disappears into nothingness.  We wont be alive to see it.

Im off for a little cry for a couple of days.

[Reg Smeeton]

What the picture that was confirmed by the hospital?  

The one that a stream of bots have waged a war against after sending johnson out to talk about it failed.  And sending Hancock failed despite making up a story about an army of paid labour activists ending with a tory being punched was proved not to be the dead cat to get out of it.  Reported as fact then inconvenient stuff like the truth and video of the event proved to be wrong.

But its ok as the big players in the media have repeated it after being told by tory sources it had happened giving it a lovely sheen of veracity.  Obviously it would be stupid to actually check before sending stuff out.  I mean I rewrite stuff several times before sending it, major journalists don't feel they need to.

The one the nurse who was not a nurse has said was not true and she's been hacked?

'I was hacked. I am not a nurse and I certainly don’t know anyone in Leeds,” the woman told the Guardian. “I’ve had to delete everything as I have had death threats to myself and my children.”

The depths that are being plumbed in this election is truly horrific.  And in these last 2 days nothing can be held to account as their isn't time, so carte blanche for the lies, smears and libel chaps.  If its proved that we've been lying grasping venal cunts after the election it doesnt matter, we'll get a slap on the wrist and a fine but its worth it, we can brazen it out.

This is an interesting thread about the trolls and the bots kicking in

https://twitter.com/marcowenjones/status/1204183081009262592

But even then Ive no idea if any of it is true or right.  It appeals to my opinions but I don't know whats truth anymore.  Lets face it thats been the whole point of social media war on reality.

It's so so depressing.  Im fairly sure that at some point people sought positions in government to help people and improve society.  Thats all gone.  Lets just keep pumping the world for our own means until it disappears into nothingness.  We wont be alive to see it.

Im off for a little cry for a couple of days.

The worry is that by undermining the democratic process, the Tories are undermining that which holds the UK together. If you can't fight crypto fascist methods at the ballot box, fairly, then you're left with little alternative but to look at other methods.

[horlock07]